When do actresses become actors?
OtiGoji
Otius Gojius
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information about the poster.
CyberCypher
news:20030529041729...@mb-m15.aol.com:
Actors are people of both sexes who act, and it is perfectly normal
these days for people to say "She is a talented actor" as well as "She
is a talented actress". This can be compared to the equivalent forms
for the names "lawyer", "doctor", "soldier", and "nurse", among many
others.
I don't know if the Academy Awards categories are "Best performance by
a female" or "Best performance by an actress" in a leading/supporting
role, etc.
AWILLIS957
>From: oti...@aol.comSPAMNOT (OtiGoji
"Actress" is still acceptable in the press and on TV, and female actors do not
usually take offence at it. If given the choice, they might prefer "actor", to
judge from the ones I've worked with.
Peasemarch.
Padraig Breathnach
>oti...@aol.comSPAMNOT (OtiGoji) burbled
>news:20030529041729...@mb-m15.aol.com:
>
>> Are actor and actress interchangeable, at least for the female
>> gender?
>>
>Actors are people of both sexes who act, and it is perfectly normal
>these days for people to say "She is a talented actor" as well as "She
>is a talented actress".
True. But if she is not talented, and particularly if she is
pulchritudinous, she is an actress.
PB
John Dean
Hence the Hollywood acronym MAW - Model Actress Whatever
--
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply
John Dean
The most recent Awards were ''Performance by an actress in a leading role ''
Used to be ''Best Actress in a Leading Role''
dcw
Padraig Breathnach <padr...@iol.ie> wrote:
>CyberCypher <fra...@seed.net.tw> wrote:
>>Actors are people of both sexes who act, and it is perfectly normal
>>these days for people to say "She is a talented actor" as well as "She
>>is a talented actress".
>
>True. But if she is not talented, and particularly if she is
>pulchritudinous, she is an actress.
And only actresses talk to bishops.
David
MC
"John Dean" <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
> >>> Are actor and actress interchangeable, at least for the female
> >>> gender?
> >>>
> >> Actors are people of both sexes who act, and it is perfectly normal
> >> these days for people to say "She is a talented actor" as well as
> >> "She is a talented actress".
> >
> > True. But if she is not talented, and particularly if she is
> > pulchritudinous, she is an actress.
> >
> > PB
>
> Hence the Hollywood acronym MAW - Model Actress Whatever
My favourite Hollywood acronym is MEGO.
Context: reading a new script.
Contraction of My Eyes Glazed Over
MC
> >True. But if she is not talented, and particularly if she is
> >pulchritudinous, she is an actress.
>
> And only actresses talk to bishops.
I thought they genuflected to bishops rather than talked to them.
Don Phillipson
news:20030529041729...@mb-m15.aol.com...
> Are actor and actress interchangeable, at least for the female gender?
These two words are grammatically equivalent
but sociologically different.
The English language generated 200 or 300
years ago special words for certain practitioners
who happened to be female, e.g. actress, poetess,
sculptress. No such words were generated for
numerous other occupations, e.g. doctor, politician,
engineer, chemist, teacher. (In some times and
places people spoke about teacheresses, etc. but
these coinages did not survive.)
Since approx. 1950 the use of special words for
women in such occupations has gone out of
fashion (and has become politically loaded, in
the eyes of English speakers. This political
loading appears to be independent of the movement
to suppress "men" in words, cf. chairperson for chairman.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
dphillipson[at]trytel.com
Simon R. Hughes
Never cross a bishop!
--
Simon R. Hughes / <!-- Kill "Kenny" for email. -->
Evan Kirshenbaum
> I don't know if the Academy Awards categories are "Best performance by
> a female" or "Best performance by an actress" in a leading/supporting
> role, etc.
The Academy Awards ("Oscars"), given by the Academy of Motion Picture
Arts and Sciences, have awards for "Performance by an actress in a
leading/supporting role". The Emmy Awards, given by the Academy of
Television Arts and Sciences, have awards for "Outstanding Lead/
Supporting Actress in a Comedy/Drama/Mini Series"[1]. The Tony
Awards, given by the League of American Theaters and Producers and the
American Theater Wing, have awards for Best Performance by a
Leading/Featured Actress in a Play/Musical".
The SAG Awards, given by the Screen Actors Guild, on the other hand,
have "Outstanding Performance by a Female Actor in a Leading/
Supporting Role".
[1] Okay, it's "Comedy Series"/"Drama Series"/"Miniseries or Movie".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |When all else fails, give the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |customer what they ask for. This
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |is strong medicine and rarely needs
|to be repeated.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
R F
> oti...@aol.comSPAMNOT (OtiGoji) burbled
> news:20030529041729...@mb-m15.aol.com:
>
> > Are actor and actress interchangeable, at least for the female
> > gender?
> >
> > Otius Gojius
> > Text added to the bottom of an article or e-mail to give the
> > reader more information about the poster.
>
> Actors are people of both sexes who act, and it is perfectly normal
> these days for people to say "She is a talented actor" as well as "She
> is a talented actress". This can be compared to the equivalent forms
> for the names "lawyer", "doctor", "soldier", and "nurse", among many
> others.
Using "actor" for an identified (non-general) female actor still sounds
"off" to me. In my previous sentence, it seems okay, because the usage
is "general". Clearly a lot of people are trying to get usage to
change, but I'm not altogether sure it's really working at the
grass-roots level.
> I don't know if the Academy Awards categories are "Best performance by
> a female" or "Best performance by an actress" in a leading/supporting
> role, etc.
I think they're still using "actress".
Gopi Sundaram
> Are actor and actress interchangeable, at least for the female gender?
I have noticed a tendency among actresses to refer to themselves as
actors. I suppose it's part of the trend towards gender-neutrality in
language.
I personally object to this trend. The day I will call actresses
"actors" is the day women are equally likely to be offerred male
characters to play, and are as likely to accept them. That is
gender-neutrality.
AWILLIS957
>From: Gopi Sundaram gop...@cs.sc.edu
>
>I have noticed a tendency among actresses to refer to themselves as
>actors. I suppose it's part of the trend towards gender-neutrality in
>language.
>
>I personally object to this trend. The day I will call actresses
>"actors" is the day women are equally likely to be offerred male
>characters to play, and are as likely to accept them. That is
>gender-neutrality.
Surely it is up to actresses what they refer to themselves as? That is one
question - and a good few them prefer to call themselves "actors", particularly
within the profession. The other question is what they are to be called in the
press, at awards ceremonies, and by the general public, and those purposes they
will generally be called "actresses", whether they like it or not.
It is quite normal for people within a trade to call themselves something
different from what the public calls them. For example, waste collectors might
be called "dustmen" by the public. Assistant referees tend to be called
"linesmen" by the public. And so on.
Peasemarch.
Skitt
> CyberCypher writes:
>> I don't know if the Academy Awards categories are "Best performance
>> by a female" or "Best performance by an actress" in a
>> leading/supporting role, etc.
>
> The Academy Awards ("Oscars"), given by the Academy of Motion Picture
> Arts and Sciences, have awards for "Performance by an actress in a
> leading/supporting role". The Emmy Awards, given by the Academy of
> Television Arts and Sciences, have awards for "Outstanding Lead/
> Supporting Actress in a Comedy/Drama/Mini Series"[1]. The Tony
> Awards, given by the League of American Theaters and Producers and the
> American Theater Wing, have awards for Best Performance by a
> Leading/Featured Actress in a Play/Musical".
>
> The SAG Awards, given by the Screen Actors Guild, on the other hand,
> have "Outstanding Performance by a Female Actor in a Leading/
> Supporting Role".
>
> [1] Okay, it's "Comedy Series"/"Drama Series"/"Miniseries or Movie".
I see. Does that mean that the women who call themselves "actor" are
excluded from the above categories and have to compete in the men's
categories? Just wondering -- did the award givers all of a sudden realize
that "Houston, we have a problem"?
--
Skitt (in SF Bay Area) http://www.geocities.com/opus731/
I speak English well -- I learn it from a book!
-- Manuel (Fawlty Towers)
MC
awill...@aol.com (AWILLIS957) wrote:
Here in Canuckistan, the mullahs who control the state media (the CBC)
have decreed that the words "fisherman" and "fishermen" are somehow
offensive to the ears of loyal Canuckistanis. I presume it's because the
terms don't allow for the possibility that some of those grizzled,
brawny sons o' the sea might actually be grizzled, brawny daughters o'
the sea.
So what, you might ask, are the preferred terms -- "fisherperson" and
"fisherpersons"? Nope. It's "fisher and fishers." Which is decidedly
silly, but not too objectionable, I suppose. But it does lead to some
confusion when there are mink-like creatures called "fishers" already
roaming the woods not too far from the coast of Canuckistan.
Mike Lyle
> Thus Spake MC:
> > In article <123...@myrtle.ukc.ac.uk>, D.C....@ukc.ac.uk (dcw) wrote:
> >
> > > >True. But if she is not talented, and particularly if she is
> > > >pulchritudinous, she is an actress.
> > >
> > > And only actresses talk to bishops.
> >
> > I thought they genuflected to bishops rather than talked to them.
>
> Never cross a bishop!
But you may kiss his ring.
Mike.
R F
> So what, you might ask, are the preferred terms -- "fisherperson" and
> "fisherpersons"? Nope. It's "fisher and fishers." Which is decidedly
> silly, but not too objectionable, I suppose.
Sounds biblical to me, maybe with a touch of the occult.
Evan Kirshenbaum
No, it just means that the industry considers "actress" and "female
actor" synonymous (and "actor" when contrasted with "actress"
synonymous with "male actor"), and different groups chose different
wording. It's interesting that the one group that consists only of
performers chooses to use "male/female actor". I missed the awards
given by Actors' Equity, the stage equivalent of the Screen Actors
Guild. They also appear to use "male/female actor", as in
The Joe A. Callaway Awards
These awards were established in 1989 to honor a male and a female
actor for the best performance in a classical play in the New York
metropolitan area, selected by a panel of critics.
The Clarence Derwent Awards
Established in 1945, the Clarence Derwent Award is a crystal
plaque and $1,000 to a male and a female actor for the best
dramatic performance in a supporting role, as selected by a
committee organized under the auspices of Actors' Equity.
http://www.actorsequity.org/equityawards/index.html
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Voting in the House of
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |Representatives is done by means of a
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |little plastic card with a magnetic
|strip on the back--like a VISA card,
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |but with no, that is, absolutely
(650)857-7572 |*no*, spending limit.
| P.J. O'Rourke
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
rzed
Of course, both SAG and Actors' Equity use the term "Actor" in their
name; that almost forces them to use "female actor" to distinguish
between the sexes, or face the problem of justifying their
organization's chosen name. The others don't have that constraint.
--
rzed
R H Draney
>
>I personally object to this trend. The day I will call actresses
>"actors" is the day women are equally likely to be offerred male
>characters to play, and are as likely to accept them. That is
>gender-neutrality.
Linda Hunt won her Oscar for "Best Supporting Actress", playing a male
character..."equally likely" is already on the horizon....r
Charles Riggs
I guess that leaves Audrey Hepburn out.
John Smith
> <...>
> So what, you might ask, are the preferred terms -- "fisherperson" and
> "fisherpersons"? Nope. It's "fisher and fishers." Which is decidedly
> silly, but not too objectionable, I suppose. But it does lead to some
> confusion when there are mink-like creatures called "fishers" already
> roaming the woods not too far from the coast of Canuckistan.
But "fisher" has a masculine ending! A *female* who fishes is a
*fishress*.
Boy did they screw up! Ha ha! I bet they're embarrassed.
\\P. Schultz
Mike Lyle
OED1 says "fisher" is archaic, which I would dispute. It seems to me
to be the norm in Scotland, and not unusual in England and Wales. A
fortiori, it isn't even a bit silly.
I don't think "-er" can be treated in and of itself as a masculine
ending; and "fisheress" has only two examples in OED1, both from the
17C, and one of them a dictionary entry explaining *pescheresse*. I
like the point as a giggle, but it won't stand up to a glance at
analogies from "painter", "walker", rider", etc.
Mike.
John Smith
>
> I don't think "-er" can be treated in and of itself as a masculine
> ending; and "fisheress" has only two examples in OED1, both from the
> 17C, and one of them a dictionary entry explaining *pescheresse*. I
> like the point as a giggle, but it won't stand up to a glance at
> analogies from "painter", "walker", rider", etc.
I think in a legal document she would be called a "fishrix".
\\P. Schultz
MC
John Smith <jsm...@company.com> wrote:
> I think in a legal document she would be called a "fishrix".
And if there,s more than one, presumably they would be "fishrices"
mickwick
> John Smith <jsm...@company.com> wrote:
>> I think in a legal document she would be called a "fishrix".
>
>And if there,s more than one, presumably they would be "fishrices"
Aka sushi.
--
Mickwick
MC
mickwick <mick...@use.reply.to> wrote:
> >> I think in a legal document she would be called a "fishrix".
> >
> >And if there,s more than one, presumably they would be "fishrices"
>
> Aka sushi.
If you're also having the beef teriyaki, make sure you have some rice
wine, because...
....cow and sake make the good times roll.
Ross Howard
<kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
What leaps out at me is that they presumably want to use "actor" for
both males and females because talent knows know gender blah blah. And
then they go and spoil it all [(c) Frank and Nancy] by separating all
their awards according by the gender of the actors. Why not have "Best
Performance by a Short/Tall Actor in a Supporting Role"? Or simply
just one Best Acting Performance award, regardless of whether it was a
man or woman? After all, it's only the acting that is divided this way
-- there's no "Best Editing/Direction/Wardrobe/Foley by a Male/Female
Editor/Director/Costume Designer/Foley Artist, so what's so special
about what happens to be between an actron's legs?
We should be grateful they don't give awards to assistant electricians
-- "Best Best Young Person" doesn't sound that great.
Ross Howard
--------------------
(Kick ass for e-mail)
John Smith
> <...> Why not have "Best
> Performance by a Short/Tall Actor in a Supporting Role"? <...>
In a way, the
"best actor / best *supporting* actor"
awards for each sex are really, actually
"best good-looking actor / best funny-looking actor".
But they say it the first way because they can't say it the second way.
\\P. Schultz
mickwick
>If you're also having the beef teriyaki, make sure you have some rice
>wine, because...
>
>
>
>....cow and sake make the good times roll.
Er ...
Er .....
Kawasaki?
(If it is: I don't think I've ever seen a slogan for a motorcycle in the
UK. But that might just be me.)
--
Mickwick
mickwick
>We should be grateful they don't give awards to assistant electricians
>-- "Best Best Young Person" doesn't sound that great.
No, but 'Best Lady Boy' might enliven the evening (especially for Hilary
Swank).
--
Mickwick
MC
mickwick <mick...@use.reply.to> wrote:
> >We should be grateful they don't give awards to assistant electricians
> >-- "Best Best Young Person" doesn't sound that great.
>
> No, but 'Best Lady Boy' might enliven the evening (especially for Hilary
> Swank).
Isn't that just a young girly man?
MC
mickwick <mick...@use.reply.to> wrote:
> >If you're also having the beef teriyaki, make sure you have some rice
> >wine, because...
> >
> >
> >
> >....cow and sake make the good times roll.
>
> Er ...
>
> Er .....
>
> Kawasaki?
>
> (If it is: I don't think I've ever seen a slogan for a motorcycle in the
> UK. But that might just be me.)
Aaaah... I wondered if it might dro into a black hole on the other side
of the pond. Indeed. Kawasaki. A well known ad campaign over 'ere.
Kawasaki makes (lets?) the good times roll.
mickwick
> mickwick <mick...@use.reply.to> wrote:
>> No, but 'Best Lady Boy' might enliven the evening (especially for Hilary
^ shoulda been Best Best
>> Swank).
>
>Isn't that just a young girly man?
Up to a point.
--
Mickwick
Mike Lyle
[...]
>
> We should be grateful they don't give awards to assistant electricians
> -- "Best Best Young Person" doesn't sound that great.
They could have "Most Promising Best Young Person", which would give
us lots of handy ambiguities.
"Most (or Least) Senile Gaffer"? That would get it taped.
Mike.
Aaron J. Dinkin
> But "fisher" has a masculine ending! A *female* who fishes is a
> *fishress*.
Naw! "Fishster"!
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
MC
"Aaron J. Dinkin" <a...@post.harvard.edu> wrote:
> > But "fisher" has a masculine ending! A *female* who fishes is a
> > *fishress*.
>
> Naw! "Fishster"!
A "fisherenne" surely?
rzed
A fishwife.
--
rzed
MC
"rzed" <Dick....@lexisnexis.com> wrote:
> >>> But "fisher" has a masculine ending! A *female* who fishes is a
> >>> *fishress*.
> >>
> >> Naw! "Fishster"!
> >
> > A "fisherenne" surely?
>
> A fishwife.
>
Perfect.
Aaron J. Dinkin
Sounds like a kind of ale.
R F
Or someone who fishes in a lake for leeches.