Convert VHS to DVD
Mobius
the video capture & get picture problems such as the video freezing while a
thin strip across the top continues to go (its as if the first frame of this
problem has about the bottom 450 lines of the 480 stay the same or same loop
of a few frames while the top 30 lines continue to capture), or have jerky
video, or have lines throught he picture. I did this on 2 computers each
with different cards (ATI AIW Radeon 7500 & AIW Radeon 9800), each with
WinXP. I know I used to not have this problem with capture of just regular
TV (the TV cable line isn't working at the moment & I've not had a chance to
fix it, so cant test that right now, only composit in). Also when tested
this on my AIW-9800 about 30 seconds or less into the video I got an error
saying the video is protected & while it can be displayed it can not be
recorded. Considering that the display is OK as the TV software (or real
TV) I'm sure its not a problem with the VCR or cabling, but possibly copy
protection. Am I likely right? If so, how do I get this from easilly
damagable/will be lost over time VHS to a more sturdy & more convenient &
space (size) saving DVD? (Though I understand the need for copy protection,
I hate it for reasons like this....converting a VHS to DVD for someone
should not be illegal, as you're just making a backup & one that is more
convenient to use, chapters rather than fast-forward/rewinding, taking a
certain few audio parts they like & including them as extra features on the
DVD...stuff like that.)
I've not yet tested this with a home-recorded VHS (recorded something off of
TV for example), only factory made VHS tapes.
Biz
exists is taht for every legitimate person that wants to make backup copies
of their stuff, there are 2 people trying to make copies of stuff they do
not own or have no right to copy...and half of those are trying to sell
those copies....
"Mobius" <com DOT yahoo AT m0b1us0099> wrote in message
news:iLKdnUTXJ53...@giganews.com...
Mark Burns
on this group have in the past recommended the Hauppauge and ADS.
Never ATI.
http://www.meritline.com/ads-usb-instant-tv-usbav-704-video-capture.html
http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_pvrusb2.html
I use the Pinnacle Movie Box USB 2.0 for the past 20 months.
Macrovision does not affect mine.
This device works with DVD Recorders:
http://www.netbored.com/postproduction/CT2.htm
Several on the group use it with very good success between a VHS player
and a DVD recorder..
I would think that it would also work with ATI. No direct knowledge
here. I was steered away from the ATI Wonder that I was thinking about
when I got into this a couple of years ago. The quote was: "Never buy
anything with Wonder in the title". Nothing wrong with their pure
video cards though.
If you own the VHS, then you are entitiled to back it up. It is the
performance that is copyrighted, not the cassette. As long as the
original VHS and the DVD are will not be shown simultaneously, then
there is no violation of copyright. Also, VHS to DVD is not covered by
DMCA as VHS is analog.
I personally do not understand the need for copy protection such as
Macrovision. There is no evidence that Macrovision has stopped the
piracy of anything. Lower prices has only increased sales and revenue
while discouraging piracy. The piracy that the MPA is most worried
about is the taping of films being broadcast in theatres. That is
where the money is, providing products to people who cannot acquire
them legally. People would simply rather pay a fair and affordable
price for quality products from reputable sellers. This is why we are
seeing the window narrow from the theatrical run of a film to its
legitimate availability on DVD.
Cheers...
Mobius
news:1124595457.1...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> ATI is notorious for not being able to record macrovision tapes. Most
> on this group have in the past recommended the Hauppauge and ADS.
> Never ATI.
>
> http://www.meritline.com/ads-usb-instant-tv-usbav-704-video-capture.html
>
> http://www.hauppauge.com/pages/products/data_pvrusb2.html
>
> I use the Pinnacle Movie Box USB 2.0 for the past 20 months.
> Macrovision does not affect mine.
>
> http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSite/us/Products/Consumer+Products/Home+Video/Studio+Family/Studio+MovieBox+USB+version+9
>
> This device works with DVD Recorders:
>
> http://www.netbored.com/postproduction/CT2.htm
>
> Several on the group use it with very good success between a VHS player
> and a DVD recorder..
>
> I would think that it would also work with ATI. No direct knowledge
> here. I was steered away from the ATI Wonder that I was thinking about
> when I got into this a couple of years ago. The quote was: "Never buy
> anything with Wonder in the title". Nothing wrong with their pure
> video cards though.
>
Yes I dont see any reason something that can prevent a problem with another
device (probably by stripping the copy protection out? Just re-rendering the
picture?) would be stopped by something else. Is the copy protection
hardware based (that the ATI card's firmware is what is preventing this) or
just software based? If its software there should be an easy work around.
> If you own the VHS, then you are entitiled to back it up. It is the
> performance that is copyrighted, not the cassette. As long as the
> original VHS and the DVD are will not be shown simultaneously, then
> there is no violation of copyright. Also, VHS to DVD is not covered by
> DMCA as VHS is analog.
>
And I'm glad for that too! (Nice loop-hole.) I just personally prefer DVD
as well....I'll even just for convienence rip a DVD set & put together a
single (or double) DVD of that set of movies. I plan on doing StarWars1-3
on a single disk, just as I've got 4-6 on a single disk)...Its just easier
to work with when quality isn't the main concern (no disk swapping....after
all for example that the Lord of the Rings can not be played on a DVD player
by in one sitting...at least none that I've seen support 6 disks..ripping &
compressing them into what is basically an MPEG2 version of VCD (same
resolution, just the 48KHz audio DVD needs & MPEG2) will allow for fitting
the entire set (including "The Hobbit") into a 2 disk movie (Hobbit & LOTR1
+ LOTR2&3, extended editions)...Now isn't that much easier for someone who
is actually going to sit through 14hrs of movies (#0-3) & dont want to have
to swap disks (OK maybe you've got the food/drink with you & a 5 gallon
bucket in front of you, so no need to get up)?
> I personally do not understand the need for copy protection such as
> Macrovision. There is no evidence that Macrovision has stopped the
> piracy of anything. Lower prices has only increased sales and revenue
> while discouraging piracy. The piracy that the MPA is most worried
> about is the taping of films being broadcast in theatres. That is
> where the money is, providing products to people who cannot acquire
> them legally. People would simply rather pay a fair and affordable
> price for quality products from reputable sellers. This is why we are
> seeing the window narrow from the theatrical run of a film to its
> legitimate availability on DVD.
>
I agree, while I understand the overall need for copy protection, & that you
cant really not allow it at all (unfortuantely we're subject to a "group
punnishment" situation). I agree that movie piracy should not be a profit,
or even used for a way to get something for free. I do support it when the
individual is given the movie at no cost to them & if they could not have
seen it otherwise, because in that situation nothing is really being lost or
not made. Thats also why I dont mind converting movies to DVD or backing up
CDs for someone (usually friends, & for free or the cost of the disk...a
friend of mine has me make backups of stuff for them allot & bought me a 100
spool to do it with).
> Cheers...
>
Buchetamo
more than I really need. I also have a collection of VHS, specially
documentaries, that I want to convert to DVD. Some research I did indicated
I needed to buy a "box" either made by Pinnacle (Dazzle or Movie Box) or
Hauppauge or Canopus all a bit expensive. Until someone recommended a box
I'd never heard of , I bought it & yesterday I completed my first
"conversion"from VHS to DVD without a hitch. The box in question is a St Lab
USB 2.0 TV Box- Multiple Input Source & Real Time Recording (including
S-VHS, VCD, DVD camcorders & obviously direct from TV) it also includes FM
Radio!! Supports NTSC, PAL & SECAM. Recording format:
AVI/MEPG1/MPEG2/MPEG4/Hi-MPEG2.
I paid for it AU$85 which is around US$63...
"Mobius" <com DOT yahoo AT m0b1us0099> wrote in message
news:iLKdnUTXJ53...@giganews.com...
Mark Burns
an onboard hardware mpeg-2 encoder.
Mobius
> For analog capture, what is important is that the capture device have
> an onboard hardware mpeg-2 encoder.
>
Mark Burns
Probably at that price not, though.
Without the hardware encoder, the processor on the computer must do the
conversion. That means that there cannot be enough interruptions to
Windows to interfere with the capture of the audio and video frames.
With an onboard encoder, the processor of the capture device is
dedicated to the capture/encode, and nothing else. The computer must
still record the frames on the hard drive, but that can be buffered and
is trivial compared to the capture and encode work that is being done.
Cheers...
Alan Shepherd
reasonable quality without dropping any frames, and manage to keep the audio
in sync.
Audio sync problems are the most awkward of video -> DVD problem that people
face.
_________
As a comparison I convert analogue video to DVD without a hardware Mpeg2
encoder, and in my opinion, the quality's superior to any hardware mpeg2
encoder. I use a Video and digital video (Firewire bridge) device. And
capture into Avi format, the files are a little bit bigger thou.
Buchetamo
as I don't know any other way, so far have not experienced "frame dropping",
but I have experienced audio sync. problems. In one instance I used the same
VHS cassette to convert two segments, each recorded on different dates; one
came out flawless but the other one had the audio sync problem.
"Alan Shepherd" <sp...@awshepherd.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:430a2f23$0$12924$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
Mark Burns
the file immediately after capture.
Since using VR on these captures, I have not had any A/V sync problems.
VR uses the time stamps on the captured video and ensures that the
audio and video are in sync. Sort of a post capture time base
corrector.
Cheers...
Buchetamo
very good... now I can use it for the first time. Thanks again. Just one
question before I sign off: why "immediately after capture"?, could you tell
me the technical reasons? thanks...news:1124758521....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Mark Burns
gets much more technical than this, but is good enough for my personal
understanding.
Audio and video packets (or frames) are captured in the order that they
are received. Each are time stamped. With VHS, there can be noise in
the signals that causes audio and/or video packet loss. Also, frames
can be stored into the output file out of proper order. Something
like:
VVVVAVVVVAVVVVAVVVVAVVVVA
For NTSC, there will be 29.97 video frames per second, for PAL 25 fps.
If we drop one here, one there, then the video and audio will
eventually go noticably out of sync on our DVD.
Although the captured mpeg file will play fine on a pc, since the pc is
constantly resyncing the audio and video packets by their captured time
stamps. But, if we demux and remux the streams into mpv and mpa and
then remux them, those intertwined relationships are lost.
VVVVVVVVV
AAAA
This is what happens in the .vob file. The video and audio streams are
seperated. This is because a .vob file can have multiple audio
streams, as well as multiple subpicture streams as well.
What VR does, is to look at the capture relationships of the video and
audio packets along with their time stamps. It figures out which are
out of order, and which have been lost. There are two ways two fix
dropped frames. One would be to recreate the frame, the other to
delete the frame without a matching partner. I am pretty sure that VR
takes the delete approach.
What you then wind up with is a normalized mpeg file that has been time
corrected. If you VR it immediately, then you fix the capture problems
immediately. I just trim my captured stuff and that fixes it at the
same time.
Just remember: capture, VR, edit, author, burn.
Cheers...
Ken Maltby
a field if it needs to.
> What you then wind up with is a normalized mpeg file that has been time
> corrected. If you VR it immediately, then you fix the capture problems
> immediately. I just trim my captured stuff and that fixes it at the
> same time.
>
> Just remember: capture, VR, edit, author, burn.
>
> Cheers...
>
I second that approach and the explanation is a great practical
description.
Just a couple of points that in no way changes the validity of
Marks description. Frames are composed of fields, in the analog
signal, and a feature of the good A/D converters is that they can
"lock" the audio samples to the video field. The "locking" is that
the audio for a field is a data packet that is associated/labeled in a
manner that provides for its rendering along with the correct video
field.
When digitizing the analog signal from tape playback, there are
changes to the audio and video analog signal inherent in the
physical movement and stretching of the tape. In this
phenomenon and during its correction for playback/capture, the
digitizer can be presented with audio data not concurrent with the
field it was originally associated with. The A/D chip has no way
of knowing that it shouldn't "lock" that audio to the current field.
(Where this is an extreme effect, even VideoReDo can't fix it,
automatically. ) This appears only for the actual fields with a
problem, all the rest that aren't misaligned will have the proper
field association. [ This is normally a relatively minor problem
with little actual impact on the captured sync., but when it is
involved the correction is more difficult.]
Separate video and audio streams are presented to your
hardware or software encoder, as frames (composed of two
fields, by markers within the format) for the video and the
field related audio packets. From here on you are at the
mercy of how the hardware and software treats the sync.
data at its disposal. Not all codec, hardware or formats
maintain this data in the same way, or at all, but it is still
in the initial video and audio structure.
VideoReDo (and some others) can correct the sync. by
Demuxing and Remuxing correcting the streams so that
they match the initial field associations, and writing the
header data to properly reflect that relationship.
VideoReDo is quite sophisticated in its approach to this
and can detect and make some corrections to misaligned
field data. That, and some of the other optimizations it
applies for greater DVD compliance make it so unusual.
( It also helps that it is so easy to use.)
Luck;
Ken
P.S. I guess I'm not gone after all.
Mark Burns
Thanks for a great technical explanation. I shall file this one away
for future reference. Glad to see that you aren't gone! Don't know
what that we would do without you.
Before discovering VR, I used to take the slice and dice approach to
fixing A/V sync problems. They occurred on about 30% of my VHS tapes.
Took a couple of hours to fix a bad tape capture. Tried fastforwarding
& rewinding completely, slowing the bit rate, nothing really worked.
Tried capturing 30 minutes at a time, rewinding 10 min, capturing next
30, ... Put the video back together with Womble. They were watchable
and improved, but never quite right. VR fixed all of that.
I now have gone the DVD desktop recorder route, but still capture with
my Pinnacle Moviebox USB 2.0 when I want more control over the capture
parameters.
IMHO, everyone should budget the $50 for VR when doing analog to mpeg
capture. I like to call it VideoRedoVooDoo.
Cheers!
Mark
Ken Maltby
Oh, one other point; You could describe Deinterlacing as removing
the field structure within a video frame. So, if it's not done with
great care to retain a proper association with both audio packets,
sync issues are possible. If a minor error in the process propagates
through a long video, it could add up to a noticeable problem.
/Ken
Alan Shepherd
My solution was to go the Digital Video route - with a Firewire capture
device/ bridge - capturing into 13Gb Hour files. These while big and
unwieldy - have the great advantage of easy editing, and simple
transformation into other more compressed formats, including both Mpeg2 &
XVid which I do often (but Mpeg2 is'nt too hard to convert to XVid - just a
lot harder to edit than DV-Avi & slower).