What metaphor am I trying to think of?
Harvey Van Sickle
well with other things in its environment, but eventually grows so big
-- without intending to -- that it absorbs or squeezes out everything
else around it.
I'm sure it's not a white elephant: that implies that it was foisted
on the host and that it's useless as well as resource-sapping. I also
don't think it's "a cuckoo in the nest" -- I take that to mean
something which invades the environment with the intention of
eventually taking over.
What does one call a co-inhabitant which unintentionally overwhelms its
environment?
--
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)
Richard Maurer
I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially
co-exists well with other things in its environment,
but eventually grows so big -- without intending to --
that it absorbs or squeezes out everything else around it.
I'm sure it's not a white elephant: that implies that it
was foisted on the host and that it's useless as well as
resource-sapping. I also don't think it's "a cuckoo in the nest" --
I take that to mean something which invades the environment
with the intention of eventually taking over.
What does one call a co-inhabitant which unintentionally
overwhelms its environment?
"Elephant in the living room" is in the ballpark.
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvey Van Sickle
> Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
> I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially
> co-exists well with other things in its environment,
> but eventually grows so big -- without intending to --
> that it absorbs or squeezes out everything else around it.
>
> I'm sure it's not a white elephant: that implies that it
> was foisted on the host and that it's useless as well as
> resource-sapping. I also don't think it's "a cuckoo in the
> nest" -- I take that to mean something which invades the
> environment with the intention of eventually taking over.
>
> What does one call a co-inhabitant which unintentionally
> overwhelms its environment?
>
> "Elephant in the living room" is in the ballpark.
Yes it is, but it's not exactly what I'm looking for: I think that
implies that everyone in the room pretends it's not there -- it's the
"great unspoken".
To be specific, I'm writing of the development of Heathrow airport.
When first introduced (1946) it was relatively benign and not entirely
unwelcomed, since it occupied a tightly-defined area of previously-
undeveloped farmland and brought jobs to the area. Over the past 60
years, though, it's sequentially obliterated and/or blighted everything
around it.
It's rather like an adult anorak whose disgusting habits and collection
of something-or-other has made his parents' house entirely unliveable.
rzed
news:Xns957163F9...@194.168.222.120:
Perhaps some form of "camel (or camel's nose) in the tent".
--
rzed
Odysseus
>
> I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially co-exists
> well with other things in its environment, but eventually grows so big
> -- without intending to -- that it absorbs or squeezes out everything
> else around it.
>
> I'm sure it's not a white elephant: that implies that it was foisted
> on the host and that it's useless as well as resource-sapping. I also
> don't think it's "a cuckoo in the nest" -- I take that to mean
> something which invades the environment with the intention of
> eventually taking over.
>
> What does one call a co-inhabitant which unintentionally overwhelms its
> environment?
>
sense that there should be one 'on the tip of my tongue'), but
metaphors of the kind often allude to vegetative or fungal growth:
"choking weeds", "creeping vines", "Jack's beanstalk", or the like. A
shade-tree that spreads out, killing the lawn? Kudzu?
--
Odysseus
Peter Duncanson
<harve...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially co-exists
>well with other things in its environment, but eventually grows so big
>-- without intending to -- that it absorbs or squeezes out everything
>else around it.
>
>I'm sure it's not a white elephant: that implies that it was foisted
>on the host and that it's useless as well as resource-sapping. I also
>don't think it's "a cuckoo in the nest" -- I take that to mean
>something which invades the environment with the intention of
>eventually taking over.
>
>What does one call a co-inhabitant which unintentionally overwhelms its
>environment?
In British English "A cuckoo in the nest" could be used.
--
Peter Duncanson
UK (posting from a.e.u)
John Dean
> I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially co-exists
> well with other things in its environment, but eventually grows so big
> -- without intending to -- that it absorbs or squeezes out everything
> else around it.
>
> I'm sure it's not a white elephant: that implies that it was foisted
> on the host and that it's useless as well as resource-sapping. I also
> don't think it's "a cuckoo in the nest" -- I take that to mean
> something which invades the environment with the intention of
> eventually taking over.
>
> What does one call a co-inhabitant which unintentionally overwhelms
> its environment?
Cuckoo in the nest?
--
John Dean
Oxford
david56
Tee hee. I managed a final check through my reply before I posted
the answer he said he didn't want, or that would have made three.
--
David
=====
Peter Duncanson
Harvey Van Sickle
I saw that, too!
In response to all three of you, I suppose "cuckooo in the nest" could
be used, but it seems to stretch the concept for me: in my mind, it
assumes malice aforethought on the part of the cuckoo (which isn't
appropriate in the case I'm thinking of).
Like Odysseus mentioned in his response, I have this vague feeling that
there's a proverbial example which is just eluding me -- but maybe I'm
just imagining that, and there isn't one...
Qp10qp
>From: Harvey Van Sickle
>I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially co-exists
>well with other things in its environment, but eventually grows so big
>-- without intending to -- that it absorbs or squeezes out everything
>else around it.
Grew like Topsy?
Peasemarch.
CB
"Qp10qp" <qp1...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040927100753...@mb-m17.aol.com...
Cancer, if you feel negative enough about it. That's a part of an
organism that grows out of control. Some kind of benign tumour? CDB
John Dean
I don't hink there's any malice on the cuckoo's part - just a genetic
imperative.
But I must apologise for not reading your original post more carefully?
Little Shop of Horrors?
I had a thought to Google on "it just grew like a" and I got these
phrases:
... it just grew like a garden from the seeds
I had planted and nurtured and was harvested when the fruit was ripe and
...
... To me ListProc doesn't look like it was
designed, it just grew like a weed.
... I did not really direct it, it just grew like a tree on its own."
... designed the site for a million page views a month. It just grew
like a
bat out of hell.
... It just grew like a psylicibe after a thunderstorm.
... You know, actor claims parents are aliens stuff -to government
hiding secret documents
on Elvis stuff - to - well you know, it just grew like a disease. ...
... everything. I even tried pouring water on it, but it just grew like
a flower.)
... anyone. About this time last year, a began to be interested in
Japanese
culture, and from there it just grew like a wildfire. I ...
... light and dark.. on some places along the wall, there was no ivy..
but at
certain points, it just grew like a thick afro.. i'm not .
--
John Dean
Oxford
Harvey Van Sickle
> Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
>>>>> What does one call a co-inhabitant which unintentionally
>>>>> overwhelms its environment?
-snip-
>> In response to all three of you, I suppose "cuckooo in the nest"
>> could be used, but it seems to stretch the concept for me: in my
>> mind, it assumes malice aforethought on the part of the cuckoo
>> (which isn't appropriate in the case I'm thinking of).
>> Like Odysseus mentioned in his response, I have this vague
>> feeling that there's a proverbial example which is just eluding
>> me -- but maybe I'm just imagining that, and there isn't one...
> I don't hink there's any malice on the cuckoo's part - just a
> genetic imperative.
> But I must apologise for not reading your original post more
> carefully? Little Shop of Horrors?
I like that. (Feed me. Feed me NOW!)
> I had a thought to Google on "it just grew like a" and I got these
> phrases:
>
-snip good examples-
Many thanks; much food for thought there.
I think I'll probably compare it to an invasive plant -- like a Russian
vine, or Japanese knotweed.
(As mentioned in another response, I'm describing the growth of
Heathrow airport -- which in 1946 was thought to be containable.)
Harvey Van Sickle
> "Qp10qp" <qp1...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040927100753...@mb-m17.aol.com...
>>> Subject: What metaphor am I trying to think of?
>>> From: Harvey Van Sickle
>>
>>> I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially
>>> co-exists well with other things in its environment, but
>>> eventually grows so big -- without intending to -- that it
>>> absorbs or squeezes out everything else around it.
>> Grew like Topsy?
I'm not sure, but I think that merely implies haphazard growth rather
than sheer size.
> Cancer, if you feel negative enough about it. That's a part of an
> organism that grows out of control. Some kind of benign tumour?
I'm trying to be analytical rather than taking sides: it's a
descriptive summary of the growth of Heathrow airport -- which in 1946
was thought to be a containable development -- and it's fairly
important to avoid partisan commentary.
As mentioned in a response to John Dean, I think I'll compare it to an
vigorous but invasive plant (a Russian vine or similar).
Spehro Pefhany
There are a few critters that bring the "invasive" image to mind, such
as zebra mussels, rabbits (in Australia) and fire ants.
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
sp...@interlog.com Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
Maria Conlon
> CB wrote:
>> Qp10qp wrote:
>>> Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
>>>> I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially
>>>> co-exists well with other things in its environment, but
>>>> eventually grows so big -- without intending to -- that it
>>>> absorbs or squeezes out everything else around it.
>
>>> Grew like Topsy?
>
> I'm not sure, but I think that merely implies haphazard growth rather
> than sheer size.
>
>> Cancer, if you feel negative enough about it. That's a part of an
>> organism that grows out of control. Some kind of benign tumour?
>
> I'm trying to be analytical rather than taking sides: it's a
> descriptive summary of the growth of Heathrow airport -- which in 1946
> was thought to be a containable development -- and it's fairly
> important to avoid partisan commentary.
>
> As mentioned in a response to John Dean, I think I'll compare it to an
> vigorous but invasive plant (a Russian vine or similar).
The "kudzu" would be a good choice. See:
Maria Conlon
Maria Conlon
Sorry, I hadn't read what Odysseus had posted until after I sent the above.
(And "The" kudzu should be "Then" kudzu.... it's always something.)
Maria Conlon
don groves
@hotmail.com wrote...
Yes, "the vine that ate the South". Also the title of a fairly
funny comic strip. But is it known enough beyond the US and Japan
to qualify as metaphor material?
--
dg (domain=ccwebster)
Jess Askin
"Harvey Van Sickle" <harve...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95715E8B...@62.253.162.203...
> I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially co-exists
> well with other things in its environment, but eventually grows so big
> -- without intending to -- that it absorbs or squeezes out everything
> else around it.
>
> I'm sure it's not a white elephant: that implies that it was foisted
> on the host and that it's useless as well as resource-sapping. I also
> don't think it's "a cuckoo in the nest" -- I take that to mean
> something which invades the environment with the intention of
> eventually taking over.
>
> What does one call a co-inhabitant which unintentionally overwhelms its
> environment?
Baby Huey?
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
> On 27 Sep 2004, CB wrote
> > "Qp10qp" <qp1...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20040927100753...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> >>> Subject: What metaphor am I trying to think of?
> >>> From: Harvey Van Sickle
> >>
> >>> I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially
> >>> co-exists well with other things in its environment, but
> >>> eventually grows so big -- without intending to -- that it
> >>> absorbs or squeezes out everything else around it.
>
> >> Grew like Topsy?
>
> I'm not sure, but I think that merely implies haphazard growth rather
> than sheer size.
I thought "grew like Topsy" meant it didn't appear to have an origin.
The way I remember the _Oxford Dictionary of Quotations_ (I haven't
read _Uncle Tom's Cabin_) is that Topsy said something like, "I don't
have no mother or father. I 'spect I jes' grew."
--
Jerry Friedman
John Varela
wrote:
> I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially co-exists
> well with other things in its environment, but eventually grows so big
> -- without intending to -- that it absorbs or squeezes out everything
> else around it.
A mushroom? A balloon?
Alice and the DRINK ME in the White Rabbit's house?
The children's story about "little pot boil"?
Spread (or grew) like wildfire, weeds, or a plague?
--
John Varela
(Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.)
I apologize for munging the address but the spam was too much.
meirman
<john...@frag.lineone.net> posted:
True, but it appears to be malicious. If a human did the same thing
and it wasn't an emergency, it would be. Whereas, the Heathrow people
probably didn't look so far into the future. They probably didn't
even use all the land they bought, at first.
>But I must apologise for not reading your original post more carefully?
>Little Shop of Horrors?
>I had a thought to Google on "it just grew like a" and I got these
Good idea!
>phrases:
>
>... it just grew like a garden from the seeds
>I had planted and nurtured and was harvested when the fruit was ripe and
>...
>
>... To me ListProc doesn't look like it was
>designed, it just grew like a weed.
>
>
>... I did not really direct it, it just grew like a tree on its own."
>
>... designed the site for a million page views a month. It just grew
>like a bat out of hell.
Even though you found it, it makes no sense. Bats coming out of hell
are not known for their growth. My aunt used the phrase correctly,
describing my mother and the family car. "You back down that driveway
[so fast it's] like a bat out of Hell." This was before power
steering and the car weighed more than 3000 pounds. But my mother
went pretty fast.
>...
s/ meirman If you are emailing me please
say if you are posting the same response.
Born west of Pittsburgh Pa. 10 years
Indianapolis, 7 years
Chicago, 6 years
Brooklyn NY 12 years
Baltimore 20 years
Ben Zimmer
>
> On 27 Sep 2004, CB wrote
> > "Qp10qp" <qp1...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:20040927100753...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> >>
> >>> I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially
> >>> co-exists well with other things in its environment, but
> >>> eventually grows so big -- without intending to -- that it
> >>> absorbs or squeezes out everything else around it.
> >>
> >> Grew like Topsy?
>
> I'm not sure, but I think that merely implies haphazard growth rather
> than sheer size.
Googling for ways to finish "(just) grew like..." ("gangbusters" and
"wildfire" are popular choices), I came across a nice mondegreen that
appeared in the Arizona Daily Star:
http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/relatedarticles/4644.php
The Amado Territory Ranch is anchored by an 11-room
bed and breakfast inn, Amado Territory Inn, that has
spectacular views and serene natural surroundings. The
rest of the land was quickly leased by other vendors.
"It just grew like top seed," Art Gould said.
Clearly the original expression, "just grew like Topsy" (referring to
Topsy in _Uncle Tom's Cabin_, who "jes grew"), was unknown to Mr. Gould,
or the reporter, or both. But who knows, this could be a folk etymology
in progress -- as the original referent of "Topsy" becomes less and less
familiar, the term could get reanalyzed as "top seed", which sounds like
something that might grow quickly.
meirman
Sickle <harve...@ntlworld.com> posted:
>I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially co-exists
>well with other things in its environment, but eventually grows so big
>-- without intending to -- that it absorbs or squeezes out everything
>else around it.
Ralph, you're so big that when you lie around the house, you LIE
AROUND the HOUSE..
But that's not the one you mean.
>I'm sure it's not a white elephant: that implies that it was foisted
>on the host and that it's useless as well as resource-sapping. I also
>don't think it's "a cuckoo in the nest" -- I take that to mean
>something which invades the environment with the intention of
>eventually taking over.
>
>What does one call a co-inhabitant which unintentionally overwhelms its
>environment?
Donna Richoux
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:17:22 UTC, Harvey Van Sickle <harve...@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially co-exists
> > well with other things in its environment, but eventually grows so big
> > -- without intending to -- that it absorbs or squeezes out everything
> > else around it.
>
> A mushroom? A balloon?
>
> Alice and the DRINK ME in the White Rabbit's house?
>
> The children's story about "little pot boil"?
That, I don't recognize. Can you tell it, please?
--
Hopefully -- Donna Richoux
R H Draney
>
>In alt.english.usage on Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:59:41 +0100 "John Dean"
><john...@frag.lineone.net> posted:
>
>>like a bat out of hell.
>
>Even though you found it, it makes no sense. Bats coming out of hell
>are not known for their growth. My aunt used the phrase correctly,
>describing my mother and the family car. "You back down that driveway
>[so fast it's] like a bat out of Hell." This was before power
>steering and the car weighed more than 3000 pounds. But my mother
>went pretty fast.
The fourth movement of PDQ Bach's "Howdy" Symphony bears the tempo designation
"come un pipistrello fuori dall' inferno"...it pays to have a sprinkling of
several languages when reading Schickele's liner notes in any sort of
detail....r
John Dean
> In alt.english.usage on Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:59:41 +0100 "John Dean"
> <john...@frag.lineone.net> posted:
>
>>
>> like a bat out of hell.
>
> Even though you found it, it makes no sense. Bats coming out of hell
> are not known for their growth. My aunt used the phrase correctly,
> describing my mother and the family car. "You back down that driveway
> [so fast it's] like a bat out of Hell." This was before power
> steering and the car weighed more than 3000 pounds. But my mother
> went pretty fast.
>
--
John Dean
Oxford
Peter Duncanson
>>I don't hink there's any malice on the cuckoo's part - just a genetic
>>imperative.
>
>True, but it appears to be malicious. If a human did the same thing
>and it wasn't an emergency, it would be. Whereas, the Heathrow people
>probably didn't look so far into the future. They probably didn't
>even use all the land they bought, at first.
I think that the "problem" at Heathrow could be described differently.
What used to be a rural area surrounding the airport is now a
heavily-built-up urban area.
Yes, the airport has expanded to occupy all the space available, but,
equally the the airport is being strangled by its surroundings.
Harvey Van Sickle
The area was, though, already a prime development zone before the
airport was a twinkle in the Ministry's eye..
The main engines of development were inter-war road improvements -- the
Great South West Road of the mid 1920s, and the Colnebrook bypass (on
the Bath Road) of 1929. Industry and projected housing had been
arriving and/or planned prior to the expropriation in 1943-44 for the
airport.
(Fairey Aviation had their aerodrome out there, but I suspect that was
seen by them as an interim use rather than the long-term, developed
future of the land.)
Daniel James
> Whereas, the Heathrow people probably didn't look so far into the
> future. They probably didn't even use all the land they bought,
> at first.
I doubt 'they' deliberately acquired an excess of land 'on spec.' -- even if
'they' were the Air Ministry and it happened to be wartime.
The airport was an RAF base during the war, and before that had been a
private airfield belonging to the Fairey aircraft company, used mostly for
test flights.
The RAF were in the process of modernizing and expanding the airfield as a
major Transport Command base when the war ended, and this work was only
partially comlete when the airfield was taken over by the civil aviation
authority in 1946. A tent was set up to act as a passenger terminal, and
expansion work continued. I expect they used all the land they had -- and
more.
London's main airport before the war had been at Croydon (25 miles from
Heathrow, and a quarter of the way around London). The Croydon site was also
used as an RAF base during the war, and although it was used as a civil
airfield after the war it was overshadowed by the larger Heathrow site which
could better cope with the larger passenger and cargo aircraft coming into
service. The last flight left Croydon in 1959, but the old control buildings
still survice as an office block called "airport house" and there is still
an "Airport Hotel".
London's second airport at Gatwick is in the same direction from the centre
as Croydon, but 12 miles further from the centre where land is cheaper and
less developed (or was, until they built an airport there).
Cheers,
Daniel.
Harvey Van Sickle
-snip-
> The airport was an RAF base during the war, and before that had
> been a private airfield belonging to the Fairey aircraft company,
> used mostly for test flights.
?? Can you confirm some sources for that? (That's not a challenge,
it's an honest request: I've not seen any indication that it was ever
an RAF base.)
As I understand it, the Fairey field -- a grass aerodrome -- was
assessed in 1943 as suitable for moving troops to the far east, but the
surrender of Japan in 1944 made the military use redundant.
The runways were indeed laid out by Transport Command and handed over
to civilian use in 1946, but I've not read anything which suggests that
the RAF ever used the runways at all (let alone as a base).
> The RAF were in the process of modernizing and expanding the
> airfield as a major Transport Command base when the war ended, and
> this work was only partially comlete when the airfield was taken
> over by the civil aviation authority in 1946. A tent was set up to
> act as a passenger terminal, and expansion work continued. I
> expect they used all the land they had -- and more.
I've recently seen some fairly convincing references to cabinet files -
- I've not confirmed it by primary research, so I can't entirely vouch
for it -- which suggest that the civil use was always the primary
intent, and that the "far east troop transport" was, in effect, little
more than an administrative mechanism which allowed expropriation
without a public enquiry.
(Sorry to be doubtful on your info as well as the "administrative
mechanism" one, but the issue of Heathrow's growth/status, etc. is such
a loaded one that I'm wary of accepting any statements at face value.)
John Dean
And I bet the aircrew are being disturbed, as they come in to land, by
the sound of people on the ground watching TV and mowing their lawns.
--
John Dean
Oxford
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
> What does one call a co-inhabitant which unintentionally
> overwhelms its environment?
>
> "Elephant in the living room" is in the ballpark.
I think I'd interpret that either like a bull in a china shop or
the dead moose on the table.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The vast majority of humans have
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |more than the average number of
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |legs.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Peter Duncanson
wrote:
Some TV, some lawnmower. (With apologies to the late Winston Churchill.)
John Varela
>
> John Varela <OLDl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > The children's story about "little pot boil"?
>
> That, I don't recognize. Can you tell it, please?
The story, which I take to bee a folk tale, is at
http://www.mainlesson.com/display.php?author=lmr&book=k1rainbow&story=pot
Short version: There exists a magic pot that, when commanded "Little pot,
boil," will make sweet custard until commanded "Little pot, stop". Someone
starts the pot boiling, but then doesn't know how to stop it. The pot boils
over until it fills the house with custard that runs out the doors and windows
and floods the town.
"Sweet custard" is the way I remember the story; the version on the web site
says "sweet porridge". The site at
http://angelagotch.tripod.com/ItalyEssay.htm
mentions the story this way: "I cannot see her face, but I think it looks like
Strega Nonna-the Strega Nonna that could flood an Italian village with pasta
by the tap of a wooden spoon and the command, 'little pot boil!'"
Mike Lyle
The Topsy thing is already being used without, I think, reference to
the original. "I 'speck I growed" (or words to that effect) seems to
me to be a tragic little statement of her lack of origins, rather
than the reference to out-of-control expansion it now is in the
mouths of politicians.
I think the OP is hunting for cuckoos. I have a vague sensation that
there's also something Shakespearean along these lines.
Mike.
Mike Lyle
[...]
> I think the OP is hunting for cuckoos. I have a vague sensation
that
> there's also something Shakespearean along these lines.
Damn. Sorry: Cuculus has been done already. Still don't know where I
am with OE.
Mike.
Donna Richoux
Thank you. I remember a picture book titled "Strega Nonna" who was a
sort of witch, but I had forgotten the story.
This runaway abundance makes me think of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer's
Apprentice... Huh, I didn't realize the composer based the work on "Der
Zauberlehrling," a poem by Goethe. Dual German/English versions shown
here:
http://www.fln.vcu.edu/goethe/zauber_dual.html
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Ben Zimmer
>
> The Topsy thing is already being used without, I think, reference to
> the original. "I 'speck I growed" (or words to that effect) seems to
> me to be a tragic little statement of her lack of origins, rather
> than the reference to out-of-control expansion it now is in the
> mouths of politicians.
Amongst African-American writers, Topsy's "jes' grew" has taken on a
different kind of expansive connotation. In his 1922 preface to _The
Book of American Negro Poetry_, James Weldon Johnson wrote that "the
earliest Ragtime songs, like Topsy, 'jes' grew'". Ishmael Reed, in his
1972 novel _Mumbo Jumbo_, uses "Jes Grew" as the name of an epidemic
that spreads across the U.S. in the '20s, embodying the spontaneous
black sensibility of the Jazz Age. More on Reed's "Jes Grew" here:
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/779/16145
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2838/is_4_36/ai_97515890
Harvey Van Sickle
> Mike Lyle wrote:
>>
>> The Topsy thing is already being used without, I think, reference
>> to the original. "I 'speck I growed" (or words to that effect)
>> seems to me to be a tragic little statement of her lack of
>> origins, rather than the reference to out-of-control expansion it
>> now is in the mouths of politicians.
>
> Amongst African-American writers, Topsy's "jes' grew" has taken on
> a different kind of expansive connotation. In his 1922 preface to
> _The Book of American Negro Poetry_, James Weldon Johnson wrote
> that "the earliest Ragtime songs, like Topsy, 'jes' grew'".
> Ishmael Reed, in his 1972 novel _Mumbo Jumbo_, uses "Jes Grew" as
> the name of an epidemic that spreads across the U.S. in the '20s,
> embodying the spontaneous black sensibility of the Jazz Age. More
> on Reed's "Jes Grew" here:
Interesting. Is there a reason that black writers substituted "grew"
for "growed" in the Topsy quote?
I've always assumed it to be hypercorrection.
Ben Zimmer
>
> On 28 Sep 2004, Ben Zimmer wrote
>
> > Mike Lyle wrote:
> >>
> >> The Topsy thing is already being used without, I think, reference
> >> to the original. "I 'speck I growed" (or words to that effect)
> >> seems to me to be a tragic little statement of her lack of
> >> origins, rather than the reference to out-of-control expansion it
> >> now is in the mouths of politicians.
> >
> > Amongst African-American writers, Topsy's "jes' grew" has taken on
> > a different kind of expansive connotation. In his 1922 preface to
> > _The Book of American Negro Poetry_, James Weldon Johnson wrote
> > that "the earliest Ragtime songs, like Topsy, 'jes' grew'".
> > Ishmael Reed, in his 1972 novel _Mumbo Jumbo_, uses "Jes Grew" as
> > the name of an epidemic that spreads across the U.S. in the '20s,
> > embodying the spontaneous black sensibility of the Jazz Age.
>
> for "growed" in the Topsy quote?
>
> I've always assumed it to be hypercorrection.
I don't know, but I think the misquoting has been rather common.
(Topsy's actual line, according to online versions of _Uncle Tom's
Cabin_, is "I spect I grow'd.") For instance, George Herriman, the
creator of the comic strip "Krazy Kat", once wrote, "Krazy Kat was not
conceived, not born, it jes' grew."
http://chnm.gmu.edu/aq/comics/reallex1.html
http://print.google.com/print/doc?isbn=0874517540
R H Draney
>
>This runaway abundance makes me think of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer's
>Apprentice... Huh, I didn't realize the composer based the work on "Der
>Zauberlehrling," a poem by Goethe. Dual German/English versions shown
>here:
> http://www.fln.vcu.edu/goethe/zauber_dual.html
Here, Donna, you had an opportunity to come off erudite and you let it slip
away...refer to Dukas instead of Disney and earn valuable longhair points....
Which reminds me of a cartoon I saw once...two men, one in a cowboy costume and
black mask, the other holding a bow and quiver full of arrows and flanked by a
small boy with an apple on his head...caption reads "it's settled then; winner
of this contest gets exclusive rights to the theme song"....r
Harvey Van Sickle
> Donna Richoux filted:
>>
>> This runaway abundance makes me think of Mickey Mouse as the
>> Sorcerer's Apprentice... Huh, I didn't realize the composer based
>> the work on "Der Zauberlehrling," a poem by Goethe. Dual
>> German/English versions shown here:
>> http://www.fln.vcu.edu/goethe/zauber_dual.html
>
> Here, Donna, you had an opportunity to come off erudite
She's been sniffing glue?
(Rightpondian joke reference.)
Donna Richoux
> Donna Richoux filted:
> >
> >This runaway abundance makes me think of Mickey Mouse as the Sorcerer's
> >Apprentice... Huh, I didn't realize the composer based the work on "Der
> >Zauberlehrling," a poem by Goethe. Dual German/English versions shown
> >here:
> > http://www.fln.vcu.edu/goethe/zauber_dual.html
>
> Here, Donna, you had an opportunity to come off erudite and you let it slip
> away...refer to Dukas instead of Disney and earn valuable longhair points....
And for what may I use these points, once earned? I suppose that they,
plus $2.95, would get me a tall latte at Starbucks?
I would never disavow Fantasia. Some of my earliest memories are looking
through the huge coffee-table book my parents had about it. I didn't
actually get to see it until it was reissued for theaters around 1970 --
and there's a whole story there about how I broke my thumb that day but
still got to see the movie, but I'll leave it at that.
I saw that some guy named Dukas in Paris wrote the music in 1897, when I
was looking for the source of the story, but frankly saw nothing there
work repeating. Is there anything else of interest about Dukas, to make
his name noteworthy?
Arcadian Rises
>Is there anything else of interest about Dukas, to make
>his name noteworthy?
"Villanelle".
As a music critic, Dukas was very critical of his work, most of which he
destroyed.
Dylan Nicholson
news:1gkungj.1siln3j90nk2N%tr...@euronet.nl...
>
> I saw that some guy named Dukas in Paris wrote the music in 1897, when I
> was looking for the source of the story, but frankly saw nothing there
> work repeating. Is there anything else of interest about Dukas, to make
> his name noteworthy?
>
the popular music world, but there's still a reasonable number of
them - Orff & Pachelbel probably being the two other most obvious
examples. Which is not to say none of their other music is
worth listening to, but they will forever be remembered almost
exclusively for a single work.
Tony Cooper
<harve...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially co-exists
>well with other things in its environment, but eventually grows so big
>-- without intending to -- that it absorbs or squeezes out everything
>else around it.
>
>I'm sure it's not a white elephant: that implies that it was foisted
>on the host and that it's useless as well as resource-sapping. I also
>don't think it's "a cuckoo in the nest" -- I take that to mean
>something which invades the environment with the intention of
>eventually taking over.
>
>What does one call a co-inhabitant which unintentionally overwhelms its
>environment?
DE781
Peter Moylan
>One hit wonders in the Classical genre aren't quite as common as in
>the popular music world, but there's still a reasonable number of
>them - Orff & Pachelbel probably being the two other most obvious
>examples. Which is not to say none of their other music is
>worth listening to, but they will forever be remembered almost
>exclusively for a single work.
Not long ago I saw a CD labelled "Pachelbel's Greatest Hit".
--
Peter Moylan peter at ee dot newcastle dot edu dot au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)
John Varela
wrote:
> One hit wonders in the Classical genre aren't quite as common as in
> the popular music world, but there's still a reasonable number of
> them - Orff & Pachelbel probably being the two other most obvious
> examples.
Well, when someone gives his stuff titles like "Seven Hundred Intellectuals
Pray to an Oil Tank" (Siebenhundert Intellektuelle beten einen Öltank an) what
can you expect?
Dylan Nicholson
news:ZKRm3c4Ddl7U-p...@dialup-4.249.72.223.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net...
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 23:14:44 UTC, "Dylan Nicholson" <wizo...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > One hit wonders in the Classical genre aren't quite as common as in
> > the popular music world, but there's still a reasonable number of
> > them - Orff & Pachelbel probably being the two other most obvious
> > examples.
>
> Well, when someone gives his stuff titles like "Seven Hundred Intellectuals
> Pray to an Oil Tank" (Siebenhundert Intellektuelle beten einen Öltank an) what
> can you expect?
>
Actually I did once hear something else by Orff, but it wasn't terribly
memorable.
Arcadian Rises
>
>Actually I did once hear something else by Orff, but it wasn't terribly
>memorable.
>
Catulli carmina?
R J Valentine
} Dylan Nicholson hayshed:
}
}>One hit wonders in the Classical genre aren't quite as common as in
}>the popular music world, but there's still a reasonable number of
}>them - Orff & Pachelbel probably being the two other most obvious
}>examples. Which is not to say none of their other music is
}>worth listening to, but they will forever be remembered almost
}>exclusively for a single work.
}
} Not long ago I saw a CD labelled "Pachelbel's Greatest Hit".
True album. I got it years ago on cassette. Several renditions.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
Richard Bollard
Moylan) wrote:
>Dylan Nicholson hayshed:
>
>>One hit wonders in the Classical genre aren't quite as common as in
>>the popular music world, but there's still a reasonable number of
>>them - Orff & Pachelbel probably being the two other most obvious
>>examples. Which is not to say none of their other music is
>>worth listening to, but they will forever be remembered almost
>>exclusively for a single work.
>
>Not long ago I saw a CD labelled "Pachelbel's Greatest Hit".
>
Snap! I've got it. Several different interpretations of the same piece
including one by a brass band.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra, Australia
Dylan Nicholson
news:415a536f...@news.canberra.edu.au...
And surely they have the all-time classic "hold music" version, played
on a 2 bit synthesizer?
What about the mobile phone ring version?
Harvey Van Sickle
Ooo, that's good; that's really good...
Qp10qp
>of?]
>From: "Dylan Nicholson" wizo...@hotmail.com
>One hit wonders in the Classical genre aren't quite as common as in
>the popular music world, but there's still a reasonable number of
>them - Orff & Pachelbel probably being the two other most obvious
>examples. Which is not to say none of their other music is
>worth listening to, but they will forever be remembered almost
>exclusively for a single work.
The one that comes to my mind is the overture to Ruslan and Ludmilla by Glinka.
I've never heard anything else by him, not even the opera Ruslan and Ludmilla.
Then there's Purcell's Trumpet Voluntary by Clarke,
Peasemarch.
Areff
> } Not long ago I saw a CD labelled "Pachelbel's Greatest Hit".
>
> True album. I got it years ago on cassette. Several renditions.
Does it have the version by George Winston? He plays it in C (bwaha).
--
Daniel James
Sickle wrote:
> > The airport was an RAF base during the war, and before that had
> > been a private airfield belonging to the Fairey aircraft company,
> > used mostly for test flights.
>
> ?? Can you confirm some sources for that? (That's not a challenge,
> it's an honest request: I've not seen any indication that it was ever
> an RAF base.)
When I said "an RAF base" I did't mean to suggest that combat missions
were flown from there. I do recall having read or been told that Heathrow
was used as as RAF base in the Battle of Britain, but a little cursory
Googling yesterday failed to turn up any evidence for that so I
deliberately didn't claim it. There may be some confusion (in my mind or
in others') stemming from the fact that "London airport" (Croydon) *was*
a fighter station during the battle.
http://www.airwise.com/airports/europe/LHR/LHR_07.html says:
| Wartime priorities changed the course of Heathrow's history.
| In 1944 it was requisitioned by the Air Ministry to be developed
| as a major transport base for the Royal Air Force. Before the work
| was completed the war ended and with it came the prospect of a huge
| expansion in civil aviation.
http://www.heathrow-airport-guide.co.uk/history.html says much the same.
http://www.thisislongford.com/heathrow.htm (the website of a local
resients' action group, that I didn't read yesterday) says something
rather different, though:
| The first mention of the proposed airport in Air Ministry files is
| in mid-1943. It is clear that it was destined to be a civil airport
| right from the start. The development of the site for the Royal Air
| Force was merely a ruse to circumvent a public inquiry and to quell
| criticism that the war effort was being diverted to matters that
| could await the end of hostilities.
and
| Despite all the spurious claims about the urgent RAF need, the RAF
| had never used the airport and the first use of the airport was for
| a civil flight, which took place for publicity purposes
That website also quotes Harold Balfour writing, years after the event:
| “Almost the last thing I did at the Air Ministry of any importance
| was to hi-jack for Civil Aviation the land on which London [Heathrow]
| Airport stands under the noses of resistant Ministerial colleagues.
| If high-jack is too strong a term I plead guilty to the lesser crime
| of deceiving a Cabinet Committee. Within the Department those of us
| who had studied post-war Civil Aviation needs knew that spreading out
| from the Fairey Aviation Company’s small grass aerodrome on the Great
| West Staines Road was land ideal for London’s main airport. We also
| knew that any thought of trying to get the land for a civil purpose
| would have to go through the complicated civil procedures and bound
| to be resisted by Agriculture and Housing and maybe more Ministries.
| Therefore our only hope lay in taking over the Fairey field and
| adjacent land under wartime powers and regulations. These powers
| were drastic and should not be employed for anything but war purposes.”
So it looks as though I should have written "was an RAF base under
construction" as it was apparently never used.
Cheers,
Daniel.
Sara Lorimer
> Harvey Van Sickle wrote:
> I'm missing a metaphor: the one where something initially
> co-exists well with other things in its environment,
> but eventually grows so big -- without intending to --
> that it absorbs or squeezes out everything else around it.
>
> I'm sure it's not a white elephant: that implies that it
> was foisted on the host and that it's useless as well as
> resource-sapping. I also don't think it's "a cuckoo in the nest" --
> I take that to mean something which invades the environment
> with the intention of eventually taking over.
>
> What does one call a co-inhabitant which unintentionally
> overwhelms its environment?
>
>
>
> "Elephant in the living room" is in the ballpark.
>
I've heard "elephant in the living room" only to mean "the thing we all
know about but won't discuss," e.g. Cousin John's alcoholism.
--
SML
Mickwick
>>One hit wonders in the Classical genre aren't quite as common as in
>>the popular music world, but there's still a reasonable number of
>>them - Orff & Pachelbel probably being the two other most obvious
>>examples. Which is not to say none of their other music is
>>worth listening to, but they will forever be remembered almost
>>exclusively for a single work.
>
>The one that comes to my mind is the overture to Ruslan and Ludmilla by Glinka.
>I've never heard anything else by him, not even the opera Ruslan and Ludmilla.
>Then there's Purcell's Trumpet Voluntary by Clarke,
What about Albinoni? He's famous for his Adagio and not much else. (The
Allegro e non presto and Allegro from the same piece are pretty good,
though. Tasty.)
--
Mickwick
don groves
que.sara....@gmail.com>, que.sara....@gmail.com
wrote...
Isn't that a "skeleton in the closet"?
I understand "elephant in the living room" as the-big-thing-we-
fail-to-notice-while-fussing-over-all-the-little-things.
IIRC, the original fable concerned the fact that elephants are
usually accompanied by lots of flies and that we tend to spend
all our time swatting flies and not even noticing the elephant.
Another take: It's not the boulder in your path that keeps you
from reaching your goals, it the pebbles in your shoe.
--
dg (domain=ccwebster)
Mike Lyle
I think it may be more than hypercorrection: I can quite understand
why educated black writers would want to put a distance between
themselves and a bygone white author's "nigger-talk". "Jes'" will
pass as dialect; but "growed" is plain sub-standard. I'd like to
think I could rise above such concerns, but it's easy for me, since
I'm not in their position; and in this case, there's no need for an
exact quotation. Pity to lose the very striking original force,
though: but how many people have actually read the original?
Mike.
Andrew Bull
>In alt.usage.english, Qp10qp wrote:
>
>>>One hit wonders in the Classical genre aren't quite as common as in
>>>the popular music world, but there's still a reasonable number of
>>>them - Orff & Pachelbel probably being the two other most obvious
>>>examples. Which is not to say none of their other music is
>>>worth listening to, but they will forever be remembered almost
>>>exclusively for a single work.
>>
>>The one that comes to my mind is the overture to Ruslan and Ludmilla by
Glinka.
>>I've never heard anything else by him, not even the opera Ruslan and
Ludmilla.
>>Then there's Purcell's Trumpet Voluntary by Clarke,
>
>What about Albinoni? He's famous for his Adagio and not much else.
According to the Guinness Book of Records, he didn't even write that - it
was "constructed from a fragment" by Giazotto.
Clarke/Purcell's Prince of Denmark's March/Trumpet Voluntary is in under the
same section (Most wrong ascriptions), as is Hertel/Herold's "Clog Dance"
from "La Fille Mal Gardee", which must be another contender for "one-hit
wonder".
Bruch (Violin Concerto), Ponchielli (Dance of the Hours), Waldteufel
(Skater's Waltz) are possibly candidates?
Ross Howard
wrought:
Another candidate, because their one hit was so massive it's
overshadowed everything else he might have done, is Bizet.
(Chang chang chang-chang, cha-chang chang chang....)
And how about -- perhaps to a lesser extent -- Ravel?
(Doo, doodle-oodle-oodle-doo doody doo....)
--
Ross Howard
Sara Lorimer
> In article <1gkvtf8.136x3omaon6i0N%
> que.sara....@gmail.com>, que.sara....@gmail.com
> wrote...
> > Richard Maurer wrote:
> >
> > > "Elephant in the living room" is in the ballpark.
> > >
> > I've heard "elephant in the living room" only to mean "the thing we all
> > know about but won't discuss," e.g. Cousin John's alcoholism.
>
> Isn't that a "skeleton in the closet"?
No, because Aunt Mary might not know Cousin John had a skeleton in the
closet. The elephant in the living room, however, is right there
knocking over the houseplants.
> I understand "elephant in the living room" as the-big-thing-we-
> fail-to-notice-while-fussing-over-all-the-little-things.
--
SML
Dylan Nicholson
news:uscml0hsrqrbh193v...@4ax.com...
>
> Another candidate, because their one hit was so massive it's
> overshadowed everything else he might have done, is Bizet.
>
> (Chang chang chang-chang, cha-chang chang chang....)
Difference is that most classical music lovers will know at least a few
other pieces by Bizet (say The Pearl Fishers, or L'arlésienne).
Ravel is certainly a long way from being a one hit wonder - I have at
least 4or 5 CDs of his music (only one of which contains Bolero).
If we're talking composers for which the average man on the street
would likely to be able to only name one work, I could list at least
20 or 30.
mUs1Ka
You really are a bunch of philistines, innit.
Ross, I think you mean: "Chang chang cha-chang chang chang cha-chang
cha-chang", don't you?
And you missed out: Deee de deeee, dee de d dee dee.
--
Ray
Evan Kirshenbaum
> I understand "elephant in the living room" as the-big-thing-we-
> fail-to-notice-while-fussing-over-all-the-little-things.
That's the "dead moose on the table" in modern business parlance (at
least at HP). It's the big thing that everybody knows is what we
should really be discussing, but nobody wants to be the one to bring
up, at least partially because we know that there probably *isn't* a
good easy answer.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The vast majority of humans have
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |more than the average number of
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |legs.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
R H Draney
If that's what I think it is, he's about as far from a one-hit wonder as you can
get (Haydn and Mozart excluded, of course)....
A couple more candidates: Chabrier's "España", and Satie's "Gymnopedie"....
(Is it possible to induce instrumental STS?)...r
Arcadian Rises
>
>mUs1Ka filted:
>>>>>
>>>>> The one that comes to my mind is the overture to Ruslan and
>>>>> Ludmilla by Glinka. I've never heard anything else by him, not even
>>>>> the opera Ruslan and Ludmilla. Then there's Purcell's Trumpet
>>>>> Voluntary by Clarke,
>>>>
>>>> What about Albinoni? He's famous for his Adagio and not much else.
>>>> (The Allegro e non presto and Allegro from the same piece are pretty
>>>> good, though. Tasty.)
>>>
>>> Another candidate, because their one hit was so massive it's
>>> overshadowed everything else he might have done, is Bizet.
>>>
>>> (Chang chang chang-chang, cha-chang chang chang....)
>>>
>>> And how about -- perhaps to a lesser extent -- Ravel?
>>>
>>> (Doo, doodle-oodle-oodle-doo doody doo....)
>>
>>You really are a bunch of philistines, innit.
>>Ross, I think you mean: "Chang chang cha-chang chang chang cha-chang
>>cha-chang", don't you?
>>And you missed out: Deee de deeee, dee de d dee dee.
>
>If that's what I think it is, he's about as far from a one-hit wonder as you
>can
>get (Haydn and Mozart excluded, of course)....
>
>A couple more candidates: Chabrier's "España", and Satie's "Gymnopedie"....
Eduard Lalo's only concerto for violin "Symphonie espagnole".
Dylan Nicholson
news:20040929214252...@mb-m21.aol.com...
>
> Eduard Lalo's only concerto for violin "Symphonie espagnole".
Now you're pushing the limits of the word "hit" (don't get me wrong,
I like the piece, and have a recording, but it's hardly a "top 100 of
all time" sort of thing).
Arcadian Rises
>>
>> Eduard Lalo's only concerto for violin "Symphonie espagnole".
>
>Now you're pushing the limits of the word "hit" (don't get me wrong,
>I like the piece, and have a recording, but it's hardly a "top 100 of
>all time" sort of thing).
Sorry I was under the impression the topic was about composers known for only
one famous piece of work, like Dukas' Socerer's.
Richard Bollard
I don't think it is meant to be an exhaustive (or even canonical?)
collection.
Richard Bollard
<harve...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>On 29 Sep 2004, Tony Cooper wrote
>
>>> What does one call a co-inhabitant which unintentionally
>>> overwhelms its environment?
>>
>> DE781
>
>Ooo, that's good; that's really good...
Except that in this case it claims to be intentional.
Dylan Nicholson
there's loads of composers who are basically only known for one
work. It's the cases where
a) that one work is a truly famous work that almost anyone who made it
to high school knows (or at least knows of) but also
b) even most reasonably well-informed classical music lovers would be
struggling to name another work by
that are, to me anyway, the most interesting.
Ben Zimmer
>
> don groves wrote:
>
> > In article <1gkvtf8.136x3omaon6i0N%
> > que.sara....@gmail.com>, que.sara....@gmail.com
> > wrote...
> > > Richard Maurer wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Elephant in the living room" is in the ballpark.
> > > >
> > > I've heard "elephant in the living room" only to mean "the thing we all
> > > know about but won't discuss," e.g. Cousin John's alcoholism.
> >
> > Isn't that a "skeleton in the closet"?
>
> No, because Aunt Mary might not know Cousin John had a skeleton in the
> closet. The elephant in the living room, however, is right there
> knocking over the houseplants.
Quoting a post I wrote in a 2002 thread about the phrase:
It looks like the expression got popularized in self-help
circles by a children's book called "An Elephant in the
Living Room," by M.H. Typpo and J.M. Hastings (Compcare
Publications, 1984), which was designed to help children
cope with alcoholic parents. But the expression predates
that book. The Proquest database has the following quote
from a 1959 New York Times article about taxes for Long
Island schools: "Financing schools has become a problem
about equal to having an elephant in the living room.
It's so big you just can't ignore it."
Typpo and Hastings' book may have been inspired by
(plagiarized from?) an earlier children's book, "Beasts
and Nonsense", by Marie Hall Ets (Viking Press, 1952),
which also features an elephant in a child's living room.
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3CE96078...@midway.uchicago.edu
Roland Hutchinson
September 2004 18:18, Ross Howard wrote:
> Another candidate, because their one hit was so massive it's
> overshadowed everything else he might have done, is Bizet.
Like Orff, upon close examination he's actually at least a three-hit wonder,
adding:
- The Pearl Fishers (or at least "Oui, c'est elle...")
- L'Arlésienne (or at least the Farrandole from the second orchestral suite)
With the Symphony in C and Jeux d'enfants as close runners-up that would
sound familiar to most who recognize all of the above.
Other nominees for operatic one-hit wonders would include Ruggero
Leoncavallo and Englebert Humperdink.
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
Dylan Nicholson
news:2s1hd4F...@uni-berlin.de...
> In article <uscml0hsrqrbh193v...@4ax.com> on Wednesday 29
> September 2004 18:18, Ross Howard wrote:
>
> > Another candidate, because their one hit was so massive it's
> > overshadowed everything else he might have done, is Bizet.
>
> Like Orff, upon close examination he's actually at least a three-hit wonder,
> adding:
>
> - The Pearl Fishers (or at least "Oui, c'est elle...")
>
> - L'Arlésienne (or at least the Farrandole from the second orchestral suite)
>
met
anyone who was vaguely familiar with them, let alone had a recording.
I have heard one once on the radio.
Laura F Spira
"Carmina Perfecta" is pretty obscure but there are Orff pieces that are
probably quite familiar to people who don't know that they are Orff.
Music from his "Schulwerk" has been used in film soundtracks. One piece
which features, along with some lesser known Satie, in the soundtrack to
the film "Badlands" [1] was also used in a TV advert not long ago. I
have a recording of it but can't find it at the moment. It's rather
plinky-plinky and you'd be unlikely to guess that it was Orff.
[1] Starring Martin Sheen and Cissy Spacek - one of my all-time favourites.
--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)
Laura F Spira
>
> (Is it possible to induce instrumental STS?)...r
>
IME, yes. And for some tunes, it's even more pervasive than those with
words, especially when there are associated pictures - I've been seeing
Mickey Mouse ever since I spotted the thread title, so I thought I'd
venture in the hope of finding a counterweight...
Ross Howard
<wizo...@hotmail.com> wrought:
>"Ross Howard" <ggu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:uscml0hsrqrbh193v...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Another candidate, because their one hit was so massive it's
>> overshadowed everything else he might have done, is Bizet.
>>
>> (Chang chang chang-chang, cha-chang chang chang....)
>
>Difference is that most classical music lovers will know at least a few
>other pieces by Bizet (say The Pearl Fishers, or L'arlésienne).
True, but if I guessed that 98.5% of the royalties paid to his estate
were for *Carmen*, I wouldn't be far off the mark, would I?
>Ravel is certainly a long way from being a one hit wonder - I have at
>least 4or 5 CDs of his music (only one of which contains Bolero).
But, ditto. Surely without *Carmen* and the *Bolero* they'd be far,
far less well known -- more in the Fauré/Satié-led second division
than up there in the Champions League.
>
>If we're talking composers for which the average man on the street
>would likely to be able to only name one work, I could list at least
>20 or 30.
I think you overestimate the average man in the street, for whom Bizet
is a fiendish French bathroom fixture and Ravel what happens to a ball
of string.
--
Ross Howard
Qp10qp
>of?]
>>Difference is that most classical music lovers will know at least a few
>>other pieces by Bizet (say The Pearl Fishers, or L'arlésienne).
>
>True, but if I guessed that 98.5% of the royalties paid to his estate
>were for *Carmen*, I wouldn't be far off the mark, would I?
>
>>Ravel is certainly a long way from being a one hit wonder - I have at
>>least 4or 5 CDs of his music (only one of which contains Bolero).
>
>But, ditto. Surely without *Carmen* and the *Bolero* they'd be far,
>far less well known -- more in the Fauré/Satié-led second division
>than up there in the Champions League.
>>
>>If we're talking composers for which the average man on the street
>>would likely to be able to only name one work, I could list at least
>>20 or 30.
For me, an opera is like an album, and might contain more than one hit, as
"Carmen" does. A one-hit opera wonder would be something like the Flower Song
from Lakmé by Delibes, as heard on the British Airways advert.
Music lovers certainly know more than one work by Ravel (surely the one-hit
test applies when even buffs can think of only one piece). In any case, Ravel
has a second lollipop in "Pavane Pour Une Enfante Defunte", does he not?
*
Another one-hit wonder came to me in bed last night (yes, I am a sad case):
"Rule Britannia" by Thomas Arne. I've been singing it all morning, which is bad
news, partly because I can't stand it and partly because I only know the first
couple of lines and have to keep starting again.
Peasemarch
Mike Lyle
> Dylan Nicholson wrote:
>> "Roland Hutchinson" <my.sp...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:2s1hd4F...@uni-berlin.de...
>>
>>> In article <uscml0hsrqrbh193v...@4ax.com> on
>>> Wednesday 29 September 2004 18:18, Ross Howard wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Another candidate, because their one hit was so massive it's
>>>> overshadowed everything else he might have done, is Bizet.
>>>
>>> Like Orff, upon close examination he's actually at least a
>>> three-hit wonder, adding:
>>>
>>> - The Pearl Fishers (or at least "Oui, c'est elle...")
>>>
>>> - L'Arlésienne (or at least the Farrandole from the second
>>> orchestral suite)
>>>
>>
>> I don't see how you can compare those to Orff's lesser known
works.
>> I've never met
>> anyone who was vaguely familiar with them, let alone had a
recording.
>> I have heard one once on the radio.
>>
>>
>
> "Carmina Perfecta" is pretty obscure but there are Orff pieces that
> are probably quite familiar to people who don't know that they are
Nobody's mentioned Allegri's _Miserere_, which gains points by
probably not having been by Allegri.
And of course I'm not the first to have found John Cage's _4'33"_
going round in my head all morning.
Mike.
Roland Hutchinson
06:54, Mike Lyle wrote:
> And of course I'm not the first to have found John Cage's _4'33"_
> going round in my head all morning.
The single, or the extended-play?
Mike Lyle
> In article <2s2700F...@uni-berlin.de> on Thursday 30 September
> 2004 06:54, Mike Lyle wrote:
>
>> And of course I'm not the first to have found John Cage's _4'33"_
>> going round in my head all morning.
>
> The single, or the extended-play?
It's the original version, conducted by the composer: I can always
tell.
Mike.
Ray Heindl
> What about Albinoni? He's famous for his Adagio and not much else.
> (The Allegro e non presto and Allegro from the same piece are
> pretty good, though. Tasty.)
When I think of one-hit-wonders, Ferde Grofé and the Grand Canyon Suite
always come to mind. I can't for the life of me think of any other
work by him.
--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply to: xvortr...@yaxhoo.com)
Laura F Spira
> Mickwick <mick...@use.reply.to> wrote:
>
>
>>What about Albinoni? He's famous for his Adagio and not much else.
>>(The Allegro e non presto and Allegro from the same piece are
>>pretty good, though. Tasty.)
>
>
> When I think of one-hit-wonders, Ferde Grofé and the Grand Canyon Suite
> always come to mind. I can't for the life of me think of any other
> work by him.
Now I shall hear those wretched mules clip-clopping for hours. I *knew*
I shouldn't have ventured near this thread.
Mike Lyle
> In article <415C77AA...@DRAGONspira.fsbusiness.co.uk> on
> Thursday 30 September 2004 17:16, Laura F Spira wrote:
>
>> Ray Heindl wrote:
[...]
>>> When I think of one-hit-wonders, Ferde Grofé and the Grand Canyon
>>> Suite always come to mind. I can't for the life of me think of
any
>>> other work by him.
>>
>> Now I shall hear those wretched mules clip-clopping for hours. I
>> *knew* I shouldn't have ventured near this thread.
>
> which he contributed a number of ideas differing from Gershwin's
> initial ones. (Apparently the opening clarinet gliss isn't due to
> either one of them, but to the clarinetist who gave the first
> performance!)
[...]
Worse -- and I think this _may_ have been Gershwin -- it was
initially in that vile "laughing clarinet" style: I've heard it that
way, and it was embarrassing.
Mike.
Paul Wolff
<dado...@spamcop.net> writes
>
>A couple more candidates: Chabrier's "España", and Satie's
>"Gymnopedie"....
Satie's 'Parade' is much more fun. Especially the typewriter - and do I
remember a Swannee whistle?
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo!
Robert Bannister
>>Subject: Re: Sorcerer's Apprentice [WAS: What metaphor am I trying to think
>>of?]
>>From: "Dylan Nicholson" wizo...@hotmail.com
>
>
>>One hit wonders in the Classical genre aren't quite as common as in
>>the popular music world, but there's still a reasonable number of
>>them - Orff & Pachelbel probably being the two other most obvious
>>examples. Which is not to say none of their other music is
>>worth listening to, but they will forever be remembered almost
>>exclusively for a single work.
>
>
> The one that comes to my mind is the overture to Ruslan and Ludmilla by Glinka.
> I've never heard anything else by him, not even the opera Ruslan and Ludmilla.
> Then there's Purcell's Trumpet Voluntary by Clarke,
I've never actually heard any other music by Offenbach apart from
Orpheus in the Underworld, and yet, he's reasonably well known.
--
Rob Bannister
Roland Hutchinson
20:55, Robert Bannister wrote:
> I've never actually heard any other music by Offenbach apart from
> Orpheus in the Underworld, and yet, he's reasonably well known.
Pshaw; you've also heard the barcarolle from Tales of Hoffman.
Peter Moylan
>Another one-hit wonder came to me in bed last night (yes, I am a sad case):
>"Rule Britannia" by Thomas Arne. I've been singing it all morning, which is bad
>news, partly because I can't stand it and partly because I only know the first
>couple of lines and have to keep starting again.
Rule Brittania,
Marmalade and jam.
I wouldn't give you tuppence for your old watch-chain
'Cause Enery the eighth I am.
Someone else will have to supply the remaining verses.
--
Peter Moylan peter at ee dot newcastle dot edu dot au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)
Laura F Spira
> In article <2s3o3sF...@uni-berlin.de> on Thursday 30 September 2004
> 20:55, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
>
>>I've never actually heard any other music by Offenbach apart from
>>Orpheus in the Underworld, and yet, he's reasonably well known.
>
>
> Pshaw; you've also heard the barcarolle from Tales of Hoffman.
>
Possibly even the Presley version.
Mickwick
>On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:10:47 +0100, Mickwick <mick...@use.reply.to>
>>What about Albinoni? He's famous for his Adagio and not much else. (The
>>Allegro e non presto and Allegro from the same piece are pretty good,
>>though. Tasty.)
I got a bit confused there. The tasty allegros are from Albinoni's oboe
concerto in D minor - and the *really* tasty piece, far tastier than the
insipid morgue maundering of the famous allegro, is the allegro from
that concerto ...
>Another candidate, because their one hit was so massive it's
>overshadowed everything else he might have done, is Bizet.
>
>(Chang chang chang-chang, cha-chang chang chang....)
>
>And how about -- perhaps to a lesser extent -- Ravel?
>
>(Doo, doodle-oodle-oodle-doo doody doo....)
... which goes, Neeeeee neeeeeee neeeeaaaaah, and so on.
--
Mickwick
Mickwick
>I got a bit confused there. The tasty allegros are from Albinoni's oboe
>concerto in D minor - and the *really* tasty piece, far tastier than
>the insipid morgue maundering of the famous allegro,
adagio
> is the allegro from that concerto ...
adagio
adagieee
--
Mickwick
Donna Richoux
> In article <2s3o3sF...@uni-berlin.de> on Thursday 30 September 2004
> 20:55, Robert Bannister wrote:
>
> > I've never actually heard any other music by Offenbach apart from
> > Orpheus in the Underworld, and yet, he's reasonably well known.
>
> Pshaw; you've also heard the barcarolle from Tales of Hoffman.
Ba-carole from Ta-ales of Hoffman
By-y-y Off-en-bach -- toot! toot!
Right up there with "Oh, Torador-o" and "Uncle John Has Come Home."
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Mike Lyle
I think Albinoni's the Adagio: you're the Adagiee.
Mike.
Mike Lyle
Suppé's Light Cavalry Overture. I once actually listened to that
seriously and in full, with a full load of booze aboard. I thought it
was actually quite a moving piece (there are slow bits), so I've
never dared listen to it sober for fear of breaking the spell.
Mike.
Laura F Spira
I think it's a great shame that one rarely hears that whole piece which
I rather like.
Obaue: This discussion prompted me to look up the derivation of
"hackneyed" but the OED isn't very helpful as far as I can see.