underwear = underpants?
Joseph C Fineman
In my dialect "underwear" is a mass noun denoting all clothing that is
not normally exposed in public: underpants, undershirts, brassieres,
and other feminine arcana. Recently, however, I have seen it used as
a synonym (or euphemism?) for men's underpants -- e.g. "walking around
in our underwear" where the reader is clearly not meant to imagine
clothed torsos, and the word is even used with plural verbs &
pronouns. Who does this, and why?
--
Joe Fineman j...@world.std.com
495 Pleasant St., #1 (617) 324-6899
Malden, MA 02148
R.
In article <DsLL6...@world.std.com> j...@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman) writes:
>From: j...@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman)
>Subject: underwear = underpants?
>Summary: Query about an odd usage
>Keywords: underwear, dialect
>Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:32:34 GMT
>In my dialect "underwear" is a mass noun denoting all clothing that is
>not normally exposed in public: underpants, undershirts, brassieres,
>and other feminine arcana. Recently, however, I have seen it used as
>a synonym (or euphemism?) for men's underpants -- (Snip)
How about the word "gautch" (pronounced "gawch") That was the standard slang
word for underwear (pants) when I was growing up. After much travel, I have
come to believe that it is particularly a Canadian word and may be particular
just to the Prairie Provinces.
Anybody else know this word?
Polar
On Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:32:34 GMT, j...@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman)
wrote:
>In my dialect "underwear" is a mass noun denoting all clothing that is
>not normally exposed in public: underpants, undershirts, brassieres,
>and other feminine arcana. Recently, however, I have seen it used as
>a synonym (or euphemism?) for men's underpants -- e.g. "walking around
>in our underwear" where the reader is clearly not meant to imagine
>clothed torsos, and the word is even used with plural verbs &
>pronouns. Who does this, and why?
People who drink "lite" beer and eat Cheetos?
Polar
Max Crittenden
In article <DsLL6...@world.std.com>, j...@world.std.com (Joseph C
Fineman) wrote:
> ... I have seen ["underwear"] used as
> a synonym (or euphemism?) for men's underpants -- e.g. "walking around
> in our underwear" where the reader is clearly not meant to imagine
> clothed torsos, and the word is even used with plural verbs &
> pronouns. Who does this, and why?
Well I might, because underpants are the only underwear I wear.
So for me the two are essentially synonymous, except when I start
thinking about women's underwear. Hmmmmm.
Max Crittenden
Menlo Park, California Autoclaving turns this line brown.
Polar
On Thu, 6 Jun 1996 21:32:34 GMT, j...@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman)
wrote:
>In my dialect "underwear" is a mass noun denoting all clothing that is
>not normally exposed in public: underpants, undershirts, brassieres,
>and other feminine arcana. Recently, however, I have seen it used as
>a synonym (or euphemism?) for men's underpants -- e.g. "walking around
>in our underwear" where the reader is clearly not meant to imagine
>clothed torsos, and the word is even used with plural verbs &
>pronouns. Who does this, and why?
People who drink "lite" beer and eat Cheetos?
Polar
Markus Laker
j...@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman) wrote:
> In my dialect "underwear" is a mass noun denoting all clothing that is
> not normally exposed in public: underpants, undershirts, brassieres,
> and other feminine arcana. Recently, however, I have seen it used as
> a synonym (or euphemism?) for men's underpants -- e.g. "walking around
> in our underwear" where the reader is clearly not meant to imagine
> clothed torsos, and the word is even used with plural verbs &
> pronouns. Who does this, and why?
In Brit, or at least my dialect of it, men have underwear as well. It
includes pants (underpants, for Americans), vests and socks. If I'm walking
around in my underwear, that usually means pants *and* socks. (There: the
whole of a.u.e now knows I don't wear a vest. Thrilling.) If I mean just
pants, that's what I'll say.
--
Markus Laker.
Joseph C Fineman
P.S. After posting this, I heard someone on the street say "...in my
underwear and T-shirt".
Lee Lester
NMot a great revelation but a brief glimpse of the situation in Britain:
Both men and women wear underwear, or undies, and always have done
without any sexual discrimination.
John Davies
lee.l...@guildnet.org (Lee Lester) wrote:
Only partly right. Undies are exclusively female.
The vocabulary of underwear, and the transatlantic differences
therein, is probably ripe for discussion here, if not for a Ph.D
dissertation. Some UK examples to start the ball rolling:
Tights, not pantyhose
Knickers - female mostly, but "Don't get your knickers in a twist"
applies to both sexes. Probably the preferred word nowadays for female
wear, it has gone through two transformations in my lifetime, from
standard to mildly comic to standard again.
Pants - now usually male underwear. But "short pants" still
outerwear, worn by small boys. "Panties" exclusively female
underwear. "Trousers" the standard for US "pants", but "seat of the
pants" implies outerwear.
A few curiosities:
Keks - northern slang for trousers
Combs (pronounced "comms", short for "combinations") - still referred
to jocularly, especially as in "red flannel combs" - a one-piece
garment with curious arrangements for relieving oneself.
Passion killers - large baggy female garments, also known as
Directoire knickers.
I hope no-one finds this too inflammatory. Anyone's breath coming in
short pants?
John Davies
Truly Donovan
John Davies wrote:
>
> Knickers - female mostly, but "Don't get your knickers in a twist"
> applies to both sexes. Probably the preferred word nowadays for female
> wear, it has gone through two transformations in my lifetime, from
> standard to mildly comic to standard again.
In the US, "knickers" refers to pants that came to just below the knee
and were gathered into some sort of band affair at the bottom, worn by
schoolboys in the first half of the century. My older brothers wore
them, my younger brother never did -- a difference of 7 years.
They are not used to refer to any item of female attire (except as
those might involve pants that come to just below the knee and are
gathered into a band, which occurs every 15 years or so in the fashion
lineup). HOWEVER, Americans do use the expression "don't get your
knickers in a twist" to demonstrate how non-culture-centric we are.
Truly Donovan
Roy Lakin
In article <31E1FC...@lunemere.com>,
Truly Donovan <tr...@lunemere.com> wrote:
[...]
>lineup). HOWEVER, Americans do use the expression "don't get your
>knickers in a twist" to demonstrate how non-culture-centric we are.
We (in the UK) sometimes vary this by using "don't get your tights in a
tangle" but from another contribution that won't travel.
Nobody mention "bloomers" ?
Roy
Colin Fine
In article <96070805...@guildnet.org>, Lee Lester
<lee.l...@guildnet.org> writes
>NMot a great revelation but a brief glimpse of the situation in Britain:
>Both men and women wear underwear, or undies, and always have done
>without any sexual discrimination.
Yes, but that term includes all underclothes - pants, vests, knickers,
bras...
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Colin Fine 66 High Ash, Shipley, W Yorks. BD18 1NE, UK |
| Tel: 01274 592696 e-mail: co...@kindness.demon.co.uk |
| "Losing is a state of mind, not a fact of life." -K.B.Brown |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
John Soward Bayne
The English call the knickers (golfer Payne Stewart) attire
"plus-fours." Other underwear differences are
suspenders--women only (US garters). Men wear braces.
vest--man's undershirt. article in 3-piece suit is a waistcoat.
Aaron J. Dinkin
> John Davies wrote:
> >
> > Knickers - female mostly, but "Don't get your knickers in a twist"
> > applies to both sexes. Probably the preferred word nowadays for female
> > wear, it has gone through two transformations in my lifetime, from
> > standard to mildly comic to standard again.
>
> In the US, "knickers" refers to pants that came to just below the knee
> and were gathered into some sort of band affair at the bottom, worn by
> schoolboys in the first half of the century. My older brothers wore
> them, my younger brother never did -- a difference of 7 years.
Also worn by fencers to this day. What do BrE speakers call the
trouser-like component of fencing attire?
帰aron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Aaron J. Dinkin
In article <4rto4t$k...@nrtphc11.bnr.ca>, John Soward Bayne
<John_...@nt.com> wrote:
> The English call the knickers (golfer Payne Stewart) attire
> "plus-fours." Other underwear differences are
>
> suspenders--women only (US garters). Men wear braces.
In the US, "garters" are a genus of harmless striped snakes.
Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting
In article <4rseh3$1...@raffles.technet.sg>, jda...@britcoun.org.sg
(John Davies) writes:
> Knickers - female mostly, but "Don't get your knickers in a twist"
> applies to both sexes. Probably the preferred word nowadays for female
> wear, it has gone through two transformations in my lifetime, from
> standard to mildly comic to standard again.
In the U.S., "knickers" are outerwear, specifically the baggy pants ending just
below the knee worn (formerly) by golfers.
> Pants - now usually male underwear. But "short pants" still
> outerwear, worn by small boys. "Panties" exclusively female
> underwear. "Trousers" the standard for US "pants", but "seat of the
> pants" implies outerwear.
"Pants" would usually be outerwear in the U.S. The most common term for the
male underwear is "shorts", although, depending on context, "shorts" can also
be outerwear for men and for women. "Briefs" is not uncommon, especially in
the trade. "Underpants" was used when I was a child, but I don't hear it much
now. "Panties" is used as in the U.K.
Gary Williams
WILL...@AHECAS.AHEC.EDU
Joseph C Fineman
jda...@britcoun.org.sg (John Davies) writes:
>Knickers - female mostly, but "Don't get your knickers in a twist"
>applies to both sexes. Probably the preferred word nowadays for female
>wear, it has gone through two transformations in my lifetime, from
>standard to mildly comic to standard again.
There was once a young lady of Tottenham,
Whose manners -- good Lord, she'd forgotten 'em!
At tea at the vicar's
She took off her knickers
Because, she explained, she felt hot in 'em.
Frank Cole
In article <4rto4t$k...@nrtphc11.bnr.ca>
John_...@nt.com "John Soward Bayne" writes:
> The English call the knickers (golfer Payne Stewart) attire
> "plus-fours." ...
Yes, Stewart plus-fours, but the early 20th cent. boys knickers
referred to earlier were what we would call plus-twos. Plus-fours
are fuller and the lower visible fold is well below the gripping
band. Plus-twos, not seen now, were less full and the lower part
was not really a well-defined fold; it just sort of became the small
belt-like gripper just below the knee.
> ... Other underwear differences are suspenders--women only (US garters).
Well, not so sure. The wife used a "garter belt", which had four of
those suspended "fasteners" (yes, that's it, the fasteners). I do not
recall reference to "garter" (we're talking heavy serious US here).
I wore "garters", or a pair of garters, to hold up my socks -- the
elastic band snapped on above the calf muscle and had a single
suspended fastener (inside leg) to grip the top edge of the sock --
same fastener design as on women's garter belt.
> ... Men wear braces.
US, suspenders, of course. Braces were on children's teeth.
> vest--man's undershirt. article in 3-piece suit is a waistcoat.
^^^^^^^^^
US, vest, of course. How do the English actually pronounce
"waistcoat" (this could save me from hollering through the back
garden hedge to ask Roger)? Is it "west-cut", or what?
--
Frank Cole (UK resident "Merkin" -- a new one on me ... oops)
Dunia Rosenthal
j...@world.std.com (Joseph C Fineman) wrote:
>jda...@britcoun.org.sg (John Davies) writes:
>>Knickers - female mostly, but "Don't get your knickers in a twist"
>>applies to both sexes. Probably the preferred word nowadays for female
>>wear, it has gone through two transformations in my lifetime, from
>>standard to mildly comic to standard again.
>There was once a young lady of Tottenham,
>Whose manners -- good Lord, she'd forgotten 'em!
> At tea at the vicar's
> She took off her knickers
>Because, she explained, she felt hot in 'em.
>--
What do the British call those pants that extend just below the knee
and are held there by an elastic band, usually worn for cross-country
skiing?
dunia
John Nurick
Frank Cole <fr...@poco.demon.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>How do the English actually pronounce
>"waistcoat" (this could save me from hollering through the back
>garden hedge to ask Roger)? Is it "west-cut", or what?
Old-fashioned: /'wEsk@t/ (or /'veskIt/ if you're Sam Weller)
More common nowadays, I think: /'weIs?koUt/, /'weIs?k@t/, /'weIsk@t/,
etc.
--
John Nurick
j.nu...@dial.pipex.com
Bob Cunningham
will...@ahecas.ahec.edu (Gary Williams, Business Services
Accounting) wrote:
[...]
>"Pants" would usually be outerwear in the U.S. The most common term for the
>male underwear is "shorts", although, depending on context, "shorts" can also
>be outerwear for men and for women. "Briefs" is not uncommon, especially in
>the trade. "Underpants" was used when I was a child, but I don't hear it much
>now. "Panties" is used as in the U.K.
I feel an irresistible compulsion to report that there is a
marvelous DOS editor called "Brief" that was originally a product of a
software company called "Underware". No, really!
Chris Malcolm
>What do the British call those pants that extend just below the knee
>and are held there by an elastic band, usually worn for cross-country
>skiing?
Breeches, but being snobs, we prefer them to be fastened by buttons or
buckles, regarding the wearing of elasticated breeches as symptomatic of
being foreign or of low social origins. Elastic has a limited life, and
thus is only appropriate for the kind of cheap garments that are
expected to fall to bits before the owner. We also regard cross-country
skiing as a lower-class sport, preferring to wear our breeches for the
gentleman's sports of hill-walking, stalking, or mountaineering.
Plus-fours are breeches with an extra four inches added to the length,
but still fastened below the knee, thus adding the characteristic floppy
fold over the knee. Plus-twos are these days more common than
plus-fours, but are often referred to by the illiterate as plus-fours.
You probably wouldn't find this in a Chambers dictionary :-)
--
Chris Malcolm c...@aifh.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 650 3085
Department of Artificial Intelligence, Edinburgh University
5 Forrest Hill, Edinburgh, EH1 2QL, UK DoD #205
"The mind reigns, but does not govern" Paul Valery
Donnah Dunthorn
Truly Donovan (tr...@lunemere.com) wrote:
: lineup). HOWEVER, Americans do use the expression "don't get your
: knickers in a twist" to demonstrate how non-culture-centric we are.
I haven't heard that one here, Truly. I've heard "Don't get your
panties in a bunch."
Is the team the New York Knicks still around?
D.
Mike Barnes
The dancing digits of "Aaron J. Dinkin" <r...@usa1.com> created this
pronouncement in alt.usage.english...
>In article <31E1FC...@lunemere.com>, Truly Donovan
><tr...@lunemere.com> wrote:
>
>> John Davies wrote:
>> >
>> > applies to both sexes. Probably the preferred word nowadays for female
>> > wear, it has gone through two transformations in my lifetime, from
>> > standard to mildly comic to standard again.
>>
>> and were gathered into some sort of band affair at the bottom, worn by
>> schoolboys in the first half of the century. My older brothers wore
>> them, my younger brother never did -- a difference of 7 years.
>
>Also worn by fencers to this day. What do BrE speakers call the
>trouser-like component of fencing attire?
When I fenced [mumble]ty years ago, they were "breeches", and I imagine
they still are. The same word is also used for now-unfashionable hiking
trousers of similar design.
Regards, Mike.
--
Mike Barnes, Stockport, England.
This week's hot tips for the lottery: 12, 14, 23, 32, 38, 34.
JAy
Of course there is the uniquely Canadian "gautch" (pronounced gawtch) or
"gautchies".
Lauria Blackwell
What about ginch, gautch (or should it be spelt gotch?) and the
variations on those words? Are these regionalisms? What is
their origin? How should I spell gawtch?
Around here (Saskatchewan, Canada), gautch (gauch?) is a fairly
commonly understood, perhaps slightly vulgar, word for underwear.
It is usually used for male underpants, but can also stand
for panties and even be extended to bras etc. Ginch is sort of
an extension of this as well as gotchies, ginchies, ginchy-gotchies,
and similar words.
---------------------------------------------------
/ _ o _ Lauria Blackwell
/_ (_/ /_/ /~ / (_/ (Lau...@erato.usask.ca)
---------------------------------------------------
Markus Laker
exw...@ix.netcom.com (Bob Cunningham):
> I feel an irresistible compulsion to report that there is a
> marvelous DOS editor called "Brief" that was originally a product of a
> software company called "Underware". No, really!
Indeed, I used it until very recently for all sorts of editing tasks
that needed something more complicated than a simple text editor but
weren't worth writing a program for. But the worst has happened: I
can't get it to run under Windows 95, so I'll have to investigate one of
the several Brief clones for Windows. That, or become a lot more fluent
in Perl.
[Nothing to do with a.u.e -- hence mailed only.]
All the best,
--
Markus Laker.
Frank Cole
In article <31e34540...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
exw...@ix.netcom.com "Bob Cunningham" writes:
<snip>
> I feel an irresistible compulsion to report that there is a
> marvelous DOS editor called "Brief" that was originally a product of a
> software company called "Underware". No, really!
I believe it. While working for Batten, Barton, Durston, & Osborne (or
was it Touche, Niven, Bailey, & Smart -- no - it was Daniel, Mann,
Johnson, & Mendenhall in LA), and to clearly distinguish between
software which was visible/not-visible to the client, we called the
latter underware -- and it became transparent underware. Yo!
--
Frank Cole
Patrick Gillard
In article <4rseh3$1...@raffles.technet.sg>, John Davies
<jda...@britcoun.org.sg> writes
>
<snip>
>A few curiosities:
>Keks - northern slang for trousers
>Combs (pronounced "comms", short for "combinations") - still referred
>to jocularly, especially as in "red flannel combs" - a one-piece
>garment with curious arrangements for relieving oneself.
>Passion killers - large baggy female garments, also known as
>Directoire knickers.
>
<snip>
A few more UK curiosities;
kegs - same as keks
underkegs - you can guess
trollies - same as underkegs i think, but will have to ask Mike Harding
(British folk singer)
strides - London-ish slang for trousers ( I think)
--
Patrick Gillard
J.C. Dill
Apparently On Wed, 10 Jul 1996 14:14:53 +0100, in alt.usage.english, the
And for the rather fashionable english style riding pants known as both breeches
and britches.
jc
John Nurick
Patrick Gillard <pat...@faustina.demon.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>strides - London-ish slang for trousers ( I think)
I think I've heard and used "strides" more in Australia than in
England.
One also hears "daks" in Australia; does anyone know the etymology of
this?
--
John Nurick
j.nu...@dial.pipex.com
John Nurick
jcd...@ix.netcom.com (J.C. Dill) wrote:
>And for the rather fashionable english style riding pants known as both breeches
>and britches.
In the UK, always spelt "breeches" but usually pronounced "britches".
--
John Nurick
j.nu...@dial.pipex.com
KJBlake
In article <4s02gb$9...@scotsman.ed.ac.uk>, c...@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Chris
Malcolm) writes:
>Plus-fours are breeches with an extra four inches added to the length,
>but still fastened below the knee, thus adding the characteristic floppy
>fold over the knee.
Thank you very much. I'd often wondered why they were so called, but never
took the trouble to look it up.
It seems awfully obvious, now that you explain it.
M. Murray
Aaron J. Dinkin (r...@usa1.com) wrote:
: In article <31E1FC...@lunemere.com>, Truly Donovan
: <tr...@lunemere.com> wrote:
: > John Davies wrote:
: > >
: > > Knickers - female mostly, but "Don't get your knickers in a twist"
: > > applies to both sexes. Probably the preferred word nowadays for female
: > > wear, it has gone through two transformations in my lifetime, from
: > > standard to mildly comic to standard again.
: >
: > In the US, "knickers" refers to pants that came to just below the knee
: > and were gathered into some sort of band affair at the bottom, worn by
: > schoolboys in the first half of the century. My older brothers wore
: > them, my younger brother never did -- a difference of 7 years.
: Also worn by fencers to this day. What do BrE speakers call the
: trouser-like component of fencing attire?
Fencing trousers.
--
Martin Murray :: School of Chemistry, Bristol University, BS8 1TS, England
Bill Fisher
In article <rdd-090796...@dmn1-49.usa1.com>, r...@usa1.com (Aaron J. Dinkin) writes:
> In article <4rto4t$k...@nrtphc11.bnr.ca>, John Soward Bayne
> <John_...@nt.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > suspenders--women only (US garters). Men wear braces.
>
> In the US, "garters" are a genus of harmless striped snakes.
>
Or people who gart to an unnecessary degree.
- billf
Markus Laker
la...@tcp.co.uk (Markus Laker):
> [Nothing to do with a.u.e -- hence mailed only.]
So what on earth is it doing here? :-(
--
Markus Laker.
Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting
In article <4s04ds$9...@viper.shadow.net>, don...@shadow.net (Donnah Dunthorn)
writes:
> Is the team the New York Knicks still around?
Yes, but, as is so often the case, the etymology is deceptive. Their full, or
at least original, name is "Knickerbockers".
Gary Williams
WILL...@AHECAS.AHEC.EDU
Jay
>What about ginch, gautch (or should it be spelt gotch?) and the
>variations on those words? Are these regionalisms? What is
>their origin? How should I spell gawtch?
>Around here (Saskatchewan, Canada), gautch (gauch?) is a fairly
>commonly understood, perhaps slightly vulgar, word for underwear.
>It is usually used for male underpants, but can also stand
>for panties and even be extended to bras etc. Ginch is sort of
>an extension of this as well as gotchies, ginchies, ginchy-gotchies,
>and similar words.
>
It was also very common in "next door" in Manitoba. I thought it was a
common term until I used it in the Maritimes and got a strange look.
Apparently it is a true Canadian Prairie expression.
What Americans call a "wedgie", we called "grabbing the gautch".
Jay
>>>> > Knickers - female mostly, but "Don't get your knickers in a twist"
>>>> > applies to both sexes.
We used to say "Don't get your shorts in a knot" Same sentiment.
Colin Fine
In article <836939...@poco.demon.co.uk>, Frank Cole
<fr...@poco.demon.co.uk> writes
>I wore "garters", or a pair of garters, to hold up my socks -- the
>elastic band snapped on above the calf muscle and had a single
>suspended fastener (inside leg) to grip the top edge of the sock --
>same fastener design as on women's garter belt.
I wore 'garters' - simple elastic rings - to hold up my socks before I
was old enough to go into long trousers (about 11 I think).
>> vest--man's undershirt. article in 3-piece suit is a waistcoat.
> ^^^^^^^^^
>US, vest, of course. How do the English actually pronounce
>"waistcoat" (this could save me from hollering through the back
>garden hedge to ask Roger)? Is it "west-cut", or what?
It is most often as written, but those who pride themselves on
historicism tend to say /'wesk@t/.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Colin Fine 66 High Ash, Shipley, W Yorks. BD18 1NE, UK |
| Tel: 01274 592696 e-mail: co...@kindness.demon.co.uk |
| "Losing is a state of mind, not a fact of life." -K.B.Brown |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Colin Fine
In article <rdd-090796...@dmn1-49.usa1.com>, "Aaron J. Dinkin"
<r...@usa1.com> writes
>In article <31E1FC...@lunemere.com>, Truly Donovan
><tr...@lunemere.com> wrote:
>
>> John Davies wrote:
>> >
>> > wear, it has gone through two transformations in my lifetime, from
>> > standard to mildly comic to standard again.
>>
>> In the US, "knickers" refers to pants that came to just below the knee
>> and were gathered into some sort of band affair at the bottom, worn by
>> schoolboys in the first half of the century. My older brothers wore
>> them, my younger brother never did -- a difference of 7 years.
>
>Also worn by fencers to this day. What do BrE speakers call the
>trouser-like component of fencing attire?
I'm not familiar with fencing attire, but what I call trousers cut and
cinched below the knee is 'breeches' /'brItSIz/.
I wear them for Morris dancing.
alan auerbach F
Ya: Brits (and Aussies) use more brand names than we do --
they Hoover (or hoover) the carpet trying to get the Biro (or biro)
stains out. Daks is a brand of trowsers.
--
Al.
Truly Donovan
Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting wrote:
>
> In article <4s04ds$9...@viper.shadow.net>, don...@shadow.net (Donnah Dunthorn)
> writes:
>
> > Is the team the New York Knicks still around?
>
> Yes, but, as is so often the case, the etymology is deceptive. Their full, or
> at least original, name is "Knickerbockers".
Who's being deceived by what here? The full, or at least original, name of the
pants is also "Knickerbockers."
Truly Donovan
Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting
In article <31E5F4...@lunemere.com>, Truly Donovan <tr...@lunemere.com>
writes:
> Who's being deceived by what here? The full, or at least original, name of
> the pants is also "Knickerbockers."
I quote only your reply, not my original comment, so as not to display my
ignorance yet again, but I confess that it was I who was deceived.
(Fortunately, so far as I know, the name of the team has never been shortened
by headline writers to `Knickers'.)
Gary Williams
WILL...@AHECAS.AHEC.EDU
Dunia Rosenthal
c...@aisb.ed.ac.uk (Chris Malcolm) wrote:
>Breeches, but being snobs, we prefer them to be fastened by buttons or
>buckles, regarding the wearing of elasticated breeches as symptomatic of
>being foreign or of low social origins. Elastic has a limited life, and
>thus is only appropriate for the kind of cheap garments that are
>expected to fall to bits before the owner. We also regard cross-country
>skiing as a lower-class sport, preferring to wear our breeches for the
>gentleman's sports of hill-walking, stalking, or mountaineering.
>You probably wouldn't find this in a Chambers dictionary :-)
The King of Norway cross-country skis, but he undoubtably buttons his
breeches. My own cross-country skiing breeches have elastic, but they
are made out of this hugely expensive hi-tech material that's
lightweight, warm, waterproof, permits air circulation, and is
designed to fall apart before the elastic wears out. My husband's
fasten with, hang onto your hat, velcro! I have to admit, light wool
would look much nicer and would work just as well as this
dacro-rayon-whatever stuff.
Chambers might add, under knickers, American usage - cheap elasticated
breeches, from the term knickerbockers.
John Davies
j.nu...@dial.pipex.com (John Nurick) wrote:
(snip)
>One also hears "daks" in Australia; does anyone know the etymology of
>this?
>--
other clothing, sold by Simpsons, a chain of gents' outfitters whose
chief shop was (is?) in Piccadilly.
The plethora of ?s in this remind me of how old I'm getting and how
long it is since I last shopped in Britain.
John Davies
Donnah Dunthorn
Gary Williams, Business Services Accounting (will...@ahecas.ahec.edu) wrote:
: In article <4s04ds$9...@viper.shadow.net>, don...@shadow.net (Donnah Dunthorn)
: writes:
: > Is the team the New York Knicks still around?
: Yes, but, as is so often the case, the etymology is deceptive. Their full, or
: at least original, name is "Knickerbockers".
Can we have the smiley debate again?