Marine Corps VS US Army
Chandler Knowles
TODAY'S AMERICAN INFANTRY IN BATTLE pp. 264-266.
"What makes Marine infantry special? Asking the question that way
misses the most fundamental point about the United States Marine Corps. In
the Marines, everyone-sergeant, mechanic, cannoneer, supply man, clerk,
aviator, cook-is a rifleman first. The entire corps, all 170,000 or so on
the active rolls, plus the reserves, are all infantry. All speak the
language of the rifle and bayonet, of muddy boots and long, hot marches.
It's never us and them, only us. That is the secret of the Corps."
"If Army infantry amounts to a stern monastic order standing apart, on
the edge of the wider secular soldier world, Marine infantry more resembles
the central totem worshiped by the entire tribe. Marines have specialized,
as have all modern military organizations. And despite the all-too-real
rigors of boot camp, annual rifle qualification, and high physical
standards, a Marine aircraft crew chief or radio repairman wouldn't make a
good 0311 on a squad assault. But those Marine technical types know that
they serve the humble grunt, the man who will look the enemy in the eye
within close to belly-ripping range. Moreover, all Marines think of
themselves as grunts at heart, just a bit out of practice at the moment.
That connection creates a great strength throughout the Corps." "It
explains why Marine commanders routinely, even casually, combine widely
disparate kinds of capabilities into small units.... Marines send junior
officers and NCOs out from their line rifle companies and expect results.
They get them, too."
"Even a single Marine has on call the firepower of the air wing, the
Navy, and all of the United States. Or at least he thinks he does. A Marine
acts accordingly. He is expected to take charge, to improvise, to adapt, to
overcome. A Marine gets by with ancient aircraft (the ratty C-46E Frog, for
example), hand-me-down weapons (such as the old M-60 tanks used in the Gulf
War), and whatever else he can bum off the Army or cajole out of the Navy.
Marines get the job done regardless, because they are Marines. They make a
virtue out of necessity. The men, not the gear, make the difference. Now
and again, the Marines want to send men, not bullets."
"This leads to a self-assurance that sometimes comes across as
disregard for detailed staff-college quality planning and short shrift for
high-level supervision. Senior Army officers in particular sometimes find
the Marines amateurish, cavalier, and overly trusting in just wading in and
letting the junior leaders sort it out. In the extreme, a few soldiers have
looked at the Corps as some weird, inferior, ersatz ground war
establishment, a bad knockoff of the real thing. 'A small, bitched-up army
talking Navy lingo,' opined Army Brigadier General Frank Armstrong in one
of the most brutal inter-service assessments. That was going too far. But
deep down, many Army professionals tended to wonder about the Marines. Grab
a defended beach? Definitely. Seize a hill? Sure, if you don't mind paying
a little. But take charge of a really big land operation? Not if we can
help it."
"Anyone who has watched an amphibious landing unfold would be careful
with that kind of thinking. The Marines actually have a lot in common with
their elite Army infantry brothers, if not with all the various Army
headquarters and service echelons. True, Marine orders do tend to be,
well...brief. But so do those of the airborne, the air assault, the
light-fighters, and the rangers, for the same good reason: Hard, realistic
training teaches soldiers how to fight by doing, over and over, so they
need not keep writing about it, regurgitating basics every time. More
enlightened soldiers consider that goodness. A three-inch thick order, a
big CP, and lots of meetings do not victory make. The Marines consciously
reject all that. And why not?
Despite the occasional Tarawa or Beirut, it works." "A Corps infused
with a rifleman ethos has few barriers to intra-service cooperation. The
Army talks a great deal about combined arms and does it down to about
battalion level, often with great wailing and gnashing of teeth. Marines do
it all the way down to the individual Marine. Soldiers have defined
military occupational specialties and guard their prerogatives like union
shop stewards. Finance clerks don't do machine guns. Mechanics skip foot
marches to fix trucks. Intell analysts work in air-conditioned trailers;
they don't patrol. Marines, though, are just Marines. They all consider
themselves trigger pullers. They even like it, as might be expected of an
elite body."
-- Colonel Daniel F. Bolger, USA DEATH GROUND: TODAY'S AMERICAN INFANTRY
IN BATTLE pp. 264-266.
--
Chandler Knowles
Pensacola, Florida
Larry Maloy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Larry
University of Utah
Academic Outreach and Continuing Education
"It is said that the only time a person feels
more important than the whole of his community is
when he is insane-or when he is driving."
Travis Culley, The Immortal Class
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chandler Knowles
"Larry Maloy" <lnospa...@aoce.utah.edu> wrote in message
news:3B8FFCFB...@aoce.utah.edu...
Spread Eagle
> Same side -- different modus operandi.
>
>
> "Larry Maloy" <lnospa...@aoce.utah.edu> wrote in message
> news:3B8FFCFB...@aoce.utah.edu...
> > I didn't know we were at war. I always thought we were on the same side.
For Marines the modus operandi is that, as a fighting force and as a
military organization, they are superior, that they are the best, and
that no one compares with them. Even if they don't say it, and
especially if they deny it (however unlikely), that's nonetheless
what's going on in their heads. They are thoroughly indoctrinated in
this way of thinking in their boot camp, and it continues from there.
That's okay. They're entitled. Furthermore, that attitude is a big
reason why they're so effective. But you need to understand this to
understand why Marines say the kinds of things the original poster
said in this thread.
Spread Eagle
Chandler Knowles
anyone else?
Have you ever tried to figure out why certain teams make it to the Super
Bowl? Talent? Sure, but lots of teams have talent. Its attitude. The
team that wants it the most, and believes in themselves the most, goes to
the Bowl and the others go home. That's what its all about. Football or
Marine Corps.
"Spread Eagle" <red...@virtualhosts.net> wrote in message
news:7059619f.01083...@posting.google.com...
pmartin
Ain't no one more Hard Corps then a Bills fan. Nothing.
-25 and no shirts on, tailgate parties. No DWI from
any police. 25" of snow and they come in and shovel
it all out the stadium, in fact no work for community
service sentenced people.
No one works if a game is on.
Buddy called in sick, had 5 grand on the game. Picture was
on the front page of climbing the fence. Suspended from
the USPS for two weeks.
Best never to ask as to why no roof on the stadium.....
Suicide to wear a Dolphins jacket here.
No joke, they have- been- shot ! Safer to wear Blue
in a Crips hood.
I hear any more " Bills Weather" I'm gonna shoot my TV.
3 minutes of News all the rest is " Bills" Sports.
Put 100 Marines in front of the Stadium and 10 Bills
fans will make dead meat out of them.
M 14s locked and loaded vs. Molson beer bottles ( empty)
It would be a one sided massacre.
Chandler Knowles <chandle...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:T5_j7.6798$KV3.5...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Herb F.
with Marines at a Sea Cadet bootcamp yesterday. A fellow in that program
called me up and asked me to volunteer to help train the kids.
I thought the Marines might be unhappy with an Army guy in their midst,
but since I outranked them all, how unhappy could they be? Besides, it
gave them a break and they could do some of their own work instead of
spending their time volunteering. It was a big class. 52 kids is pretty
hard to manage. I see why the New York City school teachers complain.
Using an old tried and true method, I made every cdet who spoke out of
turn come to the front of the class and give me 20 pushups. I then would
pretend to forget about them and leave them in the "lean and rest"
position for another 30 seconds to a minute. After about the fifth kid
they figured out that maybe they were better off being quiet.
I taught a class on prejudice. They knew very little history. Most
believed that the Ku Klux Klan came in with the Nazis. I had to explain
that they were about 100-years off mark.
Drug and Alcohol seemed to catch their attention. I had one cadet try to
fool me while pretending to take a urine test and showed them how I
followed him every moment, never took my eyes off of him, and even sat
and stared at him when he claimed he couldn't pee. They had lots of
urban legends about how to mask drugs (drink straight vinegar was one),
but I convinced them that it was all a waste of time. We gonna getcha.
(right Jonesy?)
First Aid went well. I had them practice the Hemlich (very softly), CPR
(no mouth-to-mouth) and some bandaging. I picked up one kid in a
fireman's carry and ran around the room with him over my shoulders. The
kids always seem to enjoy that sort of thing.
I gave them back to the Marines at noon and the kids seemed happy. A
dozen came over to shake hands and thank me, so they must have realized
that I had their best interests at heart. After being yelled at by the
Jarheads for a week, it must have been a relief to have someone who
spoke softly and didn't berate them.
I lunched with the Marines and we had a lot in common. I spoke about
techniques I used as a DI and was surprised to hear that they used all
the same tricks. I guess when a system has worked for thousands of years
everybody jumps on the bandwagon. Anyway, it was a nice day and Pat and
Bill will be happy to hear that their Jars are still dedicated and
volunteering to help train these kids at the same time that they are
doing their own jobs.
Richard C. Rivers
Sgt. R.C.
U.S.M.C. - Vietnam - 1966 -1967
"patrick t.h." <p.t.h...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:5clvot81rpv7gipr8...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2001 18:01:35 GMT, "Chandler Knowles"
> <chandle...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> Works for me. I have seen Privates telling, not asking Captains how
> to advance through the objective. The Captain, because he was smart,
> a Marine, and went throught that same training listened too.
> Thats why they made the big bucks.
>
> Semper Fi
Ray Pollard
Corps) that emphasises the interdependence between each Marine and the other.
From the smallest component of the unit (fire team) the concept of teamwork is
paramount. The idea that you and those around you depend upon each Marine doing
his or her job properly and to the best of their ability to make the mission a
success is so ingrained in Marines that the thought of letting ones fellow
Marines down is more dreaded than that of personal failure. Simply put, you do
what is required when it is required with more concern for your objective and
fellow Marines than for your personal safety.
The Cruciable (todays Marines final test in Boot Camp) is designed to
emphasise teamwork to acheive a common goal. I have wondered if the Army's
current "Army of One" approach is productive when taken in this context. I am
sure there are cases to be made for that approach on many levels but I will
always believe that the devotion to the Corps, it's past present & future (as a
general principal) and the devotion of individual Marines to their fellow
Marines (as a personalized principal) has always set the Corps apart from the
other services.
Ray Pollard
USMC I-Corps 1967,68,69
Bill Langston
Patrick took me to the MCRD when I was out there on business and just the
guy at the gate made me feel good. Since I got out over 30 years ago I have
had very little contact with the military and that short visit meant a lot
to me. What I would love to do someday is go to Parris Island and watch a
graduation ceremony.
SF, Bill
"Herb F." <Be...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:1468-3B9...@storefull-128.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Bill Langston
ain't a pretty picture by the way)
SF
BL
<p.t.h...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:4lrfptkkjn4t82g3o...@4ax.com...
| On Thu, 6 Sep 2001 16:28:02 -0500, "Bill Langston" <l...@cei.net>
| wrote:
|
| Bill,
| I might have an occasion to come out your way soon. I will try and
| schedule it so I can drop you off to go through "The Crucible".
| I been hearing so much about it and all. When you get done, you can
| come to town and look for the cheapest dive in town, I will be there
| having a brew waiting for you.
|
| Semper Fi