A once proud Marine explains the "ethics" of recruiting
Gary Aguilar
Recruiting Teenagers as War Fodder
Sign Here, Kid
By MIKE FERNER
He trolled for teenagers in North Carolina high schools, barked orders
at recruits in boot camp, and pulled charred civilian corpses out of
cars in Iraq. Now Jimmy Massey is making good on his promise to tell
the whole world what he learned as a Marine.
For the first 10 years, Massey loved being in the USMC. With a quick
mind and an easy manner, he and his superiors knew he'd make a great
recruiter. And by the luck of the draw, he was assigned to the area
around Asheville, N.C., not far from where he grew up.
"It was an advantage being a recruiter in this area. I understand the
mentality of mountain people. When we'd talk about topics like the
economy and industry around here, I knew what people were talking
about. And too, people here usually don't open up to strangers."
Contrary to what some believe, Marine Corps recruiters don't get paid
commission for going over quota, the 32-year-old former staff sergeant
explained. "My monthly quota was three in the summer and two in the
winter. You could get five one month but still go from hero to zero
next month when you started over again."
Recruiters are, however, "one of only three Military Occupational
Specialties (MOS) in the Marines that get Special Duty Assignment
(SDA) pay an extra $475 a month when I was in to offset the higher
cost of living when you're a recruiter," he said. "An E-5 recruiter
would make about $1,500 every two weeks including SDA pay. But being a
recruiter is expensive. There's extra costs. When you're a recruiter,
you've got to play the part."
Bling, Promises, and the "Moment of Truth"
"For example, you have to have a nice car you can't go rolling down
the street in some old family wagon. You can't be sittin' there
talking to a kid about financial stability and driving an old Ford
Ranger. That just don't get it!" He said he drove a Mustang for his
personal car, and Army recruiters he knew drove "decked-out
Expeditions with 20-inch rims. You have to have a little 'bling'
[gold, jewelry, etc.] on you that kind of thing. I made sure I always
dressed nice when I was off duty. You gotta play the part. Young kids
are really materialistic minded."
Then there's the everyday expenses of recruiting, "like taking a guy
to Hooters for some wings. The government gives me a credit card, but
it's in my name and the bill comes to me. I have to pay it and then
get reimbursed."
Often the biggest enticement a recruiter can offer young men and women
trying to escape poverty is the promise of job training, even more
appealing when it's for a MOS in data systems, aircraft electronics,
aircraft crew chief, or other sought-after specialties. But as Massey
acknowledged, "The Marine Corps can guarantee you a job all day long,
but that doesn't mean you're going to actually get it."
A common way to swindle recruits out of promised jobs is the "Moment
of Truth" exercise in boot camp. New recruits are taken to a room
where their DI (drill instructor) tells them to "really think about
it" and see if they've lied while enlisting or filling out their
application.
"They'll ask the recruits if they lied about things like ever having
smoked grass, or maybe how many times they've smoked, and ask them to
raise their hand if they've lied any time in the recruiting process,"
Massey said. When the hands go up, the DI looks at them and says,
"Listen. This is what's gonna happen now. You lied to us. You can
either quit in disgrace now, or since you signed a contract to be a
Marine, you can stay in, but we're not going to let you have the job
you asked for."
"Investigations" and Private Eyes
"There's a whole network within the community to enable recruiters to
make their quotas the sheriff's department, police department,
schools all the way up to the local congressional office."
Massey recalled that at one point, "There was a congressional
investigation brought up against me. I enlisted someone who was
handicapped. I should have been in deep sh*t, but the Marine Corps
swept it under the rug by stating that the kid had fraudulently
enlisted. I got a call from Congressman Charles Taylor congratulating
me on the work I had been doing, and he sent me an autographed
picture."
"A recruiter is like a private eye," Massey said. "They know
everything about the kids they're recruiting."
For example, he learned the names of virtually every graduating high
school senior in his seven-county district about 1,000 youngsters
annually in that largely rural area.
And high school students weren't the only people he got to know well.
"We knew the names of the district attorneys [DAs] in every county and
went to them to get certain charges reduced or dismissed on kids we
were recruiting. We took flowers to the secretaries in the clerk of
courts offices. The clerk of courts can make a lot of things appear
and disappear. We got to know people working in hospital medical
records so we could check out, say, if a certain kid had asthma or
not. We'd ask other kids 'what about Johnny Smith?' to find out if he
had problems or if he might be interested."
He explained the Marines' Systematic Recruiting method that includes
use of a working file of Prospective Applicant Cards on which
information is routinely entered. "I'd put all the information down
that I knew maybe Johnny Smith had some problems with the law. That's
when I'd go to the DA and ask if Johnny was salvageable. If he was,
I'd tell the DA, 'well, I talked with Johnny and he's thinking of
going into the Marine Corps.' More likely than not the response I got
would be, 'Oh yeah? Well, that's just great!'"
Massey said three years as a recruiter taught him "the power of the
English language."
"One way we used it was to identify 'tangible and intangible traits'
in applicants. We would use cards with words printed on them, like
'self confidence,' or 'financial security' and ask an applicant to
pick ones they were concerned about. That way, if a kid picks 'self
confidence,' he's telling you he feels like he's lacking in self
confidence and you can work him from that angle."
For potential recruits with a record of criminal convictions, Massey
pointed out that, "Anything is pretty much waivable in the Marine
Corps even up to one felony."
Potentially life-threatening medical conditions were also waivable,
according to Massey. "Johnny might come to see me his senior year and
say, 'Sarge, I'm wondering if I might have something that might
disqualify me I've got asthma.'"
"I'd ask him if he uses an inhaler. If he answered 'yes,' I'd tell him
that if he controlled it with an inhaler then he really didn't have
asthma. Then I'd tell him to give me 10 pushups. If he did that with
no trouble, I'd say, 'See, you don't have asthma!'"
He described his time as a recruiter as progressively more and more
difficult. By his last year at it, 2002, he was "tired of lying. I
felt like I was close to a nervous breakdown from the stress. I
started seeing a psychiatrist, was diagnosed with major depression and
put on medication for it. I wrote a letter to my commanding officer
about how Marine Corps recruiting should be changed to be more
ethical. The Recruiter Instructor they sent out to monitor my efforts
ended up telling me he thought it was one of the best statements
anyone had ever written about recruiting practices."
Massey decided to quit being a recruiter but also to reenlist to get
back to "the regular Marine Corps duty" he enjoyed. Leaving behind the
deceit and stress of recruiting made him feel much better "good
enough to get off anti-depressants." But soon he got orders to
northern Kuwait and within two months was invading Iraq with 130,000
other U.S. troops.
"We Just Lit 'Em Up"
As he made his way north toward Baghdad, through the towns of Safwan
and Basra, "our main job was to set up roadblocks. We had permission
to fire on anyone who got through them."
It was this experience, barely an instant compared with his dozen
years in the Marines, that showed him a side of the military he'd not
seen as an instructor at Parris Island or a recruiter.
"In one 48-hour period, we killed over 30 civilians in vehicles that
got past our roadblocks. We just lit 'em up with gunfire. But when we
went to pull the charred corpses out of the cars we never found any
weapons. They were just civilians. I could start feeling the
depression come back. I knew what it was from."
In a meeting one day, his lieutenant asked him if he was feeling OK.
Massey replied no, and told the lieutenant that "we're committing
genocide and leaving enough depleted uranium around to continue
genocidal activity for a long time."
"Do you really believe that?" the lieutenant asked.
"Yes," replied Massey, "or I wouldn't have said it."
"I knew my career in the Marine Corps was over at that point," he
added.
Sent back to the States for medical reasons, Massey returned to the
Marine base at 29 Palms, Calif., and was told to report to the mental
health clinic. There, the first psychiatrist he spoke with told him,
"I don't deal with conscientious objectors [COs]."
"I knew right away we were going to have a problem," Massey said,
"because my response to her was, 'Well, if you call not wanting to
kill innocent civilians being a CO' and she came back with, 'Need I
remind you that you are still in the military?'"
Refusing to back down, Massey retorted, "Woman, this isn't my military
because the Marine Corps I enlisted in was run by the Geneva
Conventions. We didn't kill civilians, and we damn sure didn't cover
it up."
Later, in a meeting with a senior non-commissioned officer (NCO), he
was asked, "What's wrong?" But when Massey responded, the NCO
interrupted him so he could open a desk drawer and turn on a tape
recorder. Massey told the NCO he knew he was soon on his way out of
the Marines, and told him, "I don't want your money. I don't want your
benefits nothin'! Not with what y'all did over there in Iraq killing
civilians."
Massey said he knew he would need an attorney before talking with his
superiors again, so he located one in a copy of the Marine Corps
Times. "Next meeting I had with the psychiatrist, my attorney talked
with her on the phone. She was completely different when she got off
the phone with him."
Asked what advice he would give to a teenager thinking of visiting a
military recruiter, Massey thought a moment and answered, "Take a
veteran with you to the recruiter. We're never going to stop that one
kid bound and determined to play Rambo, but getting the facts out,
educating kids on what really goes on is important. That's why I keep
speaking out."
Indeed, Massey put the Marines on notice just before he left. He
informed a colonel, "The moment I get out of here I'm going to tell
the whole world what I've learned."
Mike Ferner is a member of Veterans for Peace from Toledo, Ohio. He
returned from a second trip to Iraq earlier this year. He can be
reached at: mike....@sbcglobal.net
Rita Hansard
"Gary Aguilar" <gar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:d127717d.04111...@posting.google.com...
> November 18, 2004
> Recruiting Teenagers as War Fodder
> Sign Here, Kid
>
> By MIKE FERNER
>
> He trolled for teenagers in North Carolina high schools, barked orders
> at recruits in boot camp, and pulled charred civilian corpses out of
> cars in Iraq. Now Jimmy Massey is making good on his promise to tell
> the whole world what he learned as a Marine.
(Snipped for brevity.)
I think those Marines put something in the water once they get 'em hooked on
the idea of becoming a Marine, with chemicals of course supplied by the DoD.
It's probably like the swindle with the Food for Oil program, 'cept the DoD
uses dope for manpower. I digress, though, and to get back on subject, those
Marines tend to be faithful to the bone to the Marine Corps, and for the
entirety of their natural-born lives. You think maybe they just stick a
"loyality" feeding tube into them while they're sleeping? Of course the
ingredient doesn't take with everyone, as Mike Ferner aptly demonstrates,
and then there's my nephew who just didn't make the cut, (maybe his asthma
was REALLY acting up that day) but I'm sure that whatever trick they're
using works to control such a majority that a few slipping through the
cracks don't matter. And boot camp, have you ever looked at the pure joy on
those kid's faces when they make it through? It don't make sense, does it? I
mean, after being swindled out of a preferred job and psychologically
damaged by being tricked into believing they didn't have asthma, you'd think
they'd end up hating the Corps for life -- but for some reason they tend to
do the exact opposite.
Oh well, go figure. Whatever is going on, that Semper Fi stuff sure does
make 'em proud.
Oh, and Aguilar, what sort of fool breaches a road block in a combat zone
which is guarded by men armed to the teeth? You reckon the people were just
given no warning and shot like they were in Vietnam's free fire zones by
those barbaric US troops who didn't have sense enough to put their shorts on
straight? And, too, when are our Marines going to learn the art of head
sawing? My patience is surely being tried by what I consider an unfair
disadvantage to American troops because they are so far behind in "Cut
Throat Barbarity 101" that the camera men are going die of old age before I
ever get a chance to see a big bad Marine saw the head off of a live human
being. Come on, Gary, stand up and protest with me. The government is
depriving us of our right to equal bloodlust glory, and if the Marines don't
hurry up and get with it, I think we should take their Semper Fi dope away.
On a personal note, Winter is just around the corner. "Stay warm," you hear?
Rita
Nigel Brooks
> Recruiting Teenagers as War Fodder
> Sign Here, Kid
>
> By MIKE FERNER
>
> He trolled for teenagers in North Carolina high schools, barked orders
> at recruits in boot camp, and pulled charred civilian corpses out of
> cars in Iraq. Now Jimmy Massey is making good on his promise to tell
> the whole world what he learned as a Marine.
Well just look who crawled in here licking his wounds.
Hey Gabe - wazzup?
Initiate trigger sequence
.
.
.
.
.
Mike Baden
McAdams
Posner
Best Regards
Nigel Brooks
redvet
Good Post...We have an active VFP in Hawaii and are supporting the
anti-recruitment efforts in the local schools. We are allowed to speak as
vets when recruiters troll the campus and have literature racks in several
highschools. Here is one of the 'talking points' we use when counter
recruiting. Feel free to share.
- redvet
Thinking of joining the military?
Think again!
Get the facts before you give up your life.
Its not just a job- it's 8 years of your life!
Why join the military?
Education?
Less than half of veterans receive g.i. bill money for college
Less than 1% get the advertised $50,000 for college
65% of those who pay the required $1,200 for the college fund never receive
back a dime
7-out-of-10 students receive financial aid without joining the military
Job training?
Only 12% of men & 8% of women report learning a skill transferable to
civilian life
Equal opportunity?
37.5% of enlisted are of color, yet only 16.2% are officers.
Discrimination of sexual orientation is standard military policy.
Opportunities for women?
78% of women in the military report cases of sexual harassment (Dod survey)
30% of active duty women reported rape or attempted rape in recent survey
(Miles foundation)
Discipline?
Leadership skills?
is blind obedience really self-discipline?
Is top-down bossing-around really leadership?
Freedom?
Soldiers forfeit basic rights and are subject to military law 24/7 (10
u.s.c. sec 654)
Promoting Democracy?
Over half-a-million iraqi children killed by us-led sanctions 1991-1998
(unicef)
Liberation?
Over 10,000 Iraqi civilians killed & number is rising (iraqbodycount.org)
Recruiter promises?
Recruiters are salespeople with quota incentives.
Duty?
Despite warnings, the pentagon subject soldiers to depleted uranium in iraq
and Kosovo, disabling and killing numerous. Many soldiers have also become
disabled or killed by compulsory anthrax vaccine.
Patriotism?
Is killing or being killed for oil patriotic? How can you serve your
community thousands of miles away?
Career? Job satisfaction?
More enlistees dissatisfied than satisfied, with only 29% re-enlisting (1999
dod survey)
Honor?
Do you want to serve the same military that exterminated American Indians
and invaded the Hawaiian nation?
Excitement? Adventure?
578 US service members have died in iraq, while over 2,668 have been
wounded. Everyday The numbers rise.
Money?
Some military families require welfare & food stamps
Only 22.7% soldiers are satisfied with basic pay (1999 dod survey)
Long-term security?
The Bush administration has slashed veteran benefits
33% of homeless are veterans (American legion)
almost 1/3 of vets have filed for disabilities from gulf war i.
Family support?
1-in-3 military families experience domestic violence, while a average of
one child or spouse dies each week at the hands of a relative in the
military
(source: American public health association, 2000)
peace through Strength?
If war solves problems, why do they continue?
The "benefits?"
The enlistment agreements states that your status, pay, benefits and
responsibilities in the military can change without warning and regardless
of any promises in your agreement!
Extra income?
Thousands of national guard and reserve soldiers have been activated into
active duty. Many have taken a financial loss and have been separated from
their families.
GrgLnsctt
>Sign Here, Kid
- LMAO
Gary,
Still defending your youthful doubt and indecision I see. Your eternal reward
for not showing up is the heavy weight of guilt and ignorance about the
military/war/combat zone experience. Posting anti-war & anti-military and gosh!
terrifying "recruiting" propaganda is unbecoming and undignified. You should
have gone to Vietnam, Gary. The truth was/is in the combat zone. The most
painful truth being your inability to prove your manhood. Forever lost is that
moment. I do really feel sorry for you. I cannot imagine the feelings of
inadequacy and impotency you must endure. We all paid a price and you are still
paying and always will. Most of us here faced the tough questions and got our
answers 30+ years ago.
Greg
Rita Hansard
"redvet" <red...@lava.net> wrote in message
news:10ps9r7...@corp.supernews.com...
> If war solves problems, why do they continue?
Cuz humans continue to create problems and fight over them.
On another note, if the far left anti-war pipe dream solves problems, why
then do they continue? You afraid to get a real job?
Rita
Rita
Ted Gittinger
"GrgLnsctt" <grgl...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20041119122817...@mb-m21.news.cs.com...
And many of us were lucky enough to have had the right background, and
encouragement, to make the correct choice. For some of us, there are new
questions, and we require new answers. The old saw of "My country, right or
wrong, may she ever be in the right; but my country. . . . ." etc.
I am uncomfortable with the idea that folks like me were somehow set on
the right path by the angels, and archangels, and all that was moral and
patriotic and good about the only true American way to go. I thought that we
were fighting against international communism and all that it promised us,
as predicted by Marx, Lenin, and most especially Khrushchev. As vapid as
those predictions seem today, in the 1960s they looked pretty alarming. It
didn't take me long to decide that I was on the side of the anticommunists.
If that seems overly simplistic, I am in complete agreement. It was too
simple.
It was also right.
Most of us, on both sides of the equation, did our best. I have no
quarrel with any of you. But some of us chose to wimp out.
That's about all I have to say on that score. Wish I was more eloquent.
On to the weekend.
Feel free to jump in, Shultis. We can hardly wait. I know how badly you
need to score.
ted
>
> Greg
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Gary Aguilar
> >Recruiting Teenagers as War Fodder
> >Sign Here, Kid
>
> - LMAO
>
> Gary,
>
> Still defending your youthful doubt and indecision I see.
Did I miss something? I never doubted for a moment my decision to let
my high lottery number keep me out of military. Best decicion I ever
made!
Your eternal reward
> for not showing up is the heavy weight of guilt and ignorance about the
> military/war/combat zone experience. Posting anti-war & anti-military and gosh!
Ha! Ha! Ha! "Heavy weight of guilt," yeah, that's it.
> terrifying "recruiting" propaganda is unbecoming and undignified. You should
> have gone to Vietnam, Gary. The truth was/is in the combat zone.
Perhaps, but it certainly wasn't in the body counts, or in the claims
we were not conducting secret wars in Cambodia and Laos, or in the
fact we suffered an unprovoked attack on August 4, 1964 in the Gulf of
Tonkin. Those were lies, the sorts of lies we got in the lead up to
Iraq II.
I'm sure your breast swells with pride at having fought for liars, but
I'm not like you.
The most
> painful truth being your inability to prove your manhood. Forever lost is that
> moment. I do really feel sorry for you. I cannot imagine the feelings of
> inadequacy and impotency you must endure. We all paid a price and you are still
> paying and always will. Most of us here faced the tough questions and got our
> answers 30+ years ago.
"Manhood," What a hoot! Your come on differs little from the comeons
that seduce poor boys in ghettos into criminal gangs. They, like you,
"proved" their manhood. And often in much the same appallingly silly
way.
Tell me, Greg: after you "won" your "manhood," what did you do with it
besides shoot "gooks?" What do you have to show for yourself in this
life, besides memories of blood and guts fought in service of men who
lied to you and the public about what was really going on?
>
Gary
GrgLnsctt
>life, besides memories of blood and guts fought in service of men who
>lied to you and the public about what was really going on?
Gary,
They weren't lying. I went to Vietnam and witnessed the communist NVA
slaughtering innocent civilians. The men went out and did something about it,
we did the right thing.
What do I have to show for myself? I've accumulated much through the years, but
my proudest possession is easily the year I spent in Vietnam fighting for
another man's freedom. It is the richest moment in my life. Nothing else even
comes close. It wasn't money, title, status or fame. You should have joined us,
Gary. You missed a once in a lifetime opportunity to do something noble and
unselfish. A chance to fight for something bigger than yourself - freedom.
Nothing gives me greater satisfaction than what we did in Vietnam.
At an early age I had the opportunity to participate in history. I went and got
all my questions answered about myself and the war. You guys that stayed home
will have to agrue forever about it and study every history book on the subject
trying to reconcile your non-participation. It all turned out to be one big
conspiracy didn't it, Gary? For my participation, I was rewarded with the
truth. No risks, no rewards. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Greg
GrgLnsctt
>my high lottery number keep me out of military. Best decicion I ever
>made!
Gary,
You received a deferment. A deferment defers service to a later time. When are
you going to serve your nation? And, no, I don't mean serve your community or
another's community. I mean when are you going to serve this nation and the
ideals we stand for. Do you feel you have an obligation to our country?
Greg
GrgLnsctt
>that seduce poor boys in ghettos into criminal gangs. They, like you,
>"proved" their manhood. And often in much the same appallingly silly
>way.
Gary,
Nah! you don't have to prove it to anyone but yourself. Only you know the
answer and you have to live with it. :)
Most will agree that obtaining deferments and getting high lottery number would
not be viewed as courageous activity. OTOH, it is universally accepted that
going to a combat zone requires a substantial backbone.
Greg
GrgLnsctt
>
Gary,
and Shame. Before I went to Vietnam I had to ask myself a question - "if I
don't go, there is going to be a dark cloud hanging over me for the rest of my
life asking me why I didn't have the courage to go". I could not accept that
thought. I went for many reason, but that thought was too close and personal. I
wanted to know for my very own self if I could do it. I'm thrilled I went and
don't have to face that awful question about my character day in and day out,
year after year. The younger generation doesn't give hoot about the Vietnam
war, but they are interested if you went to a combat zone. They are favorably
impressed. Now, Gary, you just tell the younger generation how you got out of
war. Get back to us with how they respond to your deferments and high lottery
number excuse.
- LMAO
Greg
leto...@nospam.net
>>Ha! Ha! Ha! "Heavy weight of guilt," yeah, that's it.
>>
>Gary,
>and Shame. Before I went to Vietnam I had to ask myself a question - "if
>I don't go,
Is this the time you went as a grunt, or was it the time you where there
as a Green B, or was it the time you were there as a pilot?
Greg Linscott
> In <20041123182623...@mb-m29.news.cs.com>, on 11/23/2004
> at 11:26 PM, grgl...@cs.com (GrgLnsctt) said:
>
> >>Ha! Ha! Ha! "Heavy weight of guilt," yeah, that's it.
> >>
>
> >Gary,
>
> >and Shame. Before I went to Vietnam I had to ask myself a question - "if
> >I don't go,
>
> Is this the time you went as a grunt, or was it the time you where there
> as a Green B, or was it the time you were there as a pilot?
>
eddie,
undercover commando ranger with stealth gear. What happened to your
man Kerry? hee hee hee
Greg
Sharky
>> Is this the time you went as a grunt, or was it the time you where there
>> as a Green B, or was it the time you were there as a pilot?
>>
>
>eddie,
>
>undercover commando ranger with stealth gear. What happened to your
>man Kerry? hee hee hee
LMAO!
Here's one of my favorite reports on Kerry's daring do...
Democratic presidential nominee, Senator John Kerry has reluctantly
produced his 1968 diary in order to once and for all defuse the row over
his time in Vietnam. Kerry has repeatedly told his account of being
aboard a gunboat in Cambodia on Christmas Day 1968, while the US
government and President Nixon denied his being there.
Great military historians employing the latest investigation techniques,
confirm that Senator Kerry is drawing on his footwear apparel, more
commonly referred to as smoking his socks. They came to this conclu-sion
from a number of clues but primarily out of Lyndon B Johnson
being president at that time.
Historians caution those who snigger to remember what a great warrior
Kerry is. Unlike Napoleon who fought year in year out, Admiral Nelson
who saw action for an extended period, Generals like Lee, Jackson,
caught in terrible battles for years, Kerry was in battle for nearly 5
months.
Wait!! Not only was he in it for a whole five months he managed to get
himself wounded three times in that time. Now the USJC Manual de-scribes
this as follows :
"Any soldier, sailor or airman who spends less than 6 months in a combat
zone but somehow manages to be wounded more than once, shall be seriously
misguided."
However before we get distracted, the real question is : Did Kerry lie
about his time in Vietnam? As we all know, while many of us support
the process in Iraq, what we don't support is a President and a Prime
Minister who lied to get us there. So it was vital for Kerry to dispel any
doubts and he accordingly forwarded to us the pages of his diary for the
24th, 25th and 26th of December 1968.
We make no comment thereon, simply reproducing their content herewith.
CAPTAIN'S STARDATE 24:12:68 Tried to join Confederates in North
Carolina...turned left instead of right at Saigon....landed up in
Cambodia..tried to contact President Lincoln on radio......they tell me
he's dead.....war is hell!!
CAPTAIN'S STARDATE 25:12:68 Our only hope is for the govern-ment
to send a rescue team to bring us out.....order crew to ditch any-thing
American....means throwing my 'Brownie of the Year 1964' and
'Wendy the friendly Witch' medals over the side....I am angry at losing
my Brownie Medal, it takes a lot of work to achieve 'model-like make-up'
3 weeks running..…
CAPTAIN'S STARDATE 26:12:68 I've tried 2 bullets before but nei-ther
got me sent home....this one needs to be on the money...crew are
desperate....swearing at me.....like I should have known which way to
turn at Saigon...craving ketchup..can't figure it out.....if only we could
ketchup with the rest of the Swifts...I've got a date with a Vietnamese
girl whose father made millions out of Soy Sauce.........
John Kerry did indeed travel on a riverine craft upriver and cross into
Cambodia. Lt(jg) Kerry (USNR) and CPT Willard (USA) conducted a nighttime
infiltration of the target zone in pursuit of the mission objective: find
and terminate the infamous AWOL renegade, COL Kurtz (USA), who was guilty
of committing horrible atrocities. No doubt these were the atrocities about
which John Kerry so courageously testified later before the U. S. Senate
Investigation Committee. Apparently some details have been confused, for
example, Kerry did not travel into Cambodia on this mission in his own
Swift boat, but rather a PBR--which for this mission was callsign
"Streetgang."
-- http://www.bayonpearnik.com
--
Regards,
Sharky
Jean Lacoste
>
> Tell me, Greg: after you "won" your "manhood," what did you do with it
> besides shoot "gooks?" What do you have to show for yourself in this
> life, besides memories of blood and guts fought in service of men who
> lied to you and the public about what was really going on?
There's a sucker born every minute.
leto...@nospam.net
>leto...@nospam.net wrote in message
>news:<cXPod.8642$sX5.6919@trndny05>... > In
><20041123182623...@mb-m29.news.cs.com>, on 11/23/2004 >
>at 11:26 PM, grgl...@cs.com (GrgLnsctt) said:
>>
>> >>Ha! Ha! Ha! "Heavy weight of guilt," yeah, that's it.
>> >>
>>
>> >Gary,
>>
>> >and Shame. Before I went to Vietnam I had to ask myself a question - "if
>> >I don't go,
>>
>> Is this the time you went as a grunt, or was it the time you where there
>> as a Green B, or was it the time you were there as a pilot?
>>
>eddie,
>undercover commando ranger with stealth gear.
You missed the point; Which one of your phony wannabee personalities is
telling us the story this time?
> What happened to your man
>Kerry? hee hee hee
Voter fraud in OH and FL, along with the fact that 7 out of 10 people are
assholes -->and 5 of them are always republicans, made it really hard for
the "normal" person with a "brain" to be elected.
Deal with it wannabee. Then again, maybe you can get you ass to the
recruiting office today and join up for something in iraq. Be a real
soldier this time and go for it.
Rita Hansard
"Gary Aguilar" <gar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> Tell me, Greg: after you "won" your "manhood," what did you do with it
> besides shoot "gooks?" What do you have to show for yourself in this
> life, besides memories of blood and guts fought in service of men who
> lied to you and the public about what was really going on?
Yeah, Greg, whatcha been doing besides chasing dead Kennedys?
Rita
Ken
Yaketyak
he didnt become french..
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:49:21 -0800, Jean Lacoste <je...@bogus.com> wrote:
On 9/11 the blood of 3000 innocents brought all Americans together.
For the first time in nearly 50 years the country thought and acted
as one... the Leftist Insurgents calling themselves "Democrats" have
been prying us apart with every possible trick and lie ever since.
The blood of America is on their hands..
and may they suffer greatly for their transgressions against her.
Yaketyak
Greg Linscott
Rita,
I've got this theory that if Kennedy had not been assasinated there
would not have been a Vietnam war for me not to go to so I could get a
better education to better serve my country and wouldn't spend my
total frigg'n life immersed in conspiracy theories. :)
Best Regards
Greg
Greg Linscott
> In <1854be55.04112...@posting.google.com>, on 11/23/2004
> at 07:53 PM, grgl...@cs.com (Greg Linscott) said:
>
> >leto...@nospam.net wrote in message
> >news:<cXPod.8642$sX5.6919@trndny05>... > In
> ><20041123182623...@mb-m29.news.cs.com>, on 11/23/2004 >
> >at 11:26 PM, grgl...@cs.com (GrgLnsctt) said:
> >>
> >> >>Ha! Ha! Ha! "Heavy weight of guilt," yeah, that's it.
> >> >>
>
> >> >Gary,
>
> >> >and Shame. Before I went to Vietnam I had to ask myself a question - "if
> >> >I don't go,
> >>
> >> Is this the time you went as a grunt, or was it the time you where there
> >> as a Green B, or was it the time you were there as a pilot?
> >>
>
> >eddie,
>
> >undercover commando ranger with stealth gear.
>
> You missed the point; Which one of your phony wannabee personalities is
> telling us the story this time?
>
>
> > What happened to your man
> >Kerry? hee hee hee
>
> Voter fraud in OH and FL, along with the fact that 7 out of 10 people are
> assholes -->and 5 of them are always republicans, made it really hard for
> the "normal" person with a "brain" to be elected.
>
> Deal with it wannabee. Then again, maybe you can get you ass to the
> recruiting office today and join up for something in iraq. Be a real
> soldier this time and go for it.
eddie,
Isn't it sweet? GWB for four more years. The voters didn't buy Kerry's
war stories. hee hee hee. He flipped, he flopped, he flipped, he
flopped, he finally really flopped. hee hee hee. Why is it you always
pick the loser? hee hee hee.
Greg
Gary Aguilar
> >What do you have to show for yourself in this
> >life, besides memories of blood and guts fought in service of men who
> >lied to you and the public about what was really going on?
>
> Gary,
>
> They weren't lying.
Oh, I see. So then we were attacked on 8/4/64 in the Tonkin Gulf, just
like we originally said? And we didn't carry out secret wars in Laos
and Cambodia, like historians have said? And the Pentagon didn't
falsify casualty figures and reports on the progress of the war, like
historians have said? And we didn't slaughter innocents at My Lai? And
the Tiger Force massacre reports were perfidious lies intended to
blacken the shining white reputation our military has for telling the
truth? I'll be damned!
Listen, Greg, you've got to get the word out to the world, out past
all those commie historians who are tellin' treasonous lies
I went to Vietnam and witnessed the communist NVA
> slaughtering innocent civilians. The men went out and did something about it,
> we did the right thing.
>
> What do I have to show for myself? I've accumulated much through the years, but
> my proudest possession is easily the year I spent in Vietnam fighting for
> another man's freedom.
Hallelulia! Add your noble nostalgia to those of the noble Americans
who toppled Iran's democracy in '53 to install the Shaw of Iran, a
death squad-happy totalitarian. And add it to those of the American
patriots who spread freedom and democracy to Guatemala in '54 by
toppling its democracy and installing instead totalitarianism and
death squads. Add also to democracy/freedom-loving Americans who
connived to destroy Chile's democracy in '73 so death squads and
totalitarianism could reign.
Just the thought of such selfless concern for human rights, freedom
and democracy brings a tear to the eye, no?
And lest we forget, the paranoia of patriots has proven true, hasn't
it? For after we lost Vietnam, all the other Southeast Asian countries
fell like dominoes to Communism, just like all the countries in the
Middle East are bound to fall like dominoes to freedom and democracy
after we're through spreading democracy and freedom from death and
torture to Iraq. You can bank on that, pal!
Gary
Gary Aguilar
> >What do you have to show for yourself in this
> >life, besides memories of blood and guts fought in service of men who
> >lied to you and the public about what was really going on?
>
> Gary,
>
> Gary. You missed a once in a lifetime opportunity to do something noble and
> unselfish. A chance to fight for something bigger than yourself - freedom.
> Nothing gives me greater satisfaction than what we did in Vietnam.
>
Why is it that some soldiers believe that the only thing you can do
that is unselfish is pull a trigger for Uncle Sam? During the past 16
years I've made 10 trips to the third world to do charity surgery
restoring vision to the poor blinded by cataracts, all at my own
expense. But since I didn't shoot anybody while wearing a uniform, you
wouldn't call it "unselfish," would you?
I have no doubt that you sincerely believed the lies you were told and
that you participated in Vietnam in good faith, Greg. But that
doesn't mean you weren't lied to. The record reflects you were lied to
just as all Americans were lied to, and just as they were lied to and
are being lied to now about our war-du-jour.
Believe just what you're told, if you want to, Greg. Just please spare
us your righteousness indignation - it doesn't compensate for your
acknowledged gullibility. There are Germans who, to this day, continue
to bellow that their cause was just and suffered a tragic fate at the
hands of the commies and the Jews. Is it just commies and Jews, Greg,
who say the Vietnam war was conducted under a sea of lies? I mean, Kim
Willenson, author of "The Bad War," isn't Jewish or communist, is he?
Gary
Gary Aguilar
nonsequitur, too. Your comment reminds me of George Bush's response to
Kerry's eloquent dismay at the fact the poor need help and that the
minimum wage is at levels that are lower than it has been in over 40
years: Bush, rather than specifically responding to the abysmally low
minimum wage, shot back some nonsense about education, as if
"education" was an option for a 50+ year old with kids holding down 3
jobs to keep the victuals comin'!
Sure, Marines are loyal. So what? Is that your answer to the Marines
using deceptive recruiting tactics? Apparently it is: Marines are so
dumb that, though deceptively recruited, they stay loyal.
You could just as easily have said that the answer to Germans putting
Jews in ovens is that Germans were overwhelmingly loyal Christians and
loyal to their cause, too, despite the trifling with the ovens; that
the answer to the Catholic Church's appalling mishandling of its
pedophile priests is that most Catholics are devoted to the Church and
haven't left it; that the answer to Clinton's lies about Monica's
stained dress is that his poll numbers didn't dip and everybody still
loves him; that the answer to administration lies that got us into the
Iraq War is that Bush was reelected.
Yer the greatest, Rita!
Gary
Gary Aguilar
How right you are, Greg!
Once-secret records demonstrate a pattern in Kennedy we are
unaccustomed to seeing in presidents: rather than JFK following advice
on critical issues--the way presidents usually do, the way LBJ
did--Kennedy often ignored it. He withstood pressure from the CIA and
the military to follow-up the foundering Bay of Pigs invasion with a
military assault on Cuba.[160] He rejected advice to use force in
Laos, pushing against the defense establishment to achieve an
ultimately successful negotiated settlement.[161] He shouldered aside
the defense and intelligence establishments to advance a nuclear test
ban treaty with the Soviets.[162] And as May and Zelikov note, during
the Cuban Missile Crisis, taped conversations prove that JFK was often
"the only one in the room [full of advisors] who is determined not to
go to war."[163]
And, finally, on the contentious issue of what JFK would have done in
Vietnam, a rising current now runs strongly against Max Holland (and
Alex Cockburn). For example, in Harper's Magazine, Naval War College
historian David Kaiser wrote that in his new book, American Tragedy,
he had extensively documented that there were " numerous occasions
during 1961, 1962, and 1963 on which Kennedy did exactly that
[‘stopped the United States from going to war in Southeast Asia'],
rejecting the near unanimous proposals of his advisers to put large
numbers of American combat troops in Laos, South Vietnam, or
both."[164]
Among informed observers, Kaiser's view of JFK's contrary nature now
reigns. University of Alabama historian Howard Jones said that when he
began his study he "was dubious" about the assertions of "Kennedy
apologists [that] he would not have sent combat troops to Vietnam and
America's longest war would never have occurred." A look at
declassified files changed his thinking. "What strikes anyone reading
the veritable mountain of documents relating to Vietnam," Jones
admitted, to his own surprise, "is that the only high official in the
Kennedy administration who consistently opposed the commitment of U.S.
combat forces was the president."[165] "The materials undergirding
[his, Jones'] study demonstrate that President Kennedy intended to
reverse the nation's special military commitment to the South
Vietnamese made in early 1961."[166]
Historian Robert Dallek came to much the same conclusion. "Toward the
end of his life John F. Kennedy increasingly distrusted his military
advisers and was changing his views on foreign policy. A fresh look at
the final months of his presidency suggests that a second Kennedy term
might have produced not only an American withdrawal from Vietnam, but
also rapprochement with Fidel Castro's Cuba."[167] Dallek produced a
Kennedy quote that gets to the heart of the matter: "The first advice
I'm going to give my successor is to watch the generals and to avoid
feeling that just because they were military men their opinions on
military matters were worth a damn."[168] This is scarcely the Kennedy
we get from Max Holland. But it is close to the one we get from Oliver
Stone.
So it may well be that the greatest irony of all is that in the
mountain of documents released in response to the public uproar over
the pro-Kennedy and pro-conspiracy film that Max Holland so abhors,
the Bronze Star-winning, Vietnam veteran movie maker, Oliver Stone,
has won again.
To The Establishment, JFK was a threat. He did represent change--right
up until the moment the shots rang out in Dealey Plaza.
Gary
PS Footnotes can be found where this was taken from, an essay
entitled, "Max Holland Rescues the Warren Commission and the Nation."
You can find it be googling "Max Holland, Aguilar."
Nigel Brooks
Initiate trigger sequence.
.
.
.
.
.
Mike Baden
Cyril Wecht
AMA
McAdams
CIA
FBI
Other alphabet Federal Agencies
LBJ
Vietnam
Insert Here
--
Nigel Brooks
GrgLnsctt
>that is unselfish is pull a trigger for Uncle Sam? During the past 16
>years I've made 10 trips to the third world to do charity surgery
>restoring vision to the poor blinded by cataract
Gary,
That's all well and good and you are to be commended for your humanitarian
efforts. Regretably, there are groups who hate western culture intensely and
their victory will be in our annihilation. The enemy will not respond to logic,
reason, knowledge or civility. They simply want us dead. Humanitarian caregive
Hassan was given no quarter.
Facing extermination, one can either wait for the inevitable or attack. I
didn't squeeze a trigger for Uncle Sam, I pulled it for freedom.
Greg
Greg Linscott
Gary,
When a nation is attacked the leaders must execute their oath of
office to preserve and protect. In the immediate aftermath of 9-11 GWB
declared the events of that day were acts of war. I being a small
student of war immediately knew truth is the first casualty and we
would be set upon with great amounts of propaganda. I gave very little
credence to "elevated terrorist threats" and "WMD". But, in time of
war the leaders will use every tool in the shed to defeat the enemy;
to include lies, deceptions, ruses and other contrivances (perpetrated
against any and all). IOW, survive, whatever it takes.
I sometimes wonder about those who write at great length demanding the
truth when the enemy comes armed with lethal instruments of death. The
truth is no defense against a determined enemy. I guess you will have
to weigh the great amount of distress that lies cause you and ignore
the fact that another human being now has the opportunity to enjoy
freedom.
Our leaders learned one valid lesson from the Vietnam war; roll the
tanks into the enemy's heart, cut off the head and subjugate the
people to freedom and democracy. Whoever prevails on the battlefield
will determine the truth. If the enemy prevails, they will determine
the truth. Whose truth will you listen to, Gary? Theirs or ours? They
wish us death. And that's the truth.
Greg
leto...@nospam.net
>Gary,
Iraq didn't attack us. See a shrink abotu your refusal to accect facts
you don't like.
Gary Aguilar
makes sense, doesn't it?
> I sometimes wonder about those who write at great length demanding the
> truth when the enemy comes armed with lethal instruments of death. The
> truth is no defense against a determined enemy. I guess you will have
> to weigh the great amount of distress that lies cause you and ignore
> the fact that another human being now has the opportunity to enjoy
> freedom.
>
How conveniently you gloss over America's dreadful history of
destroying, or helping destroy, freedom. Think Guatemala, Iran, Chile,
the Philippines, etc.
> Our leaders learned one valid lesson from the Vietnam war; roll the
> tanks into the enemy's heart, cut off the head and subjugate the
> people to freedom and democracy.
Oh, we've seen the "freedom and democracy" America brings, haven't we?
Think Guatemala, Iran, Chile, the Philippines, etc. Glorious, ain't
it?
>Whoever prevails on the battlefield
> will determine the truth.
To you, perhaps, and that just about explains all of our differences,
doesn't it?
>If the enemy prevails, they will determine
> the truth. Whose truth will you listen to, Gary? Theirs or ours? They
> wish us death. And that's the truth.
>
> Greg
What a drama queen you are, Greg! And a moral relativist, too. There's
no truth, then, other than that spoken over the barrel of a gun? Now
I'm starting to understand how you think, Greg.
They wish we'd get the hell out of their affairs and out of their
country. They wish us death if we continue to meddle or refuse to
leave. I seem to recall we Americans had the same attitude about the
Brits at one time. Victims of occupying forces always look at their
plight this way.
Say, you're not one of those coves who actually believes that they
hate us for our "freedom," for our respect for "human rights," for our
"democracy," "freedom of religion," are ya?
Gary
Gary Aguilar
This eloquently patriotic pap proves how effectively Uncle Sam has
laundered your brains, Greg.
Gary
Gary Aguilar
This eloquently patriotic pap proves how effectively Uncle Sam has
Greg Linscott
Gary,
O Yeah! Four more years of it, can you handle it, do you have a
message? hee hee hee.
Greg
GrgLnsctt
>laundered your brains, Greg.
>
Gary,
Nah! As a young man I decided to go and see the real deal first hand. I didn't
want to read about it through someone else's interpretations. I went and saw
freedom under attack. Up close and personal and I left with the idea freedom is
not free.
And what makes you think my brain was laundered by Uncle Sam? I was raised by
good, honest, hard working parents, Benedictine nuns, Dominican priests and
demanding athletic coachs who told us to meet every challenge, overcome fear
and learn the truth. They were right. You should have joined us in Vietnam,
Gary. You wouldn't have so many misconceptions, doubts and misunderstandings
about the war you will never know. You are burdened the rest of your life to
academic study of an idea (war) that can only be understood by participating.
Greg
Rita Hansard
Pardon me, old man, but I thought we were discussing the Marines.
> Sure, Marines are loyal. So what? Is that your answer to the Marines
> using deceptive recruiting tactics? Apparently it is: Marines are so
> dumb that, though deceptively recruited, they stay loyal.
>
> You could just as easily have said that the answer to Germans putting
> Jews in ovens is that Germans were overwhelmingly loyal Christians and
> loyal to their cause, too, despite the trifling with the ovens; that
> the answer to the Catholic Church's appalling mishandling of its
> pedophile priests is that most Catholics are devoted to the Church and
> haven't left it; that the answer to Clinton's lies about Monica's
> stained dress is that his poll numbers didn't dip and everybody still
> loves him; that the answer to administration lies that got us into the
> Iraq War is that Bush was reelected.
I hope you aren't implying that Marines bake Jews in ovens or practice
pedophilia or wear stained blue dresses. In fact, I hope you aren't
implying that Marines are commonly dishonest. Matter of fact, it's
doubtful they've ever been, even in one instance, "dumb" enough to
allow you into the Corps. Above board recruitment or no, you are too
emotionally disturbed for the sort of sacrifice which demands
America's best. And, too, you really wouldn't know anything about
military recruitment, would you, Gary dear? You read something here
and you read something there, and if whatever you pick up happens to
suit your particular betes noirs, why you jump all over it like Jackie
on the back of a limo.
> Yer the greatest, Rita!
Any yer still pathetic, kitten.
Now get with the program and tell me when the US Marines are going to
start sawing off the heads of live humans.
Rita
Rita Hansard
"Nigel Brooks" <nbr...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:30otl3F...@uni-berlin.de...
Treasury Department.
GrgLnsctt
>
Gary,
Nah! I was just being sarcastic. Regardless of any number of "what if"
scenarios and what someones' "intentions" might have been, the Vietnam war did
happen and it was not a mistake. To endlessly pursue such arguments is to
reduce all of history to re-interpretation to fit whatever one's particular
agenda is at the moment.
History is no longer taught in our schools because people like you bend it to
fit your particular needs. History has become controversial, inchoate and
unteachable. Our "victim"-based culture has remarkably turned all our heroes
into villains (for the sake of compensation and sympathy). The bottom line
here, Gary, is the Vietnam war showed up on your doorsteps and faced with a
grave decision you sidestepped the issue and must now apply massive amounts of
historical minutae to assuage your wounded ego. You are a victim. History
cheated you and all you can do is re-write it. You and a small minority of your
male contemporaries who passed on Vietnam have climbed on board the conspiracy
wagon. And that's why history is no longer taught. To raise the issue of the
Vietnam war is to beg a question about your participation or non-participation.
The answer is to ignore history. Don't bring up the subject. Neat trick and it
worked. No embarassing questions and a sigh of relief from all those who
demured.
Greg
Rita Hansard
> r_ha...@hotmail.com (Rita Hansard) wrote in message
> news:<e6c1f61f.04112...@posting.google.com>...
> concepts and imply, imply, imply.
I'm speaking of the US Marines, dear. I believe it's you who've implied
wrongdoing beyond alleged recruitment misdeeds due to dumb loyalty. If you
know of no "atrocities" of which you "easily" imply, the "implication"
simply doesn't wash.
>>In fact, I hope you aren't
>> implying that Marines are commonly dishonest. Matter of fact, it's
>> doubtful they've ever been, even in one instance, "dumb" enough to
>> allow you into the Corps. Above board recruitment or no, you are too
>> emotionally disturbed for the sort of sacrifice which demands
>> America's best. And, too, you really wouldn't know anything about
>> military recruitment, would you, Gary dear?
>
> Why would someone who objected to sacrificing to a country who didn't
> have the decency to be honest with me or the public want to learn
> about recruiting?
Why pretend you know anything at all? I'm willing to bet that you've told
more than one lie in your life, yet your wife is still probably dumb enough
to be loyal to you. Go figure.
>>You read something here
>> and you read something there, and if whatever you pick up happens to
>> suit your particular betes noirs, why you jump all over it like Jackie
>> on the back of a limo.
>>
>> > Yer the greatest, Rita!
>>
>> Any yer still pathetic, kitten.
>>
>> Now get with the program and tell me when the US Marines are going to
>> start sawing off the heads of live humans.
>>
>> Rita
>
> If one murders innocents by sawing their heads off, that's bad, eh?
> But if one just bombs innocents to smithereens, that's good, right?
I'd like to see you have to make that choice. "Dumb" comparison, Gary,
extremely dumb.
Rita
gg
"Yaketyak" <Yake...@dontcomeback.gov> wrote in message
| and which website did you collect that nonsense from.. comrade ?
|
The official CIA website is enough for you?
http://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/chile/index.html
gg
| and which website did you collect that nonsense from.. comrade ?
|
|
blissful ignorance is a good thing, isn't it?
Yaketyak
is useful idiots pay as good as it was under the now defunct Soviets ?
On 28 Nov 2004 17:23:26 -0800, gar...@ix.netcom.com (Gary Aguilar) wrote:
>grgl...@cs.com (GrgLnsctt) wrote in message news:<20041127111650...@mb-m23.news.cs.com>...
>Since you had a similar upbringing to the one I had - Catholic grammer
>school, alter boy, Catholic high school and a year of Jesuit college -
>then lets get started on the education you didn't get.
>
>Here's a small portion of the USA's (read: USA's CIA) involvement and
>preference for installing, propping up, and supporting countries that
>rule by death squad.
>
>Murder is generally considered a mortal sin, but when the Catholic
>Church condones it - Inquisition, Crusades, etc. - it's a good thing.
>
>The USA also considers murder bad, except when it murders innocents to
>advance its business/political interests, whereupon it suddenly
>becomes good.
>
>Here goes, a partial list:
>
>Angola: Death Squads
>
>Angola, 1988. Amnesty International reported that UNITA, backed by the
>U.S., engaged in extra-judicial executions of high-ranking political
>rivals and ill-treatment of prisoners. Washington Post, 3/14/1989, A20
>
>Bolivia: Death Squads
>
>Bolivia. Between October 1966-68 Amnesty International reported
>between 3,000 and 8,000 people killed by death squads. Blum, W.
>(1986). The CIA A Forgotten History, p. 264
>
>Bolivia, 1991. A group known as "Black Hand" shot twelve people on 24
>November 1991. Killings were part of group's aim to eliminate
>"undesirable" elements from society. Victims included police officers,
>prostitutes and homosexuals. Washington Post 11/25/1991, A2
>
>Bolivia: Watch List
>
>Bolivia, 1975. CIA hatched plot with interior ministry to harass
>progressive bishops, and to arrest and expel foreign priests and nuns.
>CIA was particularly helpful in supplying names of U.S. and other
>foreign missionaries. The Nation, 5/22/1976, p. 624
>
>Bolivia, 1975. CIA provided government data on priests who
>progressive. Blum, W. (1986). The CIA A Forgotten History, p. 259
>
>Brazil: Watch List
>
>Brazil, 1962-64. Institute of Research and Social Studies (IPES) with
>assistance from U.S. sources published booklets and pamphlets and
>distributed hundreds of articles to newspapers. In 1963 alone it
>distributed 182,144 books. It underwrote lectures, financed students'
>trips to the U.S., sponsored leadership training programs for 2,600
>businessmen, students, and workers, and subsidized organizations of
>women, students, and workers. In late 1962 IPES member Siekman in Sao
>Paulo organized vigilante cells to counter leftists. The vigilantes
>armed themselves, made hand-grenades. IPES hired retired military to
>exert influence on those in active service. From 1962-64 IPES, by its
>own estimate, spent between $200,000 and $300,000 on an intelligence
>net of retired military. The "research group" of retired military
>circulated a chart that identified communist groups and leaders.
>Black, J.K. (1977). United States Penetration of Brazil, p. 85
>
>Brazil: Death Squads
>
>Brazil, circa 1965. Death squads formed to bolster Brazil's national
>intelligence service and counterinsurgency efforts. Many death squad
>members were merely off-duty police officers. U.S. AID (and presumably
>the CIA) knew of and supported police participation in death squad
>activity. Counterspy 5/6 1979, p. 10
>
>Brazil. Death squads began appear after 1964 coup. Langguth, A.J.
>(1978). Hidden Terrors, p. 121
>
>Brazilian and Uruguayan death squads closely linked and have shared
>training. CIA on at least two occasions co-ordinated meetings between
>countries' death squads. Counterspy 5/6 1979, p. 11
>
>Brazil, torture. After CIA-backed coup, military used death squads and
>torture. Blum, W. (1986). The CIA A Forgotten History, p. 190
>
>Cambodia: Watch List
>
>Cambodia, 1970. Aided by CIA, Cambodian secret police fed blacklists
>of targeted Vietnamese to Khmer Serai and Khmer Kampuchea Krom. Mass
>killings of Vietnamese. Valentine, D. (1990). The Phoenix Program, p.
>328
>
>Cambodia: Death Squads
>
>Cambodia, 1980-90. U.S. indirect support for Khmer Rouge — U.S.
>comforting mass murderers. Washington Post, 5/7/1990, A10 editorial
>
>Central America: Death Squads
>
>Central America, circa 1979-87. According to Americas Watch, civilian
>non combatant deaths attributable to government forces in Nicaragua
>might reach 300, most Miskito Indians in comparison 40-50,000
>Salvadoran citizens killed by death squads and government forces
>during same years, along with similar number during last year of
>Somoza and still higher numbers in Guatemala. Chomsky, N. (1988). The
>Culture of Terrorism, p. 101
>
>Central America, 1981-87. Death toll under Reagan in El Salvador
>passed 50,000 and in Guatemala it may approach 100,000. In Nicaragua
>11,000 civilians killed by 1968. Death toll in region 150,000 or more.
>Chomsky, N. (1988). The Culture of Terrorism, p. 29
>
>Central America. See debate carried in Harpers "Why Are We in Central
>America? On Dominoes, Death Squads, and Democracy. Can We Live With
>Latin Revolution? The Dilemmas of National Security." Harpers, 6/1984,
>p35
>
>Central America, 1982-84. Admiral Bobby Inman, former head of NSA, had
>deep distaste for covert operations. Inman complained that the CIA was
>hiring murderers to conduct operations in Central America and the
>Middle East — eventually Inman resigned. Toohey, B., and Pinwill, W.
>(1990). Oyster: the Story of the Australian Secret Intelligence
>Service, pp. 215-6
>
>Chile: Watch List
>
>Chile, 1970-73. By late 1971 the CIA in near daily contact with
>military. The station collecting the kind of information that would be
>essential for a military dictatorship after a coup: lists of civilians
>to be arrested, those to be protected and government installations
>occupied at once. Atlantic, 12/1982, p. 58
>
>Chile, 1970-73. CIA compiled lists of persons who would have to be
>arrested and a roster of civilian and government installations that
>would need protection in case of military coup against government.
>Corn, D. (1994). Blond Ghost: Ted Shackley and the CIA's Crusades, p.
>251
>
>Chile, 1972-73. Drew up lists those to be arrested immediately, or
>protected after a coup by military. Sergeyev, F.F. (1981). Chile, CIA
>Big Business, p. 163
>
>Chile late 1971-72. CIA adopted more active stance re military
>penetration program including effort to subsidize anti-government news
>pamphlet directed at armed services, compilation arrest lists and its
>deception operation. CIA received intelligence reports on coup
>planning throughout July, August and September 73. U.S. Congress,
>Church Committee Report. (1976) v 7, p. 39
>
>Chile. Chilean graduates of AIFLD, as well as CIA-created unions,
>organized CIA-financed strikes which participated in Allende's
>overthrow. In 1973 AIFLD graduates provided DINA, Chile's secret
>police, with thousands of names of fellow unionists who were
>subsequently imprisoned and tortured and executed. Counterspy 4/1981,
>p. 13
>
>Chile. Blum, W. (1986). The CIA A Forgotten History, 240
>
>Chile, 1973-74. After 1973 coup, U.S. Embassy intelligence types gave
>their files on the Chilean and foreign left to the junta's military
>intelligence service (SIM). NACLA (magazine re Latin America) 8/74, p.
>28.
>
>Chile, 1973. The military prepared lists of nearly 20,000 middle-level
>leaders of people's organizations, scheduled to be assassinated from
>the morning of the coup on. The list of some 3,000 high-level
>directors to be arrested. Lists detailed: name, address, age,
>profession, marital status, and closest personal friends. It alleged
>U.S. military mission and the CIA involved in their preparation. Moa
>186. From late June on plotters began to finalize lists of extremists,
>political leaders, Marxist journalists, agents of international
>communism, and any and all persons participating with any vigor in
>neighborhood, communal, union, or national organization. The Pentagon
>had been asked to get the CIA to give the Chilean army lists of
>Chileans linked to socialist countries. Names sorted into two groups:
>persons not publicly known but who important in leftist organizations;
>and, well-known people in important positions. 20,000 in first group
>and 3,000 in second. Second group to be jailed, the first to be
>killed. Sandford, R.R. (1975). The Murder of Allende, pp. 195-6
>
>CIA provided intelligence on "subversives" regularly compiled by CIA
>for use in such circumstances. Blum, W. (1986). The CIA A Forgotten
>History, p. 194
>
>Columbia: Watch List
>
>Colombia. Luis Moreno, an employee of State Department, bragged he
>helped Colombian army create a database of subversives, terrorists and
>drug dealers. Haiti Information, 4/23/94, pp. 3,4
>
>Columbia: Death Squads
>
>Colombia. MAS (Muerte A Secuestradores): "Death to Kidnappers,"
>Colombian antiguerrilla death squad founded in December 1981 by
>members of Medellin cartel, Cali cartel, and Colombian military.
>Scott, P. and Marshall, J. (1991). Cocaine Politics, p. 261.
>
>Colombia, 1993-94. Amnesty International called Colombia one of worst
>"killing fields." U.S. is an accomplice. William F. Schultz, human
>rights group's newly appointed Executive Director for the U.S., told a
>news conference that using fight against drugs as a pretext —
>Colombian government doesn't reign in [its forces]. About 20,000
>people killed since 1986 in one of Latin America's most "stable
>democracies." only 2% political killings related to drug trafficking
>and 70% by paramilitary or military. U.S. probably a collaborator and
>much of U.S. aid for counternarcotics diverted to "killing fields." AI
>report said human meat is sold on black market and politicians gunned
>down along with children, homosexuals, and drug addicts. U.S. support
>because of Colombia's strategic position. No one is safe, people
>killed for body parts. Washington Times, 3/16/1994, p. a15
>
>Costa Rica: Watch List
>
>Costa Rica, 1955. Ambassador Woodward reported the government should
>be urged to maintain closer surveillance over communists and prosecute
>them more vigorously, and the government should be influenced to amend
>the constitution to limit the travel of communists, increase penalties
>for subversive activities and enact proposed legislation eliminating
>communists from union leadership. Meanwhile USIA aka USIS programs "to
>continue to condition the public to the communist menace" should be
>maintained. Z Magazine, 11/1988, p. 20
>
>Cuba: Watch List
>
>Cuba, 1955-57. Allen Dulles pressed Batista to establish with CIA
>help, a bureau for the repression of communist activities. Grose, P.
>(1994). Gentleman Spy: the Life of Allen Dulles, p. 412
>
>Cuba: Death Squads
>
>Cuba, 1956-95 CIA's war against Cuba and Cuba's response. In 1956, CIA
>established in Cuba the infamous Bureau for the Repression of
>Communist Activities, BRAC — secret police that became well known for
>torture and assassination of Batista's political opponents.
>Unclassified W/1994-1995 16-17
>
>Dominican Republic: Watch List
>
>Dominican Republic, 1965. CIA composed list of 55 communist
>ringleaders of projected takeover of government. Crozier, b. (1993).
>Free Agent, p. 58
>
>Dominican Republic: Death Squads
>
>Dominican Republic, cover, 1965. 18 public safety program advisers, 6
>of whom CIA. Police organized La Banda, a death squad. Lernoux, P.
>(1982). Cry of the People, p. 187
>
>Eastern Europe: Watch List
>
>East Europe, USSR, 1952-93. Radio Free Europe researchers have
>hundreds of thousands of file cards on prominent east bloc citizens
>and a staff of 160 researchers. Washington Post, 4/4/1993, p. A19
>
>East Timor: Death Squads
>
>East Timor, 1975-76. Role of U.S. Government, CIA/NSA, and their
>Australian collaborators in East Timor is another example of support
>for genocide which joins a long list of similar cases. Carter and Ford
>administrations have been accomplices in the massacre of anywhere
>between one-in-ten (Indonesian foreign minister Mochtar's latest
>figure) and one-in-two Timorese. Counterspy, Spring 1980, p. 19
>
>Ecuador: Watch List
>
>Ecuador, 1962. Subversive control watch list. With agent from Social
>Christian party CIA will form five squads composed of five men for
>investigative work on subversive control watch list. Agee, P. (1975).
>Inside the Company: CIA Diary, pp. 240, 247
>
>Ecuador, 1963. The CIA maintained what was called the lynx list, aka
>the subversive control watch list. This a file that might have 50 to
>500 names. People on the list were supposed to be the most important
>left-wing activists whose arrest we might effect through the local
>government. Would include place and date of birth, wife's name, where
>they worked, and biological data on the whole family, including
>schools the children attended, etc. In Ecuador the CIA paid teams to
>collect and maintain this type information. Agee, (1981). White Paper
>Whitewash, p. 55
>
>Egypt: Watch List
>
>Egypt, Pakistan, 1993. 4/16/1993 2 teams from CIA and FBI to Peshawar
>to check information given them by Egyptian intelligence services.
>Egyptians reported terrorist groups based in Peshawar belong to "Arab
>Afghans" with ties to fundamentalist Muslims in U.S. CIA specialists
>met with officers of Mukhabarat Al-Amat who had list of 300 Egyptians
>believed to be hard inner core of Jihad led by Mohammed Sahwky
>Islambuli. Names of various terrorists. On request by CIA and others,
>100 expulsions on 4/10. Intelligence Newsletter, 4/29/1993, pp. 1,5
>
>El Salvador: Watch List
>
>El Salvador, 1980-89. On TV D'Aubuisson, using military intelligence
>files, denounced teachers, labor leaders, union organizers and
>politicians. Within days their mutilated bodies found. Washington had
>identified most leaders of death squads as members Salvadoran security
>forces with ties to D'Aubuisson. Washington Post op-ed by Douglas
>Farah, 2/23/1992, p. C4
>
>El Salvador, 1982-84. Significant political violence associated with
>Salvadoran security services including National police, National
>Guard, and Treasury Police. U.S. Government agencies maintained
>official relationships with Salvadoran security establishment
>appearing to acquiesce in these activities. No evidence U.S. personnel
>participated in forcible interrogations. U.S. Did pass "tactical"
>information to alert services of action by insurgent forces.
>Information on persons passed only in highly unusual cases. Senate
>Intelligence Committee, October 5, 1984, pp. 11-13
>
>El Salvador: Death Squads
>
>El Salvador, 1961-79. Vigilante organization called Democratic
>National Organization (Orden) created early 1960s to further control
>countryside. Created in 1961 but abolished in 1979. But quickly
>regained and even surpassed former vicious role. Today its members
>form the core of civil defense corps. White, R.A. (1984). The Morass,
>p. 133
>
>El Salvador, 1961-84. During the Kennedy administration, agents of the
>U.S. government set up two security organizations that killed
>thousands of peasants and suspected leftists over the next 15 years.
>Guided by Americans, these organizations into the paramilitary units
>that were the death squads: in 1984 the CIA, in violation U.S. law,
>continued to provide training, support, and intelligence to security
>forces involved in death squads. Over the years the CIA and U.S.
>military organized Orden, the rural paramilitary and intelligence net
>designed to use terror. Mano Blanco grew out of Orden, which a U.S.
>ambassador called the "birth of the death squads;" conceived and
>organized Ansesal, the elite presidential intelligence service that
>gathered files on Salvadoran dissidents and gave that information to
>the death squads; recruited General Medrano, the founder of Orden and
>Ansesal as a CIA agent; supplied Ansesal, the security forces, and the
>General Staff with electronic, photographic, and personal surveillance
>of individuals who later assassinated by death squads; and, trained
>security forces in the use of investigative techniques, weapons,
>explosives, and interrogation with "instruction in methods of physical
>and psychological torture." The Progressive, 5/1984, pp. 20-29
>
>El Salvador, 1963. U.S. government sent 10 special forces personnel to
>El Salvador to help General Jose Alberto Medrano set up Organizacion
>Democratica Nacionalist (Orden)--first paramilitary death squad in
>that country. These green berets assisted in organization and
>indoctrination of rural "civic" squads which gathered intelligence and
>carried out political assassinations in coordination with Salvadoran
>military. Now there is compelling evidence to show that for over 30
>years, members of U.S. military and CIA have helped organize, train,
>and fund death squad activity in El Salvador. Covert Action
>Information Bulletin (Quarterly), Summer 1990, p. 51
>
>El Salvador, 1963. National Democratic Organization (Orden) formed as
>pro-government organization with assistance from CIA, U.S. military
>advisers, AID's police training program. Orden supervised by
>Salvadoran national security agency, intelligence organization of
>military. CIA chose "right hand man," Jose Medrano, to direct Orden.
>Orden served as base for death squad operations and sanctioned in
>1970-79 all "above ground" unions. Barry, T., and Preusch, D. (1986).
>AIFLD in Central America, p. 33
>
>El Salvador, 1965-85. For a report of CIA supporting death squad
>activities in El Salvador see "Spark," 4/1985, pp. 2-4
>
>El Salvador, 1966. Developed death squads with help of green berets.
>Campaign used vigilantes to employ terror. Later called civil defense
>corps. White, R.A. (1984). The Morass, pp. 101-3
>
>El Salvador, 1968. AIFLD creates Salvadoran Communal Union (UCS) which
>emphasized self help for rural farmers and not peasant organizing.
>Initially, UCS had support military government. By 1973 UCS seen as
>too progressive and AIFLD officially expelled. U.S. funding UCS
>continued through training programs and private foundations. UCS
>charged with ties to Orden, organization which carried out death squad
>activity. With failing pro-government union efforts, AIFLD called back
>to control UCS in 1979. Barry, T., and Preusch, D. (1986). AIFLD in
>Central America, p. 34
>
>El Salvador, 1976-85. Attended conferences of World Anti-Communist
>League: Roberto D'Aubuisson, El Salvador. Former major in military
>intelligence; charged with being responsible for coordinating nation's
>rightist death squads. Established Arena political party with
>assistance of U.S. new right leaders. Anderson, J. L.. and Anderson,
>S. (1986). Inside the League
>
>El Salvador, 1979-84. House Intelligence Committee investigation of
>U.S. intelligence connections with death squad activities concluded
>U.S. intelligence agencies "have not conducted any of their activities
>in such a way as to directly encourage or support death squad acts."
>House Intelligence Committee, annual report, 1/2/1985, pp. 16-19
>
>El Salvador, 1979-88. Death squads recruited under cover of boy
>scouts. Boys operated as a death squad known as Regalados Armed Forces
>(FAR). They murdered union officials, student leaders and teachers
>accused of being guerrilla sympathizers. Herman Torres, a death squad
>member, learned that the scouts part of nationwide net based on the
>paramilitary organization known as Orden and coordinated from the main
>military intelligence unit known as Ansesal run by D'Aubuisson. After
>coup of 1979, Orden and Ansesal officially disbanded. In 1982, when
>Arena won control of the constituent assembly, the top legislative
>body was turned into a center for death squads. Another death squad
>called the secret anti-communist army (ESA). Bush and North in
>12/11/1983 were sent to make it clear U.S. would not tolerate death
>squads. Perez Linares boasted he killed Archbishop Romero on
>3/24/1980. Catholic Church's human rights office reports 1991 death
>squad and government killings in first half of 1988 double the number
>of 1987. Mother Jones, 1/1989, pp. 10-16
>
>El Salvador, 1980-84. Colonel Roberto Santivanez, former chief of the
>Salvadoran Army's special military intelligence unit, testified before
>U.S. Senators and Congressmen. He charged that Roberto D'Aubuisson was
>the principal organizer of the death squads, along with Colonel
>Nicolas Carranza, the head of the country's Treasury Police. He said
>Carranza also serves as a paid CIA informer. Other reports said
>Carranza received $90,000 a year for providing intelligence to the
>CIA. Washington Post, 4/1/1984
>
>El Salvador, 1980-84. Former U.S. Ambassador to El Salvador, Robert
>White, said the Reagan administration covered up information that
>Salvadoran rightist Roberto D'Aubuisson ordered the killing of
>Archbishop Romero. Washington Post, 2/3/1984, 2/7/1984
>
>El Salvador, 1980. Former U.S. Ambassador Robert White, said
>D'Aubuisson presided over a lottery to select which Salvadoran
>military officer would assassinate Archbishop Romero, gunned down on
>3/24/1980. White said the U.S. Embassy received an eyewitness account
>of the 3/22 meeting that plotted Romero's murder. Washington Post from
>Associated Press, 3/1984
>
>El Salvador, 1981-83. Colonel Carranza, leader of Salvador's infamous
>Treasury Police, oversaw the government reign of terror in which 800
>people were killed each month. Carranza received $90,000 a year from
>the CIA from 1979-84 Reportedly living in Kentucky. The Nation,
>6/5/1988, p. 780
>
>El Salvador, 1981-84. House Intelligence Committee concluded "CIA did
>not directly encourage or support death squad killings." Report added
>that "some intelligence relationships with individuals connected with
>death squads" may have given the impression that the CIA condoned,
>because it was aware of, some death squad killings. Washington Post,
>1/14/1985, A20
>
>El Salvador, 1981-84. Senate Intelligence Committee reported several
>Salvadoran security and military officials have engaged in death
>squads acts. Large numbers of low-level personnel also involved. Death
>squads have originated from the Treasury Police and the National Guard
>and police. Washington Post, 10/12/1984
>
>El Salvador, 1981-84. The CIA and military advisers have helped
>organize, trained, financed and advised Salvadoran army and
>intelligence units engaged in death squad activities and torture.
>Information from two well-informed sources in Salvadoran government.
>Christian Science Monitor, 5/8/1984, p. 1
>
>El Salvador, 1981-88. Discussion of the use of death squads in El
>Salvador (No indication of direct CIA participation). The Nation,
>5/8/1989, p. 625
>
>El Salvador, 1986. Despite extensive government labor clamp down
>(including National Guard raid of hospital workers strike), Irving
>Brown, known CIA and head AFL-CIO's Department of International
>Affairs, issues report claiming "a shift away from violent repression
>and an improvement in human rights." Statement incredible in light of
>death squad attacks on unionists. Barry, T., and Preusch, D. (1986).
>AIFLD in Central America, p. 35
>
>El Salvador, 1987. Central American death squads reported operating in
>the Los Angeles area. NACLA (magazine re Latin America), 6/1987, pp.
>4-5
>
>El Salvador, 1988. Americas Watch in September said the military
>killed 52 civilians in first 6 months, compared with 72 in all of
>1987. In 1988 the Salvadoran rebels have stepped up the war.
>Washington Post, 11/26/1988, A1&18
>
>El Salvador. AID public safety advisors created the national police
>intelligence archive and helped organize Ansesal, an elite
>presidential intelligence service. Dossiers these agencies collected
>on anti-government activity, compiled with CIA surveillance reports,
>provided targets for death squads. Many of 50,000 Salvadorans killed
>in 1981-85 Attributable to death squad activity. National Reporter,
>Winter 1986, p. 19
>
>El Salvador. Covert Action Information Bulletin (Quarterly)
>12:14-15;12:5-13.
>
>El Salvador. Medrano "the father of the death squads, the chief
>assassin of them all," according to Jose N. Duarte. On 23 March 1985,
>Medrano was assassinated. Medrano in 1984 admitted he had worked for
>the CIA in 1960-69. The Progressive, 6/1985, p. 11
>
>El Salvador. Administration sources said at height of rightist death
>squad activity, Reagan administration depended on commanders of right
>wing death squads. The U.S. shared some intelligence with them. U.S.
>intelligence officers developed close ties to chief death squad
>suspects while death squads killed several hundred a month and
>totaling tens of thousands. Washington Post, 10/6/1988, A 39 and 43
>
>El Salvador. Article contrasting results of Senate Committee 1984 news
>accounts of official cooperation between CIA and Salvadoran security
>officers said to be involved in death squad activities. First
>Principles, 12/1984, pp. 2-4
>
>El Salvador. CIA supplied surveillance information to security
>agencies for death squads. Blum, W. (1986). The CIA A Forgotten
>History, pp. 321, 327
>
>El Salvador. Falange mysterious death squad comprising both active and
>retired members security forces. Conducts death squad activities.
>Covert Action Information Bulletin (Quarterly), 4/1981, p. 14
>
>El Salvador. Formation of Organisation Democratica Nacionalista Orden
>Formed in 1968 by Medrano. Forces between 50,000 and 100,000. From
>1968-79, Orden official branch of government. First junta attempted to
>abolish, but group reorganized as National Democratic Front. Example
>of Orden death squad acts. Covert Action Information Bulletin
>(Quarterly), 4/1981, p. 14
>
>El Salvador. See Dickey article re slaughter in El Salvador in New
>Republic, 12/13/1983, entitled "The Truth Behind the Death Squads." fn
>Dickey, C. (1985). With the Contras, p. 286
>
>El Salvador. The CIA and U.S. Armed forces conceived and organized
>Orden, the rural paramilitary and spy net designed to use terror
>against government opponents. Conceived and organized Ansesal, the
>presidential intelligence service that gathered dossiers on dissidents
>which then passed on to death squads. Kept key security officers with
>known links to death squads on the CIA payroll. Instructed Salvadoran
>intelligence operatives "in methods of physical and psychological
>torture." Briarpatch, 8/1984 p. 30 from the 5/1984 Progressive
>
>El Salvador. UGB (Union Guerrilla Blanca) (white warriors union).
>Headed by D'Aubuisson, who trained at International Police Academy.
>D'Aubuisson claims close ties CIA. Former ambassador White called
>D'Aubuisson a "psychopathic killer." Covert Action Information
>Bulletin (Quarterly), 4/1981, p. 14
>
>El Salvador, 1979-88. See "Confessions of an Assassin," article.
>Herman Torres Cortez is the assassin who was interviewed and tells of
>death squad operations in El Salvador. Mother Jones, 1/1989, p. 10
>
>El Salvador, 1983. Vice President Bush delivered an ultimatum to
>Salvadoran military to stop death squad murders. Mother Jones, 8/1986,
>p. 64
>
>El Salvador, 1987. Assassins, certainly sponsored by and probably
>members of Salvadoran security forces, murder Herbert Ernesto Anaya,
>head of Salvadoran civil rights commission and last survivor of
>commission's eight founders. Prior harassment of Anaya solicited
>neither protest nor protection from Duarte or U.S. administration.
>Contrary to popular opinion, death squad activity has not waned.
>"Selective killings of community leaders, labor organizers, human
>rights workers, rural activists and others have replaced wholesale
>massacres" since signing of Arias plan. Los Angeles organization "El
>Rescate" has compiled chronology of human rights abuses. The Nation,
>11/14/1987, p. 546
>
>El Salvador. CIA took more than two years 1980-83 begin seriously
>analyzing papers captured from D'Aubuisson. ICC 242. Papers said
>reveal death squad supporters, atrocities. Marshall, J., Scott P.D.,
>and Hunter, J. (1987). The Iran-Contra Connection, p. 22
>
>El Salvador, 1988. Death squad activity surged in El Salvador in 1988
>after a period of relative decline. Amnesty International report "El
>Salvador: Death Squads- A Government Strategy," noted in NACLA
>(magazine re Latin America) 3/1989, p. 11
>
>El Salvador, 1989. Although human rights monitors consistently link
>death squad acts to the Salvadoran government, many U.S. media report
>on death squads as if they an independent or uncontrollable force.
>Extra, Summer, 1989, p. 28
>
>El Salvador, 1989 Member of Salvadoran army said first brigade
>intelligence unit army troops routinely kill and torture suspected
>leftists. First brigade day-to-day army operations carried out with
>knowledge of U.S. military advisers. CIA routinely pays expenses for
>intelligence operations in the brigades. U.S. has about 55 advisers in
>Salvador. Washington Post, 10/27/1989, A1,26
>
>El Salvador, circa 1982-84. Ricardo Castro, a 35 year old Salvadoran
>army officer, a West Point graduate, said he worked for the CIA and
>served as translator for a U.S. official who advised the military on
>torture techniques and overseas assassinations. Castro personally led
>death squad operations. The Progressive, 3/1986, pp. 26-30
>
>El Salvador, domestic, 1986-87. Article "The Death Squads Hit Home."
>For decades they terrorized civilians in El Salvador, now they are
>terrorizing civilians in the U.S. The FBI shared intelligence about
>Salvadoran activists in the U.S. with Salvador's notorious security
>services. The Progressive, 10/1987, pp. 15-19
>
>El Salvador. Office of Public Safety graduate Colonel Roberto Mauricio
>Staben was, according to journalist Charles Dickey "responsible for
>patrolling — if not contributing to — the famous death squad dumping
>ground at El Payton a few miles from its headquarters." also, Alberto
>Medrano, founder of El Salvador's counterinsurgency force Orden, was
>an operations graduate. Finally, Jose Castillo, who was trained in
>1969 at the U.S. International Police School, later became head of
>National Guard's section of special investigations which helped
>organize the death squads. The Nation, 6/7/1986, p. 793
>
>El Salvador. Former death squad member Joya Martinez admitted death
>squad operations carried out with knowledge and approval 2 U.S.
>military advisers. LA Weekly, 1/25/1990
>
>El Salvador. DCI report to House Intelligence Committee re CIA
>connections with death squads. National security archives listing.
>
>El Salvador. FBI's contacts with the Salvadoran National Guard.
>Information in Senate Intelligence Committee Report, 7/1989, pp. 104-5
>
>El Salvador. Former San Francisco police officer accused of illegal
>spying said he worked for CIA and will expose CIA's support of death
>squads if he prosecuted. Tom Gerard said he began working for CIA in
>1982 and quit in 1985 because he could not tolerate what he saw. He
>and Roy Bullock are suspected of gathering information from police and
>government files on thousands of individuals and groups. Information
>probably ended up with B'nai B'rith and ADL. CIA refused to confirm
>Gerard's claim. Gerard said there is proof CIA directly involved in
>training and support of torture and death squads in El Salvador,
>Honduras, and Guatemala during mid 1980s. Proof in his briefcase San
>Francisco police seized. Gerard said several photos seized by police
>show CIA agents attending interrogations, or posing with death squad
>members. Washington Times, 4/28/1993, A 6
>
>El Salvador, 1963-90. In 1963 U.S. sent 10 Special Forces to help
>General Madrano set up Organizacion Democratica Nacionalista (Orden),
>a death squad. Evidence this sort activity going on for 30 years.
>Martinez, a soldier in First infantry brigade's department 2, admitted
>death squad acts. Said he worked with two U.S. Advisers. Castro,
>another soldier, talks about death squads and U.S. contacts. Rene
>Hurtado, former agent with Treasury Police, gives his story. Covert
>Action Information Bulletin (Quarterly) Summer 1990, pp. 51-53
>
>El Salvador, 1973-89. El Salvador's ruling party, Arena, closed off
>fifth floor of National Assembly building to serve as HQ for national
>network of death squads following Arena's 20 March 1988 electoral
>victory. Hernan Torres Cortez, a former Arena security guard and death
>squad member, said he was trained and recruited by Dr. Antonio
>Regalado under orders of Roberto D'Abuisson intelligence service,
>Ansesal, in 1973. Official network was broken up in 1984 following
>Vice President Bush's visit, but was reinstated in 1988. Intelligence
>Newsletter, 1/18/1991, p. 5
>
>El Salvador, 1979-90. A detailed discussion of Salvador's death
>squads. Schwarz, B. (1991). American Counterinsurgency Doctrine and El
>Salvador, pp. 41-3
>
>El Salvador, 1980-84. Expatriate Salvadorans in U.S. have provided
>funds for political violence and have been directly involved in
>assisting and directing their operations. Senate Intelligence
>Committee, October 5, 1984, p. 15
>
>El Salvador, 1980-84. Numerous Salvadoran officials involved in death
>squad activities — most done by security services — especially the
>Treasury Police and National Guard. Some military death squad
>activity. Senate Intelligence Committee, October 5, 1984, 15
>
>El Salvador, 1980-89. D'Aubuisson kept U.S. on its guard. Hundreds of
>released declassified documents re relationship. Washington Post,
>1/4/1994, A1,13
>
>El Salvador, 1980-89. Declassified documents re 32 cases investigated
>by United Nations appointed Truth Commission on El Salvador reveal
>U.S. officials were fully aware of Salvadoran military and political
>leaders' complicity in crimes ranging from massacre of more than 700
>peasants at El Mozote in 1981 to murder of 6 Jesuit priests in 1989,
>and thousands of atrocities in between. Lies of our Time 3/1994, pp.
>6-9
>
>El Salvador, 1980-89. President Reagan and Vice President Bush
>instituted polices re fighting communists rather than human rights
>concerns. From 11/1980 through 1/1991 a large number of assassinations
>— 11/27, 5 respected politicians; 12/4, rape and murder of 3 American
>nuns and a lay workers; 2 American land reform advisers on 1/4/1981.
>Archbishop Romero killed 3/1980. There clear evidence D'Aubuisson's
>involvement but Reagan administration ignored. On TV, D'Aubuisson,
>using military intelligence files, denounced teachers, labor leaders,
>union organizers and politicians. Within days their mutilated bodies
>found. Washington had identified most leaders of death squads as
>members Salvadoran security forces with ties to D'Aubuisson. With U.S.
>outrage at bloodshed, U.S., via Bush, advised government slaughter
>must stop. Article discusses torture techniques used by security
>forces. Washington Post op-ed by Douglas Farah, 2/23/1992, C4
>
>El Salvador, 1980-90. COL Nicolas Carranza, head of Treasury Police,
>on CIA payroll. Minnick, W. (1992). Spies and Provocateurs, p. 32
>
>El Salvador, 1980-90. State panel found that mistakes by U.S.
>diplomats, particularly in probing 1981 massacre of civilians at El
>Mozote, undercut policy during Salvador's civil war. Findings in
>67-page study ordered by Secretary of State Christopher. Sen. Leahy
>said report "glosses over...the lies, half-truths and evasions that we
>came to expect from the State Department during that period." Sen.
>Dodd said "report is sloppy, anemic and basically a whitewash..."
>Washington Times, 7/16/1993, A12 and Washington Post, 7/16/1993, A16
>
>El Salvador, 1980-91. Truth Commission report says 19 of 27 Salvadoran
>officers implicated in 6 Jesuit murders were graduates of U.S. Army's
>School of Americas in Fort Benning, Ga. Almost three quarters of
>Salvadoran officers accused in 7 other massacres were trained at Fort
>Benning. It called school for dictators. Since 46 it has trained more
>than 56,000 Latin soldiers. Graduates include some of region's most
>despicable military strongmen. Now, when U.S. wants to build
>democracy, school an obstacle. Newsweek investigation turned up
>hundreds of less than honorable grads. At least 6 Peruvian officers
>linked to a military death squad that killed 9 students and a
>professor were graduates. Four of five senior Honduran officers
>accused in Americas Watch report of organizing a death squad,
>Battalion 316, were trained there. A coalition charged 246 Colombian
>officers with human rights violations; 105 were school alumni. Honored
>graduates include General Suarez, a brutal dictator of Bolivia;
>General Callejas Ycallejas, chief of Guatemalan intelligence in late
>1970s and early 1980s, when thousands political opponents were
>assassinated; and Honduran General Garcia, a corrupt person; and,
>Hernandez, armed forces chief of Colombia suspected of aiding
>Colombian drug traffickers. Newsweek, 8/9/1993, pp. 36-7
>
>El Salvador, 1980-92. "Secret of the Skeletons: Uncovering America's
>Hidden Role in El Salvador." Pathologists uncovered 38 small skeletons
>in El Mozote. In 1981 soldiers of ACRE, immediate reaction infantry
>battalion created by U.S., herded children into basement and blew up
>building. U.S. officials denied any massacre had taken place and kept
>on denying for years. About 800 residents killed. Armed service
>leaders said they conducted war on part of Reagan and Bush
>administrations with bi-partisan support Congress since 1984; received
>daily assistance from State Department, DOD and CIA. Truth Commission
>investigating via U.S. Government interagency committee. State and CIA
>not cooperating with commission. CIA not giving one document on
>formation of death squads, prepared in 1983 for congressional
>intelligence committees. Kidnap-for-profit ring against Salvadoran
>business community. With U.S. Encouragement, Salvadoran government
>arrested several members of ring. One was a death squad assassin,
>Rudolfo Isidro Lopez Sibrian, who implicated in deaths of 2 American
>labor advisers. Washington Post, 11/15/1992, C1,2
>
>El Salvador, 1980-93. 11/5/1993 release of thousands pages of
>intelligence reports shows every U.S. diplomat, military officer, and
>intelligence operative who worked with El Salvador's military and
>political leaders in 1980s knew most of those involved in organizing
>death squads. State Department officials lied to Congress.
>Intelligence reports detailed precise information on murder,
>kidnapping, and coup plots, and death squad funding, involving people
>like VP Francisco Merino and current Arena candidate Armando Calderon
>Sol. At least 63,000 Salvadoran civilians — equivalent of 3 million
>Americans were killed — most by government supported by U.S. The
>Nation, 11/29/1993, p. 645
>
>El Salvador, 1980-93. Approximately 50-page article on the massacres
>at El Mozote. Article by Mark Danner. New Yorker, 12/6/1993
>
>El Salvador, 1980-93. Article by Jared Toller, "Death Squads Past,
>Present & Future." discusses recent cases of FMLN members being
>murdered by resurgent death squads. Only left is calling for full
>implementation of UN Truth Commission's recommendations — purging
>armed forces, full investigation into death squads, etc. Truth
>Commission had recommended U.S. make it files available. U.S. Had
>refused to turn over 1983 FBI report on death squads organization in
>Miami. Salvadoran government is the death squads. Member of a death
>squad now imprisoned and seeking amnesty, Lopez Sibrian, explained
>participation of Arena luminaries in kidnappings, bombings and attacks
>on National University. He implicated the mayor of San Salvador in
>various acts. Link between phone service, Antel, and national
>intelligence police. Antel records calls of left and passes them to
>police. (The secret anti-communist Army, a former death squad, were
>regulars of now-disbanded Treasury Police). Upcoming elections may
>have generated increase in death squad activity. Z magazine, 1/1994,
>pp. 14-5
>
>El Salvador, 1980-93. Colman McCarthy comments of UN's Truth
>Commission report and the Reagan-Abrams "fabulous achievement."
>Washington Post, 4/6/1993, D22
>
>El Salvador, 1980-93. Letter to editor by Thomas Buergenthal of law
>school at George Washington U., who was a member of the Truth
>Commission for El Salvador. He denies news story that there was a
>chapter in the report that dealt with the structure and finances of
>the groups was withheld. He bemoans the ability of the commission to
>thoroughly investigate all aspects. Washington Post, 11/30/1993, A24
>
>El Salvador, 1980-93. Report of UN's Truth Commission re enormous
>crime of a government that killed upwards of 70,000 civilians between
>1980-92. Report refutes official statements made by Reagan and Bush
>administrations — when officials denied leaders of Salvadoran armed
>forces were using execution, rape and torture to sustain their power —
>reports says they were. We need a truth report on our own government
>per Rep. Moakley. Truth report adds growing body evidence U.S.
>Government officials may have participated in perpetuation of
>atrocities in El Salvador. In 1960s, CIA advisers helped create a
>nationwide informant net. In 1981, team of military advisers led by
>Brig. Gen. Frederick Woener sent to determine "rightist terrorism and
>institutional violence." Salvadorans generally dismissed notion that
>terror was a bad idea. One of Colonels, Oscar Edgardo Casanova Vejar,
>was one covering up rape and murder of four churchwomen. Woener
>recommended U.S. proceed and give $300-400 million aid. U.S. officials
>claimed churchwomen had run a roadblock and there was no massacre at
>El Mozote. Neil Livingstone, a consultant who worked with Oliver North
>at NSC concluded, "death squads are an extremely effective tool,
>however odious, in combating terrorism and revolutionary challenges."
>op-ed by Jefferson Morley, an Outlook editor. Washington Post,
>3/28/1993, C1,5
>
>El Salvador, 1980-93. Salvador's ruling party moved to declare amnesty
>for those named in United Nations.-sponsored Truth Commission.
>Investigators said 85% of complaints laid to government death squads.
>Discusses D'Aubuisson's implication in Archbishop Romero's
>assassination. Washington Post 3/17/1993 a25
>
>El Salvador, 1980. Ten former death squad members were ordered killed
>in Santiago de Maria on 27 December 1980 by Hector Antonio Regalado,
>who felt they knew too much. Intelligence Newsletter, 10/4/1988, p. 6
>
>El Salvador, 1981-84. There are two versions of first page of a CIA
>report, "El Salvador: Dealing With Death Squads," 1/20/1984. CIA
>released first version in 1987, among congressional debate over aid to
>El Salvador. Second version, which contradicts first, declassified by
>CIA in 11/1993. As recently as 10/1992, CIA continued to release
>censored version in response to FOIA requests. Redacted version
>implies death squad problem overcome — non censored version show this
>is not true. New York Times, 12/17/1993, A19
>
>El Salvador, 1981-89. Salvadoran atrocity posed agonizing choice for
>U.S. COL Rene Ponce, chief of staff of Salvador's armed forces, has
>been accused of ordering murder of six Jesuit priests, their
>housekeeper and her daughter at Central American University. Newly
>available U.S. documents show U.S. knowingly and repeatedly aligned
>themselves with unsavory characters during 1980s while defending them
>to U.S. Public. Diplomatic cables found among more than 10,000
>recently declassified State, Pentagon and CIA documents, reveal extent
>U.S. policy makers chose to overlook Ponce's brutality. U.S. officials
>long labeled Ponce a right-wing extremist tied to death squads. But
>documents make clear U.S. played down unsavory side of Ponce. Details
>from correspondence between Ambassador Walker and Baker. In 10/1983,
>CIA prepared a "briefing paper on right-wing terrorism in El Salvador"
>that described Ponce as a supporter of death squads. Impact Bush's
>visit in 1984 to push for human rights was minimal. By 7/1989, CIA
>reported that Ponce "espouses moderate political views." Ponce refused
>repeated requests to pursue those responsible for deaths of Jesuits.
>Washington Post, 4/5/1994, A13
>
>El Salvador, 1981-90. Government operation at El Mozote consisted of
>Army, National Guard and the Treasury Police in operation rescue. By
>early 1992, U.S. spent more than 4 billion in civil war lasting 12
>years and that left 75,000 dead. New Yorker, 12/6/1993, p. 53
>
>El Salvador, 1981-90. In 1981 over 10,000 political murders committed
>by Salvadoran military and its death squads. In 1990 there were 108
>such murders. Schwarz, B. (1991). American Counterinsurgency Doctrine
>and El Salvador, p. 23
>
>El Salvador, 1981-92. Article "Death-Squad Refugees," discusses case
>of Cesar Vielman Joya Martinez, extradited by Bush to El Salvador to
>face murder charges for being part of a death squad that he claims
>operated with knowledge of defense minister Ponce and other top
>officials. FOIA documents show U.S. helping prepare extradition
>request for Salvadoran government. Truth Commission's report
>vindicates Joya. Texas Observer (magazine), 3/26/1993, pp. 9-10
>
>El Salvador, 1981-92. Some U.S. special operations soldiers in El
>Salvador during civil war want Pentagon to admit they more than
>advisers. They say they also fought. Army memo given Newsweek says,
>"most personnel serving in an advisory capacity were directly engaged
>in hostile action." Newsweek, 4/5/1993
>
>El Salvador, 1981-92. Truth Commission report implicates top
>Salvadoran officials in ordering or covering up murders of four U.S.
>churchwomen and six Jesuit priests; and Salvadoran troops massacred
>many hundreds at El Mozote. Four Dutch journalists killed 3/17/1982
>were deliberately ambushed by Salvadoran army. Denials by then top
>U.S. government officials now exposed. U.S. government supported war
>with $6 billion. The Nation, 4/12/1993, p. 475
>
>El Salvador, 1981-93. 12 years of tortured truth on El Salvador — U.S.
>declarations undercut by United Nations. Commission report. For 12
>years, opponents of U.S. policy in Central America accused Reagan and
>Bush administrations of ignoring widespread human rights abuses by the
>Salvadoran government and of systematically deceiving or even lying to
>Congress and people about the nature of an ally that would receive $6
>billion in economic and military aid. A three-man United
>Nations.-sponsored Truth Commission released a long-awaited report on
>12 years of murder, torture and disappearance in El Salvador's civil
>war. Commission examined 22,000 complaints of atrocities and
>attributed 85 percent of a representative group of them to Salvadoran
>security forces or right-wing death squads. It blamed remainder on
>guerrilla Farabundo Marti National Liberation front (FMLN). In May
>1980, for instance, when Carter was still President, security forces
>seized documents implicating rightist leader D'Aubuisson in the murder
>of Archbishop Oscar Romero. In Fall of 1981, Army Brig. Gen. Fred
>Woerner supervised preparation of a joint U.S.-Salvadoran internal
>military "Report of the El Salvador Military Strategy Assistance
>Team," which noted that "the (Salvadoran) armed forces are reluctant
>to implement vigorous corrective actions for abuses in the use of
>force." One reason so many people found it hard to believe U.S.
>officials could not have known more about rights abuses and acted more
>aggressively to curb them is that the U.S. was deeply involved in
>running the war, from intelligence gathering to strategy planning to
>training of everyone from officers to foot soldiers. By 1982, U.S..
>military advisers were assigned to each of the six Salvadoran
>brigades, as well as each of 10 smaller detachments. The U.S. put tens
>of millions of dollars into developing the ultra-modern national
>intelligence directorate to coordinate intelligence gathering and
>dissemination. U.S. military and CIA officials participated in almost
>every important meeting. Most brigades had a U.S. intelligence officer
>assigned to them, as well as a U.S. liaison officer. U.S. advisers
>regularly doled out small amounts of money, usually less than $1,000
>at a time, for intelligence work. The U.S. was not informed of arrests
>or captures Unless they specifically asked. "They never asked unless
>there was a specific request because someone in Washington was getting
>telegrams." El Mozote, the report said, was work of U.S.-trained
>Atlacatl battalion, part of a days-long search-and-destroy sweep known
>as "Operation Rescue." In fact, the report said, the soldiers
>massacred more than 500 people in six villages. In El Mozote, where
>the identified victims exceeded 200, "the men were tortured and
>executed, then women were executed and finally, the children"
>Washington Post, 3/21/1993
>
>El Salvador, 1981-93. A discussion of the media's treatment of the El
>Mozote massacres and the U.S. media's treatment of that story. Lies of
>our Time, 6/1993, pp. 3-4
>
>El Salvador, 1981-93. Thomas Enders, former Assistant Secretary of
>State for Inter-American Affairs from 1981-83, writes op-ed defending
>U.S. officials' testimony re massacre at El Mozote as now confirmed by
>UN's Truth Commission report. Washington Post, op-ed 3/29/1993, A19
>
>El Salvador, 1981-93. United Nations. Commission on Truth to release
>report on crimes committed against civilians in Salvador's 12-year
>civil war. Defense Minister Ponce already resigned. Washington Post
>Outlook, 3/14/1993, C1,2
>
>El Salvador, 1981-94. Armando Calderon Sol considered shoo-in to win
>Presidency in impending elections. Calderon began his political career
>as a member of a seven-man, neo-fascist group under D'Aubuisson's
>guidance that supported death squad operations. Calderon has all worst
>elements of D'Abuisson without any redeeming qualities. When
>D'Abuisson running death squads out of his office, Calderon was his
>private secretary and a loyal soldier in a terrorist cell — Salvadoran
>National Movement (MNS). In 1981, D'Abuisson unified MNS into Arena
>party. Washington Post, Outlook, 4/17/1994, C1,3
>
>El Salvador, 1981. Detailed article on "The Truth of El Mozote," by
>Mark Danner. New Yorker, 12/6/1993, pages 51 and ending on page 103
>
>El Salvador, 1981. Skeletons verify killing of Salvadoran children of
>El Mozote, El Salvador. Washington Times, 10/21/1992, A9 and
>Washington Post, 10/22/1992, A18
>
>El Salvador, 1982-84. Significant political violence associated with
>Salvadoran security services including National police, National
>Guard, and Treasury Police. U.S. government agencies maintained
>official relationships with Salvadoran security establishment
>appearing to acquiesce in these activities. No evidence U.S. personnel
>participated in forcible interrogations. U.S. did pass "tactical"
>information to alert services of action by insurgent forces.
>Information on persons passed only in highly unusual cases. Senate
>Intelligence Committee, October 5, 1984, pp. 11-13.
>
>El Salvador, 1982-84. "Recent Political Violence in El Salvador,"
>Report of Senate Intelligence Committee. Committee found ample
>evidence that U.S. policy was to oppose political violence. U.S.
>government accorded high priority to gathering intelligence on
>political violence. President Bush and his demarche in 1983. P8. U.S.
>government Relationship with Robert D'Aubuisson — bio on him. U.S.
>Government contact with him limited. Roberto Santivanez, director of
>Ansesal 1978-79. He claimed he himself had engaged in death squad
>activity and had a relationship with U.S. through CIA and that COL
>Carranza had ties to CIA. Colonel Nicolas Carranza had extensive ties
>to Arena and National Conciliation (PCN) parties. He involved in
>various activities of interest to U.S. in various positions. Senate
>Intelligence Committee, October 5, 1984, pp. 1-11
>
>El Salvador, 1983-90. Former Salvadoran army intelligence agent who
>applied for political asylum in U.S. convicted in court of entering
>country illegally. Joya-Martinez's request for political asylum still
>pending. Washington Post, 9/19/1990, A5
>
>El Salvador, 1985. In 2/1985, CIA reported that behind Arena's
>legitimate exterior lies a terrorist network led by D'Aubuisson using
>both active-duty and retired military personnel..." main death squad
>was "the Secret Anti-communist Army," described by CIA as the
>paramilitary organization of Arena — from the National Police and
>other security organizations. These were funded directly from
>Washington. Death squads became more active as 1994, election
>approached. Columbia, possibly leading terrorist state in Latin
>America, has become leading recipient of U.S. military aid. Since
>1986, more than 20,000 people have been killed for political reasons,
>most by Colombian authorities. More than 1,500 leaders, members and
>supporters of the Labor Party (UP) have been assassinated since party
>established in 1985. Pretext for terror operations is war against
>guerrillas and narcotraffickers. Former a partial truth, latter a myth
>concocted to replace the "communist threat." Works hand-in-hand with
>drug lords, organized crime, and landlords. National Police took over
>as leading official killers while U.S. aid shifted to them. Targets
>include community leaders, human rights and health workers, union
>activists, students, members of religious youth organizations, and
>young people in shanty towns. Sale of human organs. Case of Guatemala.
>Shift of 1962, under Kennedy administration from hemispheric defense
>to "internal security:" war against the internal enemy. Doctrines
>expounded in counterinsurgency manuals. Internal enemy extends to
>labor organizations, popular movements, indigenous organizations,
>opposition political parties, peasant movements, intellectual sectors,
>religious currents, youth and student groups, neighborhood
>organizations, etc. From 1984 through 1992, 6,844 Colombian soldiers
>trained under U.S. International Military Education and Training
>Program (MET). Z Magazine, 5/1994, 14 pages
>
>El Salvador, 1986-87. See article "Death Squad Update, Investigating
>L.A.'s Salvadoran Connection." Los Angeles Weekly, 8/7/1987
>
>El Salvador, 1986-89. Joya Martinez, former death squad member, who
>said two U.S. advisers attached to his unit and gave funds of 9500
>month. Article names other Salvadoran death squad members.
>Unclassified, 7/1990
>
>El Salvador, 1986. In 1986, Salvadoran authorities, with help of FBI,
>cracked a kidnap-for-hire ring in which death squads posing as leftist
>rebels kidnapped some of nation's wealthiest businessmen. Schwarz, B.
>(1991). American Counterinsurgency Doctrine and El Salvador, p. 28
>
>El Salvador, 1987-89. Jesuit labeled ardent communist two years before
>by Salvadoran, U.S. officials. Religious News Service, 5/9/1990, p. 1
>
>El Salvador, 1987-89. Salvadoran woman defecting to U.S. said she
>worked for death squad and provided information on six people who
>killed. Her claims back up those of her supervisor, Cesar Joya
>Martinez, who linked death squad acts to U.S. funding. Boston Globe,
>3/16/1990, in First Principles, 4/1990, p. 10
>
>El Salvador, 1988-89. Joya Martinez, former member intelligence
>department 1st army Brigade of Salvador's army. Said U.S. advisers
>funded their activity, but unaware of death squad. Washington Post,
>11/19/1989, F2
>
>El Salvador, 1988. Amnesty International report of 26 October 1988
>noted "black list" are supplied to Salvadoran media by Salvadoran
>intelligence services. During first six months of 1988, number of
>murders by death squads tripled over same period of previous year.
>Most prominent victim was Judge Jorge Alberto Serrano Panameno who was
>shot in May 1988. Increase reflects rise to power of 1966 class from
>national military school. Class members include Colonel Rene Emilio
>Ponce, new chief of staff of armed forces as well as director of
>Treasury Police. They command five of country's six brigades, five of
>seven military detachments, three security forces as well as
>intelligence, personnel and operations posts in high command.
>Intelligence Newsletter, 11/16/1988, pp. 5,6
>
>El Salvador, 1989-91. According to confidential Salvadoran military
>sources, decision to murder six Jesuit priests was made at a 15
>November 1989 meeting of senior commanders (CO) at the Salvadoran
>military school. Those allegedly present were: Colonel Benavides, CO
>of the school; General Juan Rafael Bustillo, then CO of Salvadoran Air
>Force — in 1991 assigned to embassy in Israel; General Emilio Ponce,
>then chief of staff — in 1991 minister of defense; and Colonel Elena
>Fuentes, CO of 1st brigade. Initiative for murders came from Colonel
>Bustillo. For a listing of direct and circumstantial evidence
>supporting allegation, see statement of Rep. Joe Moakley, Task Force
>on El Salvador, 11/18/1991
>
>El Salvador, 1989. CIA officer visited bodies of dead priests. Officer
>was senior liaison with (DNI) the national intelligence directorate.
>U.S. probably knew Salvadoran military behind assassinations but did
>not say anything for seven weeks. State Department panel did not
>review actions of CIA or DOD. Washington Post, 7/18/1993, C1,4
>
>El Salvador, 1989. Congressman criticized a 11/ 1987 report in which
>Latin American and U.S. military leaders accused Rev. Ignacio
>Ellacuria and several other theologians of supporting objectives of
>communist revolution. Father Ellacuria, Rector of Jesuit university in
>San Salvador, was murdered on 11/16/ 1989. Religious News Service,
>5/11/1990, p. 1
>
>El Salvador, 1989. Joya Martinez and Jesuit murders. Martinez says his
>unit which played major role in 12/1989 murder of Jesuit priests had
>U.S. government advisors. INS trying to deport Martinez. Unclassified,
>9/1990, p. 6
>
>El Salvador, 1989. Salvadoran Archbishop Rivera accused U.S. officials
>of subjecting a witness to the slaying of 6 Jesuit intellectuals to
>brainwashing and psychological torment. Washington Post, 12/11/1989,
>A23,24
>
>El Salvador, 1989. U.S. military adviser Benavides told FBI, later
>recanted, that Salvadoran army chief of staff and others knew of plan
>to kill six Jesuit priests. Washington Post, 10/29/1990, A17,21
>
>El Salvador, 1990. Amnesty International reported a significant surge
>in number of killings by army-supported death squads this year. 45
>people killed between January and August this year, compared with 40
>reported in 1989. Washington Post, 10/24/1990, A14
>
>El Salvador, 1990. Cesar Vielman Joya-Martinez, former member
>Salvadoran First brigade death squad, sentenced to 6 months in jail
>for illegally reentering U.S. 6 years after he deported. Washington
>Post, 12/8/1990, A22
>
>El Salvador, 1991. Salvadoran minister of defense and other top
>generals attended 1989 meeting where decision was made to murder six
>Jesuit priests, according to confidential sources. Allegation was made
>by an attorney working for Rep. Moakley (D-MA), whose task force
>released a six page statement directly linking Salvadoran high command
>to slayings. Washington Times, 11/18/1991, A2
>
>El Salvador, 1991. Summary executions continued in El Salvador despite
>the presence of Onusal, the UN observer mission monitoring human
>rights violations. In a 1991 report, Onusal noted government made few
>attempts to investigate slayings. Report also accused FMLN for
>recruiting fifteen-year-olds. Washington Times, 12/3/1991, A8
>
>El Salvador, 1992. Cesar Vielman Joya Martinez, former Salvadoran
>death squad member, to be deported. Washington Post editorial,
>10/23/1992, A20
>
>El Salvador, 1993. Right-wing death squads undermining fragile peace
>per UN chief in campaign for March 1994 elections. Washington Times,
>11/25/1993, A15
>
>El Salvador, Central America, 1981-1993. Salvadoran death squads set
>up as a consequence of Kennedy administration decisions. Killers were
>Treasury Police and the military who were trained in intelligence and
>torture by U.S. U.S. personnel staffed military and intelligence
>apparatus. Generals selected and trained by U.S. were most notorious
>killers. 1984 FBI report on death squads never released. For savage
>expose of School of Americas' killers, see Father Roy Bourgeois's
>School of the Americas Watch, Box 3330, Columbus Ga. 31903; (706)
>682-5369. The Nation, 12/27/1993, p. 791
>
>El Salvador, 1989-1990. Joya Martinez testified role played by U.S.
>officials in death squad killings carried out by U.S. trained first
>infantry Brigade's intelligence unit. Two U.S. military advisers
>controlled intelligence department and paid for unit's operating
>expenses. His unit performed 74 executions between April and July
>1989. Washington Post confirmed U.S. advisers work in liaison with
>First brigade and CIA pays expenses for intelligence operations in the
>brigades. Martinez said his first brigade unit attached to
>U.S.-trained Atlacatl battalion, which slaughtered the Jesuit priests.
>Member of his unit, Oscar Mariano Amaya Grimaldi has confessed to
>slayings. In These Times, 8/14/1990, p. 17
>
>
>***********************
>
>The list, as you can see, is alphabetical. Long as it is, we've only
>gotten to the "e's"!
>
>Gary
Yaketyak
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:52:20 +0100, "gg" <gobbaccio...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/11 the blood of 3000 innocents brought all Americans together.
Yaketyak
On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:59:10 +0100, "gg" <gobbaccio...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/11 the blood of 3000 innocents brought all Americans together.
Gary Aguilar
Yes, what joyous news! It reminds me of a conversation I had with a
colleague during which I explained why I'd left the Republican Party
to join the Libertarians:
"You're what?!" I asked.
"A conservative Republican," he said. Reacting to my obvious look of
stupefied amazement, a physician who was serving with me on the board
of trustees added, "You know, I grew up in an enlightened, liberal
Jewish milieu. But I see things much differently now. I've turned
conservative. I'm a pro-Bush Republican." You could have knocked me
over with a leaf.
My counterpart, Andre, had sterling credentials. A Yalie with an MD
degree from Johns Hopkins and post graduate residency training in a
prestigious program at the University of California in San Francisco,
he was now a board certified, respected specialist. By all accounts,
including my own personal interactions with him, he was an astute and
reasonable man. And so his rightward shift was all the more baffling
to me.
"You know, Andre," I answered, "I migrated in exactly the opposite
direction. My parents were John Birch Society chapter leaders. I was a
Young Republican, a Young American for Freedom member and an Ayn Rand
objectivist. As a young boy I stood with my parents, placard in hand,
protesting at one of JFK's campaign stump speeches in 1960. I
supported Goldwater in '64, Nixon in '68 and I was a firm believer in
our war to guarantee freedom and democracy to all of Vietnam."
"But then," I added, "I read the Pentagon Papers. The scales fell from
my eyes. As I've continued to read, they've continued to fall. I
finally quit the Republicans because I got tired of being wrong and
feeling stupid, gullible and naïve."
His eyes narrowed a bit, but he said nothing.
"Since that probably doesn't make much sense to you, Andre, let me
explain.
"In 1953, Liberal Democrats [LDs] bellowed that the U.S. had toppled a
functioning democracy in Iran to reinstall the Shaw of Iran, a
totalitarian despot who ruled by death squad. 'We' conservative
Republicans [CRs] called those sorts of comments either a wacky
conspiracy theory or Communist disinformation bordering on treasonous
lunacy.
"In 1954, the liberals were back at it again, barking that the U.S.
had crushed Guatemala's democracy to install a murderous, totalitarian
dictatorship. CRs countered that the LDs had been duped by the
Commies, that nothing of the sort had ever happened.
"In '73, the LD's sang the same song about Chile. And throughout the
late 70s and 80s, they sang the now familiar chorus over and over
again about places like El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras and
Argentina. "Responsible" conservatives countered that the damn
liberals really hated America. And when you got right down to it they
were nothing but lying, treasonous blame-America-firsters.
"During the Vietnam War, there was a similar divide. Liberals
thundered that the rationale given for the war – the attack at the
Gulf of Tonkin – was a lie, a pretext; that CRs were daft about
dominoes falling all over Southeast Asia if we didn't win in Vietnam
and, besides, our government was lying to us about everything: our
success in battle, enemy casualty figures, secret wars in Laos and
Cambodia, American-sponsored atrocities including My Lai, you name it.
Furiously, CRs fired back that anyone who said such things deserved
jail time, followed by a one-way ticket to North Vietnam or the USSR.
"Similar skirmishes played out during scandals with names like
Watergate, the BCCI, Iran Contra, and so on.
"And in the run up to America's second attack on Iraq, both sides took
up positions in the same old trenches. LDs sneered at CRs who said
that madman Saddam, bristling with Weapons of Mass Destruction, posed
a imminent threat to America; sneered at claims Saddam was connected
to 9/11, to the Taliban, to bin Laden; laughed at predictions the war
would be a cake walk punctuated with GI's being greeted as liberators
with flowers; scoffed at promises the war would last just a few
months, cost no more than $70 billion, be self-financed with revenue
from Iraqi oil, and that our installing democracy would inspire and
impress the world. Seething with righteousness indignation and
contempt, CRs shot back that, ‘You just wait. Not only does Saddam
indeed have Weapons of Mass Destruction, we know right where they
are!'
"Well, Andre," I concluded, "the CRs have been consistently wrong over
a fifty-year stretch on not only the small stuff, but the big stuff as
well – two wars with thousands of dead Americans, countless dead
innocents in Southeast Asia and Latin America and billions of tax
dollars squandered.
And speaking of squandering taxes, CRs used to insist on fiscal
responsibility, on not spending more than we take in and on not
passing our debts to future generations. Remember the "Balanced Budget
Amendment?" Now, CRs say deficits don't matter and it's good to make
future generations pay our debts.
And CRs used to insist the government operate in the open so taxpayers
knew what they were doing and voters would know how to vote. They also
said protecting the privacy of the individual was paramount. Nowadays,
CRs are the biggest champions of Big Brother: they want to protect the
government from the prying eyes of taxpayers and voters and they want
to grant the government the right to violate the privacy of
individuals.
So with the CRs having been consistently wrong over so many years and
with them having abandoned the ideal of open, accountable and limited
government, why did it make sense to you to ditch the guys who had
been right all along to join the losers?"
Andre blinked and stared a moment. "Listen, Gary, this is very
important, but I'm already late. If I don't get going right now I'm
going to be even later than I already am. We should definitely
continue this discussion soon."
With that, he popped off. And he never broached the subject again.
Your only solace, Greg, is that your party - the party of Big Brother,
deficit spending, lying to the public when not occupied operating in
secrecy prying into the private lives of citizens ..., you know, the
party of "moral values" - has four more years to do more of the same.
I know you by now pretty well. You didn't have to tell me, Greg, that
that prospect brings you tremendous satisfaction.
Gary
gg
| No... I was talking about your posted version.. not the truth.
|
I didn't post anything before.
BTW, the truth (CIA report) affirms what Gary said.
GrgLnsctt
>"freedom" to Iran, Guatemala, Chile, etc. Says alot, Greg.
>
Gary,
I think I've answered this one a time or two. The countries you've mentioned
above (as well as many others) were dealt with under the constraints of the
Cold War. Yes, we did prop up corrupt regimes (and other skullduggery) in order
to blunt communist aggression. There were no good choices, but that is the
nature of war. Whatever it takes and sometimes there are just no good options.
Greg
GrgLnsctt
>extremely dumb.
>
Rita,
Not to worry, Gary has concluded my education ended the day I set foot in
Vietnam. For a guy who has never set foot in a combat zone, I would say that he
is highly presumptuous and wrongheaded. According to Gary, all knowledge and
wisdom is only obtainable on a college campus with rigorous scholastic study.
That we should be so honored to hear his take on history! He could have been a
part of history and gained some priceless first hand experience, but for his
indecision all of history is reduced to a mistake. He is doing nothing more
than defending the poor decisions of his youth. He is forever chained to
rigorous study of history to cover his ass. Pathetic.
Best Regards
Greg
-LMAO
Gary Aguilar
> Something stinks besides your leftist mentality.. I find it hard to believe
> the name "Aguilar" fit well on the membership roles of the JBS.. on top of
> that the rest of your nonsense has just enough truth to be believable but it
> aint..
>
> You are a walking treasure trove of leftist disinfornation.. and not much good
> for anything else.
>
"Leftist disinfo," is it? Apparently it's very good "disinfo," because
you don't refute any of it, and for one very good reason: you can't.
Very annoying, isn't it?
Gary
Gary Aguilar
Yaketyak
On 9/11 the blood of 3000 innocents brought all Americans together.
Gary Aguilar
How right you are, ole Yaketyyak. But you're not nearly patriotic
enough for my blood.
Amomg them cursed lies Leftist Insurgents, i.e. Treasonous Democrats,
have been telling is that the madman Saddam, was NOT bristling with
Weapons of Mass Destruction, that he did NOT pose a imminent threat to
America; that Saddam was NOT connected to 9/11, NOR to the Taliban,
NOR to bin Laden. Yep, them Leftist Insurgents will stop at nothing!
Moreover, the traitorous Leftist Insurgents had the gall to laugh at
predictions the war would be a cake walk punctuated with GI's being
greeted as liberators with flowers; they chortled at promises the war
would last just a few months, cost no more than $70 billion, be
self-financed with revenue from Iraqi oil, and that our installing
democracy would inspire and impress the world leading to a falling of
dominoes in a democratic, pro-American direction throughout the Middle
East.
Seething with righteousness indignation and contempt before we let the
bombs fly, conservative Republicans shot back at the Leftist
Insurgent/traitorous Democrats that, "You just wait. Not only does
Saddam indeed have Weapons of Mass Destruction, we know right where
they are!"
Well only idiots today deny that conservative Republicans were right
about EVERYTHING.
What do you say, Yaketyak, that we start a movement to launch book &
newspaper burnings, heresy trials, establish re-education camps, and
burn the witches of dissent who dare to suggest that America's
leaders, who, as we know, follow only God's divine light and wisdom,
aren't inspired prophets but dangerous wackadoodles.
Surely I can count on you to stand with me to save our endangered
country from the infidels, no?
Gary
GrgLnsctt
>democracy would inspire and impress the world leading to a falling of
>dominoes in a democratic, pro-American direction throughout the Middle
>East.
Gary,
Yeep! Freedom dominoes. I like it. It's a great time for the spread of freedom
and democracy. We won the Cold war and we're going to clean up a few messes
from it. Let freedom ring. :)
Greg
Yaketyak
the Kerry mentality and all its pomposity..
Gary Aguilar
> Your elitism is showing again... condescending attitude duly noted. Shades of
> the Kerry mentality and all its pomposity..
>
But are you a patriot like me or aren't you?
Gary
>
>
>
>
> On 9/11 the blood of 3000 innocents brought all Americans together.
> For the first time in nearly 50 years the country thought and acted
> as one... the Bush Administration, having ignored 40 clear warnings that 9/11 >was coming, let it happen.
>
> The blood of America is on Bush's and his cleptocronies' hands
Yaketyak
internationalism and I refuse to accept your concept of American guilt.
You are no patriot.. you and your kind are the true enemy.. the leftist
insurgency allied with the eurotrash socialists. You and your kind will not
cease until you have a full blown attempt at revolution on your hands one way
or another..
American nationalism is your biggest fear because it robs you of your
influence, replaces your lies with reality and shows you to be what you are
rather than what you claim to be. Your ideology of progressive socialism has
no substance but lies, like its ideologues.
When we were attacked you all scurried into the dark corners for a few weeks
out of fear because Americans finally pulled together.. as you all slithered
back out into the sunlight later you started your subversive trash all over
again but toned down, now you are all back at it full force until the country
slapped you down by showing comrade Kerry the back door.
Tell us.. how many Americans and Iraqi's do you think you are responsible for
killing by your support of the UN and its corruption ? Dare you say...
On 2 Dec 2004 18:09:53 -0800, gar...@ix.netcom.com (Gary Aguilar) wrote:
>Yaketyak <Yake...@dontcomeback.gov> wrote in message news:<57fsq05d4sis587vc...@4ax.com>...
>> Your elitism is showing again... condescending attitude duly noted. Shades of
>> the Kerry mentality and all its pomposity..
>>
>Oh, sure, sure, "elitism," "Condescending attitude," etc. - right ho.
>
>But are you a patriot like me or aren't you?
On 9/11 the blood of 3000 innocents brought all Americans together.
For the first time in nearly 50 years the country thought and acted
as one... the Leftist Insurgents calling themselves "Democrats" have
been prying us apart with every possible trick and lie ever since.
The blood of America is on their hands..
Gary Aguilar
> It just drives you up the walls that Americans elected an American for
> president instead of a wannabe eurotrashapeon. You hate everything this
> country does and yet you remain.. your progressive socialist trash has been
> shown wanting.. move to europe where you will fit in better with the other
> self annointed elites.
>
Oh, Yaketyak, how you misread me! Bush proved Eurotrash wrong when
Saddam was found with WMDs, when Saddam was finally linked to 9/11, to
bin Laden, to Al Qaeda; when our liberation of Iraq turned out to be
the cakewalk Bush said it was; when we were greeted and treated as
liberators, when it cost us only $70 Billion which American taxpayers
were repaid with Iraqi oil; when dominoes fell around the Middle East
with U.S.-supported tyranies toppling into democracies. Yeah, brother,
verily I say unto thee: Bush's every word has proved to be true,
hasn't it, and the Eurotrash can't stand it.
We Americans are damned lucky to have God running our country through
his chosen disciple, George Bush. The Eurotrash have nothing to offer
us when we've already got God on our side.
But, again, I must say, you totally misunderstand my patriotism,
Yaketyak. I'm hoping to work up the sort of courage your military
service imbued you with. Soon, very soon, I'll courageously start
using a silly alias, like you do, and stop using my real name. Hiding
under an alias is obviously a mark of your remarkable bravery. I'm
shamed by the grand example you set, Yaketyak. You're such an inspiration!
Peace and love, brother.
Gary
Gary Aguilar
shamed the grand example you set, Yaketyak.
gar...@ix.netcom.com
The thing that most blesses us as Americans, who have been continuously
at war for 63 years - save for the stretch between the USSR exploding
and the Twin Towers imploding [The "Cold War" was a war, remember?] -
is that our military leadership has been so damned credible and
competent. Who the hell needs an informed electorate when you can have
the military leadership we've had?
I say: to hell with insisting the government be honest with and
accountable to the supposed source of its authority, the people. When
you get the marvelous results we've gotten from our government's
operating controversially and without consulting the people, we need to
just keep the lid on and hope for more of the same.
For example, the military pitched Kennedy hard to send GIs into Laos
and Vietnam because, they predicted, if we didn't win in battle in that
part of the world, all of Southeast Asia would fall like dominoes to
communism. Sure enough, after we lost in Vietnam, Japan
fell to the Commies. Then Tailand, Laos, and then the rest of Asia
collapsed all like a house of cards to to the Evil Minions. If we'd
only listened to the Pentagon back then and REALLY fought, and I mean
with nukes, we might have knocked off a few measly million more gooks,
but we wouldn't today be facing a communist Japan, Tailand, Laos,
Cambodia, or Vietnam, and God would still be in his heaven.
And thank God we had a courageous Republican as president when we faced
the new world after 9/11, rather than someone like that coward Kennedy
who was too chicken to let our boys in uniform do their stuff back when
civilization could still have been saved.
The military has proved its worth in spades in the last 3 years.
Afghanistan has an elected president for the first time who, while he
may or may not have really won the vote at home, certainly won the
American vote. And the poor are much better off now having bumper crops
of opium to sell, a benefit the theofascists we deposed had deprived
the poor of. Poor American heroin users are better off, too, given the
softening of contraband prices that has followed the swollen supply.
(And who was it who said that Bush wasn't a "compassionate
conservative?")
And was our military ever right about Iraq! Remember how Liberal
Democrats sneered at the Republican militarists who said that:
1. Madman Saddam was bristling with Weapons of Mass Destruction,
2. That he posed a imminent threat to America,
3. That Saddam was connected to 9/11,
4. That Saddam was tied to the Taliban,
5. That Saddam was tied to bin Laden;
6 That the war would be a cake walk punctuated with GI's being
greeted as liberators with flowers,
7. That the war would last just a few months,
8 That the war would cost no more than $70 billion,
9. That the war would be self-financed with revenue from Iraqi oil and
10. That our installing democracy would inspire and impress the world?
Well the liberal Democrats are all eating crow now, aren't they?
Since the military has been absolutely right all along - from falling
dominoes in S.E. Asia to imminent, mortal threats in Iraq. And since
our cake-walk crushing of all foes of freedom and democracy in Iraq has
gone so swimmingly well, only a fool would bother her pretty little
head about the glorious future that lies ahead as America continues to
pursue its perennial and perfected pattern of secrecy and deceit. Damn,
but its worked such wonders so far!
Only when all the American-toppled dominoes have finally fallen
throughout the world toward freedom and democracy will we Americans
truly understand that our freedom and democracy had nothing to do with
liberating the world. The Pentagon's secrecy, deception and conniving
did. And on that glorious day of victory we will have the Pentagon to
thank, and maybe even God, who was kind enough to let our military
carry out his blessed vision for hope in the world.
Gary
Nigel Brooks
news:1102572255....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> How right you are, Yaketyak, for a change!
>
> The thing that most blesses us as Americans, who have been continuously
> at war for 63 years - save for the stretch between the USSR exploding
> and the Twin Towers imploding [The "Cold War" was a war, remember?] -
> is that our military leadership has been so damned credible and
> competent. Who the hell needs an informed electorate when you can have
> the military leadership we've had?
>
Gabe:
It is the holiday season and I know that you have a lot of demands being
made on you.
However:
The young men and women who are at Walter Reed have given a lot. Now it is
our turn to help them.
Support the Wounded
Those yellow ribbons you have tied around trees and red, white and blue
stickers on the back of your SUV saying "Support our Troops" are things
that make civilians feel good but do nothing for the men and women actually
in uniform.
So please consider the following:
The number ONE request at Walter Reed hospital is phone cards. The
government doesn't pay long distance phone charges and these wounded
soldiers are rationing their calls home.
Many will be there throughout the holidays. Really support our troops --Send
phone cards of any amount to:
Medical Family Assistance Center
Walter Reed Medical Center
6900 Georgia Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20307-5001
They say they need an "endless" supply of these -- any amount even $5 is
greatly appreciated.
Walmart has good prices on AT&T cards, Sams Club is even better, if you are
a member.
Please pass this portion on, copy and paste it into your e-mail, and send to
everyone you know.
NOTE: ANYONE can also buy phone cards through the PX on line by going to
this web address: (They will even mail them to a specific Soldier if you
have their address)
https://thor.aafes.com/scs/default.aspx
Seasons Greetings Gabe
--
Nigel Brooks
GrgLnsctt
>you get the marvelous results we've gotten from our government's
>operating controversially and without consulting the people, we need to
>just keep the lid on and hope for more of the same.
Gary,
- LMAO. You might have missed the opportunity to serve your nation, but I can
assure you the citizens of our country are our government and our military.
Common ordinary people next door serve in government and in the military. If
you would have participated in our system, you would have easily recognized
your fellow workers/soldiers as the guy/gal next door.
Greg
gar...@ix.netcom.com
saving my "unAmerican" [or would that be "anti-American"] soul..
For more than 20 years I've volunteered 5+ hours per month providing
personal medical care and teaching at an inner city hospital serving
POOR AMERICANS.
At one time I volunteered at a Veterans hospital, providing medical
care to VETERANS, many of whom were POOR. I don't do that anymore
because, since moving my family, I no longer teach at the university
that was afiliated with that particluar VA hospital; I therefore now
give free service through a different university, the one through which
I work for free in the inner city..
On a regular basis, I see as patients POOR AMERICANS in my office, and
I don't charge them.
This is in addition to my traveling abroad to give service to the poor.
For none of these things do I get a cent. In fact, it often costs me to
provide the care - office/surgical supplies, staff salaries, overhead
expense, air fare, lodgings, etc.
But I'll always be a traitor to you because I took the option not to
join when I got a high lottery number, which I got at a time when it
was abundantly clear that my government was acting dishonorably to
American citizens, to say nothing of what it was doing to the
Vietnamese, and deceiving, deceiving, deceiving in a way that mocks
your mawkisn malarky about the citizens of our country being our govt
and our military.
In your eyes, since I've never put on a uniform, I've never
participated in "our system," never "served my nation," etc.
Gadzooks!
The bottom line is that you see me, and the millions like me, as
"traitors," right? But if we'd bought the lies and deceptions the way
you did, why I'd be a "Real American," wouldn't we?
You once claimed that although I've given freely of my self in
Guatemala, in Mexico and in Africa, since I've not given free help to
AMERICANS, that I've not 'served my nation.' And you implied I might
have partially redeemed myself if I'd given care to US servicepeople.
But, as I said, I did do that, for free.
So tell me, patriot Greg: What have you done for your fellow Americans?
And when you gave service in the military, did you get a paycheck, or
did you, like me, provide your service for free?
Tell me something else: When Bush said Saddam posed an "immiinent
threat" to America, did you believe him? When he tied Saddam to
yellowcake, did you believe him? When he linked Saddam to 9/11, to bin
Laden, to missiles capable of hitting American shores, did you believe
him? When he crowed about how we'd accomplished our Iraqi mission as he
strutted across the air craft carrier, did you believe we'd won?
In other words, are you a REAL American, or just one of them
"patriots?"
Because most of the real Americans I know didn't believe him then, and
have been proved right. It was the faux Americans, them "patriots,"
that believed him. And they're the same crown that also believed we'd
been attacked in the Tonkin Gulf on 8/4/64, that you could take the
Pentagon's casualty figures to the bank, that My Lai never happen, that
we were not conducting secret wars in Laos and Cambodia, and that Nixon
was not a crook.
Gary
Nigel Brooks
>news:1102725383.0...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Oh, Greg, thanks so much for your sincere sermon and your interest in
> saving my "unAmerican" [or would that be "anti-American"] soul..
> For more than 20 years I've volunteered 5+ hours per month providing
> personal medical care and teaching at an inner city hospital serving
> POOR AMERICANS.
How many exams for specs would that be Gabe?
Does 5+ mean more than 5, but less than 6?
> At one time I volunteered at a Veterans hospital, providing medical
> care to VETERANS, many of whom were POOR. I don't do that anymore
> because, since moving my family, I no longer teach at the university
> that was afiliated with that particluar VA hospital; I therefore now
> give free service through a different university, the one through which
> I work for free in the inner city..
>
> On a regular basis, I see as patients POOR AMERICANS in my office, and
> I don't charge them.
Would it be safe to assume that you pass off that cost to those who can
afford your services - or are you truly a good Samaritan and you pass it off
to the taxpayers by taking it as tax deduction
> This is in addition to my traveling abroad to give service to the poor.
Are we subsidizing your foreign travel and care giving to foreigners by your
use of tax deductions Gabe?
> For none of these things do I get a cent. In fact, it often costs me to
> provide the care - office/surgical supplies, staff salaries, overhead
> expense, air fare, lodgings, etc.
Really - truly Gabe? You don't take advantage of the generous tax breaks
and deductions you get for such things - you truly are a Saint.
> But I'll always be a traitor to you because I took the option not to
> join when I got a high lottery number, which I got at a time when it
> was abundantly clear that my government was acting dishonorably to
> American citizens, to say nothing of what it was doing to the
> Vietnamese, and deceiving, deceiving, deceiving in a way that mocks
> your mawkisn malarky about the citizens of our country being our govt
> and our military.
But Gabe - a man with your talents was sorely needed - you could have done a
lot of good - perhaps saved the sight of some GI at a Field Hospital. You
could even have gone to Vietnam and joined in the care giving of the
Vietnamese which the Medical Corp did over there.
Gabe - of course most of the "real Americans" you know didn't believe him.
But then most of the "real Americans'" you know believe that Kennedy was
assassinated because of a Conspiracy, they believe all of those things that
you believe.
Birds of a feather Gabe
Birds of a feather.
Most real Americans - bwahahahahahaha
Nigel Brooks
Yaketyak
the result of your personal guilt than anything anyone has accused you of..
Suffer with it..
On 9/11 the blood of 3000 innocents brought all Americans together.
GrgLnsctt
>"traitors," right? But if we'd bought the lies and deceptions the way
>you did, why I'd be a "Real American," wouldn't we?
>
Gary,
Nah! I've never called you or anyone a traitor. Lies and deceptions are part
and parcel to war; from all quarters, from every side, umpteen different POVs
are promulgating great amounts of propaganda. Where is the truth? I didn't
believe anyone, then or now. I had to go see for myself and found it in the
jungles of Vietnam. I was rewarded with the truth (some people place great
value on monetary compensation as a barometer of some kind. I don't).
For those who failed to participate, their understanding is greatly limited to
the interpretations of others. Direct participation in the military/government
gives one a much different view. To make observations at a great distance (safe
and secure) may obscur/blur the truth.
The truth is not cheap. It cannot be found with dollars and rigorous scholarly
examination. The truth demands great risks and peril. Many of us are no longer
burdened with the who/why/what's of the Vietnam war, Cold war or war, period.
That is our reward. For those who played it safe (worked the system), their
eternal burden is a maddening and endless search which invariably leads them to
only one conclusion - it was all a conspiracy. For those of us who
participated, we are free to live the rest of our lives unincumbered and
relaxed. For those who held back; more citations, more documentation and more
study. They have something to prove (and only to themselves).
Greg
gar...@ix.netcom.com
>>How many exams for specs would that be Gabe?
Does 5+ mean more than 5, but less than 6?<<
Don't "do" specs, Nigel. I provide surgical services and teach them to
resident physicians. Your sincere interest is appreciated, though.
AND:
>>Would it be safe to assume that you pass off that cost to those who
can
afford your services - or are you truly a good Samaritan and you pass
it off
to the taxpayers by taking it as tax deduction<<
Do you contribute to charities, Nigel? If so, do you contribute with
"before tax" or "after tax" dollars? If you say you always pay taxes
and then send in your contributions I'll assume you don't contribute
much, because no one who does contribute a lot does it that way. So is
everyone who send in "pre-tax" dollars a cheat, Nigel?
>>But Gabe - a man with your talents was sorely needed - you could have
done a
lot of good - perhaps saved the sight of some GI at a Field Hospital.
You
could even have gone to Vietnam and joined in the care giving of the
Vietnamese which the Medical Corp did over there.<<
There it is, isn't it, Nigel? The only genuine contribution anyone can
make, in your mind anyway, is to a war effort. Any other charity,
kindness, contribution or offering is bunk, a tax dodge, etc., right?
>>But then most of the "real Americans'" you know believe that Kennedy
was
assassinated because of a Conspiracy, they believe all of those things
that
you believe.<<
The vast majority of Americans, real and otherwise, have always known
the Warren Commission's theory was kooky and that Kennedy didn't fall
to just a lone nut.
I guess you therefore hate the majority of Americans, don't you, Nigel?
Gary
gar...@ix.netcom.com
Tell me: If we'd bought the lies and deceptions the way
you did, would you see me as a "Real American?"
So tell me, patriot Greg: What have you done for your fellow Americans?
And when you gave service in the military, did you get a paycheck, or
did you, like me, provide your service for free?
Tell me something else: When Bush said Saddam posed an "imminent
threat" to America, did you believe him? When he tied Saddam to
yellowcake, did you believe him? When he linked Saddam to 9/11, to bin
Laden, to missiles capable of hitting American shores, did you believe
him? When he crowed about how we'd accomplished our Iraqi mission as he
strutted across the air craft carrier, did you believe we'd won?
In other words, are you as "unencumbered and relaxed" when you are lied
to about war these days as you are about being lied to re: Vietnam?
In other words, are you a REAL American, or just one of them
"patriots?"
Because most of the real Americans I know didn't believe Bush then, and
have been proved right. It was the faux Americans, them "patriots,"
that believed him. And they're the same crowd that also believed we'd
been attacked in the Tonkin Gulf on 8/4/64, that you could take the
Pentagon's casualty figures to the bank, that My Lai never happened,
Nigel Brooks
Thanks for clearing that up "Saint Gabe the giver."
--
Nigel Brooks
<gar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1102916563.7...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
GrgLnsctt
>make, in your mind anyway, is to a war effort. Any other charity,
>kindness, contribution or offering is bunk, a tax dodge, etc., right?
Gary,
Nah! the optimal situation is to contribute in both peace & war. Live life to
the fullest and participate in both safe and unsafe conditions. The later
(risky) producing a much richer environment of experiences not available in
peace.
Greg
GrgLnsctt
>to about war these days as you are about being lied to re: Vietnam?
Gary,
Yeep! For the umpteenth time - in the immediate aftermath of 9-11, the leader
(GWB) declared the events of that day an act of war. The first casualty of war
is the truth. I immediately knew we would be barraged with propaganda (lies). I
interpreted elevated terrorist threats, WMD and Saddam's threat to be total
exaggerated BS. Unencumbered and relaxed, Yes. I have given my government my
total and complete support in advancing freedom and democracy to others. They
can lie and deceive to attain our goal of mutually assured freedom and
democracy.
Maybe the greatest pain you have ever endured is the awful pain of a lie. How
many sleepless and tortured nights have you endured, Gary? Had you participated
in war, you would know there is much more at stake than the truth.
Greg
gar...@ix.netcom.com
Hospital de la Familia organization a check for $1000. In turn they get
me a plane ticket and arrange my bus transportation (a 6-hour ride) to
the remote town of Nuevo Progreso once I'm in-country. And for that
$1000 they also feed me for the time I'm down there. I bring my own
supplies, some from my office that I paid for as a "business expense"
myself and some are donated by corporations.
My $1000 is considered a tax-deductible donation and I pay it with
pre-tax dollars. This past year, I sent them $2000 because I brought my
15-year old daugher along to help in the clinic and to help out in
surgery. [She liked it and can't wait to go again.] Sure enough, I
"ripped off" Uncle Sam for my daughter, too; I paid the whole $2000
with pre-tax dollars.
But you know donors to orphanages, homeless shelters, hospitals,
universities and churches have been similarly "ripping off" Uncle Sam
in the same way I have. And I've been among them, having donated to
orphanages, homeless shelters, hospitals, universities, churches and
political parties.
How many churches, orphanages, homeless shelters, and universities,
hospitals would have to close if Uncle Sam stopped encouraging people
to "rip it off" in this way, Greg? [I'm sure that since you're such a
"loyal American," you've never made a tax-deductible donation, and so
"ripped off" Uncle Sam, have you?]
It really burns you up, doesn't it Brooks?, that despite the govt's
considerable efforts to deny conspiracy in JFK's death, the House
Select Committee, the last govt. investigation to weigh in, decided
that in fact there HAD BEEN a conspiracy to whack JFK. It also must
burn you up that the vast majority now sides with the govt that there
was a conspiracy. You're always so trusting of the govt, Brooks, so why
now about this?
It must also burn you up that only Fox News Channel viewers actually
now believe that Saddam had WMDs, had ties to 9/11, had ties to bin
Laden, that the Iraqi War has been a rousing success, that we've been
greeted and treated as liberators and not as occupiers.
But don't you worry your pretty little head, Brooks. There will always
be people like you who trust when the govt announces the most baldfaced
lies.
And there will always be people like you who hate those of us who have
a little extra jingle and send it, tax deductibly, and so do so much
good in the world. It's a terrible thing, I know, Brooks.
And I know, I know: If you had your way, none of those good works would
ever get done: orphanages, hospitals, schools, homeless shelters, etc.
would close, and, as far as you're concerned, the world would be a
better place.
The rest of us are happy because you're just as daft about the
conspiracy as you are about the "tax ripoff" artists like me who make
pre-tax charitable donations.
Say, Brooks, why don't you come along as my guest to a San Francisco
Republican Roundtable meeting and explain to this group that has so
many deep-pocketed donors what a rip off of America their tax
deductible donations are?
Gary
gar...@ix.netcom.com
told me, that the ends don't justify the means? In other words, if the
US's intentions are so god-damned honorable, do they have to lie, cheat
and steal to accomplish them? I don't think so, and I don't think your
mammy would think so.
The fact that the govt does lie, cheat and steal should, I believe,
undermine your absolute faith that your govt has a sincere interest in
"advancing freedom and democracy to others."
If it really had had such an interest, it wouldn't have toppled the
relatively free democracies in Iran in '53, in Guatemala in '54, in
Chile in '73, etc. to replace them with totalitarian,
death-squad-running repressive dictatorships.
Think about it: the reason we were attacked on 9/11 is not, even the
Pentagon now agrees, because we love freedom, democracy, baseball and
apple pie, like Bush's boys said; they attacked because we have our
troops in their holy land shoring up, what else?, the Saudi
dictatorship. a very repressive one.
So what do we do when they hate us for violating their sacred
traditions with our troops? Why, we send more troops! We don't
re-examine the misguided policies that led people to justifiably hate
us so.
As skeptical a fellow as you pretend to be, Greg, even you must
occasionally blush at Bush's balderdash, no? I mean you can't REALLY
be that guillible, can you?
Gary
Nigel Brooks
<gar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1102967728.0...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> O.K., I confess:
Good - it's about time you were honest about something
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Mike Baden
Cyril Wecht
American Medical Association
McAdams
Insert rejoinder here
Nigel Brooks
GrgLnsctt
>occasionally blush at Bush's balderdash, no? I mean you can't REALLY
>be that guillible, can you?
>
Gary,
Nah! I love GWB's balderdash. He actually believes in that stuff (freedom &
democracy) as do I. GWB is the anti-LBJ. LBJ was full of doubt and indecision.
GWB is full of determination and resolve. GWB did in Iraq what LBJ should have
done in Vietnam (roll the tanks into Hanoi).
When it comes to freedom, the ends justify the means. Without freedom we are
nothing. I will celebrate with the millions in SW Asia who now have freedom.
You can agonize, rant and rave over the terrible indignity of being denied
access to the truth and the most awful and excruciating pain you've endured by
lies. I didn't believe the lies from the getgo, didn't cause me one moment's
grief. :)
You still have your freedom, Gary. And more are joinging the club every day.
Sometimes tyrants and their evil regimes must be forcibly removed. And if I
have to fudge the truth to get to the ultimate goal, so be it. :)
And thank you for your charitable works in Honduras? You are an ambassador
America can be proud of. I too contribute heavily, but am way too modest to
cite a crass meaningless dollar number or service. Others have given way more
than I could ever give (their lives). My contribution nothing by comparison.
You should have joined us in Vietnam, Gary. The experience literally changed my
whole perception of life, liberty, freedom and democracy. I discovered the
truth in those jungles. With hazardous duty pay, I think I hauled in around
$120-130 a month. The experience far more valuable than any monetary
compensation. It was priceless and richly rewarding. I will always be humble
and thankful I had the opportunity to help something bigger than myself. I
would like to think we were providing a basic humanitarian need - freedom. And
we most certainly did. :)
Greg
gar...@ix.netcom.com
considerable efforts to deny conspiracy in JFK's death, the House
Select Committee, the last govt. investigation to weigh in, decided
that in fact there HAD BEEN a conspiracy to whack JFK. It also must
burn you up that the vast majority now sides with the govt that there
was a conspiracy. You're always so trusting of the govt, Brooks, so why
now about this?
It must also burn you up that only Fox News Channel viewers actually
now believe that Saddam had WMDs, had ties to 9/11, had ties to bin
Laden, that the Iraqi War has been a rousing success, that we've been
greeted and treated as liberators and not as occupiers.
But don't you worry your pretty little head, Brooks. There will always
be people like you who, despite being fooled over and over again, will
still be dewey-eyed and trusting when the govt announces the next
baldfaced lie. PT Barnum had something to say that I can't quite recall
that explains the amazing phenomenon.
And there will always be people like you who hate those of us who have
a little extra jingle and send it, tax deductibly, and so do so much
good in the world. It's a terrible thing, I know, Brooks. Perhaps
you'll someday be so good as to join us deep-pockets at the San
Francisco Republican Rountable and explain how unpatriotic our pre-tax,
charitable donations are.]
And I know, I know: If you had your way, none of those good works would
ever get done: orphanages, hospitals, schools, homeless shelters,
etc.would close, and, as far as you're concerned, the world would be a
better place.
It's a cryin' shame, ain't it, Nigel, babe?
Gary
Nigel Brooks
news:1102988645.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> It really burns you up, doesn't it Brooks?,
Eeerrrrrrrrrrr Gabe
Didn't you already post this - or is there one heck of an echo in this
place?
--
Nigel Brooks
Nigel Brooks
<gar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1102988645.9...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> It's a cryin' shame, ain't it, Nigel, babe?
You know what is a crying shame Gabe?
When some arrogant, self centered, self important, self aggrandizing, clown
complains to someone's employer about their posting on the internet - now
that's a crying shame.
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McAdams
--
Nigel Brooks
Nigel Brooks
news:1103002399.4...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> Oh, phlueeze explain, oh vague one!
>
> Gary
>
McAdams
Dolan
Baden
AMA
FBI
CIA
USG
tick
tick
tick
boom
--
Nigel Brooks
GrgLnsctt
>considerable efforts to deny conspiracy in JFK's death, the House
>Select Committee, the last govt. investigation to weigh in, d
Gary,
Who is telling the truth? The government lies, so the truth will not come from
a govt. agency/spokesperson. The government is not to be trusted, right? Should
we believe a private citizen? This is a delicious predicament you are in. You
bash the government for lying, but at the same time you demand they tell the
truth. So who will you believe? :)
Greg
Yaketyak
Since most of the democrats are actually dues paying socialists in more than
one recognized socialist organization maybe your bitch should be with them..
they claim to be Americans but their loyalty is to the "party" and its
"movement".. your'e being represented by your enemy.. do something
constructive about it.
On 14 Dec 2004 22:07:25 -0800, gar...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>The "contract" is that we pay taxes for "representation." The
>implication is that we're getting "accurate representation" of both our
>wishes and the facts upon which decisions in our name are made by the
>state. If either side violates this "contract," the deal's off.
Papa Doc Kofi.. mass murderer and Oil for Food KingPin
Nigel Brooks
news:1103090845.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> The "contract" is that we pay taxes for "representation." The
> implication is that we're getting "accurate representation" of both our
> wishes and the facts upon which decisions in our name are made by the
> state. If either side violates this "contract," the deal's off.
>
> instead, we pay with the full expectation we're getting "honest
> representation" of what has gone on in our name and with our tax
> dollars. It's really no different in any relationship, be it love,
> business or religious. If we've bargained in good faith, we expect the
> promised affection, goods, absolutions, whatever.
>
> But our govt. insists we, as citizens, behave "responsibly," about
> taxes, signed contracts, respect for the law, etc., while at the same
> time the govt. reserves for itself the right to act irresponsibly,
> deceiving the source of its power, the people, and in general not
> holding up its end of the bargain.
>
> If we'd agreed beforehand to abide state deceit and dishonor and if we
> agreed to be treated in bad faith, we'd have no grounds to balk at
> corrupt govt. But the implicit and explicit assumption is that we and
> the government are bound by the same law.
>
> But our govt often flouts the law, the "contract." Why should it be
> permitted to be above the law it insists "the people" respect when said
> law is supposedly based upon the wishes of "the people?"
>
> And so, when the state was lying to prospective draftees and their
> families during the Vietnam War about what was really going on, it
> broke the contract with "the people." What legitimate right, therefore,
> did the state have to insist "the people" perform on their part of the
> bargain? Maybe none!
>
> I maintain that when it lied it was "taxing based upon
> misrepresentation" and so the state lost the right to make demands. The
> power the public had ceded to the state had been surrendered back to
> the people based on the fact it had not used the power in the way it
> had pledged.
>
>
> Gary
>
Well there ya go again don't you Gabe.
Following the passage of the 16th Amendment in 1913, the modern Federal
Income Tax was enacted by the Congress. There is no contract - it's a law.
It has nothing to do with representation Gabe you old fool - because it it
did - then those who pay no taxes would not be represented would they?
Any perceived contract which you have with your government is made at the
time you cast your ballot. If in your opinion, the government violates that
contract then the remedy is in the ballot box at the next election.
McAdams
--
Nigel Brooks
GrgLnsctt
>The "contract" is that we pay taxes for "representation." The
>implication is that we're getting "accurate representation" of both our
>wishes and the facts upon which decisions in our name are made by the
>state. If either side violates this "contract," the deal's off.
Gary,
Not in time of war. All "contracts" are voided. Vietnam was a battle in the
Cold war against communist aggression. Our leaders made survival our top
priority. If the enemy prevailed would they honor your "contract"?
Greg
gar...@ix.netcom.com
gar...@ix.netcom.com
implication is that we're getting "accurate representation" of both our
wishes and the facts upon which decisions in our name are made by the
state. If either side violates this "contract," the deal's off.
We don't pay taxes hoping the govt. will lie to us or expecting it to;
gar...@ix.netcom.com
McAdams that Jesuit College professor at Marquette (Or is it junior
professor still, even after all these years?), who got slapped around
by his local newspaper, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel for having
accused his on-line disputants of being drug users and pedophiles?
I believe he is! I'd be happy to send you a copy of the article.
It's no small irony that you'd reach out to someone like him, Brooks.
And it's perhaps less ironic than one might think that a chap who
works for the Catholic Church gets his jollies accusing a male adult of
pedophilia! [Based on your usual mental operandi, let me guess: That
makes me an "anti-Catholic," right?]
McAdams may say what he will about the 16th amendment, but the contract
of which I speak is a "contract." It's not one written into law books,
of course, but is an assumed agreement between parties.
"The people" surrender authority to the state and have every right to
expect the representations of the state will be truthful. But if the
state wantonly violates the trust it is given, the people have a right
to consider the arrangement, the "contract," if you will, null and
void.
Who today would say my mother's parents, she being a DAR,
illigitimately threw off the British yoke? Well, the Brits, of course,
but principle isn't on their side, is it?
Put another way, when a govt violates the trust of the people it
governs, acting in bad faith, it loses the right to expect the people
to act in good faith toward it. Of course it still has the power and so
can murder at will to defend it's lies and deceits, just as it did in a
lot of the former communist countries as well as in the murderous
dictatorships we created and/or supported (Iran, Guatemala, Saudi
Arabia, Chile, Iraq, etc.). But these examples from history don't alter
the fact that the prinicple of accountable governance is voided when
the accounting is false.
Are you saying we don't have an accountable govt, then, Brooks, er, I
mean John McAdams, and that that's O.K.?
Gary
gar...@ix.netcom.com
you approve of, that's O.K. If opposing governments lie in pursuing
policies inimical to American interests, why that's proof positive of
the abysmally degenerate state of our opposition, right?
Pretty soon, you'll be telling me that when Rumsfeld gladhanded Saddam
after Saddam had gassed innocents, that that sort of "freedom" Rummy
was encouraging was a good thing.
And you'll be saying that when we attacked the Philippines in 1898 in
order to, as was claimed at the time, to "Christianize" a country that
by then had been Catholic 300+ years, that that "freedom" we were
spreading was a good thing; that the 200,000 Philippinos who died did
so for Christ and freedom and democracy.
And you'll be telling me that when we toppled democracies in Guatemala,
Iran, Chile and elsewhere to install murderous dictators who killed
hundreds of thousands, that that is the not-too-high price of freedom,
democracy and happiness, and it's something that should make the loyal
American breast swell with pride.
And finally, you'll be telling me that, when the scales finally fell
from his eyes and he confessed to his criminal collaborations as a
"ganster for capitalism," that Marine General, Smedley Butler, was a
traitor to freedom, democracy and the Bill of Rights. Is that right,
too?
Gary
[From the "Federation of American Scientists" website. Or, just google
"Smedley Butler" and scroll down.]
Smedley Butler on Interventionism
-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley
Butler, USMC.
War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as
something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a
small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the
benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a
nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with
America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it
gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag
follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy
investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight
for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of
Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is
blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle
men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and
a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.
It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison.
Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months
in active military service as a member of this country's most agile
military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks
from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I
spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business,
for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a
gangster for capitalism.
I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of
it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a
thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties
remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of
higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil
interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the
National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping
of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall
Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua
for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912
(where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the
Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I
helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a
swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al
Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in
three districts. I operated on three continents.
**************************************************
Don't pay any attention to ole Smedley, Greg. The bankers NEED guys
just like YOU! Happily, there will always be a ready supply of
gullible fools like you willing to take the bait.
Gary
gar...@ix.netcom.com
Hey Greg: You out there?
Don't abandon me now when I'm on a roll?
O.K.?
Hey, if I'm too tough for ya, just say so and I'll lighten up and make
nice like.
Your pal,
Gary
GrgLnsctt
>nice like.
>
Gary,
Nah! Your're a piece of cake. Tough? I faced that issue as a young man. You?
Inbound holiday family, business and massive deterioration on this ng have
conspired to distract my attention at the moment. :)
Greg
gar...@ix.netcom.com
the error(s) of his ways and repented. And you?
If you have old Smedley's credentials, Greg, I'm real keen to hear you
explain how/why he's wrong. He had a helluva lot more experience than
you ever did. So I'll take his word for it, especially since history
has shown how dishonest the military has been in the past 40 years.
It's as if Butler could tell the future, ain't it?
Gary
Yaketyak
The military or the Democrats who were running it at the time
On 18 Dec 2004 18:00:20 -0800, gar...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>especially since history
>has shown how dishonest the military has been in the past 40 years
Papa Doc Kofi.. mass murderer and Oil for Food KingPin
grgl...@cs.com
Gary,
I'm not to sure I would be quoting a guy (Smedley) who states he
"suspended his mental faculties for 30+ years". Sour grapes and
bitterness. His service reduced to being a pawn of bankers, big money
and rackteering.
Greg
gar...@ix.netcom.com
You wouldn't, would you? Well, I'll be damned! It may have taken a long
time for the scales to fall from his eyes, but at least they finally
fell.
And that's it, is it? All you got? Nothing better?
I overestimated you.
Gary
gar...@ix.netcom.com
You wouldn't, would you? Well, I'll be damned! It may have taken a long
time for the scales to fall from his eyes, but at least they finally
fell. If I were you I wouldn't be lording it over him. First of all, he
rose to a much higher rank than you did and so no doubt had a better
perview.
Secondly, it may have taken ole Butler a long time but he was a quick
study compared with you. For its now more than 30+ years later, isn't
it?, and you still haven't figured it out. I mean, I'll bet you're one
of those chaps who actually believes that even if Iraq didn't have oil
we'd still be there just the same.
And that's it, is it? All you got? Nothing better?
Gary