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Biting the Hand That Feeds You
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Sal
May 22, 2012, 5:25:12 PM5/22/12
to
Dish Network is offering a new DVR box with a feature called Auto Hop,
allowing next-day viewers and beyond to skip commercials.
I suspect they're in competitive economic trouble; otherwise they wouldn't
be doing something that's so at odds with their core business. Their
principal job is to deliver commercial TV. Without it, nobody would
subscribe to their service. They'd be offering C-SPAN, PBS, Jerry Fallwell
and the Shopping Channel.
That's not enough content to earn a place on my roof, never mind a monthly
bill. Commercial TV belongs, so the commercials belong.
If you side with them, imagine buying a magazine and discovering that
somebody had clipped out all the ads.
allowing next-day viewers and beyond to skip commercials.
I suspect they're in competitive economic trouble; otherwise they wouldn't
be doing something that's so at odds with their core business. Their
principal job is to deliver commercial TV. Without it, nobody would
subscribe to their service. They'd be offering C-SPAN, PBS, Jerry Fallwell
and the Shopping Channel.
That's not enough content to earn a place on my roof, never mind a monthly
bill. Commercial TV belongs, so the commercials belong.
If you side with them, imagine buying a magazine and discovering that
somebody had clipped out all the ads.
Message has been deleted
Bert
May 22, 2012, 7:05:25 PM5/22/12
to
In news:jph07d$fb8$1...@dont-email.me "Sal" <sob...@aol.com> wrote:
> That's not enough content to earn a place on my roof, never mind a
> monthly bill.
Good for you.
> That's not enough content to earn a place on my roof, never mind a
> monthly bill.
--
be...@iphouse.com St. Paul, MN
Gordon Burditt
May 22, 2012, 8:11:46 PM5/22/12
to
Shouldn't that be "Biting the Hand that You Feed"? Viewers pay
Dish Network. Dish Network does not get paid by commercial TV.
> Dish Network is offering a new DVR box with a feature called Auto Hop,
> allowing next-day viewers and beyond to skip commercials.
That's "allowing", not "requiring", isn't it?
> I suspect they're in competitive economic trouble; otherwise they wouldn't
> be doing something that's so at odds with their core business. Their
Their core business is delivering content to viewers that the viewers
WANT to view.
There's always a conflict of interest between a distributor and
their suppliers.
> principal job is to deliver commercial TV. Without it, nobody would
> subscribe to their service. They'd be offering C-SPAN, PBS, Jerry Fallwell
> and the Shopping Channel.
>
> That's not enough content to earn a place on my roof, never mind a monthly
> bill. Commercial TV belongs, so the commercials belong.
Soap operas belong, too, but that doesn't mean the viewer has to
go to a lot of effort to avoid them.
> If you side with them, imagine buying a magazine and discovering that
> somebody had clipped out all the ads.
Depending on the magazine, I might be willing to pay extra for that.
However, I think the analogy is more like someone moved all the ads
to be back of the magazine where I don't have to see them unless I
want to.
Are you trying to claim that Dish prohibits people from viewing the
commercials? Allowing them to skip the commercials != requiring them
to skip the commercials.
Dish Network. Dish Network does not get paid by commercial TV.
> Dish Network is offering a new DVR box with a feature called Auto Hop,
> allowing next-day viewers and beyond to skip commercials.
> I suspect they're in competitive economic trouble; otherwise they wouldn't
> be doing something that's so at odds with their core business. Their
WANT to view.
There's always a conflict of interest between a distributor and
their suppliers.
> principal job is to deliver commercial TV. Without it, nobody would
> subscribe to their service. They'd be offering C-SPAN, PBS, Jerry Fallwell
> and the Shopping Channel.
>
> That's not enough content to earn a place on my roof, never mind a monthly
> bill. Commercial TV belongs, so the commercials belong.
go to a lot of effort to avoid them.
> If you side with them, imagine buying a magazine and discovering that
> somebody had clipped out all the ads.
However, I think the analogy is more like someone moved all the ads
to be back of the magazine where I don't have to see them unless I
want to.
Are you trying to claim that Dish prohibits people from viewing the
commercials? Allowing them to skip the commercials != requiring them
to skip the commercials.
J G Miller
May 23, 2012, 4:10:46 AM5/23/12
to
On Tuesday, May 22nd, 2012, at 14:25:12h -0700, Sal wrote:
> Dish Network is offering a new DVR box with a feature called Auto Hop,
> allowing next-day viewers and beyond to skip commercials.
^^^^^^^^
> Dish Network is offering a new DVR box with a feature called Auto Hop,
> allowing next-day viewers and beyond to skip commercials.
...
> If you side with them, imagine buying a magazine and discovering that
> somebody had clipped out all the ads.
skip commercials and censoring the commercials (ie not providing them at all).
What Dish Network is providing is the scissors.
Would you complain if a magazine was distributed with a "free"
pair of scissors?
Sal
May 24, 2012, 1:16:20 AM5/24/12
to
"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message
news:jpi626$6kv$2...@dont-email.me...
J G Miller
May 24, 2012, 9:03:42 AM5/24/12
to
On Wednesday, May 23rd, 2012, at 22:16:20h -0700, Sal chided:
> Sure, play language games.
If you do not understand or are deliberately avoiding the difference
between "allow" and "compel/deny" then it is you who is playing the
Humpty Dumpty language game.
> Sure, play language games.
If you do not understand or are deliberately avoiding the difference
between "allow" and "compel/deny" then it is you who is playing the
Humpty Dumpty language game.
Bert
May 24, 2012, 10:17:45 AM5/24/12
to
> If you side with them, imagine buying a magazine and discovering that
> somebody had clipped out all the ads.
How about buying a magazine and discovering that you had to read each
> somebody had clipped out all the ads.
and every advertisement, without the ability to turn the page until
you'd done so?
Sal
May 24, 2012, 2:53:22 PM5/24/12
to
"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message
Sal
May 24, 2012, 3:07:29 PM5/24/12
to
"Bert" <be...@iphouse.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA05D5E9077...@216.250.188.140...
magazine again.
In spite of that, I think the analogy has a flaw, since we all know, going
in, that most TV producers expect commercials to fund the content.
Some Internet content is already delivered the way you describe; I see video
content with embedded commercials that cannot be skipped in whole or part.
Other content is overlaid with ads. They're hard to avoid.
J G Miller
May 24, 2012, 3:44:39 PM5/24/12
to
On Thursday, May 24th, 2012, at 11:53:22h -0700, Sal wrote:
> OK, you're siding with Dish Network and against me. Got it. Done.
Not at all.
> OK, you're siding with Dish Network and against me. Got it. Done.
Your retort only betrays further the false logic you are
applying in this case.
Sal
May 24, 2012, 10:53:43 PM5/24/12
to
"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message
Dish against my impotent attack.
I say we need the commercials. If the Dish approach catches hold and all
viewers "who have boxes of some sort through which they watch TV" routinely
skip the commercials, advertisers will say something like, "Screw this."
The ad dollars will go somewhere else.
I want a re-do on the magazine analogy ... the one you shot full of holes.
Instead, what if you were PRODUCING one or more magazines and you discovered
that some retailers were providing your magazine(s) to customers with the
ads removed? As the content provider, you might object, mightn't you?
Patty Winter
May 24, 2012, 10:57:37 PM5/24/12
to
And the lawsuits have begun:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-fox-dish-suit-20120525,0,719747.story
"Fox Broadcasting, NBCUniversal and CBS Corp. have sued Dish Network to
try to sink the satellite company's controversial new ad-skipping feature
AutoHop, which makes it possible for subscribers to automatically remove
commercials in broadcast TV shows.
"Dish fired back with its own lawsuit, asking a federal judge to declare
that AutoHop violates no laws. Dish sued Fox, NBC, CBS and ABC, which
is expected to join the other broadcast networks in the effort against
the satellite TV company."
Patty
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-ct-fox-dish-suit-20120525,0,719747.story
"Fox Broadcasting, NBCUniversal and CBS Corp. have sued Dish Network to
try to sink the satellite company's controversial new ad-skipping feature
AutoHop, which makes it possible for subscribers to automatically remove
commercials in broadcast TV shows.
"Dish fired back with its own lawsuit, asking a federal judge to declare
that AutoHop violates no laws. Dish sued Fox, NBC, CBS and ABC, which
is expected to join the other broadcast networks in the effort against
the satellite TV company."
Patty
K. B.
May 25, 2012, 3:46:51 AM5/25/12
to
On Tue, 22 May 2012 14:25:12 -0700, "Sal" <sob...@aol.com>
posted:
>Dish Network is offering a new DVR box with a feature called Auto Hop,
>allowing next-day viewers and beyond to skip commercials.
Recently, I got a used Panasonic PV-V4621 at a Thrift Shop
so I could record from MeTV and Antenna TV without wearing
out my new VCRs.
This Panasonic VCR has something called "Commercial
Advance", from the manual:
Commercial Advance marks the beginning and end points of
commercials on your tape...
When Commercial Advance marked tape is played back, the VCR
automatically advances through the commercial segments at
high speed.
I don't recall any litigation about this VCR feature.
I first thought the VCR was broken, it would sometimes speed
up during a program (not an ad) recorded from a DTV STB,
once I downloaded the manual, I checked the VCR setup and
turned off the Commercial Advance feature (which doesn't
seem to work using an ATSC sourced NTSC format signal), the
VCR has worked fine since.
Kirk Bayne
alt.video.digital-tv Home Page
<http://avdtv.tripod.com/avdtv.htm>
posted:
>Dish Network is offering a new DVR box with a feature called Auto Hop,
>allowing next-day viewers and beyond to skip commercials.
so I could record from MeTV and Antenna TV without wearing
out my new VCRs.
This Panasonic VCR has something called "Commercial
Advance", from the manual:
Commercial Advance marks the beginning and end points of
commercials on your tape...
When Commercial Advance marked tape is played back, the VCR
automatically advances through the commercial segments at
high speed.
I don't recall any litigation about this VCR feature.
I first thought the VCR was broken, it would sometimes speed
up during a program (not an ad) recorded from a DTV STB,
once I downloaded the manual, I checked the VCR setup and
turned off the Commercial Advance feature (which doesn't
seem to work using an ATSC sourced NTSC format signal), the
VCR has worked fine since.
Kirk Bayne
alt.video.digital-tv Home Page
<http://avdtv.tripod.com/avdtv.htm>
J G Miller
May 25, 2012, 6:36:58 AM5/25/12
to
On Thursday, May 24th, 2012, at 19:53:43h -0700, Sal wrote:
> I want a re-do on the magazine analogy ... the one you shot full of holes.
> Instead, what if you were PRODUCING one or more magazines and you discovered
> that some retailers were providing your magazine(s) to customers with the
> ads removed? As the content provider, you might object, mightn't you?
But Dish network are not cutting out the commercials, they are
> I want a re-do on the magazine analogy ... the one you shot full of holes.
> Instead, what if you were PRODUCING one or more magazines and you discovered
> that some retailers were providing your magazine(s) to customers with the
> ads removed? As the content provider, you might object, mightn't you?
providing the customer with a free pair of scissors.
It is up to the customer whether or not they use them.
Have not viewers been doing this for a long time aready
if they have a TIVO or equivalent device?
Incidentally advertisers are already spending more money
on Internet advertising than TV advertising.
The reality is that linear TV is dying a slow and gradual
death.
And I do completely agree with you that the current model
of FTA commercial TV needs to sell advertising air time
to survive.
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