Six Things to Know about HDTV (and I have to)
Derek Janssen
on where that over-air/cable HD programming is really coming from and
whether you're getting it, for beginners:
http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/are-you-sure-youre-watching-hdtv.html
Nice basics--
So, to spare me asking some underpaid Best Buy employee, and go straight
for the niche geeks with my questions:
I have neither the funding nor inclination to get satellite or digital
cable (Netflix people don't *do* on-demand PPV), pretty much just want
to invest in a large-screen for future post-'09 compatibility, use it
chiefly as a monitor for whatever (coughbluafteroctober) hi-def disk
player I end up buying the same year, and maybe tune in on whatever
over-air HD programming wanders by...Oh, and small apartment, so it's
only going to be 40" LCD, if that, tops.
--SO--
Question: If I see a letterboxed PBS documentary with that fancy "This
show is filmed in Hi-Def" intro, or I see Jay Leno or Conan O'Brien on a
big cavernous widescreen studio on NBC--both over normal
basic-cable--*and* I have a tuner-ready set kicked in, may I assume I'd
be watching those as nature intended?
(And that's assuming the cable connection is direct, and not through my
old component-VCR.)
Derek Janssen (sometimes you have to roll up your jeans and wade in the
geek pool knee deep) :)
eja...@comcast.net
Doug Jacobs
> By way of Yahoo News, Audioholics published a For-Dummies guide column
> on where that over-air/cable HD programming is really coming from and
> whether you're getting it, for beginners:
> http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/are-you-sure-youre-watching-hdtv.html
Good article. I especially liked the not-so-subtle bash against the HD
DVD formats...
> Nice basics--
> So, to spare me asking some underpaid Best Buy employee, and go straight
> for the niche geeks with my questions:
> I have neither the funding nor inclination to get satellite or digital
> cable (Netflix people don't *do* on-demand PPV), pretty much just want
> to invest in a large-screen for future post-'09 compatibility, use it
> chiefly as a monitor for whatever (coughbluafteroctober) hi-def disk
> player I end up buying the same year, and maybe tune in on whatever
> over-air HD programming wanders by...Oh, and small apartment, so it's
> only going to be 40" LCD, if that, tops.
Ok.
> --SO--
> Question: If I see a letterboxed PBS documentary with that fancy "This
> show is filmed in Hi-Def" intro, or I see Jay Leno or Conan O'Brien on a
> big cavernous widescreen studio on NBC--both over normal
> basic-cable--*and* I have a tuner-ready set kicked in, may I assume I'd
> be watching those as nature intended?
> (And that's assuming the cable connection is direct, and not through my
> old component-VCR.)
To watch HD, you have to be watching a HD channel. To my pleasant
surprise, my TV actually has built-in tuners to get unencrypted HD
channels through my plain old cable (CBS, FOX, etc.) On my TV, these
channels show up decimals. So, "2" is Fox, "2.1" is Fox in HD.
I'm not sure how it works for standard OTA antennas. We bought Grandma a
new TV for Christmas, and it also did HD, though Grandma only cares about
Oprah and her soaps. Her TV had separate inputs for HD and non-HD
antennas. I figure in '09 or so, we'll simply move the antenna connection
from the non-HD port to the HD one, and that should be it.
Also, be sure you know where your HD channels are being broadcast from.
For me, most of the HD channels are broadcast from San Francisco, even
though I live in Sunnyvale, about 45 miles SSE of there. I'd have to get
a pretty powerful, directional antenna - definitely not something that
would fit on top of the TV/entertainment unit, and definitely not
something I felt like spending that much money for.
If you have cable already, and your TV has a QAM tuner built into it (or
you can buy one separately), you may get the over-air HD channels your
cable provider carries without having to do anything more than simply
telling your TV to auto-program itself. (I believe this is a legal
requirement - not sure.)
--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.
JackShephard
<eja...@nospam.comcast.net> wrote:
> If I see a letterboxed PBS documentary with that fancy "This
>show is filmed in Hi-Def" intro, or I see Jay Leno or Conan O'Brien on a
>big cavernous widescreen studio on NBC--both over normal
>basic-cable--*and* I have a tuner-ready set kicked in, may I assume I'd
>be watching those as nature intended?
>(And that's assuming the cable connection is direct, and not through my
>old component-VCR.)
No. Cable cos fuck with their feeds ALL the time. So you'll never
know if they did or did not on any given program unless you call and ask
someone that actually knows, not the twit answering the phone.
Broadcast (over the air) PBS is always full resolution, least lossy
feed. From my area, all over the air feeds were the least lossy, and all
the cable co's "HD" feeds were typically fucked with.
JackShephard
wrote:
>To watch HD, you have to be watching a HD channel.
Wow... that was a tough one.
Jay G.
> pretty much just want to invest in a large-screen for future
> post-'09 compatibility.... it's only going to be 40" LCD,
> if that, tops.
Be sure to check the display's resolution. If you want to "future proof"
yourself, you'll want to get a 1080p display, not the cheaper and currently
more common 720p displays.
> If I see ...that fancy "This show is filmed in Hi-Def" intro..
> ..*and* I have a tuner-ready set kicked in, may I assume I'd
> be watching those as nature intended?
You don't want an "HD ready" set, you'll want one with a digital tuner
built in. All new models sold in the US are mandated by the FCC now to
include an ATSC tuner, which is the new OTA broadcast standard, so this
shouldn't be hard to find. Some may include a QAM tuner as well for
digital cable broadcast, but that's not something you're interested in.
You'll have to make sure you're watching via the digital tuner, since most
TVs still include a tuner for the old NTSC standard as well. You may have
to switch tuners manually, or the set may combine both analog and digital
channels to select from.
> (And that's assuming the cable connection is direct, and not through my
> old component-VCR.)
I don't see how having the antenna cable daisy-chained through your VCR
should affect the tuners, provided you don't have the VCR's RF modulator
engaged (the "TV/VCR" button).
-Jay
Derek Janssen
>
>>pretty much just want to invest in a large-screen for future
>>post-'09 compatibility.... it's only going to be 40" LCD,
>>if that, tops.
>
> Be sure to check the display's resolution. If you want to "future proof"
> yourself, you'll want to get a 1080p display, not the cheaper and currently
> more common 720p displays.
Is that going to be a compatability problem down the road?--
Particularly as
A) I've already mentioned the 40" max (and there aren't as many 1080p's
below that, as that's cramming a bit too much into one screen),
and
B) there's recently been some question as to whether the human eye can
actually *distinguish* 1080p apart from 780p. They're still not sure.
>>If I see ...that fancy "This show is filmed in Hi-Def" intro..
>>..*and* I have a tuner-ready set kicked in, may I assume I'd
>>be watching those as nature intended?
>
> You don't want an "HD ready" set, you'll want one with a digital tuner
> built in. All new models sold in the US are mandated by the FCC now to
> include an ATSC tuner, which is the new OTA broadcast standard, so this
> shouldn't be hard to find. Some may include a QAM tuner as well for
> digital cable broadcast, but that's not something you're interested in.
Our local system has the local network-HD channels up in the
digital-cable stratosphere along with the Discovery Channels and HBO, so
they may have me over a barrel there...I'll leave that open.
Derek Janssen
eja...@comcast.net
Aaron J. Bossig
news:TeydnWDYcu-coP_b...@comcast.com:
>> Be sure to check the display's resolution. If you want to "future
>> proof" yourself, you'll want to get a 1080p display, not the cheaper
>> and currently more common 720p displays.
>
> Is that going to be a compatability problem down the road?--
>
> Particularly as
> A) I've already mentioned the 40" max (and there aren't as many
> 1080p's below that, as that's cramming a bit too much into one
> screen), and
It's not impossible to find, by any means. I have a 37" LCD set
from Mitsubishi that's 1080p. I remember looking at models from
Sony, Samsung, Phillips, and Sharp which also did 1080p at under
40".
--
Aaron J. Bossig
Derek Janssen
>
>>>Be sure to check the display's resolution. If you want to "future
>>>proof" yourself, you'll want to get a 1080p display, not the cheaper
>>>and currently more common 720p displays.
>>
>>Is that going to be a compatability problem down the road?--
>>
>>Particularly as
>>A) I've already mentioned the 40" max (and there aren't as many
>>1080p's below that, as that's cramming a bit too much into one
>>screen), and
>
> It's not impossible to find, by any means. I have a 37" LCD set
> from Mitsubishi that's 1080p. I remember looking at models from
> Sony, Samsung, Phillips, and Sharp which also did 1080p at under
> 40".
I've seen them, and they're a jump up in price, which isn't an issue
this far off--
Thing is, although 60"+ screens need the high amount of resolution,
there's a point at which getting a "small" bigscreen with 1080 becomes
like getting an iPod with 1080: How much difference is it going to
MAKE?? ;)
Derek Janssen
eja...@comcast.net
Jay G.
> Jay G. wrote:
>>
>> Be sure to check the display's resolution. If you want to "future proof"
>> yourself, you'll want to get a 1080p display, not the cheaper and currently
>> more common 720p displays.
>
> Is that going to be a compatability problem down the road?--
Not a compatibility issue *per se*, since 720p HDTVs are capable of
receiving at least 1080i signals from the tuner, component, or digital
input and downconvert to it to the TV's native resolution. You just won't
be getting the fullest possible HD, so you'll likely want to upgrade a 720p
set faster than you would a 1080p set.
> Particularly as
> A) I've already mentioned the 40" max (and there aren't as many 1080p's
> below that, as that's cramming a bit too much into one screen),
TVs exist that are below 40" and are 1080p. Hell, there's HD projectors
that cram 1080p resolution onto an even smaller screen.
> B) there's recently been some question as to whether the human eye can
> actually *distinguish* 1080p apart from 780p. They're still not sure.
People can distinguish between anamorphic and non-anamorphic DVDs, and
that's only a 20% increase in resolution. 1080p is *twice* the resolution
than 720p, so it's definitely noticeable.
The important thing to notice the difference is to be close enough to see
it. This site can calculate how close you need to be to get the full
benefit of 1080 resolution.
http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html
>> Some may include a QAM tuner as well for
>> digital cable broadcast, but that's not something you're interested in.
>
> Our local system has the local network-HD channels up in the
> digital-cable stratosphere along with the Discovery Channels and HBO, so
> they may have me over a barrel there...I'll leave that open.
Locals typically look better OTA than over digital cable, provided you get
good reception. As for the others, you can always get a cable tuner later
on. Time Warner provides an HD DVR for no more cost than a regular digital
tuner.
-Jay
Aaron J. Bossig
>> It's not impossible to find, by any means. I have a 37" LCD set
>> from Mitsubishi that's 1080p. I remember looking at models from
>> Sony, Samsung, Phillips, and Sharp which also did 1080p at under
>> 40".
>
> I've seen them, and they're a jump up in price, which isn't an issue
> this far off--
> Thing is, although 60"+ screens need the high amount of resolution,
> there's a point at which getting a "small" bigscreen with 1080 becomes
> like getting an iPod with 1080: How much difference is it going to
> MAKE?? ;)
I'd say that point is well below 37", but YMMV.
Jordan
> --SO--
> Question: If I see a letterboxed PBS documentary with that fancy "This
> show is filmed in Hi-Def" intro, or I see Jay Leno or Conan O'Brien on a
> big cavernous widescreen studio on NBC--both over normal
> basic-cable--*and* I have a tuner-ready set kicked in, may I assume I'd
> be watching those as nature intended?
Rule #1 - Don't assume anything. :^)
I have an HDTV and an HD DVR box. The DVR is connected to my Comcast
cable as well as an antenna. When I tell it to look for channels it
scans both the antenna and the cable.
It turns out that Comcast is feeding HD channels even over basic
cable. For example:
My local PBS channel is 10. The HD PBS channel is 10.1 and then
there's a special PBS "Create" channel on 10.2. They also just added
some kind of local government channel on 10.3.
If you're watching a show on channel 10 then it's NOT HD. Even if it
says "available in HD", all that means is that if you want to watch it
in HD you have to flip over to 10.1 to see it in HD.
The same goes for network programming. Again, locally for me NBC is on
channel 8. The HD feed is on 8.1. 8.2 is an all local weather channel
from that same station. Conan O'Brian in SD? - Channel 8. Conan
O'Brian in HD? - Channel 8.1. Letterman in SD? Channel 6. Letterman in
HD? Channel 6.1.
Most HD televisions have an "info" button to tell you what resolution
the channel you're watching is being fed in. If it says 480i or 480p
then you aren't in HD land.
- Jordan
Derek Janssen
> On Jun 1, 1:31 pm, Derek Janssen <eja...@nospam.comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>--SO--
>>Question: If I see a letterboxed PBS documentary with that fancy "This
>>show is filmed in Hi-Def" intro, or I see Jay Leno or Conan O'Brien on a
>>big cavernous widescreen studio on NBC--both over normal
>>basic-cable--*and* I have a tuner-ready set kicked in, may I assume I'd
>>be watching those as nature intended?
>
>
> Rule #1 - Don't assume anything. :^)
>
> I have an HDTV and an HD DVR box. The DVR is connected to my Comcast
> cable as well as an antenna. When I tell it to look for channels it
> scans both the antenna and the cable.
>
> It turns out that Comcast is feeding HD channels even over basic
> cable. For example:
(Comcast, that's what we've got in our area--
And just *try* fighting off their efforts to sell you the digital
on-demand package, so no help asking them about basic-HD.)
> My local PBS channel is 10. The HD PBS channel is 10.1 and then
> there's a special PBS "Create" channel on 10.2. They also just added
> some kind of local government channel on 10.3.
> Most HD televisions have an "info" button to tell you what resolution
> the channel you're watching is being fed in. If it says 480i or 480p
> then you aren't in HD land.
Which (hopefully built-in) tuner would I be looking for WITHOUT the
HD-DVR box?
Up till now, I've always fed my standard-cable signals in through the
cable-ready VCR (which's why I've never gone for standard-DVR either),
as I like to skip the monthly box shakedown.
Derek Janssen (and if it seems like I'm stretching this out, remember,
one more on-topic post is one less by You-Know-Which-Jerk)
eja...@comcast.net
Jordan
> Which (hopefully built-in) tuner would I be looking for WITHOUT the
> HD-DVR box?
If your TV has a built in ATSC tuner then that's where you're going to
find your HD channels. My set didn't come with a built in tuner which
is why I use the DVR. Prior to the DVR I had an ATSC tuner/
upconverting DVD player combo unit. What make an model TV do you have?
> Up till now, I've always fed my standard-cable signals in through the
> cable-ready VCR (which's why I've never gone for standard-DVR either),
> as I like to skip the monthly box shakedown.
I can virtually guarantee that the VCR doesn't have an ATSC tuner in
it so it is not going to detect or tune HD channels.
- Jordan
Derek Janssen
>
>>Which (hopefully built-in) tuner would I be looking for WITHOUT the
>>HD-DVR box?
>
>
> If your TV has a built in ATSC tuner then that's where you're going to
> find your HD channels. My set didn't come with a built in tuner which
> is why I use the DVR. Prior to the DVR I had an ATSC tuner/
> upconverting DVD player combo unit. What make an model TV do you have?
As for HD, none yet.
As for standard, one of the new digital "flat tube" Toshibas (not
flatscreen or WS), with YCbCr capability from approx. two or three years
ago.
(Unless you want the make and model #.)
Derek Janssen
eja...@comcast.net
Jordan
> As for HD, none yet.
Gotcha. So when you go for an HDTV make sure it comes with it's own
ATSC tuner. When you search for channels you will find digital
channels typically are on the x.x format.
My channel lineup looks like this, all are SD unless marked HD.
2 (ABC)
2.1 (ABC HD)
3 (the CW)
4 (TV Guide Channel)
5 (PAX / ION)
6 (CBS)
6.1 (CBS HD)
6.2 (I haven't figured out the purpose for this one, appears to be a
dupe of 6.1)
7 (Discovery channel)
8 (NBC)
8.1 (NBC HD)
8.2 (Local NBC weather channel)
9 (WGN)
10 (PBS)
10.1 (PBS HD)
10.2 (PBS Create)
10.3 (PBS local government)
The interesting thing is that 10 and 10.1 have unique programming.
It's not a simple matter of having an SD and HD version of the same
channel the way ABC, CBS and NBC are. Right now they overlap (showing
"Nature" in SD and HD) but at 9 PM Pacific the SD channel changes to
Mystery! while the HD channel becomes "Craft in America".
All of these channels were detected over my standard basic cable. I
don't have Comcast's digital package or anything like that. There are
more than I list here, I just thought the first 10 show what I'm
talking about.
- Jordan
JackShephard
>The interesting thing is that 10 and 10.1 have unique programming.
>It's not a simple matter of having an SD and HD version of the same
>channel the way ABC, CBS and NBC are. Right now they overlap (showing
>"Nature" in SD and HD) but at 9 PM Pacific the SD channel changes to
>Mystery! while the HD channel becomes "Craft in America".
>
>All of these channels were detected over my standard basic cable. I
>don't have Comcast's digital package or anything like that. There are
>more than I list here, I just thought the first 10 show what I'm
>talking about.
>
>- Jordan
You forgot one other channel type designation.
Most city's PBS carrier has multiple channels. A standard broadcast, a
"digital" broadcast in standard aspect, and an HD digital broadcast.
All three can carry different programming at any given time. Your city
also happens to have a fourth PBS broadcast, likely digital (as all the
channels not able to be received by a standard tuner are).
Derek Janssen
> On Sun, 03 Jun 2007 20:12:47 -0700, Jordan <lu...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>All of these channels were detected over my standard basic cable. I
>>don't have Comcast's digital package or anything like that. There are
>>more than I list here, I just thought the first 10 show what I'm
>>talking about.
>
> You forgot one other channel type designation.
>
> Most city's PBS carrier has multiple channels. A standard broadcast, a
> "digital" broadcast in standard aspect, and an HD digital broadcast.
(...Look, it's a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT poster! And he CARES about
topic!) ;)
Derek Janssen (well, I'M convinced!)
eja...@comcast.net
JackShephard
Fuck you, dickhead. If you can't read the headers to see when some
lame fuck from auk is cloning and forging posts in someone else's name,
you have no business making any fucktard assessments.
Doug Jacobs
> I've seen them, and they're a jump up in price, which isn't an issue
> this far off--
> Thing is, although 60"+ screens need the high amount of resolution,
> there's a point at which getting a "small" bigscreen with 1080 becomes
> like getting an iPod with 1080: How much difference is it going to
> MAKE?? ;)
I wouldn't worry about the 720p vs. 1080p thing. For one thing, there
really isn't much difference between 720p and 1080p, and on a smaller
screen (45" or smaller), the difference is going to be even less apparent.
Furthermore, most TV/cable stations are only in 720p anyways, with only a
few using 1080i. It'll be quite a while before everyone switches to 1080p.
I think 720p should be fine - just make sure it's really 720p, and not
something odd like 768, which tries to do a fakey 1080i... I'd just go
with true 720p or 1080p (if you don't mind the extra price) - skip 1080i
entirely.
Doug Jacobs
> People can distinguish between anamorphic and non-anamorphic DVDs, and
> that's only a 20% increase in resolution. 1080p is *twice* the resolution
> than 720p, so it's definitely noticeable.
But that also assumes that the TV itself isn't upscaling. I have a 1080p
set, however, it upscales everything to 1080p regardless of the source
material and signal. So, on it, there's virtually no difference between
720p and 1080p.
Most source material is going to be at 720p, unless you plan on heavily
investing in Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. So, even a 720p set which will downscale
1080i/1080p signals will still look great.
Doug Jacobs
> (Comcast, that's what we've got in our area--
> And just *try* fighting off their efforts to sell you the digital
> on-demand package, so no help asking them about basic-HD.)
I get the OTA HD channels through my plain old, non-digital, cable
connection. True, I don't get DiscoveryHD, or FoodNetworkHD, but I do get
ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, and about 5 PBS HD channels. For awhile, I even got
History Channel (non-HD, but was channel 69.3?) and I still get a bunch of
the stupid "digital music" channels which sound worse than my regular
radio. And Comcast wants you to PAY for that service?
> Which (hopefully built-in) tuner would I be looking for WITHOUT the
> HD-DVR box?
> Up till now, I've always fed my standard-cable signals in through the
> cable-ready VCR (which's why I've never gone for standard-DVR either),
> as I like to skip the monthly box shakedown.
Look for a set that has a QAM tuner. That should allow you to get the
local OTA HD stations through your regular cable without needing "digital
cable", or an upgrade to "HD". Just remember, if you have a non-HD-DVR,
you'll need to use a good quality splitter (and maybe one with a signal
booster built into it) so you can plug the cable into your TV for HDTV,
and your DVR for recording non-HD channels.
You can also purchase an external QAM tuner, unfortunately most seem to do
stupid things like HD->Composite/Svideo, meaning they're intended for the
eventual switchover circa 2009 or so when all OTA TV signals will go HD
but folks like Grandma don't want to buy a new TV.
At least, that's all my friend has been able to find. He's in an
apartment building, facing the "wrong" way for his HD antenna to pickup
anything, but he does have cable.
JackShephard
wrote:
>skip 1080i
>entirely.
There are NO 1080i LCD displays.
ALL LCD displays are PROGRESSIVE, idiot.
Doug Jacobs
> There are NO 1080i LCD displays.
I'm sorry, but Westinghouse says otherwise:
http://www.westinghousedigital.com/details.aspx?itemnum=71
> ALL LCD displays are PROGRESSIVE, idiot.
Do us a favor and learn a little about "native resolution" vs. "supported
resolution", ok? Thanks.
Jay G.
> JackShephard <SomewhereOnT...@sumplaceintime.org> wrote:
>
>> There are NO 1080i LCD displays.
>
> I'm sorry, but Westinghouse says otherwise:
> http://www.westinghousedigital.com/details.aspx?itemnum=71
That's a 720p display (well, technically a 1366 x 768 display, but 720p is
the closest HD resolution). The 1080i listed in the specs is a "supported
format" that it can accept as an input, but it's not what it outputs. It
outputs a 720p image, no matter what the input is.
> > ALL LCD displays are PROGRESSIVE, idiot.
>
> Do us a favor and learn a little about "native resolution" vs. "supported
> resolution", ok? Thanks.
The native resolution is the one that people are talking about when they're
talking about 720p vs. 1080p LCD displays. Using "supported resolution"
would be worthless, since pretty much all 720p displays support 1080i, and
many 1080p displays only support up to 1080i as an input, and not 1080p.
-Jay
Jay G.
> I wouldn't worry about the 720p vs. 1080p thing. For one thing, there
> really isn't much difference between 720p and 1080p,
The difference between 720p and 1080p is 200%, much more than the 20%
difference that anamorphic enhancement on DVDs provide.
> ...on a smaller screen (45" or smaller), the difference is going to
> be even less apparent.
This is really the only thing you got (half-way) right. Screen size,
relative to viewing distance, is going to affect whether or not the
increase in resolution anyway.
> Furthermore, most TV/cable stations are only in 720p anyways, with only a
> few using 1080i. It'll be quite a while before everyone switches to 1080p.
There's plenty of stuff being shown in 1080i now. And again, I was
speaking in terms of "future-proofing" his purchase, as Derek was looking
for a TV that would be able to serve him well past 2009.
> I think 720p should be fine - just make sure it's really 720p, and not
> something odd like 768..
Most "720p" LCD TV sets are really 768, or to be more technical, 1366x768.
It's a compromise resolution between the 1280x720 of HD and the 1024x768 of
the XGA monitor resolution. Thus the screen has enough pixels to display
both resolutions, and in the correct aspect ratio for each.
It's not really a problem, since the TV just upconverts the 1280x720 HD
signal slightly.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/04/21/whats-the-deal-with-1366-x-768/
> [768] tries to do a fakey 1080i...
This is just wrong on so many levels.
-Jay
Jay G.
> Jay G. <J...@tmbg.org> wrote:
>
>> People can distinguish between anamorphic and non-anamorphic DVDs, and
>> that's only a 20% increase in resolution. 1080p is *twice* the resolution
>> than 720p, so it's definitely noticeable.
>
> But that also assumes that the TV itself isn't upscaling. I have a 1080p
> set, however, it upscales everything to 1080p regardless of the source
> material and signal. So, on it, there's virtually no difference between
> 720p and 1080p.
Well, you're saying that because you're viewing it on a 1080p *set*. If
you put a 720p and 1080p set of the same size side-by side, the 720
*signal* is probably going to look better on the 1080p set than on the 720p
set with the same native resolution as the signal, due to the upconversion.
And a 1080 signal is *definitely* going to look better on the native
resolution 1080p set than it will look *downconverted* on the 720p set.
So 1080p is better no matter what HD resolution you're looking at.
> Most source material is going to be at 720p, unless you plan on heavily
> investing in Blu-Ray/HD-DVD.
Derek mentioned in his original post he was going to buy into BD in the
near future.
> So, even a 720p set which will downscale
> 1080i/1080p signals will still look great.
Oh, no question there. A 720p set is still 3x more resolution than a
standard definition set, and HD programming is going to look that much
better on it. If all you can afford is a 720p set, than buy one; just
don't expect yourself to not want to upgrade again before the set gives out
on you.
-Jay
Doug Jacobs
> Well, you're saying that because you're viewing it on a 1080p *set*. If
> you put a 720p and 1080p set of the same size side-by side, the 720
> *signal* is probably going to look better on the 1080p set than on the 720p
> set with the same native resolution as the signal, due to the upconversion.
Will there really be that much of a difference in picture quality?
Especially on the size of screen Derek's looking for? If anything, I'd
guess the 720p set would look better because it wouldn't be introducing
extra data into the picture that wasn't originally there.
> And a 1080 signal is *definitely* going to look better on the native
> resolution 1080p set than it will look *downconverted* on the 720p set.
No argument here.
> > So, even a 720p set which will downscale
> > 1080i/1080p signals will still look great.
> Oh, no question there. A 720p set is still 3x more resolution than a
> standard definition set, and HD programming is going to look that much
> better on it. If all you can afford is a 720p set, than buy one; just
> don't expect yourself to not want to upgrade again before the set gives out
> on you.
Well, things in the HD standards department are still a little fuzzy with
regards to the HDMI interface and such. This was one of the reasons I was
originally just going to go with a cheaper 720p set, but then I came
across a sale that put a 1080p display into my price range. Wife was a
little worried about how much the set cost, until I turned it on.
"......wow......"
JackShephard
wrote:
>JackShephard <SomewhereOnT...@sumplaceintime.org> wrote:
Look, dumbfuck... LCD panels are NOT CRTs and there is no interlaced
scanning of LCD panels, you fucking idiot! They are ALL filled frame for
frame, non interlaced.
unclejr
<SomewhereOnTheLOSTIsl...@Sumplaceintime.org> wrote:
> Look, dumbfuck... LCD panels are NOT CRTs and there is no interlaced
> scanning of LCD panels, you fucking idiot! They are ALL filled frame for
> frame, non interlaced.
DARKMATTER... Is that you?
-Junior
Doug Jacobs
> DARKMATTER... Is that you?
Darkmatter, massiveprong, whatever else it decided to call itself, makes
no difference.
Jay G.
> Jay G. <J...@tmbg.org> wrote:
>
>> Well, you're saying that because you're viewing it on a 1080p *set*. If
>> you put a 720p and 1080p set of the same size side-by side, the 720
>> *signal* is probably going to look better on the 1080p set than on the 720p
>> set with the same native resolution as the signal, due to the upconversion.
>
> Will there really be that much of a difference in picture quality?
> Especially on the size of screen Derek's looking for?
Again, it depends on the specific size of the display he gets and the
specific distance away from the screen he'll be viewing it from.
I've already posted this link before:
http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html
However, this article may be of interest as well:
http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/
> If anything, I'd guess the 720p set would look better because it
> wouldn't be introducing extra data into the picture that wasn't
> originally there.
The rush for upconverting DVD players, as well as people's testimonies of
upconverted DVDs on HD screens, all contradict your statement. The "extra
data [added] into the picture that wasn't originally there" doesn't take
away any of the information from the original image, and makes the image at
least appear sharper and more detailed, as you have acknowledged with your
statements about upconverted 720p on your 1080p set.
>> Oh, no question there. A 720p set is still 3x more resolution than a
>> standard definition set, and HD programming is going to look that much
>> better on it. If all you can afford is a 720p set, than buy one; just
>> don't expect yourself to not want to upgrade again before the set gives out
>> on you.
>
> Well, things in the HD standards department are still a little fuzzy with
> regards to the HDMI interface and such.
The HDMI interface is 100% backwards compatible, and the newest revision,
HDMI 1.3, has been in existence for a year now and covers most of what any
person should need from a digital connection.
ATSC has been standardized for about a decade now.
There's still possibly a few tweaks to various smaller matters, such as
making more TVs that are capable of accepting 1080p as an input. However,
I don't really see anything on the horizon that will make one want to throw
out a recent model TV because of input issues.
-Jay
Richard C.
news:1368v13...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Look for a set that has a QAM tuner. That should allow you to get the
> local OTA HD stations through your regular cable without needing "digital
> cable", or an upgrade to "HD".
QAM does not get OTA.
It will allow you to get the local HD stations via cable.
You need an ATSC to get OTA HD.
=========================
>Just remember, if you have a non-HD-DVR,
> you'll need to use a good quality splitter (and maybe one with a signal
> booster built into it) so you can plug the cable into your TV for HDTV,
> and your DVR for recording non-HD channels.
>
> You can also purchase an external QAM tuner, unfortunately most seem to do
> stupid things like HD->Composite/Svideo, meaning they're intended for the
> eventual switchover circa 2009 or so when all OTA TV signals will go HD
> but folks like Grandma don't want to buy a new TV.
>
==============================
Once again, QAM is a CABLE tuner, not an OTA tuner.
===============================
Geena Phillips
> Jordan wrote:
>
>> On Jun 1, 1:31 pm, Derek Janssen <eja...@nospam.comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> --SO--
>>> Question: If I see a letterboxed PBS documentary with that fancy "This
>>> show is filmed in Hi-Def" intro, or I see Jay Leno or Conan O'Brien on a
>>> big cavernous widescreen studio on NBC--both over normal
>>> basic-cable--*and* I have a tuner-ready set kicked in, may I assume I'd
>>> be watching those as nature intended?
>>
>>
>> Rule #1 - Don't assume anything. :^)
>>
>> I have an HDTV and an HD DVR box. The DVR is connected to my Comcast
>> cable as well as an antenna. When I tell it to look for channels it
>> scans both the antenna and the cable.
>>
>> It turns out that Comcast is feeding HD channels even over basic
>> cable. For example:
>
> (Comcast, that's what we've got in our area--
> And just *try* fighting off their efforts to sell you the digital
> on-demand package, so no help asking them about basic-HD.)
Derek, I have to tell ya; while I don't buy On Demand movies, the free
stuff Comcast has in On Demand has some pretty neat tidbits. Under
"Something Weird," there's old school scare films and strange, forgotten
cartoons I might not catch otherwise. If you've got a friend with it,
maybe you could peruse their offerings and see if anything appeals to
you. The fact that the box receives HD (which I don't have yet) is just
a bonus.
P.S. Having a DVR has changed my TV-watching habits for life (for the
better!).
--
--
Well, whaddaya know? War WAS the answer, after all. Go figure.
A lone Micronaut lost in a world of Star Wars action figures,
(The Excessively Parenthetical) Geena-- Worrier Princess
"Reciprocity... is the key to every relationship."
--LAPD Capt. Dudley Smith (James Cromwell), in L.A. Confidential
"Andy Warhol once said that everyone would be famous for fifteen
minutes. The unfortunate corollary is that everyone will also appear in
a Freddie Prinze, Jr. movie for fifteen minutes."
--me
"This is like driving a Rolls Royce, naked, in mink underpants."
--Tony Bourdain
"You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it
helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons,
but at the very least you need a beer."
-- Frank Zappa
"I'm not sayin' it's the best thing in the world FOR ya; I'm just sayin'
it's the best thing in the world."
-- Alton Brown
"The most preposterous notion that H. sapiens has ever dreamed up is
that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of all the Universes,
wants the saccharine adoration of His creatures, can be swayed by their
prayers, and becomes petulant if He does not receive this flattery. Yet
this absurd fantasy, without a shred of evidence to bolster it, pays all
the expenses of the oldest, largest, and least productive industry in
all history."
-- Robert Heinlein
Geena Phillips
Wow. YOU'RE helpful. >PLONK<