Homemade DVD is Copyrighted!?! HORRIBLE REVOLTING DEVELOPMENT!!!

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

Originally I tried posting this last night, but it didn't show up. It
could be the machines conspiring against me again. If the first post
does show up later, please ignore it and reply to this one.

To recap the agony which has consumed my life for the last four months,
using iMovie 3.0.3 in my Macintosh G4, with extreme effort I assembled
some titles and outtakes for a movie otherwise to be entirely dubbed
directly from my Sony 8mm camcorder to VHS tape. The reason being,
such gallons of blood, toil, sweat, and tears were expended for the
relatively short amount of footage edited in iMovie under NO CONDITION
was I going to try to edit ANYTHING CLOSE to the entire four hours, at
least not in iMovie 3.0.3. By the time I finished, I had run into so
many bugs in iMovie 3.0.3 I resolved to buy the latest version of
iMovie before I'm ready to edit anything again.

The footage from my video camera was transferred to iMovie using a
Canopus ADVC 110 converter, edited in iMovie, then burned to DVD using
Toast 7 Titanium version 7.0.2 and a LaCie 16x4x16x DVD +-RW Double
Layer FireWire burner.
http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10311

So far, so good, I had a DVD, but then I learned the player I had would
play a DVD OR record a VHS tape but NOT BOTH AT THE SAME TIME!
Refusing to be daunted, I used some jacks to connect the DVD player to
a VCR and played the DVD while recording on the VCR. This worked fine
for the opening and center titles since they were in black-and-white,
but when I got to the color sequences, starting with the bows, the VCR
would record them ONLY in black-and-white!

So I returned the DVD player, which was quite new, and used the money
to buy this thing--a Zenith VCR/DVD burner at Radio Shack--
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2104618&cp=2032...
to solve my problem.

It worked BEAUTIFULLY--or so it seemed. I finished recording the tape,
in color, and my friend was able to run off any number of VHS tapes
from it. Then he put my original VHS tapes into his Sony VCR/DVD
RDR-VX 500 to make the DVDs. All worked well--UNTIL IT HIT THE BOWS,
then the whole thing STOPPED DEAD! It said it was copyrighted material
and could not be duplicated! This, from a homemade DVD I BURNED
MYSELF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My friend is savvy enough (heck, even I am *that* savvy) to know once
the VHS tape is copied that should take care of any of that-type stuff.
So he put in one of the VHS copies he had made of the tape to try to
continue the DVD burning process and it did THE SAME THING AT THE SAME
PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What's more, if that DVD had been copyrighted, the Zenith should never
have let me dub it to tape in the first place--it ought to know better!
As soon as he called me with this news, I ran straight to the Zenith,
put a blank VHS tape in, put a copy-protected DVD in, pressed
"Dubbing," and sure enough, a message came right up, "Protected
material is uncopyable" or the like.

Still, I can't help but suspect the Zenith as having had a hand in the
nefarious business, as everything (INCLUDING the titles taken off the
SAME DVD by way of the VCR) acted FINE up until the part done on the
Zenith! I also have to suspect Toast, the LaCie, or both may be
involved, as I dubbed ALL the camcorder material on that second tape on
the Zenith and it worked fine.

I THINK THEY'RE ALL CONSPIRING AGAINST ME TO AT LAST DEPRIVE ME OF MY
FEW REMAINING SHREDS OF
SANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So here we are: my friend can dub any number of VHS tapes, but, EVEN
THE COPIES have this "whatever-it-is" bug that was put on at some point
either in the DVD-making process or in the dubbing process on the
Zenith though I don't see how. Meaning, presumably, at least if other
peoples' equipment acts like my friend's, even years in the future when
people try to transfer their VHS tapes to DVD THEY WILL STOP BURNING IN
THE SAME PLACE! Right at the bows. And might or might not tape in the
sequences after that, EXCEPT, OF COURSE, those I edited in iMovie, ON
WHICH I EXPENDED THE MOST HEARTBREAKING LABOR!

What's more, there are reasons we WANT DVD copies
NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Before anyone asks why my friend doesn't burn his DVDs directly from
mine, the reason the DVD copies my friend is making CAN'T be recorded
directly from the DVD I made is because my DVD contained ONLY the
material edited in iMovie. On the tape itself is well over an hour of
material dubbed DIRECTLY from the camcorder to the VHS tape,
interspersed with material from the DVD--I was switching back and forth
between them and it took HOURS to do. To redo it I would basically
have to redo the WHOLE TAPE from that point, or have nasty edit marks
from hitting "Stop" before the parts I didn't replace, unless I tried
to hit "Pause," if that would work.

Someone on another forum asked what media I used to burn to. I didn't
even THINK to blame the media. I just filled out support forms for
every software program and piece of hardware I used, plus my friend's
machine. The media I used was Fujifilm DVD-R 4.7 GB/Go 120 Min Disc
for Data and Video, up to 8x write speed. I don't know what my speed
was but I clicked "Best" before burning if that tells anything. I
looked the media up, supposing if it was really awful maybe I could
bring myself to remake the thing if I'm SURE the media is to blame and
not some AWFUL hardware or software defect! Well, these people
http://www.videohelp.com/dvdmedia.php?selectmedia=553&nextcomments=0#usercomments
say the media is very good and has worked on all sorts of Sony
products. Of course, my disk never had actual contact with the Sony,
and no one mentions LaCie or Zenith products. I'd much rather it WAS
the media--it's by far the most easily fixable of all items in the
process.

Now, of course I *could* just stick the VHS tape into the Zenith and
dub a quickie DVD on the attached DVD burner, but it would of course
copy the bug. The only other solution I have is for my friend to give
me back the second tape, and me to run it back into iMovie starting at
the problem part using the Canopus. This will mean purchasing the
iMovie update right away, before I was planning to, as I REFUSE to use
iMovie 3.0.3 EVER again. Now, since it's all edited already, this
shouldn't mess up anything that's on the tape. My questions (which you
knew I was getting to) are:

1. HOW CAN THIS HAVE HAPPENED?????????? WHAT CAN BE DONE TO PREVENT
ITS HAPPENING EVERY TIME I WANT TO MAKE A DVD??????????????????

2. If I run the material from the VHS tape back to iMovie using the
Canopus, will the Canopus "unencode" the problem area sufficiently that
I can run the sequence back out through the Canopus onto another VHS
tape so my friend can copy the movie onto DVD from that tape?

3. How can I find whatever the problem was in burning my DVD and fix
it before I EVER burn another DVD? Was it in Toast, the LaCie burner,
or some perversion specially wrought by the Zenith? Is there any
possible way the problem could have been in iMovie 3.0.3 or did it
happen after the footage left iMovie?

Predictably, LaCie and Zenith both say it isn't them. LaCie also says
the problem isn't in Toast. Guess they've never heard of such a
problem.

Cori

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

I emailed my friend asking him to Fast Forward ahead on the tape to one
of the other five sections done from the DVD. If those WILL record on
his Sony, then the problem was ONLY in the one section. In that case,
the first thing I'd do is give him my original DVD and see if he can
dub just that section directly from my DVD to his DVD. If not,
recording the material to DVD on the Zenith is a good option because
I'd start right before the bows, so if it had a problem, it would be
apparent right away.

Someone on the Toast forum says if it does become necessary to involve
the Canopus, I can use the free program Vidi to import to Toast. THANK
GOODNESS it is not necessary to go through iMovie again! I just
plunked down a huge amount of cash for a car payment, then paid car
insurance, life insurance, and still have taxes (which I refused to
work on until this whole ordeal was over--had the papers in front of me
when my friend called and rushed straight to the computer, so taxes are
still hanging over my head--) I was NOT looking forward to plunking
down for another computer program, in fact, after this I didn't want to
think of it, for, oh, a couple months.

Anyhow, one of these ought to work without going into a total panic.

Cori

[Larry Johnson]

My question is this. If you captured the material using the Canopus unit,
why didn't you simply playback the edited version to a VCR in the first
place? The ADVC units are bi-directional allowing input and output. Why do
to all this bother with making a DVD, etc., etc., etc.???? Did you read the
manual for the ADVC unit at all? It's all right there in black and white!!

<cmashiel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144779929.2...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...

[Kill Bill]

Larry Johnson wrote:

> My question is this. If you captured the material using the Canopus unit,
> why didn't you simply playback the edited version to a VCR in the first
> place? The ADVC units are bi-directional allowing input and output. Why do
> to all this bother with making a DVD, etc., etc., etc.???? Did you read the
> manual for the ADVC unit at all? It's all right there in black and white!!

That's what I was thinking too.. Seams like a huge amount of dubbing,
loosing the quality all along the way, just to achieve this.

I might have to read this whole thing over a few times. To figure out
how he made copyrighted DVDs from DVD-R's. It's NOT possible with
consumer DVD burners, so one would assume that the DVD player he is
using must be flagging (even though its not) everything as copyrighted
material on playback.

-Bill

[Alpha]

"Kill Bill" <billc...@NOSPAM88.com> wrote in message
news:baU_f.445605$fe6.2...@fe01.news.easynews.com...

No Bill. Some hardware inserts copy protection on everything so extra
generations cannot be made.

>

[Gordon Burditt]

I have had problems with very old, snowy off-the-air VHS tapes
showing up as copy-protected according to my Panasonic E85. Actually
tapes that snowy aren't worth transferring to DVD, but my preferred
method of transferring to DVD is to play the entire tape into the
Panasonic, then slice up the recording into programs (which may
have very noisy stuff in between them). This doesn't work if it
thinks that any parts of the tape are copy-protected, and it seems
that noise is sometimes mistaken for a copy-protect flag. It doesn't
always stop in exactly the same place, either.

It is possible, in principle, and possibly cheaper to design hardware
that does not look at the incoming video material and always marks it
copy-protected. If you know what hardware this is, avoid it like the
plague. Professional equipment may have a switch where you can set the
copy-protect status as desired for generating masters, but you probably
can't afford this.

Gordon L. Burditt

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

Larry Johnson wrote:
> My question is this. If you captured the material using the Canopus unit,
> why didn't you simply playback the edited version to a VCR in the first
> place? The ADVC units are bi-directional allowing input and output. Why do
> to all this bother with making a DVD, etc., etc., etc.???? Did you read the
> manual for the ADVC unit at all? It's all right there in black and white!!

Because with the Canopus I'd have to connect a VCR and then run the
material out blind and not know what I got until I connect the VCR to a
TV. Also, I was afraid with converting it to digital (on the Mac) and
then back to analog (on a VCR) there'd be a generational loss. With a
DVD I could make a Disk Image and see exactly what I was getting. It
stayed digital and there was no loss.

Cori

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

> I might have to read this whole thing over a few times. To figure out
> how he made copyrighted DVDs from DVD-R's. It's NOT possible with
> consumer DVD burners, so one would assume that the DVD player he is
> using must be flagging (even though its not) everything as copyrighted
> material on playback.
>
> -Bill

LaCie swears neither their machine nor Toast flagged anything. Zenith
said their machine is not made to do any such flagging. If true, my
friend's machine, the Sony, would have to be doing it AFTER the fact.
I still need to ask him whether it did this on all the other
DVD-generated clips, or just in the one spot.

Cori

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

Still waiting to learn my friend's results on dubbing the other
DVD-originated material from VHS to DVD. He doesn't have the capacity
to dub directly from DVD to DVD so that's not an option--I guess if I
gave him a DVD he'd have to dub it to VHS before he could dub it to
DVD. I'd be delighted to absolutely ascertain that the problem was
caused by switching back and forth between the DVD and the camcorder
and that it's not something with my DVD burner or the DVD authoring
program causing EVERY DVD I make to have this issue! Because if I make
my next movie entirely on DVD, (which I planned to) and he tries to dub
it to VHS, (which he will) THEN WHAT???

Cori

[Richard Ragon]

Alpha wrote:

What hardware? Copy protection is done via the manufacturing process,
and can't be done by the consumer.

-Richard

[Richard Crowley]

"Richard Ragon" wrote ...

> Alpha wrote:
>> No Bill. Some hardware inserts copy protection on
>> everything so extra generations cannot be made.
>
> What hardware? Copy protection is done via the manufacturing
> process, and can't be done by the consumer.

"Copy protection" on digital media like DVD video discs
consists of a single information bit stored in the header of
the video file. The hardware is required to implement the
Macrovsion (or whatever) signal distortion whenever it
sees the copy-protect flag. This is enforced by denying
the licence and "secret" codes to any hardware manufacturer
who does not agree to thos scheme.

Clearly at some level all these schemes rely on the good
faith of somebody: the hardware manufacturers who have
much to gain if they go along with the scheme, and much
to loose if they don't. Of course, there are places on this
planet where compliance with such schemes is not as
fully subscribed as others.

This thread has got somewhat far afield from the original
question which seems to have demonstrated a "perfect
storm" of bad decisions on how to achieve the OP's
objectives.

[Larry Johnson]

You can always hook a TV to the VCR. You would not be converting anything,
just do a simple playback of the finished program from the timeline of
iMovie.

<cmashiel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144810524.0...@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...

[thrugood...@hotmail.com]

Sounds like CGMS.

Get one of these.
http://www.dimax.com.ua/dvd/dvdredpro.shtml

They work.

OK, more detail you want?

My best guess is that you made a tape from an unknown video source
(unrecognized by the VHS recorder), and the recorder basically said
"OK, I'll copy this for you. BUT...I'm not going to let you make
copies of the copy." It sounds like the CGMS signal got added at that
point.

I don't know that has happened, but the failure you describe--where the
recorder recognizes the material as copyrighted--sounds like it WON'T
record, not like it CANT.

So,now your tape says "Hey, man, don't copy me!". Your friends
equipment that he uses to copy tapes is either old and made before CGMS
was common or it's professional equimpent, and does what its owner
tells it to do.

The DVD burner you bought from Radio Shack, is fairly new. It
recognizes CGMS (they all do, now, and have for some time), and
therefore detects and respects the CGMS in the tape.

Some good links:
http://dvddemystified.com/
(look for CGMS in the FAQ)
http://www.videohelp.com/
http://www.dimax.com.ua

BTW, you're just going to love the new HDTV stuff.

[Hebee Jeebes]

Yes it can. Ulead's DVD Workshop can add the same copy protection to your
DVDs as is used by Studio's. You have to pay some third party company for a
license to do it, but it can be done.

The chances are in order to keep from being chewed up and spit out by
Hollywood the DVD recording makers added copy protection. My Panasonic discs
can't be copied without using AnyDVD and CloneDVD (these are what I use to
remove protection and copy and burn a disc. Other such programs will work as
well).

R

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

When I hear back from my friend, we'll know if this applied to
everything that came off the DVD, or only the one part. Both LaCie and
Zenith claimed their hardware had no such "flagging"
DVD-or-video-protection program. I was just trying to ascertain that
no such thing could have made its way onto the DVD on purpose or even
by accident. May still need to identify what happened to try to
prevent its ever happening again--as I stated, my friend plans to dub
mass VHSs off my DVDs.

Cori

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

What I'll probably have to do on future projects is give my friend a
VHS tape made by running all the material out of the computer through
the Canopus--since I won't be going back to dubbing from the camcorder
if the entire project has been all edited in the computer--and when
it's being dubbed from DVDs it seems to be picking up something along
the way telling my friend's equipment not to make more copies.

Cori

[FLY135]

Sounds like a simple case of cheap low end hardware erring on the side
of copy protection. The circuitry that detects the copy protect signal
is probably cheap and unreliable.

[Hebee Jeebes]

It is not flagging. It is actual encryption, they wrap the whole video and
audio in it. It is called CSS (not to be confused with web CSS). This is why
you can't copy commercial discs without something like AnyDVD. If it was
just a simple flag (which there is that indicates the disc is Copyrighted,
but doesn't stop one from copying it with something like Nero) that won't
stop you from copying it. CSS protection will and if you don't ask the tech
monkeys the right questions you could easily assume that you meant the
copyright flag which it might not use, but does use the CSS protection.

R

[Richard Crowley]

cmashieldscapting wrote ...

DVD video is good for nothing but end-user distribution.
You have demonstrated why it is NOT suitable even for an
intermediate step in production/editing/copying/distribution, etc.

There are people who come through here regularly wishing they
could make DVD video discs that could not be copied. Maybe
you could offer your services to these people? :-)

[Richard Crowley]

cmashieldscapting wrote ...

> Larry Johnson wrote:
>> My question is this. If you captured the material using the Canopus unit,
>> why didn't you simply playback the edited version to a VCR in the first
>> place? The ADVC units are bi-directional allowing input and output. Why
>> do
>> to all this bother with making a DVD, etc., etc., etc.???? Did you read
>> the
>> manual for the ADVC unit at all? It's all right there in black and
>> white!!
>
> Because with the Canopus I'd have to connect a VCR and then run the
> material out blind and not know what I got until I connect the VCR to a
> TV.

Weighed against the operational and quality problems you have
described, I would think this would be a very easy tradeoff decision
to make. Your mileage obviously varies.

>Also, I was afraid with converting it to digital (on the Mac) and
> then back to analog (on a VCR) there'd be a generational loss.
> With a DVD I could make a Disk Image and see exactly what
> I was getting. It stayed digital and there was no loss.

Actually it is likely the opposite. Running back out through the ADVC
unit takes the much-less-compressed DV and translates it directly
into analog for recording on your VCR. Going through the DVD
step further compresses (and then un-compresses) it to and from
MPEG which is a significantly lower quality path (as you have
demonstrated first-hand.)

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

thrugood...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Sounds like CGMS.
>
> Get one of these.
> http://www.dimax.com.ua/dvd/dvdredpro.shtml

I agree that CGMS, CPRM protection, or some such thing is occurring.
My friend tried dubbing again, and his Sony dubs everything taken off
the camcorder, then stops dead again at the next section taken off the
DVD. That eliminates all other offered explanations, such as
extraneous noise, out of synch, etc.

But where was the CPRM protection put on? When the disk was burned,
meaning I should jump on LaCie, the makers of the DVD burner, and
Toast, the makers of the DVD authoring program? Or when the material
was transferred from DVD to VHS, meaning I should jump more heavily on
Zenith? It's my inclination to blame Zenith but don't want to jump on
the wrong ones.

In a way I'm glad thousands are in the same boat, as manufacturers in
the future will have to deal with it!

I also heartily concur with the person who said running it into and
back out of the Canopus, besides further wasting my time and
aggravating me, is going to really deterioriorate the quality. And I
think we ALL AGREE that I DON'T want to reedit the entire tape from
that point on in iMovie! Before spending 80 bucks on another piece of
equipment, though, and then having to wait for the equipment to arrive,
could I do something like this?

http://danslagle.com/mac/iMovie/tips_tricks/6010.shtml

I glanced over it as one option among several, so maybe someone here
will understand it better than I. Can I do it without buying more
equipment? Should I do it to the entire contents of the affected
portion of the tape--even the parts without the problem? Thanks.

Cori

[Oldus Fartus]

No, that is not what has happened. CSS is a commercial system, which
require a license and fees to be paid. Even if Cori's authoring
program was setting the CSS flag, it does not scramble the video. As
an example, see what DVD Workshop actually does in this case:

"2. CSS:
CSS uses data encryption techniques to scramble video on DVD media, thus
preventing playback on DVD devices that do not have decryption
capabilities. To be authorized to decrypt CSS-protected content,
hardware manufacturers must apply to the DVD Copy Control Association
(DVD CCA) for a license and decryption key (refer to www.dvdcca.org for
details). DVD Workshop 2 does not scramble the content, but only sets a
flag in the DDP header. The DVD mastering company then reads the flag
and requests the encryption data from the producer. The producer must
apply separately for the encryption data."

--
Cheers
Oldus Fartus

[Hebee Jeebes]

By any chance the place where it stops does is coincide with you stopping
the video camera and the restarting? The reason I ask that when you start
and stop recording on a video camera (digital one) some software programs
use this information to break the video down in to smaller parts. Maybe this
is being detected and is tripping so sort of copy protection thing?

R

[Hebee Jeebes]

Yes and those fees could easily be paid by the maker of the DVD recorder and
not the user. So still the DVD recorder could still be adding CSS.

Until you try using one of the programs that strips out this copy protection
you don't know. You are only guessing and since you don't seem to be making
any leeway it couldn't hurt to try.

As for DVD Workshop if it is just a flag why do they tell you when you turn
on the option that you have go and buy a license. You wouldn't have to if it
was just a little simple flag.

R

[Jukka Aho]

Hebee Jeebes wrote:

> Yes and those fees could easily be paid by the maker of the DVD
> recorder and not the user. So still the DVD recorder could still be
> adding CSS.

CSS was cracked years ago. It's dead in the water. Any schoolkid can
decipher CSS-"protected" discs with tools that are freely available on
the Internet. The story about "DVD-Jon" and CSS and T-shirts with the
DeCSS code and whatnot must have been one of the most publicized stories
about DRM failures ever, perhaps second only to Sony's recent audio CD
rootkit catastrophe. What would be the use of adding CSS to your own
discs if it doesn't protect the content in any practical way?

--
znark

[Larry Johnson]

Jesus, why are you so hooked on this subject. Output through the Canopus
unit using the original capture setting from the timeline of
iMovie....f**kin' moron

<cmashiel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144779929.2...@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...

[Oldus Fartus]

cmashiel...@hotmail.com wrote:
> thrugood...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Sounds like CGMS.
>>
>> Get one of these.
>> http://www.dimax.com.ua/dvd/dvdredpro.shtml
>
> I agree that CGMS, CPRM protection, or some such thing is occurring.
> My friend tried dubbing again, and his Sony dubs everything taken off
> the camcorder, then stops dead again at the next section taken off the
> DVD. That eliminates all other offered explanations, such as
> extraneous noise, out of synch, etc.
>
> But where was the CPRM protection put on? When the disk was burned,
> meaning I should jump on LaCie, the makers of the DVD burner, and
> Toast, the makers of the DVD authoring program? Or when the material
> was transferred from DVD to VHS, meaning I should jump more heavily on
> Zenith? It's my inclination to blame Zenith but don't want to jump on
> the wrong ones.
>

To save having to go back and read four months of posts, where was the
DVD material sourced? I suspect that is where the problem lies.

--
Cheers
Oldus Fartus

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

No, it was an 8mm tape camera, not a video camera, and I stopped it at
least four times on that tape before the place where the Sony had the
problem. It had no problem with any camera material before or after
the part from the DVD--just the sections from the DVD.

Cori

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

Oldus Fartus wrote:

> To save having to go back and read four months of posts, where was the
> DVD material sourced? I suspect that is where the problem lies.
>
> --
> Cheers
> Oldus Fartus

I took the material, in this order:
1. Out of the 8mm video camera, into iMovie 3.0.3, by way of a Canopus
ADVC 110 converter
2. Out of iMovie 3.0.3, to a Disc Image, by way of Toast Titanium
Version 7.0.2
3. From the Disc Image, I burned to DVD on a LaCie drive which Toast
lists as DVDRW8651-FireWire

Cori

[Oldus Fartus]

Hebee Jeebes wrote:
> Yes and those fees could easily be paid by the maker of the DVD recorder and
> not the user. So still the DVD recorder could still be adding CSS.
>

You have very little understanding of the way it works if you think
that. The fees are paid for each implementation of the protection, and
manufacturers of DVD recorders have no need to pay those fees, why would
they?

> Until you try using one of the programs that strips out this copy protection
> you don't know. You are only guessing and since you don't seem to be making
> any leeway it couldn't hurt to try.
>

No, I am not guessing, as I use those programs too. If I had to guess I
would think Cori's problem is that the source material from the DVDs is
probably protected by a "copy once" flag. His authoring program honors
this flag and allows a single copy to be made, but will not allow copies
to be made from the copy.

> As for DVD Workshop if it is just a flag why do they tell you when you turn
> on the option that you have go and buy a license. You wouldn't have to if it
> was just a little simple flag.
>

Exactly the point I am making. For the home user it is not economical
to purchase the license and pay the fees. If you read what I posted,
DVD Workshop sets the flag, but does not scramble the video, it is up to
the mastering company to request the encryption data from the producer,
and that has to be paid for. During the mastering process the video is
scrambled and it is necessary to be decrypted to play using the player's
decryption key.

--
Cheers
Oldus Fartus

[Oldus Fartus]

That eliminates my earlier theory then.

Does the DVD you burned from the image play OK on a stand alone player?

--
Cheers
Oldus Fartus

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

Oldus Fartus wrote:

> Does the DVD you burned from the image play OK on a stand alone player?
>
> --
> Cheers
> Oldus Fartus

I haven't played it in a DVD-only player. I played it in the DVD
portion of my Sony DVD/VCR combo--the one I returned when I learned it
wouldn't record to VHS from a DVD in the same machine--and I played it
in the DVD portion of the Zenith.

If the DVD is really NOT encoded, and it's the Zenith VHS taping
process causing the problem--I suppose playing it in the Zenith and
recording to some OTHER player might work--but it can't be the VCR I
have because, as stated previously, for some reason that records from
the DVD only in black-and-white. And if I managed to either borrow
another DVD player or spring for having my broken one repaired, if I
played from that and then recorded to the Zenith, would it act any
different recording than the way it did when playing the DVD in the
Zenith?

At this point I am for as much as possible identifying and fixing the
problem so it doesn't occur again, rather than just masking it over.

Cori

[Oldus Fartus]

cmashiel...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Oldus Fartus wrote:
>
>> Does the DVD you burned from the image play OK on a stand alone player?
>>
>> --
>> Cheers
>> Oldus Fartus
>
> I haven't played it in a DVD-only player. I played it in the DVD
> portion of my Sony DVD/VCR combo--the one I returned when I learned it
> wouldn't record to VHS from a DVD in the same machine--and I played it
> in the DVD portion of the Zenith.
>
> If the DVD is really NOT encoded, and it's the Zenith VHS taping
> process causing the problem--I suppose playing it in the Zenith and
> recording to some OTHER player might work--but it can't be the VCR I
> have because, as stated previously, for some reason that records from
> the DVD only in black-and-white. And if I managed to either borrow
> another DVD player or spring for having my broken one repaired, if I
> played from that and then recorded to the Zenith, would it act any
> different recording than the way it did when playing the DVD in the
> Zenith?
>

As a matter of interest, is it the same portion of the DVD which gave
the problem in recording in black and white? Did you ever find the
cause of that?

> At this point I am for as much as possible identifying and fixing the
> problem so it doesn't occur again, rather than just masking it over.
>

I agree, and am not suggesting you try and mask over it. Somewhere in
the process there is a problem, and seeing as you have come this far, it
is only natural to want to get to a successful conclusion.

--
Cheers
Oldus Fartus

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

Oldus Fartus wrote:

> As a matter of interest, is it the same portion of the DVD which gave
> the problem in recording in black and white? Did you ever find the
> cause of that?

The EXACT same portion, NO, we did NOT find the cause, and that's a
very interesting point!

The first two segments off the DVD (opening titles and center titles)
were taped to the VHS tape by connecting a DVD player to a regular,
old-fashioned VCR. I noticed nothing wrong with pictures or sound as
the titles were in black-and-white anyway. This means not only did the
old-fashioned VCR NOT view that material as copy-protected, what's
more, my friend's Sony unit did NOT view that material as
copy-protected either although it went onto the SAME VHS tape and came
off THE SELFSAME DVD!!! His Sony had NO PROBLEM until it reached the
closing titles, which were done on the Zenith in color--THE WHOLE
REASON I bought the Zenith!

> > At this point I am for as much as possible identifying and fixing the
> > problem so it doesn't occur again, rather than just masking it over.
> >
>
> I agree, and am not suggesting you try and mask over it. Somewhere in
> the process there is a problem, and seeing as you have come this far, it
> is only natural to want to get to a successful conclusion.
>
> --
> Cheers
> Oldus Fartus

Wonderful! It's good to see some sensible soul sees the importance of
that. Some flaming moronic troll who doesn't deserve the dignity of a
reply suggested, not politely, that I take the original material off
the Hard Drive using the Canopus.

If I have to, AS AN ABSOLUTE DESPERATE LAST RESORT, this is what I'll
do, take the material out of iMovie through the Canopus.

As the problem is obviously with the DVD, if I were going to do that
I'd have to dub the material to VHS. To do that, I would have to
connect a VCR to the Canopus, run the material out from the computer
through the Canopus to the VCR, and record it.

Then I would have to VEEERRRRRYYY CAAARRRREFULLY dub that material, in
each appropriate spot, over the material that came off the DVD, in such
a way as to cover as much as possible of it WITHOUT cutting into the
video dubbed from the camcorder, or I'll end up redoing all THAT, too.
And this idiot doesn't see why I'm not all eager to do that and NEVER
learn what went wrong with the DVD in the first place or how the bug
may be lying in wait to sabotage my next project! Not to mention
taking a generational loss in quality, as taking digital to analog,
which this would be, would result in a generational loss vs. what I
originally did of burning the material straight from the computer to
DVD.

Before going through all that, I am SERIOUSLY considering having my old
VCR/DVD combo, the one which broke just before I reached the point of
burning a playable DVD, repaired, using the Zenith as a player only,
connecting it to the VCR/DVD combo, and seeing if THAT, being newer and
higher-tech than the plain old-fashioned VCR, will record the DVD
material in color and maybe NOT flag it as copy protected.

I just wish there was another way, like, if the problem is with the
Zenith and there's some way to reprogram it so it won't do that in the
first place, I could just redo the DVD material from the DVD itself to
the VHS tape and save exporting the material to a VHS tape from the
Canopus to a VCR connected to it, then connecting that VCR to the
Zenith and switching back and forth between viewing what's on which VCR
during the dubbing. Even if it's not the Zenith and the problem is in
the LaCie, Toast, or elsewhere, if it's possible I'd at least like to
KNOW.

I'll at least look into having the old VCR/DVD combo repaired and if no
other solution presents itself I'd like to at least try that before
resorting to taking the material back off the computer.

By the way, neither the Zenith nor Toast recognize the DVD as
copy-protected. When you view a copy-protected disk in Toast, a lock
icon comes up, which it didn't with this. When you press "Dubbing" on
the Zenith with a copy-protected DVD in, a warning comes up on the
screen immediately and it doesn't let you proceed further, which it
obviously did not do with this. So something besides copy protection
is going on here.

Cori

[Oldus Fartus]

cmashiel...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Oldus Fartus wrote:
>
>> As a matter of interest, is it the same portion of the DVD which gave
>> the problem in recording in black and white? Did you ever find the
>> cause of that?
>
> The EXACT same portion, NO, we did NOT find the cause, and that's a
> very interesting point!
>
> The first two segments off the DVD (opening titles and center titles)
> were taped to the VHS tape by connecting a DVD player to a regular,
> old-fashioned VCR. I noticed nothing wrong with pictures or sound as
> the titles were in black-and-white anyway. This means not only did the
> old-fashioned VCR NOT view that material as copy-protected, what's
> more, my friend's Sony unit did NOT view that material as
> copy-protected either although it went onto the SAME VHS tape and came
> off THE SELFSAME DVD!!! His Sony had NO PROBLEM until it reached the
> closing titles, which were done on the Zenith in color--THE WHOLE
> REASON I bought the Zenith!
>

OK, that would seem to indicate that there is something different about
what you call the closing titles. It is probably self evident, but are
they the same video standard as the other titles, and at the same
resolution? Normally when I see a video play in black and white it is
because I am trying to play an NTSC on a PAL only set or vice versa.

>>> At this point I am for as much as possible identifying and fixing the
>>> problem so it doesn't occur again, rather than just masking it over.
>>>
>> I agree, and am not suggesting you try and mask over it. Somewhere in
>> the process there is a problem, and seeing as you have come this far, it
>> is only natural to want to get to a successful conclusion.
>>
>> --
>> Cheers
>> Oldus Fartus
>
> Wonderful! It's good to see some sensible soul sees the importance of
> that. Some flaming moronic troll who doesn't deserve the dignity of a
> reply suggested, not politely, that I take the original material off
> the Hard Drive using the Canopus.
>
> If I have to, AS AN ABSOLUTE DESPERATE LAST RESORT, this is what I'll
> do, take the material out of iMovie through the Canopus.
>

If it is only the closing titles, then that should not be necessary, but
can I ask why you are doing it that way - having your friend try and
make VHS copies from both DVD and VHS?

--
Cheers
Oldus Fartus

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

Oldus Fartus wrote:

> If it is only the closing titles, then that should not be necessary, but
> can I ask why you are doing it that way - having your friend try and
> make VHS copies from both DVD and VHS?
>
>
> --
> Cheers
> Oldus Fartus

I was the one who made the DVD and dubbed it to the VHS tape. My
friend had about 40 of blank media, both VHS and DVD, to dub for other
people off my original and a master he would create from my original.
He did the VHSs fine, but when he went to make the DVDs, my original
was corrupt and the COPIES of my original were corrupt--in other words,
ANYONE in the future who tries to have their VHS transferred to DVD
will hit this problem.

What I can't figure, which is why I'm thinking of having the other
player repaired to experiment with, is why the same output from the
same DVD should register differently on the other VCR. The old VCR was
a cheap Emerson picked up quite some time ago at Wal-Mart for $50.00.
Obviously it processed the content differently because the copy played
back in black-and-white, with no CPRM protection (IF that's what it
was.) The Zenith played in color but the material showed on the Sony
as being protected, and whatever happened there happened before it got
to the Sony. That's why I tend to blame the Zenith, but they continue
to claim their product is made only to recognize and respect CPRM
protection, NOT to add it.

Cori

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

Besides the solutions (or complications if you prefer) I've already put
forth, I've come up with two more.

1. Running some sort of program on my friend's Sony to make it not do
what it's doing. Unlike Zenith and LaCie, who have been very
cooperative, Sony has not so much as acknowledged my support request,
so I don't know if this is even an option. Also, I HATE to suggest to
my friend having anything done to his equipment. I keep telling him
I'll fix the whole situation when I figure out the best way how.

2. Asking a friend who does professional video services, including
duplication, whether he either has equipment, or knows who does, to run
a VHS copy of my videotape and remove whatever encoding is on those DVD
sections, so I can give my friend a CLEAN copy of the tape from which
to dub without having to do ANYTHING to my original! I plan to email
him in about 8 and a half hours, just as soon as the 13th is over.
Sure, it will be Friday then, but I consider Friday much less of a jinx
than the 13th, so will take my chances.

Cori

[GMAN]

We still dont understand why if your friend is wanting to make dvd's of your
material then why oh why are you making a DVD , then recording to VHS and then
having him recopy to DVD? Why the hell dont you give him the DVD you created
and let him copy away with that????

[Larry Johnson]

If your friend in the the "professional video services" business then he
should very damn well have any and all manner of equipment to dub one tape
format to another. Our customers bring in everything format imaginable to
have copied to another format. This little problem of yours is just in your
mind. There is no way you can convince me that you could not simply use the
bi-directional function of the Canopus device to output to VHS. You wouldn't
even need to have a television hooked to the VCR because you can monitor
playback on the computer. Simply place 10 seconds of black at the beginning
and end of the video file which gives plenty of time to push the record
button and the stop button.

Sorry, I just have no tolerance for sheer stupidity. Ignorance is
appreciated. Stupidity is the bane of the weak minded!! You sir are the king
of the weak minded.

<cmashiel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144967822....@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

[Richard Crowley]

"GMAN" wrote ...

> We still dont understand why if your friend is wanting
> to make dvd's of your material then why oh why are you
> making a DVD , then recording to VHS and then having
> him recopy to DVD? Why the hell dont you give him the
> DVD you created and let him copy away with that????

Good for you if that is all you don't understand. :-)
I've given up on this thread as an experiment badly
conceived and regrettably executed. And attempts
to solve it seem to have made things worse. Oh well.

[Oldus Fartus]

cmashiel...@hotmail.com wrote:
Big snip

OK Cori, from a distance it seems to be close to impossible to see where
the problem is, so perhaps I could explain how I do it.

I import my video into the computer (PC, not Mac), in easily managed
chunks. For example, with one I did recently for a family 21st
birthday, each year became a chapter of my finished product. The video
could be from my DV camera, my old 8mm or a slideshow I created from
scanned photos along with a sound track of background music and/or
commentary. The main thing is to make sure each "chapter", made up
from scenes is all saved at the same resolution and video standard, and
in easy to manage chunks.

Each chapter is assembled of the component pieces and I create an MPEG2
file from each chapter.

Once all the component chapters are done, I import them back into my
authoring program and assemble them into the order I require, and add
opening and closing credits, and then convert to DVD format, saved both
to my hard drive, and burned to DVD. At the cost of blanks these days
I don't bother with RW, but that would be up to the individual.

At this stage I check to make sure the finished DVD plays correctly on a
stand alone player, and if so, then I have my master both on the
computer, and on a disc. If I have made an error, it is back to the
compilation stage, and repeat the process.

If I want to make a VHS copy from the finished product, I either use a
stand alone player, direct to a VHS deck, but monitor the recording by
attaching a screen to the VHS output *or* I use my computer's AV output
direct to VHS, once again monitoring the output from the player.

--
Cheers
Oldus Fartus

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

Oldus Fartus wrote:

> OK Cori, from a distance it seems to be close to impossible to see where
> the problem is, so perhaps I could explain how I do it.
>

> Big snip

>
> If I want to make a VHS copy from the finished product, I either use a
> stand alone player, direct to a VHS deck, but monitor the recording by
> attaching a screen to the VHS output *or* I use my computer's AV output
> direct to VHS, once again monitoring the output from the player.
>
> --
> Cheers
> Oldus Fartus

If the cause of the DVD problem either isn't discovered, or if it is
and is found to be uncorrectable, that's what I'm going to have to do
for all future projects--output from the computer, through the Canopus,
direct to VHS, and, have my friend burn me a DVD from the VHS copy. It
really sucks as I specifically bought a DVD burner so I could make
DVDs! But, what can you do? I can't put things into a format from
which no one else can EVER duplicate again!

If it doesn't create other problems, I can still use the LaCie to make
and copy CDs, and to at least copy DVDs once made.

Cori

[Oldus Fartus]

cmashiel...@hotmail.com wrote:
>

>
> If the cause of the DVD problem either isn't discovered, or if it is
> and is found to be uncorrectable, that's what I'm going to have to do
> for all future projects--output from the computer, through the Canopus,
> direct to VHS, and, have my friend burn me a DVD from the VHS copy. It
> really sucks as I specifically bought a DVD burner so I could make
> DVDs! But, what can you do? I can't put things into a format from
> which no one else can EVER duplicate again!
>

There is no way I would output from the computer to VHS, and then burn a

DVD from the VHS copy.

From what you have said, the majority of the DVD is fine, it is only
the closing titles which are giving a problem, and that problem has been
evident for a while.

Try re-importing the final titles (from the original source) into the
computer, and re-encode them, making sure resolution and video
standards are identical to earlier segments, and then reauthor the DVD.
Burn the DVD to RW, and then play it on an external player. If it
plays OK, then try recording the output from this player to VHS, but
monitor the output from the recorder.

> If it doesn't create other problems, I can still use the LaCie to make
> and copy CDs, and to at least copy DVDs once made.
>

Bit defeatist there Cori.

--
Cheers
Oldus Fartus

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

Warren Oates wrote:
> In article <1144967822....@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,

> cmashiel...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> > I plan to email
> > him in about 8 and a half hours, just as soon as the 13th is over.
> > Sure, it will be Friday then, but I consider Friday much less of a jinx
> > than the 13th, so will take my chances.
>

> It's really difficult to take you seriously when you blame some mystical
> external force for your problems. How are you at picking lottery numbers?

Hey, Warren. I was wondering when you'd get in on it. Yes, that's my
response when events are inexplicable. "Somebody or something is out
to get me," or "Somebody or something is out to get someone and this
time it's my turn." (I do the same thing when good things happen,
though.)

> In the event that _some_ of your VHS wound up Macrovisioned, then you
> need to put it through a time base corrector ("video stabilizer"), it's
> phi has gotten skewed.
> --
> W. Oates

Yes, I think it's the least amount of anguish to see if my friend with
the professional equipment can do this, rather than screwing with
potential "fixes" myself.

Cori

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

On Friday I took the VHS tape to my friend who is a professional
videographer. He said the tape would take real time (two hours) to
transfer to his equipment, then SIX HOURS to "encode." Whatever he
does ought to either make ALL of it work for my friend doing the
duplicates, or NONE of it!

By the way, he couldn't figure out what went wrong with my DVD either
and he's done this for a living for years.

If it still doesn't work, I will re-edit the entire second tape (not
just the part that won't dub) in the computer so it will ALL be in
there, in order, assembled more neatly than was possible dubbing from
the camcorder, then output straight to VHS, but I hope this works and
it doesn't come to that.

Cori

[Oldus Fartus]

cmashiel...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Friday I took the VHS tape to my friend who is a professional
> videographer. He said the tape would take real time (two hours) to
> transfer to his equipment, then SIX HOURS to "encode." Whatever he
> does ought to either make ALL of it work for my friend doing the
> duplicates, or NONE of it!
>

Now you have me confused. I thought it was the DVD copy of your
masterpiece which had the problems?

> By the way, he couldn't figure out what went wrong with my DVD either
> and he's done this for a living for years.
>

That surprises me. I would think a professional would pick the problem
up straight away.

> If it still doesn't work, I will re-edit the entire second tape (not
> just the part that won't dub) in the computer so it will ALL be in
> there, in order, assembled more neatly than was possible dubbing from
> the camcorder, then output straight to VHS, but I hope this works and
> it doesn't come to that.
>

So I have missed something else. Your friend is making copies for you
from two parts, one part on DVD and one part on VHS? Why haven't you
converted all your source material to the ONE format (DVD)?

--
Cheers
Oldus Fartus

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

Oldus Fartus wrote:

> Now you have me confused. I thought it was the DVD copy of your
> masterpiece which had the problems?

Material taken from a DVD, comprising small but vital parts of my,
hrhm, "masterpiece" (thanks) caused the problem. My entire
"masterpiece" never was on DVD and is very slow in getting there.

> > By the way, he couldn't figure out what went wrong with my DVD either
> > and he's done this for a living for years.
> >
>
> That surprises me. I would think a professional would pick the problem
> up straight away.

I know, apparently it's an anomaly of such rare and strange device that
it confounds not only the greatest minds online but professionals!

> > If it still doesn't work, I will re-edit the entire second tape (not
> > just the part that won't dub) in the computer so it will ALL be in
> > there, in order, assembled more neatly than was possible dubbing from
> > the camcorder, then output straight to VHS, but I hope this works and
> > it doesn't come to that.
> >
>
> So I have missed something else. Your friend is making copies for you
> from two parts, one part on DVD and one part on VHS? Why haven't you
> converted all your source material to the ONE format (DVD)?
>
> --
> Cheers
> Oldus Fartus

Well, as I explained before, I expended heartbreaking amounts of blood,
toil, sweat, and tears, to edit in iMovie a DVD that is, as far as I
can tell, less than 40 minutes long. I had never burned a DVD before
and didn't even know if I could make it work, so wanted to keep the DVD
footage to the minimum necessary and do all the rest on VHS. I
certainly couldn't see running ALL the material into iMovie and editing
the WHOLE four hours of footage there so I could burn a DVD of the
entire project--I'd have
DIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So I resorted to the quick, easy, and cheap, though not as neat,
method of dubbing most of the material to VHS straight from the
camcorder--doing only the "tricky parts" from the DVD, so I was
switching back and forth between them--and trusting my friend and his
great equipment to be able to produce a complete DVD copy--which he
nearly did--till he hit the material on the VHS tape taken from my
DVD--which has some awful demon spawn even communicated to VHS COPIES
of my original! Thank God I DIDN'T do the whole thing on DVD--if it
would have done the same thing, my friend would have made a VHS copy
(since, as I explained, due to the nature of his equipment he can dub
directly from VHS to VHS but to DVD only from VHS) and not been able to
dub ANY OF IT, and NO ONE could have produced a copy that would
(though, true, *if* it had all been in the computer I *could* output
straight to VHS which I plan to do on all future projects until such
time as this problem is ever located and resolved, but I couldn't have
known that when I started four months ago!)

If the professional's "fix" does not work, I will repent and edit
everything (at least of part 2, which is the "problem section,") on the
computer, though I'm experiencing doubts regarding iMovie. I told him
some of the stuff it pulled on me (which was the reason it took four
months to edit under forty minutes' worth of material) and he said he
"tried iMovie once and didn't care for it." He has a PC, though, not a
Mac, so I'm trying to learn video editing alternatives for Mac users
without breaking the bank. (Okay, the bank was broken when I dropped
$1,100.00 and counting on all this, but I mean any MORE of the bank.)
His try of iMovie would have been years ago, and of course the copy I
used was outdated (3.0.3) so perhaps it's cleaned up its act
considerably since then.

Cori

[Gnarlodious]

Entity cmashiel...@hotmail.com uttered this profundity:

> Material taken from a DVD, comprising small but vital parts of my,
> hrhm, "masterpiece" (thanks) caused the problem.

Idiot. The real "problem" was you. When you lied all those helpful people
into helping you steal copyrighted material, then you called it a " HORRIBLE
REVOLTING DEVELOPMENT!!!"

Mental Midget.

You're plonked.

-- Gnarlie
http://Gnarlodious.com/

[J. Clarke]

cmashiel...@hotmail.com wrote:

If you've got recent enough hardware to run it well, you might want to risk
the 80 bucks for the latest iLife, that gets you the current version.
Beyond that there don't seem to be any real options on the Mac other than
Final Cut.

If bringing it all into the computer and editing there is as unpleasant a
thought as you say then you have the wrong hardware and/or software. That
is _exactly_ the technique that people who do such things for a living use
these days--it's called "nonlinear editing"--and if it took four months to
edit 40 minutes of material then TV stations would not be able to put the
news on every night.

>
> Cori

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

[Oldus Fartus]

cmashiel...@hotmail.com wrote:

I can appreciate your frustration, particularly after spending such a
considerable amount of money and time to achieve your aims, but
unfortunately the fact still remains you are doing something wrong. It
is not the equipment you are using, nor the software.

I would recommend going right back to the beginning, and as I suggested
earlier, do your project in small, easy to manage chunks of no longer
than fifteen minutes or so. Get them right, then go onto the next
segment. Only when you have completed all the segments go to authoring
your finished product, which at four hours will require two DVDs. At
this stage I wouldn't worry about VHS copies. Concentrate on getting
the video into the computer, edited, and saved in the correct format for
burning to DVD. Until you can get that right, then nothing is going to
work properly, and you might just as well connect your camcorder to your
recorder and bypass the computer altogether.

--
Cheers
Oldus Fartus

[Bill Vermillion]

In article <4440aeff$0$25999$5a62...@per-qv1-newsreader-01.iinet.net.au>,

Oldus Fartus <deni...@iiNOSPAMnet.net.au> wrote:
>cmashiel...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday I took the VHS tape to my friend who is a professional
>> videographer. He said the tape would take real time (two hours) to
>> transfer to his equipment, then SIX HOURS to "encode." Whatever he
>> does ought to either make ALL of it work for my friend doing the
>> duplicates, or NONE of it!
>>
>
>Now you have me confused. I thought it was the DVD copy of your
>masterpiece which had the problems?
>
>> By the way, he couldn't figure out what went wrong with my DVD either
>> and he's done this for a living for years.

>That surprises me. I would think a professional would pick the problem
>up straight away.

But he didn't know EXACTLY ever step that Cori took to get to the
end-point. And without that you can never be sure when all you
see is the problem.

Bill
--
Bill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

Bill Vermillion wrote:

> >> By the way, he couldn't figure out what went wrong with my DVD either
> >> and he's done this for a living for years.
>
> >That surprises me. I would think a professional would pick the problem
> >up straight away.
>
> But he didn't know EXACTLY ever step that Cori took to get to the
> end-point. And without that you can never be sure when all you
> see is the problem.
>
> Bill

Yeah, I emailed him a link to a discussion on my problems with this.
He didn't read the email. I emailed him again today pointing out that
someone on the other discussion cited Macrovision on my DVD as the
probable cause, and saying that with the proper equipment Macrovision
can be detected on the material dubbed from the DVD by testing the VHS
tape. I will follow this up with a phone call.

Cori

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

Not to borrow trouble, but there's another reason I hope my
professional friend's solution works. If I have to redo the entire
second half of the project, either in iMovie or in another editing
program, I'm probably screwed no matter what. The reason being, iMovie
3.0.3 had all these bugs, such as the phantom sound I never got rid
of--I simply pasted in eight minutes of black to cover over the bad
spot on the timeline which seemingly couldn't be fixed!

What's more, I never found a way to export the edited material ONLY
from an iMovie Project to a new iMovie Project to start over. In the
export/import process, iMovie 3.0.3 breaks it all into separate clips,
in its OWN order, so all the king's horses and all the king's men,
could not get what I edited back together again. The ONLY way I found
to duplicate the material, either in iMovie OR on DVD, was make an
EXACT COPY of the WHOLE project--bugs and all! Another big reason I
wanted to edit only a brief necessary bit in iMovie, and not do ANY
movies all the way through until I have a MUCH better program!

Now, if I upgrade to iMovie 6, I'm probably still screwed as it will
scramble or undo something I did in iMovie 3, so I may lose my editing
and STILL not be able to get rid of the bugs! So I really hope my
friend transferring and reencoding the material works!

Cori

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

P. S. My professional friend called that the DVD is done. I'm trying
to get him to look at this discussion before I pick it up. I also left
a message on the machine of the friend doing the duplicating, as I'm
danged if I'm driving 30 miles out and 25 miles back (to his house
which is between my and the other guy's places) in the rain to pick it
up and deliver it to him if he's not even going to be home.

Cori

[Mike Fields]

<cmashiel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1145038300.0...@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

> Warren Oates wrote:
>> In article <1144967822....@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>> cmashiel...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > I plan to email
>> > him in about 8 and a half hours, just as soon as the 13th is over.
>> > Sure, it will be Friday then, but I consider Friday much less of a
>> > jinx
>> > than the 13th, so will take my chances.
>>
>> It's really difficult to take you seriously when you blame some
>> mystical
>> external force for your problems. How are you at picking lottery
>> numbers?
>
> Hey, Warren. I was wondering when you'd get in on it. Yes, that's my
> response when events are inexplicable. "Somebody or something is out
> to get me," or "Somebody or something is out to get someone and this
> time it's my turn." (I do the same thing when good things happen,
> though.)
>

> Cori
>

Are there any Black Helicopters in the video at that point ??? ;-)

[cmashiel...@hotmail.com]

Warren Oates wrote:
> In article <C06645CA.18197%gnarl...@yahoo.com>,

> Gnarlodious <gnarl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Mental Midget.
> >
> > You're plonked.
>

> Having a bad day are we dear?
> --
> W. Oates

Where does he get this? Every bit of material was all taped in my own
hometown on a camera I own!

Cori

[Gene E. Bloch]

On 4/17/2006, Warren Oates posted this:

> maybe he whoreks for the MPIAA

I love that verb :-)

May I steal it from you?

Gino

--
Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
letters617blochg3251
(replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")

[Bob]

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:02:02 -0400, Warren Oates
<warren...@gmail.com> wrote:

Teal'c: He is concealing something.
O'Neil: Like what?
Teal'c: I am unsure, he is concealing it.
O'Neil: Indeed!

--

"A politician's neck should always have a noose around it.
It keeps him upright."
-Robert Heinlein

[Bob]

On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:53:38 -0700, Gene E. Bloch
<spam...@nobody.invalid> wrote:

>> maybe he whoreks for the MPIAA

>I love that verb :-)

>May I steal it from you?

Only if you pay me a $25,000 license fee.

Otherwise I will buy a congressman and have him slip in some obscure
law on an appropriations bill that will make you a criminal if you
don't pay me.

[Gene E. Bloch]

On 4/18/2006, Bob posted this:

> On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:53:38 -0700, Gene E. Bloch
> <spam...@nobody.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> maybe he whoreks for the MPIAA
>
>> I love that verb :-)
>
>> May I steal it from you?
>
> Only if you pay me a $25,000 license fee.
>
> Otherwise I will buy a congressman and have him slip in some obscure
> law on an appropriations bill that will make you a criminal if you
> don't pay me.

:-)