And what did we get with Windows? We got to have two or three programs open
at the same time. And we didn't have to learn DOS. LA DE Freaking DAH.
You could teach any novice all the DOS they'd ever need to know in 30
minutes. Try teaching someone Windows in 30 minutes? And wouldn't it be
great to have the choice to use the ever stable DOS, and use all that
horsepower we've got now to run the freaking programs we want to run without
squandering the power on a high mainteance, Zsa Zsa Gabor style operating
system that gives you crashes, error messages, reboots and data loss?
So all you guys who think you're so wise to poo poo DOS need to take off the
blinders and think about what we lost with dirty old DOS. And don't give me
any crap about 32 bit processors. A simpler operating system could handle
what Windows does without the crap that comes with that ugly swamp of
Windows code lurking just below the surface, seething, smoking, oozing. It's
a big zit waiting to pop, brothers.
--
Blaise Pascal's excuse for his verbose letters: "I have only made this
[letter] longer because I have not had the time to make it shorter."
To this day I still drop to the DOS shell to do many things in Wnidows98 and
NT, however I must point out that a well maintained/administered Windows
system seldom if ever crashes. It is the nuances of the OS and not taking
the time to learn and understand what Windows is doing in the background
that causes most system crashes. That is to say that it is the user that
causes the system to crash, not the OS.
In my learning days, I was even able to make DOS applications hang and
crash, so the problem of TSH (terminate system and hang) is not unique to
just Win, it would even happen in DOS. Thus, your comments, while mostly
accurate, are to say the least, unfounded.
What really chaps my hide is the user who meddles around blindly, tinkering
and changing things with his/her system, without the foreknowledge of what
they are doing, and the impact therein. Then turn around and blame not
themselves for hosing their system up, but Microsoft and Windows in general.
Granted, many of these users are home users, but think about it... if IS
professionals maintained their systems in the office the same way that home
users maintain home systems, how long would any one company be up and
running on a stable environment? Moreso to the point, how long would that
professional be in gainful employment?
Just how many home users do you think tackle the tough questions here and
attempt to help? I'm willing to bet that most of the technical answers come
from IS professionals like myself, with those answers in an easy to
understand, down to Earth no nonesense method that is which easy to
understand and comprehensible, by even the simplest home user. As I said
before, Windows is stable, for the most part, yes there are bugs and
security holes, but I challenge anyone to show me a perfect OS. Come on,
throw it in my face. You can't, because no system is totally free of bugs
or security holes, and most especially, no system is invulernable to the
tinkering "end-user."
Conaill
Ricardo <ric...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:801km6$jo7$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Ever use a Mac? Its OS is simpler, more stable, and doesn't weave the
application into the OS to such an extent that the only solution to some
problems is a clean reinstall of the OS. The graphics and printing industry
eschews Windows in favor of Mac's much more stable OS. There's a reason.
Microsoft's predatory upgrade policy, which makes full blown versions
difficult and expensive to buy, only exacerbates the instability problem.
There are some systems out there with three layers of MS code on their hard
drives: 3.1; 95 and 98. Yikes!
Mac doesn't pull that crap. You buy their OS, it's full blown.
Conaill <con...@somewhere.you.arent> wrote in message
news:p_YU3.98$Xc....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
>Ever use a Mac? Its OS is simpler, more stable, and doesn't weave the
>application into the OS to such an extent that the only solution to some
>problems is a clean reinstall of the OS. The graphics and printing industry
>eschews Windows in favor of Mac's much more stable OS. There's a reason.
Don't forget that there is one significant difference between the Mac
and a PC. The Mac has only one real hardware configuration and a
significantly smaller number of applications. The PC can have an
almost unlimited number of hardware configurations and a vastly larger
number of software applications.
This is the real reason why there are more crashes in Windows than
MacOS, that is not to saythat there aren't crashes on the Mac.
Regards
Bernard Davis
bda...@castlecs.clara.co.uk
http://www.castlecs.clara.co.uk
Tel/Fax UK 01772 751465
Mac's can be blown out of the water to by an inexperienced user just as
well. For using a Mac, yes I have used a Mac, as a former Novell Network
Administrator and NT Administrator, I have many times installed a Mac onto
the network. And I have seen just as many OS related problems as I have
with DOS and Windows systems.
I stand by my statement that no system is that stable that it runs forever,
as it is the end-user that causes most problems with OS crashes, on Mac,
Windows, or Unix.
Ricardo <ric...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:801ta8$jko$1...@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Read the Federal Court's decision. Microsoft has used its OS monopoly to
> stifle competition. It has virtually no competitors so it doesn't have to
be
> good, just so so. It's practically the only game in town.
>
> Ever use a Mac? Its OS is simpler, more stable, and doesn't weave the
> application into the OS to such an extent that the only solution to some
> problems is a clean reinstall of the OS. The graphics and printing
industry
> eschews Windows in favor of Mac's much more stable OS. There's a reason.
>
Just curious.
Ricardo wrote in message <801km6$jo7$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
If showroom new automobiles operated as poorly as the average new Win/tel
product, Washington and the public would be declaring war on Detroit.
Conaill <con...@somewhere.you.arent> wrote in message
news:dh%U3.191$Xc...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
I am arrogant, this I know to be true, but gee... I've been putzing around
with computers as a programmer since 1978, found PC's in 1982 and have
evolved from a programmer, to Network Administrator, Network Engineer,
Systems Engineer, Help Desk (Level 3) to Service Manager of a reseller. I
hold not a CNA, CNE, MCSE, MCP, A+ and after the first of year when the test
becomes available in my area will go for my Network+ exam. I'm not a rookie
by no means, and I offer helpful advice. I find all to often that the user
misunderstands the tech, often times because the tech speaks over the users
level of knowledge. This very fact is something that I pointed out in an
earlier post, only to have NoMail jump my case.
In short, I can communicate with my customer on a level that he/she
understands, so that there are no miscommunications or misconceptions. More
techs should try to bring themselves down to Earth (hello NoMail, ya hear
me?) and talk to an end-user, instead of spewing babble that the average
end-user isn't going to understand.
Walt <kn...@migpige.com> wrote in message
news:8021fk$mna$0...@216.155.32.104...
Ricardo <ric...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:802atl$spr$1...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
100% Recycled <n...@thisplace.com> wrote in message
news:3828c204.10719491@news...
> I remember Q-DOS, sadly that reminds me of just how close to
> retirement I am. BTW, Q-DOS, and all DOSes that followed were the
> product of The Rand Corporations UNIX Operating system based on this
> document:
> http://www.rand.org/cgi-bin/Abstracts/ordi/getab.pl?1117884-1119454
>
> Interestingly enough, the Internet was based on another RAND document:
> (This one in full)
> http://www.rand.org/publications/RM/RM3420/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 06 Nov 1999 21:49:25 GMT, "Storage King Self Storage Ltd."
> <stor...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
>
> >Does anyone remember C-Dos?
> >That was sweet for resource handling, and running multiple proggies at
once.
> >Kinda reminds me of the terminals in Unix actually.
> >Does anyone know if Unix is what inspired Concurrent Dos?
> >
> >Just curious.
> >
> >
> >Ricardo wrote in message <801km6$jo7$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>Actually, I would have to agree with you in part. DOS was the system that I
>learned on, actually I first learned CP/M on the Commodore 128, so moving to
>DOS wasn't all that terribly difficult, short of remembering that back-slash
>was not the same as forward-slash.
>
>To this day I still drop to the DOS shell to do many things in Wnidows98 and
>NT, however I must point out that a well maintained/administered Windows
>system seldom if ever crashes.
Maintenance, Schmaintenance! I bought my first PC in 1988 and I
didn't know the first thing about house cleaning. DOS 3.3 NEVER
crashed without my doing something to it. I always fixed it in a
matter of minutes and it ran like a Swiss watch.
> It is the nuances of the OS and not taking the time to learn and understand
> what Windows is doing in the background that causes most system crashes.
Nuance is an excellent word choice when referring to windows! It is
precisely those "nuances" that produce inconsistent results on a very
regular basis. DOS always did what you told it to -- Always.
> That is to say that it is the user that causes the system to crash, not the OS.
Bull! I get error messages after a complete and fresh reinstall when
only windows is installed. That never happens with DOS
>In my learning days, I was even able to make DOS applications hang and
>crash, so the problem of TSH (terminate system and hang) is not unique to
>just Win, it would even happen in DOS.
Agreed. But you didn't need a newsgroup full of experts from around
the world to help you sort through the debris to get your system
running again.
> Thus, your comments, while mostly accurate, are to say the least, unfounded.
They're not unfounded. I know exactly what he is referring to and so
do probably 75% of the people requesting advise here.
>What really chaps my hide is the user who meddles around blindly, tinkering
>and changing things with his/her system, without the foreknowledge of what
>they are doing, and the impact therein. Then turn around and blame not
>themselves for hosing their system up, but Microsoft and Windows in general.
The reason most people meddle with their system is because they want
(and need) their system to do what they want it to, not what Bill
Gates wants it to every once in a while.
>Granted, many of these users are home users, but think about it... if IS
>professionals maintained their systems in the office the same way that home
>users maintain home systems, how long would any one company be up and
>running on a stable environment? Moreso to the point, how long would that
>professional be in gainful employment?
>
>Just how many home users do you think tackle the tough questions here and
>attempt to help? I'm willing to bet that most of the technical answers come
>from IS professionals like myself, with those answers in an easy to
>understand, down to Earth no nonesense method that is which easy to
>understand and comprehensible, by even the simplest home user.
You hit the nail on the head with this one! At least with a simple OS
like DOS there wasn't the need for the home user to bring in the heavy
weights to solve a problem.
> As I said before, Windows is stable, for the most part, yes there are bugs and
>security holes, but I challenge anyone to show me a perfect OS. Come on,
>throw it in my face.
The perfect OS is what Windows is running on -- DOS. Not only that,
the whole thing fit on a single floppy and even a "Non IS
Professional" like myself could install it in a couple of minutes.
Try installing Windows that quickly.
> You can't, because no system is totally free of bugs or security holes,
> and most especially, no system is invulernable to the tinkering "end-user."
I ran my old PC for 8 years and you could count on one hand how many
times I had to reboot because DOS crashed. The first week I had
windows I lost track of how many times I had to reboot.
One final point. DOS was an operating system and nothing more.
That's all I wanted. Why are there so darn many advertisements on
Windows. I want a reliable operating system not an infomercial!!!
I stand by my statement that windows is a stable operating system, until the
user starts putzing around with it. Further, DOS was stable too, until the
user putzed with it. I can lock up any DOS system, equally as fast as
locking up a windows systems.
Richard Cranium <Richard...@Home.Now> wrote in message
news:HdQkOKLvEr3pWq...@4ax.com...
Conaill wrote in message ...
>yada yada.... you perfection then? try linux.
>
>I stand by my statement that windows is a stable operating system, until the
>user starts putzing around with it. Further, DOS was stable too, until the
>user putzed with it. I can lock up any DOS system, equally as fast as
>locking up a windows systems.
I agree, I could lock up DOS too, IF I TRIED.
Unfortunately I don't have to try with Windows -- that is one of the
undocumented features that is included for free(?).
OK, Windows tinkerers. You've got the perfect OS to complement your
problem-solving egos. But the rest of us just want to work with the
applications, not the freaking OS.
Richard Cranium makes a good point. Look at all the poor SOB's in this
newsgroup begging for help. They can't get out of Safe Mode. They've got
illegal operations. They've got protection faults. Their screens are frozen.
Their start buttons have disappeared. Their drivers don't drive. They've got
wallpaper problems. One guy says..."MS is killing me."
Earth to Bill Gates. You could double your fortune by coming out with a
stripped down, highly stable OS without all the freaking bells and whistles
of Windows, but one that doesn't crash, freeze, stall, snooze, puke, or
fart. In fact, on boot up, give us a choice...the stable OS that never
crashes, or the high maintenance Zsa Zsa Gabor version for those who like
the unexpected.
> Richard Cranium makes a good point. Look at all the poor
SOB's in this
> newsgroup begging for help. They can't get out of Safe
Mode. They've got
> illegal operations. They've got protection faults. Their
screens are frozen.
> Their start buttons have disappeared. Their drivers don't
drive. They've got
> wallpaper problems. One guy says..."MS is killing me."
OK, fine. I looked at the number of people who come here
looking for help. Now look at the vastly greater number of
Windows 98 who have no problems and don't come here or
anywhere else looking for help.
This *is* a support newsgroup. People with problems do come
here looking for help. Extrapolating from that to the
statement that Windows 98 is a problem-ridden operating
system is simply nonsense.
It would be far stranger if most of the posts here said
things like "Everything is hunky-dory with Windows 98 here."
--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup.
Read the remarks of the federal judge who declared MS a monopoly that
produces a problem plagued OS because there is no effective competitor to
challenge them to make a better product.
Sure...there are a lot of Windows co-dependants. But many are getting out
into the fresh air, getting some exercise, and realizing the extent of their
tunnel vision.
<BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com> wrote in message
news:38262790...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
> You really should have taken that course in critical thinking and
> statistical analysis when it was offered.
>
> BB
Ricardo wrote in message <805drq$44p$1...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
>For every one who makes it to a support news group, how many are out there
>living with a limping Windows OS because they don't know what else to do?
If
>five percent of Windows users have read or posted to a Usenet group, I'd be
>surprised.
>
>Read the remarks of the federal judge who declared MS a monopoly that
>produces a problem plagued OS because there is no effective competitor to
>challenge them to make a better product.
>
>Sure...there are a lot of Windows co-dependants. But many are getting out
>into the fresh air, getting some exercise, and realizing the extent of
their
>tunnel vision.
>
>
>
>
><BinaryBillTheSailor@Sea++.com> wrote in message
>news:38262790...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
>> On Sun, 7 Nov 1999 14:51:04 -0800, "Ricardo" <ric...@nospam.com>
>> wrote:
>>
On Sun, 7 Nov 1999 17:56:50 -0700, "Ken Blake" <nob...@home.com>
wrote:
>Ricardo <ric...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:804vrb$ajo$1...@fir.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
>> Richard Cranium makes a good point. Look at all the poor
>SOB's in this
>> newsgroup begging for help. They can't get out of Safe
>Mode. They've got
>> illegal operations. They've got protection faults. Their
>screens are frozen.
>> Their start buttons have disappeared. Their drivers don't
>drive. They've got
>> wallpaper problems. One guy says..."MS is killing me."
>
>
Conaill wrote:
> Actually, I would have to agree with you in part. DOS was the system that I
> learned on, actually I first learned CP/M on the Commodore 128, so moving to
> DOS wasn't all that terribly difficult, short of remembering that back-slash
> was not the same as forward-slash.
>
> To this day I still drop to the DOS shell to do many things in Wnidows98 and
> NT, however I must point out that a well maintained/administered Windows
> system seldom if ever crashes. It is the nuances of the OS and not taking
> the time to learn and understand what Windows is doing in the background
> that causes most system crashes. That is to say that it is the user that
> causes the system to crash, not the OS.
>
> In my learning days, I was even able to make DOS applications hang and
> crash, so the problem of TSH (terminate system and hang) is not unique to
> just Win, it would even happen in DOS. Thus, your comments, while mostly
> accurate, are to say the least, unfounded.
>
> What really chaps my hide is the user who meddles around blindly, tinkering
> and changing things with his/her system, without the foreknowledge of what
> they are doing, and the impact therein. Then turn around and blame not
> themselves for hosing their system up, but Microsoft and Windows in general.
> Granted, many of these users are home users, but think about it... if IS
> professionals maintained their systems in the office the same way that home
> users maintain home systems, how long would any one company be up and
> running on a stable environment? Moreso to the point, how long would that
> professional be in gainful employment?
>
> Just how many home users do you think tackle the tough questions here and
> attempt to help? I'm willing to bet that most of the technical answers come
> from IS professionals like myself, with those answers in an easy to
> understand, down to Earth no nonesense method that is which easy to
> understand and comprehensible, by even the simplest home user. As I said
> before, Windows is stable, for the most part, yes there are bugs and
> security holes, but I challenge anyone to show me a perfect OS. Come on,
> throw it in my face. You can't, because no system is totally free of bugs
> or security holes, and most especially, no system is invulernable to the
> tinkering "end-user."
I build systems, but I started learning computers at home. Under Windows 2.x and
3.x I had my DOS prompt on the desktop and under Windows NT and 9x it still sits
there. I drop out to do the majority of my file operations and what not as I
still find it much easier to do this than use the Explorer interface. I even
have the old 3.11 WinFile on my desktop. The ONLY operation I consistently do in
Explorer is clone floppies and Zip disks because it does this faster.
As to the end users screwing up the system. As you say no OS is immune to this.
However, I find that, even when DOS was the OS, many software companies "know
what is good for you" and install all kindsa crap to run. In Windows these
things usually run in the background. Programs like MS FindFast, which is pure
crap as far as I am concerned, Iomega's "disk management" utilities,
WordPerfect's DAD and PerfectPrint, Norton's System Monitor, Crash Gaurd,
Uninstall, Virus checker, and so on and on and on.
Quite a bit I find myself at someone's house or office deinstalling the crap
that Norton, Iomega, Corel, Adobe, or some other software has placed in a
person's startup or run section of the registry that is causing the sytem to
hang or run slow. So do not blame it all on the user, some of the blame needs to
reside with people who write software that "knows what is best".
>
>
> Conaill
>
> Ricardo <ric...@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:801km6$jo7$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
--
Mike Burkett
To email me remove the second 2.
ACTUAL TECH SUPPORT CALLS:
Caller: "Eudora keeps giving me the error 'connection confused'."
Caller: "My computer's telling me I performed an illegal abortion."
A SMART TECH SUPPORT PERSON
Customer: "I am getting an error on my computer"
Tech Support: "What kind of error?"
Customer: "It says I have a corrupted file on my hard drive, and I should run
'Check Disk'."
Tech Support: "Ok, we need to call in a ticket, and someone will be down
shortly."
Customer: "Can you make sure you bring some extra Check Disks, because mine does
not work."
Tech Support: "Uh. We're out of stock right now, but I'll order some."
MY CALL TO TECH SUPPORT AFTER TWEAKING A MODEM FOR FOUR HOURS
Me: "I,ve tried ??????. Now what should I do?"
Tech Support: "Restart the computer in DOS and then type FDISK."
Me (laughing): "How many idiots do you get to actually do that?"
Tech Support: "Let me get my supervisor."
http://thedoofus.homepage.com/
I should be able to have the thing up and running sometime after
Christmas.
Ron Goodenow <rkg...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3829FFD0...@mindspring.com...
>Richard Cranium makes a good point. Look at all the poor SOB's in this
>newsgroup begging for help. They can't get out of Safe Mode. They've got
>illegal operations. They've got protection faults. Their screens are frozen.
>Their start buttons have disappeared. Their drivers don't drive. They've got
>wallpaper problems. One guy says..."MS is killing me."
You know, if you hang out at a police precinct, everyone you meet is a
cop, a criminal, or the victim of a crime. Would you say the same of
everyone in that city?
There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism of MS or Windows, but
people like you wear their ulterior motives on their sleeves. People
like you will gather data that supports their viewpoint aggressively,
and ignore, or even accuse of lying, people who are not having major
problems with Windows.
Hosed Windows systems are probably something that happens maybe once
every 3 to 5 years, to the average user. With all the hundreds of
millions of people who are using Windows, that means a lot of potential
problems. It doesn't mean that the average user is constantly bombarded
with them, though. And many times, the problems are due to hardware and
3rd party drivers, not Windows itself. People like you are quick to
blame anything that goes wrong on a computer with Windows on Windows,
with no need for further investigation.
--
<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <jsh...@ix.netcom.com>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><