When your computer dies without warning.....
Valentin
After a year of service, without any provocation, in an idle state it just
went quiet. The only sign of life was and still is a green onboard LED.
Suspect number one was the power supply. Replaced with a different one:
still no change.
What's next: the mother board, processor? Any ideas?
OS: Windows XP Home
MB: Asus P4P800-E
Processor: Intel P4 - 1GHz
Memory: 1 GB
Sinner
"Valentin" <laban...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Hrydnbm4fJ4sH1XY...@adelphia.com...
To old and weak to save. Salvage what you can, and move on.
Desserten
"Valentin" <laban...@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:Hrydnbm4fJ4sH1XY...@adelphia.com...
Let it R.I.P............
Old people can get tired of living, so can old computers....:-)
Desserten
Just reminded me of my grandma....she also just went quiet one day......she
was 85 and your pc is at least twice that old.............in pc years !!
Valentin
could you be more specific as to your diagnose "too old, to weak"?
What is so terribly fricken "old" with this system?
Looks like my best bet to get some coherent intelligent advice is to contact
some clowns at the local circus.
"Desserten" <Fuc...@SpamFucker.Zero> wrote in message
news:45c89cf8$0$917$edfa...@dread12.news.tele.dk...
Damian
> To "doctors" Sinner and Desserten,
> could you be more specific as to your diagnose "too old, to weak"?
Go read your own post. How in hell can anyone help you with something that
vague.
> What is so terribly fricken "old" with this system?
An ASUS P4P800 / 1GB P4 if pretty damned old!
> Looks like my best bet to get some coherent intelligent advice is to
> contact some clowns at the local circus.
Run along, you won't be missed.
Sinner
> To "doctors" Sinner and Desserten,
> could you be more specific as to your diagnose "too old, to weak"?
> What is so terribly fricken "old" with this system?
> Looks like my best bet to get some coherent intelligent advice is to
> contact some clowns at the local circus.
>
The latest review I found was 2.5 years old. That means the board is pretty
much obsolete. You've only got a 1Ghz processor in it, another indication
of it's age. If the mobo is bad, you gotta replace it anyway. If it's not,
why try to upgrade an obsolete system.
But, you just run along and get your clown advice, 'cause you won't be seen
on my desktop again.
Valentin
"Damian" <nos...@rabid-dog.net> wrote in message
news:45c8ac9a$0$97256$892e...@authen.yellow.readfreenews.net...
> Valentin wrote:
>> To "doctors" Sinner and Desserten,
>> could you be more specific as to your diagnose "too old, to weak"?
>
> Go read your own post. How in hell can anyone help you with something that
> vague.
OS, MB, processor and "no life in computer" is "vague"?
>> What is so terribly fricken "old" with this system?
>
> An ASUS P4P800 / 1GB P4 if pretty damned old!
Why, your knowledge of computers pertains only to latest mother boards?
An honest position on your part would be: "I don't really know how to
diagnose this problem"
>> Looks like my best bet to get some coherent intelligent advice is to
>> contact some clowns at the local circus.
>
> Run along, you won't be missed.
Who the fuck are you to appoint yourself as some kind of a Fuerer of this
newsgroup? Go to hell. I'm not going anywhere.
Valentin
"Sinner" <sin...@gatesofhell.org> wrote in message
news:Ec-dncEvxv0eLlXY...@adelphia.com...
>
> "Valentin" <laban...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:juidnT7nr6QINVXY...@adelphia.com...
>> To "doctors" Sinner and Desserten,
>> could you be more specific as to your diagnose "too old, to weak"?
>> What is so terribly fricken "old" with this system?
>> Looks like my best bet to get some coherent intelligent advice is to
>> contact some clowns at the local circus.
>>
>
>
> The latest review I found was 2.5 years old. That means the board is
> pretty much obsolete.
It decided to die because it's "obsolete"?
You've only got a 1Ghz processor in it, another indication
Actually I made a mistake: the processor is 3 GHz, but even if it was 1GHz,
would it "die because of of its age", or even worse - finish off the
"obsolete MB"?
> of it's age. If the mobo is bad, you gotta replace it anyway.
That is rather obvious. But you have actually no knowledge how to diagnose
if it's a bad MB, short of taking it out and replacing it with a different
one, do you?
If it's not,
> why try to upgrade an obsolete system.
Components break down not because they are "obsolete".
The _newest_ MB, processor or any component can stop working, because it's
the nature of mass produced items.
To explain away any malfunction of electronic components as "obsolete" is,
to put it mildly, not very smart.
> But, you just run along and get your clown advice, 'cause you won't be
> seen on my desktop again.
Same to you, fella. Your mediocrity ("two -years old, therefore obsolete")
is certainly no reason to act as a knowledgeble guru or as a star of this
newsgroup.
Smoker
and title wattages are very misleading. There are 300 watt units that are
much better than 600 watt ones for instance. Learn what the writing on the
label on the side of it means and what you need for the hardware you have.
Your hard drive could have died. Try a different one that works. Check all
your cable connections inside and out of the case. Maybe your RAM got fried.
Check your BIOS settings if you can or reset the CMOS settings by removing
the watch battery on the mobo for a few seconds then replace it or go to
Radio Shack and buy a good one for $3. Do your fans spin when you have the
power on? Doesn't take much to run them, 3 to 5 watts. Will your monitor
work?
Valentin
"Smoker" <bill...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:V4ednW1U6s5fVFXY...@comcast.com...
Thanks for replying, Smoker.
Here's some of the thinks done and observed
1. Replaced 500W power supply with 300W
2.Tried my working "clone drive"
3. Reset the BIOS setting with jumpers
4. Can't check the BIOS, cuz computer doesn't start up
5. Checked and double-checked all cables and connections
6. The fans don't spin, the monitor shows "no signal"
7. The battery shows about 3 Volts. According to some info on the Web it
should be 4-7 Volts. That's what I will do next: go out and buy a new
battery.
Should I have any success at all with anything, I will post the results.
Thanks again!
Keith nuttle
and cpu power. It is rarely cost effective to repair an old computer
I recently bought a new laptop that cost about $1000. It has a intel
core 2 duo process 1.7 mHz, 2mg L2 cache, and 1 mb of memory, and 120
gb drive. I came loaded with Windows MCE, with a free upgrade to Vista.
It has a webcam, memory card slots, and more trinkets. If I were to have
bought a new desktop I could have paid half for a similar machine.
If repaired
A new disk cost about 100$
A new Mother board about $200
A new power supple cost less than $100.
(There may be some discussion on my price estimates)
Plus the cost of labor if you have a computer store do the work.
Plus the hassle of repair and the lose of the machine as you trouble
shoot the problem.
If you have to replace the disk you are going to have to reestablish
your software environment.
The point is that you can dump 10 to 50% of the price of a new computer
into you old machine and still have an old computer. Even after the
initial repair there, is still the possibility of something else failing.
--
Keith Nuttle
3110 Marquette Court
Indianapolis, IN 46268
317-802-0699
Tim Fairchild
I was able to see Valentin say:
Try and get a minimum system running. Unplug anything you don't need, from
MB and PSU and get down to MB and video and see if you can get a bios. This
will eliminate bad drives, pci cards, anything not PSU/CPU/MB.
Remove/swap/add video card. They are an item likely to fail. Try any video
you can get to get a bios screen.
Try PSU. They are likely to fail.
After that you are left to MB and CPU swaps. MB can go bad, but less likely
than the rest. CPU would be the last thing likely.
Repair is not a big issue on older PC's. You can get s/h parts for free to
low $. I recently got 2.4 gig P4/MB/512 ram for free. It's older hardware,
sure, but still more than enough for normal use with XP or linux or
whatever. Okay, so maybe not Vista, but so what.
Old machines don't 'just get old and die'. Some bits fail from time to time.
The only machines I have here that are getting 'past it' are the P166s and
they've been upgraded to P2s and P3s on the servers and routers and print
servers, etc.
tim
--
Tim Fairchild - Queensland Australia
Mandriva Linux release 2007.0 (Official) for x86_64
Linux 2.6.20 x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 2800+ GNU/Linux
NVRM version: NVIDIA UNIX x86_64 Kernel Module 1.0-9746
Smoker
is caput and think so anyhow. If it doesn't spin you know the PSU is no
good.
If you have a drive with your backups on it don't risk using it as an
experiment. WD 250GB drives go on sale all the time for only $50 AR (see
Tiger Direct, Circuit City, Newegg, CompUSA, etc.).
If your machine doesn't boot and no signal from your monitor it's the mobo
or PSU. What else could it be? (Ok, maybe a bad CPU.) A bad VGA card
shouldn't keep your machine from booting.
Good power supplies don't cost a fortune anymore. Read user reviews first
before deciding on buying anything. If you have to buy something new to keep
your older rig going try to future-proof yourself where feasible. Some
mobos are made with two sockets so you can use the old and upgrade later.
Get a SATA 2 3GB/sec drive and a $10 USB adapter instead of an IDE. If your
RAM is burnt see if DDR 2 is backward compatible with your setup.
My neighbor is using a 1997 Compaq machine. For $200 (because she needs a
new case in addition to everything else) I can upgrade her to near state of
the art.
For a quick fix you might find a refurbished Dell at a local mom and pop
shop for under $200, ready to take home, put your hard drive in and be up
and running.
w_tom
> ....it's' a small disaster!
> After a year of service, without any provocation, in an idle state it just
> went quiet. The only sign of life was and still is a green onboard LED.
> still no change.
> What's next: the mother board, processor? Any ideas?
No reason (yet) to replace the power supply or anything else. A 3.5
digit multimeter - a tool so ubiquitous and so simple as to be sold
even in K-mart - will provide answers in but two minutes.
First measurement is the purple wire from power supply to
motherboard. Black probe attached to chassis and red probe contacts
inside nylon connector body. Measure DC volts. That number must
exceed 4.87.
Next measure green wire. That voltage must be more than 2 volts
before switch is pressed and drop to well below 0.8 volts when switch
is pressed.
Next is gray wire that must rise well above 2.4 volts within but
seconds of pressing power switch.
And finally, what happens on one of orange, red, and yellow wires
when and after switch is pressed. Each must rise within a second and
then remain above 3.23, 4.87, and 11.7 volts. Any one that does not
move - that too is a valuable fact.
Find the suspect. Posting those numbers here would provide
additional useful information. Once that failure is found, follow it
to the suspect - long before replacing or disconnecting anything.
Something is replaced failure was identified. Avoid wild speculation
- also called shotgunning.
Meanwhile, it is a perfectly good computer worth fixing - to those
whose vanity is not defined by the size of their Megahertz. Instead
get the meter. Define a suspect. Solve it right the first time AND
learn why the failure has happened.
Valentin
I sure appreciate the constructive input of Smoker, Tim Fairchild and yours.
I find your input to be the most interesting because ir brings me closer to
pinpointing the real culprit. So tomorow I shall start mesuring the voltages
with my old but dependable Micronta tester.
You see, I bought my first 486 computer about 10 years ago, but since then I
have built several by myself. Primarily because it's a challenge, it's
interesting, and gives you a sense of accomplishment. I have built a
Pentium, (3 )Pentium III's, and (3) P4's, one of which temporarily is in a
state of coma.
So the challange here is to find the REAL reason, without getting paranoid
about the cost of replacement parts.
This is why your input is interesting, because it's kind of "scientific".
Anybody can run out and buy a new computer or start replacing parts by
trial-and-error method. But are they having fun? :-)
"w_tom" <w_t...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:1170805404.7...@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Boris Mohar
wrote:
If it is any consolation I had same thing happen to me with the same board.
I just upgraded.
Regards,
Boris Mohar
Got Knock? - see:
Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things) http://www.viatrack.ca
void _-void-_ in the obvious place
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Tim Fairchild
I was able to see Valentin say:
> Hi,
> I sure appreciate the constructive input of Smoker, Tim Fairchild and
> yours. I find your input to be the most interesting because ir brings me
> closer to pinpointing the real culprit. So tomorow I shall start mesuring
> the voltages with my old but dependable Micronta tester.
> You see, I bought my first 486 computer about 10 years ago, but since then
> I have built several by myself. Primarily because it's a challenge, it's
> interesting, and gives you a sense of accomplishment. I have built a
> Pentium, (3 )Pentium III's, and (3) P4's, one of which temporarily is in a
> state of coma.
> So the challange here is to find the REAL reason, without getting paranoid
> about the cost of replacement parts.
> This is why your input is interesting, because it's kind of "scientific".
> Anybody can run out and buy a new computer or start replacing parts by
> trial-and-error method. But are they having fun? :-)
I wasn't sure what resources you had there :) The suggestion to test
voltages is a good one, tho sometimes to can have issues 'switching it on'
without a MB connection. I tend to have lots of parts laying around, so
find it just as quick to swap parts and then figure out what's wrong with
the non-functional part.
But hopefully with the other suggestions you'll figure it out :)
The machine is certainly good enough to be worth a bit of effort...
Valentin
"Boris Mohar" <borism_...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:mfcis21asec518bum...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 08:29:04 -0500, "Valentin" <laban...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>....it's' a small disaster!
>>After a year of service, without any provocation, in an idle state it just
>>went quiet. The only sign of life was and still is a green onboard LED.
>>Suspect number one was the power supply. Replaced with a different one:
>>still no change.
>>What's next: the mother board, processor? Any ideas?
>>
>>OS: Windows XP Home
>>MB: Asus P4P800-E
>>Processor: Intel P4 - 1GHz
>>Memory: 1 GB
>
> If it is any consolation I had same thing happen to me with the same
> board.
> I just upgraded.
No real consolation. But it would be interesting to hear what action did you
take if any.
Sinner
>
> No reason (yet) to replace the power supply or anything else. A 3.5
> digit multimeter - a tool so ubiquitous and so simple as to be sold
> even in K-mart - will provide answers in but two minutes.
>
> First measurement is the purple wire from power supply to
> motherboard. Black probe attached to chassis and red probe contacts
> inside nylon connector body. Measure DC volts. That number must
> exceed 4.87.
>
So, 50 VDC falls within your parameters, but wouldn't be a good thing.
Telling people, untrained people, to root around in a hot electrical circuit
is tantamount to giving a two year old a paper-clip and a wall outlet to
play with. Power supplies are no more expensive than multimeters and just
about as frequently used, for the average Joe. Leave voltage testing to the
bench techs, and save a life, your own.
Tim Fairchild
Well, the HT tends to be inside the PSU and the outputs are 3-12v, so
shouldn't be an issue. I'm sure he has a safety switch in his house
anyway ;)
Damian
> Due to the clearing effect of the killfile
> I was able to see Sinner say:
>
>>
>> "w_tom" <w_t...@usa.net> wrote in message
>> news:1170805404.7...@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Feb 6, 8:29 am, "Valentin" <labander...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> No reason (yet) to replace the power supply or anything else. A
>>> 3.5 digit multimeter - a tool so ubiquitous and so simple as to be
>>> sold even in K-mart - will provide answers in but two minutes.
>>>
>>> First measurement is the purple wire from power supply to
>>> motherboard. Black probe attached to chassis and red probe contacts
>>> inside nylon connector body. Measure DC volts. That number must
>>> exceed 4.87.
>>>
>>
>> So, 50 VDC falls within your parameters, but wouldn't be a good
>> thing. Telling people, untrained people, to root around in a hot
>> electrical circuit is tantamount to giving a two year old a
>> paper-clip and a wall outlet to
>> play with. Power supplies are no more expensive than multimeters
>> and just about as frequently used, for the average Joe. Leave
>> voltage testing to the bench techs, and save a life, your own.
>
> Well, the HT tends to be inside the PSU and the outputs are 3-12v, so
> shouldn't be an issue. I'm sure he has a safety switch in his house
> anyway ;)
Don't be. They are quite rare where he lives.
Damian
> "Boris Mohar" <borism_...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:mfcis21asec518bum...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 08:29:04 -0500, "Valentin"
>> <laban...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ....it's' a small disaster!
>>> After a year of service, without any provocation, in an idle state
>>> it just went quiet. The only sign of life was and still is a green
>>> onboard LED. Suspect number one was the power supply. Replaced with
>>> a different one: still no change.
>>> What's next: the mother board, processor? Any ideas?
>>>
>>> OS: Windows XP Home
>>> MB: Asus P4P800-E
>>> Processor: Intel P4 - 1GHz
>>> Memory: 1 GB
>>
>> If it is any consolation I had same thing happen to me with the same
>> board.
>>
>
> did you take if any.
He already posted that information:
* I just upgraded.*
...which is what most of us would have done with 4+ y/o hardware.
Tim Fairchild
Quite rare where I live too, hence the winky :)
Tim Fairchild
I was able to see Damian say:
> Valentin wrote:
If it was my main and only machine I might. Be a good excuse to upgrade. But
I run up to 8 desktops in the house plus a couple of servers, so I don't
tend to do an upgrade every time there's a simple hardware failure :)
Valentin
> Find the suspect. Posting those numbers here would provide
> additional useful information. Once that failure is found, follow it
> to the suspect - long before replacing or disconnecting anything.
Hi,
I made 3 tests:
1) The original setup: 500W PSU and Asus P4P800-E
2) 300W PSU and Asus P4P800-E as a PSU comparison
3) 300W PSU and Intel D815EEA (PIII CPU) to prove that PSU is good.
TEST #1: (Original setup)
a) Testing power connector only:
Purple wire: 5.04 V
Green 3.88
Grey 0.00
Orange 0.00
Red 0.00
Yellow 0.45
b) Testing connector plugged in, power switch not pressed:
Purple 1.14 - 1.59 * numbers keep changing
Green 1.44 - 1.52*
Grey 0.03 - 0.04*
Orange 0.00
Red 0.07
Yellow 0.43
c) Testing by pressing the power switch (computer doesn't start)
All 6 wires show exactly the same results as in the test above.
During the tests the onboard LED is _pulsating_ continuously.
TEST #2 with different PSU (300W)
a)Testing power connector only:
Purple wire: 5.06
Green 4.73
Grey 0.00
Orange 0.00
Red 0.00
Yellow 0.06
b)Testing connector plugged in, power switch not pressed:
Purple 3.27-3.30 * numbers keep changing
Green 3.28
Grey -0.01
Orange 0.00
Red 0.11
Yellow 0.05
c) Testing by pressing the power switch (computer doesn't start). All 6
wires show exactly the same results as in the test above.
But unlike in the test #1 the onboard LED DOES NOT pulsate: it is solid
green.
TEST #3: 300W PSU and Intel D815EEA (PIII CPU)
a)Testing power connector only:
Purple wire: 5.06
Green 4.74
Grey 0.00
Orange 0.00
Red 0.00
Yellow 0.00
b)Testing connector plugged in, power switch not pressed:
Purple wire: 5.06
Green 4.73
Grey 0.02
Orange 0.02
Red 0.02
Yellow 0.06
c) Testing by pressing the power switch, computer starts
Purple wire: 5.05
Green 0.01
Grey 5.05
Orange 5.08
Red 5.08
Yellow 12.14
This test seems to prove that the PSU in the original setup (TEST #1) is not
faulty, but rather the system board. It may be still under warranty (less
than a year in use).
Can we eliminate the CPU as another suspect. What do you think?
Thanks.
Valentin
Who are the "most of us", councelor? :-)
w_tom
> ...
> This test seems to prove that the PSU in the original setup (TEST #1) is not
> faulty, but rather the system board. It may be still under warranty (less
> than a year in use).
> Can we eliminate the CPU as another suspect. What do you think?
> Thanks.
Your test #3 orange wire voltage is wrong - too high - probably a
typo.
Yes it looks like the power supply controller (or peripherals that
are also using the purple wire voltage +5VSB) are shorting out power
supply. IOW remove any items that may also cause a computer power up
(modem, NIC, keyboard, mouse, etc) to see if +5VSB rises back up to
five volts - to eliminate them as a reason for the short.
Of course, power supply AC power cord must be disconnected before
making any connections or disconnections. Purple wire (+5VSB) must
have zero voltage before making any hardware changes; else hardware
damage can result.
But yes, it appears motherboard power supply controller is
defective. One can follow +5VSB traces to see what is in that circuit
and maybe identify the shorting component or metal fragment. With
more experience, one can use meter readings to identify and sometimes
replace the $1 (retail) part that has failed. My most likely suspect
is an electrolytic bypass capacitor.
CPU is not involved with that circuit. Rarely is a CPU damaged.
CPU is even isolated by a second (adjacent) power supply that changes
voltages from the main power supply. CPUs are some of the most robust
semiconductors inside a computer. And +5VSB does not connect to CPU.
CPU simply converses with power supply controller - no other
connections.
Demonstrated is how problems can be found quickly AND where / why
the failure exists. Shotgunning never provides such information.
One final point. Use the same meter readings on red, orange, and
yellow wires after hardware is replaced and when multitasking to all
peripherals (maximum power supply load). If those meter readings are
above minimum values, then power supply is stable and sufficient for
the new load.
Sinner
"Gerry Atrick" <Gerry...@no-email.com> wrote in message
news:qolos2h4iqa09gq4l...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2007 12:02:05 -0500, "Valentin"
> <laban...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> The Newsgroups are full of assholes.
> Use your kill filters....
>
You got that right, moron. The subject is so far off topic for this
newsgroup that only the crudest of low-lifes wouldn't see that. I've taken
your advice and you won't be gracing my screensaver protected monitor again.
Valentin
> As far as your problem, I'd begin by trying to boot the computer with
> a bootable DOS floppy. If it boots to Dos, then you know the
> motherboard, power supply and CPU, video card, monitor are all
> working. If it dont boot, one of the above are dead.
Thanks for your interest, friend.
It has been already established that that's "dead" is the motherboad.
I'll explain this in a post to "w_tom", who gave me invaluable advice on how
to test voltages with a digital volt meter.
Valentin
> On Feb 8, 12:03 am, "Valentin" <labander...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>> This test seems to prove that the PSU in the original setup (TEST #1) is
>> not
>> faulty, but rather the system board. It may be still under warranty (less
>> than a year in use).
>> Can we eliminate the CPU as another suspect. What do you think?
>> Thanks.
>
> Your test #3 orange wire voltage is wrong - too high - probably a
> typo.
To be sure I retested this wire again. At startup it varies between 23 and
31 V, but after Windows opens up completely, the voltage stabilizes at 12.4
Volts. I don't know why, maybe because this particular test was done using
Pentium III board and 300W PSU, the purpose of the test being to see if the
PSU is healthy.
> Yes it looks like the power supply controller (or peripherals that
> are also using the purple wire voltage +5VSB) are shorting out power
> supply. IOW remove any items that may also cause a computer power up
> (modem, NIC, keyboard, mouse, etc) to see if +5VSB rises back up to
> five volts - to eliminate them as a reason for the short.
>
> Of course, power supply AC power cord must be disconnected before
> making any connections or disconnections. Purple wire (+5VSB) must
> have zero voltage before making any hardware changes; else hardware
> damage can result.
>
> But yes, it appears motherboard power supply controller is
> defective. One can follow +5VSB traces to see what is in that circuit
> and maybe identify the shorting component or metal fragment. With
> more experience, one can use meter readings to identify and sometimes
> replace the $1 (retail) part that has failed. My most likely suspect
> is an electrolytic bypass capacitor.
I wish I had the time to get involved into learning how to trace defective
components. I readily admit my incompetence in this area. Soldering I
understand is an art in itself.
This time I took the chicken's way out, got in touch with Asus, they gave me
an RMA, and the mobo is already on its way.
Within 10-14 days I should receive a replacement.
> CPU is not involved with that circuit. Rarely is a CPU
That's good news indeed.
> Demonstrated is how problems can be found quickly AND where / why
> the failure exists. Shotgunning never provides such information.
>
> One final point. Use the same meter readings on red, orange, and
> yellow wires after hardware is replaced and when multitasking to all
> peripherals (maximum power supply load). If those meter readings are
> above minimum values, then power supply is stable and sufficient for
> the new load.
Your input in this particular problem is greatly appreciated. I did buy a
digital multimeter (Radio Shack $20) and it's so easy to use. At first I
didn't know how to measure with the power connector plugged into mobo, short
of stripping some of the insulation on the wires to be tessted, but then - a
light went on: a 6" long copper wire attached tol the + probe which could be
inserted into the TOP portion of power connector.
I'm sure other people have benefitted from your very different approach to
analizing computer problems.
Thanks again!
Valentin
> On Feb 8, 12:03 am, "Valentin" <labander...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Your test #3 orange wire voltage is wrong - too high - probably a
> typo.
In my previous post I really created a HUGE typo.
I wrote: "At startup it varies between 23 and
31 V"
It should have been: at startup it varies between 12.23 and
12.31 V, but after Windows opens up completely, the voltage stabilizes at
12.4 V.
Sorry.
w_tom
> I did buy a digital multimeter (Radio Shack $20) and it's so easy to
> use. At first I didn't know how to measure with the power connector
> plugged into mobo, short of stripping some of the insulation on the
> wires to be tessted, but then - a light went on: a 6" long copper
> wire attached tol the + probe which could be inserted into the TOP
> portion of power connector. I'm sure other people have benefitted
> from your very different approach to analizing computer problems.
Demonstrated was how professionals did analysis and repair even back
in the late 1960s when we fixed disk drives and mini computers. The
fact that the technique is 'new' only demonstrates how much technical
knowledge has been lost in the past 20 years. I only demonstrated how
we even diagnosed satellite hardware - back when satellites were so
much simpler - and when we had to solve problems both quickly and the
first time.
Depending on power supply design, 5 volt and 12 volt numbers are
interrelated. For example, an increase load on the five volts can
cause the 12 volts to increase - and visa versa. That might explain
why numbers vary. Also power demands of the CPU can vary depending on
CPU machine code being executed. Some instruction combinations can
cause CPU to consume more current.
relic
>
> The Newsgroups are full of assholes.
> Use your kill filters....
Agreed!
*plonk*
Rebecca
"w_tom" has never given any useful advice; all he can suggest is testing the
PS Voltages. You must be as big an idiot as him to take his advice while
ignoring the others who got it right.
Rebecca
All who have responded to your post, except for w_tom, of course. Have you
figured out yet that his "help" hasn't aided you in fixing your problem?
Valentin
"Rebecca" <nos...@godlikebuthumble.net> wrote in message
news:2007020918041...@mwinf6309.orange.nl...
Agreed!
*plonk*
RăvNsfăn Ž
It may just be me but I got the impression that the uniqueness of w_tom's
approach was more the point of interest for Valentin. He may eventually end
up with your conclusion but as he said... if he doesn't try it what fun is
it?
He's obviously a hands on guy, likes to tinker and who knows... one day he
may fry himself, but he has an insatiable hands on desire to know things and
I admire that and his grip on his own principles in the face of all the
negativity displayed over w_tom's process. I certainly found that process
immensely interesting, but having said that I personally would leave that
sort of thing to those more knowledgeable. That is my preference. You have
yours... etc.
Drew
--
RävNsfän ®
Valentin
"R?vNsf?n ў" <dustyl...@ravens2000.org> wrote in message
news:45cd59cf$0$6831$b426...@news.qis.net...
You are quite correct: his approach was unique and differed significantly
from that of the noisy 'upgrade faction' in this newsgroup. I can value your
polite attempt to defend the 'freedom of the free speech' but you may be
wasting your time on this _very unfair_ individual, who jumped into the fray
at the last minute, calling w_tom an idiot and me by association.
One cannot discuss _anything_ with a 'motorcycle mama' type, who uses
obscenities (check her old posts) and hysterics as her best arguments. This
is why she's the only one whom I 'plunked' so far, a practice I don't really
use often, because basically it's a way of cowards and their 'goldplated
desktops', who prefer to duck rather than fight. Problem is, I refuse to
fight with hysterical broads.
He may eventually end
> up with your conclusion but as he said... if he doesn't try it what fun is
> it?
She had no conclusions to offer, except a wrong one in a form of a question:
" have you figured out yet that his "help" hasn't aided you in fixing your
problem?"
But his "help" DID aid me in fixing my problem!!!
After conducting the voltage tests, I was able to determine that the mobo
was indeed bad, and as a result I'm getting a replacement from Asus. No
lengthy swapping of components, no guessing and no 'shotgunning'.
As far as the Asus motherboard itself: I have built 2 computers with this
board around the same time a year ago. So one of them died: big deal, 'old,
outdated'? What I have to say to the 'update freaks' is this: I decide
myself when and what to upgrade. My computers run excellent, are
lighning-fast, so your arguments are invalid. I don't care how many of you
are out there: gang tactics will not work.
> He's obviously a hands on guy, likes to tinker and who knows... one day he
> may fry himself,
Not a chance. You see, the frequent posters, who think of themselves as
'helpers' and of any poster as a 'hand-in-hat-fool', make a common mistake:
they _assume_ too much.
Just because Herr Sinner is scared of electricity, doesn't mean everybody is
"untrained" and anything under 12V DC will 'fry' you.
If he asked me, I would tell him that my father was an electrical engineer
who taught me at age 12 how to build my first radio. I had to wind my own
transformer, build a chassis, mount all the components etc. etc. And the
current was 220V AC. :-)
but he has an insatiable hands on desire to know things and
> I admire that and his grip on his own principles in the face of all the
> negativity displayed over w_tom's process.
I immediately had respect for w_tom, because having been exposed to my
father's hobby (radios) I could see that he knows what he's talking about.
Anybody who claims he knows 'everything about computers' can be considered a
pompous fool. Some people know a lot about software and very little about
the hardware, and vice versa. But in my case I had to learn about both all
by myself, as a result I know a fraction about computing with an ocean of
information left to explore.
An old saying comes to my mind: "a wise man like to learn, a fool - to
teach". Everyone can take their pick.
Another thing is 'group profile'. Anybody posting a question on motorcyles
may or may not get a response. If that happened and the post was interesting
enough, I probably would reply, because I also like motorcycles.
Not Herr Sinner: he would utter something using his gestapo finesse:
"You got that right, moron. The subject is so far off topic for this
newsgroup that only the crudest of low-lifes wouldn't see that. I've taken
your advice and you won't be gracing my screensaver protected monitor
again".
I ask: what harm is done to anybody posting 'off-topic'?
It's so easy to simply ignore such posts, isn't it?
I certainly found that process
> immensely interesting, but having said that I personally would leave that
> sort of thing to those more knowledgeable.
Exactly. This is why I would not venture into finding bad capacitors or
resistors: not enough knowledge in electronics.
Plus replacing, unsoldering/soldering tiny detail on a printed circuit is
fine art in itself requiring special tools.
To sum it all up: it was not a bad discussion. It was beneficial to me
personally: with w_tom's help the problem was solved, the problem being:
"why did computer die without warning".
Answer: a bad motherboard. The computer did not die "of old age" as the
'update faction" claimed, only one important component (the motherboard)
malfunctioned, which is an arrangement of hundreds of electronic components,
of which one has failed. No comparison to passing away of one clown's dear
grandmother. :-)
The 'upgrade' faction with their infantile premise 'the newer - the better'
did not win, and probably did not learn anything new. Democracy in action!
> That is my preference. You have yours... etc.
I'll fight for your right to have your preferences if you fight for mine.
:-)
Regards,
Valentin
>
> Drew
> --
> RДvNsfДn ў
>
>
McKinley Morganfield
> ....it's' a small disaster!
> After a year of service, without any provocation, in an idle state it
> just went quiet. The only sign of life was and still is a green onboard
> LED.
> Suspect number one was the power supply. Replaced with a different one:
> still no change.
> What's next: the mother board, processor? Any ideas?
>
> OS: Windows XP Home
> MB: Asus P4P800-E
> Processor: Intel P4 - 1GHz
> Memory: 1 GB
>
Damian
> "R?vNsf?n ®" <dustyl...@ravens2000.org> wrote in message
You were told you needed a new motherboard right away. How did delaying it
for days help exactly?
Damian
Google w_toms frequent "check your power supply voltages" replies.
Now read the and look for someone, anyone, saying that it helped them fix
their problem... other than this idiot Valentin of course.
Valentin
"Damian" <nos...@rabid-dog.net> wrote in message news:45ce16f4$0$97263
> You were told you needed a new motherboard right away. How did delaying it
> for days help exactly?
I like your "you were told". Sounds almost like "you were ordered". Yeah,
don't hold your breath to see clicking my heels.
1.What I was actually told is that besides motherboard everything else was
old and "obsolete". I dare you to find a single persons quote stating that
the motherboard was defective, providing even a small _proof_ that this is
the case.
Since you're the one who opened his mouth about "you were told", you should
have no trouble finding such a quote.
2. The offered suggestions, even by people who meant well, were all in the
area of 'try this and try that'. There was even one to start the computer
with a DOS floppy. This is after I clearly explained that the computer does
not start.
3. How did the delaying help?
Listen carefully, I will do it very slowly for you, perhaps you can
understand: it helped me to isolate the EXACT reason for malfunction. After
all Asus will not send me a replacement board, just because you and your
'upgrade' friends _think_ it's 'obsolete'. They require proof. I had that
proof in my hands when I made the call to get an RMA.
What kind of proof did I have? The voltage test results as suggested by
w_tom. Like it or not, he knows this particular area, most of you don't. I
was willing to _learn_ something new, whereas you seem to be into
'teaching'. ;-)
Sorry, but I didn't learn anything useful from you.
4. Please don't forget to get that person's quote, who supposedly told me
right away that the motherboard was defective. Failure to do so will put you
straight into a category of common liers.
Cheers,
Valentin
Valentin
> Google w_toms frequent "check your power supply voltages" replies.
> Now read the and look for someone, anyone, saying that it helped them fix
> their problem
Oh, I see: besides "all of us" (which you failed to answer when I asked you)
you are also a statistics expert?
Your stance is that of a pathetic person: instead of rising up to a person's
level (w_toms), you're trying so desperately to pull him down to your
level.
... other than this idiot Valentin of course.
If I hear one more time you putting down _anybody_ using your gang's
favorite adjective, you may be my #2 candidate to join the motorcylce mama
in that dark pit, reserved by me for absolutely hopeless cases.
Remember: do not use that bad word. Even if you had no family to bring you
up properly, and grew up in an asylum. Don't!
Damian
Valentin, go fuck yourself.
relic
IAWTP
w_tom
> You were told you needed a new motherboard right away. How did delaying it
> for days help exactly?
We were also told that Saddam had WMDs using the same logic. Do you
believe everything proclaimed? Everything in his computer - not just
the motherboard - was blamed by using speculation.
Especially important for analysis are numbers. Where were numbers
that said motherboard (and disk drive, and memory, and video
controller, and power supply) were defective? All were blamed - not
just the motherboard. All were blamed without reasons why. Making
such declarations without facts is also why propaganda works.
It is called shotgunning. Saddam should have WMDs; therefore he
must have WMDs? It could be video controller; therefore video
controller also caused computer death? Useful post also says why - and
without using obscenities and hysterics.
Damian - according to your post, we should have also replaced
memory, CMOS battery, video controller, CD-Rom, and power supply.
Each were also accused along with the motherboard. Should he have
replaced everything? Speculation listed most everything inside the
computer as defective. As said in CSI - follow the evidence - which
is why a multimeter is used. Which is how even late 1960 computers
were repaired faster and the first time. In but two minutes, without
speculation, and without swapping anything, a suspect was immediately
identified. As the Japanese say, "Don't work harder; work smarter."
First we learned why from the numbers. Follow the evidence.
Fight the concept or learn how things technical were solved even
generations ago. Today, those same many $hundred meters now sell for
only $20 even in K-mart. Because simple diagnostic tools are so
ubiquitous. Demonstrated is a diagnostic technique lost when too
many computer 'experts' do not even have basic electrical training,
must resort to shotgunning, and know how to use obscenities and
hysterics as if technical fact.
Rebecca
> On Feb 10, 2:03 pm, "Damian" <nos...@rabid-dog.net> wrote:
>> You were told you needed a new motherboard right away. How did
>> delaying it for days help exactly?
>
> We were also told that Saddam had WMDs using the same logic.
He did.
<snip after first logic error>
Sinner
> w_tom wrote:
>> On Feb 10, 2:03 pm, "Damian" <nos...@rabid-dog.net> wrote:
>>> You were told you needed a new motherboard right away. How did
>>> delaying it for days help exactly?
>>
>> We were also told that Saddam had WMDs using the same logic.
>
and yet you're willing to believe there is a god that gave his only begotten
son for your sins. What a fool!
Valentin
> Valentin, go fuck yourself.
I suppose this is your strongest argument.
However the time has come to end your participation in this or any other
discussion that I see on *my* monitor.
The discussion is finished, the problem solved, so in order to terminate
the 'afterbirth' (you don't mind the name Afterbirth, do you?) you are going
to that dark place of no return.
Say hello to the Motorcycle Mama.
*plonk*
Valentin
very entertaining, especially the part about your 'old pentium 266' and what
you did with it.
Could you do me a favor and tell me in one sentence or less:
why did you decide to tell *me* the story?
"Gerry Atrick" <Gerry...@no-email.com> wrote in message
news:fross297cmrgurij9...@4ax.com...
> There is a place nearby that takes in old computers for recycling.
> It's not allowed that computers go to landfills because of the lead
> solder and other toxic materials in them. They rip them apart and
> send off the boards to be melted down for the metals or whatever they
> do with them. The place sells to the public any monitors, printers,
> modems and other external devices that test ok They also sell video &
> sound cards, memory, other cards, harddrives, floppy and cd drives.
> They test the drives but not the cards. Everything can be returned
> within 2 weeks if it dont work. They also have a lot of cases, cables
> and CPUs and power supplies to sell. I asked them if they sold
> motherboards, and they said they will not sell them, because they are
> the most common thing to go bad in any computer. They do however test
> all computers that come in, and if the computer itself works, but
> needs a harddrive or video card or something like that, they install
> another drive or whatever it needs and sell the complete working
> computer, or a stripped down version without drives.
>
> Since I am a regular customer of theirs, they said they would GIVE me
> a motherboard if I wanted, and if it worked, I could keep it, if not
> they wanted it returned. The one I got worked fine. I am using it
> now, along with the CPU, cpu fan, memory, harddrive, and cd drive. I
> got from them. So aside from the case and power supply and some
> cables and floppy drive (which I had), this computer is made from all
> their stuff, and it cost very little to build. I also got this
> monitor from them.
>
> I am posting this because it seems that according to them,
> motherboards are the most common item to get bad. My old computer,
> which was a pentium 266 had the motherboard die too. But I got 8
> years use from it before it fried. Since it had the old style case and
> PS, I just scrapped it with that place along with the old monitor that
> was always fading from bright to dark. I saved my individual cards
> and told them that it was not worth testing since I knew the MB was
> dead and the monitor was junk. They said that when they know whats
> wrong, they dont have to waste time testing them, and sent it off for
> recycling right away.
>
> They dont charge to take these things, except monitors, which they
> charge $10 because they have to pay to get rid of the CRTs. Thats
> cheaper than taking them to the local dump where they charge $20.
> to dispose of them.
>
>
Damian
Typical pussy.