rest room - a lavatory or something else?
KS
"lavatory/toilet". Can it be a room where you rest (like a rest area?) or a
cloakroom, or is its meaning restricted to the water closet facility?
Thanks!
Kamil
the Omrud
Practice differs between English speaking areas. If I saw a room
labeled "rest room" in the UK I would expect it to be a place to
rest. If I saw a room labeled "bathroom", I would expect it to
contain a bath.
--
David
=====
replace usenet with the
Tony Cooper
Any appearance or usage of "restroom" in the US has to do with a
toilet. There are no other applications for the word.
The only room designated for resting is a bedroom. A rest area is a
pull-off from an interstate or controlled access highway where the
driver can park, use the restroom, buy snacks and drinks from vending
machines, or take a nap in his car or truck.
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
Donna Richoux
> I am just wondering if a "rest room" can be anything else than a
> "lavatory/toilet".
In American English, a restroom usually has multiple sinks and toilets.
Picture:
http://www.sealyisd.com/images/Construction/girls%20restroom.jpg
If you're out in public, you can always ask for the restroom. In a home,
you would ask for a bathroom (which in AmE does not need a bathtub).
>Can it be a room where you rest (like a rest area?)
Rarely. In very fancy restrooms, I have occasionally seen a couch/sofa
for someone to rest who is not feeling well.
>or a
> cloakroom,
No. I would interpret that as a place to leave coats.
>or is its meaning restricted to the water closet facility?
Yes. I don't think I've ever seen a room dedicated to resting. A
bedroom? A waiting room?
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Lars Eighner
<bdjhm1p4buknke7cl...@4ax.com>,
the lovely and talented Tony Cooper
broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> On Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:54:01 +0100, "KS" <k...@ks.pll> wrote:
>>I am just wondering if a "rest room" can be anything else than a
>>"lavatory/toilet". Can it be a room where you rest (like a rest area?) or a
>>cloakroom, or is its meaning restricted to the water closet facility?
>>Thanks!
> Any appearance or usage of "restroom" in the US has to do with a
> toilet. There are no other applications for the word.
Right. A few such facilities, especially those for women, may
have a sofa or a few chairs, but judging from the few facilities
for men that I have seen with such appointments, these are
almost never used. Sometimes a room with an adjacent w.c.
is called a lounge. A lounge might be a place someone with a
headache could recline and close his eyes or where workers on
break might chat for a few moments, but it wouldn't be expected
that anyone would sleep there.
> The only room designated for resting is a bedroom. A rest area is a
> pull-off from an interstate or controlled access highway where the
> driver can park, use the restroom, buy snacks and drinks from vending
> machines, or take a nap in his car or truck.
--
Lars Eighner eig...@io.com http://www.larseighner.com/
I don't see posts from or threads started from googlegroups.
Writing became such a process of discovery that I couldn't wait to get to work
in the morning: I wanted to know what I was going to say. --Sharon O'Brien
Don Phillipson
The general problem is that all varieties of English
prefer euphemisms. Literally a lavatory is a place
where you wash, a toilet is a place where you arrange your
hair and finish dressing, a bathroom is where you wash all
over, and so on: and Britain has chosen bathroom and the
USA chose rest room (and both use toilet) as a general
euphemism for latrine. The main non-euphemism is WC = water
closet, which names the chief latrine appliance; this word
was also taken up in France as a quasi-euphemism (quasi-
since foreign.)
Local usage is our only reliable guide, but this does not
help book translators and similar language workers.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Mike Lyle
> KS <k...@ks.pll> wrote:
[...]
>> or a
>> cloakroom,
>
> No. I would interpret that as a place to leave coats.
It's worth noting that in Br a cloakroom is often found in private
houses: it will have a hatrack, but also a loo and a washbasin. In my
last house, we called it the "utility room", as it also held the
washing machine and a shower "cube": a lavatory opened off it; but I
don't think that's typical.
In public places, the clue to look for is whether or not there are
separate ladies' and gentlemen's cloakrooms.
--
Mike.
Jim Lawton
Although I wouldn't be surprised if it contained a lavatory, a wash basin, and a
shower, but no bath.
A room containing only a lavatory, or a lavatory and a basin, would never be
anything other than a lavatory, or "toilet" - a usage whiich my mother used to
describe as "lower middle class".
But I'm sure all these niceties have been discussed before, could one but be
bothered to Google.
--
Jim
the polymoth
the Omrud
> "KS" <k...@ks.pll> wrote in message news:dkagbf$djj$1...@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
>
> > I am just wondering if a "rest room" can be anything else than a
> > "lavatory/toilet". Can it be a room where you rest (like a rest area?) or
> > a cloakroom, or is its meaning restricted to the water closet facility?
>
> The general problem is that all varieties of English
> prefer euphemisms. Literally a lavatory is a place
> where you wash, a toilet is a place where you arrange your
> hair and finish dressing, a bathroom is where you wash all
> over, and so on: and Britain has chosen bathroom
Oh no it hasn't. A UK bathroom must contain a bath or shower.
> and the
> USA chose rest room (and both use toilet) as a general
> euphemism for latrine.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Yesterday's St. Paul Pioneer Press had an article about MinneNAPolis
PowerNap Suites in the Mall of America (which is in Bloomington,
Minnesota, not Minneapolis). The article referred to the rooms
available for napping (70 cents a minute, introductory special of 50
cents a minute) as "nap rooms."
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Chris Waigl
> In American English, a restroom usually has multiple sinks and toilets.
> Picture:
> http://www.sealyisd.com/images/Construction/girls%20restroom.jpg
>
> If you're out in public, you can always ask for the restroom. In a home,
> you would ask for a bathroom (which in AmE does not need a bathtub).
I have told this story before, but in another newsgroup which has little
readership overlap with aue. I once had a controversy with one of my
closest American friends about whether there was a mirror in my bathroom.
I knew that there was one, but she denied this fact. We were at my
then-place at the moment, so I opened the bathroom door to settle the
dispute. She then denied that this was, indeed, my bathroom, despite its
being the only room in the flat that contained a bathtub. For her, my
bathroom was the toilet cubicle next door. Logically, I asked her what
she'd call the room-with-the-tub then. This gave her a short pause, after
which she settled on "washroom".
> Rarely. In very fancy restrooms, I have occasionally seen a couch/sofa
> for someone to rest who is not feeling well.
My secondary school had a room, a tiny unused office really, that
contained a couch for students to lie down on when they didn't feel well.
We didn't have an infirmary, which might otherwise have housed the rest
area.
Chris Waigl
--
blog: http://serendipity.lascribe.net/
eggcorns: http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/
Chris Waigl
> I have told this story before, but in another newsgroup which has little
> readership overlap with aue. I once had a controversy with one of my
> closest American friends about whether there was a mirror in my bathroom.
> I knew that there was one, but she denied this fact. We were at my
> then-place at the moment, so I opened the bathroom door to settle the
^^^^^^^^ that time
Those copy-and-paste errors are annoying.
CW
bri...@wsu.edu
her exasperation with this sort of thing by inventing the word
"shitstool" for "toilet" in "The Dispossessed." All other English terms
are euphemisms. The British "water closet" is a particularly cute one
which has spread around the world. You will see toilets labeled "WC" in
all sorts of non-English-speaking places, even in facilities where the
only water is supplied by the users of the facilities.
My father used to sell plumbing, and I witnessed the embarrassment of
my Spanish teacher when she came into the hardware store and asked to
see a "lavatory" and he took her to the sinks. She wanted a toilet. In
my youth, school bathrooms were always called "lavatories."
Wonder where "loo" came from? The OED isn't much help:
[Etym. obscure.]
A privy, a lavatory. Also attrib. and Comb.
A. S. C. Ross's examination of possible sources in Blackw. Mag.
(1974) Oct. 309-16 is inconclusive: he favours derivation, in some
manner that cannot be demonstrated, from Waterloo.
Sounds like a variation on the sort of pattern you get in Cockney
rhyming slang--water closet becomes Waterloo becomes loo?
Mark Brader
> Practice differs between English speaking areas. If I saw a room
> labeled "rest room" in the UK I would expect it to be a place to
> rest.
But *have* you ever seen such a room in the UK with that label?
--
Mark Brader | "One of the lessons of history is that nothing
Toronto | is often a good thing to do and always a clever
m...@vex.net | thing to say." -- Will Durant
the Omrud
> "David":
> > Practice differs between English speaking areas. If I saw a room
> > labeled "rest room" in the UK I would expect it to be a place to
> > rest.
>
> But *have* you ever seen such a room in the UK with that label?
It's entirely likely that I have - it doesn't seem like an impossible
thing. I have seen a room in my children's primary school which was
intended for resting. If there were a resident nurse, it might have
been her domain, but there wasn't. I wouldn't be at all surprised if
it's called the rest room.
I see from googling that there is a room in at least some Turkish
Baths named the Rest Room. And here's another rest room, for coach
drivers to wait in while their passengers do their shopping:
http://www.o-mills.co.uk/restroom.html
A warm welcome awaits coach drivers when they visit Oswaldtwistle
Mills with the long awaited opening of the new coach drivers rest
room.
Facilities within the rest room consist of comfortable settees, easy
chairs, television, a selection of daily newspapers, assortment of
magazines that will be of interest to PCV drivers as well as hot
drinks vending machine dispensing complimentary beverages.
And the LSE has a rest room for porters:
http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/security/who.htm
There are photographs of each of the teams on display in a frame
outside the security, porters and maintenance rest room on the ground
floor of Old Building adjacent to the Old Theatre.
And St Andrews University has a protocol for designating a room as a
rest room if a student becomes unwell:
http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/services/safety/webpages/Codes-
Practice/unwell.html
http://tinyurl.com/79hgw
In the event of a student becoming unwell appropriate facilities must
be available for the student to rest away from other students and to
facilitate appropriate attention e.g. first aid or medical attention.
Compliance with the above requirement may be achieved by designating
an office as the rest room.
the Omrud
> Speaking of euphemisms, science fiction author Ursula Le Guin expressed
> her exasperation with this sort of thing by inventing the word
> "shitstool" for "toilet" in "The Dispossessed." All other English terms
> are euphemisms. The British "water closet" is a particularly cute one
> which has spread around the world. You will see toilets labeled "WC" in
> all sorts of non-English-speaking places, even in facilities where the
> only water is supplied by the users of the facilities.
>
> My father used to sell plumbing, and I witnessed the embarrassment of
> my Spanish teacher when she came into the hardware store and asked to
> see a "lavatory" and he took her to the sinks. She wanted a toilet. In
> my youth, school bathrooms were always called "lavatories."
There it is again. My school was entirely without bathrooms. We had
plenty of bogs, labeled "Boys" or "Girls", and communal showers in
the changing rooms for Games and Swimming, but nobody ever got to
take a bath.
William
> My school was entirely without bathrooms. We had
> plenty of bogs, labeled "Boys" or "Girls", and communal showers in
> the changing rooms for Games and Swimming, but nobody ever got to
> take a bath.
My school had several bathrooms, each with rows of baths supplying a
dribbled flow of luke-warm water. They were upstairs, on "the flat",
next to "the dorms", aka the dormitories.
The bogs, more usually called "the loos" were next to the bathrooms.
There were other loos downstairs in the yards.
--
WH
the Omrud
Ah, well, we went home in the afternoon, so we didn't have no dorms.
Donna Richoux
> Wonder where "loo" came from? The OED isn't much help:
>
> [Etym. obscure.]
That means, of course, that no one knows. You'll find plenty of
speculation, though, by going to the AUE Website and typing <loo> into
the Quick Search box.
http://www.alt-usage-english.org/
>
> A privy, a lavatory. Also attrib. and Comb.
> A. S. C. Ross's examination of possible sources in Blackw. Mag.
> (1974) Oct. 309-16 is inconclusive: he favours derivation, in some
> manner that cannot be demonstrated, from Waterloo.
>
> Sounds like a variation on the sort of pattern you get in Cockney
> rhyming slang--water closet becomes Waterloo becomes loo?
--
Best wishes -- Donna Richoux
Evan Kirshenbaum
> bri...@wsu.edu <bri...@wsu.edu> spake thusly:
>
>> My father used to sell plumbing, and I witnessed the embarrassment
>> of my Spanish teacher when she came into the hardware store and
>> asked to see a "lavatory" and he took her to the sinks. She wanted
>> a toilet. In my youth, school bathrooms were always called
>> "lavatories."
>
> There it is again. My school was entirely without bathrooms. We
> had plenty of bogs, labeled "Boys" or "Girls",
Whereas we had bathrooms but no bogs, except for the time the
sprinkler system broke and flooded one of the fields.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |There's been so much ado already
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |that any further ado would be
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |excessive.
| Lori Karkosky
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
William
Of course that's the more normal pattern. I was just attempting to
reinforce your point by stating that, when a UK school does have
bathrooms, what is found in them is - unsurprisingly - baths.
--
WH
Sara Lorimer
> Yesterday's St. Paul Pioneer Press had an article about MinneNAPolis
> PowerNap Suites in the Mall of America (which is in Bloomington,
> Minnesota, not Minneapolis). The article referred to the rooms
> available for napping (70 cents a minute, introductory special of 50
> cents a minute) as "nap rooms."
Who could fall aslepp with the meter ticking that quickly?
--
SML
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>Mark Brader <m...@vex.net> spake thusly:
>
>> "David":
>> > Practice differs between English speaking areas. If I saw a room
>> > labeled "rest room" in the UK I would expect it to be a place to
>> > rest.
>>
>> But *have* you ever seen such a room in the UK with that label?
>
>It's entirely likely that I have - it doesn't seem like an impossible
>thing. I have seen a room in my children's primary school which was
>intended for resting. If there were a resident nurse, it might have
>been her domain, but there wasn't. I wouldn't be at all surprised if
>it's called the rest room.
>
I would expect such a room to be called a "resting room".
Mark Brader
>>> If I saw a room labeled "rest room" in the UK ...
>> But *have* you ever seen such a room in the UK with that label?
> It's entirely likely that I have
> ...
> I see from googling that there is a room in at least some Turkish
> Baths named the Rest Room. And here's another rest room, for coach
> drivers ...
Thanks for the examples.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Close your tag and give it a rest, Jason"
m...@vex.net | --FoxTrot (Bill Amend)
Ian Noble
wrote:
>Mark Brader <m...@vex.net> spake thusly:
>
>> "David":
>> > Practice differs between English speaking areas. If I saw a room
>> > labeled "rest room" in the UK I would expect it to be a place to
>> > rest.
>>
>> But *have* you ever seen such a room in the UK with that label?
>
>It's entirely likely that I have - it doesn't seem like an impossible
>thing. I have seen a room in my children's primary school which was
>intended for resting. If there were a resident nurse, it might have
>been her domain, but there wasn't. I wouldn't be at all surprised if
>it's called the rest room.
>
I'd met precisely that usage, at one or more of the schools I
attended, before I ever became aware of the meaning attached to the
term in the States.
Cheers - Ian
Mike Lyle
>>> My school had several bathrooms, each with rows of baths
supplying a
>>> dribbled flow of luke-warm water. They were upstairs, on "the
flat",
>>> next to "the dorms", aka the dormitories.
>>>
>>> The bogs, more usually called "the loos" were next to the
bathrooms.
>>> There were other loos downstairs in the yards.
>>
>> Ah, well, we went home in the afternoon, so we didn't have no
dorms.
>
> Of course that's the more normal pattern. I was just attempting to
> reinforce your point by stating that, when a UK school does have
> bathrooms, what is found in them is - unsurprisingly - baths.
Did you do that thing of blocking up the overflow with softened
Lifebuoy so the bath got really full? (Actually, we were cheap: it
was Premiere lookalike, not real Lifebuoy.)
And the fart-catching in those plastic beakers?
--
Mike.
Mike Lyle
Notwithstanding all the pussy-footing around by others, I am actually
Dead Right about this one. It's derived from "lieu", with supporting
influence from "Waterloo". Compare the undergraduate "topos" for the
same thing, from the Greek for "place". Accept no substitute.
--
Mike.
R H Draney
>
>KS <k...@ks.pll> wrote:
>
>> I am just wondering if a "rest room" can be anything else than a
>> "lavatory/toilet".
>
>In American English, a restroom usually has multiple sinks and toilets.
>Picture:
> http://www.sealyisd.com/images/Construction/girls%20restroom.jpg
That's only certain for the "ladie's", as I once saw it spelled...for the "mens"
(same establishment), you often find them with one sink, one toilet, and one
urinal....
>>Can it be a room where you rest (like a rest area?)
>
>Rarely. In very fancy restrooms, I have occasionally seen a couch/sofa
>for someone to rest who is not feeling well.
Again, only for the female version...when we fellas aren't feeling well, the
toilet is the preferred destination, and we don't need anyone to hold our hair
as we throw up into it....r
R H Draney
>
>the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> There it is again. My school was entirely without bathrooms. We
>> had plenty of bogs, labeled "Boys" or "Girls",
>
>Whereas we had bathrooms but no bogs, except for the time the
>sprinkler system broke and flooded one of the fields.
ObDigression: some years ago, a clue on "Jeopardy!" in the category
"three-letter words" described "a marshy or swampy area"...the contestant
responded "what is a bog?" and was pronounced correct....
It's the practice of that show for the host to point out additional correct
responses when such exist...I've often wondered if they would have accepted
"what is a fen?"...r
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Donna Richoux filted:
>>
>>KS <k...@ks.pll> wrote:
>>
>>> I am just wondering if a "rest room" can be anything else than a
>>> "lavatory/toilet".
>>
>>In American English, a restroom usually has multiple sinks and
>>toilets.
>
> That's only certain for the "ladie's", as I once saw it
> spelled...for the "mens" (same establishment), you often find them
> with one sink, one toilet, and one urinal....
That is, unfortunately, largely a result of the Americans with
Disabilities Act (or its predecessors), I believe. Many men's rooms
were designed to have two toilets and one or two urinals. When
requirements were put in place that at least one of the toilet stalls
had to be wide enough to accommodate a wheelchair, it would be found
that there wasn't enough room to simply widen one of the stalls, so
the second toilet was removed, often to be replaced by an extra
urinal.
Unfortunately, as any operations research person will tell you, one
toilet and three urinals is far less efficient than two toilets and
two urinals, even if most men only need a urinal. An empty toilet
stall can be used when a urinal is needed; toilets, when needed, are
needed for longer and often with more urgency; a toilet can be removed
from circulation by being backed up or by running out of toilet paper;
and not infrequently someone who needs a toilet needs it for a long
time. So having a spare toilet is far more important than having a
spare urinal.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The purpose of writing is to inflate
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning,
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |and inhibit clarity. With a little
|practice, writing can be an
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |intimidating and impenetrable fog!
(650)857-7572 | Calvin
the Omrud
> William wrote:
>
> > Of course that's the more normal pattern. I was just attempting to
> > reinforce your point by stating that, when a UK school does have
> > bathrooms, what is found in them is - unsurprisingly - baths.
>
> Did you do that thing of blocking up the overflow with softened
> Lifebuoy so the bath got really full? (Actually, we were cheap: it
> was Premiere lookalike, not real Lifebuoy.)
>
> And the fart-catching in those plastic beakers?
All my life, I've been grateful to the providence which steered me
away from the places I'd gained at Warwick School and Bablake, to an
extraordinarily good local grammar school, when my family had to move
towns just before I was 11. I have not changed my mind.
William
> Did you do that thing of blocking up the overflow with softened
> Lifebuoy so the bath got really full? (Actually, we were cheap: it
> was Premiere lookalike, not real Lifebuoy.)
Lifebuoy? Lifebuoy! We had big blocks of pink carbolic, which we had to
carve lumps from with a butter-knife. That stuff just flaked up.
Useless for blocking anything.
Anyway, the tap-flow was so poor that a full bath would have taken a
fortnight. I suppose it would all be power-showers these days.
<Yorkshire Accent>
"We used to dream of a full bath with a block of fake-Lifebuoy"
</Yorkshire Accent>
> And the fart-catching in those plastic beakers?
That, I will not comment on.
--
WH
Maria Conlon
>
> Again, only for the female version...when we fellas aren't feeling
> well, the toilet is the preferred destination, and we don't need
> anyone to hold our hair as we throw up into it....r
Quite a trick, throwing up into one's hair, r.
R H Draney
Maybe you just weren't drunk enough....r
the Omrud
bri...@wsu.edu
> > Again, only for the female version...when we fellas aren't feeling
> > well, the toilet is the preferred destination, and we don't need
> > anyone to hold our hair as we throw up into it....r
> Quite a trick, throwing up into one's hair, r.
I used to have hair long enough that it definitely could have been in
the way if I was leaning over barfing. Don't remember that happening,
though. Or maybe you were just commenting on the incongruity of
throwing "up"?
Paul
Maria Conlon
bri...@wsu.edu wrote:
> Maria Conlon wrote:
>> R H Draney wrote:
>>> Again, only for the female version...when we fellas aren't feeling
>>> well, the toilet is the preferred destination, and we don't need
>>> anyone to hold our hair as we throw up into it....r
>> Quite a trick, throwing up into one's hair, r.
> I used to have hair long enough that it definitely could have been in
> the way if I was leaning over barfing. Don't remember that happening,
> though. Or maybe you were just commenting on the incongruity of
> throwing "up"?
No, "throwing up" is the term commonly used (in the US).
My comment concerned only the wording of Ron's sentence. (What the
fellas were throwing up into was, presumably, the toilet, not their
hair.)
--
Maria Conlon
Mike Barnes
>Many men's rooms
>were designed to have two toilets and one or two urinals. When
>requirements were put in place that at least one of the toilet stalls
>had to be wide enough to accommodate a wheelchair, it would be found
>that there wasn't enough room to simply widen one of the stalls, so
>the second toilet was removed, often to be replaced by an extra
>urinal.
I visited a bar in Colorado Springs where the partitions had simply been
removed from around the men's toilet(s). Apparently that satisfied the
regulations.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Mike Barnes
>"KS" <k...@ks.pll> wrote in message news:dkagbf$djj$1...@atlantis.news.tpi.pl...
>
>> I am just wondering if a "rest room" can be anything else than a
>a
>> cloakroom, or is its meaning restricted to the water closet facility?
>
>The general problem is that all varieties of English
>prefer euphemisms. Literally a lavatory is a place
>where you wash, a toilet is a place where you arrange your
>hair and finish dressing, a bathroom is where you wash all
>over, and so on: and Britain has chosen bathroom and the
>USA chose rest room (and both use toilet) as a general
>euphemism for latrine.
Britain certainly hasn't chosen "bathroom" as a euphemism for "latrine".
Sara Lorimer
> Speaking of euphemisms, science fiction author Ursula Le Guin expressed
> her exasperation with this sort of thing by inventing the word
> "shitstool" for "toilet" in "The Dispossessed." All other English terms
> are euphemisms.
Aren't all word euphemisms, if we're getting that picky? "Pipe" isn't
_actually_ a pipe...
--
SML
bri...@wsu.edu
longer hair, bending over, intending to throw up into the toilet, would
instead wind up throwing up into their hair hanging down instead.
Paul
Maria Conlon
bri...@wsu.edu wrote:
> Maria Conlon wrote:
>>
>> My comment concerned only the wording of Ron's sentence. (What the
>> fellas were throwing up into was, presumably, the toilet, not their
>> hair.)
> I think that's exactly what the original poster meant; that people
> with longer hair, bending over, intending to throw up into the
> toilet, would instead wind up throwing up into their hair hanging
> down instead.
If you read R H Draney's post again, you may change your mind about
that. (Only Ron can say for sure what he meant, though. I'm only
guessing.)
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usage.english/msg/af2a579923efc832?hl=en&
or
http://tinyurl.com/9jcfz
--
Maria Conlon
R H Draney
I think you pretty much nailed it....r