Pronouncing "species".
Bob Martin
I watched Horizon on BBC2 last night and everyone seemed to pronounce "species"
as spee-sheez. I've always said it as spee-siz, and can't think of another word ending
in -cies which might get that "sheez" treatment.
James Hogg
The spee-sheez pronunciation is the only one given by Daniel Jones in
his British Pronouncing Dictionary, by Kenyon and Knott in the American
equivalent, and in the OED. The COD has your pronunciation as an
alternative.
Facies is a parallel. The consonant is pronounced as in facial and special.
--
James
Ian Jackson
<Jas....@gOUTmail.com> writes
drift between 'spee-sheez' and 'spee-shiz'.
--
Ian
Stan Brown
I've never heard it any other way than -sheez, except on TV
originating in the UK.
AHD4 has "shez, sez" in writing, but its audio has only -shez. (All
the e's have macrons on them, of course.)
The word for coin (as opposed to paper currency), specie, gets the
same treatment.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...
Stan Brown
And facie also: I've heard only -sh- in the phrase "prima facie".
Bob Martin
Yes, I've heard "spee-shiz" (Southern England and I'm almost 70) but not noticed
"spee-sheez" before.
M'lud, I refer you to http://itools.subhashbose.com/wordfind/ending-with/cies
John Dunlop
(re the pron. of "species")
> In practice, I think you'll find that British pronunciation tends to
> drift between 'spee-sheez' and 'spee-shiz'.
The Longman Pronunciation Dictionary notes that some speakers pronounce
the singular with "iz" and the plural with "eez".
--
John
Bob Martin
My original query was about the pronunciation of the letter "c" in "species".
James Hogg
Conversations tend to drift here. I think we have established that most
people use a "sh" sound, as in "special".
--
James
MC
James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
> Conversations tend to drift here. I think we have established that most
> people use a "sh" sound, as in "special".
When I first crossed the pond (R->L) I pronounced "issue" as "iSSue" but
now I say "iSHue"
--
"If you can, tell me something happy."
- Marybones
Ian Jackson
<Jas....@gOUTmail.com> writes
There are variations in the pronunciation of "speciality"
('spesh-ee-al-i-tee' vs 'speshal-tee', but the "ci" is still a 'sh'.
There are several other words where "ci" gets a 'sh':
spacious
specious
precious
facial
provincial
etc.
But I can't instantly think of those with a "cie".
--
Ian
Athel Cornish-Bowden
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> said:
I think the old "i before e except after c" rule gets rid of most of them.
The SOED allows "cieling" as a spelling of "ceiling" but I've never
seen it spelled like that.
--
athel
Athel Cornish-Bowden
The -seez pronunciation is less common, but it's not unknown,
especially (it is my impression) among those who use the word a lot.
I don't think I use either to the complete exclusion of the other.
--
athel
James Silverton
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 09:12:58 +0100, James Hogg wrote:
>>
>> Bob Martin wrote:
> >> I watched Horizon on BBC2 last night and everyone seemed to
> >> pronounce "species" as spee-sheez. I've always said it as
> >> spee-siz, and can't think of another word ending in -cies
> >> which might get that "sheez" treatment.
>>
>> The spee-sheez pronunciation is the only one given by Daniel
>> Jones in his British Pronouncing Dictionary, by Kenyon and
>> Knott in the American equivalent, and in the OED. The COD
>> has your pronunciation as an alternative.
>>
>> Facies is a parallel. The consonant is pronounced as in
>> facial and special.
> And facie also: I've heard only -sh- in the phrase "prima facie".
It's the only pronunciation I recall in US usage for "prima facie" and
the "c" in species is usually pronounced as /s/. What other common use
for "facie" is there except for "prima facie"? Strangely enough, the
/S/ pronunciation for "species" comes to my mind in the name of
Darwin's book but the "s" in technical discussion of species.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
R H Draney
"Ancient", "proficient", and others with the "-cient" ending....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Skitt
> Bob Martin wrote:
>> I watched Horizon on BBC2 last night and everyone seemed to
>> pronounce "species" as spee-sheez. I've always said it as spee-siz,
>> and can't think of another word ending in -cies which might get
>> that "sheez" treatment.
>
> I've never heard it any other way than -sheez, except on TV
> originating in the UK.
>
> AHD4 has "shez, sez" in writing, but its audio has only -shez. (All
> the e's have macrons on them, of course.)
>
> The word for coin (as opposed to paper currency), specie, gets the
> same treatment.
I say it with an s, not sh. Maybe I'm weird.
Just in the last few days I heard people on TV pronouncing the word
"groceries" as grosheries. Is that unusual, or have I been missing a
lot of what's being said?
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt
MC
wrote:
> Just in the last few days I heard people on TV pronouncing the word
> "groceries" as grosheries. Is that unusual, or have I been missing a
> lot of what's being said?
Maybe it was Sean Connery?
Joe Fineman
Dogs in the country have fun.
They run and run and run.
But in the city this species
Is dragged around on leashes. -- Ogden Nash
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net
||: The nail that sticks up gets hammered down, or something :||
||: gets hung on it, or it gets pulled out. :||
Garrett Wollman
>Just in the last few days I heard people on TV pronouncing the word
>"groceries" as grosheries. Is that unusual, or have I been missing a
>lot of what's being said?
Sounds unusual (there's another one) to me. But let's not forget that
/s/ and /S/ are extremely close in their point of articulation; in
some languages they are the same phoneme.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Jerry Friedman
Common in my youth. I might say it. When I was in college, there was
a popular local band called the Groceries, and one or two of my
friends called them "the Shrees". (This was the early '80s, the era
of za with roni and shrooms.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Hire high school girls!
John Varela
<g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> In message <MPG.27a8668fb...@news.individual.net>
> Stan Brown <the_sta...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 07:44:12 GMT, Bob Martin wrote:
> >>
> >> I watched Horizon on BBC2 last night and everyone seemed to
> >> pronounce "species" as spee-sheez. I've always said it as spee-siz,
> >> and can't think of another word ending in -cies which might get
> >> that "sheez" treatment.
>
> > I've never heard it any other way than -sheez, except on TV
> > originating in the UK.
>
> I've been whispering it to myself whilst following along and people
> around me are starting to wonder what the hell is wrong with me, so.
>
> I say Spee-seez; I might sometimes lisp it to a slight sheez sound,
> but not normally. It is exactly like feces or Aziz.
I'm pleased to see that we agree on something.
--
John Varela
rwalker
>
>I say it with an s, not sh. Maybe I'm weird.
>
>Just in the last few days I heard people on TV pronouncing the word
>"groceries" as grosheries. Is that unusual, or have I been missing a
>lot of what's being said?
>--
>Skitt (SF Bay Area)
>http://come.to/skitt
Not to my ears. I'm in upstate New York, lived all around the U.S.,
have a Ph.D. in biological sciences, and virtually everyone I talk to
and work with, including many biological scientists of various
specialties, says it with an "s" not an "sh."
CDB
> Ian Jackson filted:
>> James Hogg
>> <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> writes
>>> Bob Martin wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My original query was about the pronunciation of the letter "c"
>>>> in "species".
>>>
>>> Conversations tend to drift here. I think we have established
>>> that most people use a "sh" sound, as in "special".
>>>
>> I think that everybody says 'sh' in "special".
>>
similar in principle to the middle bit of "injun". I wonder if anyone
pronounces "species" / spi:sji:z/ or / spi:si?i:z/.
>>
>> There are variations in the pronunciation of "speciality"
>> ('spesh-ee-al-i-tee' vs 'speshal-tee', but the "ci" is still a
>> 'sh'.
>>
>> There are several other words where "ci" gets a 'sh':
>> spacious
>> specious
>> precious
>> facial
>> provincial
>> etc.
>> But I can't instantly think of those with a "cie".
>
> "Ancient", "proficient", and others with the "-cient" ending....r
>>
James Hogg
I've never heard any of those pronounced with "sh".
--
James
CDB
Jerry Friedman
> In message <MPG.27a8668fb8d060f298c...@news.individual.net>
> Stan Brown <the_stan_br...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 07:44:12 GMT, Bob Martin wrote:
>
> >> I watched Horizon on BBC2 last night and everyone seemed to
> >> pronounce "species" as spee-sheez. I've always said it as spee-siz,
> >> and can't think of another word ending in -cies which might get
> >> that "sheez" treatment.
> > I've never heard it any other way than -sheez, except on TV
> > originating in the UK.
>
> around me are starting to wonder what the hell is wrong with me, so.
>
> I say Spee-seez; I might sometimes lisp it to a slight sheez sound,
> but not normally. It is exactly like feces or Aziz.
I suppose I should point out that a lot of Americans pronounce "feces"
as "fee-sheez" /'fiSiz/. I'd guess that's from the influence of
"species".
I think I might say either /'spisiz/ or /'spiSiz/.
--
Jerry Friedman
Mike Lyle
I say "pr-eye-ma facey". But "speesheez". Further on "species",
numerous packers of bulbs for the British market print "specie
crocuses" on the label - perhaps to reassure us that we're not going
to open the bag and find only a crocual promissory note.
--
Mike.
Roland Hutchinson
> I say "pr-eye-ma facey". But "speesheez". Further on "species", numerous
> packers of bulbs for the British market print "specie crocuses" on the
> label - perhaps to reassure us that we're not going to open the bag and
> find only a crocual promissory note.
Ah, the promise of spring.
--
Roland Hutchinson
He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
Stan Brown
> I suppose I should point out that a lot of Americans pronounce "feces"
> as "fee-sheez" /'fiSiz/. I'd guess that's from the influence of
> "species".
Really? I've never heard that (mid-Atlantic and Midwest), and AHD4
gives only the "s" sound.
What region are you in?
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...
rwalker
>I suppose I should point out that a lot of Americans pronounce "feces"
>as "fee-sheez" /'fiSiz/. I'd guess that's from the influence of
>"species".
>
>I think I might say either /'spisiz/ or /'spiSiz/.
>
>--
>Jerry Friedman
What part of the U.S. are you in? I've never heard that for feces. As
I pointed out in another post, I work in the biological sciences, and
never hear species with the "sh" sound.
Am. E.
New York.
Massachusetts
Illinois
Arkansas
West Virginia
Maryland
Ohio.
Robin Bignall
<my.sp...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:34:20 +0000, Mike Lyle wrote:
>
>> I say "pr-eye-ma facey". But "speesheez". Further on "species", numerous
>> packers of bulbs for the British market print "specie crocuses" on the
>> label - perhaps to reassure us that we're not going to open the bag and
>> find only a crocual promissory note.
>
>Ah, the promise of spring.
Cuckoo, both of you.
--
Robin Bignall
(BrE)
Herts, England
R H Draney
>
>On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:44:07 +0000 (UTC), Roland Hutchinson
><my.sp...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 16:34:20 +0000, Mike Lyle wrote:
>>
>numerous
>>> packers of bulbs for the British market print "specie crocuses" on the
>and
>>> find only a crocual promissory note.
>>
>>Ah, the promise of spring.
>
>Cuckoo, both of you.
How lhude!...r
Mark Brader
>>> I watched Horizon on BBC2 last night and everyone seemed to
>>> pronounce "species" as spee-sheez. I've always said it as spee-siz,
Weird. "Spee-seez", of course.
"Lewis":
> I say Spee-seez; I might sometimes lisp it to a slight sheez sound,
> but not normally. It is exactly like feces
Yep.
> or Aziz.
Huh? "Aziz" is "a-ZEEZ" or "uh-ZEEZ".
--
Mark Brader | "I've just checked my dictionary, though, and it does
m...@vex.net | not agree with me, which just goes to show how wrong
Toronto | dictionaries can be." --Gary Williams
Jerry Friedman
> On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 07:35:31 -0800 (PST), Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > I suppose I should point out that a lot of Americans pronounce "feces"
> > as "fee-sheez" /'fiSiz/. I'd guess that's from the influence of
> > "species".
>
> Really? I've never heard that (mid-Atlantic and Midwest), and AHD4
> gives only the "s" sound.
>
> What region are you in?
New Mexico, but I think I heard it more in Cleveland, where I grew up,
and maybe in college in New Jersey and grad school in Illinois.
--
Jerry Friedman
James Hogg
> In message <WdednRqXzqlWYt3Q...@vex.net>
>> Bob Martin:
>>>>> I watched Horizon on BBC2 last night and everyone seemed to
>>>>> pronounce "species" as spee-sheez. I've always said it as spee-siz,
>
>> Weird. "Spee-seez", of course.
>
>> "Lewis":
>>> I say Spee-seez; I might sometimes lisp it to a slight sheez sound,
>>> but not normally. It is exactly like feces
>
>> Yep.
>
>>> or Aziz.
>
>> Huh? "Aziz" is "a-ZEEZ" or "uh-ZEEZ".
>
I notice that Obama in SOTU pronounced Tunisian to rhyme with Venetian.
Is this normal in the USA?
--
James
Skitt
> Lewis wrote:
>> Mark Brader wrote:
>>> Bob Martin:
>>>>>> I watched Horizon on BBC2 last night and everyone seemed to
>>>>>> pronounce "species" as spee-sheez. I've always said it as spee-siz,
>>
>>> Weird. "Spee-seez", of course.
>>
>>> "Lewis":
>>>> I say Spee-seez; I might sometimes lisp it to a slight sheez sound,
>>>> but not normally. It is exactly like feces
>>
>>> Yep.
>>
>>>> or Aziz.
>>
>>> Huh? "Aziz" is "a-ZEEZ" or "uh-ZEEZ".
>>
>> I say "A-seez"
>
> I notice that Obama in SOTU pronounced Tunisian to rhyme with Venetian.
> Is this normal in the USA?
Yup. What else?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/audio.php?file=ggtuni03&word=Tunisian&text=\-zh%28%C4%93-%29%C9%99n\
Jerry Friedman
> James Hogg wrote:
...
> > I notice that Obama in SOTU pronounced Tunisian to rhyme with Venetian.
> > Is this normal in the USA?
>
> Yup. What else?
>
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/audio.php?file=ggtuni03&word=Tunisian&...-zh%28%C4%93-%29%C9%99n\
I'd expect it to rhyme with "lesion"--the sibilant is voiced. /
tu'niZ@n/, or for some, /tju'niZ@n/. I noticed that in the bits of
BBC news I hear, the announcers use four syllables.
--
Jerry Friedman
John Dunlop
> [James Hogg:]
>
>> I notice that Obama in SOTU pronounced Tunisian to rhyme with Venetian.
>> Is this normal in the USA?
>
> Yup. What else?
>
> http://www.merriam-webster.com/audio.php?file=ggtuni03&word=Tunisian&text=\-zh%28%C4%93-%29%C9%99n\
The LPD gives the main BrE pronunciation as /tju'nIzi@n/ ("tyoo-NIHZ-ee-an").
--
John
James Hogg
Tue-NIZZY-an for me
--
James
Mike Lyle
wrote:
Before you try another one like that, swallow.
--
Mike.
Robin Bignall
John Holmes
There is also 'facies', as in this sense:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facies
I've only ever heard that pronounced with -sheez.
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
Mike Lyle
wrote:
>Mike Lyle wrote:
[...]
>>
>> I say "pr-eye-ma facey". But "speesheez". Further on "species",
>> numerous packers of bulbs for the British market print "specie
>> crocuses" on the label - perhaps to reassure us that we're not going
>> to open the bag and find only a crocual promissory note.
>
>There is also 'facies', as in this sense:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facies
>I've only ever heard that pronounced with -sheez.
Ah, a nice new word: thanks, John.
--
Mike.
Dr Nick
> In article <ihnaib$ii$1...@news.albasani.net>, Skitt <ski...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Just in the last few days I heard people on TV pronouncing the word
>> "groceries" as grosheries. Is that unusual, or have I been missing a
>> lot of what's being said?
>
> Maybe it was Sean Connery?
Wouldn't he say "messhagesh"?
--
Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu
Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk
Evan Kirshenbaum
> MC <cope...@mapca.inter.net> writes:
>
>> Skitt <ski...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Just in the last few days I heard people on TV pronouncing the
>>> word "groceries" as grosheries. Is that unusual, or have I been
>>> missing a lot of what's being said?
>>
>> Maybe it was Sean Connery?
>
> Wouldn't he say "messhagesh"?
That's madness.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |A handgun is like a Lawyer. You
SF Bay Area (1982-) |don't want it lying around where
Chicago (1964-1982) |the children might be exposed to
|it, but when you need one, you need
evan.kir...@gmail.com |it RIGHT NOW, and nothing else will
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