Plural of cannon...

[AL_n]

I was listening to a political program on BBC radio today, and the
presenter used the term "water cannon", as the plural of a single water
cannon.

I forget the exact sentence, but it was something like: "The protesters
held their ground even when affronted by water cannon".

I've never heard the word "cannon" used as the plural of "cannon" before.
However, it somehow sounded right, yet not right! Has anyone else heard
"cannon" used as the plural before?

Al

[AL_n]

"AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote in
news:XnsA028DCE3...@130.133.4.11:

PS... Sorry - I should have consulted the dictionary... I see now that
cannon is an accepted plural of cannon.

[Peter Young]

"Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them ..."

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Peter Brooks]

On Apr 1, 11:08 pm, Peter Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 1 Apr 2012  "AL_n" <fgdfg...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "AL_n" <fgdfg...@fghfghfg.com> wrote in

> >news:XnsA028DCE3...@130.133.4.11:
> >> I was listening to a political program on BBC radio today, and the
> >> presenter used the term "water cannon", as the plural of a single
> >> water cannon.
>
> >> I forget the exact sentence, but it was something like: "The
> >> protesters held their ground even when affronted by water cannon".
>
> >> I've never heard the word "cannon" used as the plural of "cannon"
> >> before. However, it somehow sounded right, yet not right! Has anyone
> >> else heard "cannon" used as the plural before?
>
> >> Al
>
> > PS... Sorry - I should have consulted the dictionary... I see now that
> > cannon is an accepted plural of cannon.
>
> "Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them ..."
>

'Canons' is, on the other hand, the plural of 'Canon' - it might be
uncomfortable to have Canons to the right and left, but it's generally
less deadly.

[Martin Ambuhl]

Yes. If you would read or have conversations with people for whom cannon
are a common topic, you would hear it often.

[John Dean]

"Peter Young" <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fbdbc5795...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk...

> On 1 Apr 2012 "AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:
>
>> "AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote in
>> news:XnsA028DCE3...@130.133.4.11:
>
>>> I was listening to a political program on BBC radio today, and the
>>> presenter used the term "water cannon", as the plural of a single
>>> water cannon.
>>>
>>> I forget the exact sentence, but it was something like: "The
>>> protesters held their ground even when affronted by water cannon".
>>>
>>> I've never heard the word "cannon" used as the plural of "cannon"
>>> before. However, it somehow sounded right, yet not right! Has anyone
>>> else heard "cannon" used as the plural before?
>>>
>>> Al
>>>
>
>> PS... Sorry - I should have consulted the dictionary... I see now that
>> cannon is an accepted plural of cannon.
>
> "Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them ..."

... here I am!
Stuck in the middle with you..."

--
John Dean

[John Dean]

"Martin Ambuhl" <mam...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:b72dnWbYcJj1UOXS...@earthlink.com...

Though if you heard the Vicar say "I have two Canon who help me" you'd know
he was wrong.

--
John Dean

[Mike L]

Not just acceptable, but normal and preferable. Journalists and
broadcasters are using the "cannons" plural a lot these days, as
there's a strong tendency to "regularize" the language in several
ways; but it isn't standard yet.

--
Mike.

[Stan Brown]

"There were fifty mounted cannon in the battery,
Thundering, thundering, all along the way."

AHD4 says the plural is "cannon or cannons". I don't think there's a
real diference in meaning, as there is with fish or fishes.

--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com

[Mark Brader]

Al:

>>> I've never heard the word "cannon" used as the plural of "cannon"
>>> before. However, it somehow sounded right, yet not right! Has anyone
>>> else heard "cannon" used as the plural before?

It's old-fashioned, going back to the era when cannons were ordinary
military weapons.

Mike L.:
> Not just acceptable, but normal and preferable...

If you want to sound old-fashioned.
--
Mark Brader "...but the past thousand years
Toronto, m...@vex.net have been atypical."

[Jeffrey Turner]

It's almost canonical.

[Steve Hayes]

On 1 Apr 2012 20:41:47 GMT, "AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:

>I've never heard the word "cannon" used as the plural of "cannon" before.
>However, it somehow sounded right, yet not right! Has anyone else heard
>"cannon" used as the plural before?

Yes, frequently.

I seem to recall "cannon to the left of them, and cannon to the right".


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[James Hogg]

Canon with one "n" refers to a round number.

--
James

[Nasti J]

On Apr 1, 10:36 pm, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:

> Canon with one "n" refers to a round number.

Oh, that's just rude! They're not ALL fat!

[LFS]

<sigh> I see that this is not the only musical allusion spawned in this
thread especially to haunt me for the day.

But I am rather more interested in the idea of protestors being
"affronted". "Well, really! Water cannon! Whatever next?" I assume the
word actually used was "confronted".

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

[Peter Brooks]

On Apr 2, 9:33 am, LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> But I am rather more interested in the idea of protestors being
> "affronted". "Well, really! Water cannon! Whatever next?" I assume the
> word actually used was "confronted".
>

I rather liked the mistake - 'You naughty policemen, you' - you can
imagine Bluebottle being affronted by a water cannon.

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On Sun, 1 Apr 2012 23:05:31 +0100, "John Dean" <john...@FRAGmsn.com>
wrote:

>"I have two Canon who help me"

Boom! Boom!

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[jgharston]

Peter Brooks wrote:
> I rather liked the mistake - 'You naughty policemen, you' - you can
> imagine Bluebottle being affronted by a water cannon.

He's been affronted with the water!

JGH

[AL_n]

LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote in news:9tt335Fnm8U2
@mid.individual.net:

> But I am rather more interested in the idea of protestors being
> "affronted". "Well, really! Water cannon! Whatever next?" I assume the
> word actually used was "confronted"

What is wrong with 'affronted'? Surely people should be allowed to protest
in peace without being bullied, threatened or affronted; don't you agree?

Al

[jgharston]

AL_n wrote:
> I've never heard the word "cannon" used as the plural of "cannon" before.
> However, it somehow sounded right, yet not right! Has anyone else heard
> "cannon" used as the plural before?

It's the same as fish and fishes. A plurality of cannon is a mass
quantity (cannon fired at us), a plurality of cannons is a number
of individual items (there are two cannons at the entrance).

JGH

[Pablo]

AL_n escribió:

I would guess that it comes from "cannon fire".

--
Pablo

[John Dean]

"AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA02975A6...@130.133.4.11...

They may have been affronted, I was taken aback.

--
John Dean

[J. J. Lodder]

It will probably end up as a tribal marker,
as has happened in Dutch.
There are two plurals of 'kanon' in Dutch, 'kanonnen' and 'kanons'.
Civilians and other know-nothings exclusively use 'kanonnen',
military men in the know always use the 'kanons' plural,
which demonstrates their superior knowledge of how things really are,

Jan

PS And more ugliness:
Google already finds about a thousand hits for "cannons fodder",
with or without the space.

[John Varela]

On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 01:50:24 UTC, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

> Al:
> >>> I've never heard the word "cannon" used as the plural of "cannon"
> >>> before. However, it somehow sounded right, yet not right! Has anyone
> >>> else heard "cannon" used as the plural before?
>
> It's old-fashioned, going back to the era when cannons were ordinary
> military weapons.

And now they are what? Extraordinary? There seems to be a tendency
to say "gun" instead of "cannon" these days, but there are still
plenty of cannons around, notably on tanks.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 05:36:20 UTC, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
wrote:

Fuguetaboudit.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

Or "fodder".

--
John Varela

[Mark Brader]

Mark Brader:
>> ...the era when cannons were ordinary military weapons.

John Varela:

> And now they are what? Extraordinary?

Well, the way I use the term, they're obsolete. I would say it's only
a cannon if it's meant to fire cannonballs; its equivalent in modern
artillery fires shells that explode on arrival at the target.

I concede that people who actually work with firearms may have
different terminology. In particular, I know that "cannon" is
sometimes used for what I would call large-caliber machine guns
mounted on airplanes.
--
Mark Brader | "One of the lessons of history is that nothing
Toronto | is often a good thing to do and always a clever
m...@vex.net | thing to say." -- Will Durant

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 08:33:57 +0100, LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk>
wrote:

>But I am rather more interested in the idea of protestors being
>"affronted". "Well, really! Water cannon! Whatever next?" I assume the
>word actually used was "confronted".

I would be affronted if someone sprayed me with water cannon, or even with
only one water cannon.

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 07:36:20 +0200, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> wrote:

>Canon with one "n" refers to a round number.

Tallis another one.

[Skitt]

Mark Brader wrote:
> Mark Brader:

>>> ...the era when cannons were ordinary military weapons.
>
> John Varela:
>> And now they are what? Extraordinary?
>
> Well, the way I use the term, they're obsolete. I would say it's only
> a cannon if it's meant to fire cannonballs; its equivalent in modern
> artillery fires shells that explode on arrival at the target.
>
> I concede that people who actually work with firearms may have
> different terminology. In particular, I know that "cannon" is
> sometimes used for what I would call large-caliber machine guns
> mounted on airplanes.

I used to repair and maintain the electronics on Skysweepers, and
Skysweepers were guns.

http://home.comcast.net/~skitt99/75mmgun.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skysweeper
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt

[Lanarcam]

What is the difference between repairing and maintaining?

[Skitt]

Ever hear of preventive maintenance? You can replace parts before they
actually fail and need repair.

[Lanarcam]

Ok, but outside of preventive maintenance, I think there is no
difference but I might be wrong.

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <jlbdt0$a78$1...@dont-email.me>,

James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> wrote:

>Canon with one "n" refers to a round number.

I dunno, there's an awful lot of f/2.8 and f/1.4 in their product
line, particularly the L series.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[J. J. Lodder]

Mark Brader <m...@vex.net> wrote:

> Mark Brader:
> >> ...the era when cannons were ordinary military weapons.
>
> John Varela:
> > And now they are what? Extraordinary?
>
> Well, the way I use the term, they're obsolete. I would say it's only
> a cannon if it's meant to fire cannonballs; its equivalent in modern
> artillery fires shells that explode on arrival at the target.
>
> I concede that people who actually work with firearms may have
> different terminology. In particular, I know that "cannon" is
> sometimes used for what I would call large-caliber machine guns
> mounted on airplanes.

For classic fighter planes (Spitfires for example)
the terminology is just the same:
(whatever the rate of fire)
if it fires something that explodes on arrival it's a cannon,
if it fires something that doesn't it's a machine gun.

The best Spitfires had both,

Jan

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On 1 Apr 2012 20:41:47 GMT, "AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:

>I was listening to a political program on BBC radio today, and the
>presenter used the term "water cannon", as the plural of a single water
>cannon.
>
>I forget the exact sentence, but it was something like: "The protesters
>held their ground even when affronted by water cannon".
>
>I've never heard the word "cannon" used as the plural of "cannon" before.
>However, it somehow sounded right, yet not right! Has anyone else heard
>"cannon" used as the plural before?
>

Yes. I've known it as the collective and plural form from soon after
learning the word.

The earliest example in the OED is:

1598 Shakespeare Henry IV, Pt. 1 ii. iv. 53 Thou hast talkt..Of
basilisks, of canon, culuerin.

basilisk, n.
1. A fabulous reptile, also called a cockatrice, alleged to be
hatched by a serpent from a cock's egg;
....
3. transf. A large cannon, generally made of brass, and throwing a
shot of about 200 pounds weight. (Other pieces of ordnance of the
time were named from venomous reptiles; e.g. culverin, serpentine,
slang, etc. Cf. Shakespeare Henry V v. ii. 17.)

[Mark Brader]

James Hogg:

>> Canon with one "n" refers to a round number.

Garrett Wollman:

> I dunno, there's an awful lot of f/2.8 and f/1.4 in their product
> line, particularly the L series.

Are you actually suggesting that powers of 1/sqrt(2) are *not* round
numbers??!?!?!?

:-)
--
Mark Brader And as in nerdish thought he stood,
Toronto the Jargontalk, with awk and grep,
m...@vex.net Came geeking through the Cobol wood,
and edlin as it schlepped.
--Larry Colen (after Lewis Carroll)

[Mike L]

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 20:28:35 +0200, Steve Hayes
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 07:36:20 +0200, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Canon with one "n" refers to a round number.
>
>Tallis another one.

There must be a catch to this.

--
Mike.

[Robin Bignall]

On Sun, 1 Apr 2012 23:04:10 +0100, "John Dean" <john...@FRAGmsn.com>
wrote:

>

>"Peter Young" <pny...@ormail.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:fbdbc5795...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk...

>> On 1 Apr 2012 "AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote in
>>> news:XnsA028DCE3...@130.133.4.11:
>>

>>>> I was listening to a political program on BBC radio today, and the
>>>> presenter used the term "water cannon", as the plural of a single
>>>> water cannon.
>>>>
>>>> I forget the exact sentence, but it was something like: "The
>>>> protesters held their ground even when affronted by water cannon".
>>>>
>>>> I've never heard the word "cannon" used as the plural of "cannon"
>>>> before. However, it somehow sounded right, yet not right! Has anyone
>>>> else heard "cannon" used as the plural before?
>>>>

>>>> Al
>>>>
>>
>>> PS... Sorry - I should have consulted the dictionary... I see now that
>>> cannon is an accepted plural of cannon.
>>

>> "Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them ..."
>
>... here I am!
>Stuck in the middle with you..."

But not a drop to drink.
--
Robin Bignall
(BrE)
Herts, England

[R H Draney]

John Dean filted:

Turned around just in time, did you?...r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Robin Bignall]

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 11:13:48 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>On Sun, 1 Apr 2012 23:05:31 +0100, "John Dean" <john...@FRAGmsn.com>
>wrote:
>
>>"I have two Canon who help me"
>
>Boom! Boom!

Click click.

[Mike L]

On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 14:49:17 +0100, "John Dean" <john...@FRAGmsn.com>
wrote:

>

I'm sure you wouldn't have backed down, though.

It's not generally known, I think, that the UK has actually got some
water-cannon. Two of them, I understand. Garaged in Northern Ireland.
They don't go round tight corners very well. And if you use them, they
run out of water. Just the job, only a Daily Mail reader could
imagine, to stop people unexpectedly looting running shoes in the
suburbs of London.

--
Mike.

[Mike L]

On Sun, 01 Apr 2012 20:50:24 -0500, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>Al:

>>>> I've never heard the word "cannon" used as the plural of "cannon"
>>>> before. However, it somehow sounded right, yet not right! Has anyone
>>>> else heard "cannon" used as the plural before?
>

>It's old-fashioned, going back to the era when cannons were ordinary
>military weapons.
>
>Mike L.:
>> Not just acceptable, but normal and preferable...
>
>If you want to sound old-fashioned.

No, if you want to sound ill-informed. As, of course, many people do,
on culturally-relativistic or something principles.

--
Mike.

[Mark Brader]

John Dean:

> They may have been affronted, I was taken aback.

I take it that once you were on top of what had happened, then,
you weren't onside with it.
--
Mark Brader "If you design for compatibility with a
Toronto donkey cart, what you get is a donkey cart."
m...@vex.net -- ?, quoted by Henry Spencer

[Katy Jennison]

Only to part of it.

--
Katy Jennison

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

Indeed. I've just looked a recent Daily Mail article saying "Every
police force could have access to a water cannon within months as police
chiefs vow to prevent a repeat of last summer's riots."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2114601/Water-cannons-streets-months-Tear-gas-Tasers-police-wish-list-combat-riots.html#ixzz1quwDuZQx

I like the cartoon on that page. A middle-aged couple are carrying empty
buckets to collect water because of the water shortage in parts of
England at the moment (leading to a "hosepipe ban"). One says to the
other 'Now all we've got to do is to provoke the police into firing
their water cannon at us'.

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

Repairing is part of maintenance.

When I used to do that sort of maintenance for a living it was called
"preventative".

[Lanarcam]

What is the other part?

>
> When I used to do that sort of maintenance for a living it was called
> "preventative".

I have always found that kind of "strange", I don't know why.
>

[John Dean]

"Mark Brader" <m...@vex.net> wrote in message
news:jaKdnfa1SI25lufS...@vex.net...

> John Dean:
>> They may have been affronted, I was taken aback.
>
> I take it that once you were on top of what had happened, then,
> you weren't onside with it.

Offhand, I'd say it was beneath me.

--
John Dean

[John Dean]

"Mike L" <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:qmvjn7pk4dsgps9j9...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 14:49:17 +0100, "John Dean" <john...@FRAGmsn.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote in message
>>news:XnsA02975A6...@130.133.4.11...
>>> LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote in news:9tt335Fnm8U2
>>> @mid.individual.net:
>>>
>>>> But I am rather more interested in the idea of protestors being
>>>> "affronted". "Well, really! Water cannon! Whatever next?" I assume the
>>>> word actually used was "confronted"
>>>
>>> What is wrong with 'affronted'? Surely people should be allowed to
>>> protest
>>> in peace without being bullied, threatened or affronted; don't you
>>> agree?
>>>
>>
>>They may have been affronted, I was taken aback.
>
> I'm sure you wouldn't have backed down, though.
>
> It's not generally known, I think, that the UK has actually got some
> water-cannon. Two of them, I understand.

Six.

http://www.nipolicingboard.org.uk/index/our-work/content-humanrights/content-lesslethal/content-water_cannon.htm

http://tinyurl.com/cz65qng

--
John Dean

[Mark Brader]

"Lanarcam":

>>> Ok, but outside of preventive maintenance, I think there is no
>>> difference but I might be wrong.

Peter Duncanson:

>> When I used to do that sort of maintenance for a living it was called
>> "preventative".

"Lanarcam":

> I have always found that kind of "strange", I don't know why.

It's one of a bunch of cases where English has parallel word forms,
one of which includes -at- after a Latin-derived root and the other
does not. Sometimes, as here, they are fully interchangeable; other
times one form has a more restricted sense. I think it arises because
of the various ways we make nouns out of verbs and verbs out of nouns.

In the areas where the senses overlap, most people have a marked
preference for one or the other version of a particular word, but they
don't all agree on which version to prefer, so both versions persist.
I once read a style guide where one of the entries read in full:

"'Preventative' is preferred to 'preventive'. 'Interpretive'
is preferred to 'interpretative'. And don't ask silly questions."

or perhaps the reverse, but I think it was that way. A Google Books
search turns up an Associated Press reference book, but will not
show me the actual page; so perhaps it was the AP stylebook I was
looking at.

Other examples of such pairs include the following verbs:

administer / administrate
comment / commentate
delimit / delimitate
emend / emendate
encapsule / encapsulate
oblige / obligate
orient / orientate
pulse / pulsate
sublime / sublimate

--
Mark Brader | "Simple things should be simple." -- Alan Kay, on UIs
m...@vex.net | "Too many ... try to make complex things simple ...
Toronto | and succeed ... only in making simple things complex."
| -- Jeff Prothero

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

Preventive maintenance activities such as inspection and testing.

This gives a reasonable description:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventive_maintenance#Subgroups

To make it simple:

Preventive maintenance is conducted to keep equipment working
and/or extend the life of the equipment.

Corrective maintenance, sometimes called "repair," is conducted
to get equipment working again.

The primary goal of maintenance is to avoid or mitigate the
consequences of failure of equipment. This may be by preventing the
failure before it actually occurs which Planned Maintenance and
Condition Based Maintenance help to achieve. It is designed to
preserve and restore equipment reliability by replacing worn
components before they actually fail. Preventive maintenance
activities include partial or complete overhauls at specified
periods, oil changes, lubrication and so on. In addition, workers
can record equipment deterioration so they know to replace or repair
worn parts before they cause system failure. The ideal preventive
maintenance program would prevent all equipment failure before it
occurs.

>>
>> When I used to do that sort of maintenance for a living it was called
>> "preventative".
>
>I have always found that kind of "strange", I don't know why.
>>

[R H Draney]

Mark Brader filted:

>
>I once read a style guide where one of the entries read in full:
>
> "'Preventative' is preferred to 'preventive'. 'Interpretive'
> is preferred to 'interpretative'. And don't ask silly questions."

Just what was that style guide trying to preventate?...r

[Jerry Friedman]

On Apr 2, 2:32 pm, Katy Jennison <k...@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
> On 02/04/2012 20:32, Mike L wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 20:28:35 +0200, Steve Hayes

> > <hayes...@telkomsa.net>  wrote:

>
> >> On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 07:36:20 +0200, James Hogg<Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com>  wrote:
>
> >>> Canon with one "n" refers to a round number.
>
> >> Tallis another one.
>
> > There must be a catch to this.
>
> Only to part of it.

You're all just imitating each other.

--
Jerry Friedman

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 22:39:06 +0100, "John Dean" <john...@FRAGmsn.com>

wrote:

>
>"Mike L" <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:qmvjn7pk4dsgps9j9...@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 14:49:17 +0100, "John Dean" <john...@FRAGmsn.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote in message
>>>news:XnsA02975A6...@130.133.4.11...
>>>> LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote in news:9tt335Fnm8U2
>>>> @mid.individual.net:
>>>>
>>>>> But I am rather more interested in the idea of protestors being
>>>>> "affronted". "Well, really! Water cannon! Whatever next?" I assume the
>>>>> word actually used was "confronted"
>>>>
>>>> What is wrong with 'affronted'? Surely people should be allowed to
>>>> protest
>>>> in peace without being bullied, threatened or affronted; don't you
>>>> agree?
>>>>
>>>
>>>They may have been affronted, I was taken aback.
>>
>> I'm sure you wouldn't have backed down, though.
>>
>> It's not generally known, I think, that the UK has actually got some
>> water-cannon. Two of them, I understand.
>
>Six.
>
>http://www.nipolicingboard.org.uk/index/our-work/content-humanrights/content-lesslethal/content-water_cannon.htm
>
>http://tinyurl.com/cz65qng

which reports:

74. In relation to the use of water cannon, we have studied the
videos and logs carefully. We have also examined our own notes made
on the day. Having done so, we are satisfied that the deployment and
use of water cannon was at all times within the PSNI Water Cannon
Policy and compliant with the Human Rights Act 1998.

One might say that the water cannon were used canonically.

[Skitt]

Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
> Lanarcam wrote:
>> Skitt a écrit :

>>> Lanarcam wrote:

>>>> What is the difference between repairing and maintaining?
>>>
>>> Ever hear of preventive maintenance? You can replace parts before they
>>> actually fail and need repair.
>>>
>> Ok, but outside of preventive maintenance, I think there is no
>> difference but I might be wrong.
>
> Repairing is part of maintenance.

Yes, it can be when something is faulty.

> When I used to do that sort of maintenance for a living it was called
> "preventative".
>

Yeah. people still say that. I have no idea why the extra syllable is
popular. We don't preventate anything.

[Skitt]

Things like greasing the hinges, and such. You know -- maintenance. ;)

>> When I used to do that sort of maintenance for a living it was called
>> "preventative".
>
> I have always found that kind of "strange", I don't know why.
>>

Me too.

[Peter Moylan]

Peter Brooks wrote:

> On Apr 1, 11:08 pm, Peter Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

>> "Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them ..."
>>

> 'Canons' is, on the other hand, the plural of 'Canon' - it might be
> uncomfortable to have Canons to the right and left, but it's generally
> less deadly.

A one-n canon preaches loud
A two-n cannon disperses the crowd
But I will bet my silk pyjama
(Remainder deleted because I couldn't find a rhyme.)

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

[Peter Moylan]

When someone at my university wanted to introduce a subject called
"Preventative Maintenance", I suggested that it be called
"Preventitative Maintenance". The joke went over like a lead balloon.

[Peter Moylan]

J. J. Lodder wrote:

> PS And more ugliness:
> Google already finds about a thousand hits for "cannons fodder",
> with or without the space.

That sentence might help me understand something that has puzzled me for
years.

When I was an adolescent I read a story, set in World War II, in which a
German spy was unmasked because he used "already" in a sentence. I
couldn't understand the point. I too use the word "already", and I don't
speak German.

But perhaps the point was that the word was used in a place where a
native speaker of English wouldn't use it. It's a pity I can't remember
the original sentence.

[R H Draney]

Peter Moylan filted:

>
>When someone at my university wanted to introduce a subject called
>"Preventative Maintenance", I suggested that it be called
>"Preventitative Maintenance". The joke went over like a lead balloon.

An ounce of preventation is worth a pound of curate....r

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 13:10:09 -0500, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>Mark Brader:
>>> ...the era when cannons were ordinary military weapons.
>
>John Varela:
>> And now they are what? Extraordinary?
>
>Well, the way I use the term, they're obsolete. I would say it's only
>a cannon if it's meant to fire cannonballs; its equivalent in modern
>artillery fires shells that explode on arrival at the target.
>
>I concede that people who actually work with firearms may have
>different terminology. In particular, I know that "cannon" is
>sometimes used for what I would call large-caliber machine guns
>mounted on airplanes.

But it was the machine-gun bullets that were solid, and the cannon that fired
exploding shells.

I believe it was found that while machineguns were effective against the wood
and fabric aircraft of WWI, cannon were more effective against the
stressed-skin aircraft of WWII (and after).


--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 20:41:08 +0200, Lanarcam <lana...@yahoo.fr> wrote:

>What is the difference between repairing and maintaining?

You repair something when it is broken.

You maintain it so that it doesn't break.

[Steve Hayes]

On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:28:07 +1000, Peter Moylan
<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

>When I was an adolescent I read a story, set in World War II, in which a
>German spy was unmasked because he used "already" in a sentence. I
>couldn't understand the point. I too use the word "already", and I don't
>speak German.
>
>But perhaps the point was that the word was used in a place where a
>native speaker of English wouldn't use it. It's a pity I can't remember
>the original sentence.

Germans often use "already" where a native speaker would use "since", but I
too can't think of an example right now.

[James Hogg]

Peter Moylan wrote:
> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
>> PS And more ugliness:
>> Google already finds about a thousand hits for "cannons fodder",
>> with or without the space.
>
> That sentence might help me understand something that has puzzled me for
> years.
>
> When I was an adolescent I read a story, set in World War II, in which a
> German spy was unmasked because he used "already" in a sentence. I
> couldn't understand the point. I too use the word "already", and I don't
> speak German.
>
> But perhaps the point was that the word was used in a place where a
> native speaker of English wouldn't use it. It's a pity I can't remember
> the original sentence.

The Germans certainly overuse "already" by British English standards.
They can even answer a simple question with "Ja, schon".

I find myself constantly deleting "already" in English texts written by
Swedes, or rewording. In a sentence like "It has to be finished
tomorrow" Scandinavians almost always feel a need to say "already tomorrow".

--
James

[Steve Hayes]

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 16:42:46 -0500, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>"Lanarcam":
>>>> Ok, but outside of preventive maintenance, I think there is no
>>>> difference but I might be wrong.
>
>Peter Duncanson:
>>> When I used to do that sort of maintenance for a living it was called
>>> "preventative".
>
>"Lanarcam":
>> I have always found that kind of "strange", I don't know why.
>
>It's one of a bunch of cases where English has parallel word forms,
>one of which includes -at- after a Latin-derived root and the other
>does not. Sometimes, as here, they are fully interchangeable; other
>times one form has a more restricted sense. I think it arises because
>of the various ways we make nouns out of verbs and verbs out of nouns.

Fowler:

The short form is better; see LONG VARIANTS.

[James Hogg]

Steve Hayes wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:28:07 +1000, Peter Moylan
> <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> When I was an adolescent I read a story, set in World War II, in which a
>> German spy was unmasked because he used "already" in a sentence. I
>> couldn't understand the point. I too use the word "already", and I don't
>> speak German.
>>
>> But perhaps the point was that the word was used in a place where a
>> native speaker of English wouldn't use it. It's a pity I can't remember
>> the original sentence.
>
> Germans often use "already" where a native speaker would use "since", but I
> too can't think of an example right now.

Some examples from my German-English dictionary suggesting how to render
German "schon" in English without using "already":

das war schon vor zwanzig Jahren -- that was twenty whole years ago.
wie lange sind Sie schon hier? -- how long have you been here?
das kenne ich schon -- I know that, I've seen that before.
ich habe schon bessere Weine getrunken -- I've tasted better wines in my
time
hast du schon gehört? -- have you heard?
sind Sie schon (einmal) in Spanien gewesen? -- have you ever been to Spain?

--
James

[James Hogg]

Peter Moylan wrote:
> Peter Brooks wrote:
>> On Apr 1, 11:08 pm, Peter Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> "Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them ..."
>>>
>> 'Canons' is, on the other hand, the plural of 'Canon' - it might be
>> uncomfortable to have Canons to the right and left, but it's generally
>> less deadly.
>
> A one-n canon preaches loud
> A two-n cannon disperses the crowd
> But I will bet my silk pyjama
> (Remainder deleted because I couldn't find a rhyme.)

There are no good rhymes for "canon". What would Byron have done?

A one-n canon preaches loud

A two-n cannon clears the crowd
And I'll keep searching like Del Shannon
To see if there's a three-n cannnon.

--
James

[Peter Brooks]

There isn't a one-n canon, only two and three en ones.

[Peter Brooks]

On Apr 3, 8:26 am, Steve Hayes <hayes...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:28:07 +1000, Peter Moylan
>

> <inva...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> >When I was an adolescent I read a story, set in World War II, in which a
> >German spy was unmasked because he used "already" in a sentence. I
> >couldn't understand the point. I too use the word "already", and I don't
> >speak German.
>
> >But perhaps the point was that the word was used in a place where a
> >native speaker of English wouldn't use it. It's a pity I can't remember
> >the original sentence.
>
> Germans often use "already" where a native speaker would use "since", but I
> too can't think of an example right now.
>

They tend to say things like 'it was already X, since five years ago'
that sound strange to a speaker of English.

[James Hogg]

Hats off to you for that astute observation.

--
James

[Peter Young]

On 3 Apr 2012 Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> Peter Brooks wrote:
>> On Apr 1, 11:08 pm, Peter Young <pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:

>>> "Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them ..."
>>>
>> 'Canons' is, on the other hand, the plural of 'Canon' - it might be
>> uncomfortable to have Canons to the right and left, but it's generally
>> less deadly.

> A one-n canon preaches loud
> A two-n cannon disperses the crowd
> But I will bet my silk pyjama
> (Remainder deleted because I couldn't find a rhyme.)

A cannon was never fired by a llama.

Cue poem about lamas and llamas.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[LFS]

On 03/04/2012 08:13, James Hogg wrote:
> Peter Brooks wrote:
>> On Apr 3, 8:48 am, James Hogg<Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> Peter Brooks wrote:
>>>>> On Apr 1, 11:08 pm, Peter Young<pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> "Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them ..."
>>>>> 'Canons' is, on the other hand, the plural of 'Canon' - it might be
>>>>> uncomfortable to have Canons to the right and left, but it's generally
>>>>> less deadly.
>>>> A one-n canon preaches loud
>>>> A two-n cannon disperses the crowd
>>>> But I will bet my silk pyjama
>>>> (Remainder deleted because I couldn't find a rhyme.)
>>> There are no good rhymes for "canon". What would Byron have done?
>>>
>>> A one-n canon preaches loud
>>> A two-n cannon clears the crowd
>>> And I'll keep searching like Del Shannon
>>> To see if there's a three-n cannnon.
>>>
>> There isn't a one-n canon, only two and three en ones.
>
> Hats off to you for that astute observation.
>

<applause> That's my STS sorted for the day...

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

[Peter Brooks]

Thank you - I was being pleased with my arithmetical, rather than my
observational, skills.

If I had been observant, I'd have noticed that there are no-en
cannons; howitzers, for example. Also, you could have pointed out that
I was wrong, there is a on-en one, a 'cañon' - enye is not en.

[Lanarcam]

On Apr 3, 2:28 am, Peter Moylan <inva...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid>
wrote:

> J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > PS And more ugliness:
> > Google already finds about a thousand hits for "cannons fodder",
> > with or without the space.
>
> That sentence might help me understand something that has puzzled me for
> years.
>
> When I was an adolescent I read a story, set in World War II, in which a
> German spy was unmasked because he used "already" in a sentence. I
> couldn't understand the point. I too use the word "already", and I don't
> speak German.
>
> But perhaps the point was that the word was used in a place where a
> native speaker of English wouldn't use it. It's a pity I can't remember
> the original sentence.
>

Once, I worked with German colleagues and we were talking in English.
One of them said very often "already" and also "again and again". That
has
always struck me as being Germanisms. I know that Germans often say
"schon" which means already, I don't know if that's the reason.

[Adam Funk]

On 2012-04-02, J. J. Lodder wrote:

> Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>> Not just acceptable, but normal and preferable. Journalists and
>> broadcasters are using the "cannons" plural a lot these days, as
>> there's a strong tendency to "regularize" the language in several
>> ways; but it isn't standard yet.
>
> It will probably end up as a tribal marker,
> as has happened in Dutch.
> There are two plurals of 'kanon' in Dutch, 'kanonnen' and 'kanons'.
> Civilians and other know-nothings exclusively use 'kanonnen',
> military men in the know always use the 'kanons' plural,
> which demonstrates their superior knowledge of how things really are,

Nautical & fishing terminology is full of those [1] markers: whether
you refer to a boat or ship as "she" or "it"; whether you know the
difference between "boats" & "ships" (at sea, I mean); you row
rowboats but you paddle canoes & kayaks; &c.


[1] What's the plural of "shibboleth"?


--
When you look at a photograph of the earth you don't see any
borders. That realization is where our hope as a planet lies.
[Graham Nash]

[Peter Brooks]

On Apr 3, 3:08 pm, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>
>
> [1] What's the plural of "shibboleth"?
>

RP.

[Jeffrey Turner]

On 4/3/2012 3:17 AM, Peter Young wrote:
> On 3 Apr 2012 Peter Moylan<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Peter Brooks wrote:
>>> On Apr 1, 11:08 pm, Peter Young<pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>> "Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them ..."
>>>>
>>> 'Canons' is, on the other hand, the plural of 'Canon' - it might be
>>> uncomfortable to have Canons to the right and left, but it's generally
>>> less deadly.
>
>> A one-n canon preaches loud
>> A two-n cannon disperses the crowd
>> But I will bet my silk pyjama
>> (Remainder deleted because I couldn't find a rhyme.)
>
> A cannon was never fired by a llama.
>
> Cue poem about lamas and llamas.

Hello Dalai. Well, hello Dalai...

--Jeff

[Jeffrey Turner]

On 4/2/2012 6:28 AM, jgharston wrote:
> Peter Brooks wrote:
>> I rather liked the mistake - 'You naughty policemen, you' - you can
>> imagine Bluebottle being affronted by a water cannon.
>
> He's been affronted with the water!

Any real estate agent will tell you that makes him more valuable.

--Jeff

[LFS]

<chortle>

[James Hogg]

It's so nice to free Tibet where you belong.

--
James

[R H Draney]

Peter Young filted:

>
>On 3 Apr 2012 Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>
>> A one-n canon preaches loud
>> A two-n cannon disperses the crowd
>> But I will bet my silk pyjama
>> (Remainder deleted because I couldn't find a rhyme.)
>
>A cannon was never fired by a llama.
>
>Cue poem about lamas and llamas.

Once upon a noontime lunchin'
With my bestest bud, the Panchen....

[Joe Fineman]

James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> writes:

> Some examples from my German-English dictionary suggesting how to
> render German "schon" in English without using "already":
>
> das war schon vor zwanzig Jahren -- that was twenty whole years ago.
> wie lange sind Sie schon hier? -- how long have you been here?
> das kenne ich schon -- I know that, I've seen that before.
> ich habe schon bessere Weine getrunken -- I've tasted better wines
> in my time
> hast du schon gehört? -- have you heard?
> sind Sie schon (einmal) in Spanien gewesen? -- have you ever been to
> Spain?

Cassell's also records the colloquial use of "schon" to register
impatience: "Mach schon!" = "Get a move on!". That has come into
(American) English as a Yiddishism ("Stop beating around the bush
already!"), which in the context of W.W. II would be reassuring. %^)
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: Call no day happy until it is done. Call no man happy until :||
||: he is dead. :||

[Jerry Friedman]

Talking over quaint and curious quipus of the Inca lore,
While we jawed, serenely eating, suddenly there came a bleating,
As of some Katahdin greeting, bleating at my kitchen door.
"'Tis on-topic, for we're eating--bleating at my kitchen door.
Only this, and nothing more."

--
Jerry Friedman

[Jerry Friedman]

Good one!

--
Jerry Friedman

[Katy Jennison]

<applause!>


--
Katy Jennison

[John Varela]

On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 20:45:46 UTC, Lanarcam <lana...@yahoo.fr>
wrote:

> Le 02/04/2012 22:44, Peter Duncanson (BrE) a écrit :
> > Repairing is part of maintenance.
>
> What is the other part?

Changing the oil and filter and checking the tire pressures.

--
John Varela

[Peter Moylan]

Hello, Dali. This is Salvador, Dali.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

[Roland Hutchinson]

On Mon, 02 Apr 2012 14:22:03 -0500, Mark Brader wrote:

> James Hogg:
>>> Canon with one "n" refers to a round number.
>
> Garrett Wollman:
>> I dunno, there's an awful lot of f/2.8 and f/1.4 in their product line,
>> particularly the L series.
>
> Are you actually suggesting that powers of 1/sqrt(2) are *not* round
> numbers??!?!?!?
>
> :-)

Many powers of sqrt(2) are square numbers.

How do you fit a square number into a round reciprocal?

--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )

[Peter Young]

On 4 Apr 2012 Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> Jeffrey Turner wrote:
>> On 4/3/2012 3:17 AM, Peter Young wrote:
>>> On 3 Apr 2012 Peter Moylan<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Peter Brooks wrote:
>>>>> On Apr 1, 11:08 pm, Peter Young<pnyo...@ormail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> "Cannon to right of them, cannon to left of them ..."
>>>>>>
>>>>> 'Canons' is, on the other hand, the plural of 'Canon' - it might be
>>>>> uncomfortable to have Canons to the right and left, but it's generally
>>>>> less deadly.
>>>
>>>> A one-n canon preaches loud
>>>> A two-n cannon disperses the crowd
>>>> But I will bet my silk pyjama
>>>> (Remainder deleted because I couldn't find a rhyme.)
>>>
>>> A cannon was never fired by a llama.
>>>
>>> Cue poem about lamas and llamas.
>>
>> Hello Dalai. Well, hello Dalai...

> Hello, Dali. This is Salvador, Dali.

This is the one I was thinking of, by the great Ogden Nash:

The one-L lama,
He's a priest.
The two-L llama,
He's a beast.
And I would bet
A silk pajama
There isn't any
Three-L lllama.

[Mike L]

On Tue, 3 Apr 2012 00:32:34 -0700 (PDT), Lanarcam <lana...@yahoo.fr>
wrote:

I remember my father saying that the German immigrants around the
place when he was a boy before the war used extraneous "already" a
lot. I rather think it's now regarded as stereotypically
German-Jewish: the fashion for pseudo-Jewish words and turns of phrase
has given rise, for example, to "Enough, already!"

--
Mike.

[Mike L]

Radio 4's _Word of Mouth_ yesterday examined the changes in royal
speech during the Queen's reign. Worth a Listen Again for those who
can get it. (Does World Service carry that programme?)

--
Mike.

[Mike L]

On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 00:18:23 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 22:39:06 +0100, "John Dean" <john...@FRAGmsn.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Mike L" <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:qmvjn7pk4dsgps9j9...@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 14:49:17 +0100, "John Dean" <john...@FRAGmsn.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"AL_n" <fgdf...@fghfghfg.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:XnsA02975A6...@130.133.4.11...
>>>>> LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote in news:9tt335Fnm8U2
>>>>> @mid.individual.net:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But I am rather more interested in the idea of protestors being
>>>>>> "affronted". "Well, really! Water cannon! Whatever next?" I assume the
>>>>>> word actually used was "confronted"
>>>>>
>>>>> What is wrong with 'affronted'? Surely people should be allowed to
>>>>> protest
>>>>> in peace without being bullied, threatened or affronted; don't you
>>>>> agree?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>They may have been affronted, I was taken aback.
>>>
>>> I'm sure you wouldn't have backed down, though.
>>>
>>> It's not generally known, I think, that the UK has actually got some
>>> water-cannon. Two of them, I understand.
>>
>>Six.
>>
>>http://www.nipolicingboard.org.uk/index/our-work/content-humanrights/content-lesslethal/content-water_cannon.htm
>>
>>http://tinyurl.com/cz65qng
>
>which reports:
>
> 74. In relation to the use of water cannon, we have studied the
> videos and logs carefully. We have also examined our own notes made
> on the day. Having done so, we are satisfied that the deployment and
> use of water cannon was at all times within the PSNI Water Cannon
> Policy and compliant with the Human Rights Act 1998.
>
>One might say that the water cannon were used canonically.

Six, eh? This being the UK, four of them are probably being
cannibalised for spares for the other two, which are probably rusty. I
wonder if water cannon have trouble with lime scale.

--
Mike.

[Katy Jennison]

On 04/04/2012 23:18, Mike L wrote:

> I wonder if water cannon have trouble with lime scale.

I have a sudden vision of their remedying this by firing vinegar.

--
Katy Jennison

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

That's a thought. Is it against the Human Rights Act 1998 to fire hard
water at people? Shouldn't it be soft?

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[JOF]

On 2 Apr 2012 15:06:59 -0700, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:

>Mark Brader filted:
>>
>>I once read a style guide where one of the entries read in full:
>>
>> "'Preventative' is preferred to 'preventive'. 'Interpretive'
>> is preferred to 'interpretative'. And don't ask silly questions."
>
>Just what was that style guide trying to preventate?...r

Depends on your interpretion.

--
John

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <jkhpn7h53dsr0g5me...@4ax.com>,

Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Radio 4's _Word of Mouth_ yesterday examined the changes in royal
>speech during the Queen's reign. Worth a Listen Again for those who
>can get it. (Does World Service carry that programme?)

Even if it does, the World Service is not so ubiquitous or
standardized as to be any help in that regard.

In any event, nearly all R4 programs are available worldwide. (I
suspect only sporting events are blacked out.) This is very different
from the television situation, for reasons that are unclear to me. (I
suppose for most of these programs there's no perceived international
market, so worldwide rights cost Auntie the same as purely domestic
rights would.)

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[Joy Beeson]

On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:28:07 +1000, Peter Moylan
<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> That sentence might help me understand something that has puzzled me for
> years.
>
> When I was an adolescent I read a story, set in World War II, in which a
> German spy was unmasked because he used "already" in a sentence. I
> couldn't understand the point. I too use the word "already", and I don't
> speak German.
>
> But perhaps the point was that the word was used in a place where a
> native speaker of English wouldn't use it. It's a pity I can't remember
> the original sentence.

About fifty years ago, I attempted to write "our once-skinny treasury
is prettily plump" in German. When correcting the paper, my teacher
crossed out an umlaut and made the perfectly idiomatic "Our
once-skinny treasury is already fat."

I'm not at all sure what a German means by "already", but it isn't
always "already."

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net

[Peter Brooks]

On Apr 5, 9:48 am, Joy Beeson <jbee...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 10:28:07 +1000, Peter Moylan
>

> <inva...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> > That sentence might help me understand something that has puzzled me for
> > years.
>
> > When I was an adolescent I read a story, set in World War II, in which a
> > German spy was unmasked because he used "already" in a sentence. I
> > couldn't understand the point. I too use the word "already", and I don't
> > speak German.
>
> > But perhaps the point was that the word was used in a place where a
> > native speaker of English wouldn't use it. It's a pity I can't remember
> > the original sentence.
>
> About fifty years ago, I attempted to write "our once-skinny treasury
> is prettily plump" in German.  When correcting the paper, my teacher
> crossed out an umlaut and made the perfectly idiomatic "Our
> once-skinny treasury is already fat."
>
> I'm not at all sure what a German means by "already", but it isn't
> always "already."
>

You're suggesting, though, that, sometimes, it means 'prettily'...?

[James Hogg]

Only with an umlaut.

--
James