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The Pictures Were Too Good
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Sal
Apr 6, 2012, 8:40:29 PM4/6/12
to
My wife and I just finished watching a series called "Carnivale" from HBO
films. Originally, it ran two seasons, available now on regular DVDs -- no
mention of Blu-ray on the wrapper. Our neighbors bought the set and watched
the series on a DVD player and standard-def TV. They CANNOT play Blu-ray.
I asked.
We played "Carnivale" on a Blu-ray player and it appeared to be in HD. I've
heard that some Blu-ray players do a process called up-converting, which
improves the look of SD DVDs. I've never had a reason to appreciate it ...
until now. Periodically, I had a chance to study a scene that had a steady
picture, suitable for analyzing the details. I swear it looked like true
HD, a la Blu-ray or broadcast HDTV. I'm not complaining -- oh, no. But
when I'm puzzled, I say something.
I suspect upconverting to be at the heart of the matter, so do any of you
know if some DVDs are better suited for this? Do some include encoded
detail data that is ignored by regular (SD) DVD players but yet is
recognized by a Blu-ray player?
We play Blu-rays from Netflix often enough to appreciate the advantage of
true HD, plus, of course the every-day HD TV programming. What do any of
you know about DVD encoding that would shed some light on this? Thanks in
advance.
"Sal"
films. Originally, it ran two seasons, available now on regular DVDs -- no
mention of Blu-ray on the wrapper. Our neighbors bought the set and watched
the series on a DVD player and standard-def TV. They CANNOT play Blu-ray.
I asked.
We played "Carnivale" on a Blu-ray player and it appeared to be in HD. I've
heard that some Blu-ray players do a process called up-converting, which
improves the look of SD DVDs. I've never had a reason to appreciate it ...
until now. Periodically, I had a chance to study a scene that had a steady
picture, suitable for analyzing the details. I swear it looked like true
HD, a la Blu-ray or broadcast HDTV. I'm not complaining -- oh, no. But
when I'm puzzled, I say something.
I suspect upconverting to be at the heart of the matter, so do any of you
know if some DVDs are better suited for this? Do some include encoded
detail data that is ignored by regular (SD) DVD players but yet is
recognized by a Blu-ray player?
We play Blu-rays from Netflix often enough to appreciate the advantage of
true HD, plus, of course the every-day HD TV programming. What do any of
you know about DVD encoding that would shed some light on this? Thanks in
advance.
"Sal"
TJ
Apr 6, 2012, 10:27:17 PM4/6/12
to
On 04/06/2012 08:40 PM, Sal wrote:
> We play Blu-rays from Netflix often enough to appreciate the advantage of
> true HD, plus, of course the every-day HD TV programming. What do any of
> you know about DVD encoding that would shed some light on this? Thanks in
> advance.
>
> "Sal"
>
>
Sal, you made me think of my father tonight, and what his reaction to
> We play Blu-rays from Netflix often enough to appreciate the advantage of
> true HD, plus, of course the every-day HD TV programming. What do any of
> you know about DVD encoding that would shed some light on this? Thanks in
> advance.
>
> "Sal"
>
>
your post would be, were it a conversation. (To say Dad was computer
illiterate would be like saying Steve Jobs was a pretty good businessman.)
He'd look right at you and ask, "You braggin' or complainin'?"
Thank you for putting a smile on my face after a long day.
TJ
P.S. Sorry I can't help with your question.
Sal
Apr 6, 2012, 11:38:50 PM4/6/12
to
"TJ" <T...@noneofyour.business> wrote in message
news:jlo8mb$8i1$1...@dont-email.me...
> On 04/06/2012 08:40 PM, Sal wrote:
< snip >
> He'd look right at you and ask, "You braggin' or complainin'?"
>
> Thank you for putting a smile on my face after a long day.
>
> TJ
>
> P.S. Sorry I can't help with your question.
Steve Fenwick
Apr 7, 2012, 2:38:55 AM4/7/12
to
(effectively) low-pass filtered, there won't be as much information in
the frequency domain (which is how it is stored on disk) to allow
upconverting to work effectively.
Cheap conversion can be faster, and allow distributors to cram more on a
single disk and reduce conversion time (both aimed at reducing costs).
Steve
--
steve <at> w0x0f <dot> com
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, sidecar in the other, body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
Patty Winter
Apr 7, 2012, 2:59:58 AM4/7/12
to
>My wife and I just finished watching a series called "Carnivale" from HBO
>films.
>films.
>We played "Carnivale" on a Blu-ray player and it appeared to be in HD.
"Carnivale" was a beautifully photographed series. I'm glad that you
were able to see it so well on DVD!
Patty
the dog from that film you saw
Apr 7, 2012, 6:47:43 AM4/7/12
to
every time you watch a non HD source on your HD tv, the television has
upscaled it - it's not magic, you can't summon extra picture info out of
thin air.
you could connect a 1980 atari vcs to your hdtv - it would be upscaled.
wouldn't look like a ps3 though....
--
Gareth.
That fly.... Is your magic wand.
J G Miller
Apr 7, 2012, 7:30:00 AM4/7/12
to
On Saturday, April 7th, 2012, at 11:47:43h +0100,
The dog from that film you saw explained:
> the thing with upconverting is, your tv already does it.
> every time you watch a non HD source on your HD tv, the television has
> upscaled it
So the all important question is, which is the better upscaler --
the one in the TV or the one in the BluRay player?
The dog from that film you saw explained:
> the thing with upconverting is, your tv already does it.
> every time you watch a non HD source on your HD tv, the television has
> upscaled it
the one in the TV or the one in the BluRay player?
the dog from that film you saw
Apr 7, 2012, 8:17:03 AM4/7/12
to
Sal
Apr 7, 2012, 2:51:38 PM4/7/12
to
"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message
news:jlp8fo$ap1$1...@dont-email.me...
Blu-ray to my
Sony TV is HDMI. I don't have HDMI on any other DVD players of various
types: one old standalone player, two standalone recorder-players, a laptop
and an iMac. The best any of them will do is component. (... and I have
only the one HDMI-capable display.)
I wonder if the iMac, about two-and-a-half years old, will display an
improved picture from the Carnivale DVDs. My monitor will do an honest 720
but not 1080. Will play later.
Thanks.
"Sal"
As to what the TV will do, I have to say that when we watch SD cable
programming, the pictures do appear quite nice -- although not as good as
their HD counterparts. Thus the TV _could_ be doing the heavy lifting on SD
DVDs.
Sal
Apr 7, 2012, 2:56:41 PM4/7/12
to
"Steve Fenwick" <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:nospam-0FE3ED....@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <jlo2bh$fd9$1...@dont-email.me>, "Sal" <sob...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>> My wife and I just finished watching a series called "Carnivale" from HBO
>> films. Originally, it ran two seasons, available now on regular DVDs --
>> no
>> mention of Blu-ray on the wrapper. Our neighbors bought the set and
>> watched
>> the series on a DVD player and standard-def TV. They CANNOT play
>> Blu-ray.
>> I asked.
>>
>> We played "Carnivale" on a Blu-ray player and it appeared to be in HD.
>> I've
>> heard that some Blu-ray players do a process called up-converting, which
>> improves the look of SD DVDs. I've never had a reason to appreciate it
>> ...
>> until now. Periodically, I had a chance to study a scene that had a
>> steady
>> picture, suitable for analyzing the details. I swear it looked like true
>> HD, a la Blu-ray or broadcast HDTV. I'm not complaining -- oh, no. But
>> when I'm puzzled, I say something.
< snip >
>
>> My wife and I just finished watching a series called "Carnivale" from HBO
>> films. Originally, it ran two seasons, available now on regular DVDs --
>> no
>> mention of Blu-ray on the wrapper. Our neighbors bought the set and
>> watched
>> the series on a DVD player and standard-def TV. They CANNOT play
>> Blu-ray.
>> I asked.
>>
>> We played "Carnivale" on a Blu-ray player and it appeared to be in HD.
>> I've
>> heard that some Blu-ray players do a process called up-converting, which
>> improves the look of SD DVDs. I've never had a reason to appreciate it
>> ...
>> until now. Periodically, I had a chance to study a scene that had a
>> steady
>> picture, suitable for analyzing the details. I swear it looked like true
>> HD, a la Blu-ray or broadcast HDTV. I'm not complaining -- oh, no. But
>> when I'm puzzled, I say something.
> Some DVDs may be encoded poorly; for example, if the video signal is
> (effectively) low-pass filtered, there won't be as much information in
> the frequency domain (which is how it is stored on disk) to allow
> upconverting to work effectively.
>
> Cheap conversion can be faster, and allow distributors to cram more on a
> single disk and reduce conversion time (both aimed at reducing costs).
>
> Steve
each, so they weren't scrimping on information density.
"Sal"
J G Miller
Apr 7, 2012, 3:57:05 PM4/7/12
to
On Saturday, April 7th, 2012, at 11:51:38h -0700, Sal wrote:
> Thus the TV _could_ be doing the heavy lifting on SD DVDs.
Surely that will depend on what setting you have for the output
> Thus the TV _could_ be doing the heavy lifting on SD DVDs.
of the player.
If the output of the player is set to SD 480 (or whatever)
then the TV will upscale that to 1080.
If the output of the player is set to HD 1080, then the TV will
show that as is, because the player has already upscaled the
content from SD 480 (or whatever) to HD 1080.
Note that an HDMI cable supports digital output of 720 or
1080 but an "analog" S connector cable will only carry analog
576 (?) lines maximum.
Sal
Apr 7, 2012, 6:00:24 PM4/7/12
to
"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message
brought it home, about two years ago. I think I just connected the HDMI
cable, and connected speakers to the Blu-ray player. (It's an audio
surround system, too.)
It all just worked. And no, I'm not complaining!!
Thanks,
"Sal"
J G Miller
Apr 7, 2012, 6:56:44 PM4/7/12
to
On Saturday, April 7th, 2012, at 15:00:24h -0700, Sal wrote:
> Trouble is, I don't recall setting it to anything when I
> brought it home, about two years ago.
Well you should go into the menu if possible and check the setting.
> Trouble is, I don't recall setting it to anything when I
> brought it home, about two years ago.
The default could well be 720p in which case the BluRay player
upscales DVD to 720p and then the TV upscales to 1080p.
Of course with it being a BluRay player, it is more probable
that the default would be set to 1080p but you need to check
to be certain.
When you change the source input on the TV to HDMI to the player,
does the TV not give any on screen display of HDMI #1 or #2 or
whatever and the resolution it is getting from that input?
Sal
Apr 7, 2012, 11:54:12 PM4/7/12
to
"J G Miller" <mil...@yoyo.ORG> wrote in message
>
> When you change the source input on the TV to HDMI to the player,
> does the TV not give any on screen display of HDMI #1 or #2 or
> whatever and the resolution it is getting from that input?
No data is ever displayed, only the names I gave to the various ports, like
> When you change the source input on the TV to HDMI to the player,
> does the TV not give any on screen display of HDMI #1 or #2 or
> whatever and the resolution it is getting from that input?
Cable Box, Camcorder, TV (for antenna), VCR, and Blu-ray. There are four
HDMI inputs, three in use, one spare.
I'll dig into the menus and see what I can see for each device. I actually
think I dont need to change anything; whatever operations these two devices
are performing, it seems right.
Daniel who wants to know
Apr 10, 2012, 12:14:25 AM4/10/12
to
"the dog from that film you saw" <d...@REMOVETHISbtinternet.com> wrote in
message news:9uapi7...@mid.individual.net...
the raw MPEG 2 data stream hence as it decodes/decompresses the stream it
can go directly to 1080 instead of decoding at 480 and then upconverting
that.
message news:9uapi7...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
>
> depends on your tv - and your blu ray player!
>
> --
> Gareth.
> That fly.... Is your magic wand.
I would hope the Blu-ray Disc player would win, after all it has access to
>
>
> depends on your tv - and your blu ray player!
>
> --
> Gareth.
> That fly.... Is your magic wand.
the raw MPEG 2 data stream hence as it decodes/decompresses the stream it
can go directly to 1080 instead of decoding at 480 and then upconverting
that.
Sal
Apr 10, 2012, 12:57:50 AM4/10/12
to
"Daniel who wants to know" <m...@here.edu> wrote in message
news:jm0c38$lfm$1...@dont-email.me...
< snip >
> I would hope the Blu-ray Disc player would win, after all it has access to
> the raw MPEG 2 data stream hence as it decodes/decompresses the stream it
> can go directly to 1080 instead of decoding at 480 and then upconverting
> that.
"Sal"
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