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Iceland replaces Newcastle-upon-Tyne
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Guy Barry
Nov 9, 2012, 2:10:30 AM11/9/12
to
I wanted to add something to this thread, but it's expired from my news
server and Google Groups won't let me reply to messages that far back:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usage.english/msg/dd1654831702f873
> "It's been revealed that the UK Border Agency has a backlog of cases
> equivalent to the population of Newcastle-upon-Tyne." (BBC Radio 4
> 8am news bulletin)
I just wanted to report that it's now apparently equivalent to the
population of Iceland. I'm sure that will be a lot more helpful in allowing
people to make comparisons.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20252160
--
Guy Barry
server and Google Groups won't let me reply to messages that far back:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usage.english/msg/dd1654831702f873
> "It's been revealed that the UK Border Agency has a backlog of cases
> equivalent to the population of Newcastle-upon-Tyne." (BBC Radio 4
> 8am news bulletin)
I just wanted to report that it's now apparently equivalent to the
population of Iceland. I'm sure that will be a lot more helpful in allowing
people to make comparisons.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20252160
--
Guy Barry
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Nov 9, 2012, 3:52:23 AM11/9/12
to
half the population of Wyoming.
--
athel
jgharston
Nov 9, 2012, 5:06:31 AM11/9/12
to
Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >> "It's been revealed that the UK Border Agency has a backlog of cases
> >> equivalent to the population of Newcastle-upon-Tyne."
>
> >> "It's been revealed that the UK Border Agency has a backlog of cases
> >> equivalent to the population of Newcastle-upon-Tyne."
>
> > I just wanted to report that it's now apparently equivalent to the
> > population of Iceland.
>
> > population of Iceland.
>
> I think our American friends would prefer to say that it's more than
> half the population of Wyoming.
But, more importantly, how many Waleseseses is that?
> half the population of Wyoming.
JGH
Paul Wolff
Nov 9, 2012, 5:30:28 AM11/9/12
to
In message
<863f3c19-d866-42a4...@s14g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
jgharston <j...@arcade.demon.co.uk> writes
I want to know how many Olympic-sized swimming pools they could be
packed into sardine-wise.
--
Paul
<863f3c19-d866-42a4...@s14g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
jgharston <j...@arcade.demon.co.uk> writes
packed into sardine-wise.
--
Paul
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Nov 9, 2012, 8:23:24 AM11/9/12
to
However, how many of us have any idea of the populations of Wales,
Newcastle-upon-Tyne or Iceland without looking them up? Americans, on
the other hand, seem to make these comparisons quite often, and,
especially in November of an even-numbered year, tend to be more or
less aware of what the population of each state is.
> --
athel
Guy Barry
Nov 9, 2012, 8:59:29 AM11/9/12
to
"Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
news:ag4eb7...@mid.individual.net...
> However, how many of us have any idea of the populations of Wales,
> Newcastle-upon-Tyne or Iceland without looking them up?
morning, which was 302,000. Quite how telling us that it was almost the
population of Iceland added any useful information I'm not sure.
(Incidentally, Wikipedia puts the population at 320,000, so maybe there's a
little way to go yet.)
--
Guy Barry
tony cooper
Nov 9, 2012, 10:06:11 AM11/9/12
to
the backlogged cases end-to-end from here to there or around that.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter Young
Nov 9, 2012, 10:48:05 AM11/9/12
to
it Harvard?) Prom were laid end-to-end, I wouldn't be surprised".
Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Garrett Wollman
Nov 9, 2012, 11:55:19 AM11/9/12
to
In article <ag4eb7...@mid.individual.net>,
approximate-order-of-magnitude population of a "small state" (also
approximately equal to a congressional district), which these days is
about 600,000. There are three to choose from. A generic "city" is a
much more difficult task because of the different ways local
populations can be measured and also the differences in local
government structure that result is lots of small cities in some
places and fewer very large cities elsewhere.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Athel Cornish-Bowden <athe...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>However, how many of us have any idea of the populations of Wales,
>Newcastle-upon-Tyne or Iceland without looking them up? Americans, on
>the other hand, seem to make these comparisons quite often, and,
>especially in November of an even-numbered year, tend to be more or
>less aware of what the population of each state is.
I think, more accurately, that educated Americans are aware of the
>However, how many of us have any idea of the populations of Wales,
>Newcastle-upon-Tyne or Iceland without looking them up? Americans, on
>the other hand, seem to make these comparisons quite often, and,
>especially in November of an even-numbered year, tend to be more or
>less aware of what the population of each state is.
approximate-order-of-magnitude population of a "small state" (also
approximately equal to a congressional district), which these days is
about 600,000. There are three to choose from. A generic "city" is a
much more difficult task because of the different ways local
populations can be measured and also the differences in local
government structure that result is lots of small cities in some
places and fewer very large cities elsewhere.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Whiskers
Nov 9, 2012, 3:14:35 PM11/9/12
to
impression that everyone in Iceland had moved to Newcastle, illegally.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Curlytop
Nov 9, 2012, 3:20:42 PM11/9/12
to
Athel Cornish-Bowden set the following eddies spiralling through the
space-time continuum:
> However, how many of us have any idea of the populations of Wales,
You don't need the whole of Wales. Cardiff on its own is sufficient to
exceed the population of Iceland.
> especially in November of an even-numbered year, tend to be more or
> less aware of what the population of each state is.
I am aware of some political shenanigans that goes on in November of each
year that is a multiple of 4, but what happens in November of "first-order
even" years e.g. 2014?
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
space-time continuum:
> However, how many of us have any idea of the populations of Wales,
exceed the population of Iceland.
> especially in November of an even-numbered year, tend to be more or
> less aware of what the population of each state is.
year that is a multiple of 4, but what happens in November of "first-order
even" years e.g. 2014?
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
James Silverton
Nov 9, 2012, 3:27:17 PM11/9/12
to
On 11/9/2012 3:20 PM, Curlytop wrote:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden set the following eddies spiralling through the
> space-time continuum:
>
>> However, how many of us have any idea of the populations of Wales,
> You don't need the whole of Wales. Cardiff on its own is sufficient to
> exceed the population of Iceland.
>
>> especially in November of an even-numbered year, tend to be more or
>> less aware of what the population of each state is.
> I am aware of some political shenanigans that goes on in November of each
> year that is a multiple of 4, but what happens in November of "first-order
> even" years e.g. 2014?
The whole thing seems unnecessary; both Newcastle and Iceland have
> Athel Cornish-Bowden set the following eddies spiralling through the
> space-time continuum:
>
>> However, how many of us have any idea of the populations of Wales,
> You don't need the whole of Wales. Cardiff on its own is sufficient to
> exceed the population of Iceland.
>
>> especially in November of an even-numbered year, tend to be more or
>> less aware of what the population of each state is.
> I am aware of some political shenanigans that goes on in November of each
> year that is a multiple of 4, but what happens in November of "first-order
> even" years e.g. 2014?
populations of roughly 300,000.
I admit that I was a little surprised at how small is Iceland's
population so I guess there has been some improvement in my knowledge.
--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)
Extraneous "not" in Reply To.
James Silverton
Nov 9, 2012, 3:37:59 PM11/9/12
to
Newcastle if you omit the "upon-Tyne". Newcastle, Australia is somewhat
larger than old Newcastle with a population of 460,000.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Nov 9, 2012, 3:44:35 PM11/9/12
to
On 2012-11-09 20:20:42 +0000, Curlytop said:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden set the following eddies spiralling through the
> space-time continuum:
>
>> However, how many of us have any idea of the populations of Wales,
> You don't need the whole of Wales. Cardiff on its own is sufficient to
> exceed the population of Iceland.
>
>> especially in November of an even-numbered year, tend to be more or
>> less aware of what the population of each state is.
> I am aware of some political shenanigans that goes on in November of each
> year that is a multiple of 4, but what happens in November of "first-order
> even" years e.g. 2014?
They reelect the House of Representatives every two years. A bit often
> Athel Cornish-Bowden set the following eddies spiralling through the
> space-time continuum:
>
>> However, how many of us have any idea of the populations of Wales,
> You don't need the whole of Wales. Cardiff on its own is sufficient to
> exceed the population of Iceland.
>
>> especially in November of an even-numbered year, tend to be more or
>> less aware of what the population of each state is.
> I am aware of some political shenanigans that goes on in November of each
> year that is a multiple of 4, but what happens in November of "first-order
> even" years e.g. 2014?
for my taste, but there it is.
--
athel
Garrett Wollman
Nov 9, 2012, 4:09:44 PM11/9/12
to
In article <ag589j...@mid.individual.net>,
I'd support a constitutional amendment that increased the length of
House terms to three years. Actually, I'd like to see the terms of
House, Senate, and President be relatively prime:
T+0 House, 1/4 of Senate, President
T+2 1/4 of Senate
T+3 House
T+4 1/4 of Senate
T+5 President
T+6 House, 1/4 of Senate
T+8 1/4 of Senate
T+9 House
T+10 1/4 of Senate, President
T+12 House, 1/4 of Senate
T+14 1/4 of Senate
T+15 House, President
T+16 1/4 of Senate
T+18 House, 1/4 of Senate
T+20 1/4 of Senate, President
T+21 House
T+22 1/4 of Senate
T+24 House, 1/4 of Senate
T+25 President
T+26 1/4 of Senate
T+27 House
T+28 1/4 of Senate
T+30 House, 1/4 of Senate, President
Yes, it would mean more frequent elections, but there would be fewer
people on the ballot, giving voters the chance to be better informed
about the candidates, and giving officials more time between elections
so they can actually get something done. An alternative which would
maintain the linkage between House and Senate elections, with only a
15-year cycle:
T+0 House, 1/3 of Senate, President
T+3 House, 1/3 of Senate
T+5 President
T+6 House, 1/3 of Senate
T+9 House, 1/3 of Senate
T+10 President
T+12 House, 1/3 of Senate
T+15 House, 1/3 of Senate, President
The chances of anything like this actually passing are nil, of course.
Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>They reelect the House of Representatives every two years. A bit often
>for my taste, but there it is.
A bit often for most of our tastes, I think.
>They reelect the House of Representatives every two years. A bit often
>for my taste, but there it is.
I'd support a constitutional amendment that increased the length of
House terms to three years. Actually, I'd like to see the terms of
House, Senate, and President be relatively prime:
T+0 House, 1/4 of Senate, President
T+2 1/4 of Senate
T+3 House
T+4 1/4 of Senate
T+5 President
T+6 House, 1/4 of Senate
T+8 1/4 of Senate
T+9 House
T+10 1/4 of Senate, President
T+12 House, 1/4 of Senate
T+14 1/4 of Senate
T+15 House, President
T+16 1/4 of Senate
T+18 House, 1/4 of Senate
T+20 1/4 of Senate, President
T+21 House
T+22 1/4 of Senate
T+24 House, 1/4 of Senate
T+25 President
T+26 1/4 of Senate
T+27 House
T+28 1/4 of Senate
T+30 House, 1/4 of Senate, President
Yes, it would mean more frequent elections, but there would be fewer
people on the ballot, giving voters the chance to be better informed
about the candidates, and giving officials more time between elections
so they can actually get something done. An alternative which would
maintain the linkage between House and Senate elections, with only a
15-year cycle:
T+0 House, 1/3 of Senate, President
T+3 House, 1/3 of Senate
T+5 President
T+6 House, 1/3 of Senate
T+9 House, 1/3 of Senate
T+10 President
T+12 House, 1/3 of Senate
T+15 House, 1/3 of Senate, President
The chances of anything like this actually passing are nil, of course.
J. J. Lodder
Nov 9, 2012, 4:47:51 PM11/9/12
to
Ask the French,
[1]
Jan
[1] Who reduced it from seven to five,
and are still utterly, completely, and totally fed up
with whoever it is after only three.
Robert Bannister
Nov 9, 2012, 6:27:34 PM11/9/12
to
--
Robert Bannister
GordonD
Nov 9, 2012, 6:29:14 PM11/9/12
to
"James Silverton" <not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:k7jpic$1c2$1...@dont-email.me...
Then there's Newcastle-under-Lyme in Staffordshire, with a population of
just under 74,000 in 2001.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland
"Slipped the surly bonds of Earth...to touch the face of God."
news:k7jpic$1c2$1...@dont-email.me...
just under 74,000 in 2001.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland
"Slipped the surly bonds of Earth...to touch the face of God."
![Peter Duncanson [BrE]'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjU1GGYFBCZgBCNB-pRgkosMu-ej0qpnECw3jc8uGYOTiF8a=s40-c)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Nov 9, 2012, 7:52:04 PM11/9/12
to
On Fri, 9 Nov 2012 23:29:14 -0000, "GordonD" <g.d...@btinternet.com>
wrote:
Newcastle, County Down, has a population a tenth of that: 7,444 in 2001.
Newcastle, Shropshire, is a village without a population - well,
Wikipedia doesn't quote a figure.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
wrote:
Newcastle, Shropshire, is a village without a population - well,
Wikipedia doesn't quote a figure.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Guy Barry
Nov 10, 2012, 2:23:53 AM11/10/12
to
"Whiskers" wrote in message
news:slrnk9qp1b.1...@ID-107770.user.individual.net...
> I was half awake when I heard the BBC news report about that; I got the
> impression that everyone in Iceland had moved to Newcastle, illegally.
Icelandic citizen can travel to any EU country except the UK and Ireland
without border checks. Would the UK be able to prevent them from entering?
I'm really not at all sure.
(Incidentally, what's the correct demonym for Iceland? Is it "Icelander",
or is "Icelandic" used as a noun?)
--
Guy Barry
Nick Spalding
Nov 10, 2012, 5:59:20 AM11/10/12
to
GordonD wrote, in <ag5huc...@mid.individual.net>
on Fri, 9 Nov 2012 23:29:14 -0000:
I was once in the telegraph business; the directory of all the telegraph
offices in the world had more Newcastles in it than any other place
name.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
on Fri, 9 Nov 2012 23:29:14 -0000:
offices in the world had more Newcastles in it than any other place
name.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
jgharston
Nov 10, 2012, 9:02:01 AM11/10/12
to
Garrett Wollman wrote:
> T+0 House, 1/4 of Senate, President
> T+2 1/4 of Senate
> T+3 House
> T+4 1/4 of Senate
> T+5 President
> T+6 House, 1/4 of Senate
Oooh god, annual elections, no way. We have that in city council
> T+0 House, 1/4 of Senate, President
> T+2 1/4 of Senate
> T+3 House
> T+4 1/4 of Senate
> T+5 President
> T+6 House, 1/4 of Senate
elections here in the UK (three years in every four, and usually get
a general election in the fourth). It's *exhausting*, and you never
have any time to actually get anything done as you're immediately
campaigining for next year's election. And it's not the case that
once elected you have four years before /your/ next election, you're
immediately having to campaign for your collegues' election next year.
In your example:
> T+3 House
> T+4 1/4 of Senate
> T+5 President
> T+6 House, 1/4 of Senate
once you've got elected to the House, you then spend the next
> T+4 1/4 of Senate
> T+5 President
> T+6 House, 1/4 of Senate
year getting your colleagues elected to the Senate, then
spend the next year getting your colleague elected President,
then spend the next year getting your colleagues elected to
the Senate, then drop dead from exhaustion.
I've been running a campaign locally for some years trying to
get the city council to switch over to all-up four-yearly elections,
but it's always opposed by political types who prioritise keeping
activisits busy over getting council administration done.
JGH
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Nov 10, 2012, 9:18:34 AM11/10/12
to
On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 10:59:20 +0000, Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie>
wrote:
I've never seen a list of all placenames here in Northern Ireland.
However, I suspect one of the contenders for the most common placename
is Milltown.
wrote:
However, I suspect one of the contenders for the most common placename
is Milltown.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Nov 10, 2012, 9:21:11 AM11/10/12
to
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ic.html
Nationality:
noun: Icelander(s)
adjective: Icelandic
Donna Richoux
Nov 10, 2012, 9:38:58 AM11/10/12
to
Peter Duncanson [BrE] <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
> I've never seen a list of all placenames here in Northern Ireland.
> However, I suspect one of the contenders for the most common placename
> is Milltown.
I don't remember any Milltowns in the US (I know Milton, Mass.) so I was
>
> I've never seen a list of all placenames here in Northern Ireland.
> However, I suspect one of the contenders for the most common placename
> is Milltown.
surprised to see that the Getty Thesaurus lists more than thirty, plus
more for "Mill Town" and placenames containing Milltown. The list starts
here (the first four are mere districts):
<http://www.getty.edu/vow/TGNServlet?english=Y&find=milltown&place=&page
=1&nation=United+States>
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Guy Barry
Nov 10, 2012, 11:21:58 AM11/10/12
to
"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
news:5kos98hkme8asrtk0...@4ax.com...
assumed it was facetious.
How did a classical suffix like "-ic" manage to get attached to a Germanic
form like "-land" in the first place?
--
Guy Barry
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Nov 10, 2012, 12:58:33 PM11/10/12
to
On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:21:58 -0000, "Guy Barry"
"Iceland" is the English form of the Icelandic "Island".
And according to Wikip "Island" is pronounced as "eeslant".
According to Google Translate:
(English) Icelander = (Icelandic) �slendingur
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
>news:5kos98hkme8asrtk0...@4ax.com...
>
>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 07:23:53 -0000, "Guy Barry"
>> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> >(Incidentally, what's the correct demonym for Iceland? Is it
>> >"Icelander",
>> >or is "Icelandic" used as a noun?)
>
>> CIA World Factbook to the rescue:
>> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ic.html
>
>>
>> Nationality:
>> noun: Icelander(s)
>> adjective: Icelandic
>
>And yet I don't think I've ever heard the term "Icelander" - or if I have, I
>assumed it was facetious.
>
>How did a classical suffix like "-ic" manage to get attached to a Germanic
>form like "-land" in the first place?
Because these are English words.
>
>
>"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
>news:5kos98hkme8asrtk0...@4ax.com...
>
>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 07:23:53 -0000, "Guy Barry"
>> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> >(Incidentally, what's the correct demonym for Iceland? Is it
>> >"Icelander",
>> >or is "Icelandic" used as a noun?)
>
>> CIA World Factbook to the rescue:
>> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ic.html
>
>>
>> Nationality:
>> noun: Icelander(s)
>> adjective: Icelandic
>
>And yet I don't think I've ever heard the term "Icelander" - or if I have, I
>assumed it was facetious.
>
>How did a classical suffix like "-ic" manage to get attached to a Germanic
>form like "-land" in the first place?
"Iceland" is the English form of the Icelandic "Island".
And according to Wikip "Island" is pronounced as "eeslant".
According to Google Translate:
(English) Icelander = (Icelandic) �slendingur
Guy Barry
Nov 10, 2012, 1:01:16 PM11/10/12
to
"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:21:58 -0000, "Guy Barry"
> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >How did a classical suffix like "-ic" manage to get attached to a
> >Germanic
> >form like "-land" in the first place?
> Because these are English words.
about terms like "shambolic", but they're generally regarded as facetious.
--
Guy Barry
Garrett Wollman
Nov 10, 2012, 1:07:31 PM11/10/12
to
In article <5632fad0-7cca-418d...@y6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
I grew up in Vermont. It's not a big deal. (At least one election
every year, on Town Meeting Day; at least two a year in even-numbered
years, and at least three a year in presidential election years. How
many there are in total depends on how many times they have to put the
town or school budget up for a vote before it finally passes.)
>In your example:
>> T+3 House
>> T+4 1/4 of Senate
>> T+5 President
>> T+6 House, 1/4 of Senate
>once you've got elected to the House, you then spend the next
>year getting your colleagues elected to the Senate,
Doesn't work out that way. House members are rarely a significant
part of anyone else's Senate campaigns.
I grew up in Vermont. It's not a big deal. (At least one election
every year, on Town Meeting Day; at least two a year in even-numbered
years, and at least three a year in presidential election years. How
many there are in total depends on how many times they have to put the
town or school budget up for a vote before it finally passes.)
>In your example:
>> T+3 House
>> T+4 1/4 of Senate
>> T+5 President
>> T+6 House, 1/4 of Senate
>once you've got elected to the House, you then spend the next
>year getting your colleagues elected to the Senate,
part of anyone else's Senate campaigns.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Nov 10, 2012, 3:26:05 PM11/10/12
to
On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:01:16 -0000, "Guy Barry"
The OED article on -ic is long and contains Greek characters so here is
just a snippet:
...and in words formed from Greek, or on Greek types. These were
very numerous in late and medieval Latin, whence they passed into
the modern langs.; since the 16th c. they have been taken directly
from Greek, or formed upon Greek elements, and in some recent (esp.
scientific) terms on words from Latin or other sources, as carbonic,
oratoric, artistic, bardic, scaldic, felspathic, Icelandic, Byronic.
"bard" (a minstrel poet) < Gaelic and Irish.
"scald" (An ancient Scandinavian poet) < Old Norse and Icelandic.
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
>news:3o4t985j6qne0ls8l...@4ax.com...
>
>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:21:58 -0000, "Guy Barry"
>> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> >How did a classical suffix like "-ic" manage to get attached to a
>> >Germanic
>> >form like "-land" in the first place?
>
>> Because these are English words.
>
>So how did a classical suffix become attached? We've talked previously
>about terms like "shambolic", but they're generally regarded as facetious.
Probably because -ic is now an English suffix.
>
>
>"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
>news:3o4t985j6qne0ls8l...@4ax.com...
>
>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:21:58 -0000, "Guy Barry"
>> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> >How did a classical suffix like "-ic" manage to get attached to a
>> >Germanic
>> >form like "-land" in the first place?
>
>> Because these are English words.
>
>So how did a classical suffix become attached? We've talked previously
>about terms like "shambolic", but they're generally regarded as facetious.
The OED article on -ic is long and contains Greek characters so here is
just a snippet:
...and in words formed from Greek, or on Greek types. These were
very numerous in late and medieval Latin, whence they passed into
the modern langs.; since the 16th c. they have been taken directly
from Greek, or formed upon Greek elements, and in some recent (esp.
scientific) terms on words from Latin or other sources, as carbonic,
oratoric, artistic, bardic, scaldic, felspathic, Icelandic, Byronic.
"bard" (a minstrel poet) < Gaelic and Irish.
"scald" (An ancient Scandinavian poet) < Old Norse and Icelandic.
R H Draney
Nov 10, 2012, 3:43:52 PM11/10/12
to
Donna Richoux filted:
Arizona") are apparently referencing alternative names...six of the 34 actually
identified as "Milltown" are in New Jersey, another five in Pennsylvania, and
three more in Tennessee....
The most common place name in the US is said to be "Fairview" (214
hits)...before researching the matter, I would have guessed "Springfield" (67)
or perhaps "Glendale" (81)....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
>
>I don't remember any Milltowns in the US (I know Milton, Mass.) so I was
>surprised to see that the Getty Thesaurus lists more than thirty, plus
>more for "Mill Town" and placenames containing Milltown. The list starts
>here (the first four are mere districts):
>
><http://www.getty.edu/vow/TGNServlet?english=Y&find=milltown&place=&page
>=1&nation=United+States>
USGS lists 50 "populated places" named Milltown, but some (including "Flagstaff,
>I don't remember any Milltowns in the US (I know Milton, Mass.) so I was
>surprised to see that the Getty Thesaurus lists more than thirty, plus
>more for "Mill Town" and placenames containing Milltown. The list starts
>here (the first four are mere districts):
>
><http://www.getty.edu/vow/TGNServlet?english=Y&find=milltown&place=&page
>=1&nation=United+States>
Arizona") are apparently referencing alternative names...six of the 34 actually
identified as "Milltown" are in New Jersey, another five in Pennsylvania, and
three more in Tennessee....
The most common place name in the US is said to be "Fairview" (214
hits)...before researching the matter, I would have guessed "Springfield" (67)
or perhaps "Glendale" (81)....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Mike L
Nov 10, 2012, 3:47:25 PM11/10/12
to
On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:01:16 -0000, "Guy Barry"
"Icelandish" is illustrated from 1708 and 1807 only. "Icelandic" isn't
the only formation of the kind, either: see the end of this nice para
in OED.
<This was in Greek one of the commonest of suffixes, forming adjs.,
with the sense �after the manner of�, �of the nature of�, �pertaining
to�, �of�. Its use in Latin was much more restricted, and it ceased to
be a living formative, except in the compound suffix -a-ticus (see
-atic suffix, -age suffix), and in words formed from Greek, or on
--
Mike.
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
>news:3o4t985j6qne0ls8l...@4ax.com...
>
>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:21:58 -0000, "Guy Barry"
>> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> >How did a classical suffix like "-ic" manage to get attached to a
>> >Germanic
>> >form like "-land" in the first place?
>
>> Because these are English words.
>
>So how did a classical suffix become attached? We've talked previously
>about terms like "shambolic", but they're generally regarded as facetious.
Because it does the job, presumably. OED has it from 1674 onward;
>
>
>"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
>news:3o4t985j6qne0ls8l...@4ax.com...
>
>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 16:21:58 -0000, "Guy Barry"
>> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> >How did a classical suffix like "-ic" manage to get attached to a
>> >Germanic
>> >form like "-land" in the first place?
>
>> Because these are English words.
>
>So how did a classical suffix become attached? We've talked previously
>about terms like "shambolic", but they're generally regarded as facetious.
"Icelandish" is illustrated from 1708 and 1807 only. "Icelandic" isn't
the only formation of the kind, either: see the end of this nice para
in OED.
<This was in Greek one of the commonest of suffixes, forming adjs.,
with the sense �after the manner of�, �of the nature of�, �pertaining
to�, �of�. Its use in Latin was much more restricted, and it ceased to
be a living formative, except in the compound suffix -a-ticus (see
-atic suffix, -age suffix), and in words formed from Greek, or on
Greek types. These were very numerous in late and medieval Latin,
whence they passed into the modern langs.; since the 16th c. they have
been taken directly from Greek, or formed upon Greek elements, and in
some recent (esp. scientific) terms on words from Latin or other
sources, as carbonic, oratoric, artistic, bardic, scaldic, felspathic,
Icelandic, Byronic.> Gothic and Vedic also come to mind.
whence they passed into the modern langs.; since the 16th c. they have
been taken directly from Greek, or formed upon Greek elements, and in
some recent (esp. scientific) terms on words from Latin or other
sources, as carbonic, oratoric, artistic, bardic, scaldic, felspathic,
--
Mike.
R H Draney
Nov 10, 2012, 3:51:04 PM11/10/12
to
Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> filted:
Google Translate has some issues in this area:
(English) Icelandic = (Icelandic) Icelandic
(Icelandic) Íslenska = (English) English
(English) English = (Icelandic) English
>
>"Iceland" is the English form of the Icelandic "Island".
>And according to Wikip "Island" is pronounced as "eeslant".
>
>According to Google Translate:
> (English) Icelander = (Icelandic) Íslendingur
>"Iceland" is the English form of the Icelandic "Island".
>And according to Wikip "Island" is pronounced as "eeslant".
>
>According to Google Translate:
Google Translate has some issues in this area:
(English) Icelandic = (Icelandic) Icelandic
(Icelandic) Íslenska = (English) English
(English) English = (Icelandic) English
Peter Young
Nov 10, 2012, 4:56:23 PM11/10/12
to
On 10 Nov 2012 R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> filted:
>>
>>"Iceland" is the English form of the Icelandic "Island".
>>And according to Wikip "Island" is pronounced as "eeslant".
>>
>>According to Google Translate:
>> (English) Icelander = (Icelandic) Íslendingur
> Google Translate has some issues in this area:
^^^^^^
> Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> filted:
>>
>>"Iceland" is the English form of the Icelandic "Island".
>>And according to Wikip "Island" is pronounced as "eeslant".
>>
>>According to Google Translate:
>> (English) Icelander = (Icelandic) Íslendingur
> Google Translate has some issues in this area:
Oy!
Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Skitt
Nov 10, 2012, 5:00:06 PM11/10/12
to
Peter Young wrote:
> R H Draney wrote:
>> Peter Duncanson [BrE]" filted:
>>> "Iceland" is the English form of the Icelandic "Island".
>>> And according to Wikip "Island" is pronounced as "eeslant".
>>>
>>> According to Google Translate:
>>> (English) Icelander = (Icelandic) �slendingur
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt
> R H Draney wrote:
>> Peter Duncanson [BrE]" filted:
>>> "Iceland" is the English form of the Icelandic "Island".
>>> And according to Wikip "Island" is pronounced as "eeslant".
>>>
>>> According to Google Translate:
>
>> Google Translate has some issues in this area:
> ^^^^^^
> Oy!
Do you have an issue with that?
>> Google Translate has some issues in this area:
> ^^^^^^
> Oy!
--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt
Mike L
Nov 10, 2012, 5:05:29 PM11/10/12
to
On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 14:00:06 -0800, Skitt <ski...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Peter Young wrote:
>> R H Draney wrote:
>>> Peter Duncanson [BrE]" filted:
>
>>>> "Iceland" is the English form of the Icelandic "Island".
>>>> And according to Wikip "Island" is pronounced as "eeslant".
>>>>
>>>> According to Google Translate:
>>>> (English) Icelander = (Icelandic) �slendingur
>>
>>> Google Translate has some issues in this area:
>> ^^^^^^
>> Oy!
>
>
>Do you have an issue with that?
You won't find out till the next issue.
>Peter Young wrote:
>> R H Draney wrote:
>>> Peter Duncanson [BrE]" filted:
>
>>>> "Iceland" is the English form of the Icelandic "Island".
>>>> And according to Wikip "Island" is pronounced as "eeslant".
>>>>
>>>> According to Google Translate:
>>>> (English) Icelander = (Icelandic) �slendingur
>>
>>> Google Translate has some issues in this area:
>> ^^^^^^
>> Oy!
>
>
>Do you have an issue with that?
--
Mike.
Robert Bannister
Nov 10, 2012, 6:45:57 PM11/10/12
to
>
>
We've talked about this lack of pattern with English words for
nationalities before. Compare by contrast the German: Isländer
(Icelander), Niederländer (Dutch person), Irländer (Irish person) which
are all formed from the country's name ending in -land.
--
Robert Bannister
Robin Bignall
Nov 10, 2012, 8:00:37 PM11/10/12
to
On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 22:05:29 +0000, Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 14:00:06 -0800, Skitt <ski...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Peter Young wrote:
>>> R H Draney wrote:
>>>> Peter Duncanson [BrE]" filted:
>>
>>>>> "Iceland" is the English form of the Icelandic "Island".
>>>>> And according to Wikip "Island" is pronounced as "eeslant".
>>>>>
>>>>> According to Google Translate:
>>>>> (English) Icelander = (Icelandic) Íslendingur
>On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 14:00:06 -0800, Skitt <ski...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Peter Young wrote:
>>> R H Draney wrote:
>>>> Peter Duncanson [BrE]" filted:
>>
>>>>> "Iceland" is the English form of the Icelandic "Island".
>>>>> And according to Wikip "Island" is pronounced as "eeslant".
>>>>>
>>>>> According to Google Translate:
>>>
>>>> Google Translate has some issues in this area:
>>> ^^^^^^
>>> Oy!
>>
>>
>>Do you have an issue with that?
>
>You won't find out till the next issue.
Issue or issue not my baby...
>>>> Google Translate has some issues in this area:
>>> ^^^^^^
>>> Oy!
>>
>>
>>Do you have an issue with that?
>
>You won't find out till the next issue.
--
Robin Bignall
(BrE)
Herts, England
John Varela
Nov 10, 2012, 8:16:33 PM11/10/12
to
On Fri, 9 Nov 2012 15:48:05 UTC, Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk>
wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2012 tony cooper <tony.co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 9 Nov 2012 10:30:28 +0000, Paul Wolff
> > <boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>In message
> >><863f3c19-d866-42a4...@s14g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
> >>jgharston <j...@arcade.demon.co.uk> writes
> >>>> half the population of Wyoming.
> >>>
> >>>But, more importantly, how many Waleseseses is that?
> >>>
> >>I want to know how many Olympic-sized swimming pools they could be
> >>packed into sardine-wise.
>
> > What? What? The only comparison that works visually is the laying of
> > the backlogged cases end-to-end from here to there or around that.
>
> As Dorothy Parker may have said, "If all the girls at the Yale (or was
> it Harvard?) Prom were laid end-to-end, I wouldn't be surprised".
Radcliffe, more likely.
--
John Varela
wrote:
> On 9 Nov 2012 tony cooper <tony.co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 9 Nov 2012 10:30:28 +0000, Paul Wolff
> > <boun...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>In message
> >><863f3c19-d866-42a4...@s14g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
> >>jgharston <j...@arcade.demon.co.uk> writes
> >>>Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> >>>>>> "It's been revealed that the UK Border Agency has a backlog of cases
> >>>>>> equivalent to the population of Newcastle-upon-Tyne."
> >>>>
> >>>>>> "It's been revealed that the UK Border Agency has a backlog of cases
> >>>>>> equivalent to the population of Newcastle-upon-Tyne."
> >>>>
> >>>>> I just wanted to report that it's now apparently equivalent to the
> >>>>> population of Iceland.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think our American friends would prefer to say that it's more than
> >>>>> population of Iceland.
> >>>>
> >>>> half the population of Wyoming.
> >>>
> >>>But, more importantly, how many Waleseseses is that?
> >>>
> >>I want to know how many Olympic-sized swimming pools they could be
> >>packed into sardine-wise.
>
> > What? What? The only comparison that works visually is the laying of
> > the backlogged cases end-to-end from here to there or around that.
>
> As Dorothy Parker may have said, "If all the girls at the Yale (or was
> it Harvard?) Prom were laid end-to-end, I wouldn't be surprised".
Radcliffe, more likely.
--
John Varela
John Varela
Nov 10, 2012, 8:24:38 PM11/10/12
to
On Fri, 9 Nov 2012 20:44:35 UTC, Athel Cornish-Bowden
whatever is important to the people right now, while the Senate, one
third of which is elected every two years, is expected to be more
stable and provide a longer-term view. Also recall that in the
beginning the Senators were not popularly elected, but were sent to
Congress by their state governments in the same way that nations
today send ambassadors to the UN General Assembly.
--
John Varela
<acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
> They reelect the House of Representatives every two years. A bit often
> for my taste, but there it is.
As I understand it, the idea is that the House is responsive to
> They reelect the House of Representatives every two years. A bit often
> for my taste, but there it is.
whatever is important to the people right now, while the Senate, one
third of which is elected every two years, is expected to be more
stable and provide a longer-term view. Also recall that in the
beginning the Senators were not popularly elected, but were sent to
Congress by their state governments in the same way that nations
today send ambassadors to the UN General Assembly.
--
John Varela
Guy Barry
Nov 10, 2012, 10:10:05 PM11/10/12
to
"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:01:16 -0000, "Guy Barry"
> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >So how did a classical suffix become attached? We've talked previously
> >about terms like "shambolic", but they're generally regarded as
> >facetious.
> Probably because -ic is now an English suffix.
corresponding forms in "-ic" (with the exception of "Greenlandic", although
I think this is mainly used to refer to the language). We have
England/English, Scotland/Scottish, Ireland/Irish, Finland/Finnish,
Poland/Polish, so on those grounds I'd expect "Icish". (Not sure where
"Switzerland/Swiss" fits in though.)
> "bard" (a minstrel poet) < Gaelic and Irish.
--
Guy Barry
jgharston
Nov 10, 2012, 11:18:42 PM11/10/12
to
Garrett Wollman wrote:
> >once you've got elected to the House, you then spend the next
> >year getting your colleagues elected to the Senate,
>
> Doesn't work out that way. House members are rarely a significant
> part of anyone else's Senate campaigns.
I'm not saying it is, it's just that you can't say "I'm elected to my
> >once you've got elected to the House, you then spend the next
> >year getting your colleagues elected to the Senate,
>
> Doesn't work out that way. House members are rarely a significant
> part of anyone else's Senate campaigns.
seat, you sort out your election yourself." EVERYBODY gets
roped into EVERYBODY's election campaigns, refusing to help
out results in deselection.
May 2004: City council election
Jun 2004: Right, you've got to get Nick elected to Parliament
next year.
Jun 2005. Right, we've got Nick elected, now you've got to get
yourself re-elected next year.
Jun 2006: Ok, you've got re-elected, now you've got to get Penny
elected next year.
Jun 2007: Ok, you've got Penny elected, now you've got to get
Diane re-elected next year.
Jun 2008: Ok, Diane's re-elected, now you've got to get our
candidtaes elected to Europe
Jun 2009: Oh dear, you haven't been working hard enough,
you're deselected. Now you've got to get Ben elected in
your seat next year *and* get Paul elected to Parliament.
Jun 2010: Ok, Ben's elected, now we need you to... eh,
where've you gone? What do you mean you're not helping
any more? What do you mean you're concentrating on
finding paid employment?
JGH
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Nov 11, 2012, 1:43:37 AM11/11/12
to
long ago (1880s?) the Post Office had put an end to many duplicate
names by saying that it would not deliver mail to places for which the
name occurred more than once in any state. Unless, of course, they
increased the number of states to 214+ when I wasxn't paying attention…
--
athel
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Nov 11, 2012, 1:53:36 AM11/11/12
to
On 2012-11-11 03:10:05 +0000, Guy Barry said:
> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
> news:3uct98hqsjg13gq6i...@4ax.com...
>
>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:01:16 -0000, "Guy Barry"
>> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> So how did a classical suffix become attached? We've talked previously
>>> about terms like "shambolic", but they're generally regarded as facetious.
>
>> Probably because -ic is now an English suffix.
>
> Not usually a productive one, though. Other countries in "-land" don't
> have corresponding forms in "-ic" (with the exception of "Greenlandic",
> although I think this is mainly used to refer to the language). We
> have England/English, Scotland/Scottish, Ireland/Irish,
> Finland/Finnish, Poland/Polish, so on those grounds I'd expect "Icish".
> (Not sure where "Switzerland/Swiss" fits in though.)
You seem to be wanting a logical and consistent system, but there is no
> "Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
> news:3uct98hqsjg13gq6i...@4ax.com...
>
>> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 18:01:16 -0000, "Guy Barry"
>> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> So how did a classical suffix become attached? We've talked previously
>>> about terms like "shambolic", but they're generally regarded as facetious.
>
>> Probably because -ic is now an English suffix.
>
> Not usually a productive one, though. Other countries in "-land" don't
> have corresponding forms in "-ic" (with the exception of "Greenlandic",
> although I think this is mainly used to refer to the language). We
> have England/English, Scotland/Scottish, Ireland/Irish,
> Finland/Finnish, Poland/Polish, so on those grounds I'd expect "Icish".
> (Not sure where "Switzerland/Swiss" fits in though.)
reason to expect one. No committee ever sat down and decided that all
the countries whose names ended in "land" would makie their adjectives
by changing "land" to 'ish". Like most things in English they just
developed haphazardly at different times and in different ways. There
are other exceptions apart from Iceland and Switzerland: for example,
"Thalland" doesn't make "Thaiish", "Somaliland" didn't make
"Somaliish", and "Turkish" doesn't come from "Turkland".
--
athel
Message has been deleted
Guy Barry
Nov 11, 2012, 3:07:36 AM11/11/12
to
"Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
news:ag90bc...@mid.individual.net...
> On 2012-11-11 03:10:05 +0000, Guy Barry said:
> > Not usually a productive one, though. Other countries in "-land" don't
> > have corresponding forms in "-ic" (with the exception of "Greenlandic",
> > although I think this is mainly used to refer to the language). We have
> > England/English, Scotland/Scottish, Ireland/Irish, Finland/Finnish,
> > Poland/Polish, so on those grounds I'd expect "Icish". (Not sure where
> > "Switzerland/Swiss" fits in though.)
> You seem to be wanting a logical and consistent system, but there is no
> reason to expect one. No committee ever sat down and decided that all the
> countries whose names ended in "land" would makie their adjectives by
> changing "land" to 'ish".
raises the issue of whether Iceland is technically a European country, but
for most purposes it seems to be classified as one.)
> Like most things in English they just developed haphazardly at different
> times and in different ways. There are other exceptions apart from Iceland
> and Switzerland: for example, "Thalland" doesn't make "Thaiish",
> "Somaliland" didn't make "Somaliish",
countries the name of the country came from the name of the people, not the
other way round. (There's also "New Zealand", which doesn't seem to form an
adjective at all.)
> and "Turkish" doesn't come from "Turkland".
don't come from countries in "-land" either. (I'm sure there are other
examples.)
--
Guy Barry
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Nov 11, 2012, 4:19:52 AM11/11/12
to
On 2012-11-11 08:07:36 +0000, Guy Barry said:
> "Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
> news:ag90bc...@mid.individual.net...
>
>> On 2012-11-11 03:10:05 +0000, Guy Barry said:
>
>>> Not usually a productive one, though. Other countries in "-land" don't
>>> have corresponding forms in "-ic" (with the exception of "Greenlandic",
>>> although I think this is mainly used to refer to the language). We
>>> have England/English, Scotland/Scottish, Ireland/Irish,
>>> Finland/Finnish, Poland/Polish, so on those grounds I'd expect "Icish".
>>> (Not sure where "Switzerland/Swiss" fits in though.)
>
>> You seem to be wanting a logical and consistent system, but there is no
>> reason to expect one. No committee ever sat down and decided that all
>> the countries whose names ended in "land" would makie their adjectives
>> by changing "land" to 'ish".
>
> I think it's generally true for European countries, though.
Holland (if you regard that as the name of a country)? The Netherlands?
> "Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
> news:ag90bc...@mid.individual.net...
>
>> On 2012-11-11 03:10:05 +0000, Guy Barry said:
>
>>> Not usually a productive one, though. Other countries in "-land" don't
>>> have corresponding forms in "-ic" (with the exception of "Greenlandic",
>>> although I think this is mainly used to refer to the language). We
>>> have England/English, Scotland/Scottish, Ireland/Irish,
>>> Finland/Finnish, Poland/Polish, so on those grounds I'd expect "Icish".
>>> (Not sure where "Switzerland/Swiss" fits in though.)
>
>> You seem to be wanting a logical and consistent system, but there is no
>> reason to expect one. No committee ever sat down and decided that all
>> the countries whose names ended in "land" would makie their adjectives
>> by changing "land" to 'ish".
>
> I think it's generally true for European countries, though.
I note, incidentally, that you live in a city that forms its adjective
in a way no other British city (to my knowledge) does.
> (Of course that raises the issue of whether Iceland is technically a
> European country, but for most purposes it seems to be classified as
> one.)
>
>> Like most things in English they just developed haphazardly at
>> different times and in different ways. There are other exceptions apart
>> from Iceland and Switzerland: for example, "Thalland" doesn't make
>> "Thaiish", "Somaliland" didn't make "Somaliish",
>
> I think it's different for countries elsewhere in the world. In those
> countries the name of the country came from the name of the people, not
> the other way round. (There's also "New Zealand", which doesn't seem
> to form an adjective at all.)
>
>> and "Turkish" doesn't come from "Turkland".
>
> I never claimed that it worked the other way round. "Danish" and
> "Swedish" don't come from countries in "-land" either. (I'm sure there
> are other examples.)
--
Peter Young
Nov 11, 2012, 5:22:54 AM11/11/12
to
On 11 Nov 2012 Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
> On 2012-11-11 08:07:36 +0000, Guy Barry said:
>> "Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
>> news:ag90bc...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>> On 2012-11-11 03:10:05 +0000, Guy Barry said:
>>
>>>> Not usually a productive one, though. Other countries in "-land" don't
>>>> have corresponding forms in "-ic" (with the exception of "Greenlandic",
>>>> although I think this is mainly used to refer to the language). We
>>>> have England/English, Scotland/Scottish, Ireland/Irish,
>>>> Finland/Finnish, Poland/Polish, so on those grounds I'd expect "Icish".
>>>> (Not sure where "Switzerland/Swiss" fits in though.)
>>
>>> You seem to be wanting a logical and consistent system, but there is no
>>> reason to expect one. No committee ever sat down and decided that all
>>> the countries whose names ended in "land" would makie their adjectives
>>> by changing "land" to 'ish".
>>
>> I think it's generally true for European countries, though.
> Holland (if you regard that as the name of a country)? The Netherlands?
> I note, incidentally, that you live in a city that forms its adjective
> in a way no other British city (to my knowledge) does.
Up to a point. Cheltenham > Cheltonian.
> On 2012-11-11 08:07:36 +0000, Guy Barry said:
>> "Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
>> news:ag90bc...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>> On 2012-11-11 03:10:05 +0000, Guy Barry said:
>>
>>>> Not usually a productive one, though. Other countries in "-land" don't
>>>> have corresponding forms in "-ic" (with the exception of "Greenlandic",
>>>> although I think this is mainly used to refer to the language). We
>>>> have England/English, Scotland/Scottish, Ireland/Irish,
>>>> Finland/Finnish, Poland/Polish, so on those grounds I'd expect "Icish".
>>>> (Not sure where "Switzerland/Swiss" fits in though.)
>>
>>> You seem to be wanting a logical and consistent system, but there is no
>>> reason to expect one. No committee ever sat down and decided that all
>>> the countries whose names ended in "land" would makie their adjectives
>>> by changing "land" to 'ish".
>>
>> I think it's generally true for European countries, though.
> Holland (if you regard that as the name of a country)? The Netherlands?
> I note, incidentally, that you live in a city that forms its adjective
> in a way no other British city (to my knowledge) does.
Guy Barry
Nov 11, 2012, 5:49:23 AM11/11/12
to
"Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
> On 2012-11-11 08:07:36 +0000, Guy Barry said:
> > I think it's generally true for European countries, though.
> Holland (if you regard that as the name of a country)? The Netherlands?
OK, good point.
> Holland (if you regard that as the name of a country)? The Netherlands?
> I note, incidentally, that you live in a city that forms its adjective in
> a way no other British city (to my knowledge) does.
although "Aberdeen" forms "Aberdonian". But then there aren't many British
cities with monosyllabic names. I believe Hull forms "Hullensian" - what
about York?
--
Guy Barry
Donna Richoux
Nov 11, 2012, 6:11:01 AM11/11/12
to
It's true that while Getty lists 14 "inhabited places" called "Fairview"
in Alabama alone, there don't seem to be *any* places named Fairview in
Alabama that are assigned a zip code. (Mongabay.com, Zip Code Listings
for Alabama.)
The Fairview in Cullen County, for example, uses "Cullen" and a Cullen
zip code for mail delivery. Google maps shows it to be a completely
separate village, though, about 10 miles across farms and woods to the
town of Cullen.
I looked into two more of the Fairviews in Alabama, and they don't
appear to be functioning as towns or villages -- one was a Civil War
battlefield and the other still has a Fairview Church.
Anyway, I don't think we can use the Post Office's idea of what is
convenient for the addressing and distribution of mail to determine
legal and social identity.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
the Omrud
Nov 11, 2012, 6:29:01 AM11/11/12
to
--
David
CDB
Nov 11, 2012, 6:52:49 AM11/11/12
to
Guy Barry
Nov 11, 2012, 6:53:59 AM11/11/12
to
"the Omrud" wrote in message news:F_Lns.253900$9W6.1...@fx08.am4...
thought was a type of ball bowled in cricket):
http://www.peoplefrom.co.uk/peoplefrom_united-kingdom_yorkshire_39.html
It also says that people from (Kingston upon) Hull are "Kingstonians".
Leeds has "Leodensians" or "Loiners".
How many of these terms are actually used in practice? I get the feeling
that they're a bit like collective nouns - some people delight in knowing
all the correct terms, but they're not widely understood.
--
Guy Barry
tony cooper
Nov 11, 2012, 10:44:34 AM11/11/12
to
On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 07:43:37 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>Are these place names recognized by the US Post Office? I thought that
>long ago (1880s?) the Post Office had put an end to many duplicate
>names by saying that it would not deliver mail to places for which the
>name occurred more than once in any state. Unless, of course, they
>increased the number of states to 214+ when I wasxn't paying attention�
<acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>Are these place names recognized by the US Post Office? I thought that
>long ago (1880s?) the Post Office had put an end to many duplicate
>names by saying that it would not deliver mail to places for which the
>name occurred more than once in any state. Unless, of course, they
It's not my impression that the US Post Office pays any attention at
all to the city name. The envelope goes to where the ZIP code says it
is to go. If the mail is sorted electronically, you could address a
letter to me using any city in writing, but it would arrive in my box
if the ZIP+4 code was correct for my house.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Nov 11, 2012, 10:51:53 AM11/11/12
to
it didn't like duplicate names.
--
athel
Mike L
Nov 11, 2012, 3:14:50 PM11/11/12
to
On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:22:54 GMT, Peter Young <pny...@ormail.co.uk>
wrote:
>On 11 Nov 2012 Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>
>> On 2012-11-11 08:07:36 +0000, Guy Barry said:
>
>>> "Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
>>> news:ag90bc...@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>>> On 2012-11-11 03:10:05 +0000, Guy Barry said:
>>>
>>>>> Not usually a productive one, though. Other countries in "-land" don't
>>>>> have corresponding forms in "-ic" (with the exception of "Greenlandic",
>>>>> although I think this is mainly used to refer to the language). We
>>>>> have England/English, Scotland/Scottish, Ireland/Irish,
>>>>> Finland/Finnish, Poland/Polish, so on those grounds I'd expect "Icish".
>>>>> (Not sure where "Switzerland/Swiss" fits in though.)
>>>
>>>> You seem to be wanting a logical and consistent system, but there is no
>>>> reason to expect one. No committee ever sat down and decided that all
>>>> the countries whose names ended in "land" would makie their adjectives
>>>> by changing "land" to 'ish".
>>>
>>> I think it's generally true for European countries, though.
>
>> Holland (if you regard that as the name of a country)? The Netherlands?
>
>> I note, incidentally, that you live in a city that forms its adjective
>> in a way no other British city (to my knowledge) does.
>
>Up to a point. Cheltenham > Cheltonian.
>
Up to the same point: Oxonian, Exonian.
"Oxford man dies in nuclear holocaust"
--
Mike.
wrote:
>On 11 Nov 2012 Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
>
>> On 2012-11-11 08:07:36 +0000, Guy Barry said:
>
>>> "Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
>>> news:ag90bc...@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>>> On 2012-11-11 03:10:05 +0000, Guy Barry said:
>>>
>>>>> Not usually a productive one, though. Other countries in "-land" don't
>>>>> have corresponding forms in "-ic" (with the exception of "Greenlandic",
>>>>> although I think this is mainly used to refer to the language). We
>>>>> have England/English, Scotland/Scottish, Ireland/Irish,
>>>>> Finland/Finnish, Poland/Polish, so on those grounds I'd expect "Icish".
>>>>> (Not sure where "Switzerland/Swiss" fits in though.)
>>>
>>>> You seem to be wanting a logical and consistent system, but there is no
>>>> reason to expect one. No committee ever sat down and decided that all
>>>> the countries whose names ended in "land" would makie their adjectives
>>>> by changing "land" to 'ish".
>>>
>>> I think it's generally true for European countries, though.
>
>> Holland (if you regard that as the name of a country)? The Netherlands?
>
>> I note, incidentally, that you live in a city that forms its adjective
>> in a way no other British city (to my knowledge) does.
>
>Up to a point. Cheltenham > Cheltonian.
>
"Oxford man dies in nuclear holocaust"
--
Mike.
Mike L
Nov 11, 2012, 3:31:52 PM11/11/12
to
On 11 Nov 2012 01:24:38 GMT, "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net>
wrote:
The Irish Senate (while it lasts) isn't popularly elected, either: the
unique procedure is rather interesting, and seems to be based on an
attempt to retain the better features, or potential features, of the
House of Lords and lose the absurdities. More at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_senate
--
Mike.
wrote:
unique procedure is rather interesting, and seems to be based on an
attempt to retain the better features, or potential features, of the
House of Lords and lose the absurdities. More at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_senate
--
Mike.
R H Draney
Nov 11, 2012, 3:52:27 PM11/11/12
to
Athel Cornish-Bowden filted:
Where does that fit into the timeline with the decision that they didn't like
punctuation or lowercase?...r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
punctuation or lowercase?...r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Adam Funk
Nov 11, 2012, 4:10:25 PM11/11/12
to
On 2012-11-11, R H Draney wrote:
> WHERE DOES THAT FIT INTO THE TIMELINE WITH THE DECISION THAT THEY DIDN'T LIKE
> PUNCTUATION OR LOWERCASE R
IFYPFY
--
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to
chance. [Robert R. Coveyou]
> WHERE DOES THAT FIT INTO THE TIMELINE WITH THE DECISION THAT THEY DIDN'T LIKE
> PUNCTUATION OR LOWERCASE R
IFYPFY
--
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to
chance. [Robert R. Coveyou]
Message has been deleted
Message has been deleted
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
Nov 11, 2012, 10:03:09 PM11/11/12
to
Lewis wrote:
>
> Guy Barry wrote:
>>
>> ... what about York?
>
> Yorick?
>
Alas, poor Yorick!
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Rey's my name,
Lashon HaRa's my game.
>
> Guy Barry wrote:
>>
>> ... what about York?
>
> Yorick?
>
Alas, poor Yorick!
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Rey's my name,
Lashon HaRa's my game.
Message has been deleted
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
Nov 11, 2012, 11:57:45 PM11/11/12
to
Lewis wrote:
>
Not well. I met him only once in a Bavarian hamlet near Straubing.
But he was a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy.
>
> Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>> Lewis wrote:
>>> Guy Barry wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ... what about York?
>>>
>>> Yorick?
>>>
>> Alas, poor Yorick!
>
> Oh? Did you know him?
> Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>> Lewis wrote:
>>> Guy Barry wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ... what about York?
>>>
>>> Yorick?
>>>
>> Alas, poor Yorick!
>
>
Not well. I met him only once in a Bavarian hamlet near Straubing.
But he was a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy.
Message has been deleted
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Nov 12, 2012, 1:27:50 AM11/12/12
to
On 2012-11-12 02:52:25 +0000, Lewis said:
> In message <ToLns.456437$Ol2.4...@fx25.am4>
> Provincetown yields Provincetonian as well.
Tes, but they are not adding "onian", they are adding "ian", which is
prett much the stanadrd thing to do when there is nothing more fancy on
offer.
--
athel
> In message <ToLns.456437$Ol2.4...@fx25.am4>
> Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>> "Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
>> news:ag98tj...@mid.individual.net...
>
>>> On 2012-11-11 08:07:36 +0000, Guy Barry said:
>
>> ["-land"/"-ish"]
>>>> I think it's generally true for European countries, though.
>
>>> Holland (if you regard that as the name of a country)? The Netherlands?
>
>> OK, good point.
>
>>> I note, incidentally, that you live in a city that forms its adjective in
>>> a way no other British city (to my knowledge) does.
>
>> I don't know of another one that adds "-onian" directly to the name,
>
> Perhaps not in Britain, but Boston yields Bostonian, and I think
>
>
>> "Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
>> news:ag98tj...@mid.individual.net...
>
>>> On 2012-11-11 08:07:36 +0000, Guy Barry said:
>
>> ["-land"/"-ish"]
>>>> I think it's generally true for European countries, though.
>
>>> Holland (if you regard that as the name of a country)? The Netherlands?
>
>> OK, good point.
>
>>> I note, incidentally, that you live in a city that forms its adjective in
>>> a way no other British city (to my knowledge) does.
>
>> I don't know of another one that adds "-onian" directly to the name,
>
> Provincetown yields Provincetonian as well.
Tes, but they are not adding "onian", they are adding "ian", which is
prett much the stanadrd thing to do when there is nothing more fancy on
offer.
>
>> although "Aberdeen" forms "Aberdonian". But then there aren't many British
>> cities with monosyllabic names. I believe Hull forms "Hullensian" - what
>> about York?
>
> Yorick?
>> although "Aberdeen" forms "Aberdonian". But then there aren't many British
>> cities with monosyllabic names. I believe Hull forms "Hullensian" - what
>> about York?
>
--
athel
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Nov 12, 2012, 1:35:14 AM11/12/12
to
>
> "Oxford man dies in nuclear holocaust"
That illustrates what someone was querying earlier: that most of these
> "Oxford man dies in nuclear holocaust"
names are not actually used in practice. I'd be quite surprised to see
"Oxonian dies …" in a headline.
Of those that are commonly used, I don't think there are many apart
from Mancunian, Liverpudlian, Glaswegian and maybe one or two others.
--
athel
Message has been deleted
Guy Barry
Nov 12, 2012, 2:24:15 AM11/12/12
to
"Mike L" wrote in message
news:s520a8d9ask46adid...@4ax.com...
> The Irish Senate (while it lasts) isn't popularly elected, either: the
> unique procedure is rather interesting, and seems to be based on an
> attempt to retain the better features, or potential features, of the
> House of Lords and lose the absurdities. More at:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_senate
Eleven appointed by the Taoiseach (prime minister).
Six elected by the graduates of certain Irish universities:
Three by graduates of the University of Dublin.
Three by graduates of the National University of Ireland.
43 elected from five special panels of nominees (known as Vocational Panels)
by an electorate consisting of TDs (member of Dáil Éireann), senators and
local councillors. Nomination is restrictive for the panel seats with only
Oireachtas members and designated 'nominating bodies' entitled to nominate.
Each of the five panels consists, in theory, of individuals possessing
special knowledge of, or experience in, one of five specific fields. In
practice the nominees are party members, often, though not always, failed or
aspiring Dáil candidates."
So that's eleven appointed by direct political patronage, 43 who are
supposedly specialists in their fields but actually party nominees, and six
(incredibly) elected by the university vote - which I think this country
abolished in 1945. Why on earth should graduates of certain universities
have voting privileges denied to the rest of the population? Isn't that
anti-democratic?
--
Guy Barry
Garrett Wollman
Nov 12, 2012, 2:30:00 AM11/12/12
to
In article <zu1os.251709$9D6.1...@fx27.am4>,
were the only relevant value, all parliaments would be unicameral.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Guy Barry <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>So that's eleven appointed by direct political patronage, 43 who are
>supposedly specialists in their fields but actually party nominees, and six
>(incredibly) elected by the university vote - which I think this country
>abolished in 1945. Why on earth should graduates of certain universities
>have voting privileges denied to the rest of the population? Isn't that
>anti-democratic?
What on earth do you think an upper house is *for*? If "democratic"
>So that's eleven appointed by direct political patronage, 43 who are
>supposedly specialists in their fields but actually party nominees, and six
>(incredibly) elected by the university vote - which I think this country
>abolished in 1945. Why on earth should graduates of certain universities
>have voting privileges denied to the rest of the population? Isn't that
>anti-democratic?
were the only relevant value, all parliaments would be unicameral.
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Guy Barry
Nov 12, 2012, 3:07:50 AM11/12/12
to
"Lewis" wrote in message news:slrnka0p39....@mbp55.local...
> > "Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
> > news:ag98tj...@mid.individual.net...
> > news:ag98tj...@mid.individual.net...
> >> I note, incidentally, that you live in a city that forms its adjective
> >> in
> >> a way no other British city (to my knowledge) does.
> > I don't know of another one that adds "-onian" directly to the name,
> >> in
> >> a way no other British city (to my knowledge) does.
> > I don't know of another one that adds "-onian" directly to the name,
> Perhaps not in Britain, but Boston yields Bostonian, and I think
> Provincetown yields Provincetonian as well.
Neither of those adds "-onian" directly to the name; they're not
> Provincetown yields Provincetonian as well.
"Bostononian" and "Provincetownonian". As already mentioned in the thread,
there are several British demonyms ending in "-onian", but I still think
Bath is unique in forming "Bathonian", probably because it's monosyllabic.
We don't have too many monosyllabic cities - I've mentioned Hull, York and
Leeds (which interestingly are all in Yorkshire). Can British posters think
of others?
--
Guy Barry
Guy Barry
Nov 12, 2012, 3:21:00 AM11/12/12
to
"Lewis" wrote in message news:slrnka12vq....@mbp55.local...
[Alas, poor Yorick!]
> The answer I was fishing for was,
> "Aye, knew him well."
I'm sure you're aware that Shakespeare didn't write "I knew him well".
--
Guy Barry
Guy Barry
Nov 12, 2012, 3:26:12 AM11/12/12
to
"Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
["Bath"/"Bathonian"]
> Yes, but they are not adding "onian", they are adding "ian", which is
> pretty much the standard thing to do when there is nothing more fancy on
> offer.
I've just remembered that there's a local scandal sheet here called "The
Bath Onion". Wouldn't work anywhere else.
--
Guy Barry
Guy Barry
Nov 12, 2012, 3:31:46 AM11/12/12
to
"Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
> That illustrates what someone was querying earlier: that most of these
> names are not actually used in practice. I'd be quite surprised to see
> "Oxonian dies …" in a headline.
University of Oxford rather than a resident of the city?
> Of those that are commonly used, I don't think there are many apart from
> Mancunian, Liverpudlian, Glaswegian and maybe one or two others.
thousand times more often than "Novocastrian" and "Birminghamian" (I
actually had to look the second one up).
--
Guy Barry
Athel Cornish-Bowden
Nov 12, 2012, 4:45:15 AM11/12/12
to
On 2012-11-12 08:31:46 +0000, Guy Barry said:
> "Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
> news:agbjkq...@mid.individual.net...
>
>> That illustrates what someone was querying earlier: that most of these
>> names are not actually used in practice. I'd be quite surprised to see
>> "Oxonian dies …" in a headline.
>
> Isn't "Oxonian" normally used to refer to a member or graduate of the
> University of Oxford rather than a resident of the city?
Yes, but even then I'd expect "Oxford graduate" (or whatever) rather
> "Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
> news:agbjkq...@mid.individual.net...
>
>> That illustrates what someone was querying earlier: that most of these
>> names are not actually used in practice. I'd be quite surprised to see
>> "Oxonian dies …" in a headline.
>
> Isn't "Oxonian" normally used to refer to a member or graduate of the
> University of Oxford rather than a resident of the city?
than "Oxonian". Likewise "Salopian" (rather an awkward name to be
saddled with if one lives in France) nearly always refers to the school
rather than the town.
>
>> Of those that are commonly used, I don't think there are many apart
>> from Mancunian, Liverpudlian, Glaswegian and maybe one or two others.
>
> "Bristolian" is certainly used. But I've heard "Geordie" and "Brummie"
> a thousand times more often than "Novocastrian" and "Birminghamian" (I
> actually had to look the second one up).
--
athel
>> Of those that are commonly used, I don't think there are many apart
>> from Mancunian, Liverpudlian, Glaswegian and maybe one or two others.
>
> "Bristolian" is certainly used. But I've heard "Geordie" and "Brummie"
> a thousand times more often than "Novocastrian" and "Birminghamian" (I
> actually had to look the second one up).
--
Donna Richoux
Nov 12, 2012, 5:47:38 AM11/12/12
to
R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> filted:
> (Icelandic) Íslenska = (English) English
> (English) English = (Icelandic) English
>
The first and third look like Google Translate's general policy of
leaving capitalized English words alone.
An example. Using English-Dutch, Google Translate gives:
I have a Popsicle. -> Ik heb een Popsicle.
I have a popsicle. -> Ik heb een ijslolly.
I don't know under what circumstances it translates capitalized nouns. I
do see these results:
I have a Dog. -> Ik heb een hond.
He has the nature of Dog. -> Hij heeft de aard van de hond.
But also this:
He is essence of Dog. -> Hij is essentie van Dog.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
> Peter Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> filted:
> >
> >"Iceland" is the English form of the Icelandic "Island".
> >And according to Wikip "Island" is pronounced as "eeslant".
> >
> >According to Google Translate:
> > (English) Icelander = (Icelandic) Íslendingur
> >"Iceland" is the English form of the Icelandic "Island".
> >And according to Wikip "Island" is pronounced as "eeslant".
> >
> >According to Google Translate:
>
> Google Translate has some issues in this area:
> (English) Icelandic = (Icelandic) Icelandic
> Google Translate has some issues in this area:
> (Icelandic) Íslenska = (English) English
> (English) English = (Icelandic) English
>
The first and third look like Google Translate's general policy of
leaving capitalized English words alone.
An example. Using English-Dutch, Google Translate gives:
I have a Popsicle. -> Ik heb een Popsicle.
I have a popsicle. -> Ik heb een ijslolly.
I don't know under what circumstances it translates capitalized nouns. I
do see these results:
I have a Dog. -> Ik heb een hond.
He has the nature of Dog. -> Hij heeft de aard van de hond.
But also this:
He is essence of Dog. -> Hij is essentie van Dog.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Nov 12, 2012, 7:49:48 AM11/12/12
to
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:24:15 -0000, "Guy Barry"
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>"Mike L" wrote in message
>news:s520a8d9ask46adid...@4ax.com...
>
>> The Irish Senate (while it lasts) isn't popularly elected, either: the
>> unique procedure is rather interesting, and seems to be based on an
>> attempt to retain the better features, or potential features, of the
>> House of Lords and lose the absurdities. More at:
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_senate
>
>" Seanad �ireann consists of sixty senators:
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>"Mike L" wrote in message
>news:s520a8d9ask46adid...@4ax.com...
>
>> The Irish Senate (while it lasts) isn't popularly elected, either: the
>> unique procedure is rather interesting, and seems to be based on an
>> attempt to retain the better features, or potential features, of the
>> House of Lords and lose the absurdities. More at:
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_senate
>
>
>Eleven appointed by the Taoiseach (prime minister).
>Six elected by the graduates of certain Irish universities:
> Three by graduates of the University of Dublin.
> Three by graduates of the National University of Ireland.
>43 elected from five special panels of nominees (known as Vocational Panels)
>by an electorate consisting of TDs (member of D�il �ireann), senators and
>Eleven appointed by the Taoiseach (prime minister).
>Six elected by the graduates of certain Irish universities:
> Three by graduates of the University of Dublin.
> Three by graduates of the National University of Ireland.
>43 elected from five special panels of nominees (known as Vocational Panels)
>local councillors. Nomination is restrictive for the panel seats with only
>Oireachtas members and designated 'nominating bodies' entitled to nominate.
>Each of the five panels consists, in theory, of individuals possessing
>special knowledge of, or experience in, one of five specific fields. In
>practice the nominees are party members, often, though not always, failed or
>aspiring D�il candidates."
>Oireachtas members and designated 'nominating bodies' entitled to nominate.
>Each of the five panels consists, in theory, of individuals possessing
>special knowledge of, or experience in, one of five specific fields. In
>practice the nominees are party members, often, though not always, failed or
>
>So that's eleven appointed by direct political patronage, 43 who are
>supposedly specialists in their fields but actually party nominees, and six
>(incredibly) elected by the university vote - which I think this country
>abolished in 1945. Why on earth should graduates of certain universities
>have voting privileges denied to the rest of the population? Isn't that
>anti-democratic?
I don't think it is intended as a democratic arrangement in the sense of
>So that's eleven appointed by direct political patronage, 43 who are
>supposedly specialists in their fields but actually party nominees, and six
>(incredibly) elected by the university vote - which I think this country
>abolished in 1945. Why on earth should graduates of certain universities
>have voting privileges denied to the rest of the population? Isn't that
>anti-democratic?
senators being representative of the people. The senators are chosen for
their knowledge and ability by people of knowledge and ability. My
interpretation is that they are analogous to professionals chosen by
professionals.
Such a system is surely of some value when so many elected politicians
are ignoramuses.
The status of the Irish Senate in relation to the lower house is similar
to that of the UK House of Lords to the House of Commons.
The University of Dublin and the National University of Ireland were, I
think, the only universities existing at the time the constitution was
written.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Guy Barry
Nov 12, 2012, 7:57:23 AM11/12/12
to
"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
news:6dr1a8h095qf0vu15...@4ax.com...
[Irish Seanad]
> I don't think it is intended as a democratic arrangement in the sense of
> senators being representative of the people. The senators are chosen for
> their knowledge and ability by people of knowledge and ability. My
> interpretation is that they are analogous to professionals chosen by
> professionals.
If it's such a great idea, then why is the government planning to abolish
> senators being representative of the people. The senators are chosen for
> their knowledge and ability by people of knowledge and ability. My
> interpretation is that they are analogous to professionals chosen by
> professionals.
it?
' In October 2009, Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny stated that it was his
intention that a Fine Gael government would abolish the Seanad, and along
with reducing the number of TDs by 20, it would "save an estimated €150m
over the term of a Dáil." In the 2011 election campaign, Labour and Sinn
Féin also promised to abolish the Seanad, while Fianna Fáil supported a
referendum on the issue. The programme of the Fine Gael–Labour coalition,
which came to power at the election, promises to abolish the Seanad as part
of a broader programme of constitutional reform. '
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seanad_%C3%89ireann#Prospective_abolition
--
Guy Barry
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Nov 12, 2012, 8:12:57 AM11/12/12
to
towns and cities. Apart from those you have mentioned there are only the
Scottish towns of Ayr and Wick which are monosyllabic.
[1] last year's edition of:
http://www.octopusbooks.co.uk/philips-maps/books/maps/9781849072342/philips-5-star-navigator-britain/
Guy Barry
Nov 12, 2012, 8:20:35 AM11/12/12
to
"Peter Duncanson [BrE]" wrote in message
> >[...] I still think
> >Bath is unique in forming "Bathonian", probably because it's
> >monosyllabic.
> >We don't have too many monosyllabic cities - I've mentioned Hull, York
> >and
> >Leeds (which interestingly are all in Yorkshire). Can British posters
> >think
> >of others?
> I have a road atlas of Britain[1] which includes street maps of some
> towns and cities. Apart from those you have mentioned there are only the
> Scottish towns of Ayr and Wick which are monosyllabic.
Well they're not cities, but there's no reason why we can't include major
> >monosyllabic.
> >We don't have too many monosyllabic cities - I've mentioned Hull, York
> >and
> >Leeds (which interestingly are all in Yorkshire). Can British posters
> >think
> >of others?
> I have a road atlas of Britain[1] which includes street maps of some
> towns and cities. Apart from those you have mentioned there are only the
> Scottish towns of Ayr and Wick which are monosyllabic.
towns as well. Unfortunately I can't find a demonym for either.
--
Guy Barry
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Nov 12, 2012, 8:55:31 AM11/12/12
to
Perhaps it is a matter of principle. Perhaps they want to be seen doing
something apparently significant. Fixing the Irish economy can't be done
with a stroke of a pen, but abolishing the Senate would be much easier.
Nick Spalding
Nov 12, 2012, 9:47:48 AM11/12/12
to
Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote, in
<6dr1a8h095qf0vu15...@4ax.com>
on Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:49:48 +0000:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:24:15 -0000, "Guy Barry"
> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >"Mike L" wrote in message
> >news:s520a8d9ask46adid...@4ax.com...
> >
> >> The Irish Senate (while it lasts) isn't popularly elected, either: the
> >> unique procedure is rather interesting, and seems to be based on an
> >> attempt to retain the better features, or potential features, of the
> >> House of Lords and lose the absurdities. More at:
> >
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_senate
> >
> >" Seanad Éireann consists of sixty senators:
University College Dublin, UC Cork, UC Galway and some other newer ones.
Apart from UCD I don't know which of the others existed when the 1937
constitution was established.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
<6dr1a8h095qf0vu15...@4ax.com>
on Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:49:48 +0000:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:24:15 -0000, "Guy Barry"
> <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >"Mike L" wrote in message
> >news:s520a8d9ask46adid...@4ax.com...
> >
> >> The Irish Senate (while it lasts) isn't popularly elected, either: the
> >> unique procedure is rather interesting, and seems to be based on an
> >> attempt to retain the better features, or potential features, of the
> >> House of Lords and lose the absurdities. More at:
> >
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_senate
> >
> >
> >Eleven appointed by the Taoiseach (prime minister).
> >Six elected by the graduates of certain Irish universities:
> > Three by graduates of the University of Dublin.
> > Three by graduates of the National University of Ireland.
> >43 elected from five special panels of nominees (known as Vocational Panels)
> >by an electorate consisting of TDs (member of Dáil Éireann), senators and
> >Eleven appointed by the Taoiseach (prime minister).
> >Six elected by the graduates of certain Irish universities:
> > Three by graduates of the University of Dublin.
> > Three by graduates of the National University of Ireland.
> >43 elected from five special panels of nominees (known as Vocational Panels)
> >local councillors. Nomination is restrictive for the panel seats with only
> >Oireachtas members and designated 'nominating bodies' entitled to nominate.
> >Each of the five panels consists, in theory, of individuals possessing
> >special knowledge of, or experience in, one of five specific fields. In
> >practice the nominees are party members, often, though not always, failed or
> >aspiring Dáil candidates."
> >Oireachtas members and designated 'nominating bodies' entitled to nominate.
> >Each of the five panels consists, in theory, of individuals possessing
> >special knowledge of, or experience in, one of five specific fields. In
> >practice the nominees are party members, often, though not always, failed or
> >
> >So that's eleven appointed by direct political patronage, 43 who are
> >supposedly specialists in their fields but actually party nominees, and six
> >(incredibly) elected by the university vote - which I think this country
> >abolished in 1945. Why on earth should graduates of certain universities
> >have voting privileges denied to the rest of the population? Isn't that
> >anti-democratic?
>
> I don't think it is intended as a democratic arrangement in the sense of
> senators being representative of the people. The senators are chosen for
> their knowledge and ability by people of knowledge and ability. My
> interpretation is that they are analogous to professionals chosen by
> professionals.
>
> Such a system is surely of some value when so many elected politicians
> are ignoramuses.
>
> The status of the Irish Senate in relation to the lower house is similar
> to that of the UK House of Lords to the House of Commons.
>
> The University of Dublin and the National University of Ireland were, I
> think, the only universities existing at the time the constitution was
> written.
The National University of Ireland is an umbrella title containing
> >So that's eleven appointed by direct political patronage, 43 who are
> >supposedly specialists in their fields but actually party nominees, and six
> >(incredibly) elected by the university vote - which I think this country
> >abolished in 1945. Why on earth should graduates of certain universities
> >have voting privileges denied to the rest of the population? Isn't that
> >anti-democratic?
>
> I don't think it is intended as a democratic arrangement in the sense of
> senators being representative of the people. The senators are chosen for
> their knowledge and ability by people of knowledge and ability. My
> interpretation is that they are analogous to professionals chosen by
> professionals.
>
> Such a system is surely of some value when so many elected politicians
> are ignoramuses.
>
> The status of the Irish Senate in relation to the lower house is similar
> to that of the UK House of Lords to the House of Commons.
>
> The University of Dublin and the National University of Ireland were, I
> think, the only universities existing at the time the constitution was
> written.
University College Dublin, UC Cork, UC Galway and some other newer ones.
Apart from UCD I don't know which of the others existed when the 1937
constitution was established.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
Paul Wolff
Nov 12, 2012, 12:24:46 PM11/12/12
to
In message <Eo2os.375640$9H4.3...@fx17.am4>, Guy Barry
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>Wouldn't work anywhere else.
--
Paul
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>
>
>"Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
>news:agbj6u...@mid.individual.net...
>
>["Bath"/"Bathonian"]
>
>> Yes, but they are not adding "onian", they are adding "ian", which is
>>pretty much the standard thing to do when there is nothing more fancy
>>on offer.
>
>I've just remembered that there's a local scandal sheet here called
>"The Bath Onion".
So you had to put in a plug for it?
>
>"Athel Cornish-Bowden" wrote in message
>news:agbj6u...@mid.individual.net...
>
>["Bath"/"Bathonian"]
>
>> Yes, but they are not adding "onian", they are adding "ian", which is
>>pretty much the standard thing to do when there is nothing more fancy
>>on offer.
>
>I've just remembered that there's a local scandal sheet here called
>"The Bath Onion".
>Wouldn't work anywhere else.
--
Paul Wolff
Nov 12, 2012, 12:29:05 PM11/12/12
to
In message <23t1a8d4lfivj2o6p...@4ax.com>, "Peter
Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes
I don't think Slough has a special adjective. It has to make do with
bog-standard.
--
Paul
Duncanson [BrE]" <ma...@peterduncanson.net> writes
>On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 08:07:50 -0000, "Guy Barry"
>>"Lewis" wrote in message news:slrnka0p39....@mbp55.local...
>>> >> I note, incidentally, that you live in a city that forms its adjective
>>> >> in
>>> >> a way no other British city (to my knowledge) does.
>>
>>> > I don't know of another one that adds "-onian" directly to the name,
>>
>>> Perhaps not in Britain, but Boston yields Bostonian, and I think
>>> Provincetown yields Provincetonian as well.
>>
>>Neither of those adds "-onian" directly to the name; they're not
>>"Bostononian" and "Provincetownonian". As already mentioned in the thread,
>>there are several British demonyms ending in "-onian", but I still think
>>Bath is unique in forming "Bathonian", probably because it's monosyllabic.
>>We don't have too many monosyllabic cities - I've mentioned Hull, York and
>>Leeds (which interestingly are all in Yorkshire). Can British posters think
>>of others?
>
>I have a road atlas of Britain[1] which includes street maps of some
>towns and cities. Apart from those you have mentioned there are only the
>Scottish towns of Ayr and Wick which are monosyllabic.
>
Slough isn't a city either, but it's far bigger than Ayr or Wick.
>>> >> in
>>> >> a way no other British city (to my knowledge) does.
>>
>>> > I don't know of another one that adds "-onian" directly to the name,
>>
>>> Perhaps not in Britain, but Boston yields Bostonian, and I think
>>> Provincetown yields Provincetonian as well.
>>
>>Neither of those adds "-onian" directly to the name; they're not
>>"Bostononian" and "Provincetownonian". As already mentioned in the thread,
>>there are several British demonyms ending in "-onian", but I still think
>>Bath is unique in forming "Bathonian", probably because it's monosyllabic.
>>We don't have too many monosyllabic cities - I've mentioned Hull, York and
>>Leeds (which interestingly are all in Yorkshire). Can British posters think
>>of others?
>
>I have a road atlas of Britain[1] which includes street maps of some
>towns and cities. Apart from those you have mentioned there are only the
>Scottish towns of Ayr and Wick which are monosyllabic.
>
I don't think Slough has a special adjective. It has to make do with
bog-standard.
--
Paul
Guy Barry
Nov 12, 2012, 12:43:55 PM11/12/12
to
"Paul Wolff" wrote in message news:P1qOX4le...@fpwolff.demon.co.uk...
> >I've just remembered that there's a local scandal sheet here called "The
> >Bath Onion".
> So you had to put in a plug for it?
Bath doesn't need plugging.
> >Bath Onion".
> So you had to put in a plug for it?
--
Guy Barry
Guy Barry
Nov 12, 2012, 12:45:45 PM11/12/12
to
"Paul Wolff" wrote in message news:9FFCrjmh...@fpwolff.demon.co.uk...
> I don't think Slough has a special adjective. It has to make do with
> bog-standard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjectivals_and_demonyms_for_cities
--
Guy Barry
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Nov 12, 2012, 2:05:55 PM11/12/12
to
Dr Nick
Nov 12, 2012, 2:15:53 PM11/12/12
to
Athel Cornish-Bowden <acor...@imm.cnrs.fr> writes:
> Yes, but even then I'd expect "Oxford graduate" (or whatever) rather
> than "Oxonian". Likewise "Salopian" (rather an awkward name to be
> saddled with if one lives in France) nearly always refers to the
> school rather than the town.
In my use it invariably refers to the (excellent, if a little
> Yes, but even then I'd expect "Oxford graduate" (or whatever) rather
> than "Oxonian". Likewise "Salopian" (rather an awkward name to be
> saddled with if one lives in France) nearly always refers to the
> school rather than the town.
idiosyncratic) beer.
http://www.salopianbrewery.co.uk/
As you may have worked out by now, in my use almost everything refers to
waterways or beer.
Dr Nick
Nov 12, 2012, 2:17:40 PM11/12/12
to
Dr Nick
Nov 12, 2012, 2:19:18 PM11/12/12
to
"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
> Neither of those adds "-onian" directly to the name; they're not
> "Bostononian" and "Provincetownonian". As already mentioned in the
> thread, there are several British demonyms ending in "-onian", but I
> still think Bath is unique in forming "Bathonian", probably because
> it's monosyllabic. We don't have too many monosyllabic cities - I've
> mentioned Hull, York and Leeds (which interestingly are all in
> Yorkshire). Can British posters think of others?
If you're allowing Hull I'll have Stoke.
> Neither of those adds "-onian" directly to the name; they're not
> "Bostononian" and "Provincetownonian". As already mentioned in the
> thread, there are several British demonyms ending in "-onian", but I
> still think Bath is unique in forming "Bathonian", probably because
> it's monosyllabic. We don't have too many monosyllabic cities - I've
> mentioned Hull, York and Leeds (which interestingly are all in
> Yorkshire). Can British posters think of others?
Wells?
R H Draney
Nov 12, 2012, 2:42:24 PM11/12/12
to
Dr Nick filted:
Sounds like a poor man's answer to the rubber ducky....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
R H Draney
Nov 12, 2012, 2:43:32 PM11/12/12
to
Paul Wolff filted:
>
>Slough isn't a city either, but it's far bigger than Ayr or Wick.
>
>I don't think Slough has a special adjective. It has to make do with
>bog-standard.
No wonder they're in despond....r
>Slough isn't a city either, but it's far bigger than Ayr or Wick.
>
>I don't think Slough has a special adjective. It has to make do with
>bog-standard.
Peter Young
Nov 12, 2012, 3:21:04 PM11/12/12
to
Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Mike L
Nov 12, 2012, 4:03:11 PM11/12/12
to
On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 20:57:45 -0800, Reinhold {Rey} Aman
<am...@sonic.net> wrote:
>Lewis wrote:
>>
>> Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>>> Lewis wrote:
>>>> Guy Barry wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ... what about York?
>>>>
>>>> Yorick?
>>>>
>>> Alas, poor Yorick!
>>
>> Oh? Did you know him?
>>
>Not well. I met him only once in a Bavarian hamlet near Straubing.
>But he was a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy.
You were lucky. When it came to me, I got a flagon of Rhenish on me
'ead. Whoreson mad rogue.
--
Mike.
<am...@sonic.net> wrote:
>Lewis wrote:
>>
>> Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>>> Lewis wrote:
>>>> Guy Barry wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> ... what about York?
>>>>
>>>> Yorick?
>>>>
>>> Alas, poor Yorick!
>>
>> Oh? Did you know him?
>>
>Not well. I met him only once in a Bavarian hamlet near Straubing.
>But he was a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy.
You were lucky. When it came to me, I got a flagon of Rhenish on me
'ead. Whoreson mad rogue.
--
Mike.
Mike L
Nov 12, 2012, 4:06:57 PM11/12/12
to
>>>
>>Slough isn't a city either, but it's far bigger than Ayr or Wick.
>>
>>I don't think Slough has a special adjective. It has to make do with
>>bog-standard.
>
><smile>
--
Mike.
Mike L
Nov 12, 2012, 4:25:04 PM11/12/12
to
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 07:24:15 -0000, "Guy Barry"
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>"Mike L" wrote in message
>news:s520a8d9ask46adid...@4ax.com...
>
>> The Irish Senate (while it lasts) isn't popularly elected, either: the
>> unique procedure is rather interesting, and seems to be based on an
>> attempt to retain the better features, or potential features, of the
>> House of Lords and lose the absurdities. More at:
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_senate
>
>" Seanad �ireann consists of sixty senators:
<guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>"Mike L" wrote in message
>news:s520a8d9ask46adid...@4ax.com...
>
>> The Irish Senate (while it lasts) isn't popularly elected, either: the
>> unique procedure is rather interesting, and seems to be based on an
>> attempt to retain the better features, or potential features, of the
>> House of Lords and lose the absurdities. More at:
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_senate
>
>
>Eleven appointed by the Taoiseach (prime minister).
>Six elected by the graduates of certain Irish universities:
> Three by graduates of the University of Dublin.
> Three by graduates of the National University of Ireland.
>43 elected from five special panels of nominees (known as Vocational Panels)
>by an electorate consisting of TDs (member of D�il �ireann), senators and
>Eleven appointed by the Taoiseach (prime minister).
>Six elected by the graduates of certain Irish universities:
> Three by graduates of the University of Dublin.
> Three by graduates of the National University of Ireland.
>43 elected from five special panels of nominees (known as Vocational Panels)
>local councillors. Nomination is restrictive for the panel seats with only
>Oireachtas members and designated 'nominating bodies' entitled to nominate.
>Each of the five panels consists, in theory, of individuals possessing
>special knowledge of, or experience in, one of five specific fields. In
>practice the nominees are party members, often, though not always, failed or
>aspiring D�il candidates."
>Oireachtas members and designated 'nominating bodies' entitled to nominate.
>Each of the five panels consists, in theory, of individuals possessing
>special knowledge of, or experience in, one of five specific fields. In
>practice the nominees are party members, often, though not always, failed or
>
>So that's eleven appointed by direct political patronage, 43 who are
>supposedly specialists in their fields but actually party nominees, and six
>(incredibly) elected by the university vote - which I think this country
>abolished in 1945. Why on earth should graduates of certain universities
>have voting privileges denied to the rest of the population? Isn't that
>anti-democratic?
I didn't say it was democratic. I said it was interesting, and an
>So that's eleven appointed by direct political patronage, 43 who are
>supposedly specialists in their fields but actually party nominees, and six
>(incredibly) elected by the university vote - which I think this country
>abolished in 1945. Why on earth should graduates of certain universities
>have voting privileges denied to the rest of the population? Isn't that
>anti-democratic?
attempt to retain the better features of the House of Lords. I could
have added that it was remarkable for its time, and the British HofL
still hasn't caught up yet, when Ireland seems ready to move on.
--
Mike.
Guy Barry
Nov 12, 2012, 9:11:15 PM11/12/12
to
"Dr Nick" wrote in message news:87bof27...@temporary-address.org.uk...
> "Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:
> > We don't have too many monosyllabic cities - I've
> > mentioned Hull, York and Leeds (which interestingly are all in
> > Yorkshire). Can British posters think of others?
> If you're allowing Hull I'll have Stoke.
Hull of course.
> Wells?
How silly of me! Not far from here, and I was brought up in that area.
It's so small that it's easy to forget that it's a city (and one with a very
fine cathedral). Don't know of a demonym for either Stoke or Wells though.
Looking through the list of British cities, the only one that doesn't seem
to have been mentioned so far is Perth. Inhabitants of the Australian one
are apparently called "Perthites", but what about the Scottish one?
--
Guy Barry
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