Can Ogier channel the one source?
Damien Mc Caughley
Loial had, it was "Humans and the one power". Which in my mind says that not
only humans can channel? Perhaps not ogier as they grow up in groves, any
ideas?
Strandman
"Damien Mc Caughley" <d.mcca...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:935q5c$pgp$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
And if they aren't able to channel, how can they shield their groves from
channeling`?
James King
Strandman <mikael...@c2i.net> wrote in message
news:a7K56.862$1L2....@juliett.dax.net...
rickogooch
> Strandman <mikael...@c2i.net> wrote in message
> news:a7K56.862$1L2....@juliett.dax.net...
> >
> > "Damien Mc Caughley" <d.mcca...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
> > news:935q5c$pgp$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com...
> > > After reading the books again, I came across an interesting book
title
> > that
> > > Loial had, it was "Humans and the one power". Which in my mind
says that
> > not
> > > only humans can channel? Perhaps not ogier as they grow up in
groves,
> any
> > > ideas?
> >
> > And if they aren't able to channel, how can they shield their
groves from
> > channeling`?
> >
> >
capable, and they needed the human men to create the Ways. Plus they're
linked to the steddings. Remember that Thom said 'It's the stedding
makes the Ogier, not the Ogier that makes the steddings.' I think that
the steddings represent another aspect of the Wheel that is linked
solely to the Ogier. Humans have the True Source and Ogier have
steddings, one source for each intelligent species. Since humans aren't
linked to the steddings, when they enter them, they're cut off from the
True Source, just as Ogier are cut off from the steddings when they
leave them. The two, True Source and steddings, are mutually exclusive,
and therefore can't impede upon one another's territory. Evidence of
this can be found in the references to the Longing that the Ogier felt
when they lost the steddings after the Breaking, and the longing that
is described whenever a human channeller enters a stedding, like
they've lost something. Even Perrin felt it. Which leads me to suggest
further that ALL humans are linked to the True Source, it's just that a
few of them are more sensitive to that link, and are able to call power
from it. Also, back on Ogier channelling, the Ogier exhibit abilities
that humans do not, hence they have their own abilities that they draw
from the steddings. Things like the talent for Singing trees, and the
masonry that they're famous for. Not all Ogier can do those things, so
it can be said that my hypothises for humans and the True Source can
also be applied to Ogier and their steddings. It's just that not many
humans have spent the same amount of time inside a stedding as the
Ogier spent outside them, so there's little recorded about humans
experiencing their own Longing. And those that have, have been
exclusively channellers, so it's easilly assumed that it's meerly the
shock of getting cut off from the Source. But as Perrin is said to have
felt like he lost something, I think that all humans who went into a
stedding for long periods would experience the same thing. Anyway, I'm
starting to babel.
Rick
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Damien Mc Caughley
long for the source when they are cut off from it, and none would stay in
the stedding because they cant stand it, as it was mentioned once about the
men that were going mad at the end of the second age. I agree that they are
exclusive from each other, and the only other sentient beings in the wheel
of time are Mydraal (spelling?), trollocs, golam and wolves I suppose. (I am
bound to have left out some!) I think it is fairly safe to say that trollocs
and wolves cannot use the one source or we would have heard of it. Golam can
detect the source but not use it. Mydraal have special powers of their own
but that more likely comes from the Dark Ones power. But then also trollocs
and to a lesser extent mydraal are created from human stocks, so I find it
quite strange that none of these are born with the talent.
shadowki...@yahoo.com
bound to the stedding like they are now in the books. Also, everything
the Ogier do, like the treesinging is unrelated to the One Power, it
says that in the big white expensive book.
rickogooch
Right, which is what I was saying. The Ogier draw power for treesinging
and whatnot from the stedding. Although I don't remember reading that
the Ogier were free of the stedding as they are now. Not saying it
isn't written somewhere, just that I don't remember. If you remember at
least a book reference, I could look it up myself, a chapter or page
reference would be REALLY helpful, but I realize that's probably too
much to ask.
I hadn't thought about wolves, it doesn't really seem like they have
any special abilities besides being able to enter the Wolfdream
(Tel'Aran'Rhiod) pretty much at will. And given that Perrin's guide in
the Wolfdream is the spirit of Hopper, I'd say that that's what they'd
be linked to if anything. Though TAR seems to overlap at least the True
Source a little, though there hasn't been a reference to any Ogier
Dreamers, it's possible. So maybe TAR is like a bridge between the two
sources of power. Maybe, maybe not. As for Trollocs and Myrddrahl, I'd
say that they aren't capable of touching any of those sources, except
TAR if they're physically brought into it by a channeller. My reasoning
is that they're MADE sentients. They were created by Aginor after he
went over to the Shadow by twisting life. Because they're artificial,
my guess would be that the only source of power they'd have would be
the Dark One.
You know, the really scary part is, that all this stuff is just right
off the top of my head. It'd be interesting what I'd come up with if I
actually sat down and pondered any of this.
Rick
shadowki...@yahoo.com
developed from human genes, but i doubt that even if they would be able
to channel, aginor would leave that ability in them(ie. some process
during their making that would prevent the ability to channel maybe).
I'll look for an Ogier reference, but I don't have all the books so it
might take a while for me to find. And even if the Ogier could channel,
they probably wouldn't even know it since most never leave their
stedding and avoid humans. But you really never know, during the AoL,
the dai'shain aiel had some type of singing abilty which was used with
the Ogier and Nym so it's always possible that the Ogier can channel.
YogiDoc90
>> bound to the stedding like they are now in the books.
I have read this too, but this isnt to say that back in the AoL the Ogier didnt
long for the Steddings even if they didnt need to be near them as much as
now....
>It'd be interesting what I'd come up with if I
>actually sat down and pondered any of this.
Rick, the idea of you pondering anything is frightening in its own little way!
HAHAHA J/K
Drew
wseitz
rickogooch wrote:
> I doubt they can channel, it's never been mentioned that they are
> capable, and they needed the human men to create the Ways. Plus they're
> linked to the steddings. Remember that Thom said 'It's the stedding
> makes the Ogier, not the Ogier that makes the steddings.' I think that
> the steddings represent another aspect of the Wheel that is linked
> solely to the Ogier. Humans have the True Source and Ogier have
> steddings, one source for each intelligent species. Since humans aren't
> linked to the steddings, when they enter them, they're cut off from the
> True Source, just as Ogier are cut off from the steddings when they
> leave them. The two, True Source and steddings, are mutually exclusive,
> and therefore can't impede upon one another's territory. Evidence of
> this can be found in the references to the Longing that the Ogier felt
> when they lost the steddings after the Breaking, and the longing that
> is described whenever a human channeller enters a stedding, like
> they've lost something. Even Perrin felt it. Which leads me to suggest
> further that ALL humans are linked to the True Source, it's just that a
> few of them are more sensitive to that link, and are able to call power
> from it.
Perrin, IIRC, is the only human to have a sense of loss. I believe this has
to do with his connection to Tel'Aran'Rhiod. He is an honorary wolf and
they seem to communicate via Tel'Aran'Rhiod. I also think that at some
point they say that steddings don't exist in Tel'Aran'Rhiod. Perrin's loss
seems to be from losing his connection to the dream and not the source. The
link between the Source and TAL, however, is unclear
> Also, back on Ogier channelling, the Ogier exhibit abilities
> that humans do not, hence they have their own abilities that they draw
> from the steddings. Things like the talent for Singing trees, and the
> masonry that they're famous for.
Masonry and horticulture are skills developed over the centuries which
Ogier live. Treesinging is a Talent that humans may have had. It used to be
that what the Ogier call Treesinging was done by Humans (Aiel), Ogier, and
Nym working together. Aiel may still have the gift. Note that adult Aiel
sing nothing but battle marches and funeral dirges perhaps preventing
themselves from developing this ability. The Tuatha'An have intermarried
extensively and perhaps bred the ability out. They are not physically
distinctive like the Aiel.
> Not all Ogier can do those things, so
> it can be said that my hypothises for humans and the True Source can
> also be applied to Ogier and their steddings. It's just that not many
> humans have spent the same amount of time inside a stedding as the
> Ogier spent outside them, so there's little recorded about humans
> experiencing their own Longing. And those that have, have been
> exclusively channellers, so it's easilly assumed that it's meerly the
> shock of getting cut off from the Source. But as Perrin is said to have
> felt like he lost something, I think that all humans who went into a
> stedding for long periods would experience the same thing. Anyway, I'm
> starting to babel.
But there is a city, Far Madding, cut off from the Source and people live
there fine. Also Ogier used to live outside steddings and only started
needing them after the Breaking.
Tim Bruening
Damien Mc Caughley wrote:
> I believe you have drawn some excellent parallels there, humans chanellers
> long for the source when they are cut off from it, and none would stay in
> the stedding because they cant stand it, as it was mentioned once about the
> men that were going mad at the end of the second age. I agree that they are
> exclusive from each other, and the only other sentient beings in the wheel
> of time are Myddraal (spelling?), trollocs, golam and wolves I suppose. (I am
> bound to have left out some!) I think it is fairly safe to say that trollocs
> and wolves cannot use the one source or we would have heard of it. Golam can
> detect the source but not use it. Myddraal have special powers of their own
> but that more likely comes from the Dark Ones power. But then also trollocs
> and to a lesser extent mydraal are created from human stocks, so I find it
> quite strange that none of these are born with the talent.
There's also the Nym, now extinct.
bevell...@earthlink.net
wseitz <wse...@bbn.com> wrote:
>
>
{snip Rick's original comments]
> Perrin, IIRC, is the only human to have a sense of loss. I believe
this has
> to do with his connection to Tel'Aran'Rhiod. He is an honorary wolf
and
> they seem to communicate via Tel'Aran'Rhiod. I also think that at some
> point they say that steddings don't exist in Tel'Aran'Rhiod. Perrin's
loss
> seems to be from losing his connection to the dream and not the
source. The
> link between the Source and TAL, however, is unclear
There have been other mentions besides Perrin's of a sense of loss,
most recently when everyone (fig) goes to Far Madding and enters the
artifical stedding. It works the same way but its fake. Everyone
including non-channelers feels a loss of some kind. Perrin's is unique
and marked out because at the point in the tale he was just beginning
to develop his affinity with the wolves and he feels a loss but its
just RJ foreshadowing.
[snip more Rick]
>
> Masonry and horticulture are skills developed over the centuries which
> Ogier live. Treesinging is a Talent that humans may have had. It used
to be
> that what the Ogier call Treesinging was done by Humans (Aiel),
Ogier, and
> Nym working together. Aiel may still have the gift. Note that adult
Aiel
> sing nothing but battle marches and funeral dirges perhaps preventing
> themselves from developing this ability. The Tuatha'An have
intermarried
> extensively and perhaps bred the ability out. They are not physically
> distinctive like the Aiel.
>
It's never said that Humans *could* Treesing. It's just shown that in
the AoL, the Aiel participated *with* the Nym and Ogier in the
Treesong. Its demonstrated that the Song pulls at people's souls and
makes them feel intense emotions..I doubt they could have stopped
singing even if they wanted to.
[snip Rick and last author]
To me, the True Source sounds just like the definition given for the
Force. Its seems to be part of all living things, yet not all living
things can manipulate it. Esp. with Ep 1 and the upcoming sequels, we
will get a better feel for what the Force is (just what IS a
mitichlorian anyway?!?). There would most certainly be at least a
mention of Ogier channelling if they could and there would be an Ogier
damane somewhere. There are Ogier in Seanchan, they are property of
the Empress as Deathwatch guards and gardeners and such. The Treesong
is probably just one of those abilities that is non-power related like
Wolfbrothers and Min's viewings, just more prevalent in that Age than
in this one. Maybe next Age it will come again and be considered "old
becoming new" like Moiraine regards Perrin or Min.
Bevel Lemelisk
Rursus Siderespector
> After reading the books again, I came across an interesting book
> title that Loial had, it was "Humans and the one power". Which in
> my mind says that not only humans can channel?
In my mind it says nothing. Could be interpreted two ways:
"The mystical one power that only humans can use, and how they
use it"
"Human specific one power usage"
> Perhaps not ogier as they grow up in groves, any ideas?
The steddings anti-OP field protect their groves. If making
groves outside, they use Ogier Song "magic" obviously.
--
Rursus kwath
------ http://hem.passagen.se/rursus/fantasy-index.html ------
Shane
bevell...@earthlink.net wrote:
> In article <3A64A949...@bbn.com>,
> wseitz <wse...@bbn.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> {snip Rick's original comments]
>
> > Perrin, IIRC, is the only human to have a sense of loss. I believe
> this has
> > to do with his connection to Tel'Aran'Rhiod. He is an honorary wolf
> and
> > they seem to communicate via Tel'Aran'Rhiod. I also think that at some
> > point they say that steddings don't exist in Tel'Aran'Rhiod. Perrin's
> loss
> > seems to be from losing his connection to the dream and not the
> source. The
> > link between the Source and TAL, however, is unclear
>
> There have been other mentions besides Perrin's of a sense of loss,
> most recently when everyone (fig) goes to Far Madding and enters the
> artifical stedding. It works the same way but its fake. Everyone
> including non-channelers feels a loss of some kind.
Like who. IIRC, there are no PoV in the Far
Madding chapters from non-channelers.
Luke Winikates
> Damien Mc Caughley wrote:
[possibility of non-human channelers]
>
> There's also the Nym, now extinct.
Until Aviendha has her kids, of course.
Kim Galant
news:nLK96.176$pL5.1...@news1.iquest.net...
Ambrose, Christian
Luke Winikates
> Kim Galant wrote:
> > > Tim Bruening wrote:
> > > > There's also the Nym, now extinct.
> > > Until Aviendha has her kids, of course.
> > Why is it now that we think Avi will have Nym
> > kids ????
> Its a joke. I hope.
Yes, it was a joke. Or, at least, the closest thing to a joke that
I'm capable of producing.
Xelloss
'Tis a joke in reference to stupid trolls posted a month or so ago.
--
=================================
Xelloss Metallium.
Love him or hate him, he's still _there_.
Maccabeus Epimanes
Perhaps Myrdraal are the Trollocs who would be able to channel, if they
were human--that is, Trollocs with the channelling genes active.
--
Maccabeus Epimanes
Hammer of the Light
"It is time for judgement to begin with the House of God." 1 Peter 4:17
talen...@my-deja.com
Kris
Janse Sedwin
Janse
<talen...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:948qvt$r58$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
bevell...@earthlink.net
The proper name for the race of beings that Someshta (the Green Man)
was a part of.
Bevel Lemelisk
Tim Bruening
Luke Winikates wrote:
Since Rand will be the one getting Aviendha pregnant, how can she
produce Nym? Aren't both Rand and Aviendha members of the species Homo
Sapiens?
Bryan Ecker
<3A6969EE...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>:
Well, you see, since Rand had come into contact with The Green Man
early on, which caused a subtle change to his genetic code. Then later
in the Rhuidian tunnel, when the Dragon were fused into his arms, a
less subtle change came over him.
And now all his sperm are green, and two to three times bigger and
faster than they were before.
This also explains why they're so potent.
--
Bryan "Nym-jizz" Ecker | This is the most fun I've ever had
ec...@us.hsanet.net | without being drenched in the
http://www.hsanet.net/user/ecker | blood of my
BAE SYSTEMS | enemies.
Gary Greenbaum
Bryan Ecker wrote:
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in
> <3A6969EE...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>:
> >
> >Luke Winikates wrote:
> >
> >> Tim Bruening wrote:
> >> > Damien Mc Caughley wrote:
> >> [possibility of non-human channelers]
> >> >
> >> > There's also the Nym, now extinct.
> >>
> >> Until Aviendha has her kids, of course.
> >
> >Since Rand will be the one getting Aviendha pregnant, how can she
> >produce Nym? Aren't both Rand and Aviendha members of the species Homo
> >Sapiens?
>
> Well, you see, since Rand had come into contact with The Green Man
> early on, which caused a subtle change to his genetic code. Then later
> in the Rhuidian tunnel, when the Dragon were fused into his arms, a
> less subtle change came over him.
>
> And now all his sperm are green, and two to three times bigger and
> faster than they were before.
>
> This also explains why they're so potent.
Not only that, but the genetic change became dominant when Avi and Rand
went through the gateway to Seanchan. It's strongly implied in the text.
Look in the FAQ, if you don't believe this.
Gary Greenbaum
Meren
*
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*
"YogiDoc90" <yogi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010108141551...@ng-cp1.aol.com...
> > I believe I read once, that before the breaking, the Ogier weren't
> >> bound to the stedding like they are now in the books.
>
> I have read this too, but this isnt to say that back in the AoL the Ogier
didnt
> long for the Steddings even if they didnt need to be near them as much as
> now....
the fields and such flurish. That's when the Tinker's lost song was sung
and such...it talks about that in the Shadow Rising when Rand becomes He Who
Comes With The Dawn. As for the steading...they thought of it fondly but
they did not LONG for it as they do now.
Tim Bruening
detect male channeling. Verin says "Even if they (damane) aren't close
enough to see, one might well feel a woman-or a man, for that
matter-channeling, if care was not taken to keep the Power channeled
small.". However, in later books, I've gotten the impression that
female channelers can't detect male channeling. How can Verin's
statement be true?
bevell...@earthlink.net
doubt that is what Verin meant.
I assume since men can feel women channelling (goose bumps) that women
should have a response as well. At first when Rand would get the bumps
he would think it was just thinking of women channelling that did it.
And as far as I know, we haven't seen the inside of Aes Sedai teaching
Novices and Accepted since the Wonder Girls were at the Tower. Its
pretty much taken as a given that if you were out in the world, you
knew what you are about. So noone has shown the Girls, and
consequently, us what a women feels whan a man channels.
Elayne and Egwene try to teach Rand how to channel when they are in the
Stone of Tear, but when he channels, they feel nothing. I bet this is
because they do not know what they are looking for which makes them
think they can't tell. They were explicitly looking for a corona or
something similar to what happens when a woman channels, *not* a
feeling of cold, or warm or whatever that is internal to them and not
external to Rand.
Bevel Lemelisk
bevell...@earthlink.net
doubt that is what Verin meant.
I assume since men can feel women channelling (goose bumps) that women
should have a response as well. At first when Rand would get the bumps
he would think it was just thinking of women channelling that did it.
And as far as I know, we haven't seen the inside of Aes Sedai teaching
Novices and Accepted since the Wonder Girls were at the Tower. Its
pretty much taken as a given that if you were out in the world, you
knew what you are about. So noone has shown the Girls, and
consequently, us what a women feels whan a man channels.
Elayne and Egwene try to teach Rand how to channel when they are in the
Stone of Tear, but when he channels, they feel nothing. I bet this is
because they do not know what they are looking for which makes them
think they can't tell. They were explicitly looking for a corona or
something similar to what happens when a woman channels, *not* a
feeling of cold, or warm or whatever that is internal to them and not
external to Rand.
Duncan J Macdonald
Since the statement was supposition on Verin's part, truth has no
bearing.
Duncan
--
Duncan J Macdonald -- macdonal...@hq.navy.mil
"Just because you're not paranoid, doesn't mean that they're not out
to get you."
rak...@mindspring.com
<macdonal...@hq.navy.mil> wrote:
>In article <3A6D1AB9...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, Tim Bruening
>said...
>> On page 620 of the paperback The Great Hunt, Verin says that damane can
>> detect male channeling. Verin says "Even if they (damane) aren't close
>> enough to see, one might well feel a woman-or a man, for that
>> matter-channeling, if care was not taken to keep the Power channeled
>> small.". However, in later books, I've gotten the impression that
>> female channelers can't detect male channeling. How can Verin's
>> statement be true?
>>
>
>Since the statement was supposition on Verin's part, truth has no
>bearing.
>
What you said. I'd also think that off-the-cuff remarks like this
from way back when might easily be simple authorial error. RJ is only
human, after all. Unless maybe he's an Ogier, he seems to have
Loial's passion for writing books. In any case, there are other cases
where he's said something early on that he later contradicted.
Considering the length of the series and the development of the world,
it's hardly surprising.
Just me.
--
jabb...@hotmail.com
Yoritomo Jabbrwock * Mantis Clan Navigator *
Sailor * Mercenary * Kolat * Many references
Maccabeus Epimanes
> said...
> > On page 620 of the paperback The Great Hunt, Verin says that damane
can
> > detect male channeling. Verin says "Even if they (damane) aren't
close
> > enough to see, one might well feel a woman-or a man, for that
> > matter-channeling, if care was not taken to keep the Power channeled
> > small.". However, in later books, I've gotten the impression that
> > female channelers can't detect male channeling. How can Verin's
> > statement be true?
> >
>
> Since the statement was supposition on Verin's part, truth has no
> bearing.
More or less.
Anything MIGHT be true. Moreover, Verin knows that there are some
things that can be done with the Power that most or all Aes Sedai don't
know how to do: Compulsion, for instance (though we don't know that
yet). The damane may know a method the Aes Sedai are unaware of; they
may have some mysterious ter'angreal never found in Randland proper;
there may even be male damane (just because we know this isn't true now
doesn't mean Verin knew it then).
--
Maccabeus Epimanes
Hammer of the Light
"It is time for judgement to begin with the House of God." 1 Peter 4:17
morid...@my-deja.com
closer to a dollar). They Nym were a natural non-human race that
resembled tree's somewhat I suppose. They stood taller than Ogier and
were covered with leaves and whatnot. During the Age of Legends, the
participated in the 'singing' with the Ogier and Aiel, though they
didn't sing, instead they danced, and where they danced plants grew. Of
course the last of the Nym(as far as anyone knows) was killed by
Balthamel at the Eye of the World.
"Though unrelated to the One Power, many of them, in the AoL had the
ability to affect living things, especially plants with their songs."
I got that out of the big white book, which i think pretty much tells
you that they do not, nor ever have touched the one power in anyway.
Plus even if they could, they would never know it since most never even
leave the stedding. The Ogier in the deathwatch guard in Seanchan are
NOT owned by the empress, only the human members are. Just thought i'd
point all this stuff out.
Tim Bruening
Later, Rand steals them back and puts the dagger inside the box with the
Horn. The dagger and the Horn spend several months together. Why
wasn't the Horn of Valere contaminated by the taint from the Shadar
Logoth dagger?
Gary Greenbaum
Tim Bruening wrote:
I would suggest that the dagger works differently than radioactivity--
only animate matter is at risk from it, and then only from close contact.
Something placed next to it will not grow "evil".
I would note that Mat's clothes (even his belt!) were returned to him.
They certainly spent time in very close proximity to the dagger. TSR,
20 Visitations, p. 178 of hardcover. That was actually a neat trick
since the said belt had ripped when the AS were healing Mat,
"[w]ith a loud pop of tearing leather, the golden-sheathed dagger rose
from Mat's belt . . ." TSR, 18 Healing 164 of hardcover.
Gary Greenbaum
Maccabeus Epimanes
I don't know if it's ever been suggested, but I think the chest was a
stasis box. Time inside and immediately around was suspended, or
something like that. (Might be why it survived the Eye, too.)
--
Maccabeus Epimanes
Hammer of the Light
"It is time for judgement to begin with the House of God." 1 Peter 4:17
jamie
>I would note that Mat's clothes (even his belt!) were returned to him.
>They certainly spent time in very close proximity to the dagger. TSR,
>20 Visitations, p. 178 of hardcover. That was actually a neat trick
> since the said belt had ripped when the AS were healing Mat,
>"[w]ith a loud pop of tearing leather, the golden-sheathed dagger rose
>from Mat's belt . . ." TSR, 18 Healing 164 of hardcover.
Healing leather is a rare Talent, but not unknown in the Tower. ;-P
--
jamie (mj...@austin.rr.com)
"There's a seeker born every minute."
Janse Sedwin
damaged or not. Hence, the Aes Sedai would give him back everything that
belonged to him, not wanting to be named thieves or darkfriends (obviously).
His belt was ripped, but they gave it back to him anyway. Obviously, he
couldn't use a ripped belt, so I imagine he just threw it away and got
another one. But that is so mundane, that RJ simply did not see the need to
put it in the book. I think the point leaned more toward showing that the
Aes Sedai respected the ownership of people and their property, not that
they somehow managed to "heal" his belt. :p
Janse
"jamie" <ja...@sure.spam-me-silly.net> wrote in message
news:slrn979elq...@bozo2.local.net...
Tim Bruening
Gary Greenbaum wrote:
Do the AS have any clothes repair ter'angreals?
Gary Greenbaum
Janse Sedwin wrote:
Mat does not have the opportunity to buy anything, as he does not leave the
Tower grounds, until he leaves, and finds Thom. Before leaving the Tower,
he dresses to leave and places the Amyrlin's letter in his "belt pouch".
TDR, 30 The First Toss 279 of hardcover.
Also, with a ripped and useless belt, his breeches would have fallen down
during the fight with G&G.
Don't get into a lather, it's a minor continuity error I'm having a bit of fun
with. Might be worth including in the errors section in the FAQ.
Gary Greenbaum
Maccabeus Epimanes
Gary Greenbaum <gar...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
> Janse Sedwin wrote:
>
> > Well, here's my thoughts about the belt. It was Mat's belt, whether
it was
> > damaged or not. Hence, the Aes Sedai would give him back everything
that
> > belonged to him, not wanting to be named thieves or darkfriends
(obviously).
> > His belt was ripped, but they gave it back to him anyway.
Obviously, he
> > couldn't use a ripped belt, so I imagine he just threw it away and
got
> > another one. But that is so mundane, that RJ simply did not see the
need to
> > put it in the book. I think the point leaned more toward showing
that the
> > Aes Sedai respected the ownership of people and their property, not
that
> > they somehow managed to "heal" his belt. :p
> Don't get into a lather, it's a minor continuity error I'm having a
bit of fun
> with. Might be worth including in the errors section in the FAQ.
But is it, in fact, a continuity error? The Aes Sedai are not as strong
as Rand, of course, but fixing the Sun Crown seems to have been a
trivial feat for him.
Or, for that matter, they might have simply bought him a new belt like
everyone else would.
Shane
3A74DA09...@worldnet.att.net>,
Gary Greenbaum <gar...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
>
> > > >I would note that Mat's clothes (even his belt!) were returned to him.
> > > >They certainly spent time in very close proximity to the dagger. TSR,
> > > >20 Visitations, p. 178 of hardcover. That was actually a neat trick
> > > > since the said belt had ripped when the AS were healing Mat,
> > > >"[w]ith a loud pop of tearing leather, the golden-sheathed dagger rose
> > > >from Mat's belt . . ." TSR, 18 Healing 164 of hardcover.
> > >
> > > Healing leather is a rare Talent, but not unknown in the Tower. ;-P
> > >
> > > -
>
> Mat does not have the opportunity to buy anything, as he does not leave the
> Tower grounds, until he leaves, and finds Thom. Before leaving the Tower,
> he dresses to leave and places the Amyrlin's letter in his "belt pouch".
> TDR, 30 The First Toss 279 of hardcover.
>
> Also, with a ripped and useless belt, his breeches would have fallen down
> during the fight with G&G.
>
> Don't get into a lather, it's a minor continuity error I'm having a bit of fun
> with. Might be worth including in the errors section in the FAQ.
Couldn't it just as easily have been the
leather sheathe that housed the dagger that
ripped as opposed to Mat's belt. Sorry to
spoil your fun.
Gary Greenbaum
Shane wrote:
What leather sheath? The dagger is "golden sheathed". Read the above quote.
Also: "Mat's blankets had become disarrayed, exposing a curved dagger in a
golden sheath clutched in one hand, a ruby the size of a pigeon's egg capping
the hilt." TDR, 10 Secrets, p. 97 of hardcover. (By the way, in the quotes in
my earlier post, I said "TSR" where I meant "TDR", twice).
And at the start of the Healing scene "The Shadar Logoth dagger hung sheathed
at his belt . . . " TDR, 18 Healing, p. 162 of hardcover.
"As he sat down, still grinning, he absentmindedly touched his coat as if to make
sure that something tucked behind his belt was still there, and Rand's breath
caught.
'"Yes,' Moiraine said quietly, 'He still has the dagger ." TEoTW, 42
Remembrance of Dreams, p. 571 of book club hardcover."
So, Mat tended to tuck the sheathed dagger inside his belt, explaining why
the belt ripped.
"He had the Horn of Valere lashed to the high pommel of his saddle as if it
was just any horn, but the dagger was in his belt . . . " TGH, 47 The Grave
Is No Bar to My Call, p. 577 of hardcover. And he resumed that habit when
he got the dagger back.
"The golden-sheathed tip of the dagger from Shadar Logoth peeked from
under the edge of Mat's coat." TEoTW, 43 Decisions and Apparitions, p. 585
of book club hardcover. So, no leather sheath there.
Don't worry, you didn't spoil my fun!
Gary Greenbaum
Shane
3A759834...@worldnet.att.net>,
And a lot of fun it must be for you to find all
those quotes. I was just, perhaps
incorrectly, assuming that a golden sheathe
was a leather one with gold trim and/or
inlays. Looks like I could be wrong though.
Considering how ornamental the dagger is, it
isn't unreasonable to think it would have a
solid gold sheathe, I just hadn't thought of it
that way before.
All of which means either RJ goofed or the AS
replaced Mat's belt with a new one and he
just didn't mention it.
Gary Greenbaum
Shane wrote:
On page 221 of the Guide, there's a color drawing
of Mat's dagger, if you are interested.
Mat seemed very aware of his own property
after he was Healed. I think he would have noticed
a new belt, even if only to wonder what happened
to his old one (perhaps given to Sheriam for use
in the educational process of novices!)
No, I didn't mind looking up the quotes. I got
interested.
Gary Greenbaum
Shane
3A75CE75...@worldnet.att.net>,
> > > Don't worry, you didn't spoil my fun!
> >
> > And a lot of fun it must be for you to find all
> > those quotes. I was just, perhaps
> > incorrectly, assuming that a golden sheathe
> > was a leather one with gold trim and/or
> > inlays. Looks like I could be wrong though.
> > Considering how ornamental the dagger is, it
> > isn't unreasonable to think it would have a
> > solid gold sheathe, I just hadn't thought of it
> > that way before.
> >
> > All of which means either RJ goofed or the AS
> > replaced Mat's belt with a new one and he
> > just didn't mention it.
> >
>
> On page 221 of the Guide, there's a color drawing
> of Mat's dagger, if you are interested.
I'll have to check it out when I get home.
Honestly, I've tried hard not the look at the
artwork in the Guide.
> Mat seemed very aware of his own property
> after he was Healed. I think he would have noticed
> a new belt, even if only to wonder what happened
> to his old one (perhaps given to Sheriam for use
> in the educational process of novices!)
I tend to agree with you on this. He goes over
his possession carefully to make sure
nothing is missing.
> No, I didn't mind looking up the quotes. I got
> interested.
i can understand that, it just seemed like it
must have taken a lot of time to do.
Gary Greenbaum
Shane wrote:
> Gary Greenbaum
> > No, I didn't mind looking up the quotes. I got
> > interested.
>
> i can understand that, it just seemed like it
> must have taken a lot of time to do.
>
Not really, perhaps fifteen minutes. There really isn't that much
time in which Mat is conscious and has the dagger, after Moiraine
stabilizes him initially. And less time where the focus is on the
dagger. Right after Moiraine does her thing on him in TEoTW,
the start of TGH, the end of TGH, and a quick glance at the
time in TDR where he was unconscious with the dagger. For
most of TGH, he doesn't have the dagger.
Gary Greenbaum
Tim Bruening
except against Shadowsprawn and Darkfriends, or to defend herself, her
Warder, or another AS. Why are AS prohibited from using the OP to
defend someone else's Warder?
rak...@mindspring.com
Three "except" clauses are already too many to make the oath sound
like much.
Remember, the Three Oaths are a PR ploy when you get right down to it.
It's less important to the Aes Sedai what the Oaths mean than how
people react to the knowledge that Aes Sedai have taken them.
On the other hand, changing the clause to "herself, *A* warder, or
another Aes Sedai," would probably work just as well from the PR
standpoint.
jamie
>
>On page 221 of the Guide, there's a color drawing
>of Mat's dagger, if you are interested.
I haven't looked at that drawing lately, but The Big Book of Bad Art is
not exactly known for accuracy in the pictures. Howzabout that lovely
tan on the Myrdraal?
Gary Greenbaum
jamie wrote:
> Gary Greenbaum <gar...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> >On page 221 of the Guide, there's a color drawing
> >of Mat's dagger, if you are interested.
>
> I haven't looked at that drawing lately, but The Big Book of Bad Art is
> not exactly known for accuracy in the pictures. Howzabout that lovely
> tan on the Myrdraal?
>
Yes, apparently the paleface Fades take vacations at beach resorts
someplace near Illian. Just lay around in the sun, you know.
Gary Greenbaum
YogiDoc90
a belt that was only ripped...if I had to.
Adam Benedict Canning
jamie wrote:
>
> Gary Greenbaum <gar...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> >On page 221 of the Guide, there's a color drawing
> >of Mat's dagger, if you are interested.
>
> I haven't looked at that drawing lately, but The Big Book of Bad Art is
> not exactly known for accuracy in the pictures. Howzabout that lovely
> tan on the Myrdraal?
I do have to admit to prefering the paperback version of the Guide,
whihc deletes all the art except for the Maps.
Adam
Tim Bruening
of Time series and other SF series?
Tim Bruening
Winter's Heart Spoilers, P 249:
On page 249, a Dark Friend named Daved Hanlon tells several of his
comrades that he is the new Captain of the Queen's Bodyguard (he now
heads Elayne's bodyguards). I predict that he and his comrades will
kidnap Elayne (after dousing her with forkroot again) and take her
somewhere where 13 Fades and 13 Channelers can convert her to the
Shadow.
If Elayne, currently pregnant with twins, got converted to the Shadow as
in the above paragraph, how would her fetuses be affected?
Scott
"Tim Bruening" <tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote in message
news:3AB2B4CF...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
first, no need for spoiler space.
second... i like to imagine that something would happen like in south park
where one of the fetuses dies and the other one has it conjoined on the
head... "Conjoined Twin Myslexia" you know...or something like bart
simpson's evil twin where they lock it in the attic and feed it dead fish.
Tim Bruening
Locoweed
Tim Bruening
Wheel of Time series?
Brian Trosko
> What are the best and worst decisions Robert Jordan has made in the
> Wheel of Time series?
Not finishing the whole damned thing up in 4 books.
Dee
Brian Trosko <btr...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:99481g$nrs$1...@news.panix.com...
Etherman
> What are the best and worst decisions Robert Jordan has made in the
> Wheel of Time series?
Worst: Focussing on the wonder girls instead of the taveren.
Best: Giving us subtle clues instead of hitting us over the head.
--
Etherman
AA # pi
EAC Director of Ritual Satanic Abuse Operations
David Flood
> Happy St Patrick's Day.
>
And to you too, even though;
1) It's 'postponed' (oh the joys of commercialisation) here in Ireland due
to Foot-and-Mouth
2) The Irish Government are *always* out of the country on this day (on
junkets/being 'ambassadors' - take your pick)
Still, I appreciate your sentiment - and Happy St. Patrick's Day to you too
;-)
Daithí
Tim Bruening
Chris
Worst: None really
~Chris
The Almighty One begining The Shading Rising
Etherman <ether...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Zdyt6.559$Wz.1...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
Slugo Jepfran Altiwamsan
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:TkBs6.28244$H5.63...@news1.rdc2.pa.home.com..
.
Actually I don't think that they will kidnap her. Sooner black-mail her or
something. Anyway if they realy kidnap here i don't think they will convert
her to the shadow. And if they do kidnap her they will have to face a very
angry Rand (they don't know something about elayne and him nor the bond)...
Noah Wan
flawed wasn't a big mistake. it actually is a good decision. it keeps the
books in balance by keeping Rand from becoming too powerful. What fun would
reading a book where the main character dosen't have to strugle to
win/survive? It'd be pointless to write anymore books, because he'd be al
powerful with little effort to gain it. He's got a pretty good story going,
and, even though he could finish it up soon, he has fone well to keep the
reader in suspense and keep them interested in reading his books and
visiting his world.
Also, dose anyone know EXACTLY when the D20 system rules for WOT are coming
out?
BuhDA
Noah Wan, Master of All and Nothing
"Dee" <d.mcca...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:99515s$9pg$1...@uranium.btinternet.com...
Noah Wan
"Etherman" <ether...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Zdyt6.559$Wz.1...@typhoon.ne.mediaone.net...
>
> news:3AB596D5...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us...
> > What are the best and worst decisions Robert Jordan has made in the
> > Wheel of Time series?
>
> Worst: Focussing on the wonder girls instead of the taveren.
Focusing on the "Wonder Girls" isn't a mistake. it's character development.
any good writer will develop their characters as far as they can. It gives
the reader a sense of knowing the character as a person and adds realism.
Take George R.R. Martin for example. He spends as much time writing about
characters that are killed as he does ones who survive. It keeps the reader
in suspense by not hinting at whose going to be killed by less character
development, and makes the reader feel more connected to them. Enough of my
ramblings. that's that.
BuhDA
Noah Wan, Master of All and Nothing>
Tallis
Best: the murder mysteries.
Worst: Perrin and Faile. Man oh man do I detest those two when they're
together.
Perrin: "Should I pick up the axe, or the hammer?"
Faile: "You smiled at that chair, didn't you? DIDN'T YOU?! But I'm not
mad."
(Faile smiles)
(Perrin smells Faile, and Light, he was surprised his nose wasn't
bleeding! That thorny, thorny scent...)
argh...just have Perrin tell all the wolves to listen to Elyas
instead, and abdicate the anticapated Manetheren throne to Mayor
Al'Vere... and just get rid of those two for good.
I admit, though, that I do like Faile's capture bit; and things are
getting interesting with Galina, and the Shaido. So I guess they're
okay apart -- at least Faile is; Perrin just keeps on whinning; but,
together? No way.
-Tallis
Frank van Schie
Tallis wrote:
>
> I admit, though, that I do like Faile's capture bit; and things are
> getting interesting with Galina, and the Shaido. So I guess they're
> okay apart -- at least Faile is; Perrin just keeps on whinning; but,
> together? No way.
A wolf steps in and looks at Perrin. His name is Grey Wind, but that
isn't quite right. It is like the wind at the beginning of the book,
plowing through a bank of morning mist in a lush green valley.
/Cub.../. A sending from the wolf.
"What is it, Grey Wind?" Perrin asks.
/Quit your damned whinging, you twat/.
Grey Wind, having spent the past two weeks hearing Perrin's lamenting
his wife's kidnapping, lunges for Perrin's throat and rips it out.
Everyone in the camp rejoices, and moves on, leaving Faile behind.
--
Frank
David A. Rothgery
> <snip question>
>
> Best: the murder mysteries.
>
> Worst: Perrin and Faile. Man oh man do I detest those two when they're
> together.
Err. They're fine together, as long as Berelain's nowhere near them.
Perrin's thread in TSR, frex, was some of the best writing in the series
to date.
--
Dave Rothgery
Picking nits since 1976
drot...@myrealbox.com
http://drothgery.editthispage.com
The Great Gray Skwid
Very nice. Except that RJ surely wouldn't ever use so egregiously
annoying a word as "whinging." Twat, sure...but never whinging.
--
| | |\ | | | ) Theudegisklos "Skwid" Sweinbrothar
|/| |\ |/ | |X| ( SKWID, Vulture V4 pilot ( The Humblest Mollusc
| | | | | | | ) Evan "Skwid" Langlinais ) on the Net
"Ram Air? Sounds like a Porn Airline?"-Mel http://skwid.home.texas.net
Frank van Schie
The Great Gray Skwid wrote:
>
> Very nice. Except that RJ surely wouldn't ever use so egregiously
> annoying a word as "whinging." Twat, sure...but never whinging.
Shit.
I try. I really try to avoid that usage. But it's been hurled (and
there's an appropriate word if ever I heard one) in front of my eyes so
many times now, I'm starting to use it. I meant, of course, 'whining'.
Shit.
--
Frank
Terry D. Mott
"David A. Rothgery" <drot...@myrealbox.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.15dc2fc94e565636989a8f@news-server...
> Tallis <TallisT...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > <snip question>
> >
> > Best: the murder mysteries.
> >
> > Worst: Perrin and Faile. Man oh man do I detest those two when
they're
> > together.
>
> Err. They're fine together, as long as Berelain's nowhere near them.
> Perrin's thread in TSR, frex, was some of the best writing in the
series
> to date.
>
thread in TSR was great, _after_ they reached the Two Rivers. The
stuff before then in Tear and the Ways got old in a hurry.
When Perrin met his in-laws (what book was that in?), I thought he was
finally going to figure out how to handle Faile and RJ would be able
to move the pair forward but, alas, it was not to be. Perrin is
almost as clueless as ever. I seem to remember Elyas giving him
marital advice, as well, but suspect it will be ignored and Perrin
will become even more tiresome than ever should Faile be rescued.
Maybe the Shaido will keep her for couple more books!
I'm in the middle of my first re-read of the series, about 4/5 through
tFoH, so I haven't seen either of them since the TSR. There's a
little dread in the back of my mind knowing all the Perrin / Faile
crap I'm gonna have to wade through in the coming books :(.
As a runner-up to Perrin and Faile for worst decision, I'd like to
mention all the endless discussion of clothes and furnishings. I
mean, just say that so-and-so was wearing a fancy red dress and get on
with it! Who cares what color the embroidered flowers on the left
breast were or how high up the neck the lace went or whether there
were buttons down the left sleeve? Some amount of description of
furnishings and architecture is needed to establish setting, but if I
read one more page singularly devoted to beating me over the head with
how everything in Cairhien is built in right-angles by a bunch of
anal-retentive architects, I may scream.
The series (and half a sequel) could be finished by now. I just read
a good-sized paragraph in tFoH that was devoted to Nynaeve comparing
the good wool stockings she was putting on to the silk ones that
Birgette was wearing and how the silk ones would be cooler, but
Nynaeve wasn't going to flaunt herself like that but would wear good
_stout_ woolens with good _stout_ shoes, all this said _to_herself_!
A complete waste of time and ink. It didn't contribute to character
development because it was so redundant to all of Nynaeve's POV's
throughout the book. It didn't contribute to the story-line, either.
I fail to see the point.
For best decision, maybe Mat's character. I've never really gotten
into the murder mysteries. I only care who murdered Asmodean, etc.,
to the extent it advances the plot. I doubt Asmodean's murderer, in
particular, would. If it did, we would have found out by now. I
think RJ just needed to get rid of him so Rand would be on his own and
thought the way he did it would be clever (which it was). Now,
finding out who Athelas (sp?) and Ispan's murderer is may be more
important to the story.
TM
Mark Shea
Frank van Schie <fvs...@wanadoo.nl> wrote in message
news:3B727618...@wanadoo.nl...
>
> A wolf steps in and looks at Perrin. His name is Grey Wind, but
that
> isn't quite right. It is like the wind at the beginning of the book,
> plowing through a bank of morning mist in a lush green valley.
> /Cub.../. A sending from the wolf.
> "What is it, Grey Wind?" Perrin asks.
> /Quit your damned whinging, you twat/.
> Grey Wind, having spent the past two weeks hearing Perrin's
lamenting
> his wife's kidnapping, lunges for Perrin's throat and rips it out.
> Everyone in the camp rejoices, and moves on, leaving Faile behind.
> --
rofl.
Mark Shea
--
It is a well known fact that the sheep that give
us steel wool have no natural predators
- full credit to Gary Larson
Eric
Eric Betz
The Great Gray Skwid
> Completely out of curiousity, why Exactly is this Thread being crossposted?
You know, that's really quite a good question.
I'm afraid I didn't notice that before. My apologies to the denizens of
awot.
-JOsh
write like he does, then I'll listen.
Get a life...
-JOsh
Noah Wan <noah...@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:tn3irfp...@corp.supernews.com...
Ted Maxwell
wrote:
>I'd like to know where y'all get off on critiscicing RJ;
>when U can adn do write like he does, then I'll listen.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm quite able to adn do write like anyone does, thank you
very much!
>Get a life...
I will when you stop top-posting.
-Ted
Terry D. Mott
"-JOsh" <ala...@iafrica.com> wrote in message
news:3b72d...@news1.mweb.co.za...
> I'd like to know where y'all get off on critiscicing RJ; when U can
adn do
> write like he does, then I'll listen.
> Get a life...
> -JOsh
Another point about this: if we're criticizing his writing, it goes
without saying that we wouldn't _choose_ to write like he does -- we'd
want to make the suggested improvements, wouldn't we.
Don't get me wrong. If I didn't like his writing, I wouldn't be
reading the books. It's just human nature to find fault (fun
sometimes, too!). If we all just sat around all day making posts
about how wonderful and jolly everything that RJ has ever written is,
this would be a pretty boring newsgroup.
TM
Scott
premise but it is annoying having to wade through all of the anti-character
development. Perrin should have grown up a long time ago. Nynaeve too. At
least Nynaeve looks like she is starting to move forward a little bit now
that she has married Lan.
I'll tell you, I'd pay extra to read an abridge version of this series.
I've never felt that way about books before.
Scott
"-JOsh" <ala...@iafrica.com> wrote in message
news:3b72d...@news1.mweb.co.za...
A Reys
> > >
> > > Focusing on the "Wonder Girls" isn't a mistake. it's character
> > development.
> > > any good writer will develop their characters as far as they can. It
> gives
> > > the reader a sense of knowing the character as a person and adds
> realism.
> > > Take George R.R. Martin for example. He spends as much time writing
> about
> > > characters that are killed as he does ones who survive. It keeps the
> > reader
> > > in suspense by not hinting at whose going to be killed by less
character
> > > development, and makes the reader feel more connected to them. Enough
of
> > my
> > > ramblings. that's that.
> > >
> > > BuhDA
> > > Noah Wan, Master of All and Nothing>
> > > > Best: Giving us subtle clues instead of hitting us over the head.
Yeah, but when Martin writes about a character who will eventually die, he
uses that PoV to fill the reader in on things they may otherwise
not know but will later need to understand. Jordan, on the other hand,
rambles on and on while writing about the Wonder Girls, doesn't really get
anywhere, and manages
intorduce a completely useless subplot (bowl of winds/weather) that at this
point has had almost zero bearing on the story.
My 2nd+ times through the series I find myself completely skipping most of
the Wonder Girls chapters because they're bloody useless and boring.
A Reys
Barbara Zappala
----- Original Message -----
From: "A Reys" <andr...@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: alt.wheel.of.time,rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 12:38 AM
Subject: Re: Robert Jordan's Best And Worst Decisions Of WOT
<snip!>
Jordan, on the other hand,
> rambles on and on while writing about the Wonder Girls, doesn't really get
> anywhere, and manages
> intorduce a completely useless subplot (bowl of winds/weather) that at
this
> point has had almost zero bearing on the story.
The bowl of the winds wasn't a useless subplot. It brought about the
unholy triangle of Kin, Aes Sedai and windfinders, which is in fact the
embryonic stages of a new coalition of female channelers that will be
instrumental in defeating the hordes of Trollocs, myrdraal and dreadlords
about to overrun the Borderlands. Or so it seems.
I'd like to ask everyone their theories on how Egwene will reconcile
the Aes Sedai and the Aiel Wise Ones. My pet theory is that Amys' toh
towards Egwene, which she incurred when she deliberately mislead Egwene
about Rand's relationship with the Salidar delegation (she told Egwene that
Rand was having no trouble with them, but didn't tell her that they had
sworn fealty) will be involved. IIRC, Amys made some small bit of maiden
handtalk as she spoke, and we know from one of Aviendha's POV's that the
phrase "I have a toh" is one of the simplest things to express in handtalk.
Sorry I don't have page references. I don't have my books with me.
Marc
Richard Boye'
> <snip!>
>
> Jordan, on the other hand,
> > rambles on and on while writing about the Wonder Girls, doesn't really get
> > anywhere, and manages
> > intorduce a completely useless subplot (bowl of winds/weather) that at
> this
> > point has had almost zero bearing on the story.
>
> The bowl of the winds wasn't a useless subplot. It brought about the
> unholy triangle of Kin, Aes Sedai and windfinders, which is in fact the
> embryonic stages of a new coalition of female channelers that will be
> instrumental in defeating the hordes of Trollocs, myrdraal and dreadlords
> about to overrun the Borderlands. Or so it seems.
It also gave Mat a convenient reason to be in Ebou Dar just in time to
run into Tuon.
> I'd like to ask everyone their theories on how Egwene will reconcile
> the Aes Sedai and the Aiel Wise Ones. My pet theory is that Amys' toh
> towards Egwene, which she incurred when she deliberately mislead Egwene
> about Rand's relationship with the Salidar delegation (she told Egwene that
> Rand was having no trouble with them, but didn't tell her that they had
> sworn fealty) will be involved. IIRC, Amys made some small bit of maiden
> handtalk as she spoke, and we know from one of Aviendha's POV's that the
> phrase "I have a toh" is one of the simplest things to express in handtalk.
> Sorry I don't have page references. I don't have my books with me.
The other thing was a throwaway line from Amys where she says "when the
Aes Sedai show me that they have as much honor as Egwene al'Vere, we'll
apologize (or something like that)." Egwene's elevation by the Aes Sedai
might be taken by the Aielwomen as endorsements of her personal honor.
--
Richard M. Boye' ICQ:9021244
* wa...@webspan.net
* http://www.webspan.net/~waldo/
"Let's put the 'fun' back in 'dysfunctional'!"
Barbara Zappala
"Richard Boye'" <wa...@webspan.net> wrote in message
news:3C40C9...@webspan.net...
> Barbara Zappala wrote:
<snip>
> > I'd like to ask everyone their theories on how Egwene will
reconcile
> > the Aes Sedai and the Aiel Wise Ones. My pet theory is that Amys' toh
> > towards Egwene, which she incurred when she deliberately mislead Egwene
> > about Rand's relationship with the Salidar delegation (she told Egwene
that
> > Rand was having no trouble with them, but didn't tell her that they had
> > sworn fealty) will be involved. IIRC, Amys made some small bit of
maiden
> > handtalk as she spoke, and we know from one of Aviendha's POV's that the
> > phrase "I have a toh" is one of the simplest things to express in
handtalk.
> > Sorry I don't have page references. I don't have my books with me.
>
> The other thing was a throwaway line from Amys where she says "when the
> Aes Sedai show me that they have as much honor as Egwene al'Vere, we'll
> apologize (or something like that)." Egwene's elevation by the Aes Sedai
> might be taken by the Aielwomen as endorsements of her personal honor.
I don't know. When the Wise Ones found out about Egwene's promotion, they
told her she was basically a straw man being used by the Aes Sedai, and
referred to the sitters as "her enemies".
Marc
Tim Bruening
except against Shadowsprawn and Darkfriends, or to defend herself, her
Warder, or another AS. Why are AS prohibited from using the OP to
defend someone else's Warder?
Jean Dufresne
Why not her maid? Why not the novices? Why not the cat of the sister
of the husband of the Tower's Head Cook? I don't know. The limit had
to be placed somewhere, I guess. If they listed twenty-seven
exceptions, it would look like it tends to become infinitely extensible
and it would miss the purpose of trying to bring the people to trust the
AS a bit more. Also, it would become difficult for an AS in the middle
of combat to remember what she can or cannot do. "Uh... wait a second
before you try to kill me, I must check the list here..." Each AS knows
who her Warder(s) is(are), but can she know without a doubt who is, and
who is not, the Warder of all other AS? Besides, the third Oath is
already too long for RJ's writing style. He can't write it twice the
same way. Imagine if it was even longer...
--
Jean
Matthew Schroeder
ridiculous, at least in part by design.
matt.
Yves E. Kunz
It seems to be a really important question to you... You have
asked the exact same question four years ago.
Tim Bruening
chro...@gmail.com
Ok, my questions is this: is this some kind of bot or phisher? Or is
this just a weird error that keeps sending the same message every
couple of years?
Arno Wagner
If I read google groups right, he has about 500'000 postings,
nearly 25'000 of which are in bit.listserv.autism. This may be
the explanation here, somebody that just sees the world a bit
differently.
Arno
chro...@gmail.com
I took a quick peek at his Google profile. Lots of posts to humor and
puns groups. Maybe he's on his own little wheel of time?
Chucky & Janica
there was this guy, or something, called Tim Bruening
<tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us>, and they made us all feel better by
saying the following stuff:
Because then it heads into "friend's warder's butler's best mate's
bridge partner" territory, and the whole thing goes to Shayol Ghul in
a handbasket.
What? Thought there was nobody else around to answer questions?
C&J
--
Beware of Trojans, they're complete smegheads.
- 13 & 13b of 12, the CMM Collective.
- www.afrj-monkeyhouse.org
Tim Bruening
David DeLaney
Because that would require rather too much judgement issues / loophole
possibilities / etc.; each AS is mentally linked to HER warders only, so knows
right off when they think they're in danger, wounded, etc. She doesn't have
that advantage for other sisters' Warders, so there'd be a lot more "I THOUGHT
YOU WERE IN DANGER!!1!" "I was ducking my HEAD under the BATH water to get my
HAIR clean, you interfering ninny!" situations...
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from d...@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Tim Bruening
David DeLaney wrote:
> Tim Bruening <tsbr...@pop.dcn.davis.ca.us> wrote:
> >The 3rd Oath prohibits an AS from using the One Power as a weapon,
> >except against Shadowsprawn and Darkfriends, or to defend herself, her
> >Warder, or another AS. Why are AS prohibited from using the OP to
> >defend someone else's Warder?
>
> Because that would require rather too much judgement issues / loophole
> possibilities / etc.; each AS is mentally linked to HER warders only, so knows
> right off when they think they're in danger, wounded, etc. She doesn't have
> that advantage for other sisters' Warders, so there'd be a lot more "I THOUGHT
> YOU WERE IN DANGER!!1!" "I was ducking my HEAD under the BATH water to get my
> HAIR clean, you interfering ninny!" situations...
But an AS can defend other AS, to which she is not mentally linked.