An interesting compromise
James Hogg
where the character played by Brenda Blethyn had the line:
"I don't know which of them is the more impudent, she or him."
--
James
CyberCypher
Yep. About as interesting as "Just between you and I" and other
linguistic idiocies that their perpetrators and defenders are wont to
label "idiomatic" and "acceptable".
--
Ignorance breeds wonder, shock, and awe in the ignorant.
Skitt
> James Hogg wrote:
>> I've just been watching the second episode of "War and Peace",
>> where the character played by Brenda Blethyn had the line:
>>
>> "I don't know which of them is the more impudent, she or him."
>
> Yep. About as interesting as "Just between you and I" and other
> linguistic idiocies that their perpetrators and defenders are wont to
> label "idiomatic" and "acceptable".
Yup.
Greetings and salutations, Franke.
--
Skitt (AmE)
CyberCypher
Hi, Skitt. Thank you.
I've retired from English teaching and am now working for a local
national university as a technical writer. Still in Taiwan, of course.
My wife died of metastatic breast cancer in December 2008, so I'm a
single parent. My son will be thirteen years old and in the 8th grade
in two months. My 85-year-old stepmother is moving here from sunny,
funny Dayton, Ohio (Home of the Slate-Gray Sky and 24/7/365 SAD
[seasonal affective disorder]), to help me raise him. My father would
have come too, had he not died two years ago.
Another tech-writer/tech-editor I know wrote to me yesterday and said
this: "I read one of your blog posts a few weeks ago. Do you run a
GULag on the east coast for repeat grammar offenders? If not, you
should." I haven't changed much, despite an abdominal hernia
operation. But because I have to work in an office forty hours a week
now, I don't plan on resuming regular posting to aue. Today's posts
were something like an American drive-by.
That's the local news for now.
--
"True friends stab you in the front." Oscar Wilde
the Omrud
> On Jun 14, 6:40 am, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>> I've just been watching the second episode of "War and Peace",
>> where the character played by Brenda Blethyn had the line:
>>
>> "I don't know which of them is the more impudent, she or him."
>
> Yep. About as interesting as "Just between you and I" and other
> linguistic idiocies that their perpetrators and defenders are wont to
> label "idiomatic" and "acceptable".
Cor, hello. I hope you've not been falling off your motorbike again.
--
David
Leslie Danks
[...]
> That's the local news for now.
I wish you well.
--
Les (BrE)
JerryS
> On Jun 14, 6:40 am, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've just been watching the second episode of "War and Peace",
> > where the character played by Brenda Blethyn had the line:
>
> > "I don't know which of them is the more impudent, she or him."
>
> Yep. About as interesting as "Just between you and I" and other
> linguistic idiocies that their perpetrators and defenders are wont to
> label "idiomatic" and "acceptable".
Your preferred alternatives for each?
--
Thanks.
Marius Hancu
CyberCypher
Hi, Marius.
The only acceptable alternative for "Just between you and I" is "Just
between you and me".
For "I don't know which of them is the more impudent, she or him.", I
would have to choose either "she or he" in formal English or "her or
him" in colloquial English. While the latter is not grammatically
correct, it at least has the virtue of being consistent. In dialog,
however, it really doesn't matter. The author either knows what it's
[1] doing when it writes one of these three alternatives (i.e.,
indicating something about the speaker's social and educational status
by using the pedantic formal, the consistent colloquial informal, or
the dumbed-down inconsistent mixed version of "she or him", or else
knows nothing about how to use English because it (the author) is
merely an ignorant toad that croaks the way almost everyone else in
the pond does because it's more convenient to be a slave to mothers'
knees, mothers' kneecaps, and the rest of the excuses offered by non-
thinking scribblers possessed of and by their various levels of
academic and practical credentials than it is to deliberately opt for
one writing style instead of another in any given context.
FOOTNOTE: [1] I usually prefer the gender-neutral "it" to the gawd-
awful singular "they/their/them" forms when the author and its gender
are both unknown. If it's good enough for a child of either sex
dressed in yellow or green, it ought to be no worse for an adult
dressed in Harry Potter's invisibility cloak.
--
The opinions expressed in this post are solely those of the author and
not at all attributable to the vast majority of anglophone humanity,
which believes in the supremacy of mob-thought and that each member of
that majority natively speaks the only version of "standard English"
that they will need, regardless of its idiosyncrasies. My words are
not in the public domain but are protected by DRM software supplied by
the Disney Corporation, the RIAA, and other cybercriminal syndicates.
Quote me without payment at your own peril.
CyberCypher
Hello, David. No, I've been a good boy these past three years and ride
my bike much more slowly. These days, though, I prefer to walk or ride
my bicycle. I've lost 7.5 kg since February. Only another 10 or 20 to
go.
CyberCypher
> CyberCypher wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > That's the local news for now.
>
> I wish you well.
Thank you, Les.
the Omrud
Glad to hear it. Stay safe.
--
David
Pat Durkin
news:82063cae-5205-4587...@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com
All good news in that regard (weight and safety). I suppose any long
absence means that, upon reacquaintance, many patterns of our lives
change. I am sorry that you will not be able to post as often as
before.
Charles Riggs (now Chuck) is gone again after returning for a while. I
think he is seeking a new ISP.
R H Draney
>
>The only acceptable alternative for "Just between you and I" is "Just
>between you and me".
My lyricist once used "between me and you"...while I didn't realize it at the
time, it now seems a perfect solution....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Skitt
> My wife died of metastatic breast cancer in December 2008, ...
I'm sorry to hear that. You have my condolences.
--
Skitt (AmE)
Robin Bignall
wrote:
>CyberCypher wrote, in part:
>
>> My wife died of metastatic breast cancer in December 2008, ...
>
>I'm sorry to hear that. You have my condolences.
Mine, too. Try to drive by as often as you can Bill.
--
Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England
Maria Conlon
>
> I've retired from English teaching and am now working for a local
> national university as a technical writer. Still in Taiwan, of course.
> My wife died of metastatic breast cancer in December 2008, so I'm a
> single parent. My son will be thirteen years old and in the 8th grade
> in two months. My 85-year-old stepmother is moving here from sunny,
> funny Dayton, Ohio (Home of the Slate-Gray Sky and 24/7/365 SAD
> [seasonal affective disorder]), to help me raise him. My father would
> have come too, had he not died two years ago.
>
> Another tech-writer/tech-editor I know wrote to me yesterday and said
> this: "I read one of your blog posts a few weeks ago. Do you run a
> GULag on the east coast for repeat grammar offenders? If not, you
> should." I haven't changed much, despite an abdominal hernia
> operation. But because I have to work in an office forty hours a week
> now, I don't plan on resuming regular posting to aue. Today's posts
> were something like an American drive-by.
> That's the local news for now.
Sorry for your troubles, Bill.
It's good to see you posting now, after your noticed absence. Here's
hoping you will park for a while next time you drive by.
--
Maria Conlon
CyberCypher
> CyberCypher filted:
>
> >The only acceptable alternative for "Just between you and I" is "Just
> >between you and me".
>
> My lyricist once used "between me and you"...while I didn't realize it at the
> time, it now seems a perfect solution....r
For song lyrics, stories, and letters to friends, it almost doesn't
matter what one writes or says; all that matters is whether it works
in context. The style rules of formal printed and spoken English are
rather rigid and should never be applied to creative writing or
colloquial speech. The style rules of formal printed and spoken
English are *not* inviolable grammar or usage rules, except when and
where they apply, and they do apply for authors who want their work
published in certain journals, for writers of theses and
dissertations, and for students in English classes. They are merely
the preferences of those who lay down these rules and enforce 'em, if
they can.
Even though my younger son is a native speaker of Chinese and can
write thousands of characters, he doesn't know the proper stroke order
for all of them. I, on the other hand, do, but my written Chinese is
not particularly good. Taiwanese can read my son's and they can read
mine. Were I a calligrapher, I'd be able to produce better
calligraphic art than my son simply because my knowledge of stroke
order is better than his. He would be criticized by other
calligraphers for ignoring proper stroke order.
The same goes for the sociolinguistics of English usage and style
choices made by native speakers of the language, especially those who
label themselves as educated and experts. Their language is
scrutinized much more than is the language of the schlubs on the
street who know only kneecap dialects. They are naturally assumed to
be ignorant and ill-educated and are not asked for their opinions
about idiomatic, acceptable Standard English, except by linguistics
students doing papers on what the poor and obscure say and how they
say it, and by descriptive linguists with political agendas topped off
by misguided egalitarianism.
--
Never argue with an angry bull or a fool: he will transform you from
one into the other.
CyberCypher
Thank you, Skitt.
CyberCypher
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 10:22:09 -0700, "Skitt" <skit...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> >CyberCypher wrote, in part:
>
> >> My wife died of metastatic breast cancer in December 2008, ...
>
> >I'm sorry to hear that. You have my condolences.
>
> Mine, too. Try to drive by as often as you can Bill.
Thank you, Robin
CyberCypher
Sara Lorimer
I've retired from English teaching and am now working for a local
> national university as a technical writer. Still in Taiwan, of course.
> My wife died of metastatic breast cancer in December 2008, so I'm a
> single parent.
I'm sorry about this, Franke. Hope things are going as well as they can.
--
SML
Mike Lyle
I seem to have missed this sad news, Franke. I'm very sorry to read it.
(You don't need to reply to this.)
--
Mike.
CyberCypher
Thank you, Sara. They are.