"Hate"
Mike Oliver
been floating around, but only very recently I've noticed that
some people are using the word "hate" by itself with the specific
meaning of "the emotional content of bigotry".
There was an entire article in (I believe) the New York Times Magazine
on hate, without a single suggestion that it was possible to hate
an individual, or an idea, or an occurrence.
Is this going to be a genuine change of meaning? Twenty years from
now will sentences like "I hate Johnny Thompson, he's just mean" or
"I hate my job" or "I hate it that all must die", be greeted
with blank stares?
There were plenty of substitutes for "gay"; though it's a bit of
a pity that it's no longer possible to talk of a "gay party" without
raising issues of sexual orientation, it has not really impoverished
the language much. But I really can't think of many substitutes
for "hate" in the sense of "passionate disaffection".
Donna Richoux
> For several years the phrases "hate crime" and "hate speech" have
> been floating around, but only very recently I've noticed that
> some people are using the word "hate" by itself with the specific
> meaning of "the emotional content of bigotry".
>
> There was an entire article in (I believe) the New York Times Magazine
> on hate, without a single suggestion that it was possible to hate
> an individual, or an idea, or an occurrence.
>
> Is this going to be a genuine change of meaning? Twenty years from
> now will sentences like "I hate Johnny Thompson, he's just mean" or
> "I hate my job" or "I hate it that all must die", be greeted
> with blank stares?
[snip]
It's hard to draw that conclusion without seeing some examples. Could
you maybe give us two or three sentences from the article?
In general, I do not believe that merely increasing use of a word as an
adjective drives out its use as a verb. It takes forces like shame and
fear of embarrassment to make people reluctant to use a word, I'd say.
Are you saying that people will be ashamed to reveal they hate
something?
--
Best wishes --- Donna Richoux
ra...@my-deja.com
Mike Oliver <oli...@math.ucla.edu> wrote:
> For several years the phrases "hate crime" and "hate speech" have
> been floating around, but only very recently I've noticed that
> some people are using the word "hate" by itself with the specific
> meaning of "the emotional content of bigotry".
>
> There was an entire article in (I believe) the New York Times Magazine
> on hate, without a single suggestion that it was possible to hate
> an individual, or an idea, or an occurrence.
>
> Is this going to be a genuine change of meaning? Twenty years from
> now will sentences like "I hate Johnny Thompson, he's just mean" or
> "I hate my job" or "I hate it that all must die", be greeted
> with blank stares?
>
> a pity that it's no longer possible to talk of a "gay party" without
> raising issues of sexual orientation, it has not really impoverished
> the language much. But I really can't think of many substitutes
> for "hate" in the sense of "passionate disaffection".
That depends on how much is 'many'.
I can think of:
loathe - loathsome
despise - despicable
detest - detestable
Richard (NL)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mike Oliver
ra...@my-deja.com wrote:
> That depends on how much is 'many'.
>
> I can think of:
>
> loathe - loathsome
> despise - despicable
> detest - detestable
All of these have extra baggage. "Loathe" suggests disgust, "despise"
lack of respect, and "detest" is richerche. "Hate" is the only direct,
simple word.
Mike Oliver
Donna Richoux wrote:
>
> Mike Oliver <oli...@math.ucla.edu> wrote:
>> Is this going to be a genuine change of meaning? Twenty years from
>> now will sentences like "I hate Johnny Thompson, he's just mean" or
>> "I hate my job" or "I hate it that all must die", be greeted
>> with blank stares?
> [snip]
>
> It's hard to draw that conclusion without seeing some examples. Could
> you maybe give us two or three sentences from the article?
I'm afraid I don't have the article. But the subheader or whatever you
call it (those little abstracts the editor puts at the top, or in the index)
said something like "why we will never eliminate hate, and shouldn't try".
Sounds reasonable, I thought, how can you ever eliminate a fundamental
human emotion?
Then I look at the article, and find that the author, trying to
be comprehensive, treats hate of Jews, of gays, of women (maybe,
don't recall that well), of various races/ethnicities. Not even
an *allusion* to the possibility of a meaning for the word that
has nothing to do with an identity group.
> In general, I do not believe that merely increasing use of a word as an
> adjective drives out its use as a verb.
I wasn't talking about a shift in part of speech. The change in
meaning I'm talking about is from the general to the extremely specific --
from "passionate disaffection" to "bigotry towards an identity group".
As far as I can tell the noun and the verb could potentially be equally
affected, though most of the new uses I've seen are for the noun.
> It takes forces like shame and
> fear of embarrassment to make people reluctant to use a word, I'd say.
> Are you saying that people will be ashamed to reveal they hate
> something?
Well, if "I hate..." is the same as "I'm a racist", then yeah, that
could happen.
Donna Richoux
> Donna Richoux wrote:
> > It takes forces like shame and fear of embarrassment to make people
> > reluctant to use a word, I'd say. Are you saying that people will be
> > ashamed to reveal they hate something?
>
> Well, if "I hate..." is the same as "I'm a racist", then yeah, that
> could happen.
Well, then, on the use-it-or-lose-it philosophy, let's start using
"hate" in a way we can be proud of. I hate bigotry, I hate greed, I hate
selfishness, I hate bullying, I hate false logic, I hate...
Who's to come along and say "No, you don't, either?"
(Listening for footsteps.)
--
Best --- Donna Richoux
D. Spencer Hines
--
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"There're two kinds of people in this life, my friend --- those who have
loaded guns and those who dig. You dig." --- Clint Eastwood as The Man
With No Name "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" --- Sergio Leone [1966]
K1912 <k1...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991119022102...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
| Donna, somewhere Bertrand Russell speaks of hating and the need to
hate just as
| you do, saying something to the effect that there must be hate, that
hating
| what is hateful is essential for anyone to do good work.
|
| I like a good hater.--Samuel Johnson
Anandashankar Mazumdar
tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote:
> Well, then, on the use-it-or-lose-it philosophy, let's start using
> "hate" in a way we can be proud of. I hate bigotry, I hate greed, I
> hate selfishness, I hate bullying, I hate false logic, I hate...
I hate it when I have to wear footwear other than sneakers or
sandals ... Oh, wait. You didn't really want me to go on, did you?
Ananda
Perchprism
>From: tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux)
>Date: Thu, 18 November 1999 05:25 PM EST
>Message-id: <1e1hna4.1w2j8eu1k4bh4zN%tr...@euronet.nl>
>
>Mike Oliver <oli...@math.ucla.edu> wrote:
>
>> Donna Richoux wrote:
>
>> > It takes forces like shame and fear of embarrassment to make people
>> > reluctant to use a word, I'd say. Are you saying that people will be
>> > ashamed to reveal they hate something?
>>
>> Well, if "I hate..." is the same as "I'm a racist", then yeah, that
>> could happen.
>
>"hate" in a way we can be proud of. I hate bigotry, I hate greed, I hate
>selfishness, I hate bullying, I hate false logic, I hate...
>
>
>(Listening for footsteps.)
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God,
hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
--
Perchprism
(southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia)
K1912
>Mike Oliver <oli...@math.ucla.edu> wrote:
>
>> Donna Richoux wrote:
>
>> > It takes forces like shame and fear of embarrassment to make people
>> > reluctant to use a word, I'd say. Are you saying that people will be
>> > ashamed to reveal they hate something?
>>
>> Well, if "I hate..." is the same as "I'm a racist", then yeah, that
>> could happen.
>
>Well, then, on the use-it-or-lose-it philosophy, let's start using
>"hate" in a way we can be proud of. I hate bigotry, I hate greed, I hate
>selfishness, I hate bullying, I hate false logic, I hate...
>
>Who's to come along and say "No, you don't, either?"
>
>(Listening for footsteps.)
>
James Follett
N...@ToSpam.edu "D. Spencer Hines" writes:
>By all means hate Sloth and Ignorance.
Okay -- trim your reposts, you ignorant, lazy motherfucker.
--
James Follett -- novelist http://www.davew.demon.co.uk
Perchprism
>From: ja...@marage.demon.co.uk (James Follett)
>Date: Fri, 19 November 1999 04:41 AM EST
>Message-id: <943004...@marage.demon.co.uk>
>
>In article <812ukq$1no$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>
> N...@ToSpam.edu "D. Spencer Hines" writes:
>
>>By all means hate Sloth and Ignorance.
>
>Okay -- trim your reposts, you ignorant, lazy motherfucker.
I hate it when you pussyfoot around like that. Let the guy know what you really
think.
Brian J Goggin
[...]
>Donna, somewhere Bertrand Russell speaks of hating and the need to hate just as
>you do, saying something to the effect that there must be hate, that hating
>what is hateful is essential for anyone to do good work.
>I like a good hater.--Samuel Johnson
Lewis Carroll wrote about one too, but he was Mad.
bjg
Donna Richoux
> By all means hate Sloth and Ignorance.
Well, actually, I myself have a lot of sympathy for Sloth, and quite an
unusually high tolerance for Ignorance, I believe. We're all ignorant of
a lot of stuff (What's the Tibetan word for bathtub? The Tibetans know.)
I expect we all have our own hate preferences.
D. Spencer Hines
Hmmmm, an _obscene_, ignorant, pontificating Old Man, moving deeper into
his dotage.
Caveat Lector.
--
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"There're two kinds of people in this life, my friend --- those who have
loaded guns and those who dig. You dig." --- Clint Eastwood as The Man
With No Name "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" --- Sergio Leone [1966]
James Follett <ja...@marage.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:943004...@marage.demon.co.uk...
| In article <812ukq$1no$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>
| N...@ToSpam.edu "D. Spencer Hines" writes:
|
| >By all means hate Sloth and Ignorance.
|
| Okay -- trim your reposts, you ignorant, lazy motherfucker.
|
William Lieblich
>
> Vide infra.
>
> Hmmmm, an _obscene_, ignorant, pontificating Old Man, moving deeper into
> his dotage.
>
> Caveat Lector.
> --
>
> D. Spencer Hines
Thanks for the self-portrait.
--
Bill Lieblich
D. Spencer Hines
A professional wordsmith who turns to obscenities is a poor craftsman
and a pitiful one indeed.
Simon R. Hughes
> By all means hate Sloth and Ignorance.
And wilful anti-social behaviour? Should we hate upside-down posting?
--
Simon R. Hughes -- http://sult.8m.com/
Quoting Usenet Articles in Follow-ups
http://sult.8m.com/quote.html
Simon R. Hughes
> Vide infra pro phrenetico.
Latin is dead. A Dinosaur. Didn't anyone tell you this at school?
> A professional wordsmith who turns to obscenities is a poor craftsman
> and a pitiful one indeed.
Yeah!
Consider the pitiful, rich, successful David Mamet.
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> A professional wordsmith who turns to obscenities
> is a poor craftsman and a pitiful one indeed.
That's a fuckin' crock of shit, you self-righteous scumsucker. :))
--
Reinhold ("Doc") Aman, Editor
Santa Rosa, CA 95402, USA
http://www.sonic.net/maledicta/
D. Spencer Hines
Well the World knows about our Crazy Californians. A loon in every
tree.
Here's just one of them.
There are some very fine folks in California too. Unfortunately they
are often out-shouted by the loons.
No smileys.
Fortem Posce Animum.
--
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"There're two kinds of people in this life, my friend --- those who have
loaded guns and those who dig. You dig." --- Clint Eastwood as The Man
With No Name "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" --- Sergio Leone [1966]
Reinhold (Rey) Aman <am...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:3835B5...@sonic.net...
James Follett
N...@ToSpam.edu "D. Spencer Hines" writes:
>Hmmmm, an _obscene_, ignorant, pontificating Old Man, moving deeper into
>his dotage.
Oh, I'm well into my anecdotage. As for being obscene, ignorant,
and pontificating, those are just some of perks of getting old.
Being an OAP has bought a whole wodge of other benefits: cheap meals
in restaurants; a bus pass; being excused library fines; pretty
little doxies in mini-skirts delivering meals-on-wheels; free Saga
Holidays vouchers; special crumblies mornings at B&Q DIY Essex
barns; free eye checks; free prescriptions; fuel allowance
vouchers; discretionary pension bonus payments at Christmas; a
surplus of women in my age grope. The list is gratifyingly endless.
Everyone should be allowed at least one opportunity in their life to
get old. Even clueless Outlook Express users.
One thing I dislike is the term "senior citizen"; it manages to
be patronizing and elitest at the same time. I'm an old age
pensioner; as crumbly as a leper in a wind tunnel, and let no one
forget it.
D. Spencer Hines
pensioner; as crumbly as a leper in a wind tunnel, and let no one
forget it.
--
James Follett -- novelist http://www.davew.demon.co.uk
Yes, and we should indulge your obscenities because of it?
Joseph C Fineman
>Donna, somewhere Bertrand Russell speaks of hating and the need to
>hate just as you do, saying something to the effect that there must
>be hate, that hating what is hateful is essential for anyone to do
>good work.
>I like a good hater.--Samuel Johnson
There is also "A Plea for Less Malice Toward None" by Ogden Nash:
...Learn, before it grows too late,
Fellow countrymen, to hate.
Learn to hate banana salads,
Travel movies, cowboy balalads,
Literati, early risers,
Office-holders, advertisers,
Fruit-juice cocktails, borrowed wit,
Ladies who rely on It;...
--- Joe Fineman j...@world.std.com
||: Every passion has its chastity. :||
TJ
> > One thing I dislike is the term "senior citizen"; it manages to
> > be patronizing [sic] and elitest [sic] at the same time. I'm an old age
> > pensioner; as crumbly as a leper in a wind tunnel, and let no one
> > forget it.
> >
> > --
> > James Follett -- novelist http://www.davew.demon.co.uk
I hear a horrible phrase today, from the lips of a 20 year old hired,
IMO, for a position of too much responsiblity for her level of maturity
(but, heck, I just work there): Senior Moment.
It meant she was having trouble remembering something.
I guess I'm middle aged, for despite my youthful taste in music, and
generally Gen X dressing tendencies, I felt like grabbing her and
calling her a punk.
tj
and now for a joke:
A guy who'd had a few went into a bar, and ordered a drink. The
bartender said he was sorry, he could not serve him as ties were
required in the establishment. The guy went out and hunted about in his
car, and soon returned with his jumper cables tied around his neck.
The bartender said,
"Well, that will do, but just don't start anything."
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Vide infra pro phrenetico.
Kindly stuff your showoff Latin phrases up your locative, Homunculus.
Some of us know Latin, Ancient Greek, Sanskrit, and a bit of
Indo-European, but unlike an insecure élitist such as yourself, we of
the genuine élite try not to impress the masses with phrases picked out
of a Latin primer.
> Well the World knows about our Crazy Californians.
> A loon in every tree.
First, Homunculus, I am not a Californian. Second, loons are not
tree-dwelling birds. Third, you're confusing California with Canada as
the prime habitat of loons. Fourth, you forgot the obligatory comma
after "Well."
Not bad for a know-it-all schmuck: two sentences, four fuck-ups.
> Here's just one of them.
>
> There are some very fine folks in California too. Unfortunately they
> are often out-shouted by the loons.
This is sloppy thinking: you are implying that *all* Californians shout.
And here comes D. Spencer's stupid upside-down reposting:
> Reinhold (Rey) Aman <am...@sonic.net> wrote in message
> news:3835B5...@sonic.net...
>
> | D. Spencer Hines wrote:
> |
> | > A professional wordsmith who turns to obscenities
> | > is a poor craftsman and a pitiful one indeed.
> | That's a fuckin' crock of shit, you self-righteous scumsucker. :))
Look, Homunculus, you missed *two* bits of irony (you must be an
American): my reply and James Follett's exquisite pearl replying to your
stuffy "By all means hate Sloth and Ignorance."
Let me explain. James chose the parallel adjective "lazy" in response
to your noun "Sloth" and "ignorant" to mirror your "Ignorance":
>>Okay -- trim your reposts, you ignorant, lazy motherfucker.
"Motherfucker" is, of course, an appropriate epithet for a *pigheaded
motherfucker* like you who has been asked dozens of times to trim his
fuckin' reposts and to put his goddamn replies *after* the quoted
material, but won't.
Simon R. Hughes
> One thing I dislike is the term "senior citizen"; it manages to
> be patronizing [sic] and elitest [sic] at the same time. I'm an old age
> pensioner; as crumbly as a leper in a wind tunnel, and let no one
> forget it.
>
> --
> James Follett -- novelist http://www.davew.demon.co.uk
>
> Yes, and we should indulge your obscenities because of it?
Bloody Hell, he did it!!
The word is "enjoy" or "appreciate", not "indulge".
mpl...@my-deja.com
Mike Oliver <oli...@math.ucla.edu> wrote:
> For several years the phrases "hate crime" and "hate speech" have
> been floating around, but only very recently I've noticed that
> some people are using the word "hate" by itself with the specific
> meaning of "the emotional content of bigotry".
>
> There was an entire article in (I believe) the New York Times Magazine
> on hate, without a single suggestion that it was possible to hate
> an individual, or an idea, or an occurrence.
>
> now will sentences like "I hate Johnny Thompson, he's just mean" or
> "I hate my job" or "I hate it that all must die", be greeted
> with blank stares?
>
> a pity that it's no longer possible to talk of a "gay party" without
> raising issues of sexual orientation, it has not really impoverished
> the language much. But I really can't think of many substitutes
> for "hate" in the sense of "passionate disaffection".
>
What you are ignoring is that the word _hate,_ in its most naked form,
had negative connotations long before the present concern with hate
crimes.
By "most naked," I mean the use of the word in an unmodified or
non-narrowed form. Consider the following sentences.
1) I hate anchovies.
2) I hate making speeches in public.
3) I hate evil.
The focus in these sentences is either on the author as a "hater" in a
narrow context or on the object of his hate.
Compare these sentences.
1) I am full of hate.
2) I am a hater.
3) I hate.
Is not your reaction to these sentences much different than your
reaction to the first group of sentences? Mine certainly is. In these
last sentences, hate itself is close to being the focus, and it is a
negative view of hate.
When Samuel Johnson said "I like a good hater," as he was quoted in a
previous post, I am sure he knew what he was doing. He was trying to
make the point that some good can come from hate, but his sentence draws
people's attention precisely because it plays off of the common feeling
that it is _bad_ to be a hater.
It is really not that far from the unmodified _hate_ of the second group
of sentences above to a modern sentence such as "We must get rid of hate
in our schools." Everyone knows that the speaker is not saying that kids
in the school cafeteria are not allowed to hate green beans.
That being the case, I conclude that we need not fear that we will need
in the future to find a substitute for the word _hate._
--
Raymond S. Wise
Email: mplsrayPl...@yahoo.com
Remove "PleaseNoSpam" to email me.
Michael West
D. Spencer Hines <D._Spence...@aya.yale.edu> wrote in message
news:814gou$8l5$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
> One thing I dislike is the term "senior citizen"; it manages to
> be patronizing [sic] and elitest [sic] at the same time. I'm an old age
> pensioner; as crumbly as a leper in a wind tunnel, and let no one
> forget it.
>
> --
> James Follett -- novelist http://www.davew.demon.co.uk
>
> Yes, and we should indulge your obscenities because of it?
Here's an idea. Let's take a poll (RF, do you thing you are finished yet
with that other business?) and find out how many people who participate here
would gladly indulge Mr Follet's rare, well-targeted obscenity as an
alternative to Dispenser Hiney's vacuous narcissism?
--
--
Michael West
Melbourne, Australia
D. Spencer Hines
| finished yet with that other business?)...
<baldersnip>
--
--
Michael West
Melbourne, Australia
<Groak>
Michael West
> | Here's an idea. Let's take a poll (RF, do you thing [sic] you are
> | finished yet with that other business?)...
>
> <baldersnip>
Yes, I see I am no match for you.
D. Spencer Hines
I found it particularly offensive that he would bring my Mother into it.
My experience had led me to think that an English gentleman of his age
and status would not do such a thing.
Obviously, I was wrong to think so.
I've never seen an English gentleman do anything of this sort before and
it certainly is not something that I'd ever do or that anyone I respect
would ever do.
--
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"There're two kinds of people in this life, my friend --- those who have
loaded guns and those who dig. You dig." --- Clint Eastwood as The Man
With No Name "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" --- Sergio Leone [1966]
James Follett <ja...@marage.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:943004...@marage.demon.co.uk...
| In article <812ukq$1no$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>
| N...@ToSpam.edu "D. Spencer Hines" writes:
|
| >By all means hate Sloth and Ignorance.
|
| Okay -- trim your reposts, you ignorant, lazy motherfucker.
|
D. Spencer Hines
It really makes no difference.
He is IN California --- and has obviously picked up the virus.
He's also a thoroughly foul-mouthed blackguard.
"The International Maledicta Society" --- in his header --- Indeed.
--
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"There're two kinds of people in this life, my friend --- those who have
loaded guns and those who dig. You dig." --- Clint Eastwood as The Man
With No Name "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" --- Sergio Leone [1966]
Reinhold (Rey) Aman <am...@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:383628...@sonic.net...
<baldersnip>
| First, Homunculus, I am not a Californian....
<baldersnip>
Polar
Follett) wrote:
[...]
>One thing I dislike is the term "senior citizen"; it manages to
>be patronizing and elitest at the same time. I'm an old age
>pensioner; as crumbly as a leper in a wind tunnel, and let no one
>forget it.
How do you like the term they use in Montreal? I found it enchanting.
"Age d'Or" (Golden Age).
--
Polar
James Follett
The appalling Jimbo wrote:
>| Okay -- trim your reposts, you ignorant, lazy motherfucker.
And the equally appalling Spencer Hine replied:
>I found it particularly offensive that he would bring my Mother into it.
>
>My experience had led me to think that an English gentleman of his age
>and status would not do such a thing.
You're quite right: the term "motherfucker" is more likely to used
by an American rather than an Englishman. It gets bandied about as a
generic insult without thought that for some, due to, perhaps,
an unfortunate incident in their past, it might prod a wound that
time hasn't healed. I apologize for my disregard of your feelings
in this matter. In a feeble attempt to be seen as a caring,
understanding English gentleman, all I can do is try to redeem my
unseemly behaviour by politely asking what happened. Did you both
get drunk?
A certain king of Thebes had a similar problem to yours -- he
went bit further than your one night messing-with-mater stand
and actually married his mother. Maybe you should've mugged-up
on Greek rather than Latin.
James Follett
N...@ToSpam.edu "D. Spencer Hines" writes:
>One thing I dislike is the term "senior citizen"; it manages to
>be patronizing [sic] and elitest [sic] at the same time. I'm an old age
>pensioner; as crumbly as a leper in a wind tunnel, and let no one
>forget it.
>
>--
>James Follett -- novelist http://www.davew.demon.co.uk
Dear Mr Hines,
The above repost has been altered. By all means repost the comments
of another and show the proper attribution line markers, but don't
tamper with the content. That you need to forge my commments doesn't
say much for the strength of your arguments.
Please vomit up your sics in the proper manner -- as your comments.
James Follett
sme...@mindspring.com "Polar" writes:
>>One thing I dislike is the term "senior citizen"; it manages to
>>be patronizing and elitest at the same time. I'm an old age
>>pensioner; as crumbly as a leper in a wind tunnel, and let no one
>>forget it.
>
>How do you like the term they use in Montreal? I found it enchanting.
>"Age d'Or" (Golden Age).
Ohmegawd... That's dangerously close to a term used by a UK travel
company, Hogg Robinson, when they mail-blitzed their regular
customers who had reached 60.
Here's my (off-topic) reply to Jennifer Cartwright, their customer
relations muppet:
>l:\wp\let\trav\hr.05
Dear Jenny,
Many thanks for your Golden Years holiday brochure for the over
60s. The cover depicts a frail, white-haired couple sipping lemon
tea at a pavement cafe overlooking Lake Geneva. I'm sorry but the
holidays you have on offer for crumblies don't appear to cover
my needs. I haven't got white hair and, at 22 stone, I can hardly
be called frail, and, quite frankly, Geneva's night life leaves
much to be desired. Last time I was there the Swiss authorities had
a rule that dancing girls in nightclubs had to wear cache sexes over
their pussies and funny little sequin gizmos over their nipples.
Perhaps you could advise if these ludicrous bye-laws are still in
force?
What interests me is a water-skiing vacation with a bevy of
topless bimbos on the Spanish Costas, or any holiday that requires
treatment with a course of broad spectrum antibiotics on my return
home to get rid of the souvenirs. Perhaps you could smuggle me onto
a Club 18-30 holiday?
Also, is it true that there is no age of consent in Japan? As
travel agents with "over fifty years' experience in meeting the
needs of travellers" I'm sure you must know the answer. If it's
true then put me down for 14 nights in Tokyo at the Keito Palace
Hotel in Shinjuki. A friend tells me that their lobby clerks are
discreet and understanding but you may know a better hotel that
provide even younger girls.
Yours sincerely etc
The above letter earned me a po-faced reply from Hogg Robinson
(now called "Going Places") informing me that my name had been
removed from their mailing list.
D. Spencer Hines
A very twisted old man indeed.
22 stone? I make that out to be 308 pounds.
Yes, I imagine he's rather funny to watch when he walks. Or perhaps he
doesn't walk at all.
Perhaps he just munges along like a large gray slug, leaving a slick
behind him, oozing from his diaper.
Just now, he needs his male nurse to wipe that dribble off his chin and
out of his nostrils as well.
--
D. Spencer Hines
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"There're two kinds of people in this life, my friend --- those who have
loaded guns and those who dig. You dig." --- Clint Eastwood as The Man
With No Name "The Good, The Bad and The Ugly" --- Sergio Leone [1966]
James Follett <ja...@marage.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:943101...@marage.demon.co.uk...
a1a5...@sprint.ca
Follett) wrote:
[ ]
>You're quite right: the term "motherfucker" is more likely to used
>by an American rather than an Englishman.
>James Follett -- novelist http://www.davew.demon.co.uk
>
The concept is universal, and -- like other forms of reference to
incestuous behaviour -- spelling it out is universally condemned.
Americans seem, however, to have lost the edge of the insult (which
must exist in all languages -- I remember one of Haileybury's best
telling me that a Ghurka had once unbelted and tied him to the
railway track after he had used the epithet. He, the
Haileyburr-to-be, ten year-old scion of a Political Agent, pronounced
it 'bahnchut').
Perchprism
>From: ja...@marage.demon.co.uk (James Follett)
>Date: Sat, 20 November 1999 07:34 AM EST
>Message-id: <943101...@marage.demon.co.uk>
I think I love you.
--
Perchprism
(southern New Jersey, near Philadelphia)
a1a5...@sprint.ca
wrote:
>
><a1a5...@sprint.ca> wrote in message
>news:3836ca99...@news.sprint.ca...
>Now that's what I would call a parenthesis on steroids!
>
>--
>--
>Michael West
>Melbourne, Australia
>
Jimbo needs the full-strength variety, but at 22 stone one wonders at
his obsession about "upside down".
Michael West
> In article <814gou$8l5$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>
> N...@ToSpam.edu "D. Spencer Hines" writes:
>
> >One thing I dislike is the term "senior citizen"; it manages to
> >pensioner; as crumbly as a leper in a wind tunnel, and let no one
> >forget it.
> >
>
> The above repost has been altered. By all means repost the comments
> of another and show the proper attribution line markers, but don't
> tamper with the content. That you need to forge my commments doesn't
> say much for the strength of your arguments.
>
> Please vomit up your sics in the proper manner -- as your comments.
As well command the blind to see, Jim.
Michael West
<a1a5...@sprint.ca> wrote in message
news:3836ca99...@news.sprint.ca...
> On Sat, 20 Nov 99 13:26:51 GMT, ja...@marage.demon.co.uk (James
> Follett) wrote:
>
> [ ]
>
> >You're quite right: the term "motherfucker" is more likely to used
> >by an American rather than an Englishman.
> incestuous behaviour -- spelling it out is universally condemned.
> Americans seem, however, to have lost the edge of the insult (which
> must exist in all languages -- I remember one of Haileybury's best
> telling me that a Ghurka had once unbelted and tied him to the
> railway track after he had used the epithet. He, the
> Haileyburr-to-be, ten year-old scion of a Political Agent, pronounced
> it 'bahnchut').
Now that's what I would call a parenthesis on steroids!
--
James Follett
N...@ToSpam.edu "D. Spencer Hines" writes:
>Perhaps he just munges along like a large gray slug, leaving a slick
>behind him, oozing from his diaper.
>
>Just now, he needs his male nurse to wipe that dribble off his chin and
>out of his nostrils as well.
Wow! Look at that! My very own flame. And I get top billing at the
head of a 174-line post. Unfortunately, as flames go, it's a pretty
miserable affair. Sorry, Spence, but you're not in Reinhold's league.
Even I could do better. E.g. Opening a paragraph with "perhaps"
suggests uncertainty and indecisiveness. With flames there shouldn't
be any shilly-shallying. Get in there and go straight for the jugular.
He munges along like a bloated, repulsive slug, leaving a glutinous
trail of rancid excrement that spawns clouds of evil-smelling toxic
green vapour that could wreck the market value of a skunk's holiday
home...
Get the idea? Now go to it and don't come back until you've composed
a Latin-free flame that I can be sufficiently proud of to show my
friends.
--
Anandashankar Mazumdar
a1a5...@sprint.ca wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Nov 99 13:26:51 GMT, ja...@marage.demon.co.uk (James
> Follett) wrote:
>> You're quite right: the term "motherfucker" is more likely to used
>> by an American rather than an Englishman.
> The concept is universal, and -- like other forms of reference to
> incestuous behaviour -- spelling it out is universally condemned.
> Americans seem, however, to have lost the edge of the insult (which
> must exist in all languages -- I remember one of Haileybury's best
> telling me that a Ghurka had once unbelted and tied him to the
> railway track after he had used the epithet. He, the
> Haileyburr-to-be, ten year-old scion of a Political Agent, pronounced
> it 'bahnchut').
Which literally means "sisterfuck."
Ananda
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> In article <3836ca99...@news.sprint.ca>,
> a1a5...@sprint.ca wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 Nov 99 13:26:51 GMT, ja...@marage.demon.co.uk
> > (James Follett) wrote:
>
> >> You're quite right: the term "motherfucker" is more likely to used
> >> by an American rather than an Englishman.
> > The concept is universal, and -- like other forms of reference to
> > incestuous behaviour -- spelling it out is universally condemned.
> > Americans seem, however, to have lost the edge of the insult (which
> > must exist in all languages
Sorry, "motherfucker" and related mother-insults do not exist in all
languages. For example, there is no _Mutterficker_ or similar in German
(nor in most or all Germanic languages, except English). Incest-related
insults occur predominantly in Asian and African languages. The
infamous Russian mother-insult is an import from their Asian neighbors,
and the English/American one from West-African slaves.
> > -- I remember one of Haileybury's best
> > telling me that a Ghurka had once unbelted and tied him to the
> > railway track after he had used the epithet. He, the
> > Haileyburr-to-be, ten year-old scion of a Political Agent, pronounced
> > it 'bahnchut').
> Which literally means "sisterfuck."
According to my sources (transliterated amateurishly):
_baing chood_ = sisterfucker
_choodmarani_ = motherfucker
--
Reinhold (Rey) Aman, Editor
MALEDICTA: The International Journal of Verbal Aggression
John Flynn
How about paternal sexual intercourse name-calling? I haven't heard
anyone being called a "fatherfucker" in English, and this does offer
the caller the chance to use two potentially offensive implications
in one go (i.e. they are committing incest, and they are homosexual
-- which isn't as much of an insult nowadays, but to some people I
suppose it still is).
Although, maybe this does exist in other languages... I await
enlightenment.
--
johnF
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
> Vide infra pro phrenetico.
Vide *this*, you stultus cacademicus!
[...]
> Just now, he needs his male nurse to wipe that dribble
> off his chin and out of his nostrils as well.
What a fool you are, D. Spencer! James Follett having a *male* nurse,
as a latent homosexual like you would? The James we know and love would
have two half-naked, big-titted nymphets in microskirts taking care of
all his bodily needs.
[Snipped irrelevant remainder, as any non-pigheaded reader would.]
Dr Robin Bignall
below the words (copyright Tom Lehrer) to the song Oedipus Rex (from
memory):
There once was a man called Oedipus Rex,
You might well think he's got an odd complex,
His name appears in Freud's index,
Cause he LOVED his mother.
His rivals used say quite a bit,
That as a monarch he was most unfit,
But all in all they had to admit,
That he LOVED his mother.
Yes he loved his mother like no other --
His daughter was his sister and his son was his brother!
One thing on which you can depend is --
He sure knew who a man's best friend is!
When he found out what he had done,
He tore his eyes out one by one,
A tragic end to a loyal son,
Who LOVED his mother.
So if you have a mother ask her round for a chat,
Buy her candy or some flowers or a brand-new hat,
But maybe you had better let it go at that!
Or you'll end up like Oedipus (I'd rather marry a duck-billed platypus) than
end up like old Oedipus Rex!!!
(It's better sung, but I can't transcribe the music!)
--
Wrmst rgds,
RB... (docr...@cwcom.net)
a1a5...@sprint.ca
<amaz...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>In article <3836ca99...@news.sprint.ca>,
> a1a5...@sprint.ca wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 20 Nov 99 13:26:51 GMT, ja...@marage.demon.co.uk (James
>> Follett) wrote:
>
>>> You're quite right: the term "motherfucker" is more likely to used
>>> by an American rather than an Englishman.
>
>> The concept is universal, and -- like other forms of reference to
>> incestuous behaviour -- spelling it out is universally condemned.
>> Americans seem, however, to have lost the edge of the insult (which
>> must exist in all languages -- I remember one of Haileybury's best
>> telling me that a Ghurka had once unbelted and tied him to the
>> railway track after he had used the epithet. He, the
>> Haileyburr-to-be, ten year-old scion of a Political Agent, pronounced
>> it 'bahnchut').
>
> Which literally means "sisterfuck."
>
> Ananda
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
Well, that's all right then.
a1a, Byronically.
Reinhold (Rey) Aman
[...]
> How about paternal sexual intercourse name-calling? I haven't heard
> anyone being called a "fatherfucker" in English, and this does offer
> the caller the chance to use two potentially offensive implications
> in one go (i.e. they are committing incest, and they are homosexual
> -- which isn't as much of an insult nowadays, but to some people I
> suppose it still is).
>
> Although, maybe this does exist in other languages... I await
> enlightenment.
Below are examples of (incestuous) father-insults (homo- and
heterosexual) from around the world:
!Kung (Africa): "You'd fuck your own father!" Said by husband to
philandering wife.
Sango (Africa): "You have fucked your father!"
Turkish: "I fuck your father!"
Spanish (Puerto Rico): "Fuck your dead father!"
Tulu (India): "You who mounted your father!"
Thai: "Fuck your father!"
Mayan: "Fuck your father!"
Rachel Meredith Kadelk-Garcia
>
>How about paternal sexual intercourse name-calling? I haven't heard
>anyone being called a "fatherfucker" in English, and this does offer
>the caller the chance to use two potentially offensive implications
>in one go (i.e. they are committing incest, and they are homosexual
>-- which isn't as much of an insult nowadays, but to some people I
>suppose it still is).
I suppose this is that flip-side of gender-neutral "he", gender-specific
singular "they".
Rachel
Charles Riggs
<am...@sonic.net> wrote:
>Anandashankar Mazumdar wrote:
>
>> In article <3836ca99...@news.sprint.ca>,
>> a1a5...@sprint.ca wrote:
>
>> > On Sat, 20 Nov 99 13:26:51 GMT, ja...@marage.demon.co.uk
>> > (James Follett) wrote:
>>
>> >> You're quite right: the term "motherfucker" is more likely to used
>> >> by an American rather than an Englishman.
>
>> > The concept is universal, and -- like other forms of reference to
>> > incestuous behaviour -- spelling it out is universally condemned.
>> > Americans seem, however, to have lost the edge of the insult (which
>> > must exist in all languages
>
>Sorry, "motherfucker" and related mother-insults do not exist in all
>languages. For example, there is no _Mutterficker_ or similar in German
>(nor in most or all Germanic languages, except English). Incest-related
>insults occur predominantly in Asian and African languages. The
>infamous Russian mother-insult is an import from their Asian neighbors,
>and the English/American one from West-African slaves.
Should we assume, though, that "motherfucker" refers to incestuous
behavior? It could equally well be referring to adulterous behavior.
Charles Riggs
Michael Cargal
>In article <816clj$je8$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>
> N...@ToSpam.edu "D. Spencer Hines" writes:
>
>
>>Perhaps he just munges along like a large gray slug, leaving a slick
>>behind him, oozing from his diaper.
>>
>>Just now, he needs his male nurse to wipe that dribble off his chin and
>>out of his nostrils as well.
>
>Wow! Look at that! My very own flame. And I get top billing at the
>head of a 174-line post. Unfortunately, as flames go, it's a pretty
>miserable affair. Sorry, Spence, but you're not in Reinhold's league.
>Even I could do better. E.g. Opening a paragraph with "perhaps"
>suggests uncertainty and indecisiveness. With flames there shouldn't
>be any shilly-shallying. Get in there and go straight for the jugular.
>
> He munges along like a bloated, repulsive slug, leaving a glutinous
> trail of rancid excrement that spawns clouds of evil-smelling toxic
> green vapour that could wreck the market value of a skunk's holiday
> home...
>
>Get the idea? Now go to it and don't come back until you've composed
>a Latin-free flame that I can be sufficiently proud of to show my
>friends.
James, you often remind me of act 1 of Cyrano, where Cyrano tells the
young importunist not to waste his opportunity to comment on Cyrano's
nose and tells him some things he might have said had he enough wit to
think of them.
--
Michael Cargal car...@cts.com
Simon R. Hughes
It could actually be referring to normal marital relations, given that
the female is also a mother.
--
Simon R. Hughes -- http://sult.8m.com/
Quoting Usenet Articles in Follow-ups
http://sult.8m.com/quote.html
Mark Michael Mathis
phrase "Uncle Fucker".
On Sun, 21 Nov 1999, Reinhold (Rey) Aman wrote:
> John Flynn wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > How about paternal sexual intercourse name-calling? I haven't heard
> > anyone being called a "fatherfucker" in English, and this does offer
> > the caller the chance to use two potentially offensive implications
> > in one go (i.e. they are committing incest, and they are homosexual
> > -- which isn't as much of an insult nowadays, but to some people I
> > suppose it still is).
> >
Avi Jacobson
"Reinhold (Rey) Aman" <am...@sonic.net> wrote:
> John Flynn wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> > How about paternal sexual intercourse name-calling? I haven't heard
> > anyone being called a "fatherfucker" in English, and this does offer
> > the caller the chance to use two potentially offensive implications
> > in one go (i.e. they are committing incest, and they are homosexual
> > -- which isn't as much of an insult nowadays, but to some people I
> > suppose it still is).
> >
> > Although, maybe this does exist in other languages... I await
> > enlightenment.
>
> Below are examples of (incestuous) father-insults (homo- and
> heterosexual) from around the world:
>
> !Kung (Africa): "You'd fuck your own father!" Said by husband to
> philandering wife.
>
> Sango (Africa): "You have fucked your father!"
>
> Turkish: "I fuck your father!"
>
> Spanish (Puerto Rico): "Fuck your dead father!"
>
> Tulu (India): "You who mounted your father!"
>
> Thai: "Fuck your father!"
>
> Mayan: "Fuck your father!"
Strange that no one has mentioned that wonderful passage from Arlo
Guthrie's "Alice's Restaurant":
- - - Quote - - -
And I walked over to the bench there, and there's.....Group W is where
they put you if you may not be moral enough to join the army after
committin' your special crime. There was all kinds of mean, nasty and
ugly-lookin' people on the bench there .....there was mother-
rapers.....father-stabbers, father-rapers! FATHER-RAPERS sittin' right
there on the bench next to me! And they was mean and nasty and ugly and
horrible and crime fightin' guys were sittin' there on the bench, and
the meaniest, ugliest, nastiest one.....the meanest father-raper of
them all.....was comin' over to me. And he was mean and nasty and
horrible and all kinds of things, and he sat down next to me. He
said, "Kid, what'd you get?"
I said, "I didn't get nothin'. I had to pay fifty dollars and pick up
the garbage"
- - - End of Quote - - -
--
Avi Jacobson, Manager of Product Language Localization, Gallery Systems
A...@GallerySystems.com - (510) 652 8950, ext. 246
Michael Hardy
> Well the World knows about our Crazy Californians.
Reinhold (Rey) Aman (am...@sonic.net) answered:
> you forgot the obligatory comma after "Well."
I don't think so. I think he was using "well" as an
adverb. His sentence is synonymous with "The World knows about
our Crazy Californians well."
Mike Hardy
--
Michael Hardy
ha...@math.mit.edu
http://www-math.mit.edu/~hardy