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Is it a bad idea to test OTA under cloudy an rainy weather?
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Ant
Mar 18, 2012, 1:26:12 PM3/18/12
to
Hello.
Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to
test out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
Thank you in advance. :)
--
"The little ant at its hole is full of courage." --African
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
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\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
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Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to
test out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
Thank you in advance. :)
--
"The little ant at its hole is full of courage." --African
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
/ /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
| |o o| |
\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.
Jim Wilkins
Mar 18, 2012, 1:37:40 PM3/18/12
to
"Ant" <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote in message
news:kMqdnY7CKJIph_vS...@earthlink.com...
> Hello.
>
> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea
> to test out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA
> feeds?
My reception is somewhat worse in wet weather, likely from passing
>
> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea
> to test out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA
> feeds?
through wet leaves as I don't see much difference in winter.
If you are trying several antennas you should compare them under the
same conditions.
jsw
Ant
Mar 18, 2012, 1:39:35 PM3/18/12
to
On 3/18/2012 10:37 AM PT, Jim Wilkins typed:
>> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea
>> to test out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA
>> feeds?
>
> My reception is somewhat worse in wet weather, likely from passing
> through wet leaves as I don't see much difference in winter.
>
> If you are trying several antennas you should compare them under the
> same conditions.
Thank you for the very quick reply/response. I will give it a spin then
later today. :)
--
"If you're an ant, and you're walking along across the top of a cup of
pudding, you probably have no idea that the only thing between you and
disaster is the strength of that pudding skin." --Jack Handy from
Saturday Night Live
>> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea
>> to test out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA
>> feeds?
>
> My reception is somewhat worse in wet weather, likely from passing
> through wet leaves as I don't see much difference in winter.
>
> If you are trying several antennas you should compare them under the
> same conditions.
later today. :)
--
"If you're an ant, and you're walking along across the top of a cup of
pudding, you probably have no idea that the only thing between you and
disaster is the strength of that pudding skin." --Jack Handy from
Saturday Night Live
Gene E. Bloch
Mar 18, 2012, 6:30:38 PM3/18/12
to
On 3/18/2012, Ant posted:
I'd say test in all conditions which you might to be watching in.
--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
> Hello.
> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to test
> out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
> Thank you in advance. :)
Would you not like to know if the reception is lousy in bad weather?
> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to test
> out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
> Thank you in advance. :)
I'd say test in all conditions which you might to be watching in.
--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
Ant
Mar 18, 2012, 6:35:39 PM3/18/12
to
On 3/18/2012 3:30 PM PT, Gene E. Bloch typed:
>> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to
>> test out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
>
>> Thank you in advance. :)
>
> Would you not like to know if the reception is lousy in bad weather?
>
> I'd say test in all conditions which you might to be watching in.
Ah, good point there. :)
--
"There are things in the Universe billions of years older than either of
our races. They are vast, timeless, and if they are aware of us at all,
it is as little more than ants and we have as much chance of
communicating with them as an ant has with us. We know. We've tried and
we've learned that we can either stay out from underfoot or be stepped
on. They are a mystery and I am both terrified and reassured that to
know that there are still wonders in the Universe, that we have not
explained everything. Whatever they are, Miss Sakai, they walk near
Sigma 957 and they must walk there alone." --G'Kar - Mind War
>> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to
>> test out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
>
>> Thank you in advance. :)
>
> Would you not like to know if the reception is lousy in bad weather?
>
> I'd say test in all conditions which you might to be watching in.
--
"There are things in the Universe billions of years older than either of
our races. They are vast, timeless, and if they are aware of us at all,
it is as little more than ants and we have as much chance of
communicating with them as an ant has with us. We know. We've tried and
we've learned that we can either stay out from underfoot or be stepped
on. They are a mystery and I am both terrified and reassured that to
know that there are still wonders in the Universe, that we have not
explained everything. Whatever they are, Miss Sakai, they walk near
Sigma 957 and they must walk there alone." --G'Kar - Mind War
Gordon Burditt
Mar 18, 2012, 6:37:27 PM3/18/12
to
> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to
> test out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
It's an excellent time to test out antennas (but don't be up on the
> test out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
roof putting up an antenna during a thunderstorm). Test out all
the antennas under identical circumstances (and on all channels),
which includes identical weather (as close as you can get). Yes,
rain and clouds affect OTA reception. I have found that clouds and
rain *between* me and the transmitter cause trouble, so it doesn't
necessarily have to be raining *here* to have bad reception.
If all of the antennas suck, you've learned that bad weather will
be a problem. (Try them again in good weather.) If some of them
are better than others, you've learned which is best. If all of
them work great in clouds and rain, I guess weather isn't that much
of a problem for you.
Gene E. Bloch
Mar 18, 2012, 6:46:27 PM3/18/12
to
On 3/18/2012, Ant posted:
more detailed and informative than mine.
> On 3/18/2012 3:30 PM PT, Gene E. Bloch typed:
>>> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to
>>> test out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
>>
>>> Thank you in advance. :)
>>
>> Would you not like to know if the reception is lousy in bad weather?
>>
>> I'd say test in all conditions which you might to be watching in.
> Ah, good point there. :)
Gordon Burditt seems to agree with me, but I'd say that his reply is
>>> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to
>>> test out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
>>
>>> Thank you in advance. :)
>>
>> Would you not like to know if the reception is lousy in bad weather?
>>
>> I'd say test in all conditions which you might to be watching in.
> Ah, good point there. :)
more detailed and informative than mine.
Sal
Mar 18, 2012, 7:56:41 PM3/18/12
to
"Ant" <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote in message
news:kMqdnY7CKJIph_vS...@earthlink.com...
> Hello.
>
> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to test
> out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
I acknowledge having read the "leaves" response and your comment to it.
>
> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to test
> out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
The area weather rarely affects short-range TV reception, but it defintely
can affect long-range TV reception.
Pardon me, but I can't precisely establish the dividing line between short-
and long-range reception but my location, about 125 miles from the Los
Angeles TV transmitters on Mount Wilson, should qualify as "long-range" for
most people.
My experience of about six years shows that I receive many of the LA DTV
stations perfectly with a basic rooftop antenna most of the time. I get a
few virtually all the time, like KCBS and KTTV. I get a few more most of
the time, like KNBC, KTLA, and KCOP. The rest are a mix but all share a
common characteristic: they all usually rise and fall in signal strength as
a group. I can press a few buttons on the remote and bring up a display
with little bars, each of which seems to equate to a doubling (or halving)
of the signal. I can watch and see the changes in signal strength in real
time. I don't do it much any more. I"ve already seen most of what I ever
needed to see.
By the way, my location happens to give me a distinct advantage; I am near
the top of a gradual rise and I have an unobstructed view to the north for a
few miles. Most of the time it's great that I have such a location, but
this weekend, the weather has been very rainy and my LA reception is mostly
El Sucko. (Be careful using these technical terms; they're best left to the
experts. ;-)
With my San Diego "locals," I will get a signal strength indication that
never varies unless I switch antennas. In contrast, with my LA "distants,"
I can monitor while some stations will go from six bars to nothing in a half
hour and come back again in ten minutes to three bars. Although this is what
I've seen, I make no claim to a scientific study. As I might have said
before I retired, "I can tell you, but I need a charge number, first."
A phenomenon called "ducting" is usually responsible for what I see in the
way of signal fluctuations. If you google for <uhf vhf ducting>, you will
get as much you want to know.
http://www.google.com <vhf uhf ducting> is clickable in some newreaders.
The search returns are largly ham-radio related but still informative in a
general sense. Will help you get your arms around the phenomenon.
But in summary, local weather can produce atmospheric layers that trap
signals and release them again at other locations, much as the shapes of
mountains and valleys do with rainfall on the ground. The ducts are
weather-dependent and seem to occur more in the summer than winter. A
recurrent summertime duct was reported to carry a Texas Channel 3 signal
into Central California. It banged in with such strength that it interfered
with Channel 3 reception from KCRA -3 Sacramento for some viewers in
California. Now that's a duct!
[Related, sort of: Ducts can also carry sound waves. When the Navy is
doing gun-shoots offshore, sometimes the sound comes ashore from 50 miles
away and it sounds like some a-hole is playing with dynamite on the next
block. Such are the joys of living in/around San Diego.]
The absolute kick-ass duct I ever heard about was in the Indian Ocean. For
months, US Navy ships' radar operators reported mysterious clutter on some
of their radar scope displays. When the official reports began piling up,
somebody finally figured out that their radar pulses were getting trapped in
a duct, traveling a thousand or more miles and bouncing off the Himalayas!
It didn't happen all the time but when it did there was only one solution:
"Get used to it, those mountains are staying put."
I hope this clears things up a little.
"Sal"
(Been around the block so many times, I quit counting)
TJ
Mar 18, 2012, 8:32:29 PM3/18/12
to
On 03/18/2012 01:26 PM, Ant wrote:
> Hello.
>
> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to
> test out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)
The rest have given good advice, but I'm going to throw in my $.02, too.
> Hello.
>
> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to
> test out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)
My situation is that my house sits between the highway(a US highway, so
it's rather busy) and the transmitters, and the rooms where I watch TV
the most have fewer walls between the indoor antennas and the highway
than they do between the antennas and the transmitters.
When it rains I sometimes get some dropouts and macroblocking when
cars/trucks go by, especially on the closest, strongest station. If I
move the antenna slightly, they stop. My theory is that the rain and
walls cut the direct signal, while the wet vehicles reflect a stronger
signal back to the TV than they do when it's dry. This makes the direct
signal strength and the reflected signal strength closer to each other,
and my converter box tuner has a harder time differentiating between
them. Moving the antenna de-tunes it for the reflected signals, and
restores the differential.
All that is a long-winded way of saying yes, it's good to check an
antenna when it's raining as well as when it's sunny. But don't be
surprised if the best reception spot is different for different forms of
weather.
TJ
Jim Wilkins
Mar 18, 2012, 10:05:03 PM3/18/12
to
"Sal" <sob...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:jk5sms$vb2$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> A phenomenon called "ducting" is usually responsible for what I see
> in the way of signal fluctuations. If you google for <uhf vhf
> ducting>, you will get as much you want to know.
>
> http://www.google.com <vhf uhf ducting> is clickable in some
> newreaders. The search returns are largly ham-radio related but
> still informative in a general sense. Will help you get your arms
> around the phenomenon.
>
> But in summary, local weather can produce atmospheric layers that
> trap signals and release them again at other locations, much as the
> shapes of mountains and valleys do with rainfall on the ground. The
> ducts are weather-dependent and seem to occur more in the summer
> than winter. A recurrent summertime duct was reported to carry a
> Texas Channel 3 signal into Central California. It banged in with
> such strength that it interfered with Channel 3 reception from
> KCRA -3 Sacramento for some viewers in California. Now that's a
> duct!
>
> "Sal"
> A phenomenon called "ducting" is usually responsible for what I see
> in the way of signal fluctuations. If you google for <uhf vhf
> ducting>, you will get as much you want to know.
>
> http://www.google.com <vhf uhf ducting> is clickable in some
> newreaders. The search returns are largly ham-radio related but
> still informative in a general sense. Will help you get your arms
> around the phenomenon.
>
> But in summary, local weather can produce atmospheric layers that
> trap signals and release them again at other locations, much as the
> shapes of mountains and valleys do with rainfall on the ground. The
> ducts are weather-dependent and seem to occur more in the summer
> than winter. A recurrent summertime duct was reported to carry a
> Texas Channel 3 signal into Central California. It banged in with
> such strength that it interfered with Channel 3 reception from
> KCRA -3 Sacramento for some viewers in California. Now that's a
> duct!
>
Interesting.
I recently answered a UFO-baited question about the 1942 "Battle of
Los Angeles" by repeating the commanding general's conclusion that the
SCR-268 & -270 radars had picked up a flock of seagulls over a garbage
barge at an unusual distance. He didn't mention (or know about?)
anaprop, the tech term for ducting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalous_propagation
jsw
Sal
Mar 18, 2012, 11:49:09 PM3/18/12
to
"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jk646k$5hh$1...@dont-email.me...
I'm glad to see you quoted back some of my post, as I see it is missing from
the group. Odd.
I think anaprop includes some other phenomena besides ducting but none
strike me ATT. You?
"SAL"
(KD6VKW)
Jim Wilkins
Mar 18, 2012, 11:57:49 PM3/18/12
to
news:jk6aa9$tek$1...@dont-email.me...
>
> "Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote in message ...
measurements.
jsw
>
> "Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote in message ...
> I think anaprop includes some other phenomena besides ducting but
> none strike me ATT. You?
>
> "SAL"
> (KD6VKW)
I mostly worked in the lab, and made very few field propagation
> none strike me ATT. You?
>
> "SAL"
> (KD6VKW)
measurements.
jsw
Sal
Mar 19, 2012, 2:34:18 PM3/19/12
to
news:jk6aq2$v7j$1...@dont-email.me...
I made plenty of field strength measurements but always close-by stuff,
almost exclusively for EMI emission and susceptibility. Half the time you
could propagate a rock or a snowball across the same distance. Some of it
was problem-chasing and some was validation and verification of prototypes,
both whole equipments and add-ons or fixes.
I didn't usually have to worry about anaprop. Trouble, when it came, was
usually close-by, in the form of somebody who switched on an emitter after
we asked them not to. :-(
"Sal"
almost exclusively for EMI emission and susceptibility. Half the time you
could propagate a rock or a snowball across the same distance. Some of it
was problem-chasing and some was validation and verification of prototypes,
both whole equipments and add-ons or fixes.
I didn't usually have to worry about anaprop. Trouble, when it came, was
usually close-by, in the form of somebody who switched on an emitter after
we asked them not to. :-(
"Sal"
Daniel W. Rouse Jr.
Mar 19, 2012, 10:49:09 PM3/19/12
to
"Ant" <a...@zimage.comANT> wrote in message
news:kMqdnY7CKJIph_vS...@earthlink.com...
news:kMqdnY7CKJIph_vS...@earthlink.com...
> Hello.
>
> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to test
> out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)
In fact you should be testing in cloudy and inclement weather. This will
>
> Today's weather is cloudy, rainy, and cold. Would it be a bad idea to test
> out OTA antennae, indoor (e.g., attic)? Do they affect OTA feeds?
>
> Thank you in advance. :)
expose the failure cases, should they occur, if you have any failure cases
to be aware of being present.
ckoz...@snet.net
Mar 20, 2012, 4:55:00 PM3/20/12
to
On Monday, March 19, 2012 10:49:09 PM UTC-4, Daniel W. Rouse Jr. wrote:
>
> In fact you should be testing in cloudy and inclement weather. This will
> expose the failure cases, should they occur, if you have any failure cases
> to be aware of being present.
__________
>
> In fact you should be testing in cloudy and inclement weather. This will
> expose the failure cases, should they occur, if you have any failure cases
> to be aware of being present.
"Like"!
If it'll pick up in a piss storm with 30+mph gusts it should pick up on a calm mostly clear day. LOL!
-CC
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