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Vampyr and elves

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Cliff Goodman

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Feb 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/6/96
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(jk0...@acad.drake.edu) writes:
> Good evening, everyone. I've been reading this newsgroups for a while,
> and am facinated by what I have seen. I have chosenn now to delurk and come to
> you with a question. What, if any, is the traditional relationship between
> the vampyr and elves? Is it benevolent, malevolent, indifferent, or is there
> any relatioship at all in the mythologies?
> Thank you for help with this question--perhaps the first of many to aid
> in my understand of these creatures.
> John

Good darned question!
Well, historically, I am told that vampyres have often been seen as
members of the Unseelie court involved in preying on humans and certain
other folk. Thus some fae have allied with vampyres... some have hunted
them. Depends on the individuals in question.
Vampyres quickly learned NOT to sup on most otherkin. Fae blood can do
really nasty things to a vampyre, and fae energies... particularly
glamour, can mess up a psyvamp like you wouldn't believe. This is not
always true, but is generally the norm.
These days... we get along. We're few and far between and there's safety
and comfort in numbers (regardless of how the vampyres value their
solitude and claim they need no one... there is still some value to this
point of view).
I think it's still on a person by person basis, only more so. There is, at
the least, tolerance and acceptance of each other by both societies.
Recognition. Acknowledgement of honour and worth. And both groups have
their... "monsters".

Me, I think most of 'em are fun to be around.
Entertaining sorts.

But that's just me.
Th' Elf

--
I'm immune to romantic notions, of course. I'm a block of heavy metal
unshakably planted at the center of a plain of common sense, illuminated
by the sun of reason. Right. Look up. See the swarms of pigs flying south
for the winter? "Dread Brass Shadows" - Glen Cook

Vandale*&*

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Feb 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/6/96
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In article <DMC7G...@freenet.carleton.ca>, be...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Cliff Goodman) says:

>
>
> (jk0...@acad.drake.edu) writes:
>> What, if any, is the traditional relationship between
>> the vampyr and elves? Is it benevolent, malevolent, indifferent, or is there
>> any relatioship at all in the mythologies?
>> [snipples]
>> John
>
>Good darned question!
>Well, historically, I am told that vampyres have often been seen as
>members of the Unseelie court involved in preying on humans and certain
>other folk. Thus some fae have allied with vampyres... some have hunted
>them. Depends on the individuals in question.

It was always my understanding that the faeriekind and the vampyres
were actually of the same ilk (different branches of the family tree).
I know plenty of faeriekinds who prey on humans...

>Vampyres quickly learned NOT to sup on most otherkin. Fae blood can do
>really nasty things to a vampyre, and fae energies... particularly
>glamour, can mess up a psyvamp like you wouldn't believe. This is not
>always true, but is generally the norm.

Actually, Dreamers, who are half-mortal, are very sought-after by the
original purebloods. And we are ill-equipped to fight 'em off.

>These days... we get along. We're few and far between and there's safety
>and comfort in numbers (regardless of how the vampyres value their
>solitude and claim they need no one... there is still some value to this
>point of view).

Yes, the Vampyre and the Faerie are cousin and sibling both.



>I think it's still on a person by person basis, only more so. There is, at
>the least, tolerance and acceptance of each other by both societies.
>Recognition. Acknowledgement of honour and worth. And both groups have
>their... "monsters".
>
>Me, I think most of 'em are fun to be around.
>Entertaining sorts.

You said it, elvish one. If little else, vampies and otherkind have
their extreme eccentricity in common. ;)

>But that's just me.
>Th' Elf

You and your Dreamer, elvish one.
-little o (aka Van*&*)

Tiernan

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Feb 10, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/10/96
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yu14...@yorku.ca (Vandale*&*) verily did say unto All:

>In article <DMC7G...@freenet.carleton.ca>, be...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Cliff Goodman) says:
>> (jk0...@acad.drake.edu) writes:
>>> What, if any, is the traditional relationship between
>>> the vampyr and elves? Is it benevolent, malevolent, indifferent, or is there
>>> any relatioship at all in the mythologies?
>>> [snipples]
>>> John
>>
>>Good darned question!
>>Well, historically, I am told that vampyres have often been seen as
>>members of the Unseelie court involved in preying on humans and certain
>>other folk. Thus some fae have allied with vampyres... some have hunted
>>them. Depends on the individuals in question.

>It was always my understanding that the faeriekind and the vampyres
>were actually of the same ilk (different branches of the family tree).
>I know plenty of faeriekinds who prey on humans...

Traditionally, the Wild Hunt is also affiliated with the Seelie Courts
although there is the odd Unseelie Hunter. One is a Hunter within
one's spirit, not one's court affiliations. There was a time, to be
honest, when I and my kind would have hunted true vamps did we find
them...which I must admit, if I do know any they have not outed
themselves to me, and I never pry. But in modern times the old court
affiliations are becoming blurred. Personally, I do not hunt vamps
and I consider them friends and Otherkin as well, Otherkin being the
general term by which fae folke refer to themselves.

>>Vampyres quickly learned NOT to sup on most otherkin. Fae blood can do
>>really nasty things to a vampyre, and fae energies... particularly
>>glamour, can mess up a psyvamp like you wouldn't believe. This is not
>>always true, but is generally the norm.

>Actually, Dreamers, who are half-mortal, are very sought-after by the
>original purebloods. And we are ill-equipped to fight 'em off.

*smile* Imagine a psivamp fool enough to leech an elf. Vandale, one
day dearest we shall have to teach you trapshields.



>>These days... we get along. We're few and far between and there's safety
>>and comfort in numbers (regardless of how the vampyres value their
>>solitude and claim they need no one... there is still some value to this
>>point of view).

>Yes, the Vampyre and the Faerie are cousin and sibling both.

*nods*



>>I think it's still on a person by person basis, only more so. There is, at
>>the least, tolerance and acceptance of each other by both societies.
>>Recognition. Acknowledgement of honour and worth. And both groups have
>>their... "monsters".
>>
>>Me, I think most of 'em are fun to be around.
>>Entertaining sorts.

>You said it, elvish one. If little else, vampies and otherkind have
>their extreme eccentricity in common. ;)

I think what I find resonates with me about vampyres is the cheerful
darkness, if that makes sense. A lot of people both magickal and
mundane assume walking a dark path mean you must be evil, or sombre,
or both. It doesn't, and the vampyres understand that the darker
paths are simply other expressions of the nature of intelligent living
beings.

Too, some things are considered *dark* today that were not always
considered dark. Death, for example, as an object of humor. In our
society a morbid sense of humor is looked upon with suspicion because
we fear death. But there was a time when death was accepted as
casually as taxes are today, and considered a part of the Wheel.

>>But that's just me.
>>Th' Elf

>You and your Dreamer, elvish one.
>-little o (aka Van*&*)

Tiernan

<0o---<>---o0<Mistress of the Wild Hunt>0o---<>---o0>
RIP: FREEDOM OF SPEECH 1776-1996
http://www.nai.net/~jkline


jk0...@acad.drake.edu

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Feb 13, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/13/96
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Thank you all for your help and patience. YOur answers have been
quite...illuminating. Now, I have another question: Is there any way to
determine if someone is an elf--especially a female? Are ther any
distinguishing physical characteristic, like a birthmark or another kind of
mark? Again, I thank you for any assistance.

John

Barbara Jean Kuehl

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Feb 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/14/96
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From jk0...@acad.drake.edu:

> Is there any way to
> determine if someone is an elf--especially a female? Are ther any
> distinguishing physical characteristic, like a birthmark or another kind of
> mark?

Th'Elf can probably answer your question with more authority than
I can, since he has made a life's study. Myself, I have known a
few, so I'll tell you what I have learned.

All of the elves I have known are less than 100% elf, having had
their elven blood intermingled with human blood during their ancestry.
The elven side of them seems to come out most noticeably when they
are children. I suspect that 'human' is dominant over 'elf', but
that the human child state is most similar to the elven species.
Consequently, a human child with true elf blood is most noticeably
'elflike' when young.

What to look for? No distinguishing marks that I've ever heard of.
Slightly pointy ears can be one giveaway. Long, thin limbs and a
tiny torso is another. High forehead. Big eyes. Thin, curly,
wispy hair. A tendency to run and jump and prance a lot...to dream
and fantasize and sing in a high voice. An odd combination of
helplessness and fierce independence. Some human children with
elven blood may even exhibit magical powers. I knew one who could
become invisible.

The elven human matures more slowly than the full human. They may
remain small in stature or they may grow as large as an average-sized
human. They pointy ears, so noticeable when they were children,
usually become more round like human ears yet they may continue to
protrude ever so slightly. The ones I have known lost their magical
powers as they got older, but Th'Elf may know of others who have
not.

Anyway, this has been my experience with elves. Can anyone add
to this?


^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^

Cliff Goodman

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Feb 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/14/96
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(jk0...@acad.drake.edu) writes:
> Thank you all for your help and patience. YOur answers have been
> quite...illuminating. Now, I have another question: Is there any way to
> determine if someone is an elf--especially a female? Are ther any
> distinguishing physical characteristic, like a birthmark or another kind of
> mark? Again, I thank you for any assistance.
> John

Birthmark? Ummmmm... no.
There are certain physical characteristics but they do not all hold true.
One must look at the way she moves, how she is built, how she holds
herself, her frame and muscle, he body language, her eyes and soul. Also
attitudes and outlooks on a variety of things from personal ethics to
conscience (most elves are definable as "sociopathic" as elves are
commonly not born with a conscience to hold their personal moral system...
they have to develop their own).

*sigh* Okay, IN GENERAL elves are tallish, slim, svelte, wiry of build.
There are exceptions, usually in cases of great strength (external or
internal) or in positional specialization. Cheekbones are generally
pronounced, eyes are deep and expressive, muscle tone is high and strength
is proportionately greater than a human's. They tend to move like a cat,
fox, wolf or other animal and will identify with an animal (much like the
Nor Ind Totems).
Fingers are long and slim, and lips and eyes can easily let you know when
they're up to mischief.

Is that a good start?
Internal/intangible indications are usually better to look for.

Th' elf

jk0...@acad.drake.edu

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Feb 14, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/14/96
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Thanks Baby Jinx and Th' Elf. Again, you've been most helpful, and I
truely appreciate it. I'm not just asking these questions out of simple
curiosty, I do have a slightly alterior motive.
My short, and rather amusing story: A friend of my girlfriend has
her convinced that she is an elf queen. He says his ex-wife, his ex-fiancee,
and ANgie have a trait in common that is supposed to be the mark of an
elf queen, they all are missing a certain part of their . . .genitials. Angie
swear she doesn't remember what the part is. And, seeing as Angie's are the
only I've had experience with except for the diagrams in 5th grade sex ed 9
years ago,I'm not really qualified to guess :). But, from what I've seen, she's
all there.
Another symptom he mentioned. She told him of one morning she woke up
with a small, prefectly round bruise on her hand that she didn't remember
getting. Appearently he said this is another sign that's she's a queen.


OK, personally, I think he's feeding her a line of crap. But, I know
nothing about elves. SO, I thougt I'd come to the experts at alt.vampyres.
SO, is this possible? Is my g/f an elf queen? Or am I right, and he's full
of it up to his ears? Once again, thanks in advance.


John
In article <DMsDH...@freenet.carleton.ca>, be...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Cliff Goodman) writes:


>
> (jk0...@acad.drake.edu) writes:
>> Thank you all for your help and patience. YOur answers have been
>> quite...illuminating. Now, I have another question: Is there any way to
>> determine if someone is an elf--especially a female? Are ther any
>> distinguishing physical characteristic, like a birthmark or another kind of
>> mark? Again, I thank you for any assistance.
>> John
>

Cliff Goodman

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Feb 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/15/96
to

(jk0...@acad.drake.edu) writes:
> Thanks Baby Jinx and Th' Elf. Again, you've been most helpful, and I
> truely appreciate it. I'm not just asking these questions out of simple
> curiosty, I do have a slightly alterior motive.

Not a problem. Ignorance breeds fear and hate. Knowledge is a good thing.

> My short, and rather amusing story: A friend of my girlfriend has
> her convinced that she is an elf queen. He says his ex-wife, his ex-fiancee,
> and ANgie have a trait in common that is supposed to be the mark of an
> elf queen, they all are missing a certain part of their . . .genitials. Angie
> swear she doesn't remember what the part is. And, seeing as Angie's are the
> only I've had experience with except for the diagrams in 5th grade sex ed 9
> years ago,I'm not really qualified to guess :). But, from what I've seen, she's
> all there.

Well, first of all, nobility is made, not necessarily born. Yeah, yeah,
there's the Noble Sidhe, the High Aelfar... but they're harder on
themselves than most are. Perhaps she's got some of that blood in her...
but that doesn't automatically make her a queen. Hell, I haven't seen a
proper king or queen in... a long time. Long long. And they share
characteristics with most of the elven lines...
And missing a certain part of their genitilia is in NO WAY any form of
proof. That's laughable. That's sad at the same time. Nope, never met an
elf who weren't all there.

> Another symptom he mentioned. She told him of one morning she woke up
> with a small, prefectly round bruise on her hand that she didn't remember
> getting. Appearently he said this is another sign that's she's a queen.

There are a LOT of ways that could have occured. Nope, when they talk of
lost nobility it's always birthmarks...never bruises. Bruises go away.

> OK, personally, I think he's feeding her a line of crap. But, I know
> nothing about elves. SO, I thougt I'd come to the experts at alt.vampyres.
> SO, is this possible? Is my g/f an elf queen? Or am I right, and he's full
> of it up to his ears? Once again, thanks in advance.
> John

Crap. Most definitely crap. *sigh* I am less than impressed. Now, I don't
know whether your g/f is an elf or not, and couldn't tell without knowing
a lot more (information that does not require descriptions of either
genitilia nor bruises...) but it sounds like this guy knows nothing at all
and is using a line on her. Or, perhaps, he's actually psychotic and
believes this, in which case don't let him around...

Good luck
Th' Elf

jk0...@acad.drake.edu

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Feb 15, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/15/96
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Th' Elf, you have my eternal gratitude! I'm very relieved that he
is indeed feeding my g/f a line. Of course, now I'll have to think of some
appropriately painful way to deal with this guy, but won't be any real
problem. :) Let's see...its been a while since I've impaled anyone, summer of
'62 was SUCH a good year, I'll never forget the Sultan's face when he saw
the forest I'd planted for him.......but, I'm waxing nostalgic again. That life
is well behind me. ;)
Thanks again.


John

Mr C Newman

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Feb 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/19/96
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In article <1996Feb1...@acad.drake.edu>,

jk0...@acad.drake.edu writes:
>
> Thanks Baby Jinx and Th' Elf. Again, you've been most helpful, and I

[ Huge snip ]

> OK, personally, I think he's feeding her a line of crap. But, I know
>nothing about elves. SO, I thougt I'd come to the experts at alt.vampyres.
>SO, is this possible? Is my g/f an elf queen? Or am I right, and he's full
>of it up to his ears? Once again, thanks in advance.

You're right, he is. Having read Th'Elf's response to this, I know
I'm right in saying he is indeed full of it. Sounds like the sort
we verbally knock a lot of it out of, actually.

> John

I also agree with Th'Elf that he sounds like he could be a psycho.
Sounds dangerous to me, whether he is or not.
--
_________________-----_________________
"""""-----"""""""""""""""""""""-##()n()##-"""""""""""""""""""""-----"""""
____===**#**V**#**===____
***

Mr C Newman

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Feb 19, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/19/96
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> Th' Elf, you have my eternal gratitude! I'm very relieved that he
>is indeed feeding my g/f a line. Of course, now I'll have to think of some
>appropriately painful way to deal with this guy, but won't be any real
>problem. :) Let's see...its been a while since I've impaled anyone, summer of
>'62 was SUCH a good year, I'll never forget the Sultan's face when he saw
>the forest I'd planted for him.......but, I'm waxing nostalgic again. That life
>is well behind me. ;)
> Thanks again.

May I make a few suggestions?

A sword provides wonderful opportunities for ... artistry ...

A knife can be more precise, but it's so ... so ... alley-basher.

L98A1, wonderfully precise single-shot rifle with a 30 round magazine,
plus one up the spout, as they say. That means you get 30 rounds that
_don't_ have to be fatal ...

Convince _him_ that he's guilty of manipulations and attempted mind-
-control and a truly evil creature who must be destroyed ... and then
watch him go about ridding the Earth of the scourge that is him.

Send him bridge-swinging on a bungee rope. Dangle him in front of a
train.

If he claims to love your gf so much that wild horses couldn't drag
him away, prove him wrong ... (Thanks, whoever)

Hmm ... go through the entire prankthology and frame him for the lot.

jk0...@acad.drake.edu

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Feb 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/20/96
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Ahhhhh...such good ideas, one and all. I especially like the one with
the horses. The sword idea is also nice, get the whole Highlander thing going.
I've always said few things in life can compare to a good broad sword.
But a rifle? Don't get me wrong, I love firearms, but in this case, it doesn't
seem particularly fitting . . .though I can think of some ways to impliment my
.22 Mag with some hollow points, not leathal, but GAWD the pain!! Perhaps
I should put some more thought into this before I act in haste. I could have
fun for months this way! :)


JOhn

Vampy

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Feb 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/21/96
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Agreed, allthough one thing, what if the elven blood isn't intermingled
with human. I have a friend who is have elf, half mermaid. She's really
rather an interesting person. But, I agree to most of what you are saying
in the physicalities of an elf.

/~\_\~/_/~\
Gwenhyfar
Cymysg


Barbara Jean Kuehl

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Feb 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/22/96
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From article <00000A58...@prostar.com>, by va...@prostar.com (Vampy):

> Agreed, allthough one thing, what if the elven blood isn't intermingled
> with human. I have a friend who is have elf, half mermaid. She's really
> rather an interesting person. But, I agree to most of what you are saying
> in the physicalities of an elf.


I must admit, much as I get around, I don't know any mermaids,
so you'll have to clue us in on this one. How does her mermaidism
manifest? Does she have physical characteristics? How does it
appear that her elven characteristics and mermaid characteristics
have molded together?

^V^ Baby Jinx ^V^

"Seeing is not believing. Believing is seeing." - Judy the Elf


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