a usage of 'to hear'
Palia
["The envoy's delicate health had taken great benefit from Bombay, and after
his week of sea-sickness his strength and spirits recovered remarkably. He
and Stephen often sat together, *hearing one another their Malay verbs* or
rehearsing his address to the Sultan of Kampong." (H.M.S. Surprise. Patrick
O'Brian)]
The above use of the verb "to hear" I do not understand. It seems to have
two direct objects (or it is a mix of reflexive and transitive?)
1. Is it an antique use of the verb? (O'Brian writes of the later 18th
century and earlier 19th century and perhaps he deliberately makes his style
of that period?)
3. May one use this structure with other verbs and say such as "Peter
understands John his motives" (or "They understand each other their motives"
if it must be reflexive) or "Peter spoke John his mind"?
thankyou.
James Hogg
It's sense 4c of "hear" in the OED:
"With two objects, as to hear (one) his lessons: to listen to the
recitation of his lessons."
One of the examples is from 1811: "He hears some of the younger ones
their lessons."
No one would use a construction like this any more, with "hear" or your
example with "understand". "Peter spoke John his mind" sounds odd too,
although an identical construction is all right in "Peter told John his
opinion."
--
James
contrex
> 1. Is it an antique use of the verb? (O'Brian writes of the later 18th
> century and earlier 19th century and perhaps he deliberately makes his style
> of that period?)
Yes. Patrick O'Brian's dialogue is famous for its period authenticity.
Robert Lieblich
Was the use of "each other" different back then? -- "He and Stephen
often sat together, hearing one another their Malay verbs."
--
Bob Lieblich
Who wasn't around at the time
Robert Bannister
> Hello to all.
>
> ["The envoy's delicate health had taken great benefit from Bombay, and after
> his week of sea-sickness his strength and spirits recovered remarkably. He
> and Stephen often sat together, *hearing one another their Malay verbs* or
> rehearsing his address to the Sultan of Kampong." (H.M.S. Surprise. Patrick
> O'Brian)]
>
> The above use of the verb "to hear" I do not understand. It seems to have
> two direct objects (or it is a mix of reflexive and transitive?)
>
> 1. Is it an antique use of the verb? (O'Brian writes of the later 18th
> century and earlier 19th century and perhaps he deliberately makes his style
> of that period?)
The first time I read an O'Brian book, I thought "clever, he's done
research on historical language use". When I read the second, I thought
"he's making this stuff up". I never bothered to read a third.
--
Rob Bannister
Bohgosity BumaskiL
as
"listening to each other's Malay".
_______
Vital papers will demonstrate their vitality by moving from where you left
them to where you cannot find them.
"Palia" <pa...@nulle.com> wrote in message
news:7mkaucF...@mid.individual.net...
contrex
> The first time I read an O'Brian book, I thought "clever, he's done
> research on historical language use". When I read the second, I thought
> "he's making this stuff up". I never bothered to read a third.
I have read 21, and I never, ever got that impression.
Palia
"contrex" <mike.j...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:159151f3-96d7-42da...@p19g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...
Thankyou contrex. I am reading the third in the serial (Mauritius Command)
and I find them most stimulating. The style seems appropriate, from my small
knowledge of English. I have familiarity with Jane Austen and some Dickens
and the tenor sounds to be similar (but much more exciting!) I do not
understand really the "which" that seems to precede the sentences of
Preserved Killick. Again I ask, is this regional or a style of the era?
Thankyou.
contrex
> I do not
> understand really the "which" that seems to precede the sentences of
> Preserved Killick. Again I ask, is this regional or a style of the era?
I believe it is a style of the era. It is not, as far I know, used now
here in England.
contrex
> Thankyou contrex. I am reading the third in the serial (Mauritius Command)
> and I find them most stimulating. The style seems appropriate, from my small
> knowledge of English. I have familiarity with Jane Austen and some Dickens
> and the tenor sounds to be similar (but much more exciting!) I do not
> understand really the "which" that seems to precede the sentences of
> Preserved Killick. Again I ask, is this regional or a style of the era?
>
> Thankyou.
I have wondered about this myself. I believe it is a style of the era.
CDB
"prefatory 'which'"; you get many irrelevant hits. The SOED(3) has,
under "which", "II. 9. (/as pron. or adj./) With pleonastic personal
pronoun or equivalent in the latter part of the relative clause,
referring to the antecedent, /which/ thus serving merely to link the
clauses together. late ME.
*b*. Hence, in vulgar use, without any antecedent as a mere connective
or introductory particle 1723."
The examples given are "The history of myself, w., I could not die in
peace unless I left it as a legacy to the world. STERNE." and "*b*. If
anything 'appens to you -- w. God be between you and 'arm -- I'll look
after the kids 1905."
Anybody with OED access care to see if they have expanded on the
subject?
Mike Lyle
[...]
> It's very hard to search for phrases like "introductory 'which'" or
> "prefatory 'which'"; you get many irrelevant hits. The SOED(3) has,
> under "which", "II. 9. (/as pron. or adj./) With pleonastic personal
> pronoun or equivalent in the latter part of the relative clause,
> referring to the antecedent, /which/ thus serving merely to link the
> clauses together. late ME.
> *b*. Hence, in vulgar use, without any antecedent as a mere connective
> or introductory particle 1723."
>
> The examples given are "The history of myself, w., I could not die in
> peace unless I left it as a legacy to the world. STERNE." and "*b*. If
> anything 'appens to you -- w. God be between you and 'arm -- I'll look
> after the kids 1905."
>
> Anybody with OED access care to see if they have expanded on the
> subject?
OED has the same definition (so the Shorter clearly copied verbatim),
but gives four examples, including a NAm one --Bret Harte in 1870.
--
Mike.