Poetry and me
grizzellda
"didn't like poetry in general." Paraphrased, perhaps, but that is the gist.
Let me set the record straight. I *do* like some poetry. Ginsberg, Frost,
Burns, and Whitman to name a few. Now, when I say I don't like poetry in
general, I guess I am referring to the stuff I don't like. It seems that
there is so much more crap out there than non-crap that I lump it all
together and dismiss it. That is wrong, I know. Through self-reflection I
have seen the error of my ways. Perhaps, I'm missing some essential piece of
the whole poetry puzzle that will allow me to read it and say, "Ah,
brilliant." It's like that poem I posted, I read it as a joke to a dear
friend, laughing at how bad it was. They said to me, "But it is good." So,
what is that piece I am missing?
grizzellda
--
Do not proffer sympathy to the mentally ill; it is a bottomless pit. Tell
them firmly, "I am not paid to listen to this drivel -- you are a terminal
fool!" Otherwise, they make you as crazy as they are.
From "Words of Advice for Young People" by William S. Burroughs
Jabelson1
>
>Okay, I made a grave error a while back. I had the audacity to say that I
>"didn't like poetry in general."
That's crazy talk! (I don't like it much, either...)
Jerv
grizzellda <grizz...@home.com> wrote in message
news:WJeG5.7684$f5.3...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com...
> --
> Do not proffer sympathy to the mentally ill; it is a bottomless pit. Tell
> them firmly, "I am not paid to listen to this drivel -- you are a terminal
> fool!" Otherwise, they make you as crazy as they are.
> From "Words of Advice for Young People" by William S. Burroughs
Don't know about "terminal", seeing as how Burroughs himself was sort of
checking in and out of his "sanity" all the time like it was a cheap hotel,
but it's good advice on the whole.
Don't do acid, Stinky Girl.
-- Jerv http://daddio45.tripod.com/index-1.html
>
>
>
grizzellda
"Jerv" <dadd...@yifan.net> wrote in message
news:S3mG5.38772$F65.2...@nntp2.onemain.com...
I have the opposite advice for you dear Jervy-pooh. DO acid! Pleeeease.
The mind expanding properties will do you a world of good. Either that or
you will go insane and be commited (temporarily at least), in which case the
down time will do you good. Please, let go of that stupid joke. I made a
subtle attempt at humor by mentioning that I might be tempted to do acid
before reading your post. I haven't done any drugs 'cept nicotene and
caffeine for years and I am trying to quit the nicotene. SO, just get off
it. Clear up another bit, No, I have not read Sexual Personae... nor is it
on my list of things to run out and do. I may get around to it, eventually.
Priorities, don't you know. Yes, I have read Dorothy Parker. I will offer no
further comment there, seeing that you seem to fly off the handle at any
opinion that doesn't agree with yours.
Now, if you aren't up to a really long acid trip, try mushrooms. Remember
not to take too much, though. Don't want you heaving on those nice white
shoes of yours. Also, the key to the whole trip is what you're doing when
you're coming on to the acid/mushrooms. I made the mistake of reading The
Darknight Series while coming onto some pretty strong acid, once. Not a bad
trip, but there were some moments... Oh, well. I waste precious bandwidth
trying to reason with you. I can't help it. You're fun to mess with. You are
still one of my favorites just because of that way your waddle shakes when
you get all mad.
grizzellda
--
"How perfectly goddamned delightful it all is, to be sure." (Charles Crumb)
Ejucaided Redneck
Normally this is the sort of post I don't respond to at all, but the
writing workshop I facilitate at the local yoo decided to move toward
poetry this week, and in an effort to keep up with the people I'm
supposed to be leading, I've devoted considerable time over a few days
reading and thinking about poetry
So...
When people say "I don't like poetry," in most cases they're saying "I
don't like most of what's been presented to me as ‘poetry.'" And that
makes perfect sense. Go into a bookstore, whether it's one of the too
rapidly disappearing neighborhood shops or one of the chains, and how
many of the volumes there will interest you enough that you'll recall
their authors' names, or want to turn toward them again? Bet it's close
to the ratio of poems which stick to your memory, compared to the
entirety of whatever you've read.
Maybe higher, because there are even more bad poets than bad writers.
Even in a time
When everyone has a computer,
It's still so much easier,
the business of breaking
Bland prose into short sentences
And calling it
"Poetry,"
Easier than the awful drudgery
Of writing fifteen or twenty
Pages
Of bad prose.
> Okay, I made a grave error a while back. I had the audacity to say that I
> "didn't like poetry in general."
I don't either, though I've got my own list of poets whose books I keep
around. James Dickey (even loonier than Salinger, if _his_ kids memoir
is to be believed) and Jim Harrison (whom I still think is America's
best kept literary secret) are on it with a slew of others, from two or
three different centuries.
> So, what is that piece I am missing?
I've for years wanted to ask the same question of a great clot of
editors. It's possible for a poet to build a career on being published
in the "New Yorker" at a young age. I knew one man who did it, Everett
Something-or-Other in New Orleans, who kept himself employed on that
slim resumé entry, until he managed to drink himself to death, a long
way from being fifty years old... Except most of what appears as
"poetry" in the "New Yorker" is entirely incomprehensible to me and most
of the people I know.
I ain't got a clue what makes "good" poetry, other than the natural
tendency to assume "If I like it, it's good."
Sometimes I think it's the same nonsensical mindset that infests the art
community.
Some years ago the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis spent enough money
to buy a working farm to obtain an enormous piece of canvas with two
white stripes painted on it. The stripes were of a slightly different
tone and were separated by a thin black line. I forget who did it,
though it was a "brand name" artist.
Too many poetry "editors" and "critics" are the spiritual cousins of
whomever wrote a check for that painting.
--
http://rlsloan.netbasix.com/
Stories, poetry, "Notes From the Top of the Hill,"
and some funny stuff.
Listen to MP3 "notes" at
http://www.morehead-st.edu/units/wmky/wmky_reports.htm
Audio cassettes at http://www.countrytraditions.com/
(Click on "Appalachian Stories")
nancy
long time! How ya been? Last time i saw you, you were posting
in alt.writing and wrote this:
>I ain't got a clue what makes "good" poetry, other than the
>natural tendency to assume "If I like it, it's good."
>
>Sometimes I think it's the same nonsensical mindset that infests
>the art community.
>
agree.
i, like you, have no clue what it is that makes poetry
supposedly "good" ... i suspect an awful lot of "good"
poetry is considered so by those who wish to be seen as
"cultured" and "in the know" and "elite".
i could be wrong.
the spousal unit and i, along with our next-door neighbors,
subscribe to a decent local theatre group. 5-6 shows a
year, of high calibre, some artsy, some funky, some new
and daring, some old and guaranteed money-making (this
year's money-maker is G&S's HMS Pinafore). the opening
show this season was titled "Art".
it was a play about friendship. it focused on the friendship
of three men, one of whom purchases a 5' x 4' canvas which
is white. it has, if you look carefully at it, a series of
white diagonal stripes across it. white on white. this
man buys it because it is "Art", by a well-known artist, and
he is seen by his cultured buddies as being someone
fortunate for possessing the $40,000 piece. his best friend,
however, despises the piece and despises his friend for
purchasing it. the third friend is wishy-washy on the subject,
and works hard to try to appease the other two and heal
their hurting relationship.
funny thing is, i rather liked that white-on-white painting.
the "artist" mentioned was fictional. it didn't matter to
me. the "art community" that lauded it was fictional
as well, in this case. i liked it because of what i could
see in it. i have no idea if the painting actually was
intended to inspire those thoughts, or those images, but
it did. i won't tell anyone what i saw in it, or how
it made me feel, because that is personal. if i saw that
piece hanging in a gallery, and the price were within my
grasp, i would doubtless have bought it.
gullible?
i don't know. it "spoke" to me.
and so it is with some poetry. some of it speaks to me
in some fashion or other. most of it does not. that
which does not, i have to examine from afar, and try to
discern why it is considered good, and, indeed, why some
of it is even considered "poetry" at all.
but my life is very crowded and all too short. there are
many things i'd rather spend time learning and studying
and perusing, so i don't spend *too* much time studying
a piece of work that does not speak much to me.
so. if the poet's words resonate within me, then it
must be "good" poetry. otherwise it's just so many
words like so many motes of dust, and i feel justified
in sweeping them away.
--
n
No matter what my problem is, it's the fault of someone other than
myself, and the appropriate response is to find that person and
kill him with my bare hands. -- from "Things I Learn About Life
From Action Adventure Films"
Animeg3282
Not to mention, when they teach poetry, they make all kinds of absurd demands.
I could write a 'poem' like this:
When I was a young girl
I turned into a tree
and it really sucks, I can tell you.
And they'd ask you to explain the metaphors in it, the meaning(and it can't be
a sensible meaning either- like whent he poet was young, she turned into a tree
and din't like it or even when the poet was young, she took a bunch of drugs
and went crazy or had an overactive imaganation and was a loser) If I wasn't
such a nosy little chap, I'd hate poetry myself.
>
>I've for years wanted to ask the same question of a great clot of
>editors. It's possible for a poet to build a career on being published
>in the "New Yorker" at a young age. I knew one man who did it, Everett
>Something-or-Other in New Orleans, who kept himself employed on that
>slim resumé entry, until he managed to drink himself to death, a long
>way from being fifty years old... Except most of what appears as
>"poetry" in the "New Yorker" is entirely incomprehensible to me and most
>of the people I know.
>
Because it's 'art'. It's like..pushing the envolpe or something. Sure, it's not
good like the poetry I like, but I have uneducated tastes, stuff about clear
images and smooth cadence of words..
>
>I ain't got a clue what makes "good" poetry, other than the natural
>tendency to assume "If I like it, it's good."
>
>Sometimes I think it's the same nonsensical mindset that infests the art
>community.
>
>Some years ago the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis spent enough money
>to buy a working farm to obtain an enormous piece of canvas with two
>white stripes painted on it. The stripes were of a slightly different
>tone and were separated by a thin black line. I forget who did it,
>though it was a "brand name" artist.
>
>Too many poetry "editors" and "critics" are the spiritual cousins of
>whomever wrote a check for that painting.
That's weird, and I like abstract art. Abstract art is the only kind I really
do much, because I can't draw. I've been doing more representational stuff
because I'm in art class, but..
Hana no Kaitou
Pledged to the Way of the Wimp
"Kero Kero!" Mimori, KeroKero Chime
http://members.fortunecity.com/animeg3282 <---Fancy Lala Club! All better now!
http://members.fortunecity.com/animeg3282/graduation.html <Graduation website.
Ejucaided Redneck
> the spousal unit and i, along with our next-door neighbors,
> subscribe to a decent local theatre group. 5-6 shows a
> year, of high calibre, some artsy, some funky, some new
> and daring, some old and guaranteed money-making
Ain't got a thing to do with what sparked this thread, but does that
theater group accept free-lance submissions? Do they pay for them?
Ejucaided Redneck
> Because it's 'art'. It's like..pushing the envolpe or something. Sure, it's not
> good like the poetry I like, but I have uneducated tastes, stuff about clear
> images and smooth cadence of words..
Made me laugh, youngster, the first stime in a long time one of your
posts provoked that response. "Out of the mouts of babes" and all that.
grizzellda
"Ejucaided Redneck" <briarh...@yall.com> wrote in message
news:39EA017F...@yall.com...
> This'll likely go long...
>
Thank you for responding! You've cheered me quite a bit.
>but the
> writing workshop I facilitate at the local yoo decided to move toward
> poetry this week, and in an effort to keep up with the people I'm
> supposed to be leading, I've devoted considerable time over a few days
> reading and thinking about poetry
Must be the season. All those pretty colors sparking something in everyone.
What you say below makes sense to me. I'll check out Dickey and Harrison.
Thanks again.
grizzellda
--
"To be nobody but yourself in a world that's doing its best to make you
somebody else, is to fight the hardest battle you are ever going to fight.
Never stop fighting." (E.E. Cummings)
>
> So...
>
> When people say "I don't like poetry," in most cases they're saying "I
> don't like most of what's been presented to me as 'poetry.'" And that
> makes perfect sense. Go into a bookstore, whether it's one of the too
> rapidly disappearing neighborhood shops or one of the chains, and how
> many of the volumes there will interest you enough that you'll recall
> their authors' names, or want to turn toward them again? Bet it's close
> to the ratio of poems which stick to your memory, compared to the
> entirety of whatever you've read.
>
> Maybe higher, because there are even more bad poets than bad writers.
>
> Even in a time
> When everyone has a computer,
> It's still so much easier,
> the business of breaking
> Bland prose into short sentences
> And calling it
> "Poetry,"
> Easier than the awful drudgery
> Of writing fifteen or twenty
> Pages
> Of bad prose.
>
> > Okay, I made a grave error a while back. I had the audacity to say that
I
> > "didn't like poetry in general."
>
> I don't either, though I've got my own list of poets whose books I keep
> around. James Dickey (even loonier than Salinger, if _his_ kids memoir
> is to be believed) and Jim Harrison (whom I still think is America's
> best kept literary secret) are on it with a slew of others, from two or
> three different centuries.
>
> > So, what is that piece I am missing?
>
> I've for years wanted to ask the same question of a great clot of
> editors. It's possible for a poet to build a career on being published
> in the "New Yorker" at a young age. I knew one man who did it, Everett
> Something-or-Other in New Orleans, who kept himself employed on that
> slim resumé entry, until he managed to drink himself to death, a long
> way from being fifty years old... Except most of what appears as
> "poetry" in the "New Yorker" is entirely incomprehensible to me and most
> of the people I know.
>
> I ain't got a clue what makes "good" poetry, other than the natural
> tendency to assume "If I like it, it's good."
>
> Sometimes I think it's the same nonsensical mindset that infests the art
> community.
>
> Some years ago the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis spent enough money
> to buy a working farm to obtain an enormous piece of canvas with two
> white stripes painted on it. The stripes were of a slightly different
> tone and were separated by a thin black line. I forget who did it,
> though it was a "brand name" artist.
>
> Too many poetry "editors" and "critics" are the spiritual cousins of
> whomever wrote a check for that painting.
Johinsa
> Not to mention, when they teach poetry, they make all kinds of absurd demands.
> I could write a 'poem' like this:
>
> When I was a young girl
> I turned into a tree
> and it really sucks, I can tell you.
>
> And they'd ask you to explain the metaphors in it, the meaning(and it can't be
> a sensible meaning either- like whent he poet was young, she turned into a tree
> and din't like it or even when the poet was young, she took a bunch of drugs
> and went crazy or had an overactive imaganation and was a loser) If I wasn't
> such a nosy little chap, I'd hate poetry myself.
English class turns a lot of people off poetry, I think. I've been told
by one teacher that I had no poetic talent and told by another that the
poem I'd written was too "mature" for someone my age to have written it
and I therefore had obviously copied from somewhere. I suppose I should
take that one as a compliment, but my response at the time was to throw
the poem away and write one about trees in spring. I enjoy writing
poetry a lot more now that I don't write for English teachers' approval.
One more English course to get through and then I'm done.
Johinsa