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DOES A SYMBOL FOR NON-DENOMINATIONAL PAGANS EXIST?
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Madame Monpetit
Feb 17, 2013, 4:02:46 PM2/17/13
to
Hi there,
So I was wondering, since the symbol of Wicca is the Pentagram,
much like Thor's hammer is for Asatru, the Laurel wreath is for
Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionism (Hellenismos), and the
Ankh is for Kemetism; is there a religious symbol typically used
by non-denominational pagans?.
Madame Monpetit
So I was wondering, since the symbol of Wicca is the Pentagram,
much like Thor's hammer is for Asatru, the Laurel wreath is for
Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionism (Hellenismos), and the
Ankh is for Kemetism; is there a religious symbol typically used
by non-denominational pagans?.
Madame Monpetit
1X2Willows
Feb 17, 2013, 4:28:46 PM2/17/13
to
Cave of El Castillo, Spain.
For an in-depth explanation, please turn to my first response on a.r.a.
which wasn't crossposted to any of the other groups.
David Melik
Feb 18, 2013, 8:53:01 PM2/18/13
to
On 02/17/2013 01:02 PM, Madame Monpetit wrote:> Hi there,
Pentagrams/pentacles are not only a Wiccan symbol. They are also an
occult/magic and Athena symbol.
Perhaps something like the stylized drawing of the earlier model of the
atom, used by scientists, is something you are looking for--unless you
believe in a number of ideas that could be called superstition, in total
(like to a 51% degree,) more than science (like to maybe only a 49%
degree.) If you accept some of the main ideas of science or mathematics
(which is beyond science, and superior,) then no one may really care
about much else you (dis)believe or consider important beyond that.
Even scientists have all sorts of different philosophies, such as mainly
empiricist materialism, sometimes atheism, secular humanism, or just a
lack of focus on human things, and some have philosophies of
pan(en)theism, rationalist idealism (rarely,) or a mix of these things
with any religion in a way that works or may have contradictions that
are not so clear.
You could look at something like http://www.symboldictionary.net/ . It
is one of the 'nets oldest symbols sites and maybe has more answers.
I still recommend a Greek or perhaps Indian sign just because of the age
and philosophical greatness of those cultures. If it were not for what
Greek pagan/heathen science started, you would arguably not even have
your pagan/heathen books, or the 'net that you read & write
pagan/heathen info on, or anything else that is civilized. Maybe a less
Hellenic Greek symbol would work, or the Indian 'Om,' since Hinduism
usually includes ideas about accepting and integrating all other
religions--sometimes even ones hostile to it. In the context of Eurasian
pagan/heathen religions, India's may be the oldest, and the other
Indo-European religions are related to India's--much other such language
and mythology seems at least partly related to India's.
The wreath may not be so Hellenic as other Hellenic symbols, such as
certain Greek versions of the sun and lightning bolt.
I think that even when I no longer considered myself Wiccan, I still
wore a pentagram because it seemed like a generic pagan/heathen and
occult symbol.
Now if I chose another, I would choose either the atom or circumpunct
(dot centred in a circle.) Other alternatives would be a tree
(symbolizing 'world tree,') if you want something universal to all
European (and perhaps Indian) paganism, or even just a circle, such as
used in Ch'an/Zen (stylized there,) and as something at least used in
other pagan/heathen symbols, that would probably be argued against by
non-pagan/-heathen religions. Perhaps a generic picture of Earth or the
sun are options, and a torch (another Greek symbol) may be another
option, indicating a focus on 'enlightenment' (not just in Greek
philosophy) or truth.
To me, finding such a symbol is not so important as finding out what
symbols mean, and learning about ideas in strictly pagan/heathen
philosophies/religions--i.e. non-Abrahamic ones, including far Eastern,
native American, indigenous African, Australian philosophies/religions,
whether their focus is the 'Earth'--as claimed by many non-Greek
pagans/heathens (which has little precedent,) or whatever else, or if
they are just not Abrahamic.
Well, I do use the term 'pagan/heathen' almost half the time to refer to
country/rural-based religions, but the ones 'pagans/heathens' talked
about usually were in the context of religions in which cities were
important, such as in the religions of India, China, many other ancient
civlizations, Hellenismos. In many ways, the strictly non-pagan/-heathen
religions that started with wandering/desert tribes & fishing villages
were more 'pagan/heathen' in the 'in a country/rural area' definition
than some of the former ones. That is why I am suggesting some more
science and occult-focused symbols (and of course no Abrahamic ones.)
Maybe they will work for you, or maybe not.
Actually, I looked again at symboldictionary.net when writing and could
not find much else I would use, but you might. I think you have many
options, but probably several that should work, but I am not sure if
there is necessarily one that everyone will recognize to the degree you
want, besides perhaps a tree, in its mythological significance, but I am
not sure about its actual symbol usage.
The oak is sacred in Hellenismos, and Slavic paganism/heathenism, IIRC,
as well as Celtic, at least Druidic religion, but in Teutonic
heathenism, it is of course the ash/rowan that is sacred... so maybe
another natural symbol or another I mentioned or you could find would
work better--they have just been used a symbol less, I think.
If you can find a tree symbol that it is not clear if it is oak or ash,
or use some interpreted mythological idea it means, like 'axis mundi' or
'world axis,' maybe that would be one version of that that works. If you
wanted to include Indian polytheism, or non-Eurasian stuff, such as in
cases there is still not much city-related or complicated written
philosophy, you may have to pick something else--possibly just the
circle without point in the middle.
Hopefully this helps.
occult/magic and Athena symbol.
Perhaps something like the stylized drawing of the earlier model of the
atom, used by scientists, is something you are looking for--unless you
believe in a number of ideas that could be called superstition, in total
(like to a 51% degree,) more than science (like to maybe only a 49%
degree.) If you accept some of the main ideas of science or mathematics
(which is beyond science, and superior,) then no one may really care
about much else you (dis)believe or consider important beyond that.
Even scientists have all sorts of different philosophies, such as mainly
empiricist materialism, sometimes atheism, secular humanism, or just a
lack of focus on human things, and some have philosophies of
pan(en)theism, rationalist idealism (rarely,) or a mix of these things
with any religion in a way that works or may have contradictions that
are not so clear.
You could look at something like http://www.symboldictionary.net/ . It
is one of the 'nets oldest symbols sites and maybe has more answers.
I still recommend a Greek or perhaps Indian sign just because of the age
and philosophical greatness of those cultures. If it were not for what
Greek pagan/heathen science started, you would arguably not even have
your pagan/heathen books, or the 'net that you read & write
pagan/heathen info on, or anything else that is civilized. Maybe a less
Hellenic Greek symbol would work, or the Indian 'Om,' since Hinduism
usually includes ideas about accepting and integrating all other
religions--sometimes even ones hostile to it. In the context of Eurasian
pagan/heathen religions, India's may be the oldest, and the other
Indo-European religions are related to India's--much other such language
and mythology seems at least partly related to India's.
The wreath may not be so Hellenic as other Hellenic symbols, such as
certain Greek versions of the sun and lightning bolt.
I think that even when I no longer considered myself Wiccan, I still
wore a pentagram because it seemed like a generic pagan/heathen and
occult symbol.
Now if I chose another, I would choose either the atom or circumpunct
(dot centred in a circle.) Other alternatives would be a tree
(symbolizing 'world tree,') if you want something universal to all
European (and perhaps Indian) paganism, or even just a circle, such as
used in Ch'an/Zen (stylized there,) and as something at least used in
other pagan/heathen symbols, that would probably be argued against by
non-pagan/-heathen religions. Perhaps a generic picture of Earth or the
sun are options, and a torch (another Greek symbol) may be another
option, indicating a focus on 'enlightenment' (not just in Greek
philosophy) or truth.
To me, finding such a symbol is not so important as finding out what
symbols mean, and learning about ideas in strictly pagan/heathen
philosophies/religions--i.e. non-Abrahamic ones, including far Eastern,
native American, indigenous African, Australian philosophies/religions,
whether their focus is the 'Earth'--as claimed by many non-Greek
pagans/heathens (which has little precedent,) or whatever else, or if
they are just not Abrahamic.
Well, I do use the term 'pagan/heathen' almost half the time to refer to
country/rural-based religions, but the ones 'pagans/heathens' talked
about usually were in the context of religions in which cities were
important, such as in the religions of India, China, many other ancient
civlizations, Hellenismos. In many ways, the strictly non-pagan/-heathen
religions that started with wandering/desert tribes & fishing villages
were more 'pagan/heathen' in the 'in a country/rural area' definition
than some of the former ones. That is why I am suggesting some more
science and occult-focused symbols (and of course no Abrahamic ones.)
Maybe they will work for you, or maybe not.
Actually, I looked again at symboldictionary.net when writing and could
not find much else I would use, but you might. I think you have many
options, but probably several that should work, but I am not sure if
there is necessarily one that everyone will recognize to the degree you
want, besides perhaps a tree, in its mythological significance, but I am
not sure about its actual symbol usage.
The oak is sacred in Hellenismos, and Slavic paganism/heathenism, IIRC,
as well as Celtic, at least Druidic religion, but in Teutonic
heathenism, it is of course the ash/rowan that is sacred... so maybe
another natural symbol or another I mentioned or you could find would
work better--they have just been used a symbol less, I think.
If you can find a tree symbol that it is not clear if it is oak or ash,
or use some interpreted mythological idea it means, like 'axis mundi' or
'world axis,' maybe that would be one version of that that works. If you
wanted to include Indian polytheism, or non-Eurasian stuff, such as in
cases there is still not much city-related or complicated written
philosophy, you may have to pick something else--possibly just the
circle without point in the middle.
Hopefully this helps.
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
Feb 19, 2013, 3:50:10 PM2/19/13
to
1X2Willows
Feb 19, 2013, 7:09:31 PM2/19/13
to
Diavanii Regina
Oct 2, 2014, 6:15:39 PM10/2/14
to
Symbols or glyphs for moon, sun and earth, water, fire and birth, triangle, spiral, shining, spinning, look to the shapes of the natural world and you will find your shape.
greenblo...@gmail.com
Oct 18, 2014, 11:37:31 PM10/18/14
to
Being an eclectic solitary pagan I use both the pentacle and a Raven's head emblem. Although, pentacles and pentagrams are universal for most, if not all, pagan witchcraft magics; or so I've learned so far.
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