Talk/talking

[GG]

"He could hear the leader and his wife talk in the kitchen ..."

Should this be 'talking'?

Thanks.

[Dr Peter Young]

On 5 Jan 2011 GG <no_spa...@videotron.ca> wrote:

> "He could hear the leader and his wife talk in the kitchen ..."

> Should this be 'talking'?

Either would sound right to me, but "talking" might be considered more
correct.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk

[Derek Turner]

(BrE) The former would be habitual: He could [always] hear
The latter would mean 'at this moment'.

[Stan Brown]

On Wed, 05 Jan 2011 10:01:52 -0500, GG wrote:
>

> "He could hear the leader and his wife talk in the kitchen ..."
>
> Should this be 'talking'?

Probably but not necessarily. As usual, if you want a better answer
you need to provide context.

--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Shikata ga nai...

[Pat Durkin]

"GG" <no_spa...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:ig2157$4s4$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> "He could hear the leader and his wife talk in the kitchen ..."
>
> Should this be 'talking'?

Both the infinitive and the gerund can be used as nouns.

[Fred]

It could also mean in the past. 'He could [often] hear the leader and his
wife talking...'

[John Lawler]

On Jan 5, 10:13 am, "Pat Durkin" <durki...@msn.com> wrote:
> "GG" <no_spam_h...@videotron.ca> wrote in message

>
> news:ig2157$4s4$1...@speranza.aioe.org...> "He could hear the leader and his wife talk in the kitchen ..."
>
> > Should this be 'talking'?
>
> Both the infinitive and the gerund can be used as nouns.

More relevantly, both infinitive complement and gerund complement
may be used as object of non-agentive sense verbs: hear and see
are the most common with complements, but feel, smell, and taste
are also possible, if rare. For more on complement clauses, see
http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue/complmnt.html

I saw him leave the room. (infinitive complement)
I saw him leaving the room. (gerund complement)

I heard him sing that song.
I heard him singing that song.

Both are completely correct and grammatical, and there
is no difference in meaning (if one is true, so is the other).

But there is a slight, optional, pragmatic difference, as there
almost always is with two competing constructions without
semantic difference. The infinitive is more likely than the
gerund to invite the inference of completion -- i.e, I saw his
complete leave-taking, I heard his complete rendition of the
song, whereas the gerund might invite the inference of
non-completion, if it be relevant -- I heard a snatch of his
singing, I caught a glimpse of his leaving.

But these inferences are *not* part of the meaning, and are
not present in every (or even most) uses of these complements.

Sense verbs are very complex and feature in many idioms
and specialized constructions. For some details, see
Rogers, Andy. 1971. 'Three kinds of physical perception verbs'
Papers from the. Seventh Regional Meeting of the Chicago
Linguistics Society pp. 206–222.

-John Lawler http://www.umich.edu/~jlawler/aue
"But do we know how to welcome into our mother
tongue the distant echoes that reverberate in the
hollow centers of words? When reading words,
we see them and no longer hear them."
-- Gaston Bachelard

[GG]

John Lawler wrote:
> On Jan 5, 10:13 am, "Pat Durkin" <durki...@msn.com> wrote:

[snip]

Beautiful. Thanks, everybody.

[John Holmes]

GG wrote:
> "He could hear the leader and his wife talk in the kitchen ..."
>
> Should this be 'talking'?

Not necessarily; it depends on context and what shade of meaning you
want.

--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au