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Las Vegas prosoects of a MLB team

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flip

unread,
Feb 18, 2006, 12:37:10 PM2/18/06
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Hey gang, with pitchers and catchers reporting to spring training, I thought I
re-hash the prospects of Las Vegas getting an MLB team. Below are the
populations for major metropolitan areas, their teams (or lack of) and
their populations (2000 Census data). I sorted the table by the population
divided by the number of teams the city has (POP/# TEAMS). Granted,
population alone is not the reason for a city getting a team, but there
seems to be a correlation.
--flip,


RANK CITY TEAMS # TEAMS POP/# TEAMS 2000 POP 2005 WINS
1 New York Yankees 2 10,098,325 20,196,649 95
2 New York Mets 2 10,098,325 20,196,649 83
3 Las Angeles Angels 2 8,018,294 16,036,587 95
4 Las Angeles Dodgers 2 8,018,294 16,036,587 71
5 Philadelphia Phillies 1 5,999,034 5,999,034 88
6 Boston Red Sox 1 5,667,225 5,667,225 95
7 Detroit Tigers 1 5,469,312 5,469,312 71
8 Dallas/Fort Worth Rangers 1 4,909,523 4,909,523 79
9 Washington Nationals 1 4,739,999 4,739,999 81
10 Toronto  Blue Jays 1 4,558,800 4,558,800 80
11 Houston Astros 1 4,493,741 4,493,741 89
12 Chicago White Sox 2 4,442,960 8,885,919 99
13 Chicago Cubs 2 4,442,960 8,885,919 79
14 Atlanta Braves 1 3,857,097 3,857,097 90
15 Miami Marlins 1 3,711,102 3,711,102 83
16 Seattle Mariners 1 3,465,760 3,465,760 69
17 Oakland A's 2 3,436,823 6,873,645 88
18 San Francisco Giants 2 3,436,823 6,873,645 75
19 Phoenix Diamond Backs 1 3,013,696 3,013,696 77
20 Cleveland  Indians 1 2,910,616 2,910,616 93
21 Minneapolis/St Paul Twins 1 2,872,109 2,872,109 83
22 San Diego Padres 1 2,820,844 2,820,844 82
23 St Louis Cardinals 1 2,569,029 2,569,029 100
24 Baltimore Orioles 1 2,491,254 2,491,254 74
25 Denver Rockies 1 2,417,908 2,417,908 67
26 Pittsburgh Pirates 1 2,331,336 2,331,336 67
27 Tampa Bey Devil Rays 1 2,278,169 2,278,169 67
28 Portland No Team 0 2,180,996 2,180,996 No Team
29 Cincinatti Reds 1 1,960,995 1,960,995 73
30 Motreal No Team 0 1,851,746 1,851,746 No Team
31 Kansas City Royals 1 1,755,899 1,755,899 56
32 Sacramento No Team 0 1,741,002 1,741,002 No Team
33 Milwaukee Brewers 1 1,648,199 1,648,199 81
34 San Antonio No Team 0 1,564,949 1,564,949 No Team
35 Indianapolis No Team 0 1,536,665 1,536,665 No Team
36 Orlando No Team 0 1,535,004 1,535,004 No Team
37 Columbus No Team 0 1,489,487 1,489,487 No Team
38 Charlotte No Team 0 1,417,217 1,417,217 No Team
39 Las Vegas No Team 0 1,381,086 1,381,086 No Team
40 New Orleans No Team 0 1,305,479 1,305,479 No Team
41 Salt Lake City No Team 0 1,275,076 1,275,076 No Team
42 Winston-Salem No Team 0 1,179,384 1,179,384 No Team
43 Nashville No Team 0 1,171,755 1,171,755 No Team
44 Hartford No Team 0 1,147,504 1,147,504 No Team
45 Austin, Tx No Team 0 1,146,050 1,146,050 No Team
46 Raleigh-Durham No Team 0 1,105,535 1,105,535 No Team
47 Memphis No Team 0 1,105,058 1,105,058 No Team
48 Rochester, NY No Team 0 1,079,073 1,079,073 No Team
49 Jacksonville No Team 0 1,056,332 1,056,332 No Team
50 Grand Rapids No Team 0 1,052,092 1,052,092 No Team
51 West Palm Beach No Team 0 1,049,420 1,049,420 No Team
52 Oklahoma City No Team 0 1,046,283 1,046,283 No Team
53 Louisville No Team 0 1,005,849 1,005,849 No Team

luluandjunior

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Feb 18, 2006, 2:53:36 PM2/18/06
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Another way to rank is not by population but by the media market (DMA) rank since TV revenue is so important to botht the value of a team and the cash flow to the team. Looking at the list below you see that Las Vegas is ranked 48.
 
 
Top 50
 
RANK Designated Market Area (DMA) TV Homes % of US
1 New York 7,375,530 6.692
2 Los Angeles 5,536,430 5.023
3 Chicago 3,430,790 3.113
4 Philadelphia 2,925,560 2.654
5 Boston (Manchester) 2,375,310 2.155
6 San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 2,355,740 2.137
7 Dallas-Ft. Worth 2,336,140 2.120
8 Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 2,252,550 2.044
9 Atlanta 2,097,220 1.903
10 Houston 1,938,670 1.759
11 Detroit 1,936,350 1.757
12 Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 1,710,400 1.552
13 Seattle-Tacoma 1,701,950 1.544
14 Phoenix (Prescott) 1,660,430 1.507
15 Minneapolis-St. Paul 1,652,940 1.500
16 Cleveland-Akron (Canton) 1,541,780 1.399
17 Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 1,522,960 1.382
18 Denver 1,415,180 1.284
19 Sacramnto-Stkton-Modesto 1,345,820 1.221
20 Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn 1,345,700 1.221
21 St. Louis 1,222,380 1.109
22 Pittsburgh 1,169,800 1.061
23 Portland, OR 1,099,890 0.998
24 Baltimore 1,089,220 0.988
25 Indianapolis 1,053,750 0.956
26 San Diego 1,026,160 0.931
27 Charlotte 1,020,130 0.926
28 Hartford & New Haven 1,013,350 0.919
29 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle) 985,200 0.894
30 Nashville 927,500 0.842
31 Kansas City 903,540 0.820
32 Columbus, OH 890,770 0.808
33 Milwaukee 880,390 0.799
34 Cincinnati 880,190 0.799
35 Greenvll-Spart-Ashevll-And 815,460 0.740
36 Salt Lake City 810,830 0.736
37 San Antonio 760,410 0.690
38 West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce 751,930 0.682
39 Grand Rapids-Kalmzoo-B.Crk 731,630 0.664
40 Birmingham (Ann, Tusc) 716,520 0.650
41 Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York 707,010 0.641
42 Norfolk-Portsmth-Newpt Nws 704,810 0.640
43 New Orleans 672,150 0.610
44 Memphis 657,670 0.597
45 Oklahoma City 655,400 0.595
46 Albuquerque-Santa Fe 653,680 0.593
47 Greensboro-H.Point-W.Salem 652,020 0.592
48 Las Vegas 651,110 0.591
49 Buffalo 644,430 0.585
50 Louisville
 
 

David Berman

unread,
Feb 18, 2006, 3:45:07 PM2/18/06
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The Red Sox are an example of a team for whom such market size/population correlations really don't work. They are regarded as "New England's Team," widely and deeply popular with residents throughout most of a six-state region (excluding pockets of Yankee Country in CT). Their radio and TV network is designed to blanket that region, and fans find it no great inconvenience to travel to Boston for games.
 
In the long run, the problem with Las Vegas is not the association with legalized gambling. Rather, it is (a) the fact that there are too many other entertainment distractions to build a strong base of team loyalty and support, and (2) the vast majority of people living here came from somewhere else.
 
--David/NV
Hey gang, with pitchers and catchers reporting to spring training, I thought I

Scott

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Feb 18, 2006, 4:02:59 PM2/18/06
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Not sure where you got the Montreal population from, but it's somewhat
higher (around 3.6m) than that, as the number you listed is probably just
the city itself, and none of the burbs. Also, add Vancouver, Canada in
there with a population of approx 2.2million well ahead of Las Vegas.

At least players wouldn't die of heat stroke playing here in Vancouver

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Dick G.

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Feb 18, 2006, 5:28:36 PM2/18/06
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To the best of my knowledge nobody has died of the heat in Phoenix because
they had the smarts to build a domed stadium.

Please also note that both Cincinnati and Milwaukee, well down on the list,
have major league teams.
--
DG in Cherry Hill, NJ

"Scott" <a8d...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
news:3lekc3x...@recgroups.com...

BR Eagle

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Feb 18, 2006, 5:52:04 PM2/18/06
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"David Berman" <davi...@cox.net> wrote in message news:6HLJf.140$LG3.133@fed1read01...
The Red Sox are an example of a team for whom such market size/population correlations really don't work. They are regarded as "New England's Team," widely and deeply popular with residents throughout most of a six-state region (excluding pockets of Yankee Country in CT). Their radio and TV network is designed to blanket that region, and fans find it no great inconvenience to travel to Boston for games.
 
In the long run, the problem with Las Vegas is not the association with legalized gambling. Rather, it is (a) the fact that there are too many other entertainment distractions to build a strong base of team loyalty and support, and (2) the vast majority of people living here came from somewhere else.
 
--David/NV
 
David,
Is that a problem in the NHL?  That said I agree with your first point, but one advantage that Vegas has over other cities on the list is MONEY.  New Orleans suffers due to the lack of Fortune 500 cities with HQs in the city/region.  Care to guess what they only Fortune 500 company left in Louisiana?
Personally, I think gambling is what will keep MLB and the NFL out of Vegas.

flip

unread,
Feb 18, 2006, 11:39:16 PM2/18/06
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This isn't unique to the Red Sox. I think all teams are--to some extent,
regional. Probably the best example of this is the Toronto Blue Jays.
They are now Canada's team. The St. Louis Cardinals also have a huge
regional following. And for some reason, there are a disproportionate
number of Cubs fans here in Minneapolis,
--flip,


David Berman wrote:

> The Red Sox are an example of a team for whom such market
> size/population correlations really don't work. They are regarded as
> "New England's Team," widely and deeply popular with residents
> throughout most of a six-state region (excluding pockets of Yankee
> Country in CT). Their radio and TV network is designed to blanket that
> region, and fans find it no great inconvenience to travel to Boston
> for games.
>
> In the long run, the problem with Las Vegas is not the association
> with legalized gambling. Rather, it is (a) the fact that there are too
> many other entertainment distractions to build a strong base of team
> loyalty and support, and (2) the vast majority of people living here
> came from somewhere else.
>
> --David/NV
>
> "flip" <never_send_spam@or_to_me.com

> <mailto:never_send_spam@or_to_me.com>> wrote in message

Scott

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 3:14:57 PM2/19/06
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> Please also note that both Cincinnati and Milwaukee, well down on the list,
> have major league teams.

Wow, how about that. Two places with SIGNIFICANTLY more population than
Vegas. Both also have even larger populations within a 2hr drive. I
think a fairer "Does a team qualify" would be population within 30 miles +
1/2 population within 200 km, in which case Vegas does very poorly as it's
near nothing (Wow let's count Boulder City!)

Am I missing something vital to Vegas' bid for baseball?

And again my comment stands, Vancouver stands a better chance of getting
MLB than Vegas.

Sr.

unread,
Feb 19, 2006, 11:06:52 PM2/19/06
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AND WHAT ABOUT PITTSBERG?!?!?! ALWAYS WALL REMEMBER THE LATE AND GREAT JACK
BUCK TELLING MIKE SHANNON TO GO AND COUNT THE PEOPLE IN THE STANDS BETWEEN
INNINGS...FALED TO DRAW MUCH OF A CROWD...
=SEN0UR TR0UT=


--
Have A Great Day...


"Scott" <a8d...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message

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Big Mikey

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Feb 24, 2006, 1:15:26 AM2/24/06
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Disagree David.  MLB is real paranoid about the gambling.  I think Portland or Louisville will come first. 
 
Big Mikey
 
"David Berman" <davi...@cox.net> wrote in message news:6HLJf.140$LG3.133@fed1read01...

Big Mikey

unread,
Feb 24, 2006, 1:16:53 AM2/24/06
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And in the NFL, go figure the Green Bay Packers....

Big Mikey

"Dick G." <dickdotgoldhaber@gmaildotcom> wrote in message
news:572dnfcV1tO...@comcast.com...

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