give in with you
marika
you can't make me hate clintons more than I already do
I am picking up what the news article said they said.
the problem had to do far less with predatory lenders than with predatory
investors.
Investors will buy whatever appears to be a good investment.
it's the brokers who sold the crap bonds that were backed by crap subprimes
but due to lack of transparency of the instruments no one could tell for
sure what the investments were that were backing the investments.
most of it was hidden in complicated hedge funds and other investments.
many many layers of so called new creative instruments.
it's the middle man asshole -- the same one from Enron -- that caused this
mess.
The brokers figured out how to create these "exciting" new instruments that
were higher yield but they appeared to be backed by something other than the
subprimes.
Most people were impressed by the yields and most pensions and 401 ks
invested in them, but had no idea that the real collateral was crap
mortgages.
It was exactly the same scheme as enron, only now instead of a few pension
funds in texas, it took on the entire global market
see eg Carlyle group, how they have gone bankrupt in Holland buying these
crap securities that these brokers slapped together dishonestly
and the subprime lenders were happy to provide because these investors were
willing to buy the nonsense, put it through several phony transactions to
hide what it really was,
it's not the predatory lenders that all these proposals will stop. It will
cool legit credit.
What's really a problem here is that everyone with a mutual fund, hedge
fund, 401 k or roth account or profit sharing got hit by these dishonest
investors. So everyone's portfolio throughout the nation got devalued.
people keeping a few dollars in their savings accounts mutual funds with
their ordinary banks got hit.
the problem also hit international funds.
It's a global problem that needs to be fixed now and not by setting up litte
government agencies that won't do anything for years.
Think FEma, is New Orleans better off today?
nope.
it seriously threatens international economy this time around and some of
what the fed did helped but it was also unprecedented what they did. Buying
out bear stearns was completely and totally something they had never done
before. it's scary actually that they engineered the buy out.
They're going to have to do the same thing with a few other similar
investment firms before it is all over.
and the little guy who believed in these pension funds will lose a lot of
money, and so will people with cash in banks because their mutual funds are
in banks backed by these subprimes
here we go again -- enron again
who decides what is a predatory loan, how much infrastructure (government of
course) do they need to set up the application process to determine who is
predatory and who was just an honest investor, what's the criteria. how
long will it take to implement all this and how much does it cost.
whatever relief is necessary is necessary now, and to keep the economy from
foundering.
3 years from now they will finally do something and by then the whole thing
is sunk, the houses are lost to foreclosures. it's nonsense
I could look up the post Enron crap that Bush supposedly implemented. It
was a joke -- additional regulations. added on to regulations that already
existed that no one enforced in the first place.i considered it a con then
and note that it remains so
so now obclintonmcainfuck will add more regulations and still not enforce
them especially when an investor finds a sweet scam like enron and the
mortgage industry and then the regulators will look the other way
again
because their hedge funds are all invested (through many layers of hiding)
in just those predatory investment schemes
enron act 1, mortage act 2. it is just a little while til act 3.
You need to remember that I don't like clinton, bush or baraclintoncain
they are just all full of it
mk5000
marika
"marika" <marik...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:...
Dad gone it-baby!
(that he struck you-a crescendo annie)
Hoo! hoo!
marika
whole obama speech which is now on youtube. She thinks I may be conflating
all 3 of them and she is right. she heard outtkaes of all 3 speeches on pbs
and what I'm sayin she think sounds like Hillary, 'resucing' homeowners.
The way I am saying what they said is NOT what she heard. she didn't agree
with all of it nor understand how it all would work, but some of it sounded
really good. \\\\\
Obama said to regulate all mortage providers the same, banks and brokers cuz
now only banks are subject and brokers can go hog wild which is what led to
the problem. He said to only help the homeowners who were subject to
predatory loans, and to restructure the loans so people could pay them,
which doesn't cost taxpayers anything, only the companies that made
imprudent loans.
He is definitely calling for bringing back regulations of the financial
industry that were done away with by CLINTON and Bush. I don't know about
bush strenghething regs after Enron.
I do know this is very complicated, and I think you need to look at the
whole thing before jumping to making comments.
But I keep telling my sister that we don't need more regulations, but to
fund those that already exist, fund them adequately, so that there is a
belief by the investors that there is a real repercussion
Yeah I know the proud JagYOOOar and Land Rover, belonging to the INDIANS for
chrissake. How humiliating!
marika
I say
1. This is Enron revisited. And the solution for Enron as provided by Bush
was to tighten up control over Wall St. I was left with the question -- the
existing laws were supposed to be good enough. So Bush tightened up
controls and things went kablooey. Obama hasn't proposed a change as far as
I can tell
2. what the hell do they mean by rescue homeowners. Most of the plans for
rescuing homeowners include tying the hands of the mortage industry and
forcing them to accept changes in contracts no one asked for. So what's
going to happen. no one will be able to give mortgages for the next 2o
years unless you are willing to put 50 percent down, because they don't want
the risk of a company coming in and changing the rates they originally
contracted for. Long term bad for the economy. probably worse than letting
the bubble ride and adjust on its own. why are we punishing the responsible
lenders by lumping them in with the high risk mortgage companies.
3. new job retraining program? Just like the 70s? Like Nixon had. HE wa
the most liberal economically of any republican
4. the government needs to not displace workers in the first place. IT's
nafta that started it. Bush's stupid programs continued to promote
offshoring and exporting jobs. Did you know that INdia just bought Rover
and some other british car manufacturing concern from FORD. INDIA FOR
CHRISSAKES
All 3 of these candidates are disappointing
Obama, Clinton Offer Economic Plans
By DEVLIN BARRETT and BETH FOUHY (Associated Press Writers)
From Associated Press
March 27, 2008 8:14 PM EDT
NEW YORK - Democrat Barack Obama said Thursday a firmer government hand is
needed on Wall Street and a $30 billion stimulus is needed to rescue
homeowners and the jobless. Rival Hillary Rodham Clinton called for a new
job retraining program to remedy what both candidates derided as Republican
indifference to a sputtering economy.
Both Obama and Clinton argued that Republican nominee-in-waiting John McCain
isn't ready or willing to handle an economic emergency.
"The phone is ringing, and he would just let it ring and ring," Clinton
said, echoing the "3 a.m. phone call" TV ad she used earlier to suggest she
was more qualified than Obama to handle a national security crisis. Speaking
in Raleigh, N.C., she chastised McCain for opposing government intervention
in the nation's credit and mortgage crisis.
Clinton focused on job insecurity and said the government needed to take
more responsibility for helping displaced workers. The state holds its
primary May 5.
"Our government is more focused on how you lost your job than how you can
find a new one," Clinton said. "And while we have been rightly focused on
trying to help people who are out of work, there's been too little thought
and effort to help people gain new skills while they still have their
existing jobs."
Among other things, the former first lady called for a new program to extend
federal aid known as Pell Grants to workers enrolled in education programs
aimed at updating their skills. She also promoted a pre-emptive training
initiative to allow workers concerned about potential threats to their jobs
to receive grants to help transition into other industries.
While many of the two Democrats' ideas on the economy overlap, Obama laid
out six different areas where he would stiffen regulations of the financial
system. He proposed relief for homeowners and the long-term unemployed as
part of an additional $30 billion stimulus package, much like the one
Clinton offered last week.
He said outdated government regulations have fallen dangerously behind the
realities of modern finance.
"We do American business - and the American people - no favors when we turn
a blind eye to excessive leverage and dangerous risks," Obama said.
The presidential candidate spoke not far from Wall Street, which has been
suffering from the aftereffects of the collapse of the housing market and a
credit crunch. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, the almost candidate,
warmly introduced Obama but stopped short of an endorsement.
The economic setbacks of recent months, Obama argued, show hardships long
felt by middle class Americans had now spread everywhere.
"Pain trickles up," he said.
"If we can extend a hand to banks on Wall Street, we can extend a hand to
Americans who are struggling," he said.
Bemoaning the nation's economic woes, Obama, like Clinton, dismissed
McCain's approach as pure hands-off. On Tuesday, McCain derided government
intervention to save and reward banks or small borrowers who behave
irresponsibly though he offered few immediate alternatives for fixing the
country's growing housing crisis. Obama said McCain's plan "amounts to
little more than watching this crisis happen."
Instead, Obama said, the next president should:
-Expand oversight to any institution that borrows from the government.
-Toughen capital requirements for complex financial instruments like
mortgage securities.
-Streamline regulatory agencies to end overlap and competition among
regulators.
While he laid out a half-dozen principles for closer scrutiny of the
financial markets, he did not detail how the different agencies should be
organized or exactly how the government should go about peering over the
shoulders of bank executives, though aides said later the Federal Reserve
would have to assume a greater role.
Although Obama blamed both Republican and Democratic administrations for
letting markets get out of control, he took a particular swipe at Clinton's
husband, former President Bill Clinton, without naming him explicitly. Obama
said outdated bank regulation needed to be reformed in the 1990s, but "by
the time the Glass-Steagall Act was repealed in 1999, the $300 million
lobbying effort that drove deregulation was more about facilitating mergers
than creating an efficient regulatory framework." President Clinton signed
that repeal.
"Unfortunately, instead of establishing a 21st century regulatory framework,
we simply dismantled the old one, aided by a legal but corrupt bargain in
which campaign money all too often shaped policy and watered down
oversight," Obama said in a thinly veiled reference to Bill Clinton's
oft-repeated promise to build a bridge to the 21st century.
Both Democrats reserved most of their criticism for McCain, but Clinton
policy director Neera Tanden later dismissed Obama's proposals as either
mimicking ideas the New York senator had already offered, or, in the case of
regulatory changes, a "broad series of vague principles."
Obama advisers said the regulatory changes he was offering are designed to
be starting points for legislative and executive changes to come.
Even before the Democrats delivered their speeches, McCain said in a
statement, "There is a tendency for liberals to seek big government programs
that sock it to American taxpayers while failing to solve the very real
problems we face."
The political debate comes as a new government report shows the economy
nearly sputtered out at the end of the year and is probably faring even
worse amid continuing housing, credit and financial crises.
The Commerce Department reported that gross domestic product - the value of
all goods and services produced in the country - increased at a feeble 0.6
percent annual rate in the October-to-December quarter. The reading -
unchanged from a previous estimate a month ago - provided stark evidence of
just how much the economy has weakened. In the prior quarter, the economy
clocked in at a sizzling 4.9 percent growth rate.
marika
robotic and not the charismatic knock you over in your seat svengali he is
made out to be
so did he say the classic i don't care if people are purple line or did he
resort to typical white person again
marika
be a classic on youtube.
Actually her clip was just the test to see if it was working and that was
2mb! The next two (which are on you tube) are 50mb each, for 3 stinkin'
minutes.
Yeah, he asked for CHANGE, and what time it was, and what time it REALLY
was.
Isn't that amazing about no backs of heads in the tape???? That's the main
feature of this camera - the lens swivels so you can point the lens above
stuff in front of you. she took one picture with my cellphone camera and
that's a beauty of a head back.
He was at Cooper Union giving the 'Economy' speech. They said all the
tickets went to students but she said what the heck she got in line ½ hr
beforehand and there were just enough left! The Great Hall only seats about
600. There wasn't anything about it on any websites including his, the
news, nothing, last nite, she I just happened across a Cooper Union's
student's blog and it said 'obama in ny tomorrow' and she thought it was
old, from November when he was here before and then she realized OHMIGOD
tomorrow!
It was 'historic' in that Lincoln gave his famous pre nomination speech
there too, there's a plaque on the outside of the building commemorating it
and of course the speaker who introduced him said 'another senator from
Illinois is here today to speak'
When he came out he said 'I heard someone else gave a speech here and it was
pretty good, so the bar is high'.
she said He sounds a lot less clipped and robotic in person, he did not have
the speech written down in front of him, there was a teleprompter but he
never looked at it, he looked at the back of the audience the whole time.
marika
didn't have to do any file conversion or anything.
she apologized the first one is so jumpy, but stick thru the end the last
30 sec are funny. By the second one she got the hang of holding the camera
still plus she thinks she found the image stabilization button.
In the very beginning of the first one you won't understand what he says, so
here it is:
'because I expect payback with something more expensive'
'I'm no dummy. The mayor was a cheap date that morning. There are lots of
good steakhouses in New York City'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2FbJ8tw6Cs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoiPOTW3zNc