John McCain Is No Hero!
sam...@my-deja.com
He seriously violated the Military Code of Conduct by trading "military
information" and making public statements that appeared favorable to
the communist war effort in exchange for "special treatment."
After his release in 1973, McCain continued to helping the Vietnamese
communists.
Consisting of six articles in simple language, the United States
Military Code of Conduct orders American military personnel to resist
capture at all cost and if captured; to attempt to escape, to give the
enemy no information other than name, rank, serial number and date of
birth, to take charge if senior, to obey orders of the seniors, to
accept no favors from the enemy and to make no written or oral
statements disloyal to the United States.
In the original writing, the Code was declared the definitive code
specifying the responsibilities of American military personnel while in
combat or captivity.
The Code holds U.S. prisoners of war responsible to protect--at
whatever cost--the cause for which the United States stands by
continuing to carry on some form of resistance with the enemy. The
establishment of the Code of Conduct was the result of what was
considered in 1955 an embarrassing high number of U.S. servicemen held
prisoners during the Korean War who apparently did little to resist
collaborating with the enemy.
John McCain's Time Line
October 1967 – During his 23rd mission over Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967,
Lt. Commander John McCain was shot down by a surface-to-air missile.
After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his
captors who wanted military information from him, McCain called for an
officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K.,
I'll give you military information if you will take me to the
hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by
former POW John McCain
McCain was taken to Gai Lam military hospital. (U.S. government
documents)
"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to
terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate.
Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and
confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith
of My Fathers by John McCain
November 1967 - Nov. 9, 1967 (U.S. government documents) Hanoi press
began quoting him giving specific military information.
One report dated read, "To a question of the correspondent, McCain
answered: ‘My assignment to the Oriskany, I told myself, was due to
serious losses in pilots, which were sustained by this aircraft carrier
(due to its raids on the North Vietnam territory - VNA) and which
necessitated replacements. From 10 to 12 pilots were transferred like
me from the Forrestal to the Oriskany. Before I was shot down, we had
made several sorties. Altogether, I made about 23 flights over North
Vietnam.'"
In that report, McCain was quoted describing the number of aircraft in
his flight, information about rescue ships, and the order of which his
attack was supposed to take place.
Through the Freedom of Information Act, the U.S. Veteran Dispatch
acquired a declassified Department of Defense (DOD) transcript of an
interview prominent French television reporter Francois Chalais had
with McCain.
Chalais told of his private interview with POW McCain in a series
titled Life in Hanoi, which was aired in Europe. In the series, Chalais
said his meeting with McCain was "a meeting which will leave its mark
on my life."
"My meeting with John Sidney McCain was certainly one of those meetings
which will affect me most profoundly for the rest of my life. I had
asked the North Vietnamese authorities to allow me to personally
interrogate an American prisoner. They authorized me to do so. When
night fell, they took me---without any precautions or mystery--to a
hospital near the Gia Lam airport reserved for the military. (passage
omitted) The officer who receives me begins: I ask you not to ask any
questions of political nature. If this man replies in a way unfavorable
to us, they will not hesitate to speak of ‘brainwashing' and conclude
that we threatened him.
"‘This John Sidney McCain is not an ordinary prisoner. His father is
none other than Admiral Edmond John McCain, commander in chief of U.S.
naval forces in Europe. (passage omitted)'"
". . . Many visitors came to talk to me [John McCain]. Not all of it
was for interrogation. Once a famous North Vietnamese writer–an old man
with a Ho Chi Minh beard–came to my room, wanting to know all about
Ernest Hemingway . . . Others came to find out about life in the United
States. They figured because my father had such high military rank that
I was of the royalty or governing circle . . . One of the men who came
to see me, whose picture I recognized later, was Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap,
the hero of Dienbienphu." U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973
article written by former POW John McCain
December 1967 – Vietnamese and possibly Soviet doctors operate (early
December) on McCain's Leg. Later that month, six weeks after he was
shot down, McCain was taken from the hospital and delivered to Room No.
11 of "The Plantation" into the hands of two other U.S. POWs, Air
Force majors George "Bud" Day and Norris Overly. They helped further
nurse him along until he was eventually able to walk by himself. --
Faith of My Fathers by John McCain
January 1968 – McCain, Day and Overly, were relocated (early January)
to "another end of the camp, a place we called ‘the Corn Crib.'" A
group of "obviously senior" Communist Party members visited and talked
with McCain. --Faith of My Fathers by John McCain
February 1968 – Overly was offered and he accepted early release. He
was released February 16. --Faith of My Fathers by John McCain
Overly was released with David Matheny and John Black. "They were the
first three POW's to be released by the North Vietnamese." U.S. News
and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John
McCain
March 1968 – Day is "relocated" to another cell.--Faith of My Fathers
by John McCain
April 1968 – McCain was "moved into another building, the largest cell
block in the camp, ‘the Warehouse.'" Day was moved to another prison
(the Zoo). McCain began solitary confinement.--Faith of My Fathers by
John McCain
May 1968 – "In May of 1968, I [McCain] was interviewed by two North
Vietnamese generals at separate times." U.S. News and World Report, May
14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain
July 1968 - McCain claims he was next introduced for the first time to
the "torture ropes." He said the torture went on for several days
before he broke and agreed to write and sign a confession that he was a
"black criminal." McCain said that he was moved to another building
away from the other POWs. --The Nightingale's Song (No returned POWs
can confirm McCain's claims of being tortured)
McCain said (page 136) that he was so distraught because he had signed
the statement that he attempted suicide but was stopped when a guard
burst into the room. --The Nightingale's Song (No returned POWs can
confirm McCain's claims of "attempted suicide")
June 1969 – "Reds Say PW Songbird Is Pilot Son of Admiral
. . . Hanoi has aired a broadcast in which the pilot son of United
States Commander in the Pacific, Adm. John McCain, purportedly admits
to having bombed civilian targets in North Vietnam and praises medical
treatment he has received since being taken prisoner." New York Daily
News, June 5, 1969
"The English-Language broadcast beamed at South Vietnam was one of a
series using American prisoners. It was in response to a plea by
Defense Secretary Melvin S. Laird, May 19, that North Vietnam treat
prisoners according to the humanitarian standards set forth by the
Geneva Convention." The Washington Post - June 5, 1969
January 1970– "There was pressure to see American antiwar delegations,
which seemed to increase as the time went on. But, there wasn't any
torture. In January 1970, I [McCain] was taken to a quiz with ‘The
Cat.' He told me that he wanted me to see a foreign guest." U.S. News
and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John
McCain
A declassified DOD document reports an interview between POW McCain and
Dr. Fernando Barral, a Spanish psychiatrist who was living in Cuba at
the time. The interview was published in the Havana Granma in January
1970.
According to the DOD report, the meeting between Barral and McCain
(which was photographed by the Vietnamese) took place away from the
prison at the office of the Committee for Foreign Cultural Relations in
Hanoi. During the meeting, POW McCain sipped coffee and ate oranges and
cakes with his interrogator.
While talking with Barral, McCain seriously violated the military Code
of Conduct by failing to evade answering questions "to the utmost" of
his ability when he, according to the DOD report, helped Barral by
answering questions in Spanish, a language McCain had learned in
school.
March 15, 1973 – McCain was released from the Hanoi Hilton and
returned to the United States.
The Late Fall, 1974 - McCain returned to Vietnam with a delegation of
officials as guests of the South Vietnamese government to celebrate the
Republic of Vietnam's National Day. South Vietnam's president, Nguyen
Van Thieu, had invited representatives of major U.S. veterans
organizations and several POW's including McCain to honor the sacrifice
of U.S. veterans "for the South Vietnamese cause."
At a reception, the host, one of President Thieu's closest aides, told
the visiting U.S. veterans that he and the president would do anything
they could to make sure members of the delegation could meet anyone
they wanted or go anywhere they wanted to go.
McCain, still a United States Navy officer stuck up his hand and said
he wanted to visit Con Son Island. The request stunned the host and the
rest of the delegation. Con Son, located fifty miles off the southern
coast was the "site of South Vietnam's toughest prison, where the most
dangerous suspected communist and other prisoners were kept."
Four years before, in 1970, American anti-war activist Don Luce, had
led a U.S. congressional delegation to the prison island to publicize
South Vietnam's holding of prisoners in cells that became infamous as
South Vietnam's prisoner "tiger cages."
As a result of the Luce delegation trip to Con Son Island, the
communist Vietnamese had gained an international propaganda bonanza
against the U.S. war effort in Vietnam.
McCain's hosts were extremely uncomfortable with McCain's request, but
he kept pressing. A visit for McCain to Con Son was arranged for the
last day before the groups departure.
McCain visited the Con Son prison and interrogated camp officials about
the conditions in the prison.
Some where between Con Son and the mainland McCain decided not to make
an issue of the conditions in the prison. He did not speak on the
record for reporters waiting to hear what he had to say.
June 1, 1988- New York Times- "When John McCain arrived in here [in
Washington] as a freshman Republican Congressman in 1983, one of the
issues very much on his mind was how the United States should deal with
Vietnam . . . He was, he said, dismayed by the Reagan Administration's
flat refusal to afford any kind of diplomatic recognition to Hanoi,
something he thought could help clear up a number of issues, including
the fate of those servicemen still missing in action . . . Mr. McCain,
now the junior Senator from Arizona, is leading a legislative effort to
force the Administration to open a lower-level American post in
Vietnam, which could be preliminary to more formal relations."
July 11, 1995 - Sen. Jonh McCain, R-Ariz., and Sen. John Kerry, D-
Mass., gave President Bill Clinton the valuable political cover he
needed to remove the U.S. imposed trade embargo against communist
Vietnam. All major U.S. veterans organizations, the two POW/MIA family
groups, and the majority of Vietnamese Americans in this country
opposed Clinton's lifting of the embargo and the later normalizing of
diplomatic relations.
March 25, 1999, The Phoenix New Times: Ted Guy and Gordon "Swede"
Larson, two former POWs, who were McCain's senior ranking officers
(SRO's), at the time McCain says he was tortured in solitary
confinement, told the New Times that while they could not guarantee
that McCain was not physically harmed, they doubted it.
"Between the two of us, it's our belief, and to the best of our
knowledge, that no prisoner was beaten or harmed physically in that
camp [known as "The Plantation"]," Larson says. ". . . My only
contention with the McCain deal is that while he was at The Plantation,
to the best of my knowledge and Ted's knowledge, he was not physically
abused in any way. No one was in that camp. It was the camp that people
were released from."
U.S. Veteran Dispatch: http://www.usvetdsp.com/main.shtml
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Buck
How's your Tee Shirt scam going?
Would be awful to actually have to get a job, wouldn't it?
You aren't fit to lick John McCain's boots.
(And, NO, I'm supporting GW for the presidency. But I'll stand up for
McCain's character in any forum.)
Any body who wants the truth on this lying prick Sampley, check
WWW.MIAFACTS.ORG . That's Joe Schlatter's page. (Colonel Schlatter is a
little burned out lately, BUT I'M NOT.)
Buck
sam...@my-deja.com wrote in message <85qec1$24g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Charles G. White
goose necked, warped brained, aborted product of an ancient monkey gang
rape, with shit for brains; and you damn sure aint a Vietnam veteran.
P.S. Oh yes, Mr. Sampley, Sir, I forgot to call you an SOB!
To: Smith, who critiques my writing style. That was not my usual language,
but it felt good to get it said in a property manner.
sam...@my-deja.com wrote in message
> John McCain Is No "Hero POW"
> He seriously violated the Military Code of Conduct by trading "military
> information" and making public statements that appeared favorable to
> the communist war effort in exchangefor "special treatment."
>
> After his release in 1973, McCain continued to helping the Vietnamese
> communists.
>
> Consisting of six articles in simple language, the United States
> Military Code of Conduct orders American military personnel to resist
> capture at all cost and if captured; to attempt to escape, to give the
> enemy no information other than name, rank, serial number and date of
> birth, to take charge if senior, to obey orders of the seniors, to
> accept no favors from the enemy and to make no written or oral
> statements disloyal to the United States.
>
> In the original writing, the Code was declared the definitive code
> specifying the responsibilities of American military personnel while in
> combat or captivity.
>
> The Code holds U.S. prisoners of war responsible to protect--at
> whatever cost--the cause for which the United States stands by
> continuing to carry on some form of resistance with the enemy. The
> establishment of the Code of Conduct was the result of what was
> considered in 1955 an embarrassing high number of U.S. servicemen held
> prisoners during the Korean War who apparently did little to resist
> collaborating with the enemy.
>
> John McCain's Time Line
>
> October 1967 - During his 23rd mission over Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967,
> was for interrogation. Once a famous North Vietnamese writer-an old man
> with a Ho Chi Minh beard-came to my room, wanting to know all about
> Ernest Hemingway . . . Others came to find out about life in the United
> States. They figured because my father had such high military rank that
> I was of the royalty or governing circle . . . One of the men who came
> to see me, whose picture I recognized later, was Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap,
> the hero of Dienbienphu." U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973
> article written by former POW John McCain
>
> December 1967 - Vietnamese and possibly Soviet doctors operate (early
> December) on McCain's Leg. Later that month, six weeks after he was
> shot down, McCain was taken from the hospital and delivered to Room No.
> 11 of "The Plantation" into the hands of two other U.S. POWs, Air
> Force majors George "Bud" Day and Norris Overly. They helped further
> nurse him along until he was eventually able to walk by himself. --
> Faith of My Fathers by John McCain
>
> January 1968 - McCain, Day and Overly, were relocated (early January)
> to "another end of the camp, a place we called 'the Corn Crib.'" A
> group of "obviously senior" Communist Party members visited and talked
> with McCain. --Faith of My Fathers by John McCain
>
> February 1968 - Overly was offered and he accepted early release. He
> was released February 16. --Faith of My Fathers by John McCain
>
> Overly was released with David Matheny and John Black. "They were the
> first three POW's to be released by the North Vietnamese." U.S. News
> and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John
> McCain
>
> March 1968 - Day is "relocated" to another cell.--Faith of My Fathers
> by John McCain
>
> April 1968 - McCain was "moved into another building, the largest cell
> block in the camp, 'the Warehouse.'" Day was moved to another prison
> (the Zoo). McCain began solitary confinement.--Faith of My Fathers by
> John McCain
>
> May 1968 - "In May of 1968, I [McCain] was interviewed by two North
> Vietnamese generals at separate times." U.S. News and World Report, May
> 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain
>
> July 1968 - McCain claims he was next introduced for the first time to
> the "torture ropes." He said the torture went on for several days
> before he broke and agreed to write and sign a confession that he was a
> "black criminal." McCain said that he was moved to another building
> away from the other POWs. --The Nightingale's Song (No returned POWs
> can confirm McCain's claims of being tortured)
>
> McCain said (page 136) that he was so distraught because he had signed
> the statement that he attempted suicide but was stopped when a guard
> burst into the room. --The Nightingale's Song (No returned POWs can
> confirm McCain's claims of "attempted suicide")
>
> June 1969 - "Reds Say PW Songbird Is Pilot Son of Admiral
> . . . Hanoi has aired a broadcast in which the pilot son of United
> States Commander in the Pacific, Adm. John McCain, purportedly admits
> to having bombed civilian targets in North Vietnam and praises medical
> treatment he has received since being taken prisoner." New York Daily
> News, June 5, 1969
>
> "The English-Language broadcast beamed at South Vietnam was one of a
> series using American prisoners. It was in response to a plea by
> Defense Secretary Melvin S. Laird, May 19, that North Vietnam treat
> prisoners according to the humanitarian standards set forth by the
> Geneva Convention." The Washington Post - June 5, 1969
>
> January 1970- "There was pressure to see American antiwar delegations,
> which seemed to increase as the time went on. But, there wasn't any
> torture. In January 1970, I [McCain] was taken to a quiz with 'The
> Cat.' He told me that he wanted me to see a foreign guest." U.S. News
> and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John
> McCain
>
> A declassified DOD document reports an interview between POW McCain and
> Dr. Fernando Barral, a Spanish psychiatrist who was living in Cuba at
> the time. The interview was published in the Havana Granma in January
> 1970.
>
> According to the DOD report, the meeting between Barral and McCain
> (which was photographed by the Vietnamese) took place away from the
> prison at the office of the Committee for Foreign Cultural Relations in
> Hanoi. During the meeting, POW McCain sipped coffee and ate oranges and
> cakes with his interrogator.
>
> While talking with Barral, McCain seriously violated the military Code
> of Conduct by failing to evade answering questions "to the utmost" of
> his ability when he, according to the DOD report, helped Barral by
> answering questions in Spanish, a language McCain had learned in
> school.
>
> March 15, 1973 - McCain was released from the Hanoi Hilton and
GIjoe
disorder- concerning you and your crap about John McCain- just drop dead
you opportunist!
Charles G. White <whit...@amaonline.com> wrote in message
news:jR5g4.71$Pb4...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
Paul Edwards
<sam...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:85qec1$24g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> John McCain Is No "Hero POW"
Have you read this Code of Conduct that you keep referring too. Well
Superman would have trouble following it. It's no shame to give the name of
your ship for example. Hell if their intelligence gathering agency was not
able to gather theses names it wasn't worth much. I have no problems with
McCain on the things he did. I am not a McCain person but he was badly
hurt. The only qualm that I have with McCain is that he has not contacted
the person who saved his life by feeding him, keeping his wounds clean, and
cleaning the body excretions off him when he was so sick. He gives him
credit for saving his life but he hasn't contacted him since the POW's were
released. Why? He came home outa turn. Maybe he couldn't take it any more
like McCain. He should be more forgiving.
Semper Fi
The Doc
Charles G. White
P.S. To reiterate your own statement back to you:YOUR FUCKING OPINION IS NO
BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE'S!!!
Edward Combs wrote in message
> That is just YHO..right? I have never met Mr. Sampley and I will bet
neither
> have you. If you have met the man and have come to these conclusions after
> dealing with him ...fine...otherwise > .......................
> Charles G. White <whit...@amaonline.com> wrote in message
> news:jR5g4.71$Pb4...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
Charles G. White
> (And, NO, I'm supporting GW for the presidency. But I'll stand up for
> McCain's character in any forum.)
Same for me!
Edward Combs
have you. If you have met the man and have come to these conclusions after
ANYONE ELSE'S!!!
.......................
Charles G. White <whit...@amaonline.com> wrote in message
news:jR5g4.71$Pb4...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
sam...@my-deja.com
to get-off on attacking people from behind your key boards.
If you can show facts (not hear-say, not opinion) where what I have
written about John McCain is wrong, then I will retract my statements
and publicly apologize to Senator McCain.
Also, I challenge any of you to show the hard evidence (paperwork is
OK) where I made all those millions selling t-shirts. You can't do it
because it is a lie. Prove it. Show your vet "brothers" that you know
what you are talking about when you label another vet a "scam artist."
You are getting that crap from Susan Katz Keating's book, "Prisoners of
Hope." Sen. John McCain and the Pentagon's Col. Joe Schlatter were
primary sources for her book, in which all leading POW activists were
trashed.
McCain and Schlatter fed Keating lies. She printed their lies in her
book and now McCain and Schlatter refer to "Prisoners of Hope" when
they want to trash POW activists without having to be responsible for
their accusations.
Show the facts! Not hear-say, not opinion, you know, use the same
standards you require of the POW/MIA activists to prove live U.S. POWs
were left behind in Vietnam.
By the way, McCain can help you. At his request, senate staffers for
the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, came to my hometown in
1992 and seized all of my personal financial records and all of
Homecoming II's (of which I was chairman at the time). To this day, I
don't know what they took from my accountant. All I know is that they
scared the hell out of him and he gave them what they wanted.
Just think fellow vets, I was put through all of that because I dare to
challenge the U.S. government's LIE that NO Vietnam veterans were left
behind alive after the Vietnam War.
The Select Committee declared in its 1993 report that I made
$300,000.00 over three years selling t-shirts. Keating says I made two
million dollars during the same three years. Both are absolute lies
made up to discredit me personally.
Judging from the intenseness of your attacks, their lies worked on some
of you.
As for what I have written about John McCain, most of information came
directly from his quotes. Read carefully before you attack.
By the way, my seven-year-old son, Owen Lane Sampley, is doing fine. He
has started asking why his granddaddy, SFC Robert D. Owen, did not come
home from Laos. I will give Owen Lane your regards.
Ted Sampley
U.S. Army 1963-1973
Vietnam Vet -- 173rd Airborne 1965-1966
5th Special Forces Group 1969-1970
In article <ay3g4.5553$ro4.4...@news.flash.net>,
sam...@my-deja.com
government to prosecute enlisted POWs who made statements for the
communists.
In May 1973, almost immediately after he was released, Air Force
Colonel Ted Guy, who had been held POW for five years, demanded that
the U.S. government bring charges against eight former prisoners, most
of them enlisted men.
Col. Guy and other former POWs claimed that the "Plantation Eight" as
the accused soon became known, collaborated with the communist by
"making statements" and accepting "favors and gratuities."
John McCain, who has admitted that he gave "military information" in
exchange for better medical care and that he signed statements, was one
of the returned prisoners of war who was supporting the prosecution of
the "Plantation Eight."
McCain said in U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973, page 115:
"Once you become a prisoner of war, you do not have the right to
dissent, because what you do will be harming your country . . . Some of
my fellow prisoners sang a different tune, but they were a very small
minority. I ask myself if they should be prosecuted, and I don't find
that easy to answer. It might destroy a mighty fine image that a great
majority of us have brought back from that hell hole . . . If these men
are tried, it should not be because they took an anti-war stance but
because they collaborated with the Vietnamese to an extent and that was
harmful to other POWs . . . These men should bear some censure so that
in future wars there won't be a precedent for conduct that hurts this
country."
On June 27, 1973, while the military was in the process of preparing
the charges, one of the enlisted men committed suicide. Not long after,
the military jettisoned all plans to prosecute the remainder of the
accused.
The former POW that committed suicide was Marine Sergeant Abel Larry
Kavanaugh.
McCain responded to the suicide in U.S. News and World Report, Dec. 31,
1973, page 48: "All of us who had knowledge of their behavior were
given a hearing.
Although I was in favor of their going to trail, I certainly understand
and support the official decision" not to prosecute.
McCain added, "But I do think it is very important for us to consider
that we have a code of conduct for American prisoners of war that must
be upheld for others to follow in future wars."
For more go to: http:www.usvetdsp.com/main.shtml
In article <7G8g4.654$ZA3.7...@feed.centuryinter.net>,
"Paul Edwards" <pe...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> <sam...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:85qec1
$24g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > John McCain Is No "Hero POW"
>
> Have you read this Code of Conduct that you keep referring too. Well
> Superman would have trouble following it. It's no shame to give the
name of
> your ship for example. Hell if their intelligence gathering agency
was not
> able to gather theses names it wasn't worth much. I have no problems
with
> McCain on the things he did. I am not a McCain person but he was
badly
> hurt. The only qualm that I have with McCain is that he has not
contacted
> the person who saved his life by feeding him, keeping his wounds
clean, and
> cleaning the body excretions off him when he was so sick. He gives
him
> credit for saving his life but he hasn't contacted him since the
POW's were
> released. Why? He came home outa turn. Maybe he couldn't take it
any more
> like McCain. He should be more forgiving.
> Semper Fi
> The Doc
>
>
Marshall Paul
Marshall
Marshall Paul
just ignorant about you. OK. Well, I don't know you and you obviously
have done a lot of homework and have an agenda. Fine. But have you
spent one second as a POW in any war? Has that ever even been a remote
possibility? This group must be a test bed for you to try out rhetoric
with people whose natural sympathies will always be with those from our
ranks, our comrades, who have been captured in war time. Well, it is a
goddamn waste of time, because our responses will never and could never
be like those (more like yourself) who have not run the risk, much less
been in the circumstances of men like McCain. My response is to tell
you to go fuck yourself.
Marshall
Charles G. White
other posts, here, and I was
> just ignorant about you. OK. Well, I don't know you and you obviously
> have done a lot of homework and have an agenda. Fine. But have you
> spent one second as a POW in any war? Has that ever even been a remote
> possibility? This group must be a test bed for you to try out rhetoric
> with people whose natural sympathies will always be with those from our
> ranks, our comrades, who have been captured in war time. Well, it is a
> goddamn waste of time, because our responses will never and could never
> be like those (more like yourself) who have not run the risk, much less
> been in the circumstances of men like McCain. My response is to tell
> you to go fuck yourself.
Very well said, Marshall!
Edward Combs
bouther-in-law(of course he is not). This is the kind of remark that you
and other know-nothings use to inflame and tell lies(lie=to tell an untruth
AND it is untrue that Smapley is my kin folk of and kind). Too bad I have
to go by the AUP now of I would tell you what I REALLY think of you(of
course you won't be going by the rules so.................
....................................news:SY8g4.215$Pb4...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
Marshall Paul
But Ed's remark has me wondering...would I be violating the AUP if I
tell somebody what I think? And how will I know what anybody is
thinking, again, if they won't tell me? Should I read the AUP, now, so
that I am in conformance? Will someone's prediction that the mere
existence of the AUP now cause the group to split (and all because I am
bringing up my thoughts at this moment?) And is there a parallel
universe which began just a moment ago, in which I deleted this message,
and the group goes blissfully on as before, but somewhere else?
Marshall
...who did not think that Ed was related to Sampley by marriage...(can
recognize irony)
sam...@my-deja.com
Paul Edwards
<sam...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:85rqr8$vrl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> After he was released in 1973, John McCain advocated for the U.S.
> government to prosecute enlisted POWs who made statements for the
> communists.
I do know about this but the enlisted men always get screwed in a situation
like this. I say this not knowing how much collaboration they did or how
damaging it was to the other POW's. If it didn't go any farther than the
information McCain was supposed to have exchanged for medical care it should
be left alone. McCain can't have one set of rules just for himself. As I
said the Code of Conduct as it was written in the 1960;s was so tightly
drawn no one could have lived up to it. Well maybe a crazy Navy Admiral
named Stockdale.
Semper Fi
The Doc
BobS
sam...@my-deja.com wrote:
> . To this day, I
> don't know what they took from my accountant. All I know is that they
> scared the hell out of him and he gave them what they wanted
Just an observation , it is very easy to be critical .
I think the only one's that can truly judge him are
his fellow POW's
Also , I certainly hope you fired your accountant
because it looks like he conspired with the enemy
bOb
Perry
<abel...@postoffice.swbell.net> wrote:
>While I voted against the AUP, I don't have anything against, I think.
>But Ed's remark has me wondering...would I be violating the AUP if I
>tell somebody what I think? And how will I know what anybody is
>thinking, again, if they won't tell me? Should I read the AUP, now, so
>that I am in conformance? Will someone's prediction that the mere
>existence of the AUP now cause the group to split (and all because I am
>bringing up my thoughts at this moment?) And is there a parallel
>universe which began just a moment ago, in which I deleted this message,
>and the group goes blissfully on as before, but somewhere else?
>
>Marshall
>...who did not think that Ed was related to Sampley by marriage...(can
>recognize irony)
Yes it could be if the majority feels that way.
Bill Clarke
Why now?
Bill Clarke
F Troop, 17th Cav
Buck <Buck_W...@HotMail.Com> wrote in message
news:ay3g4.5553$ro4.4...@news.flash.net...
> >October 1967 - During his 23rd mission over Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967,
> >was for interrogation. Once a famous North Vietnamese writer-an old man
> >with a Ho Chi Minh beard-came to my room, wanting to know all about
> >Ernest Hemingway . . . Others came to find out about life in the United
> >States. They figured because my father had such high military rank that
> >I was of the royalty or governing circle . . . One of the men who came
> >to see me, whose picture I recognized later, was Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap,
> >the hero of Dienbienphu." U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973
> >article written by former POW John McCain
> >
> >December 1967 - Vietnamese and possibly Soviet doctors operate (early
> >December) on McCain's Leg. Later that month, six weeks after he was
> >shot down, McCain was taken from the hospital and delivered to Room No.
> >11 of "The Plantation" into the hands of two other U.S. POWs, Air
> >Force majors George "Bud" Day and Norris Overly. They helped further
> >nurse him along until he was eventually able to walk by himself. --
> >Faith of My Fathers by John McCain
> >
> >January 1968 - McCain, Day and Overly, were relocated (early January)
> >to "another end of the camp, a place we called 'the Corn Crib.'" A
> >group of "obviously senior" Communist Party members visited and talked
> >with McCain. --Faith of My Fathers by John McCain
> >
> >February 1968 - Overly was offered and he accepted early release. He
> >was released February 16. --Faith of My Fathers by John McCain
> >
> >Overly was released with David Matheny and John Black. "They were the
> >first three POW's to be released by the North Vietnamese." U.S. News
> >and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John
> >McCain
> >
> >March 1968 - Day is "relocated" to another cell.--Faith of My Fathers
> >by John McCain
> >
> >April 1968 - McCain was "moved into another building, the largest cell
> >block in the camp, 'the Warehouse.'" Day was moved to another prison
> >(the Zoo). McCain began solitary confinement.--Faith of My Fathers by
> >John McCain
> >
> >May 1968 - "In May of 1968, I [McCain] was interviewed by two North
> >Vietnamese generals at separate times." U.S. News and World Report, May
> >14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain
> >
> >July 1968 - McCain claims he was next introduced for the first time to
> >the "torture ropes." He said the torture went on for several days
> >before he broke and agreed to write and sign a confession that he was a
> >"black criminal." McCain said that he was moved to another building
> >away from the other POWs. --The Nightingale's Song (No returned POWs
> >can confirm McCain's claims of being tortured)
> >
> >McCain said (page 136) that he was so distraught because he had signed
> >the statement that he attempted suicide but was stopped when a guard
> >burst into the room. --The Nightingale's Song (No returned POWs can
> >confirm McCain's claims of "attempted suicide")
> >
> >June 1969 - "Reds Say PW Songbird Is Pilot Son of Admiral
> >. . . Hanoi has aired a broadcast in which the pilot son of United
> >States Commander in the Pacific, Adm. John McCain, purportedly admits
> >to having bombed civilian targets in North Vietnam and praises medical
> >treatment he has received since being taken prisoner." New York Daily
> >News, June 5, 1969
> >
> >"The English-Language broadcast beamed at South Vietnam was one of a
> >series using American prisoners. It was in response to a plea by
> >Defense Secretary Melvin S. Laird, May 19, that North Vietnam treat
> >prisoners according to the humanitarian standards set forth by the
> >Geneva Convention." The Washington Post - June 5, 1969
> >
> >January 1970- "There was pressure to see American antiwar delegations,
> >which seemed to increase as the time went on. But, there wasn't any
> >torture. In January 1970, I [McCain] was taken to a quiz with 'The
> >Cat.' He told me that he wanted me to see a foreign guest." U.S. News
> >and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John
> >McCain
> >
> >A declassified DOD document reports an interview between POW McCain and
> >Dr. Fernando Barral, a Spanish psychiatrist who was living in Cuba at
> >the time. The interview was published in the Havana Granma in January
> >1970.
> >
> >According to the DOD report, the meeting between Barral and McCain
> >(which was photographed by the Vietnamese) took place away from the
> >prison at the office of the Committee for Foreign Cultural Relations in
> >Hanoi. During the meeting, POW McCain sipped coffee and ate oranges and
> >cakes with his interrogator.
> >
> >While talking with Barral, McCain seriously violated the military Code
> >of Conduct by failing to evade answering questions "to the utmost" of
> >his ability when he, according to the DOD report, helped Barral by
> >answering questions in Spanish, a language McCain had learned in
> >school.
> >
> >March 15, 1973 - McCain was released from the Hanoi Hilton and
Bill Clarke
> goose necked, warped brained, aborted product of an ancient monkey gang
> rape, with shit for brains; and you damn sure aint a Vietnam veteran.
>
> P.S. Oh yes, Mr. Sampley, Sir, I forgot to call you an SOB!
>
> To: Smith, who critiques my writing style. That was not my usual
language,
> but it felt good to get it said in a property manner.
>
Not a bad effort considering you used only one "shit" and one "SOB" but you
still got a ways to go Charlie. Keep working on it. BTW, Smith left me in
charge of critiquing your writing style in his absence. He is my buddy you
know.
Bill Clarke
F Troop, 17th Cav
> sam...@my-deja.com wrote in message
Charles G. White
> BTW, Smith left me in charge of critiquing your writing
> style in his absence. He is my buddy you know.
So I understand, but have you delivered your shirt to Doctah Smith?
Doug Reese
>Damn, the "Gray Ghost" hasn't graced us with his presence in a long while.
>Why now?
>
>Bill Clarke
>F Troop, 17th Cav
Go over to the POW/MIA newsgroup. He's been there a few days. I believe
it's a McCain thing.
He just posted a very special comment regarding Joe a few minutes ago.
You gotta hand it to him. The man has no shame.
Doug
Carl Hatchell
"T" shirts?
Carl Hatchell
<sam...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:85ro68$u2p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Buck
this situation.
You are making yourself look like a fool.
Buck
Edward Combs wrote in message ...
JKauff2017
>
>
> Damn, the "Gray Ghost" hasn't graced
> us with his presence in a long while.
> Why now?
>
> Bill Clarke
> F Troop, 17th Cav
Do you mean the blonde ghost? You accused Sampley of this earlier and someone
else corrected you.
You're still confusing Ted Sampley with Ted Shackley.
Edward Combs
drawn no opinion from posters with agendas(or maybe you know Mr. Samplet
personally and can speak with first hand knowledge) otherwise YOUR FUCKING
OPINION IS NO BETTER THAN ANYONE'S!
.............................
Buck <Buck_W...@HotMail.Com> wrote in message
Edward Combs
Smith).
...................................
Carl Hatchell <Ha...@nospam.2xtreme.net> wrote in message
news:6Fqg4.385$be4....@news-west.eli.net...
> Well Ted, set the record straight. How much money did you make selling
> "T" shirts?
>
> Carl Hatchell
>
> <sam...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:85ro68$u2p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Carl Hatchell
Ted (you didn't confuse that with Ed, did you? Is that why you are here?)
said that he didn't make 2 million dollars or $300,000 dollars selling "T" shirts.
The question then is, how much did he make? 3 million, 1 million, nothing,
five dollars? Read it carefully. "How much money did you make selling "T" shirts?"
On the surface, it doesn't appear to be that difficult to understand.
Now I'll show you mine. I have not made any money selling "T" shirts
in my life.
As for the !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'s for Smith, I'm sure he appreciates and will treasure
them.
Carl Hatchell
Edward Combs <edc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:5Arg4.185$4R4....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> I'll show you mine if you show me your's!!!!!!!(the extra !!!!! are for
> Smith).
> ...................................
> Carl Hatchell <Ha...@nospam.2xtreme.net> wrote in message
> news:6Fqg4.385$be4....@news-west.eli.net...
> > Well Ted, set the record straight. How much money did you make selling
> > "T" shirts?
> >
> > Carl Hatchell
> >
> > <sam...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:85ro68$u2p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Edward Combs
with Ed) to publish his income on the net and I figured if you wanted Ted to
tell his income(from whatever source)then you and I should do the same. Mr.
Sampley was not the one to make a big deal out of selling "T" shirts(at the
wall, in the wall,by the wall) it was people that wants to make "THE WALL"
into some kind of religious shrine and cannot stand to believe that ...just
maybe there were some men that did not come home. Ted's "T" shirts remanded
them of things they would rather forget and it took away from all those
Crocodile tears they shed every year at the wall[it seem to me to be the
same people crying each year....maybe not]. Now was that difficult? All it
means is that there really are some ass-holes in the Vietnam Veterans
NG's(which most people knew anyway).news:86sg4.393$be4....@news-west.eli.net...
marcu...@webtv.net
there true colors by giving us accounts of crying babies, whinning
females, and demented old men. Not because we feel it necessary to use
violent language.
I for one would lke to exchange war stories, it puts me into a place
that is a lot warmer than I am in right now, I don't have to be drunk,
and I can take guff a lot easier, when I read it a couple of times.
FYI, I am still backing McCain, because as I see it, all our choices
have the ability to hurt our military programs, which one will do the
least amount of Damage is the one I will support.
>Group: alt.war.vietnam Date: Sun, Jan 16, 2000, 1:55am From:
abel...@postoffice.swbell.net (Marshall Paul)
But Ed's >remark has me wondering...would I be >violating the AUP if I
tell somebody what >I think? And how will I know what >anybody is
thinking, again, if they won't >tell me? Should I read the AUP, now, so
>that I am in conformance? Will >someone's prediction that the mere
>existence of the AUP now cause the >group to split (and all because I
am >bringing up my thoughts at this >moment?) And is there a parallel
>universe which began just a moment >ago, in which I deleted this
message, >and the group goes blissfully on as >before, but somewhere
else?
>Marshall
marriage...(can
>recognize irony)
>Edward Combs wrote:
> Too bad I have
>to go by the AUP now of I would tell you >what I REALLY think of you(of
course >you won't be going by the rules >so.................
your just lucky we don't pass a AUP banning hippy supporters.
Marcus
Nevada
Steven W. Smith
sure don't want to read it twice!
Smith
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Steven W. Smith
<Ha...@nospam.2xtreme.net> wrote:
> As for the !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'s for Smith, I'm sure he
> appreciates and will treasure them.
> Carl Hatchell
Let the record reflect that I've never sold a T-shirt in my life!!!!
Smith
P.S. but if it's as lucrative as your posting suggests, I'm willing to
give it a try.
Carl Hatchell
Edward Combs <edc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:xrsg4.399$4R4....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> It was not TOO difficult to understand...you wanted Ted(not to be confused
> with Ed) to publish his income on the net and I figured if you wanted Ted to
> tell his income(from whatever source)then you and I should do the same.
OK Ed, I didn't make any money trading on the grief of people trying to find
solace or pay respects at the Wall.
Did you?
Did Mr. Sampley? HE mentioned 2 million and $300,000 and said neither was true.
I asked what was true.
> Mr. Sampley was not the one to make a big deal out of selling "T" shirts(at the
> wall, in the wall,by the wall)
Of course he didn't. He was the perpetrator. Willie Sutton never complained
about the rising number of bank robberies either. What's your point?
> it was people that wants to make "THE WALL"
> into some kind of religious shrine and cannot stand to believe that ...just
> maybe there were some men that did not come home. Ted's "T" shirts remanded
> them of things they would rather forget and it took away from all those
> Crocodile tears they shed every year at the wall [it seem to me to be the
> same people crying each year....maybe not].
You make it sound as if people objecting to commercialization of the Wall
are a bunch of phonies, but then you say "maybe not", so, who knows.
> Now was that difficult?
Yes. Following your convoluted logic is always difficult.
> All it means is that there really are some ass-holes in the Vietnam Veterans
> NG's(which most people knew anyway).
> ...........................
That's all it means? I agree that it's true but I don't see how you drew that
conclusion from what you wrote. I'd be interested to see that line of logic.
Carl Hatchell
David Gorick
If it was really lucrative everyone would be selling them, however 2 million
dollars does get your attention. Come up with a good idea and I'll be your
west coast outlet. Didn't someone recently offer you the shirt off their
back? If that was a t-shirt then your already in business.
David
Steven W. Smith <swsmith...@delmar.edu.invalid> wrote in message
news:32bd4fa0...@usw-ex0101-004.remarq.com...
Al Zeller
Not everyone gave in, Doc:
While on a flight over North Vietnam, Capt. Sijan ejected from his
disabled aircraft and
successfully evaded capture for more than 6 weeks. During this time,
he was seriously
injured and suffered from shock and extreme weight loss due to lack
of food. After being
captured by North Vietnamese soldiers, Capt. Sijan was taken to a
holding point for
subsequent transfer to a prisoner of war camp. In his emaciated and
crippled condition, he
overpowered 1 of his guards and crawled into the jungle, only to be
recaptured after
several hours. He was then transferred to another prison camp where
he was kept in
solitary confinement and interrogated at length. During
interrogation, he was severely
tortured; however, he did not divulge any information to his
captors. Capt. Sijan lapsed
into delirium and was placed in the care of another prisoner. During
his intermittent
periods of consciousness until his death, he never complained of his
physical condition
and, on several occasions, spoke of future escape attempts. Capt.
Sijan's extraordinary
heroism and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty at the
cost of his life are in
keeping with the highest traditions of the U.S. Air Force and
reflect great credit upon
himself and the U.S. Armed Forces.
Al
Bill Clarke
David Gorick <dgo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:5rxg4.4568$%Y3.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Steve,
>
> If it was really lucrative everyone would be selling them, however 2
million
> dollars does get your attention. Come up with a good idea and I'll be
your
> west coast outlet. Didn't someone recently offer you the shirt off their
> back? If that was a t-shirt then your already in business.
>
> David
>
>
said shirt. I felt that if he needed it he could come get it. There was
also some confusion on Mr. Smith's part when I asked if he required a work
shirt or a dress shirt. He said, "work shirt, whatinhell is that????".
Bill Clarke
F Troop, 17th Cav
> Steven W. Smith <swsmith...@delmar.edu.invalid> wrote in message
Bill Clarke
JKauff2017 <jkauf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000116165627...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
> > From: "Bill Clarke" cla...@livingston.net
> >
> >
>
> > Damn, the "Gray Ghost" hasn't graced
> > us with his presence in a long while.
> > Why now?
> >
> > Bill Clarke
> > F Troop, 17th Cav
>
someone
> else corrected you.
>
> You're still confusing Ted Sampley with Ted Shackley.
>
>
to remind me again. I wish my memory was as good as yours.
Bill Clarke
Steven W. Smith <swsmith...@delmar.edu.invalid> wrote in message
> If you aren't going to engage it, Lt., then snip the drivel. I damn
> sure don't want to read it twice!
>
> Smith
>
>
again are you.
Bill Clarke
> Bill Clarke wrote in
> > BTW, Smith left me in charge of critiquing your writing
> > style in his absence. He is my buddy you know.
>
>
>
David Gorick
He is a teacher after all, not a worker. You know what they say, "If you
can't do, teach. If you can't teach, go to a junior college".
David
Bill Clarke <cla...@livingston.net> wrote in message
news:s8653l...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> David Gorick <dgo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:5rxg4.4568$%Y3.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > Steve,
> >
> > If it was really lucrative everyone would be selling them, however 2
> million
> > dollars does get your attention. Come up with a good idea and I'll be
> your
> > west coast outlet. Didn't someone recently offer you the shirt off
their
> > back? If that was a t-shirt then your already in business.
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> Alas the offer of my shirt failed when Mr. Smith requested that I deliver
> said shirt. I felt that if he needed it he could come get it. There was
> also some confusion on Mr. Smith's part when I asked if he required a work
> shirt or a dress shirt. He said, "work shirt, whatinhell is that????".
>
> Bill Clarke
> F Troop, 17th Cav
>
> > Steven W. Smith <swsmith...@delmar.edu.invalid> wrote in message
Paul Edwards
"Al Zeller" <zel...@nscl.msu.edu> wrote in message
news:38830248...@nscl.msu.edu...
I didn't snip anything so maybe if someone reads my reply they will re read
your story about this brave Air Force Captain. I wasn't really meaning to
say that we didn't have some strong heroic POW's I was more or less rambling
on about the Code of Conduct.
Captain Sijan May you rest in peace.
Semper Fi
The Doc
Don Thompson
--
Don Thompson
Zoomie
ACA#3460
Any Time, Any Place
Pull the chocks, lets get this kite in the air.
"Paul Edwards" <pe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:72Jg4.730$ZA3.9...@feed.centuryinter.net...
Pathfinder
there were men who were gambling near the cross (Making money).
I know that when the, " Miracle of Fatima, " happened early on in this
past century, there were people there too, making money off of the
believers, by trying to sell them something when they are highly emotional
about the event.
Mr Sampley, I do not know you personally. I do know that your reputation
has preceded you. Not here on this NG, as I have only been here
approximately
two years. I heard about you from the various national new organizations
and finally
from the US Government, having to take you to court, to get you and your
kind, not
to sell your T-Shirts and other wares at, " The Vietnam Wall. "
Many people go there to grieve for their loved ones, lost in the Vietnam
War. Not to
buy a T-Shirt from you. I know the new agencies stated that you were making
a good
living at selling your wares.
That sir, is why I personally would never buy a T-Shirt from you or any of
your kind.
Charles Penley
Tom Dier
Thanks for posting this. Is there anywherre on the net where one could
find more about this man?
On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 06:51:37 -0500, Al Zeller <zel...@nscl.msu.edu>
wrote:
>
>
>Paul Edwards wrote:
>>
>> <sam...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:85rqr8$vrl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>> > After he was released in 1973, John McCain advocated for the U.S.
>> > government to prosecute enlisted POWs who made statements for the
>> > communists.
>>
>> I do know about this but the enlisted men always get screwed in a situation
>> like this. I say this not knowing how much collaboration they did or how
>> damaging it was to the other POW's. If it didn't go any farther than the
>> information McCain was supposed to have exchanged for medical care it should
>> be left alone. McCain can't have one set of rules just for himself. As I
>> said the Code of Conduct as it was written in the 1960;s was so tightly
>> drawn no one could have lived up to it. Well maybe a crazy Navy Admiral
>> named Stockdale.
>> Semper Fi
>> The Doc
>
Tom Dier 1/52 Americal Division 1970
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Al Zeller
Tom Dier wrote:
>
> Al,
>
> Thanks for posting this. Is there anywherre on the net where one could
> find more about this man?
>
Tom,
Of course, all I did was copy his MoH citation. If you look at Neil
Mishalov's page there is a whole lot more:
http://www.mishalov.com/Sijan.html
There's also a book about him, "Into the Mouth of the Cat", which is
available from Amazon. Not to start a flame war, but I'm usually less
than impressed by "flyboys", but I most respectfully salute his memory.
Al
Steven W. Smith
"David Gorick" <dgo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Bill,
> He is a teacher after all, not a worker. You know what they say,
> "If you
> can't do, teach. If you can't teach, go to a junior college".
> David
It's a bit of a cheap shot, but I'll take it anyway. Teachers work as
hard as anyone else does and our work is no less honorable than anyone
else's is.
As to "junior" colleges: I've taught at public universities. In a
university setting, one must produce research grants to justify one's
salary. I taught a maximum of three sections per semester. Frankly, I
suck as a researcher. I'm just no damn good at it!
But in the community college... tomorrow, I will have nearly 200
students bursting through the doors of my classroom. I'm good at what
I do, sir. I take pride in my work and I claim just as much honor as
any man who earns an honest living and supports his family through
honest labor.
Now, Mr. Gorick, would you mind kissing my ass?
Smith
Lou Redmond
"Pathfinder" <cepe...@intermediatn.net> wrote in message
news:38837...@news.intermediatn.net...
JOHN ADAMS JR
keep your mouth shut.i would stand tall with mccain any day.. ..i finaly
hooked up on web,an glad i did.......JADAM35@WEBTVj
Lou Redmond
"Steven W. Smith" <swsmith...@delmar.edu.invalid> wrote in message
<snipped> I take pride in my work and I claim just as much honor as
> any man who earns an honest living and supports his family through
> honest labor.
>
> Now, Mr. Gorick, would you mind kissing my ass?
>
> Smith
>
>
spelling, etc. I must say that this phrasing would appear to state that you
don't earn an honest living nor support your family through honest labor!
However now had you said that you took as much pride as any OTHER man ...,
then it would indicate that you did an honest day's work. (Just trying to
return the anal favor)<BSEG>
-Lou-
David Gorick
Steven W. Smith <swsmith...@delmar.edu.invalid> wrote in message
news:0d701ae0...@usw-ex0102-011.remarq.com...
David Gorick
Steven W. Smith <swsmith...@delmar.edu.invalid> wrote in message
news:0d701ae0...@usw-ex0102-011.remarq.com...
> "David Gorick" <dgo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Bill,
> > He is a teacher after all, not a worker. You know what they say,
> > "If you
> > can't do, teach. If you can't teach, go to a junior college".
> > David
>
> It's a bit of a cheap shot, but I'll take it anyway. Teachers work as
> hard as anyone else does and our work is no less honorable than anyone
> else's is.
>
> As to "junior" colleges: I've taught at public universities. In a
> university setting, one must produce research grants to justify one's
> salary. I taught a maximum of three sections per semester. Frankly, I
> suck as a researcher. I'm just no damn good at it!
>
> But in the community college... tomorrow, I will have nearly 200
> students bursting through the doors of my classroom. I'm good at what
> any man who earns an honest living and supports his family through
> honest labor.
>
>
> Smith
>
>
Joe Schlatter
John McCain's "Faith of My Fathers." He talks openly about his capture,
imprisonment, and the "swapping military information for medical treatment."
Rochester and Kiley, "Honor Bound: American Prisoners of War in Southeast
Asia, 1961-1973."
Susan Katz-Keating, "Prisoners of Hope;" pay special attention to the
chapter on Mr. Sampley.
The first two books are available from Amazon.com; the third one may be
difficult to find.
--
Regards,
Joe Schlatter
j...@schlatter.org
http://www.schlatter.org/
http://www.miafacts.org/
Amateur Radio Extra Class call sign W4HH
sam...@my-deja.com wrote in message <85qec1$24g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>John McCain Is No "Hero POW"
>
snipped for brevity
Steve Golding
>
> <sam...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:85qec1$24g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > John McCain Is No "Hero POW"
>
> Superman would have trouble following it. It's no shame to give the name
of
> your ship for example. Hell if their intelligence gathering agency was
not
> able to gather theses names it wasn't worth much. I have no problems with
> McCain on the things he did. I am not a McCain person but he was badly
> hurt. The only qualm that I have with McCain is that he has not contacted
> the person who saved his life by feeding him, keeping his wounds clean,
and
> cleaning the body excretions off him when he was so sick. He gives him
> credit for saving his life but he hasn't contacted him since the POW's
were
> released. Why? He came home outa turn. Maybe he couldn't take it any
more
> like McCain. He should be more forgiving.
> Semper Fi
> The Doc
>
>
McCain was shot down off the Oriksany and yet he gave military information
not just about the Oriksany but about his prior command, the Forrestal. Why?
He was shot down 26 Oct 67 and by 31 October he was giving interviews.
Kinda/sorta makes you wonder.
Steve
Steve Golding
"Marshall Paul" <abel...@postoffice.swbell.net> wrote in message
news:388182E3...@postoffice.swbell.net...
> Oh, I guess your name is Sampley, from the other posts, here, and I was
> just ignorant about you. OK. Well, I don't know you and you obviously
> have done a lot of homework and have an agenda. Fine. But have you
> spent one second as a POW in any war? Has that ever even been a remote
> possibility? This group must be a test bed for you to try out rhetoric
> with people whose natural sympathies will always be with those from our
> ranks, our comrades, who have been captured in war time. Well, it is a
> goddamn waste of time, because our responses will never and could never
> be like those (more like yourself) who have not run the risk, much less
> been in the circumstances of men like McCain. My response is to tell
> you to go fuck yourself.
>
> Marshall
Obviously you don't do your homework before tripping on your dick and
showing the world your ass.
He served in the Army for 10 years. He was decorated six times for his
service in Vietnam, seven of those years as a Green
Beret. He has been active in the POW movement since 1971. In October of
1988, Sampley led a group of activists into Laos, where they handed out
leaflets offering a reward for missing U.S. servicemen. Two of the group
were captured and held for 41 days..
Sampley was detained by Thai authorities for crossing back into Thailand
from Laos. He is publisher and editor of the U.S. Veteran Dispatch. He is
also chairman of the group that keeps a 24-hour vigil for POW's and MIAs in
front of the Lincoln Memorial. It was Sampley who first broke the story that
the Unknown Soldier for Vietnam was Air Force Lt. Michael Blassie. The
government, pressured by CBS television, finally used a DNA sample, and
acknowledged that the Unknown Soldier
was indeed Blassie. Recently, Sampley was named Veteran of the Year by
VietNow, a national veteran's organization. Sampley was awarded Columbia
School of Journalism's the Alfred I. duPont award for print journalism for
his part in the Blassie story.
Other POWs ran for office and no one challenged their credentials regarding
their service to their country, no matter how much they may have disagreed
with them politically. By contrast, there is a dedicated group of people,
who have legitimate
credentials, who are challenging McCain's war record.
Next time you decide you're gonna suck up to the group by listening to the
likes of DIA's Schlatter and DPMO's Destatte, try knowing a little
something about the person you want to tell go fuck their selves.
And I'd tell you to go fuck yourself, but you've already demonstrated you'd
have too good a time in such an attempt.
Steve
Charles G. White
> "Marshall Paul" wrote in message
<snipped>
> Obviously you don't do your homework before tripping on your dick and
> showing the world your ass.
It does not take much homework to see that Mr. Sampley has become an idiot
hypocritic T-Shirt salesman with a personal political agenda. Mr. Golding,
you have it wrong. It is YOU who is tripping on his dick and showing the
world his ass .
HOLLIS6475
>He was shot down 26 Oct 67 and by 31 October he was giving interviews.
>
>Kinda/sorta makes you wonder.
Steve,
wonder, NO, you may wonder, but you probably have no clue on how convincing
the NVA can be in getting you to talk.
YOUR BS, OK........no go away
Semper Fi
Hollis
Personally all this attacks on POWs is insulting.........bunch of F***in
Jodies!!
reply to Point...@AOL.COM (this address is closed for a while the spammer
have got it)
Lou Redmond
"Steve Golding" <ste...@nyct.net> wrote in message
news:78Ug4.1326$Ve7....@iad-read.news.verio.net...
>
> Kinda/sorta makes you wonder.
>
> Steve
>
veteran, "sir"? Do YOU know anything about anything YOU are talking about?
Granted what you say about Mr. Sampley, it doesn't say anything about YOU.
IF what you say about Mr. Sampley is true, then "son", I suggest that he MAY
be big enough to take care of himself. Personally, I don't see anything
that would give you the credentials to come here and trash anyone, so why
not simply go away like the good Gunny told you to do. Mr. Sampley has an
opinion and an agenda. He has obviously gone to great lengths to support
that through what could be self sacrifice. That in itself is commendable,
but in no way makes it any more credible. However, that is his claim to
fame. "Shadows" are generally relegated to the role of troll around here,
so crawl away and let Mr. Sampley advance his own opinions. Since,
according to your tirade earlier, he has the "credentials" to come here and
rant with the rest of us, thats fine, but what gives you the right to come
here and trash anyone. Having said that, FOAD creep,
Have a nice day,
-Lou-
Steve Golding
Craig Thompson <sdot...@olywa.net> wrote in message
news:sd6a8sshcavh1lkp3...@4ax.com...
> Still winning friends and support with your charm huh Steve?
>
> You left out the most important part: Ted was in the Herd.
>
> Craig
Yeah Craig, I have a nasty lil habit of replying to assholes who like to
ingratiate their sorry asses by attacking my friends.
Re the Herd, yeah I forgot about that. There'll probably be a next time
though and if I forget to mention it, please remind me.
Steve
Steve Golding
Lou Redmond <rfea...@prairieweb.com> wrote in message
news:862vo...@enews3.newsguy.com...
Gee, Lou, does this mean I'm off your Christmas list? How WILL I ever get to
sleep tonight?
Here's a newsflash for ya chief, if I don't agree with what is said here or
anywhere else, and I am so inclined, I'm gonna say something. And you know
what, if you hero's can tell one of my bud's to go fuck hisself then I guess
that means all bets are off and I'll flame the shit out of you; got that?
Now I've been reported to my IP, the friggin Inspector General of the NSA
and even been badmouthed b/c and guess what? I'm still coming around. So go
the fuck back wherever it is you came from and kick dirt in someone elses
face who won't pound it right back atcha.
When you chastise your boy for stepping into something he knows not thing
one about, then maybe I'll respect your space. Until then, to use your
eloquence, FOAD.
Steve
Steve Golding
Let's see. You're getting creamed in this AUP thing and then you second, or
here here'd, a jerk before even knowing whom you were seconding an attack on
and the best that you can come up with is hypocritic t-shirt salesman with a
personal political agenda?
Are you sure you are a member of the Bar? And is it Murphy's?
Dickhead, first of all if Ted is the t-shirt salesman that you apathetic
hero's claim he is he ain't a hypocritic t-shirt salesman, he's a friggin
phenomenal t-shirt salesman.
And wantonly leaving men behind is no personal politcal agenda,
shitferbrains, it is yet another stain on the nation that in between
scratchin your crotch and belchin', you claim to care about.
Guess you don't care that much after all, huh Clarence Darrow?
Steve
Steve Golding
HOLLIS6475 <holli...@aol.comnoants> wrote in message
news:20000118131645...@ng-cn1.aol.com...
> >From: "Steve Golding"
>
> >He was shot down 26 Oct 67 and by 31 October he was giving interviews.
> >
> >Kinda/sorta makes you wonder.
>
>
> wonder, NO, you may wonder, but you probably have no clue on how
convincing
> the NVA can be in getting you to talk.
>
> YOUR BS, OK........no go away
>
>
> Semper Fi
>
> Hollis
>
> Personally all this attacks on POWs is insulting.........bunch of F***in
> Jodies!!
>
I'm sorry Hollis, I meant to say it makes thinking, caring people wonder.
I didn't mean you.
Does Semper Fidelis really mean anything more than a tag line in awv?
Didn't think so.
Steve
Charles G. White
> Guess you don't care that much after all, huh Clarence Darrow?
Are we in some way expected to be impressed, applaud, or send you a free
T-Shirt?
Best Wishes!
Clarence
Frank Vaughan
"Steve Golding" <ste...@nyct.net> wrote:
>
> Gee, Lou, does this mean I'm off your Christmas list? How WILL I ever get to
> sleep tonight?
>
> Here's a newsflash for ya chief, if I don't agree with what is said here or
> anywhere else, and I am so inclined, I'm gonna say something.
I see you've gotten over your bashfulness.
> And you know
> what, if you hero's can tell one of my bud's to go fuck hisself then I guess
> that means all bets are off and I'll flame the shit out of you; got that?
>
> Now I've been reported to my IP,
not by me.
>the friggin Inspector General of the NSA
by me (actually it was Jimi, not you!)
> and even been badmouthed b/c
not to mention f/c (front channel)
> and guess what? I'm still coming around.
I'm glad <grin>
> So go
> the fuck back wherever it is you came from and kick dirt in someone elses
> face who won't pound it right back atcha.
>
> When you chastise your boy for stepping into something he knows not thing
> one about, then maybe I'll respect your space. Until then, to use your
> eloquence, FOAD.
>
> Steve
>
Frank (whose mailbox is STILL empty)!!!!!
Lou Redmond
Where I come from, asshole, is right here. I happen to be an Indian, so I
don't have any other place to go. As for the rest of the message, I see
that you don't have any form of credential to discuss anything except being
a wannabe badass, but from your tone, I'd say it was more in the line of
giving it out. You seem like such a nice paranoid (getting badmouthed to
your ISP, the NSA for chrissake, and having bad messages in your inbox!)
Poor Baby! I guess you're just the lastest in a very sad line of trolls, so
...FLUSH!
Buck
You got that? Punk!
I have two college classmates that spent a total of eight years in POW
status.
They didn't do that so you could suck their blood!
Buck
sam...@my-deja.com wrote in message <85ro68$u2p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>This message is to all of you so-called Vietnam vet "brothers"who seem
>to get-off on attacking people from behind your key boards.
>
>If you can show facts (not hear-say, not opinion) where what I have
>written about John McCain is wrong, then I will retract my statements
>and publicly apologize to Senator McCain.
>
>Also, I challenge any of you to show the hard evidence (paperwork is
>OK) where I made all those millions selling t-shirts. You can't do it
>because it is a lie. Prove it. Show your vet "brothers" that you know
>what you are talking about when you label another vet a "scam artist."
>
>You are getting that crap from Susan Katz Keating's book, "Prisoners of
>Hope." Sen. John McCain and the Pentagon's Col. Joe Schlatter were
>primary sources for her book, in which all leading POW activists were
>trashed.
>
>McCain and Schlatter fed Keating lies. She printed their lies in her
>book and now McCain and Schlatter refer to "Prisoners of Hope" when
>they want to trash POW activists without having to be responsible for
>their accusations.
>
>Show the facts! Not hear-say, not opinion, you know, use the same
>standards you require of the POW/MIA activists to prove live U.S. POWs
>were left behind in Vietnam.
>
>By the way, McCain can help you. At his request, senate staffers for
>the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, came to my hometown in
>1992 and seized all of my personal financial records and all of
>Homecoming II's (of which I was chairman at the time). To this day, I
>don't know what they took from my accountant. All I know is that they
>scared the hell out of him and he gave them what they wanted.
>
>Just think fellow vets, I was put through all of that because I dare to
>challenge the U.S. government's LIE that NO Vietnam veterans were left
>behind alive after the Vietnam War.
>
>The Select Committee declared in its 1993 report that I made
>$300,000.00 over three years selling t-shirts. Keating says I made two
>million dollars during the same three years. Both are absolute lies
>made up to discredit me personally.
>
>Judging from the intenseness of your attacks, their lies worked on some
>of you.
>
>As for what I have written about John McCain, most of information came
>directly from his quotes. Read carefully before you attack.
>
>By the way, my seven-year-old son, Owen Lane Sampley, is doing fine. He
>has started asking why his granddaddy, SFC Robert D. Owen, did not come
>home from Laos. I will give Owen Lane your regards.
>
>Ted Sampley
>U.S. Army 1963-1973
>Vietnam Vet -- 173rd Airborne 1965-1966
>5th Special Forces Group 1969-1970
>
>In article <ay3g4.5553$ro4.4...@news.flash.net>,
> "Buck" <Buck_W...@HotMail.Com> wrote:
>> Hidden behind any infants to avoid arrest lately, Teddy?
>>
>> How's your Tee Shirt scam going?
>>
>> Would be awful to actually have to get a job, wouldn't it?
>>
>> You aren't fit to lick John McCain's boots.
>>
>> (And, NO, I'm supporting GW for the presidency. But I'll stand up for
>> McCain's character in any forum.)
>>
>> Any body who wants the truth on this lying prick Sampley, check
>> WWW.MIAFACTS.ORG . That's Joe Schlatter's page. (Colonel Schlatter is
>a
>> little burned out lately, BUT I'M NOT.)
>>
>> Buck
>>
>> sam...@my-deja.com wrote in message <85qec1$24g$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>> >John McCain Is No "Hero POW"
>> >
>> >He seriously violated the Military Code of Conduct by trading
>"military
>> >information" and making public statements that appeared favorable to
>> >the communist war effort in exchange for "special treatment."
>> >
>> >After his release in 1973, McCain continued to helping the Vietnamese
>> >communists.
>> >
>> >Consisting of six articles in simple language, the United States
>> >Military Code of Conduct orders American military personnel to resist
>> >capture at all cost and if captured; to attempt to escape, to give
>the
>> >enemy no information other than name, rank, serial number and date of
>> >birth, to take charge if senior, to obey orders of the seniors, to
>> >accept no favors from the enemy and to make no written or oral
>> >statements disloyal to the United States.
>> >
>> >In the original writing, the Code was declared the definitive code
>> >specifying the responsibilities of American military personnel while
>in
>> >combat or captivity.
>> >
>> >The Code holds U.S. prisoners of war responsible to protect--at
>> >whatever cost--the cause for which the United States stands by
>> >continuing to carry on some form of resistance with the enemy. The
>> >establishment of the Code of Conduct was the result of what was
>> >considered in 1955 an embarrassing high number of U.S. servicemen
>held
>> >prisoners during the Korean War who apparently did little to resist
>> >collaborating with the enemy.
>> >
>> >John McCain's Time Line
>> >
>> >October 1967 – During his 23rd mission over Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967,
>> >Lt. Commander John McCain was shot down by a surface-to-air missile.
>> >
>> >After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by
>his
>> >captors who wanted military information from him, McCain called for
>an
>> >officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K.,
>> >I'll give you military information if you will take me to the
>> >hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written
>by
>> >former POW John McCain
>> >
>> >McCain was taken to Gai Lam military hospital. (U.S. government
>> >documents)
>> >
>> >"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to
>> >terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate.
>> >Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and
>> >confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194,
>Faith
>> >of My Fathers by John McCain
>> >
>> >November 1967 - Nov. 9, 1967 (U.S. government documents) Hanoi press
>> >began quoting him giving specific military information.
>> >
>> >One report dated read, "To a question of the correspondent, McCain
>> >answered: ‘My assignment to the Oriskany, I told myself, was due to
>> >serious losses in pilots, which were sustained by this aircraft
>carrier
>> >(due to its raids on the North Vietnam territory - VNA) and which
>> >necessitated replacements. From 10 to 12 pilots were transferred like
>> >me from the Forrestal to the Oriskany. Before I was shot down, we had
>> >made several sorties. Altogether, I made about 23 flights over North
>> >Vietnam.'"
>> >
>> >In that report, McCain was quoted describing the number of aircraft
>in
>> >his flight, information about rescue ships, and the order of which
>his
>> >attack was supposed to take place.
>> >
>> >Through the Freedom of Information Act, the U.S. Veteran Dispatch
>> >acquired a declassified Department of Defense (DOD) transcript of an
>> >interview prominent French television reporter Francois Chalais had
>> >with McCain.
>> >
>> >Chalais told of his private interview with POW McCain in a series
>> >titled Life in Hanoi, which was aired in Europe. In the series,
>Chalais
>> >said his meeting with McCain was "a meeting which will leave its mark
>> >on my life."
>> >
>> >"My meeting with John Sidney McCain was certainly one of those
>meetings
>> >which will affect me most profoundly for the rest of my life. I had
>> >asked the North Vietnamese authorities to allow me to personally
>> >interrogate an American prisoner. They authorized me to do so. When
>> >night fell, they took me---without any precautions or mystery--to a
>> >hospital near the Gia Lam airport reserved for the military. (passage
>> >omitted) The officer who receives me begins: I ask you not to ask any
>> >questions of political nature. If this man replies in a way
>unfavorable
>> >to us, they will not hesitate to speak of ‘brainwashing' and conclude
>> >that we threatened him.
>> >
>> >"‘This John Sidney McCain is not an ordinary prisoner. His father is
>> >none other than Admiral Edmond John McCain, commander in chief of
>U.S.
>> >naval forces in Europe. (passage omitted)'"
>> >
>> >". . . Many visitors came to talk to me [John McCain]. Not all of it
>> >was for interrogation. Once a famous North Vietnamese writer–an old
>man
>> >with a Ho Chi Minh beard–came to my room, wanting to know all about
>> >Ernest Hemingway . . . Others came to find out about life in the
>United
>> >States. They figured because my father had such high military rank
>that
>> >I was of the royalty or governing circle . . . One of the men who
>came
>> >to see me, whose picture I recognized later, was Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap,
>> >the hero of Dienbienphu." U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973
>> >article written by former POW John McCain
>> >
>> >December 1967 – Vietnamese and possibly Soviet doctors operate
>(early
>> >December) on McCain's Leg. Later that month, six weeks after he was
>> >shot down, McCain was taken from the hospital and delivered to Room
>No.
>> >11 of "The Plantation" into the hands of two other U.S. POWs, Air
>> >Force majors George "Bud" Day and Norris Overly. They helped further
>> >nurse him along until he was eventually able to walk by himself. --
>> >Faith of My Fathers by John McCain
>> >
>> >January 1968 – McCain, Day and Overly, were relocated (early January)
>> >to "another end of the camp, a place we called ‘the Corn Crib.'" A
>> >group of "obviously senior" Communist Party members visited and
>talked
>> >with McCain. --Faith of My Fathers by John McCain
>> >
>> >February 1968 – Overly was offered and he accepted early release. He
>> >was released February 16. --Faith of My Fathers by John McCain
>> >
>> >Overly was released with David Matheny and John Black. "They were the
>> >first three POW's to be released by the North Vietnamese." U.S. News
>> >and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John
>> >McCain
>> >
>> >March 1968 – Day is "relocated" to another cell.--Faith of My Fathers
>> >by John McCain
>> >
>> >April 1968 – McCain was "moved into another building, the largest
>cell
>> >block in the camp, ‘the Warehouse.'" Day was moved to another prison
>> >(the Zoo). McCain began solitary confinement.--Faith of My Fathers by
>> >John McCain
>> >
>> >May 1968 – "In May of 1968, I [McCain] was interviewed by two North
>> >Vietnamese generals at separate times." U.S. News and World Report,
>May
>> >14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain
>> >
>> >July 1968 - McCain claims he was next introduced for the first time
>to
>> >the "torture ropes." He said the torture went on for several days
>> >before he broke and agreed to write and sign a confession that he
>was a
>> >"black criminal." McCain said that he was moved to another building
>> >away from the other POWs. --The Nightingale's Song (No returned POWs
>> >can confirm McCain's claims of being tortured)
>> >
>> >McCain said (page 136) that he was so distraught because he had
>signed
>> >the statement that he attempted suicide but was stopped when a guard
>> >burst into the room. --The Nightingale's Song (No returned POWs can
>> >confirm McCain's claims of "attempted suicide")
>> >
>> >June 1969 – "Reds Say PW Songbird Is Pilot Son of Admiral
>> >. . . Hanoi has aired a broadcast in which the pilot son of United
>> >States Commander in the Pacific, Adm. John McCain, purportedly admits
>> >to having bombed civilian targets in North Vietnam and praises
>medical
>> >treatment he has received since being taken prisoner." New York Daily
>> >News, June 5, 1969
>> >
>> >"The English-Language broadcast beamed at South Vietnam was one of a
>> >series using American prisoners. It was in response to a plea by
>> >Defense Secretary Melvin S. Laird, May 19, that North Vietnam treat
>> >prisoners according to the humanitarian standards set forth by the
>> >Geneva Convention." The Washington Post - June 5, 1969
>> >
>> >January 1970– "There was pressure to see American antiwar
>delegations,
>> >which seemed to increase as the time went on. But, there wasn't any
>> >torture. In January 1970, I [McCain] was taken to a quiz with ‘The
>> >Cat.' He told me that he wanted me to see a foreign guest." U.S. News
>> >and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John
>> >McCain
>> >
>> >A declassified DOD document reports an interview between POW McCain
>and
>> >Dr. Fernando Barral, a Spanish psychiatrist who was living in Cuba at
>> >the time. The interview was published in the Havana Granma in January
>> >1970.
>> >
>> >According to the DOD report, the meeting between Barral and McCain
>> >(which was photographed by the Vietnamese) took place away from the
>> >prison at the office of the Committee for Foreign Cultural Relations
>in
>> >Hanoi. During the meeting, POW McCain sipped coffee and ate oranges
>and
>> >cakes with his interrogator.
>> >
>> >While talking with Barral, McCain seriously violated the military
>Code
>> >of Conduct by failing to evade answering questions "to the utmost" of
>> >his ability when he, according to the DOD report, helped Barral by
>> >answering questions in Spanish, a language McCain had learned in
>> >school.
>> >
>> >March 15, 1973 – McCain was released from the Hanoi Hilton and
>> >returned to the United States.
>> >
>> >The Late Fall, 1974 - McCain returned to Vietnam with a delegation of
>> >officials as guests of the South Vietnamese government to celebrate
>the
>> >Republic of Vietnam's National Day. South Vietnam's president, Nguyen
>> >Van Thieu, had invited representatives of major U.S. veterans
>> >organizations and several POW's including McCain to honor the
>sacrifice
>> >of U.S. veterans "for the South Vietnamese cause."
>> >
>> >At a reception, the host, one of President Thieu's closest aides,
>told
>> >the visiting U.S. veterans that he and the president would do
>anything
>> >they could to make sure members of the delegation could meet anyone
>> >they wanted or go anywhere they wanted to go.
>> >
>> >McCain, still a United States Navy officer stuck up his hand and
>said
>> >he wanted to visit Con Son Island. The request stunned the host and
>the
>> >rest of the delegation. Con Son, located fifty miles off the southern
>> >coast was the "site of South Vietnam's toughest prison, where the
>most
>> >dangerous suspected communist and other prisoners were kept."
>> >
>> >Four years before, in 1970, American anti-war activist Don Luce, had
>> >led a U.S. congressional delegation to the prison island to publicize
>> >South Vietnam's holding of prisoners in cells that became infamous as
>> >South Vietnam's prisoner "tiger cages."
>> >
>> >As a result of the Luce delegation trip to Con Son Island, the
>> >communist Vietnamese had gained an international propaganda bonanza
>> >against the U.S. war effort in Vietnam.
>> >
>> >McCain's hosts were extremely uncomfortable with McCain's request,
>but
>> >he kept pressing. A visit for McCain to Con Son was arranged for the
>> >last day before the groups departure.
>> >
>> >McCain visited the Con Son prison and interrogated camp officials
>about
>> >the conditions in the prison.
>> >Some where between Con Son and the mainland McCain decided not to
>make
>> >an issue of the conditions in the prison. He did not speak on the
>> >record for reporters waiting to hear what he had to say.
>> >
>> >June 1, 1988- New York Times- "When John McCain arrived in here [in
>> >Washington] as a freshman Republican Congressman in 1983, one of the
>> >issues very much on his mind was how the United States should deal
>with
>> >Vietnam . . . He was, he said, dismayed by the Reagan
>Administration's
>> >flat refusal to afford any kind of diplomatic recognition to Hanoi,
>> >something he thought could help clear up a number of issues,
>including
>> >the fate of those servicemen still missing in action . . . Mr.
>McCain,
>> >now the junior Senator from Arizona, is leading a legislative effort
>to
>> >force the Administration to open a lower-level American post in
>> >Vietnam, which could be preliminary to more formal relations."
>> >
>> >July 11, 1995 - Sen. Jonh McCain, R-Ariz., and Sen. John Kerry, D-
>> >Mass., gave President Bill Clinton the valuable political cover he
>> >needed to remove the U.S. imposed trade embargo against communist
>> >Vietnam. All major U.S. veterans organizations, the two POW/MIA
>family
>> >groups, and the majority of Vietnamese Americans in this country
>> >opposed Clinton's lifting of the embargo and the later normalizing of
>> >diplomatic relations.
>> >
>> >March 25, 1999, The Phoenix New Times: Ted Guy and Gordon "Swede"
>> >Larson, two former POWs, who were McCain's senior ranking officers
>> >(SRO's), at the time McCain says he was tortured in solitary
>> >confinement, told the New Times that while they could not guarantee
>> >that McCain was not physically harmed, they doubted it.
>> >"Between the two of us, it's our belief, and to the best of our
>> >knowledge, that no prisoner was beaten or harmed physically in that
>> >camp [known as "The Plantation"]," Larson says. ". . . My only
>> >contention with the McCain deal is that while he was at The
>Plantation,
>> >to the best of my knowledge and Ted's knowledge, he was not
>physically
>> >abused in any way. No one was in that camp. It was the camp that
>people
>> >were released from."
>> >U.S. Veteran Dispatch: http://www.usvetdsp.com/main.shtml
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>> >Before you buy.
>>
>>
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
JKauff2017
> whit...@amaonline.com
From the alt.war.vietnam "Rules Of Engagement" creator.
Jimi
JKauff2017
> Frank_...@email.com
>
> "Steve Golding" <ste...@nyct.net>
> wrote:
>
> Now I've been reported to my IP,
>
>
> the friggin Inspector General of the NSA
>
>> you!)
Steve is correct. John Tegtmeier reported both Steve and me to the NSA in
January 1998.
From Tegtmeier's post, dated 98-01-20, posted to: All readers of AWV, is this
excerpt:
Ms. Kauffman and Mr. Golding have until midnight, EST tomorrow night to do one
of the following:
1. [Snipped]
2. [Snipped]
A copy of their charges, and all references to NSA involvement will be sent to
the Inspector General of the NSA.
Jimi Kauffman
JKauff2017
> rfea...@prairieweb.com
>
> Where I come from, asshole, is right
> here. I happen to be an Indian, so I
> don't have any other place to go.
What's your point?
You weren't here when Steve or I first got here. Or for a few years afterward.
For the record...Ted Sampley is also Native American. But unlike you he has
other places to go.
> As for the rest of the message, I see
> that you don't have any form of credential
> to discuss anything except being
> a wannabe badass...
How would you possibly know Steve's credentials?
And since you've brought it up...what are your credentials?
Oh nevermind. Doesn't matter.
> but from your tone, I'd say it was
> more in the line of giving it out.
Seems that's your SOP.
> You seem like such a nice paranoid
> (getting badmouthed to your ISP, the
> NSA for chrissake, and having bad
> messages in your inbox!)
Steve forgot to also mention being reported to the FBI.
Haven't you ever heard Einstein's quote:
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds?
Has it always been your habit to draw your conclusions after hearing only one
side of the argument?
> Poor Baby! I guess you're just the
> lastest in a very sad line of trolls, so
> ...FLUSH!
Powerful.
Speaking of trolls, look who's calling the kettle black.
For the record, it would help readers on this newsgroup if you'd include the
other side of the conversation when you're responding to posts.
Jimi Kauffman
JKauff2017
> sdot...@olywa.net
>
> A simple typo. John, a Knick fan, was
> referring to the NBA.
Ahhhh, now I get it.
Wonder if Mark Smith really meant the NBA, rather than NSA, two years ago when
all this first began?
Maybe so, huh?
Jimi
NoSpam...@webtv.net
have a tendency to believe anything that McCain say as gospel.
All that you have written, have been publicly documented, for the
world to see. Those that only try to hang on to the coattails of
traitor's and liar's, and in return, obviously expect some sort of
repayment, for their undying loyalty to such, deserve what they will get
in the end, more empty lies!
I have yet to read those that try to discredit you, deny the facts
that what you write, is open to those that care to learn the truth of
McCain. They cannot! Perhaps if they are vulgar enough, and show their
true lack of literary skills, they may make others here forget to search
enough out what is known to anyone that has followed this issue to any
degree
Ted, it is the same garbage. They assume that if they scream, stomp
their feet, and basically throw a vulgar temper-tantrum, that you will
go away.
You will note, that it is always the same old snakes that crawl out
from their holes, that scream the most. Interesting. Always the same
ones! They don't have a clue of how stupid they truly appear by using
their vulgarity in an illiterate attempt to state their point, er.. or
lack of it!
Ted, you just keep on writing, young man. They cannot deny what came
out of the horse's mouth. I condemn McCain because of what he has done
since his return to the United States.
He has done everything he could possibly do, to keep those left behind
from returning. If they did, perhaps they would tell more than McCain
could ever explain away.
Ted, don't listen to the vulgar snakes. There are many that know the
truth!
NoSpam...@webtv.net
Thank you for pointing that out, regarding a real hero such as Captain
Sijan.
Add also, Rocky Versace and James "Nick" Rowe. True heroes of this
nation!!
May They Rest In Peace.
Lou Redmond
likes of such a miserable creature such as I. However, you might have
missed a point or two in your so well reasoned tirade. I was merely
reponding to several questions put forth by that other brilliant poster, Mr.
Golding. However, I see that both you and Mr. Golding are not interested in
responses to questions. As Mr. Smith tried to ask the other day, what is
the point of your postings? Is it to vilify yet another veteran, you do
seem to be very good at that, and the few posts I have seen from Mr.
Golding, he also has that dubious distinction. I gather from what you both
have said in the past that neither of you has had the pleasure of being a
POW. Until you do, may I suggest that you not be so harsh on someone that
was. Also I guess that since I have only been here about a year, both you
and Mr. Golding have more of a right to post on this NG than I do. What,
pray tell, gives you that right? From the posts that I have seen of yours
over the admittedly short time I have been here, I would have to classify
you as a Liberal Bigot. Please allow me to define that term for you as I
know it. A liberal bigot is someone that has a specific agenda to provide
massive information to humanity, mainly because those of us not in on the
real knowledge, and are too ignorant to actually survive on our own without
your very specific and wonderful knowledge. If we happen to be so
impertinent as to disagree with your very specific agenda, then of course we
are somehow lacking in humanity. Sorry, missy, but I have had my fill of
people like you for over 30 years. I am not interested in your myopic
agendas, nor am I interested in any of your tirades against me. For me to
be concerned with anything either you or Mr. Golding has to say, I would
have to have some form of respect for you, which I don't. As for Mr.
Sampley, all I know about him is what I have read here and on Deja. He
appears to be a bona fide RVN veteran, and for that I do respect him and his
viewpoint, please hear me when I say his viewpoint, not yours or Mr.
Golding's. As far as I am concerned, both of you may ESAD,
Edward Combs
find a post by him saying yes or no(there may be one out there).
..........................
JKauff2017 <jkauf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000119000712...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
Charles G. White
time to come up with an AUP. You are wrong as to my voting Ed. I voted YES
along with the majority who voted. I respect those who voted NO and see
good reasons for a no vote also. In particular I have great respect for
Bill Clarke, Tom Dier, and others who voted NO. I don't seem to have
lingering vendetta coming from them. Ed, in previous posts you seem to
really be unable to get over the fact that a AUP was adopted and keep
throwing it up to me. As I see it, you will never be personally affected by
it (unless Fly Warner comes back -- and you oppose his ejection). I have
had no problem tolerating a lot of things including the recent appearance of
toilet mouth Steve Golding. Even he does not cross-post his crap 50 times a
day.
Edward Combs wrote
JKauff2017
> rfea...@prairieweb.com
>
> [Rambling Snipped]
Sarcasim aside, it's not surprising you dodged the question. I'll ask it
again, what does your being Native American have to do with being on this
newsgroup?
Furthermore, what you think of me is not my concern. It's rather presumptuous
of you to believe otherwise.
For a man of your caliber to have no respect for me, Mr. Redmond, speaks highly
of me.
Unable to see another for who they really are, you judge others based on what
your small circle of buddies tell you back channel. You then fall dutifully in
line with all the other sheeple.
You also feel that neither Steve nor I should 'be so harsh' on returned POWS
since neither of us were prisoners of war?
There would be no such thing as opinions if everyone had to first experience
whatever it is they choose to form an opinion about.
I have close friends who are former POWS. Men who spent up to 7 1/2 years in
communist captivity, some in the same camps as McCain.
Can you make the same claim? If not, where have you obtained the information
that has formed your belief of any POW?
Keep limiting yourself to the viewpoints of only one side of any argument
before forming your opinions and your mind will remain closed.
For you to assume that Ted Sampley is a 'bona fide RVN veteran' because of what
you've read on this n/g and Deja.com is most revealing. To form decisions on
any matter based solely on what you've read on this n/g and Deja.com is is
frightening.
'Mr. Sampley' has been a close personal friend for many years. No doubt it
would knock your socks off if you knew the truth of his achievements in the
past and present as opposed to the disinformation and lies which have made up
the vast majority of posts about him.
That should ring a bell for you. Most veterans here spend a great deal of time
discussing our corrupt government. Yet a couple of those corrupt USG officials
are counted among the ranks on this newsgroup and welcomed with open arms.
It matters only that these professional liars are veterans. So are all the
turncoats. Why not embrace them too?
What tribe did you come from, Mr. Redmond? I was raised with two tribes of
Native Americans but those I grew up with and knew well had open minds, never
displaying the judgemental attitude or arrogance you have demonstrated.
It might be of benefit for you to focus less on this newsgroup and spend more
time remembering Native American values and belief systems that are currently
in opposition to your behavior here.
Jimi Kauffman
JKauff2017
> edc...@earthlink.net
>
> I thought that was "AUP" creator.
> Anyway he did not vote(atleast I cannot
> find a post by him saying yes or no(there
> may be one out there).
>
>> Engagement" creator.
>>
>> Jimi
Is AUP any different than Rules of Engagement?
Just wondering.
Jimi
>..........................
> JKauff2017 <jkauf...@aol.com> wrote
> in message
> news:20000119000712.03577
> .00000329@ng-fi1.aol.com...
JKauff2017
> things including the recent appearance
> of toilet mouth Steve Golding.
At least Steve didn't set himself up as in-house dictator.
Warren Murray
spoken for by mark.
mtk
JKauff2017
> murr...@potsdam.edu
>
> I believe the dick tator job was all ready
> spoken for by mark
>.
> mtk
Oh.
Then is assistant in-house dick taken?
Or in-house despot?
Or oppressor?
If everything's already taken how about McNamara?
Seems only fitting to carry on the legacy.
Lou Redmond
understand - Mr. Golding told me to go back to where I came from - my
response was that I came from here - clear enough, twit. How do you know
anything of my caliber of man. You don't know a thing about me - nothing,
but then people such as you and Mr. Golding, the parasites of society, don't
need to know anything about anyone to trash people. You ride on the coat
tails of others and claim their sunburst. You are pathetic little shits
that wouldn't have an original thought if it slapped you up side the head.
For your limited information, twit, as an Indian (sorry I'm not as PC as you
are, but the term in and of itself is facetious) I prefer to make some
attempt to alleviate some of the pain and suffering on the reservations, not
blast off at imaginery conspiracies or propagate myths that selling T-shirts
is somehow helping alleviate the suffering any POW or their family. As far
as what tribe I am from, if you knew anything about me, Mssssss Kaufman, you
would have that answer, I am an open book to those that are open themselves.
As to my small circle of friends, this is apparently another of your vain
attempts to degrade anyone that doesn't agree with your tripe by some form
of specious inuendo. I really don't give a shit about how long you have
known anyone, nor who they are. That merely reiterates my perception of you
as a parasite that attempts to gain "fame" in someone else reflected light.
You know nothing of me, MSSSSSSS kaufman, yet you have made some rather
fantastic charges as to my character, my commitment to alleviating the
suffering of my people, whether or not I belong to my people, whether or not
I have the ability to think on my own. The last is the greatest problem for
small people such as yourself. You will always live in others reflected
honor, you have none of your own. You will always live in someone else's
intellect, you cannot think for yourself, and despise anyone that can. If
the people on this NG are so despicable, missy, why are you here - as Mr.
Smith asked you socalled mentor the other day "What is the point?" Just to
trash another veteran, missy? As for the time I spend here, missy, I was
tramatized by what happened to me as a 20 year old - I buried that for over
30 years because of parasites like you that spout party lines without any
care for the sensitivities of others - I come here to share the trama of 30
years with others that have been through the same, not to be insulted by the
slime of the conspiracist theories. As far as what I do in Indian Country,
msssssssss kaufman, I have not seen you volunteering any of your valuable
time when I go out to the schools and talk to kids, or take food and
clothing to the families or elders, or sit in a tribal council arguing for
Treaty Rights - where the Hell are you with your high minded crap. Come out
here to Indian Country and get off your self appointed dais and do some work
without receiving any form of recognition. Oh, yeah sorry , twit, I know
just more ramblings for you to snip - go away child - you personally have
not earned your stripes to talk at my level - which is far above you slime.
"JKauff2017" <jkauf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000119091506...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
Don Thompson
Or do you HAVE to stir the shit again?
--
Don Thompson
Zoomie
ACA#3460
Any Time, Any Place
Pull the chocks, lets get this kite in the air.
"JKauff2017" <jkauf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000119151917...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> > From: "Lou Redmond"
> > rfea...@prairieweb.com
>
> Your post reveals you for what you are.
>
> Or as Emerson wrote, "What you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what
you're
> saying."
HOLLIS6475
>I'll say it again, since you are apparently not bright enough to
>understand - Mr. Golding told me to go back to where I came from
Lou,
Don't think it could be said better......YOu are very right, they in the
shadows of other peoples Honor/glory..........trying to steal what little
glory/honor from another that they can .
Semper Fi
Hollis
reply to Point...@AOL.COM (this address is closed for a while the spammer
have got it)
JKauff2017
> rfea...@prairieweb.com
Your post reveals you for what you are.
Or as Emerson wrote, "What you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what you're
saying."
>I'll say it again, since you are apparently not bright enough to
Steven W. Smith
<rfea...@prairieweb.com> wrote:
Damn, Lou... just look at the mess you left on the floor. I'm really
getting tired of you taking the scalp and tossing the rest of it aside.
Now, get in here and clean this up!
> I'll say it again, since you are apparently not bright enough to
> understand
[...]
> For your limited information, twit, as an Indian (sorry I'm not as
> PC as you
> are, but the term in and of itself is facetious)
Damn good thing that Chris wasn't looking for a quick route to Turkey,
I say!
Smith
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Steve Golding
"Lou Redmond" <rfea...@prairieweb.com> wrote in message
news:863e6...@enews3.newsguy.com...
>
> "Steve Golding" <ste...@nyct.net> wrote in message
> news:tv9h4.1709$Ve7....@iad-read.news.verio.net...
>
> that you don't have any form of credential to discuss anything except
being
> giving it out. You seem like such a nice paranoid (getting badmouthed to
> your ISP, the NSA for chrissake, and having bad messages in your inbox!)
so
> ...FLUSH!
>
>
What does Indian have to do with any of this?
I love you guys who think that it is perfectly acceptable to cast
aspirations all over the place and then when you get it back you immediately
hit the wannabe badass bullshit. I give what you give. You wanna talk to me
like I'm some piece of shit, then hey you're gonna have flies circling all
over you. You give civility you'll get it back in spades.
As far as credentials, what credentials do you want that isn't known here
already? I saw in another of your postings that you claim that you've read
everything you could get your hands on re the POW/MIA issue and yet I find
that hard to believe because you have not weighed in on the issue one way or
the other. I am very versed in the POW/MIA issue and I speak my mind as
loudly or softly as necessary; I won't get steamrolled.
Paranoia is a frame of mind, and has nothing to do with the fact that I was
reported, as other postings have stated. It reminds me of a saying, "Just
because I am paranoid, doesn't mean that they aren't watching."
Finally, like I said in other postings, no one is holding a gun to your head
demanding that you read what I write, nor do you have to respond that I
write. I choose to be here at this time, it's that simple. You get what you
give. Period.
Steve
Steve Golding
"Don Thompson" <flas...@ix.netcom.comghost> wrote in message
news:8656ca$e0v$1...@nntp1.atl.mindspring.net...
> WAR of the freaks again. Didn't you POW/MIA freaks get enough last year?
> Or do you HAVE to stir the shit again?
>
> --
> Don Thompson
> Zoomie
> ACA#3460
> Any Time, Any Place
Get anough last year??? BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Thanks for the chuckles there, Zoomie.
Let me put it this way, it ain't us that says UH-OH when we see our names
appear.....
Steve
Steve Golding
"Charles G. White" <whit...@amaonline.com> wrote in message
news:Jdah4.351$Pe6....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> Steve Golding wrote in message
> <lengthy gobblygook snipped>
> > Guess you don't care that much after all, huh Clarence Darrow?
>
> Are we in some way expected to be impressed, applaud, or send you a free
> T-Shirt?
>
> Best Wishes!
>
> Clarence
>
>
Clarence, I wouldn't want you to be impressed with me detracting from the
feelings of greatness that you already have for yourself.
Back atcha,
Steve
John Thompson
< snip attributes = "peurile, yah you are but what am I?, childish" >
> Back atcha,
Here bridge dweller, here boy. Some nice fissssshhhh!
johnt
--
"And I, I just took a ride ... on my silver machine, and I'm feelin'
mean."
-Hawkwind
Nigel N. Brooks
indicate that such a thing happened? Not the unverified statements of a
traitor (Garwood) - who hid behind the 5th amendment and refused to be
debriefed by trained investigators. You Garwood apologists fail to realize
that if Garwood truly had any valid information whatsoever - it was his
duty to debrief. The fact that he was facing criminal prosecution for his
traitorous actions is immaterial - he could very easily have received use
immunity in order to debrief. But you know how it is with people who
actually are guilty of what they are charged with. So offer some proof
here -not the confused rantings of other amateur investigators and
conspiracy theorists who join the fray like a pack of rabid dogs.
I put it to you Sir, that amateur investigators and conspiracy theorists
such as yourself have no shame. You take the 1st amendment freedoms which
were secured for you by generations of American fighting men, and fabricate
your insidious tales of Government malfeasance with absolutely no proof
whatsoever.
You should be ashamed - but of course you are not because your crusade is
righteous isn't it?
Ha
Nigel Brooks
"Steve Golding" <ste...@nyct.net> wrote in message
news:op9h4.1707$Ve7....@iad-read.news.verio.net...
> And wantonly leaving men behind is no personal politcal agenda,
> shitferbrains, it is yet another stain on the nation that in between
> scratchin your crotch and belchin', you claim to care about.
>
> Guess you don't care that much after all, huh Clarence Darrow?
>
> Steve
>
>
Steve Golding
actually getting along.
And if your mailbox is still empty at the end of business tomorrow, you
e-mail me.
Steve
"Frank Vaughan" <Frank_...@email.com> wrote in message
news:0DSFONWs8kjr4y...@4ax.com...
> In message <tv9h4.1709$Ve7....@iad-read.news.verio.net>,
> "Steve Golding" <ste...@nyct.net> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Gee, Lou, does this mean I'm off your Christmas list? How WILL I ever
get to
> > sleep tonight?
> >
> > Here's a newsflash for ya chief, if I don't agree with what is said here
or
> > anywhere else, and I am so inclined, I'm gonna say something.
>
> I see you've gotten over your bashfulness.
>
> > And you know
> > what, if you hero's can tell one of my bud's to go fuck hisself then I
guess
> > that means all bets are off and I'll flame the shit out of you; got
that?
> >
> > Now I've been reported to my IP,
>
> not by me.
>
> >the friggin Inspector General of the NSA
>
> by me (actually it was Jimi, not you!)
>
> > and even been badmouthed b/c
>
> not to mention f/c (front channel)
>
> > and guess what? I'm still coming around.
>
> I'm glad <grin>
>
> > So go
> > the fuck back wherever it is you came from and kick dirt in someone
elses
> > face who won't pound it right back atcha.
> >
> > When you chastise your boy for stepping into something he knows not
thing
> > one about, then maybe I'll respect your space. Until then, to use your
> > eloquence, FOAD.
> >
> > Steve
> >
>
> Frank (whose mailbox is STILL empty)!!!!!
>
>
>
Steve Golding
> Chandler Knowles should be given credit for taking a significant amount of
> time to come up with an AUP. You are wrong as to my voting Ed. I voted
YES
> along with the majority who voted. I respect those who voted NO and see
> good reasons for a no vote also. In particular I have great respect for
> Bill Clarke, Tom Dier, and others who voted NO. I don't seem to have
> lingering vendetta coming from them. Ed, in previous posts you seem to
> really be unable to get over the fact that a AUP was adopted and keep
> throwing it up to me. As I see it, you will never be personally affected
by
> had no problem tolerating a lot of things including the recent appearance
of
a
> day.
>
My, my. voted with the 'majority'. You're a majority kind of guy, ain'tcha
counselor?
I too have respect for Tom Dier and grudging respect for Bill Clarke; that
comes from communicating with them and seeing their postings here over the
past few years.
I ain't a newbie and I don't assume that because a name might not be
recognized right away that someone deserves to be maligned, just as what you
cheered on in our introduction to each other.
Nor do I believe everything that comes out from DoD, DIA or other government
agencies. Obviously, you can't say the same.
Sorry if you can't handle my trash mouth. Pity, I didn't notice that you had
made the same observation of Paul when he had initiated this with his GFY
message to Ted. Perhaps if you had made that observation instead of cheering
him on, you wouldn't have gotten noticed by me and would have been allowed
to dissipate back from whence you came: mediocrity.
Steve
Steve Golding
>
> "Craig Thompson" <sdot...@olywa.net> wrote in message
> news:qsma8s0k9jdk5bh68...@4ax.com...
> > Well Steve you know what I think of you and your non-veteran status
> > trashing of veterans. No sense in rehashing old stuff from years
> > back.
> >
> > Stay on that high-chloresterol feces-consuming diet of yours if you'd
> > like. Commonly known as the ESAD, I believe.
> >
> > Take care c'heer.
>
> Non-Vet trashing Veterans, that's really what it's about. It ain't whether
> the creep deserved it or whether he didn't. You, and several others, saw a
> non-vet going after a vet who had trashed another vet that at least you
> apogized to.
>
> Well Craig, you know how I feel too, so we don't need to mince more words
> here with each other. Thanks for being concerned about my diet. I'd return
> the favor but since I don't chare
make that share
a concern over your diet, I won't.
>
> Steve
>
>
Steve Golding
"Craig Thompson" <sdot...@olywa.net> wrote in message
news:qsma8s0k9jdk5bh68...@4ax.com...
> Well Steve you know what I think of you and your non-veteran status
> trashing of veterans. No sense in rehashing old stuff from years
> back.
>
> Stay on that high-chloresterol feces-consuming diet of yours if you'd
> like. Commonly known as the ESAD, I believe.
>
> Take care c'heer.
Non-Vet trashing Veterans, that's really what it's about. It ain't whether
the creep deserved it or whether he didn't. You, and several others, saw a
non-vet going after a vet who had trashed another vet that at least you
apogized to.
Well Craig, you know how I feel too, so we don't need to mince more words
here with each other. Thanks for being concerned about my diet. I'd return
the favor but since I don't chare a concern over your diet, I won't.
Steve
Steve Golding
"Nigel N. Brooks" <nbroo...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:#4kIYqoY$GA.290@cpmsnbbsa02...
> Do you have one (just one) verifiable piece of evidence which would
> indicate that such a thing happened? Not the unverified statements of a
> traitor (Garwood) - who hid behind the 5th amendment and refused to be
> debriefed by trained investigators. You Garwood apologists fail to
realize
> that if Garwood truly had any valid information whatsoever - it was his
> duty to debrief. The fact that he was facing criminal prosecution for his
> traitorous actions is immaterial - he could very easily have received use
> immunity in order to debrief. But you know how it is with people who
> actually are guilty of what they are charged with. So offer some proof
> here -not the confused rantings of other amateur investigators and
> conspiracy theorists who join the fray like a pack of rabid dogs.
Nigel, first you've never heard me apologize for Garwood. I merely point out
that no matter what your position is on Garwood, the fact is that the
Vietnamese knew he was either a POW or a collaborator and yet they responded
that they had no knowlege of GARWOOD when asked by Henry Kissinger. Not
about American's or Prisoners of War, of GARWOOD.
If you can point out where I have apologized for Garwood, then please do so.
Do I have one piece of verifiable evidence? You're kidding me, right? OK,
going on the presumption that you are not kidding, I give you one verifable
piece of evidence then you publicly state that you support OUR position,
deal? Come'on, go for it. You asked, let's see you ante up.
<rest of the mom, apple pie and my country right or wrong shit snipped>
Steve
pmartin
for it because of Mark and Colman, they have NO RIGHT
to steal webs and post them, and I forgot more than what
Mark knows. We all have problems with VA , but to post
a million times, your mother would kill ya.
Steve Golding <ste...@nyct.net> wrote in article
<BXph4.2104$Ve7....@iad-read.news.verio.net>...
Charles G. White
Please take notice the among this group you would not measure up to a pimple
on Lou's butt.
P.S. You may also say it to me "My post reveal me for what I am."
Sorry Lou, but I had to say it. <G>
JKauff2017 wrote in message
> > From: "Lou Redmond"
Pathfinder
your email below that you state > [Rambling Snipped] then at the end
of your your lengthy email you actually posted Lou's entire message.
That does not appear rational to me. What say you? If you can not be
rational in your thoughts why should anyone here listen?
Charles Penley
Pathfinder
friends. I have been able to read for myself many of your past postings
with many of the people who come to this newsgroup. I did not post
very much back then, sort of lurked, until I got to know and understand
many of the people here.
I have come to the conclusions that there are many former POW/MIA's who
believe that we left some of our veterans behind. I have also read accounts
from other former POW/MIA's that we did not leave anyone behind.
If they are not of one consensus, that it can be expected that all who post
here
or not of the same consensus either.
As Steve Smith wrote, "what is your point?"
Charles Penley
"Lou Redmond" <rfea...@prairieweb.com> wrote in message
news:864sa...@enews3.newsguy.com...
[Rambling Snipped] When I say I snipped something, I really snip it.
Jkauff2017's [Rambling Snipped]
Pathfinder
Didn't Ross Perot or his organization put up a $2,000,000.00 reward
money several years back to anyone world wide, that could lead his
organization to recover even one live POW/MIA? To my knowledge there
was no one who came forward to claim or receive the REWARD.
Charles Penley
"Steve Golding" <ste...@nyct.net> wrote in message
news:nlqh4.2113$Ve7....@iad-read.news.verio.net...