Cucumber sandwiches
tony cooper
James book. In the first chapter Dalgliesh is having "...thin brown
bread and butter, bite-size cucumber sandwiches and homemade sponge
and fruit cakes...".
This, of course, is hardly the first time I've read of the British
eating cucumber sandwiches. It seems, if you believe what you read,
that cricket brings on the munchies for cucumber sandwiches.
But why? How on earth did cucumber become a sandwich item? (And, are
they real sandwiches or open-faced?)
I like cucumber. My wife regularly prepares cucumbers and raw onion
marinaded in oil and vinegar as a salad course. I order cucumber,
along with other condiments, on subs. But a sandwich of nothing but a
slice of cucumber? I wouldn't consider that a sandwich. I could see
it on one of those buffet snack tables set out at a party next to the
smoked oysters, pigs-in-a-blanket, and veggies and dip.
Do our UK RR's routinely consume cucumber sandwiches, or are they only
set out in print by authors?
Drifting a bit...the cucumber sandwiches were consumed in an
"Edwardian Villa in Swiss Cottage". So not to be reviled as Hayesian
by the pit bull of Santa Rosa, I looked up Swiss Cottage and know why
it is called that.
But I also found that there is a pub on Finchley Road with the name
"Ye Olde Swiss Cottage". That's tacky.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
LFS
> I finished the novels set in Scotland and have moved on to a P.D.
> James book. In the first chapter Dalgliesh is having "...thin brown
> bread and butter, bite-size cucumber sandwiches and homemade sponge
> and fruit cakes...".
>
> This, of course, is hardly the first time I've read of the British
> eating cucumber sandwiches. It seems, if you believe what you read,
> that cricket brings on the munchies for cucumber sandwiches.
>
> But why? How on earth did cucumber become a sandwich item? (And, are
> they real sandwiches or open-faced?)
They are real sandwiches, typically made with very thinly sliced white
bread with the crusts removed, sliced diagonally to make four dainty
triangles - see
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3191/2590728016_cbd3eb4930_o.jpg
The wiki article, while clearly written by a Leftpondian (a Pullman
loaf?) is quite interesting in its speculations.
>
> I like cucumber. My wife regularly prepares cucumbers and raw onion
> marinaded in oil and vinegar as a salad course. I order cucumber,
> along with other condiments, on subs. But a sandwich of nothing but a
> slice of cucumber? I wouldn't consider that a sandwich. I could see
> it on one of those buffet snack tables set out at a party next to the
> smoked oysters, pigs-in-a-blanket, and veggies and dip.
>
> Do our UK RR's routinely consume cucumber sandwiches, or are they only
> set out in print by authors?
Afternoon tea at a posh hotel is a pleasant, if expensive, celebratory
event. Cucumber sandwiches are a standard item: for example, see the
menu at the Ritz:
http://www.theritzlondon.com/pdfmenus/PALM%20COURT%20menu.pdf
We provide a classic afternoon tea when our movie group meets at our
house - dainty sandwiches, scones, jam and cream and several varieties
of cake - but I tend not to make cucumber sandwiches because some of the
group don't like them, finding cucumber indigestible.
>
> Drifting a bit...the cucumber sandwiches were consumed in an
> "Edwardian Villa in Swiss Cottage". So not to be reviled as Hayesian
> by the pit bull of Santa Rosa, I looked up Swiss Cottage and know why
> it is called that.
>
> But I also found that there is a pub on Finchley Road with the name
> "Ye Olde Swiss Cottage". That's tacky.
>
When I was very young and travelled regularly along Finchley Road (I
have a vague feeling that it was "the Finchley Road" then) it was just
"The Swiss Cottage", a famous landmark to be watched for from the bus. I
think there has been a pub on that site since the late 18th century.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
the Omrud
> I finished the novels set in Scotland and have moved on to a P.D.
> James book. In the first chapter Dalgliesh is having "...thin brown
> bread and butter, bite-size cucumber sandwiches and homemade sponge
> and fruit cakes...".
>
> This, of course, is hardly the first time I've read of the British
> eating cucumber sandwiches. It seems, if you believe what you read,
> that cricket brings on the munchies for cucumber sandwiches.
>
> But why? How on earth did cucumber become a sandwich item? (And, are
> they real sandwiches or open-faced?)
>
> I like cucumber. My wife regularly prepares cucumbers and raw onion
> marinaded in oil and vinegar as a salad course. I order cucumber,
> along with other condiments, on subs. But a sandwich of nothing but a
> slice of cucumber? I wouldn't consider that a sandwich. I could see
> it on one of those buffet snack tables set out at a party next to the
> smoked oysters, pigs-in-a-blanket, and veggies and dip.
>
> Do our UK RR's routinely consume cucumber sandwiches, or are they only
> set out in print by authors?
The only time I can remember eating cucumber sandwiches was on July 4th
1976. I was at summer camp in PA - all the British staff got together
to play cricket as a way of expressing our own identity on that day, and
we ate cucumber sandwiches during the break.
I suspect that you will find very few cucumber sandwich eaters north of
Birmingham. And it seems to me that the very best thing about a
cucumber sandwich would be the taste of butter and ground black pepper,
which is why white bread is used, so as not to drown the flavour.
--
David
Richard Chambers
> Drifting a bit...the cucumber sandwiches were consumed in an
> "Edwardian Villa in Swiss Cottage". So not to be reviled as Hayesian
> by the pit bull of Santa Rosa, I looked up Swiss Cottage and know why
> it is called that.
Well done. You made me laugh.
Richard Chambers Leeds UK.
Richard Chambers
>I finished the novels set in Scotland and have moved on to a P.D.
> James book. In the first chapter Dalgliesh is having "...thin brown
> bread and butter, bite-size cucumber sandwiches and homemade sponge
> and fruit cakes...".
>
> This, of course, is hardly the first time I've read of the British
> eating cucumber sandwiches. It seems, if you believe what you read,
> that cricket brings on the munchies for cucumber sandwiches.
>
> But why? How on earth did cucumber become a sandwich item? (And, are
> they real sandwiches or open-faced?)
>
> I like cucumber. My wife regularly prepares cucumbers and raw onion
> marinaded in oil and vinegar as a salad course. I order cucumber,
> along with other condiments, on subs. But a sandwich of nothing but a
> slice of cucumber? I wouldn't consider that a sandwich. I could see
> it on one of those buffet snack tables set out at a party next to the
> smoked oysters, pigs-in-a-blanket, and veggies and dip.
>
> Do our UK RR's routinely consume cucumber sandwiches, or are they only
> set out in print by authors?
I have exactly the same opinion of cucumber sandwiches as you have. Bland.
Yet I have eaten them on occasion, when they have been offered to me. I used
to play cricket (very occasionally, when all the good players were sick),
but had cucumber sandwiches during the tea interval of only one match, as
far as I can recall.
Much better uses for cucumber exist:-
A few chunks of peeled cucumber, approximating to 1.5 x 1.5 x 1.5 cm
Chunks of rough-chopped peeled onion, raw, of similar size and number
(alternative: rough-chopped spring onion)
Chunks of rough-chopped eating apple (not peeled), of similar size and
number
Unsweetened plain yoghurt (e.g. Greek yoghurt)
Course-ground pepper (or a sprinkle of paprika)
[NB make this recipe in small quantities. A little goes a long way. Nobody
will want large helpings.].
Mix the first three ingredients in a small bowl. Add sufficient yoghurt to
coat all the ingredients when stirred in. Sprinkle with a little
coarse-ground black pepper. Serve with salads. For a variation, use a
sprinkling of paprika instead of black pepper.
If you ever cook an Indian curry, the mixture is a fine accompaniment for
that as well. Indeed, the idea was originally based on Raita, which is a
standard side-dish at most Indian restaurants.
This development from Raita is my own culinary invention. Please let me know
your opinion of it. My wife does not like it, but I do, so I would
appreciate an independent second opinion.
Richard Chambers Leeds UK.
Wood Avens
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>Do our UK RR's routinely consume cucumber sandwiches, or are they only
>set out in print by authors?
They seem to go particularly well with hot summer days, so on the rare
occasions when we get such days I'm quite likely to make myself
cucumber sandwiches for lunch. A glass of Pimm's is the ideal
accompaniment.
If I said they tasted cool, would anyone recognise what I meant?
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
Richard Chambers
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:42:01 -0500, tony cooper
> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Do our UK RR's routinely consume cucumber sandwiches, or are they only
>>set out in print by authors?
>
> They seem to go particularly well with hot summer days, so on the rare
> occasions when we get such days I'm quite likely to make myself
> cucumber sandwiches for lunch. A glass of Pimm's is the ideal
> accompaniment.
>
> If I said they tasted cool, would anyone recognise what I meant?
Yeah, maam, real cool wi' barb'cue sauce, real cool maam.
Richard Chambers Leeds UK.
LFS
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 00:42:01 -0500, tony cooper
> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>> Do our UK RR's routinely consume cucumber sandwiches, or are they only
>> set out in print by authors?
>
> They seem to go particularly well with hot summer days, so on the rare
> occasions when we get such days I'm quite likely to make myself
> cucumber sandwiches for lunch. A glass of Pimm's is the ideal
> accompaniment.
>
> If I said they tasted cool, would anyone recognise what I meant?
>
Forget the sandwiches, the cucumber belongs in the Pimm's. It is
delicious when thoroughly infused with the drink and can be fished out
with the straw and sucked. Hm, I have all the makings in the fridge but
it's wet and miserable and more of a whisky day, really...
Lars Eighner
lovely and talented tony cooper broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> But why? How on earth did cucumber become a sandwich item? (And, are
> they real sandwiches or open-faced?)
The ones I have been served by anglophile relatives involved finely minced
cucumber (sans any green part) in a cream cheese (or similar) paste ---
maybe a little dill weed. They were very bland (think English cuisine here)
on crust-deprived white bread cut twice on the diagonals. From that I
improvised versions of my own involving quite a lot of fresh ground black
pepper and a hint of garlic which were really quite good.
--
Lars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> September 5918, 1993
296 days since Rick Warren prayed over Bush's third term.
Obama: No hope, no change, more of the same. Yes, he can, but no, he won't.
LFS
> In our last episode, <hpqpf5dbd21n7m7bq...@4ax.com>, the
> lovely and talented tony cooper broadcast on alt.usage.english:
>
>> But why? How on earth did cucumber become a sandwich item? (And, are
>> they real sandwiches or open-faced?)
>
> The ones I have been served by anglophile relatives involved finely minced
> cucumber (sans any green part) in a cream cheese (or similar) paste ---
> maybe a little dill weed. They were very bland (think English cuisine here)
> on crust-deprived white bread cut twice on the diagonals. From that I
> improvised versions of my own involving quite a lot of fresh ground black
> pepper and a hint of garlic which were really quite good.
>
Finely minced cucumber? The mind boggles!
Don Phillipson
news:hpqpf5dbd21n7m7bq...@4ax.com...
> I finished the novels set in Scotland and have moved on to a P.D.
> James book. In the first chapter Dalgliesh is having "...thin brown
> bread and butter, bite-size cucumber sandwiches and homemade sponge
> and fruit cakes...".
> . . .
> But why? How on earth did cucumber become a sandwich item? (And, are
> they real sandwiches or open-faced?)
Cucumber sandwiches are a traditional teatime delicacy in the
summer months. They may be open-faced (single slice of white
bread) or not (two slices). They support the convention that the
meal called "tea" has two distinct courses, the first nonsweet (like a
supper entree) and the second sugary (usually cake.)
(Unpickled) raw sliced cucumber adds a unique "mouth feel" to white
bread and butter. Piquancy can be added by a trace of Marmite.
Cucumber is also used in Pimm's No. 1 Cup, a refreshing summer-
time drink (with gin and lemonade) associated with cricket.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Roland Hutchinson
One notes from Leftpondia that all our British correspondents have
mentioned the presence of butter in such a way as to suggest that its
presence was unremarkable -- that, indeed, buttering the bread is the
normal, expected, default procedure when making any kind of sandwich.
One further notes that this a a cultural, rather than a linguistic,
pondian difference, inasmuch as sandwiches made with butter are known in
the USA, but are not in any way considered normative.
--
Roland Hutchinson
He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
Wood Avens
>"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:hpqpf5dbd21n7m7bq...@4ax.com...
>
>> I finished the novels set in Scotland and have moved on to a P.D.
>> James book. In the first chapter Dalgliesh is having "...thin brown
>> bread and butter, bite-size cucumber sandwiches and homemade sponge
>> and fruit cakes...".
>> . . .
>> But why? How on earth did cucumber become a sandwich item? (And, are
>> they real sandwiches or open-faced?)
>
>Cucumber sandwiches are a traditional teatime delicacy in the
>summer months. They may be open-faced (single slice of white
>bread) or not (two slices). They support the convention that the
>meal called "tea" has two distinct courses, the first nonsweet (like a
>supper entree) and the second sugary (usually cake.)
>
>(Unpickled) raw sliced cucumber adds a unique "mouth feel" to white
>bread and butter. Piquancy can be added by a trace of Marmite.
It now occurs to me that the sort of cucumbers we usually get in the
Uk, and from which we make sandwiches, aren't the same as the regular
US ones. Ours are longer (roughly twice as long) and more ridged.
The Google images page for "cucumber" http://tinyurl.com/yc34zw6 shows
mainly the US sort, but the standard Brit variety can be seen in the
left-most picture in the second row. Note the characteristic thin
proximal section.
I wouldn't swear to it, but my impression is that these have a
slightly more cucumberish flavour than the US kind.
James Silverton
I think freshly minced cucumber (or rather grated) is more appropriate
to Indian cuisine, as with yoghurt in a Raita. I cannot say I have any
enthusiasm for cucumber sandwiches but thinly sliced cucumber with only
salt and dill is very good with salmon.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Wood Avens
<my.sp...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>One notes from Leftpondia that all our British correspondents have
>mentioned the presence of butter in such a way as to suggest that its
>presence was unremarkable -- that, indeed, buttering the bread is the
>normal, expected, default procedure when making any kind of sandwich.
>
>One further notes that this a a cultural, rather than a linguistic,
>pondian difference, inasmuch as sandwiches made with butter are known in
>the USA, but are not in any way considered normative.
Is there a default lubricant or a default water-impermeable layer in
US sandwiches? Mayo seems common.
Roland Hutchinson
Mayo is common. In fact, I'd say it's common enough that you'd have to
ask or say "hold the mayo" to be completely certain to avoid getting it
on many kinds of sandwiches. Nonetheless, it doesn't quite seem to be a
default to me. Mustard would be equally or more likely for some fillers
(e.g. a ham sandwich), though not as efficient as a moisture barrier
(which ham ought not to need).
I'm actually a butter man myself, but that's a minority preference here.
If you are ordering a sandwich at a sandwich counter, the counter person
will generally ask before putting anything on the bread. The
conversation often might go (with me): "Mayo?" "No mayo. Butter,
please." Occasionally the butter is still in the refrigerator because it
is asked for so seldom that it isn't put on on the (chilled) service
counter.
Oh -- and a cheese sandwich here is made with sliced (never shredded)
cheese and defaults to no butter.
Roland Hutchinson
The UK kind is occasionally encountered in the US, sold as "English
cucumber".
Not being a cucumber person, I don't have an opinion about difference of
taste between the two.
the Omrud
Why doesn't it just fall apart? Part of the reason for the butter is to
stick the bread to the ingredients.
"Grated" for cheese in BrE. I'm not quite how one would go about
shredding cheese. Mind, this "sandwich" probably contains "cheese".
--
David
LFS
Apparently one can also shave cheese, which I find rather an odd notion.
It seems to be only parmesan that gets shaved, though.
the Omrud
The cucumbers which Dad grows in the garden (I've never tried growing
them) are rather like those sold in French supermarkets. They are
short, stubby, knobbly, and the skin is considerably thicker and much
more flavoured than the pale British supermarket cucumber. Perhaps the
UK supermarket cucumbers are grown in greenhouses, but the French ones
are grown outdoors, like Dad's.
--
David
Jerry Friedman
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:58:08 +0000 (UTC), Roland Hutchinson
>
>
> >One notes from Leftpondia that all our British correspondents have
> >mentioned the presence of butter in such a way as to suggest that its
> >presence was unremarkable -- that, indeed, buttering the bread is the
> >normal, expected, default procedure when making any kind of sandwich.
>
> >One further notes that this a a cultural, rather than a linguistic,
> >pondian difference, inasmuch as sandwiches made with butter are known in
> >the USA, but are not in any way considered normative.
>
> Is there a default lubricant or a default water-impermeable layer in
> US sandwiches? Mayo seems common.
Peanut butter!
Just seeing what people will believe. Yes, mayo or mustard. Subs can
have oil and vinegar.
I dislike all these possibilities but have discovered that I don't
need to lubricate sandwiches and that meat and cheese are waterproof
enough. However, I occasionally get sandwiches from Whole Foods'
sandwich bar, and one of their spreads is basil pesto. That's much
better.
--
Jerry Friedman
LFS
My mum complained often about the smoothness of the modern supermarket
cucumber, insisting that they didn't taste as good as knobbly ones. She
used to make a delicious cucumber salad with a dressing of acetic acid
and caster sugar.
Upthread Don refers to open-faced cucumber sandwiches, something I have
never seen.
the Omrud
> On Nov 13, 7:39 am, Wood Avens <woodav...@askjennison.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:58:08 +0000 (UTC), Roland Hutchinson
>>
>> <my.spamt...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> One notes from Leftpondia that all our British correspondents have
>>> mentioned the presence of butter in such a way as to suggest that its
>>> presence was unremarkable -- that, indeed, buttering the bread is the
>>> normal, expected, default procedure when making any kind of sandwich.
>>> One further notes that this a a cultural, rather than a linguistic,
>>> pondian difference, inasmuch as sandwiches made with butter are known in
>>> the USA, but are not in any way considered normative.
>> Is there a default lubricant or a default water-impermeable layer in
>> US sandwiches? Mayo seems common.
>
> Peanut butter!
>
> Just seeing what people will believe. Yes, mayo or mustard. Subs can
> have oil and vinegar.
What about a jam or honey sandwich? The advantage of butter is that it
goes with both sweet and (BrE) savoury fillings.
When I was very small, we were occasionally given brown sugar sandwiches
by one of my grannies. The mixture of sugar and butter is delicious, as
anybody who has made a cake can testify. And the granulated brown sugar
was satisfyingly crunchy.
--
David
Wood Avens
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>the Omrud wrote:
>> "Grated" for cheese in BrE. I'm not quite how one would go about
>> shredding cheese. Mind, this "sandwich" probably contains "cheese".
>>
>
>Apparently one can also shave cheese, which I find rather an odd notion.
>It seems to be only parmesan that gets shaved, though.
I assume this is because "shaved" appears to mean "exceedingly thin",
and parmesan has a fine, dense consistency which allows it to be
shaved so thinly that it's almost transparent. And it's suficiently
flavoured that a shaving actually tastes of cheese. And, I suppose,
because a cheese-shaving device is not dissimilar to a safety-razor.
Irwell
> The cucumbers which Dad grows in the garden (I've never tried growing
> them) are rather like those sold in French supermarkets. They are
> short, stubby, knobbly, and the skin is considerably thicker and much
> more flavoured than the pale British supermarket cucumber. Perhaps the
> UK supermarket cucumbers are grown in greenhouses, but the French ones
> are grown outdoors, like Dad's.
Complet avec water borne E.Coli?
the Omrud
It's not mentioned on the packet.
--
David
Wood Avens
<usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>When I was very small, we were occasionally given brown sugar sandwiches
>by one of my grannies. The mixture of sugar and butter is delicious, as
>anybody who has made a cake can testify. And the granulated brown sugar
>was satisfyingly crunchy.
Hundreds-and-thousands on bread and butter for birthday tea. Visually
exciting as well as deliciously crunchy.
When we were small, we weren't allowed jam or honey or Marmite on our
first slice of bread: it had to be butter only. We were allowed jam
as well as butter on the second and subsequent slices. In retrospect,
I can't quite see why, since I can't imagine that butter was cheaper,
especially since all the jam in the household had been made at home.
But that's how it was.
Arcadian Rises
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:31:36 -0500, Don Phillipson wrote:
> >news:hpqpf5dbd21n7m7bq...@4ax.com...
>
> >> I finished the novels set in Scotland and have moved on to a P.D. James
> >> book. �In the first chapter Dalgliesh is having "...thin brown bread
> >> and butter, bite-size cucumber sandwiches and homemade sponge and fruit
> >> cakes...".
> >> �. . .
> >> But why? �How on earth did cucumber become a sandwich item? �(And, are
> >> they real sandwiches or open-faced?)
>
> > Cucumber sandwiches are a traditional teatime delicacy in the summer
> > months. � They may be open-faced (single slice of white bread) or not
> > (two slices). �They support the convention that the meal called "tea"
> > has two distinct courses, the first nonsweet (like a supper entree) and
> > the second sugary (usually cake.)
>
> > (Unpickled) raw sliced cucumber adds a unique "mouth feel" to white
> > bread and butter. �Piquancy can be added by a trace of Marmite.
>
> > Cucumber is also used in Pimm's No. 1 Cup, a refreshing summer- time
> > drink (with gin and lemonade) associated with cricket.
>
> One notes from Leftpondia that all our British correspondents have
> mentioned the presence of butter in such a way as to suggest that its
> presence was unremarkable -- that, indeed, buttering the bread is the
> normal, expected, default procedure when making any kind of sandwich.
>
> One further notes that this a a cultural, rather than a linguistic,
> pondian difference, inasmuch as sandwiches made with butter are known in
> the USA, but are not in any way considered normative.
What about peanut butter sandwiches? [Yuck!]
LFS
> tony cooper wrote:
>> I finished the novels set in Scotland and have moved on to a P.D.
>> James book. In the first chapter Dalgliesh is having "...thin brown
>> bread and butter, bite-size cucumber sandwiches and homemade sponge
>> and fruit cakes...".
>>
>> eating cucumber sandwiches. It seems, if you believe what you read,
>> that cricket brings on the munchies for cucumber sandwiches.
>>
>> they real sandwiches or open-faced?)
>>
>> marinaded in oil and vinegar as a salad course. I order cucumber,
>> along with other condiments, on subs. But a sandwich of nothing but a
>> slice of cucumber? I wouldn't consider that a sandwich. I could see
>> it on one of those buffet snack tables set out at a party next to the
>> smoked oysters, pigs-in-a-blanket, and veggies and dip.
>>
>> set out in print by authors?
>>
>
> gastronomic-time-wasters to the remnants of the Victorian stiff-upper
> lip and thin-red line. While a cucumber sandwich is barely palatable, I
> cannot understand how anything other than sadomasochism can be the
> source of watercress sandwiches.
Watercress should not be confused with cress, though, the canonical
ingredient of egg and cress sandwiches, another dainty afternoon tea
delicacy. One might also have tinned salmon and cress sandwiches.
Jerry Friedman
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Nov 13, 7:39 am, Wood Avens <woodav...@askjennison.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:58:08 +0000 (UTC), Roland Hutchinson
>
> >> <my.spamt...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>> One notes from Leftpondia that all our British correspondents have
> >>> mentioned the presence of butter in such a way as to suggest that its
> >>> presence was unremarkable -- that, indeed, buttering the bread is the
> >>> normal, expected, default procedure when making any kind of sandwich.
> >>> One further notes that this a a cultural, rather than a linguistic,
> >>> pondian difference, inasmuch as sandwiches made with butter are known in
> >>> the USA, but are not in any way considered normative.
> >> Is there a default lubricant or a default water-impermeable layer in
> >> US sandwiches? Mayo seems common.
>
> > Peanut butter!
>
> > Just seeing what people will believe. Yes, mayo or mustard. Subs can
> > have oil and vinegar.
>
> What about a jam or honey sandwich?
I sometimes have jam (=AmE "jelly") or honey on plain bread, which
works fine. Of course, in America people really are far more likely
to have peanut butter and jelly or honey sandwiches.
> The advantage of butter is that it
> goes with both sweet and (BrE) savoury fillings.
I don't get that. When you make a sandwich, don't you know what
filling you're going to have and choose the spread that you like best
with it? I can see versatility as an advantage only if you know
you'll be making lots of sandwiches in short order--then you could
butter a lot of slices of bread and be ready for whatever people
want. (But don't bother to butter the bread for mine.)
> When I was very small, we were occasionally given brown sugar sandwiches
> by one of my grannies. The mixture of sugar and butter is delicious, as
> anybody who has made a cake can testify. And the granulated brown sugar
> was satisfyingly crunchy.
Raisin toast with butter, brown sugar, and cinnamon in my smaller
days. Could we have had a shaker-top jar with "cinnamon sugar" in it?
--
Jerry Friedman
the Omrud
> On Nov 13, 8:53 am, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> On Nov 13, 7:39 am, Wood Avens <woodav...@askjennison.com> wrote:
>>>> Is there a default lubricant or a default water-impermeable layer in
>>>> US sandwiches? Mayo seems common.
>>> Peanut butter!
>>> Just seeing what people will believe. Yes, mayo or mustard. Subs can
>>> have oil and vinegar.
>> What about a jam or honey sandwich?
>
> I sometimes have jam (=AmE "jelly") or honey on plain bread, which
> works fine. Of course, in America people really are far more likely
> to have peanut butter and jelly or honey sandwiches.
>
>> The advantage of butter is that it
>> goes with both sweet and (BrE) savoury fillings.
>
> I don't get that. When you make a sandwich, don't you know what
> filling you're going to have and choose the spread that you like best
> with it? I can see versatility as an advantage only if you know
> you'll be making lots of sandwiches in short order--then you could
> butter a lot of slices of bread and be ready for whatever people
> want. (But don't bother to butter the bread for mine.)
Yes, but butter is so darned delicious that I am glad to be able to eat
it under all sandwichy conditions. Many choose a non-dairy emulsified
vegetable fat spread, of course, which I can understand, but these only
serve the practical purposes of glue and waterproofness. They taste of
nothing at all.
--
David
the Omrud
> tony cooper wrote:
>> I finished the novels set in Scotland and have moved on to a P.D.
>> James book. In the first chapter Dalgliesh is having "...thin brown
>> bread and butter, bite-size cucumber sandwiches and homemade sponge
>> and fruit cakes...".
>>
>> This, of course, is hardly the first time I've read of the British
>> eating cucumber sandwiches. It seems, if you believe what you read,
>> that cricket brings on the munchies for cucumber sandwiches.
>>
>> But why? How on earth did cucumber become a sandwich item? (And, are
>> they real sandwiches or open-faced?)
>>
>> I like cucumber. My wife regularly prepares cucumbers and raw onion
>> marinaded in oil and vinegar as a salad course. I order cucumber,
>> along with other condiments, on subs. But a sandwich of nothing but a
>> slice of cucumber? I wouldn't consider that a sandwich. I could see
>> it on one of those buffet snack tables set out at a party next to the
>> smoked oysters, pigs-in-a-blanket, and veggies and dip.
>>
>> Do our UK RR's routinely consume cucumber sandwiches, or are they only
>> set out in print by authors?
>
> Not being a UK RR, I've always attributed such British
> gastronomic-time-wasters to the remnants of the Victorian stiff-upper
> lip and thin-red line. While a cucumber sandwich is barely palatable, I
> cannot understand how anything other than sadomasochism can be the
> source of watercress sandwiches.
But watercress is the most wonderful addition to a Marmite sandwich. It
is, indeed, my favourite sandwich. Fresh wholemeal bread, good cold
butter, Marmite and watercress.
--
David
the Omrud
There was somebody on the radio a week ago complaining that much of what
is sold as watercress is grown in fields, and should therefore be
labelled landcress. He said he could tell the difference.
--
David
Arcadian Rises
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:53:58 GMT, the Omrud
>
> >When I was very small, we were occasionally given brown sugar sandwiches
> >by one of my grannies. �The mixture of sugar and butter is delicious, as
> >anybody who has made a cake can testify. �And the granulated brown sugar
> >was satisfyingly crunchy.
>
> Hundreds-and-thousands on bread and butter for birthday tea. �Visually
> exciting as well as deliciously crunchy.
>
> When we were small, we weren't allowed jam or honey or Marmite on our
> first slice of bread: it had to be butter only. �We were allowed jam
> as well as butter on the second and subsequent slices. �In retrospect,
> I can't quite see why, since I can't imagine that butter was cheaper,
> especially since all the jam in the household had been made at home.
> But that's how it was.
It seemes like an trick to eat more: if you want jam, you must eat the
plain one first. At those times child obesity was not a problem like
nowadays, so parents were very creative with the incentives to feed
more food to their kids.
Cheryl
Maybe it was a variation on the idea that you have to eat the essentials
before you can eat any treats.
--
Cheryl
LFS
I think I can, too. True watercress has a far more peppery taste than
much of the stuff that is currently available. Most supermarket
watercress is very disappointing.
James Hogg
It was rule invented by Alfred Ayres in 1881.
--
James
Wood Avens
>Wood Avens wrote:
>>
>> When we were small, we weren't allowed jam or honey or Marmite on our
>> first slice of bread: it had to be butter only. We were allowed jam
>> as well as butter on the second and subsequent slices. In retrospect,
>> I can't quite see why, since I can't imagine that butter was cheaper,
>> especially since all the jam in the household had been made at home.
>> But that's how it was.
>>
>
>Maybe it was a variation on the idea that you have to eat the essentials
>before you can eat any treats.
That certainly rings true. A great feature of my childhood, that
principle. Finish yur homework before going out to play. Eat up your
first course before you can have any pudding. Yes, that was probably
it. Don't just sit looking at a book, go and do something useful.
Even today I have a sense of delightfully wicked decadence if I find
I've managed not to do anything useful between breakfast and coffee.
Default User
> LFS wrote on Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:25:24 +0000:
>
> > Lars Eighner wrote:
> > > In our last episode,
> > > <hpqpf5dbd21n7m7bq...@4ax.com>, the lovely and
> > > talented tony cooper broadcast on alt.usage.english:
> > >
> > > > But why? How on earth did cucumber become a sandwich item?
> > > > (And, are they real sandwiches or open-faced?)
> > >
> > > The ones I have been served by anglophile relatives involved
> > > finely minced cucumber (sans any green part) in a cream cheese
> > > (or similar) paste
> > Finely minced cucumber? The mind boggles!
>
> I think freshly minced cucumber (or rather grated) is more
> appropriate to Indian cuisine, as with yoghurt in a Raita.
I tend to think Greek.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzatziki>
Looking at the Raita entry, it seems like that might be thinner than
the Greek product, but rather similar. Obviously, the usual Wikipedia
caveats apply, as well at the typical variations that dishes can
exhibit.
Brian
--
Day 284 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
the Omrud
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:19:21 -0330, Cheryl <cper...@mun.ca> wrote:
>
>> Wood Avens wrote:
>
>>> When we were small, we weren't allowed jam or honey or Marmite on our
>>> first slice of bread: it had to be butter only. We were allowed jam
>>> as well as butter on the second and subsequent slices. In retrospect,
>>> I can't quite see why, since I can't imagine that butter was cheaper,
>>> especially since all the jam in the household had been made at home.
>>> But that's how it was.
>>>
>> Maybe it was a variation on the idea that you have to eat the essentials
>> before you can eat any treats.
>
> That certainly rings true. A great feature of my childhood, that
> principle. Finish yur homework before going out to play. Eat up your
> first course before you can have any pudding.
That one doesn't work with me. I'd rather have another sausage or a
second plate of mince than a pudding. Of course, if the sausages have
run out, I'll take the pudding.
For a while at school, I contemplated eating my pudding first, so as to
get it out of the way before getting on to the part I preferred. But
I'm just sufficiently socialised to hold myself back.
> Yes, that was probably
> it. Don't just sit looking at a book, go and do something useful.
Yep, we had a similar regime.
> Even today I have a sense of delightfully wicked decadence if I find
> I've managed not to do anything useful between breakfast and coffee.
Weekends for me, if I get to Sunday night and find that I've not
actually accomplished anything since Friday.
--
David
Chuck Riggs
>"tony cooper" <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:hpqpf5dbd21n7m7bq...@4ax.com...
>
>> I finished the novels set in Scotland and have moved on to a P.D.
>> James book. In the first chapter Dalgliesh is having "...thin brown
>> bread and butter, bite-size cucumber sandwiches and homemade sponge
>> and fruit cakes...".
>> . . .
>> But why? How on earth did cucumber become a sandwich item? (And, are
>> they real sandwiches or open-faced?)
>
>Cucumber sandwiches are a traditional teatime delicacy in the
>summer months. They may be open-faced (single slice of white
>bread) or not (two slices). They support the convention that the
>meal called "tea" has two distinct courses, the first nonsweet (like a
>supper entree) and the second sugary (usually cake.)
>
>(Unpickled) raw sliced cucumber adds a unique "mouth feel" to white
>bread and butter. Piquancy can be added by a trace of Marmite.
>
>Cucumber is also used in Pimm's No. 1 Cup, a refreshing summer-
>time drink (with gin and lemonade) associated with cricket.
Instead of having them at tea, I like mine at supper. They are perfect
just before bed, IMO, because they don't unsettle the stomach.
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs,
An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE
James Silverton
>> the Omrud wrote:
>>> "Grated" for cheese in BrE. I'm not quite how one would go
>>> about shredding cheese. Mind, this "sandwich" probably
>>> contains "cheese".
>>>
>> Apparently one can also shave cheese, which I find rather an
>> odd notion. It seems to be only parmesan that gets shaved,
>> though.
> I assume this is because "shaved" appears to mean "exceedingly
> thin", and parmesan has a fine, dense consistency which allows
> it to be shaved so thinly that it's almost transparent. And
> it's suficiently flavoured that a shaving actually tastes of
> cheese. And, I suppose, because a cheese-shaving device is
> not dissimilar to a safety-razor.
It was interesting to come across a cheese paring device in Scandinavian
cutlery many years ago, especially when "cheese paring" used to mean
stingy. We bought one and used it a lot tho the slices it made were more
the thickness of cheese as served at Northern European breakfasts.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Default User
> I sometimes have jam (=AmE "jelly")
As I'm sure you know, but to clarify, "Jelly" only refers to very
specific class of such products in the US, those made from strained
juices and high levels of pectin. Grape is typical, but apple and
others are available. The product achieves a rather solid form, and has
a degree of transparency.
<http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RHyZonXPXwQ/Rc-t-mvUQMI/AAAAAAAAAOE/_Wg3XAc45
tA/s400/grape-jelly2.jpg>
Similar things made from crushed or pureed fruit are called "jam", or
"preserves" when large pieces or whole fruits are included.
Default User
Yes. I often have butter and peanut butter if I'm having the sandwich
otherwise plain (no jam or pickles).
Mike Page
watercress beds were the source of nearly all the watercress sold in the UK.
--
Mike Page
Google me at port.ac.uk if you need to send an email.
LFS
I think some supermarkets import quite a bit from Spain.
the Omrud
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>Roland Hutchinson wrote:
>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:39:22 +0000, Wood Avens wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:58:08 +0000 (UTC), Roland Hutchinson
>>> <my.sp...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> One notes from Leftpondia that all our British correspondents have
>>>> mentioned the presence of butter in such a way as to suggest that its
>>>> presence was unremarkable -- that, indeed, buttering the bread is the
>>>> normal, expected, default procedure when making any kind of sandwich.
>>>>
>>>> One further notes that this a a cultural, rather than a linguistic,
>>>> pondian difference, inasmuch as sandwiches made with butter are known in
>>>> the USA, but are not in any way considered normative.
>>> Is there a default lubricant or a default water-impermeable layer in US
>>> sandwiches? Mayo seems common.
>>
>> Mayo is common. In fact, I'd say it's common enough that you'd have to
>> ask or say "hold the mayo" to be completely certain to avoid getting it
>> on many kinds of sandwiches. Nonetheless, it doesn't quite seem to be a
>> default to me. Mustard would be equally or more likely for some fillers
>> (e.g. a ham sandwich), though not as efficient as a moisture barrier
>> (which ham ought not to need).
>>
>> I'm actually a butter man myself, but that's a minority preference here.
>>
>> If you are ordering a sandwich at a sandwich counter, the counter person
>> will generally ask before putting anything on the bread. The
>> conversation often might go (with me): "Mayo?" "No mayo. Butter,
>> please." Occasionally the butter is still in the refrigerator because it
>> is asked for so seldom that it isn't put on on the (chilled) service
>> counter.
>>
>> Oh -- and a cheese sandwich here is made with sliced (never shredded)
>> cheese and defaults to no butter.
>
>Why doesn't it just fall apart? Part of the reason for the butter is to
>stick the bread to the ingredients.
>
That is very very true. I was in a pub one lunchtime with, among others,
a middle-aged couple[1]. He asked her to buy him a cheese sandwich while
he went to speak to someone else on a business matter. He returned and
started eating his sandwich. He had great difficulty. It was grated
cheese between two slices of bread. There was no butter, margarine or
other spread to act as an adhesive. He became increasingly frustrated
and bad tempered as shreds of cheese fell like yellow snow from the
sandwich. The more annoyed he became the broader became the grin on his
lady friend's face. As the man had at times annoyed most people who knew
him, many onlookers also developed happy smiles.
[1] "couple" in the sense that she was his mistress.
>"Grated" for cheese in BrE. I'm not quite how one would go about
>shredding cheese. Mind, this "sandwich" probably contains "cheese".
I'd shred cheese with a grater.
Using a grater:
http://www.greatknives.com/Mouli%20products/cheese%20grater%202.jpg
http://www.clusterflock.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/cheese-grater.jpg
whether you get "granules"/"crumbs" or "shreds" depends on the nature of
the cheese, its friability.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>Many choose a non-dairy emulsified
>vegetable fat spread, of course, which I can understand, but these only
>serve the practical purposes of glue and waterproofness. They taste of
>nothing at all.
Tell that to my cat!
When she was ill and refusing to eat any of her normal food the only
thing she would attempt was Flora spread.
http://www.unilever.co.uk/brands/foodbrands/Flora.aspx
LFS
You can of course buy the stuff ready grated. A former colleague claimed
to be the person who had first realised that the shreds of cheese left
when blocks were being cut and wrapped for supermarket sale could be
swept up and sold as well.
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
> Tony Cooper wrote
>
>> Drifting a bit...the cucumber sandwiches were consumed in an
>> "Edwardian Villa in Swiss Cottage". So not to be reviled as Hayesian
>> by the pit bull of Santa Rosa, I looked up Swiss Cottage and know why
>> it is called that.
> Well done. You made me laugh.
Since you're so easily amused, Dick:
<Village Idiot Steve Hayes>
Who is teh piit bull of Sanata Rosa?
And wahts an Hayesian?
</Village Idiot Steve Hayes>
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Skitt
> My mum complained often about the smoothness of the modern supermarket
> cucumber, insisting that they didn't taste as good as knobbly ones.
> She used to make a delicious cucumber salad with a dressing of acetic
> acid and caster sugar.
>
> Upthread Don refers to open-faced cucumber sandwiches, something I
> have never seen.
In my childhood, in Latvia, all sandwiches were open-faced, including the
cucumber ones. Let's see -- there were also just butter sandwiches,
butter-and-cheese sandwiches, bacon-fat sandwiches, sour cream sandwiches,
butter-and-sugar sandwiches, butter-and-salamisandwiches, butter-and-bologna
sandwiches, and others that I don't remember. They were usually on rye or
sweet-sour bread. White bread was for Sundays (sometimes).
Sweet-sour bread:
http://www.arn.lv/firmlogo/7551_small.jpg
Rye bread:
http://www.lielezers.lv/foto/rudzu_rupjmaize.png
--
Skitt (AmE)
the Omrud
> LFS wrote:
>
>> My mum complained often about the smoothness of the modern supermarket
>> cucumber, insisting that they didn't taste as good as knobbly ones.
>> She used to make a delicious cucumber salad with a dressing of acetic
>> acid and caster sugar.
>>
>> Upthread Don refers to open-faced cucumber sandwiches, something I
>> have never seen.
>
> In my childhood, in Latvia, all sandwiches were open-faced, including
> the cucumber ones. Let's see -- there were also just butter sandwiches,
Eek. I can't grok the idea of a "butter sandwich".
--
David
Skitt
How would you feel about a thick slice of Monterey Jack with a slab of
butter on it? No bread. Mmmmm.
--
Skitt (AmE)
Nick
I have one - which I refer to as a cheese-parer for just that reason.
It's strangely shaped thing that can also be used as a handy cake
server.
I actually find you can get better shavings of cheese with a potato
peeler.
To return to the subject, I don't think I've ever had a cucumber
sandwich, but I frequently put thin slices of cucumber in ham or soft
cheese sandwiches.
--
Online waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk
development version: http://canalplan.eu
erilar
tony cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> How on earth did cucumber become a sandwich item? (And, are
> they real sandwiches or open-faced?)
It may be that someone discovered that this is actually one of the two
best ways to use cucumbers, the other being in a salad.
I, however, like to ADD cucumbers to sandwiches containing other
ingredients. Good, non-white bread, chunky peanut butter, and cucumber
slices are particularly good, in my opinion.
--
Erilar, biblioholic
bib-li-o-hol-ism [<Gr biblion] n. [BIBLIO + HOLISM] books, of books:
habitual longing to purchase, read, store, admire, and consume books in excess.
erilar
LFS <la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
> One might also have tinned salmon and cress sandwiches.
That sounds delicious! I don't know whether I could find cress around
here, however.
erilar
Roland Hutchinson <my.sp...@verizon.net> wrote:
> The UK kind is occasionally encountered in the US, sold as "English
> cucumber".
They charge more for them, of course.
>
> Not being a cucumber person, I don't have an opinion about difference of
> taste between the two.
I don't remember them tasting differently.
erilar
the Omrud <usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
> The cucumbers which Dad grows in the garden (I've never tried growing
> them) are rather like those sold in French supermarkets. They are
> short, stubby, knobbly, and the skin is considerably thicker and much
> more flavoured than the pale British supermarket cucumber. Perhaps the
> UK supermarket cucumbers are grown in greenhouses, but the French ones
> are grown outdoors, like Dad's.
I've noticed that those I get from a farm garden nearby are knobby,
whereas the usual supermarket variety are smooth and usually bigger.
erilar
the Omrud <usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
No, it needs some greens 8-)
R H Draney
>
>That is very very true. I was in a pub one lunchtime with, among others,
>a middle-aged couple[1]. He asked her to buy him a cheese sandwich while
>he went to speak to someone else on a business matter. He returned and
>started eating his sandwich. He had great difficulty. It was grated
>cheese between two slices of bread. There was no butter, margarine or
>other spread to act as an adhesive. He became increasingly frustrated
>and bad tempered as shreds of cheese fell like yellow snow from the
>sandwich. The more annoyed he became the broader became the grin on his
>lady friend's face. As the man had at times annoyed most people who knew
>him, many onlookers also developed happy smiles.
Sounds like my stepfather...he insisted that crisp (as opposed to "soft") tacos
were inedible because he couldn't eat one without it shattering to pieces in his
grasp....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
erilar
Roland Hutchinson <my.sp...@verizon.net> wrote:
> One notes from Leftpondia that all our British correspondents have
> mentioned the presence of butter in such a way as to suggest that its
> presence was unremarkable -- that, indeed, buttering the bread is the
> normal, expected, default procedure when making any kind of sandwich.
>
> One further notes that this a a cultural, rather than a linguistic,
> pondian difference, inasmuch as sandwiches made with butter are known in
> the USA, but are not in any way considered normative.
I don't recall ever being offered a butterless sandwith at home, but
encountered sandwiches made with distateful slimy stuff instead in other
places. I could never understand why people put "salad dressing" in a
sandwich. This lack of understanding on my part has lasted almost 3/4
century(I say "almost" because I don't recall anyone trying to trick me
into eating one before I was 5 or so)
erilar
<8089676a-68cd-454c...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>,
Arcadian Rises <Arcadi...@aol.com> wrote:
> What about peanut butter sandwiches? [Yuck!]
You are yucking one of my favorite sandwiches! Of course, as I've
gotten older I've gotten pickier about my peanut butter: it must have no
ingredients but peanuts and salt.
What I've never understood is why anyone would put jelly in the same
sandwich with peanut butter, but I suspect people who do that generally
use cheap white bread. 8-)
Jerry Friedman
> Skitt wrote:
> > LFS wrote:
> >> Upthread Don refers to open-faced cucumber sandwiches, something I
> >> have never seen.
>
> > In my childhood, in Latvia, all sandwiches were open-faced, including
> > the cucumber ones. Let's see -- there were also just butter sandwiches,
>
> Eek. I can't grok the idea of a "butter sandwich".
But it was open-faced. As far as I can tell, an open-faced butter
sandwich is a slice of bread and butter (and Skitt's mention of a
buttered piece of cheese is just a distraction).
--
Jerry Friedman
erilar
Wood Avens <wood...@askjennison.com> wrote:
> Is there a default lubricant or a default water-impermeable layer in
> US sandwiches? Mayo seems common.
This is the slimy stuff I dissed up-thread. I've never understood why
people use it in a sandwich.
Mike Lyle
Those slicers are now pretty routine in Brit kitchens. I got my first
one as a free gift with some Jarlsberg. You can adjust the thickness
with only a little practice, but to shave Parmesan you're better off
using a vegetable peeler.
--
Mike.
erilar
the Omrud <usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
> What about a jam or honey sandwich? The advantage of butter is that it
> goes with both sweet and (BrE) savoury fillings.
With good dark bread, honey alone is delicious, but also good with
butter.
>
> When I was very small, we were occasionally given brown sugar sandwiches
> by one of my grannies. The mixture of sugar and butter is delicious, as
> anybody who has made a cake can testify. And the granulated brown sugar
> was satisfyingly crunchy.
I don't recall where I've had that combination, but I know I've eaten it
and liked it.
erilar
<5b49f90c-cb6e-4f63...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
Jerry Friedman <jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Raisin toast with butter, brown sugar, and cinnamon in my smaller
> days. Could we have had a shaker-top jar with "cinnamon sugar" in it?
Oh, it's still good. And a shaker-top jar with cinnamon sugar used to
be a common item.
Garrett Wollman
Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>As I'm sure you know, but to clarify, "Jelly" only refers to very
>specific class of such products in the US, those made from strained
>juices and high levels of pectin. Grape is typical, but apple and
>others are available.
Many others, in fact. Sitting here on my desk are three jars of
jelly, made from "wild juneberry", "wild cranberry", and "wild plum"
juices, respectively. (Brought back from a recent trip to Minnesota
along with a few pounds of wild rice.)
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Mike Lyle
> Cheryl wrote:
>> Wood Avens wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 15:53:58 GMT, the Omrud
>>> <usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> When I was very small, we were occasionally given brown sugar
>>>> sandwiches by one of my grannies. The mixture of sugar and butter
>>>> is delicious, as anybody who has made a cake can testify. And the
>>>> granulated brown sugar was satisfyingly crunchy.
>>>
>>> Visually exciting as well as deliciously crunchy.
>>>
>>> When we were small, we weren't allowed jam or honey or Marmite on
>>> our first slice of bread: it had to be butter only. We were
>>> allowed jam as well as butter on the second and subsequent slices.
>>> In retrospect, I can't quite see why, since I can't imagine that
>>> butter was cheaper, especially since all the jam in the household
>>> had been made at home. But that's how it was.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe it was a variation on the idea that you have to eat the
>> essentials before you can eat any treats.
>
> It was rule invented by Alfred Ayres in 1881.
Was it really? I was going to say something about "either butter or jam
but not both" being a very Victorian thing, but couldn't summon up c&v.
I half-remember it along with something about children either wearing
boots or being permanently barefoot. Am I conflating?
--
Mike.
James Hogg
Maybe *I'm* conflating this with another thread, the one about
healthy/healthful.
--
James
Mike Lyle
> Mike Page wrote:
>> the Omrud wrote:
[...]
>>>
>>> There was somebody on the radio a week ago complaining that much of
>>> what is sold as watercress is grown in fields, and should therefore
>>> be labelled landcress. He said he could tell the difference.
>>>
>> Did they know what they were talking about? I thought the Hampshire
>> watercress beds were the source of nearly all the watercress sold in
>> the UK.
>
> I believe so -
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/items/06/2009_40_wed.shtml
They're typically owned by a firm whose artics one sees on the roads:
Vitacress. I think they grow a lot of other salad crops, too.
But they say you can grow watercress in soil if you water reasonably
well. It probably would taste a bit different from the water-borne kind.
Land cress (often called "American land cress") is another kind
altogether: very good, very easy to grow, and self-seeds for ever if
you're as careless a gardener as I am.
--
Mike.
Garrett Wollman
erilar <dra...@chibardun.net.invalid> wrote:
>In article <9prqf5t08rpd6mi2v...@4ax.com>,
> Wood Avens <wood...@askjennison.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there a default lubricant or a default water-impermeable layer in
>> US sandwiches? Mayo seems common.
>
>This is the slimy stuff I dissed up-thread. I've never understood why
>people use it in a sandwich.
Because they like it (and probably don't find it "slimy", either).
Peter Moylan
> I actually find you can get better shavings of cheese with a potato
> peeler.
Thanks for that hint. I'll try it the next time I want to slice cheese.
I used to have a couple of excellent cheese slicers, but the wire - it
looked like fine piano wire - kept breaking, and I had trouble finding
replacements.
> To return to the subject, I don't think I've ever had a cucumber
> sandwich, but I frequently put thin slices of cucumber in ham or soft
> cheese sandwiches.
My usual lunch is a wrap, with a variety of ingredients, and cucumber is
one of the ingredients. (Complete list: avocado, ham, tomato, brie,
cucumber, lettuce.)
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Default User
> In article <7m5knfF...@mid.individual.net>,
> Default User <defaul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > As I'm sure you know, but to clarify, "Jelly" only refers to very
> > specific class of such products in the US, those made from strained
> > juices and high levels of pectin. Grape is typical, but apple and
> > others are available.
>
> Many others, in fact. Sitting here on my desk are three jars of
> jelly, made from "wild juneberry", "wild cranberry", and "wild plum"
> juices, respectively. (Brought back from a recent trip to Minnesota
> along with a few pounds of wild rice.)
I wasn't familiar with "juneberry". Looks like it's another name for
serviceberry, which I've heard of but not tasted.
<http://www.whatamieating.com/juneberry.html>
Sounds tasty.
Brian
--
Day 284 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
tony cooper
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>Apparently one can also shave cheese, which I find rather an odd notion.
>It seems to be only parmesan that gets shaved, though.
To address this, with a nod to another thread, my wife grates cheese
when she makes and serves chili. The shavings, and chopped raw onion,
are sprinkled on top of the chili.
I do recognize a difference between "grates" and "shaves". She pulls
the cheese across a grater. Cheese is shaved with a wire cheese
cutter. However, I can't see "gratings" as what is produced by the
grater, so I've used "shavings".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
tony cooper
<3-no...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>I have one - which I refer to as a cheese-parer for just that reason.
>It's strangely shaped thing that can also be used as a handy cake
>server.
Also here. A triangular blade with a slot at the wide end that has a
sharp edge.
>To return to the subject, I don't think I've ever had a cucumber
>sandwich, but I frequently put thin slices of cucumber in ham or soft
>cheese sandwiches.
"In", not "on"? We put things on a sandwich and eat the sandwich with
the things in it. How very complex is English usage.
Peter Moylan
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 13:04:46 +0000, Wood Avens wrote:
>> It now occurs to me that the sort of cucumbers we usually get in the Uk,
>> and from which we make sandwiches, aren't the same as the regular US
>> ones. Ours are longer (roughly twice as long) and more ridged. The
>> Google images page for "cucumber" http://tinyurl.com/yc34zw6 shows
>> mainly the US sort, but the standard Brit variety can be seen in the
>> left-most picture in the second row. Note the characteristic thin
>> proximal section.
>>
>> I wouldn't swear to it, but my impression is that these have a slightly
>> more cucumberish flavour than the US kind.
>
> The UK kind is occasionally encountered in the US, sold as "English
> cucumber".
Sold in Australia as "continental cucumber". That's one of three types
commonly available in my area. Unqualified "cucumber" looks like the
American kind, and "Lebanese cucumber" has a rougher skin. The
difference in taste is not sufficient to make a difference to me.
James Hogg
Household usage hint:
If you first put the two slices of bread together and then slide the
filling in between them, you can use the preposition "in". If you start
with just one slice of bread and add the filling before topping it with
another slice of bread, use "on".
--
James
tony cooper
<jerry_f...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Nov 13, 8:53�am, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>I sometimes have jam (=AmE "jelly") or honey on plain bread, which
>works fine. Of course, in America people really are far more likely
>to have peanut butter and jelly or honey sandwiches.
Or, in my case, peanut butter and honey. Open face, though. I put
butter on the bread before adding peanut butter. Then the honey.
>Raisin toast with butter, brown sugar, and cinnamon in my smaller
>days. Could we have had a shaker-top jar with "cinnamon sugar" in it?
We do. A cut glass (well, pressed glass) with a silver (plate) top
with larger holes than a salt shaker.
I don't cook, but I can do toast. When the grandchildren are over, and
I'm left to watch them, cinnamon toast has become a favorite with
them.
tony cooper
wrote:
>Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
>> I sometimes have jam (=AmE "jelly")
>
>As I'm sure you know, but to clarify, "Jelly" only refers to very
>specific class of such products in the US, those made from strained
>juices and high levels of pectin. Grape is typical, but apple and
>others are available. The product achieves a rather solid form, and has
>a degree of transparency.
>
><http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RHyZonXPXwQ/Rc-t-mvUQMI/AAAAAAAAAOE/_Wg3XAc45
>tA/s400/grape-jelly2.jpg>
>
>
>Similar things made from crushed or pureed fruit are called "jam", or
>"preserves" when large pieces or whole fruits are included.
And then there's apple butter. There's always a jar of that around
here.
tony cooper
wrote:
>Sounds like my stepfather...he insisted that crisp (as opposed to "soft") tacos
>were inedible because he couldn't eat one without it shattering to pieces in his
>grasp....r
Taco Bell has a thing called a "Double Decker". A hard taco with
filling and a soft taco on the outside. Neat to eat, and crunchy.
tony cooper
wrote:
>In my childhood, in Latvia, all sandwiches were open-faced,
If that doesn't summon Fontana, I don't know what will.
Jerry Friedman
> BrE filted:
>
>
>
> >That is very very true. I was in a pub one lunchtime with, among others,
> >a middle-aged couple[1]. He asked her to buy him a cheese sandwich while
> >he went to speak to someone else on a business matter. He returned and
> >started eating his sandwich. He had great difficulty. It was grated
> >cheese between two slices of bread. There was no butter, margarine or
> >other spread to act as an adhesive. He became increasingly frustrated
> >and bad tempered as shreds of cheese fell like yellow snow from the
> >sandwich. The more annoyed he became the broader became the grin on his
> >lady friend's face. As the man had at times annoyed most people who knew
> >him, many onlookers also developed happy smiles.
>
> Sounds like my stepfather...he insisted that crisp (as opposed to "soft") tacos
> were inedible because he couldn't eat one without it shattering to pieces in his
> grasp....r
He was exaggerating. I can eat crisp "tacos" if I'm really hungry.
--
Jerry Friedman
tony cooper
<la...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> wrote:
>Watercress should not be confused with cress
I didn't know that. I guess, then, I don't know what cress is.
>, though, the canonical
>ingredient of egg
That's egg salad, not just egg, isn't it? Hard boiled eggs mashed up
and mixed with mayo and maybe something else?
>and cress sandwiches, another dainty afternoon tea
>delicacy. One might also have tinned salmon and cress sandwiches.
tony cooper
<usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>There was somebody on the radio a week ago complaining that much of what
>is sold as watercress is grown in fields, and should therefore be
>labelled landcress. He said he could tell the difference.
The father of a girl my daughter went to school with has watercress
farms here and in Pennsylvania. He's the third generation to make a
(very good) living raising watercress. In water, by the way.
Mike Lyle
> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:02:13 -0800, "Skitt" <ski...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> In my childhood, in Latvia, all sandwiches were open-faced,
>
> If that doesn't summon Fontana, I don't know what will.
The only genuine pizza is made in Stow-on-the-Wold.
--
Mike.
tony cooper
After posting the above, I checked to see if there might be a web hit
on this. And there was:
http://www.bwqualitygrowers.com/press/press_6.htm
I was wrong. The father is the fourth generation. The fifth
generation - Steven - is now in the business. Steven was a couple of
years behind my daughter. According to this, B&W is the largest
single grower of watercress in the world.
John Varela
<my.sp...@verizon.net> wrote:
> If you are ordering a sandwich at a sandwich counter, the counter person
> will generally ask before putting anything on the bread. The
> conversation often might go (with me): "Mayo?" "No mayo. Butter,
> please."
Like the man said, the secret of New Orleans cooking is triple
grease. Fry the oysters, then slather both butter and mayonnaise on
the bread (baguette sliced lengthwise).
--
John Varela
Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
James Silverton
>> Not being a UK RR, I've always attributed such British
>> gastronomic-time-wasters to the remnants of the Victorian
>> stiff-upper lip and thin-red line. While a cucumber sandwich
>> is barely palatable, I cannot understand how anything other
>> than sadomasochism can be the source of watercress
>> sandwiches.
> But watercress and egg salad does sound tasty.
It brings back childhood memories. I think we used to call them "egg and
cress" sandwiches and I think the egg was scrambled.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
R H Draney
>
>Roland Hutchinson wrote:
>>
>> The UK kind is occasionally encountered in the US, sold as "English
>> cucumber".
>
>Sold in Australia as "continental cucumber". That's one of three types
>commonly available in my area. Unqualified "cucumber" looks like the
>American kind, and "Lebanese cucumber" has a rougher skin. The
>difference in taste is not sufficient to make a difference to me.
I reckon "Australian cucumber" would have a pouch....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
John Varela
wrote:
> Sounds like my stepfather...he insisted that crisp (as opposed to "soft") tacos
> were inedible because he couldn't eat one without it shattering to pieces in his
> grasp....r
That only occurs with pre-made taco shells. If it's a decent
kitchen that starts with soft tortillas and fries them to order that
won't happen.
tsuidf
>
> I suspect that you will find very few cucumber sandwich eaters north of
> Birmingham. And it seems to me that the very best thing about a
> cucumber sandwich would be the taste of butter and ground black pepper,
> which is why white bread is used, so as not to drown the flavour.
We ate the when living in the Fylde... not often, but I liked them
very much as a child, although cress (not a common Leftpondian
sandwich I don't think) was even nicer.
Now we only have them when we have a proper afternoon tea for guests.
But we definitely have them.
Which reminds me, must bake scones tomorrow.
Good night from Brussels,
Stephanie (and Chris, sandwich maker extraordinaire)
tsuidf
>
> The ones I have been served by anglophile relatives involved finely minced
> cucumber (sans any green part) in a cream cheese (or similar) paste ---
> maybe a little dill weed. They were very bland (think English cuisine here)
> on crust-deprived white bread cut twice on the diagonals. From that I
> improvised versions of my own involving quite a lot of fresh ground black
> pepper and a hint of garlic which were really quite good.
No, no, no, no! The cucumber is very thinly sliced, not minced, and
there's certainly no cream cheese or any other paste involved. For
full details see Gary Rhodes on classic English food.
Which isn't bland.
But we've discussed that a million or so times before.
The garlic clearly belongs in some other dish.
cheers,
Stephanie
in but not of Brussels
Pat Durkin
news:hdkafq$o5k$1...@news.albasani.net...
> LFS wrote:
>
>> My mum complained often about the smoothness of the modern
>> supermarket
>> cucumber, insisting that they didn't taste as good as knobbly ones.
>> She used to make a delicious cucumber salad with a dressing of
>> acetic
>> acid and caster sugar.
>>
>> Upthread Don refers to open-faced cucumber sandwiches, something I
>> have never seen.
>
> In my childhood, in Latvia, all sandwiches were open-faced,
> butter sandwiches, butter-and-cheese sandwiches, bacon-fat
> sandwiches, sour cream sandwiches, butter-and-sugar sandwiches,
> butter-and-salamisandwiches, butter-and-bologna sandwiches, and
> others that I don't remember. They were usually on rye or
> sweet-sour bread. White bread was for Sundays (sometimes).
>
> Sweet-sour bread:
> http://www.arn.lv/firmlogo/7551_small.jpg
>
> Rye bread:
> http://www.lielezers.lv/foto/rudzu_rupjmaize.png
> --
In parts of Wisconsin, Norwegian-Americans serve many such open-face
sandwiches. Cream cheese and smoked herring on rye, for example. I
suppose the entire Scandinavian region in Europe serves them a lot.
"Filling" them is an art, and displaying them on a smorgasbord is a
feature of many church suppers (Gotta eat something with that
lutefisk.)
As children, in lieu of ketchup on buttered bread, or mustard, or
mayonnaise (likewise), we found "sugar sandwiches" delicious. One
slice of bread at a time, please. We rolled them up quick to keep the
sugar on the buttered bread. Leftover pancakes could also be buttered
and sugared and rolled up to take to school for lunch.
Nowadays, I enjoy a radish sandwich, open-faced, with butter. But I
can't see a problem with a cucumber sandwich, ditto. By the way, we
sometimes see 18" cucumbers wrapped individually in plastic, sold as
"burpless" (seedless, I think). I don't have a digestive problem with
seeds, so don't pay the price, don't know the taste.
tsuidf
> I think I can, too. True watercress has a far more peppery taste than
> much of the stuff that is currently available. Most supermarket
> watercress is very disappointing.
Like most supermarket coriander over here. It tastes like imitation
parsley at best. I keep asking around for proper coriander seeds so I
can actually taste the stuff in Chinese and Mexican and Indian
dishes. No luck so far.
best from Brussels,
Stephanie