On the Front Burner
Richard Maurer
I meant to put this in the "First Cool Character on TV" thread
because a fan of Kookie site mentioned that Kookie was
responsible for popularizing the phrase.
Was it essentially unknown before beat times?
Was it a beatnik phrase?
Was Kookie the main vector to the mainstream?
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Donna Richoux
> "On the front burner", "on the back burner", who started these?
>
> I meant to put this in the "First Cool Character on TV" thread
> because a fan of Kookie site mentioned that Kookie was
> responsible for popularizing the phrase.
>
> Was it essentially unknown before beat times?
Apparently so. That is, not recorded in print until 1963.
> Was it a beatnik phrase?
No, why? Were there beatniks in the show? I don't associate them with
cooking on woodstoves, anyway.
> Was Kookie the main vector to the mainstream?
Not mentioned by name in RHHDAS.
RHHDAS only has citations for this metaphorical use from 1963 on. MWll
agrees. Since "77 Sunset Strip" ran from 1958 to 1964, that's right
within that range.
I don't know anything about the show. Was Kookie a source of country-boy
lore or something? Cooking on woodstoves is much more common in the
country.
I can't find when "burner" started to be used for that part of a
cookstove.
Just in case anyone is puzzled: in a woodburning cookstove (and probably
a coal-burning one, too) the idea was that the back of the cooking
surface was cooler, so you'd push pots there as a way of turning the
heat down, and bring them up front to make them boil faster. Nowadays we
can just turn a knob to change the heat.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Areff
> "On the front burner", "on the back burner", who started these?
>
> I meant to put this in the "First Cool Character on TV" thread
> because a fan of Kookie site mentioned that Kookie was
> responsible for popularizing the phrase.
>
> Was it essentially unknown before beat times?
I'm not even familiar with any "on the front burner" expression, but
ProQuest reveals that in 1944 "cooking on the front burner" was listed,
along with "cooking with gas", in an article on teenage slang, and was
defined as "Doin' all right; on the beam; okay."
I find an earlier usage of "cooking on the front burner", in a
Washington Post column by Maury Povich's father Shirley from 1942:
Picturesque reporting: Lieut. Al Hailey, former Post boxing writer now
with the United States Army Air Force, calbes from somewhere in the
Pacific, "Hello, am now cooking on the front burner"...
The earliest usage of "on the back burner" I could find was from 1949
(Washington Post):
hope that tax relief for business is on the back burner at Washington
> Was it a beatnik phrase?
> Was Kookie the main vector to the mainstream?
Doesn't look that way. It probably wasn't much older than the '40s. I
wonder whether "something being on the back burner" is a direct
consequence of "cooking on the front burner".
--
Frances Kemmish
> Just in case anyone is puzzled: in a woodburning cookstove (and probably
> a coal-burning one, too) the idea was that the back of the cooking
> surface was cooler, so you'd push pots there as a way of turning the
> heat down, and bring them up front to make them boil faster. Nowadays we
> can just turn a knob to change the heat.
>
It never occurred to me that it might be a reference to wood or
coal-burning stoves. My mother's gas cooker had burners. The front ones
could be turned up to a much higher flame - and would boil a pan of
water much faster - than the back ones.
Fran
John Dean
> Richard Maurer <rcpb1_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> "On the front burner", "on the back burner", who started these?
>>
>> I meant to put this in the "First Cool Character on TV" thread
>> because a fan of Kookie site mentioned that Kookie was
>> responsible for popularizing the phrase.
>>
>
> country-boy lore or something? Cooking on woodstoves is much more
> common in the country.
>
hip credentials by using modern slang and combing his hair alot. Hence
the hit record 'Kookie Kookie lend me your comb'. Kookie was played by
Edward Byrnes.
--
John Dean
Oxford
Donna Richoux
Ah. I should have hedged. The connection between the older stoves and
the metaphor was purely my own assumption and not based on any
references I found. So it's quite possibly wrong.
...I have now gone looking for an article on the basics of woodstove
cooking to confirm that I'm not totally hallucinating.
http://wa.essortment.com/cookingonawoo_rjju.htm
Cooking on a wood stove
Who can resist the honest goodness a stew simmering on the back of
the stove....
The whole top of a wood cookstove becomes a cooking top, but the
hottest part and the place where you will do most of your frying
and boiling, is right over the firebox. Keep a close eye on food as
the stove can be hotter than you think - or cooler. To adjust the
rate of cooking, simply move the pan or pot to a cooler or hotter
area.
Depending on how the dampers are set, the hottest spot can be in
the center of the firebox, to the back, or near the area where the
pipe is. Fire follows a draft, so the hottest part will be in the
path of a draft.
...Use the back of the stove, on the corner farthest away from the
firebox, just as you would a crockpot...
So, at one time, this would have been common knowledge. But if early
gas/oil stoves were designed to do something similar, the same metaphor
would apply.
John Varela
wrote:
> Kookie was played by Edward Byrnes.
Edd Byrnes. (Real name Edward Byrne Breitenberger).
Photo at http://home.att.net/~boomers.fifties.pinups/page15.html
More on the TV show at http://www.tvparty.com/77.html
--
John Varela
(Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.)
I apologize for munging the address but the spam was too much.
John Varela
> "cooking with gas"
I believe that phrase originated as an advertising slogan by the natural gas
industry. "Now you're cooking with gas!" Contemporary with "Quick, Henry!
The FLIT!"
Ben Zimmer
>
> Richard Maurer wrote:
> > "On the front burner", "on the back burner", who started these?
> >
> > I meant to put this in the "First Cool Character on TV" thread
> > because a fan of Kookie site mentioned that Kookie was
> > responsible for popularizing the phrase.
> >
> > Was it essentially unknown before beat times?
>
> I'm not even familiar with any "on the front burner" expression, but
> ProQuest reveals that in 1944 "cooking on the front burner" was listed,
> along with "cooking with gas", in an article on teenage slang, and was
> defined as "Doin' all right; on the beam; okay."
>
> I find an earlier usage of "cooking on the front burner", in a
> Washington Post column by Maury Povich's father Shirley from 1942:
>
> Picturesque reporting: Lieut. Al Hailey, former Post boxing writer now
> with the United States Army Air Force, calbes from somewhere in the
> Pacific, "Hello, am now cooking on the front burner"...
Here's what OED2 has (I'm sure OED3 will have antedatings):
cook, v.1
1. b. Slang phr. <to cook with gas> (or <electricity>,
<radar>): to succeed, to do very well; to act or think
correctly; also <to cook on the front (top) burner>. U.S.
1941 Star (Kansas City) 23 Feb., Now you're cooking with
electricity!
1942 Time 27 Apr. 84/3 Many a student..figured that..
Thurman Arnold was cooking with gas.
1945 L. SHELLY Jive Talk Dict. 23/1 Cooking on the front
burner, tops.
1946 F. WAKEMAN Hucksters (1947) xv. 201 Vic said, 'Good
boy, Georgie. Now you're cooking with radar.'
1958 N. D. HINTON in Publ. Amer. Dial. Soc. XXX. 39
Although 'cooking on the front burner' has long since
gone out of style, some musicians still refer to New York
as 'The Apple'.
[etc.]
I don't get "cooking with radar" -- was that just a facetious
alternative to "gas" and "electricity"?
Tony Cooper
Keep in mind that "The Hucksters" was a book, and later a movie, about
the advertising business. "Cooking with radar" would have been cool
hip-speak for the Mad Ave types.
Areff
>
> Here's what OED2 has (I'm sure OED3 will have antedatings):
> boy, Georgie. Now you're cooking with radar.'
> I don't get "cooking with radar" -- was that just a facetious
> alternative to "gas" and "electricity"?
I don't know. It would be useful to get the perspective of someone who
was intimate with radar at around that time -- someone who was in the
United States Merchant Marine during the War, say.
During the Korean War, Radar often contacted a counterpart in another
M.A.S.H. named Sparky, a radio operator of course. (Or was Sparky how
every radio operator addressed every other radio operator during an act of
radio operation?)
--
Ben Zimmer
Poking around, I see that 1946 also saw the introduction of the first
microwave oven, Raytheon's "Radarange" (so called because it developed
out of radar research -- when Percy Spencer discovered that a magnetron
had melted the chocolate bar in his pocket). A 1946 Chicago Tribune ad
for the magazine Science Illustrated has a picture with this caption:
COOKING WITH RADAR
A meal a minute! Science Illustrated tells
about the amazing new stove that cooks food
with incredible speed. On a Radarange (ready
for homes next year) food cooks itself!
Wishful thinking... domestic microwave ovens were only available in
1955, and countertop models in 1967.
Qp10qp
>From: "John Varela"
>> "cooking with gas"
>
>I believe that phrase originated as an advertising slogan by the natural gas
>industry. "Now you're cooking with gas!" Contemporary with "Quick, Henry!
>The FLIT!"
>
Colin, the Northern Irish disc jockey on Radio One, uses the expression
"sucking on diesel", which is a new one to me.
Peasemarch.
JNugent
>> Subject: Re: On the Front Burner
>> From: "John Varela"
>>> "cooking with gas"
>> I believe that phrase originated as an advertising slogan by the
>> natural gas industry. "Now you're cooking with gas!" Contemporary
>> with "Quick, Henry! The FLIT!"
Really?
I have more than a notion that "cooking with gas" (as a simile or metaphor)
predates the natural gas industry by few decades. Wasn't it musical term
back in the 1940s?
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 27/08/04
Areff
> Wishful thinking... domestic microwave ovens were only available in
> 1955, and countertop models in 1967.
And they were generally spelled "micro-wave ovens" well into the
Seventies, weren't they? (ITLTLIU.)
--
Mike Lyle
[...]
> Poking around, I see that 1946 also saw the introduction of the first
> microwave oven, Raytheon's "Radarange" (so called because it developed
> out of radar research -- when Percy Spencer discovered that a magnetron
> had melted the chocolate bar in his pocket). A 1946 Chicago Tribune ad
> for the magazine Science Illustrated has a picture with this caption:
>
> COOKING WITH RADAR
> A meal a minute! Science Illustrated tells
> about the amazing new stove that cooks food
> with incredible speed. On a Radarange (ready
> for homes next year) food cooks itself!
>
> Wishful thinking... domestic microwave ovens were only available in
> 1955, and countertop models in 1967.
Interesting, though. I was in the lecture-hall when James Lovelock
(_Gaia Hypothesis_) said he reckoned he'd invented microwave cookery
in a lab somewhere. As I unreliably remember it, I think they were
using diathermy to thaw frozen experimental animals, and he started
using the apparatus to warm up his lunch. I don't know the date he
said this happened, or remember whether he claimed to have suggested
the use of microwaves for defrosting the hamsters, rats, or whatever
they were.
Mike.
Donna Richoux
> Qp10qp wrote:
>
> >> Subject: Re: On the Front Burner
> >> From: "John Varela"
>
> >>> "cooking with gas"
>
> >> I believe that phrase originated as an advertising slogan by the
> >> natural gas industry. "Now you're cooking with gas!" Contemporary
> >> with "Quick, Henry! The FLIT!"
>
> Really?
>
> I have more than a notion that "cooking with gas" (as a simile or metaphor)
> predates the natural gas industry by few decades. Wasn't it musical term
> back in the 1940s?
Have you only had natural gas in your area starting a few decades after
1940? Where is that?
http://www.gaslights.com/history.asp
When William Murdock, a British engineer and
inventor, lighted his cottage with manufactured gas
in 1792, he literally opened up a whole new industry
and changed the living habits of the civilized
world. By 1798, he had developed his invention to a
point where he was using manufactured gas to light
his entire factory. And in 1804, Murdock built a gas
works to light a large cotton mill in Manchester,
England, with 900 burners.
The first public street lighting with gas took place
in Pall Mall in London on January 28, 1807...
http://www.bydesign.com/fossilfuels/links/html/natural_gas/gas_history.h
tml
[Natural gas] was used for illuminating purposes in
Fredonia, N.Y., as early as 1821 and the effect was
so striking compared to gas made from coal that a
German scientist hailed the beautuful, clear gas
lights as the eighth wonder of the world. Gas
associated with Pennsylvania oil was used for
industrial purposes first in Pittsburgh, and its
general use then spread to other industrial centers.
Then I thought, maybe you mean that using gas for *cooking* is a new
development. But then I find:
British inventor, James Sharp patented a gas stove
in 1826, the first successful gas stove to appear on
the market.
and
By the mid-1920s nearly 90% of Australians cooked
with gas...
Aha, RHHDAS has an entry to "cook with gas". It mentions "gas stoves
became common in the US just before WWl, but these expressions [meaning
'to do very well'] gained national currency only during the 1940's."
Their first citation for "cooking with gas" is Time Magazine, 1942.
Starting with 1960 there are music and jazz associations, as you
suggest.
--
Best - Donna Richoux
don groves
JNu...@AC30.freeofspamserve.co.uk wrote...
> Qp10qp wrote:
>
> >> Subject: Re: On the Front Burner
> >> From: "John Varela"
>
> >>> "cooking with gas"
>
> >> I believe that phrase originated as an advertising slogan by the
> >> natural gas industry. "Now you're cooking with gas!" Contemporary
> >> with "Quick, Henry! The FLIT!"
>
> Really?
>
> I have more than a notion that "cooking with gas" (as a simile or metaphor)
> predates the natural gas industry by few decades. Wasn't it musical term
> back in the 1940s?
Yes -- cookin', jivin', gassin', etc. In some places, jazz was
originally "jass", so the connection to "gas" may have started
from there. "That's a gas, man", was common in my youth.
--
dg
JNugent
> JNugent <JNu...@AC30.freeofspamserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> Qp10qp wrote:
>>>>> "cooking with gas"
>>>> I believe that phrase originated as an advertising slogan by the
>>>> natural gas industry. "Now you're cooking with gas!" Contemporary
>>>> with "Quick, Henry! The FLIT!"
>> Really?
>> I have more than a notion that "cooking with gas" (as a simile or
>> metaphor) predates the natural gas industry by few decades. Wasn't
>> it musical term back in the 1940s?
> Have you only had natural gas in your area starting a few decades
> after 1940? Where is that?
"Natural gas" (eg, tapped from under the North Sea) as distinct from gas
derived from coal (and leaving coke as a by-product).
[ ... ]
> Then I thought, maybe you mean that using gas for *cooking* is a new
> development....
No - I meant that the use of natural gas from under the sea was a more
recent development.
> Aha, RHHDAS has an entry to "cook with gas". It mentions "gas stoves
> became common in the US just before WWl, but these expressions
> [meaning 'to do very well'] gained national currency only during the
> 1940's." Their first citation for "cooking with gas" is Time
> Magazine, 1942.
That is what I meant. I had heard it only in cnnection with music, and
specifically, in connection with jazz, as another poster suggested.
Areff
> Yes -- cookin', jivin', gassin', etc. In some places, jazz was
> originally "jass", so the connection to "gas" may have started
> from there.
My guess is that it started in Chicago, where "jazz" is pronounced
like "jass" (or 'chass'?) even today. Just ask Erk to make a recording.
(I guess what's really going on is, Chicagoans don't lengthen the vowel
for a following /z/.)
--
Richard Maurer
It never occurred to me that it might be a reference to wood or
coal-burning stoves. My mother's gas cooker had burners.
The front ones could be turned up to a much higher flame -
and would boil a pan of water much faster - than the back ones.
I am wondering if the new-fangled gas cookers were designed
this way for some efficiency reason -- or as a marketing measure
to make their operation as familiar as possible to those who
had used the previous generation of cookers.
Could the heat on this cooker be smoothly adjusted -- or were
there only say three or five settings per burner?
Frances Kemmish
> Frances Kemmish wrote:
> It never occurred to me that it might be a reference to wood or
> coal-burning stoves. My mother's gas cooker had burners.
> The front ones could be turned up to a much higher flame -
> and would boil a pan of water much faster - than the back ones.
>
>
> I am wondering if the new-fangled gas cookers were designed
> this way for some efficiency reason -- or as a marketing measure
> to make their operation as familiar as possible to those who
> had used the previous generation of cookers.
>
The previous generation of cooking apparatus available in the kind of
house I grew up in was a coal-fired range with a pan stand that swung
over the fire to heat pans and kettles.
I think the reason for the cooker to have the slow burners at the back
has already been mentioned: to avoid having to reach over a simmering
pan to pick up a boiling kettle, or to turn food in a frying-pan.
> Could the heat on this cooker be smoothly adjusted -- or were
> there only say three or five settings per burner?
>
They were continuously adjustable, as far as I remember.
Fran
John Dean
> On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:03:27 UTC, "John Dean"
> <john...@frag.lineone.net> wrote:
>
>> Kookie was played by Edward Byrnes.
>
> Edd Byrnes. (Real name Edward Byrne Breitenberger).
>
He's used both names. He's also used Ed Byrnes.
--
John Dean
Oxford
Mike Lyle
Definitely, though it wasn't always easy to get the adjustment you
wanted (still better than my damned one-year-old electric cooker,
though). The taps on gas stoves evolved through several phases, from a
simple lever to a knob you turned, to a knob you had to push in before
it would turn. I remember being initially baffled by Italian ones
which went from "Off" to "Full" and then past "Full" to a "Low"
setting: neat when you got used to it, because you could turn to "Low"
without accidentally turning off.
Chinese retaurant gas stoves have a wonderful pedal control which
produces a big blast for stir-frying.
(A London colleague once told me his mother had the term "gas cooker"
so firmly planted in her mind that even when she changed to electric,
she still called the electric appliance "the gas-cooker". This, I
assume, must have been the result of a youth spent, like Fran's, with
a coal-fired range.)
On "stove" and "cooker", Beeton 1906 doesn't use "cooker", but "stove"
and "range"; but also "kitchener", which she defines as one which
isn't built in but can be moved. The "Canadian kitchener" is highly
praised.
I assume that the British preference for "cooker" is based on the
ambiguity of "stove": an Aga or Rayburn (few other brands remain)
stove is usually connected to the plumbing to heat water as well as
cook. There are also various stoves which heat but don't cook; and I
perceive a tendency to call these "heaters" rather than "stoves".
(AUE doesn't half expose what you didn't know you knew, along with
what you didn't know you didn't know!)
Mike.
John Varela
<JNu...@AC30.freeofspamserve.co.uk> wrote:
> > Have you only had natural gas in your area starting a few decades
> > after 1940? Where is that?
>
> "Natural gas" (eg, tapped from under the North Sea) as distinct from gas
> derived from coal (and leaving coke as a by-product).
>
> [ ... ]
>
> > Then I thought, maybe you mean that using gas for *cooking* is a new
> > development....
>
> No - I meant that the use of natural gas from under the sea was a more
> recent development.
We had natural gas for cooking when I was a child in the 1930s, and our house
had no-longer-used but still connected gas lighting outlets in the bedrooms.
According to
http://www.howarddrake.com/lodge/wordandphrase.asp
"Cooking with gas
"Meaning:
To be working fast, proceeding rapidly.
"Origin:
"Although common place today, gas stoves have not always been the norm. Gas
stoves started to be available in the 1800's, and until that time
woodstoves were the standard.
"Now you're "cooking with gas" comes from an old advertisement for gas
stoves. The phrase suggests that gas is faster, easier, cleaner, better
than cooking with wood."
I have no idea how autoritative the above is, but my recollection is that the
slogan was in advertising use in the 1940s.
Mickwick
[...]
>I assume that the British preference for "cooker" is based on the
>ambiguity of "stove": an Aga or Rayburn (few other brands remain)
>stove is usually connected to the plumbing to heat water as well as
>cook. There are also various stoves which heat but don't cook; and I
>perceive a tendency to call these "heaters" rather than "stoves".
>
>(AUE doesn't half expose what you didn't know you knew, along with
>what you didn't know you didn't know!)
(What about what you didn't know you didn't know you didn't know?)
Non-cooking stoves are universally known as 'stoves' in these parts.
'Heaters' are electric. Some heaters are designed to look like stoves,
and these might be described as 'electric stoves' rather than 'heaters'.
(I had a conversation only this morning in which all three terms were
used in this way.)
And both my stove and my range have back-boilers: one or both can heat
the tap-water and, if so desired, between one and three radiators, with
or without switching on a pump. The hot-water cupboard looks like a WW2
U-boat's control room, but it all works as intended, oddly enough.
It must be about a year now since I last boasted here that I do (did,
anyway) all of my cooking on a coal-fired range. I used to be
inordinately proud of this, for reasons that are mysterious even to me,
but in truth I'm getting a bit fed up with the dirty, inefficient and
slightly cracked old thing. (And old it certainly is: it's at least
sixty and is probably seventy or eighty.) I should have replaced it with
a bottle-gas-fired Stanley while I still had the money. Ho hum.
Instead, I've gradually moved much of my cooking - almost all during the
summer - to various camping stoves I've acquired over the years. Last
night, for example, I cooked my dinner on a lightweight petrol stove.
Ah, the freedom of the bachelor life!
Until about a year ago, the old Truburn retained one advantage over all
other cookers, stoves and ranges fired by any fuel whatsoever and to be
found anywhere outside of commercial kitchens anywhere in the world, I
reckoned. The hot-plate (28" wide, 8" deep, hot on the left, warm on the
right) could be made so hot - red-hot on occasion - that meat placed
directly upon it would cook to perfection: the fat reduced and crisped,
the flesh almost burnt on the outside, pink and juicy within. Eggs could
be cooked without fat and without sticking, vegetables could be softened
and charred. This was really why I hung onto the thing: I was sure that
other ranges wouldn't be able to do this (and perhaps they can't).
But, about a year ago, I finally discovered a cheap-ish South African
bottle-gas barbecue with a solid broiler plate (by Cadac). A truly
excellent device! Not quite as hot as the Truburn and a bit of a bugger
to clean in the kitchen sink if I haven't borrowed the neighbour's
pressure-washer, but quick to heat up and a much bigger cooking area.
And a bottle of gas lasts for months. It can fill the kitchen with
carbon monoxide if left on for too long with the front door shut, but
carbon monoxide is no problem for an ex-smoker (especially if he still
smokes cigars). I can't recommend it too highly. It comes with a nifty
carrying bag, too. Also, something called a skottel - a huge wok - but I
haven't really bothered with that yet.
Steve probably knows about Cadacs. Mmmmmm, lekker schmekker!
--
Mickwick
Donna Richoux
> According to
> http://www.howarddrake.com/lodge/wordandphrase.asp
>
> "Cooking with gas
> "Meaning:
> To be working fast, proceeding rapidly.
> "Origin:
> "Although common place today, gas stoves have not always been the norm. Gas
> stoves started to be available in the 1800's, and until that time
> woodstoves were the standard.
>
> "Now you're "cooking with gas" comes from an old advertisement for gas
> stoves. The phrase suggests that gas is faster, easier, cleaner, better
> than cooking with wood."
>
> I have no idea how autoritative the above is, but my recollection is that the
> slogan was in advertising use in the 1940s.
It's been surprisingly difficult to track down old advertising slogans
(where, when, who). I wonder if ProQuest processed the text of newspaper
advertisements as well as articles?
--
Hopeful -- Donna Richoux
Areff
> It's been surprisingly difficult to track down old advertising slogans
> (where, when, who). I wonder if ProQuest processed the text of newspaper
> advertisements as well as articles?
It does. Unfortunately I can't access ProQuest at the moment because of
some sort of firewall issue, but Zimms can probably help.
--
John Varela
wrote:
> 1946 F. WAKEMAN Hucksters (1947) xv. 201 Vic said, 'Good
> boy, Georgie. Now you're cooking with radar.'
>
> I don't get "cooking with radar" -- was that just a facetious
> alternative to "gas" and "electricity"?
This surely has to do with early microwave ovens. The first ones (at least in
the USA) were made by Raytheon and were called "Radaranges".
See Raytheon's 1996 annual report at
http://www.raytheon.com/finance/1996/annrpt/table/ar_msp08.html
"Fifty years after demonstrating the world's first RadarangeĊ½ microwave oven
for commercial use, Raytheon continues to..."
1996 less 50 years brings us to 1946, which fits the citatation.
Ben Zimmer
>
> On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 04:30:54 UTC, Ben Zimmer <bgzi...@midway.uchicago.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > 1946 F. WAKEMAN Hucksters (1947) xv. 201 Vic said, 'Good
> > boy, Georgie. Now you're cooking with radar.'
> >
> > I don't get "cooking with radar" -- was that just a facetious
> > alternative to "gas" and "electricity"?
>
> This surely has to do with early microwave ovens. The first ones (at least in
> the USA) were made by Raytheon and were called "Radaranges".
>
> See Raytheon's 1996 annual report at
> http://www.raytheon.com/finance/1996/annrpt/table/ar_msp08.html
>
> "Fifty years after demonstrating the world's first RadarangeĊ½ microwave oven
> for commercial use, Raytheon continues to..."
>
> 1996 less 50 years brings us to 1946, which fits the citatation.
Yup, I caught that:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=413169DE...@midway.uchicago.edu
Ray Heindl
> The taps on gas stoves evolved through several phases, from a
> simple lever to a knob you turned, to a knob you had to push in
> before it would turn. I remember being initially baffled by
> Italian ones which went from "Off" to "Full" and then past "Full"
> to a "Low" setting: neat when you got used to it, because you
> could turn to "Low" without accidentally turning off.
I've seen gas stoves with that feature, but always assumed it was so
that turning the valve would immediately provide a high enough flow of
gas for the pilot to ignite. Being able to go to "low" without
accidentally turning it off is a further advantage, as long as it
allows a really low "low".
--
Ray Heindl
(remove the Xs to reply to: rahe...@xnccwx.net)
Ben Zimmer
Yes, but so far I've only found one advertisement that uses "(now)
you're cooking with gas", an ad for the People's Gas Light and Coke
Company in the 1944 Chicago Tribune:
You cook without waste when you cook with gas
Even the children say, "You're cooking with gas!" when
they mean something is being done right.
Other early citations also suggest that the saying came from youth
slang, not necessarily from advertising copy:
Winnetka Folks Take Their Gas Woes in Stride
Chicago Tribune, Jan 9, 1942
"Now you're cooking with gas" may be only a current
witticism among the younger set to denote approval, but
to those who live in Winnetka the phrase represented a
state to be envied.
Diary Of a Yank In London
New York Times, Aug 23, 1942
We have fun trying to teach these British girls our
American slang. They seem kind of slow at catching on.
I tried to get Joan, for instance, to understand when
I'd say, "Now you're cooking with gas, honey," but she
hasn't got it yet.
Areff
>
> Diary Of a Yank In London
> New York Times, Aug 23, 1942
> We have fun trying to teach these British girls our
> American slang. They seem kind of slow at catching on.
> I tried to get Joan, for instance, to understand when
> I'd say, "Now you're cooking with gas, honey," but she
> hasn't got it yet.
He should have translated it: "Now you're engaged in cookery with petrol,
me duck".
--
Donna Richoux
That's not *gasoline* in those stoves. That's about like David56 (I
think it was) wondering if we poured kerosene on home-made jam.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Mike Lyle
These ones were primitive pre-self-ignition jobs, and certainly
boasted no pilot. I suppose they were actually rather dangerous.
Mike.
Mike Lyle
These ones were primitive pre-self-ignition jobs, and certainly
Robert Bannister
> it would turn. I remember being initially baffled by Italian ones
> which went from "Off" to "Full" and then past "Full" to a "Low"
> setting: neat when you got used to it, because you could turn to "Low"
> without accidentally turning off.
Most of our gas barbecues have this 'feature'.
--
Rob Bannister
W Australia
Skitt
> Mike Lyle wrote:
>> I remember being initially baffled by Italian ones
>> which went from "Off" to "Full" and then past "Full" to a "Low"
>> setting: neat when you got used to it, because you could turn to
>> "Low" without accidentally turning off.
>
> Most of our gas barbecues have this 'feature'.
The electric range we have works the same way.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Robert Bannister wrote:
>> Mike Lyle wrote:
>
>>> I remember being initially baffled by Italian ones
>>> which went from "Off" to "Full" and then past "Full" to a "Low"
>>> setting: neat when you got used to it, because you could turn to
>>> "Low" without accidentally turning off.
>>
>> Most of our gas barbecues have this 'feature'.
>
> The electric range we have works the same way.
As does our gas one. Off->ignite->high->low.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |To find the end of Middle English,
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |you discover the exact date and
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |time the Great Vowel Shift took
|place (the morning of May 5, 1450,
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |at some time between neenuh fiftehn
(650)857-7572 |and nahyn twenty-fahyv).
| Kevin Wald
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
John Seeliger
news:cgt8ln$ad1$1...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Have you only had natural gas in your area starting a few decades
> > after 1940? Where is that?
>
> "Natural gas" (eg, tapped from under the North Sea) as distinct from gas
> derived from coal (and leaving coke as a by-product).
Well, what did you expect? Dr. Pepper?
>
> [ ... ]
>
> > Then I thought, maybe you mean that using gas for *cooking* is a new
> > development....
>
> No - I meant that the use of natural gas from under the sea was a more
> recent development.
>
I suppose swamp gas would work too, but it might be hard to catch a Will O'
the Wisp.
Maria Conlon
>
> I suppose swamp gas would work too, but it might be hard to catch
a
> Will O' the Wisp.
Swamp gas is too busy disguising itself as flying saucers and other
extraterrestrial alien-type things. Or, at least it used to be.
Maria Conlon
JNugent
> "JNugent" <JNu...@AC30.freeofspamserve.co.uk> wrote:
>> Donna Richoux wrote:
>>> JNugent <JNu...@AC30.freeofspamserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Have you only had natural gas in your area starting a few decades
>>> after 1940? Where is that?
>> "Natural gas" (eg, tapped from under the North Sea) as distinct from
>> gas derived from coal (and leaving coke as a by-product).
> Well, what did you expect? Dr. Pepper?
I don't think that even the mighty Coca Cola Company have managed to
arrogate the word (as opposed to the trademark) "coke".
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Harvey Van Sickle
> John Seeliger wrote:
>> "JNugent" <JNu...@AC30.freeofspamserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Donna Richoux wrote:
>>>> JNugent <JNu...@AC30.freeofspamserve.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Have you only had natural gas in your area starting a few
>>>> decades after 1940? Where is that?
>>> "Natural gas" (eg, tapped from under the North Sea) as distinct
>>> from gas derived from coal (and leaving coke as a by-product).
>> Well, what did you expect? Dr. Pepper?
> I don't think that even the mighty Coca Cola Company have managed
> to arrogate the word (as opposed to the trademark) "coke".
Perhaps not in corporate terms, but certainly here in southern England,
I suspect that the past quarter-century or so, it's become associcated
with the drink rather than the fuel over the past 20 or 30 years.
My gut feeling is that before the widespread introduction of central
heating in council housing -- say early 1970s? -- a word-association
game in the UK would have seen a lot of people say "coke: coal".
I don't think that would happen now.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van)
don groves
JNu...@AC30.freeofspamserve.co.uk wrote...
> John Seeliger wrote:
>
> > "JNugent" <JNu...@AC30.freeofspamserve.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Donna Richoux wrote:
> >>> JNugent <JNu...@AC30.freeofspamserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>> Have you only had natural gas in your area starting a few decades
> >>> after 1940? Where is that?
>
> >> "Natural gas" (eg, tapped from under the North Sea) as distinct from
> >> gas derived from coal (and leaving coke as a by-product).
>
> > Well, what did you expect? Dr. Pepper?
>
> I don't think that even the mighty Coca Cola Company have managed to
> arrogate the word (as opposed to the trademark) "coke".
Why not? The mighty Microsnot has done it with "windows" in the
EU and are still trying in the US.
--
dg
Robert Bannister
How is that possible? Apple had 'windows' (small W) long before Microsoft.
--
Rob Bannister
don groves
wrote...
Yes, and Xerox had it even before Apple. I believe the term was
first used in a computer display context by Alan Kay in the early
'70s.
Apparently prior art or prior use don't carry the weight they
once did. The company marketing Lindows (a Linux/Windows combo)
had to change the name in the EU because it was judged too close
for Bill's comfort.
I can accept "Microsoft Windows" or even ?MS Windows" as a legal
mark but not the generic term by itself. But then, I don't have
billions.
--
dg
Paul Wolff
<no-...@nowhere.not> writes
>> How is that possible? Apple had 'windows' (small W) long before Microsoft.
>
>
>Yes, and Xerox had it even before Apple. I believe the term was
>first used in a computer display context by Alan Kay in the early
>'70s.
>
>Apparently prior art or prior use don't carry the weight they
>once did. The company marketing Lindows (a Linux/Windows combo)
>had to change the name in the EU because it was judged too close
>for Bill's comfort.
>
>I can accept "Microsoft Windows" or even ?MS Windows" as a legal
>mark but not the generic term by itself. But then, I don't have
>billions.
It's a question of what the word means (does it signify a particular
trade origin?) to the buyer of the product marked with the sign
'Windows'; provided that the term is not used generically, or is
otherwise freely needed, in the trade ('trade' meaning buyers and
sellers, not programmers). More or less.
--
Paul
In bocca al Lupo!