It just that it seems that a few Laserdisc owners have some trouble
accepting the fact that a better video format has arrived.

DVD is superior to laserdisc. Just like CD is superior to records.

Now some of you may say that, it depends on the DVD. Well haven't we all
seen some very bad laserdiscs in our time.

DVD's are lower in price to the laserdisc counterpart. Lighter in weight.
Smaller size = easier storage. No need to flip a movie in the middle of it,
depending on the DVD.

About the only advantage laserdisc has over DVD is the size of the cover
art.

But people embrassed CD and that had smaller cover art, and people are
embracing DVD. People weigh the benefits over formats and cover art is not a
very big issue to most people.

On the newsgroup alone I see lots of people selling or auctioning off their
laserdisc players and/ or movies.

On the DVD newsgroup most of the posts are in regards to titles and rumors
of future releases.

And stores are selling off their laserdiscs at bargain prices, and usually
replacing the previous are with DVD's.

Even Pioneer sent out a flyer selling lots of laserdiscs at low prices.

They don't want to be stuck with lots of inventory for something they might
not be able to sell in a year or so.

I know that I may get flamed for this, but this is just my 2 cents.

And for your information. I am the proud owner of a laserdisc player for
well over 12 years now, but I bought a DVD player last year and it beats
laserdisc in every way.

And I don't have to worry about laser rot either.

Just my 2 cents.

Doug <dougka...@yahoo.com> wrote in article
<7fl7mo$36p...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>...

HDTV? Oops, DVD doesn't cut it for that any better than LD.
Superior copy protection.
Superior dearth of old titles.
Superior (shorter) time to obsolescence.
The only way your statement holds up is that the quality of the playback
equipment is somewhat irrelevant with the digital medium, whereas the
analog ones reward the owners of high end equipment. A cheap DVD player is
a bettter investment than a cheap LD player.
And the shortcomings of the "superior" DVD are replicated on every disc
sold. Any time you go digital you leave something out. Anytime you go
digital and compress the hell out of the information, you leave more out.
Without compression a DVD disc will deliver about 12 minutes of NTSC per
side. The loss associated with this ratio would be unacceptable for any
kind of valuable data. Of course if you want to watch a video game and call
it a movie it makes no difference.
Nor with a high end LD Player.  What are you going to say if they have to
go back to 12 inch form factor to get 1000 lines of resolution?
From where I sit it's remarkable how little an improvement DVD is,
especially considering that LD is 1972 technology. As posted on this NG
before you are trading analog artifacts for digital artifacts. The analog
artifacts will vary with software and playback equipment, the digital ones
will be baseline. Until we see commodity priced RDVD (to replace VHS), the
only big advantage I see is for automotive installations.  
Thank God, I never would have paid retail for this stuff! Who the hell was
buying this at $50/disc? Oh that's right, you were!
So when is Ben-Hur coming out? How about La Dolce Vita or Lawrence of
Arabia?
Not as long as lemmings are dumping their collections.
I'd be delighted to buy your library for fifty cents /disc. I'll buy your
DVDs for the same figure in 2008.  Just like the clean LPs I bought for a
dime or a quarter five years ago,  the  LDs will be worth more then. Your
willingness to be swayed by the marketing of a watered-down transitional
technology is very patriotic and good for the economy.
I can't account for why you want to preach here, except to show us that you
kept a substandard LD player for 12 years. I've been into it for less than
two and have deployed five players.  The differences between them are
significant and obvious. AFAIK nobody is making industrial DVD players; why
make a ten year player when the format won't be around that long. The only
use I have for DVD is playing movies in my van from a laptop. That and
copying them to DLT tape, because a lossy-compressed bitstream looks just
as good from anything that can stream fast enough.
Neither do I, I've only seen it on one rental.
No I said 50 cents! Now and eight years from now. Do you happen to own any
SuperBeta, SVHS or 3/4 inch professional recording equipment?  DVD has made
them obsolete as well and I'd be glad to haul them off for you. I bet you
can't understand why they still use film in Hollywood?

Thank you "Head Lizard" for your down to earth and insightful comments - all of
which reflect the reasons why I still collect laserdiscs (still buying both
used and brand new) - and still have no intention of jumping on the DVD
bandwagon.

Long live laserdisc.

I don't collect DVD's - I collect LASERDISCS.

"What one loves about life are the things that fade." - Michael Cimino's
HEAVEN'S GATE

Either you have a very small collection or are VERY lucky.  And obviously
have never bought any discs pressed by Sony.

In article <01be8c1f$4f4eed40$c89c2dc7@danschoe>,
  "HeadLizard" <h...@tesser.com> wrote:

Did you actually try to copy a DVD to a streamer and did it work? I thought
DVD were encoded to prevent that.

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Hogwash. In my 11 years of buying laserdiscs, I must've bought
somewhere on the order of 1200 (I don't have that many now, since
many were upgrades, or ones I didn't want any more and traded in).
Of those 1200, I've probably encountered laser rot on about 12
discs max. That's 1%. Not a significant number to me.

And as for Sony pressings, I've got a bunch of them, and not a one
has rotted. Of all the discs I have that have been mentioned in
this ng as being Notorious Rotters, my copies are still pristine
as the day I bought them.

--- jayembee (Jerry.Boyaj...@eds.com)

"There's a Malibu Barbie that needs to meet Mr. Guillotine...head on."

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

In article <7fmr6j$1r...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
  Jerry.Boyaj...@eds.com (jayembee) wrote:

Play the lottery! With such a luck, you may win the main prize... Of all the
discs I have that have been mentioned as being Notorious Rotters, more than
half of my copies have rotted.

Statistics, statistics...

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

Bravo!

I'm constantly amazed at the slavish worship of all things digital. Why
is it that everyone assumes that digital is better?!?

Perhaps one day they will ban live performances at the great opera
houses of the world. They can install state of the art digital
equipment and just play DVD-Audio for a performance. Life is analog, so
therefore inferior to a digital recreation.

<snort>

This sounds like a bad 70's sci-fi movie...

There are pros and cons to everything. I truly believe that when failry
evaluated LD is marginally better that DVD - when taking ALL aspects of
the format in to consideration. I mean we are dealing with many issues
- from technical to political.

As you intimated - DVD is an interim format. I wonder how many of the
current devotees will howl when the "next" version of home video is
introduced and supplants DVD? It sure as hell wont take 20 years for
that to happen....

Bill

William L. Griffin IV (billg...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
: There are pros and cons to everything. I truly believe that when failry
: evaluated LD is marginally better that DVD - when taking ALL aspects of
: the format in to consideration. I mean we are dealing with many issues
: - from technical to political.

So, Bill...*you* must be the guy who's going around saying LD is the
"ultimate" format!  I've never recalled seeing anybody making that statement
here, yet according to recent claims, it seems to be the reason behind the
DVD cops swarming this newsgroup.

It's all your fault.  It's all your fault.  :-)

Dan

--

We will just take a lesson from this group
and pretend that the new format is inferior
and recommend that people buy a $10000.00
DVD player. LD supporters brag about how
long LD was without competition and that
DVD will be threatened by a new format
very soon. If LD had been successful,
more than a niche item, I believe it would
have warranted earlier replacement. DVD's
success will pave the way for an even better format. I think DVD is superb but
not the
ultimate format. It is the best format available
now.
                              Kraig

 If you like regon codes and Macrovision, you'll love what they give us
next.  They will take baby steps until we have a system that resembles
DIVX.  It will be people like you that fall for it hook line and sinker.

I'll still be using my laserdisc player, and cheap DVD's that I'll get
from ebay once they've been declaired obsolete by you.

--                                         ,
                                         ,@[
                                       ,@@@[
                                     ,@@@@'@@@@'
`@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@',@@@'            ,@@@@',@@@'
  `@@@@@@@@@@@@',@@@',aa.       ,aa.   ,@@[  ]@@',@@@' ,aa.'aaaaaaa, aa'
    `@@@@@@@@',@@@|@@@@@@@'  ,@@@@@@'  ]@@[  ]',@@@',@@@@@@@''@@@@',@'
      `@@@@',@@@']@7`,@@',@[]@@@@@',@@[]@@[  ]@@[  ]@7`,@@',@[ '@@@'
        `@a@@@'  ]@,@@',@@@[]@@@' ,@@@[]@@[  ]@@[  ]@,@@',@@@[ ,@@@,
          `@'     `@@@@@@@'  `@@@@@@@' ]@@[  ]@@[   `@@@@@@@',@@@',@@,
                     `~'        `~'    `~~'  `~~'      `~'  '~~' ~~~~~'

.....................................GCE Vectrex - Entertaining New Ideas
email...................jpatt...@zoo.uvm.edu / ranma_saoto...@hotmail.com

On a related note, here's a direct quote from one of the trade publications
(Caps mine):

"Among current DVD users, preferences for widescreen and full-frame are
almost equally split, studio executives say, the percentage of widescreen
fans is DECREASING as the format reaches a broader audience.

'I think DVD will be a mass-market format and then you'll have less
discerning viewers,' says Fox Lorber Home Video President Michael Oliveri.

"Despite the cries of WS aficionados, who note over and over again how
reformatted versions butcher scenes, mass audiences continue to demonstrate
a dramatic preference
for pan-and-scan, studio executives say."

As DVD grows, ( VP Charlie Katz) says Universal will re-evaluate the
widescreen market, including the "confusion" caused by the different
offerings."

Dear Jake
      I do not support DIVX. Does anyone?
I hear this whining about Macrovision and region codes but who wouldn't buy a
DVD just because they cannot make illegal
copies of it? I support the artists, film and
music, that I enjoy by purchasing or renting
their work legally. Bootleg friendly formats
should be discouraged to protect the artists.
                                             Kraig

they can tape it
code

One problem I had with Macrovision was in trying to hook up the DVD, not
in trying to make illegal copies.  My VCR had an extra input, my amp did
not. The DVD was not viewable when connected thru the VCR and I did not
have "record" turned on.  So, it's not just an issue of making illegal
copies (or legal backups).

Dear Joe
      Thank you for a very disheartening post.
I think we can agree that Widescreen versions are imperative for our home video
enjoyment. I don't mind DVDs that include
a Pan & Scan version WITH the WS. For
the record, I will never buy a P&S only DVD.
                                             Kraig

I think one of the main reasons for the success of LD and now DVD (even
faster growing) is widescreen....
I know that I would not buy a P&S only DVD....

--
Richard
Post-Age Collectibles
http://www.post-age-collectibles.com/

William L. Griffin IV wrote in message
<7fnhfo$...@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>...

This might be an opportune time to mention some recent developments.  At a
trade show held Wednesday, Pioneer announced that, by years end, they will
no longer be manufacturing
NTSC-Only monitors.  All Pioneer product will be either HD or  digital
HD-ready sets. A bold statement this early on.

This will also be the last year that Pioneer will manufacture the 606 LD
player.  Only the low-end 406 will still be made. So for those who don't
want the refurbished Elites and simply must have a newly manufactured
player, you'd better get the 606 while you can.

Also this week, NBC has signed a deal with Intel to facilitate and provide
HD broadcasts.  CBS is also looking to team up with hardware providers to
help provide HD funding.

D-VHS should become more available later this year, and perhaps also  HD-VHS
(if they can ever resolve the operational problems.)

Most have already heard of the RCA HD-DIVX player announcements.  We'll have
to see how that pans out.  But at least two different studio reps have
mentioned to me that there is some interest.  It's not that they are so in
love with DIVX, but they do appreciate the encryption.

And HD software (format yet to be determined) should find it's way into
homes in approx. 2 years, with a major SF epic (don't ask) still slated to
be one of the first releases.

 It is also worth mentioning that there are ligitimate fair-use related
resons to make copies from DVD's.  Maybe you are producing a public access
tv show that reviews new release DVD's and you want to show portions of the
movie in the context of a review.  IANAL, but I think this would fall under
fair use, and it would be necessary to circumvent the Macrovision in order
to do this.

 As far as region coding goes, I simply don't see this as a ligitimate
protection for the artists.  I should be able to buy an imported DVD and
play it, it is one planet we are on, after all.

--
       |@ ]@[ @|
       |@ ]@[ @|           /@@@@@\ |@@@@@@@@@| /@@@@@\   +@@@@@@@@K  |@@@|
       J@ ]@[ @K          ;@@@^@@@;|@@@@@@@@@|;@@@^@@@;  |@@@| \@@@L |@@@|
      .@| ]@[ |@.         J@@' `@@K   |@@@|   J@@' `@@K  |@@@| /@@@K |@@@|
      J@' ]@[ `@K        ;@@@@@@@@@;  |@@@|  ;@@@@@@@@@; |@@@@@@@@L  |@@@|
     J@F  ]@[  `@K       J@@@@@@@@@K  |@@@|  J@@@@@@@@@K |@@@|\@@@\  |@@@|
   J@@'   ]@[   `@@K    ;@@@@   @@@@; |@@@| ;@@@@   @@@@;|@@@| `@@@L |@@@|
 J@@P     ]@[     9@@K  J@@@V   ?@@@K |@@@| J@@@V   ?@@@K|@@@|   \@@@|@@@|
@@P       ]@[       9@@K

email....................jpatt...@zoo.uvm.edu / ranma_saoto...@hotmail.com

For the record, I will never buy a P&S only DVD.            
   Kraig

Dear Richard
        Did we accidently agree on something?
                                              Kraig

I agree with your sentiment. I think an incombatibility of international
copyright
laws and enforcement may have led to
the Region coding.
                                      Kraig

Nope, not fair use -- that would be a public broadcast of material licensed
for private use only. Studios supply clip tapes to the media for the
purpose of reviews.

Norm Wilner
Starweek Magazine

<Snipped>

Wow! That was a great post! :-)
Right on brother Lizard!

Cheers,
Nick

:>> And I don't have to worry about laser rot either.
:>Neither do I, I've only seen it on one rental.

: Either you have a very small collection or are VERY lucky.  And obviously
: have never bought any discs pressed by Sony.

Chalk it up to clean living. I have both Alien boxes and a slew of Tri Star
discs in my collection of ~280 discs and never seen a bit of rot.
--
Offsite mail to this host gets nuked.

: I think one of the main reasons for the success of LD and now DVD (even
: faster growing) is widescreen....
: I know that I would not buy a P&S only DVD....

That means there are plenty of Warners you won't be buying.
--
Offsite mail to this host gets nuked.

 Again, IANAL, but my understanding is that fair use law specifically
allows for you to use _portions_ of copyrighted material in the context of
a review.  Of course the studios want reviewers to use only the clips that
they supply, but I don't think they would supply clips to a public access
producer anyway.  Are you a lawyer?  If not, is there an actual lawyer on
here who can clear this up?

--
       |@ ]@[ @|
       |@ ]@[ @|           /@@@@@\ |@@@@@@@@@| /@@@@@\   +@@@@@@@@K  |@@@|
       J@ ]@[ @K          ;@@@^@@@;|@@@@@@@@@|;@@@^@@@;  |@@@| \@@@L |@@@|
      .@| ]@[ |@.         J@@' `@@K   |@@@|   J@@' `@@K  |@@@| /@@@K |@@@|
      J@' ]@[ `@K        ;@@@@@@@@@;  |@@@|  ;@@@@@@@@@; |@@@@@@@@L  |@@@|
     J@F  ]@[  `@K       J@@@@@@@@@K  |@@@|  J@@@@@@@@@K |@@@|\@@@\  |@@@|
   J@@'   ]@[   `@@K    ;@@@@   @@@@; |@@@| ;@@@@   @@@@;|@@@| `@@@L |@@@|
 J@@P     ]@[     9@@K  J@@@V   ?@@@K |@@@| J@@@V   ?@@@K|@@@|   \@@@|@@@|
@@P       ]@[       9@@K

email....................jpatt...@zoo.uvm.edu / ranma_saoto...@hotmail.com