One for the New Yorkers
Andrew Gwilliam
I ask as someone who has never been to the Big Apple.*
* The third place today that I've had to admit not having visited. My
traveller's credentials may soon be revoked if I'm not careful.
--
Andrew Gwilliam
To email me, replace "bottomless_pit" with "silverhelm"
Brian Wickham
<bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk> wrote:
>How is "Tribeca" pronounced?
>
>I ask as someone who has never been to the Big Apple.*
>
>
>* The third place today that I've had to admit not having visited. My
>traveller's credentials may soon be revoked if I'm not careful.
TRY-BECK-uh
Areff
> How is "Tribeca" pronounced?
No true New Yorker would pronounce "Tribeca", because a true New Yorker
knows that "Tribeca" is a sham, a joke, a scherzo, a monstrous invention
of the Realtor(R) profession. The only proper way to refer to the area
that is bogusly called "Tribeca" is the Lower West Side.
But when folks like Nitabach and other Visigoths (NTTAWWV) say "Tribeca"
(or, worse, TriBeCa), they pronounce it /traI'bEk@/ (in non-rhotic BrE:
"try-BECKer"). The name is, IKYN, derived from "triangle below Canal
Street".
--
R J Valentine
} How is "Tribeca" pronounced?
['tSaIn@,taUn]
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
Areff
> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 03:29:40 +0100 Andrew Gwilliam <bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk> wrote:
>
> } How is "Tribeca" pronounced?
>
> ['tSaIn@,taUn]
Nah, that's how "Little Italy" is pronounced.
--
Andrew Gwilliam
Thanks. I'd assumed that it was /traI'bi:k@/, but wasn't certain.
I always struggle with US place-names, and make an effort to get them
right (given that I'd be speaking them with a different accent, of course).
Joe Manfre
As opposed to in Baltimore, where the local Little Italy is more like
/,lIl-'Itli/ or /,lIl-'I?li/ (or for some people the 'tt' in 'Little'
might be realized as an alveolar flap) and you can spot an outsider
when they use some pronunciation significantly different from those.
Also, the "Aliceanna" in nearby Aliceanna Street is /&l@'z&n/ (with
the first /&/ lax and the second one tense). Getting this one wrong
should even uncover suburbanites and people from parts of the city
other than East Baltimore.
JM
Areff
> Areff (m...@privacy.net) wrote:
>> R J Valentine wrote:
>>> On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 03:29:40 +0100 Andrew Gwilliam
>>> <bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> } How is "Tribeca" pronounced?
>>>
>>> ['tSaIn@,taUn]
>>
>> Nah, that's how "Little Italy" is pronounced.
>
> As opposed to in Baltimore, where the local Little Italy is more like
> /,lIl-'Itli/ or /,lIl-'I?li/ (or for some people the 'tt' in 'Little'
> might be realized as an alveolar flap) and you can spot an outsider
> when they use some pronunciation significantly different from those.
Non-prestige New York accents traditionally have 'Italy' as [I?li], or at
least that's a widely-used pronunciation.
--
Andrew Gwilliam
I wasn't aware that New Yorkers came from the East End. How curious!
Michael Hamm
> > How is "Tribeca" pronounced?
>
> No true New Yorker would pronounce "Tribeca", because a true New Yorker
> knows that "Tribeca" is a sham, a joke, a scherzo, a monstrous invention
> of the Realtor(R) profession. The only proper way to refer to the area
> that is bogusly called "Tribeca" is the Lower West Side.
I've never heard it called that. But I'm young.
Michael Hamm
AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis
msh...@math.wustl.edu Standard disclaimers:
http://math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ ... legal.html
Areff
> On 30 Aug 2004 04:37:41 GMT, Areff <m...@privacy.net> wrote, in part:
>> > How is "Tribeca" pronounced?
>>
>> No true New Yorker would pronounce "Tribeca", because a true New Yorker
>> knows that "Tribeca" is a sham, a joke, a scherzo, a monstrous invention
>> of the Realtor(R) profession. The only proper way to refer to the area
>> that is bogusly called "Tribeca" is the Lower West Side.
>
> I've never heard it called that. But I'm young.
To be candid, I've never heard it called that either. I can sort of
remember a time when no one (other than a few obscure Realtor(R)s)
referred to Tribeca, but that's because there was no reason to. It's
really analogous to the whole SoHo business, but a little more recent.
I would guess that, to the extent that Lower West Side was used (and it
*must* have been, but I have no ProQuest access at the moment due to
certain bogus firewallian policies) it must have referred to a larger area
than present-day "Tribeca".
As with SoHo, I think the solution is not to refer to "Tribeca" even if
you don't want to go with "Lower West Side". Maybe "downtown" is good
enow.
Don't get me started on "D.U.M.B.O.". That smacks of Realtor(R)ism too.
--
Andrew Gwilliam
> Michael Hamm wrote:
>
>>On 30 Aug 2004 04:37:41 GMT, Areff <m...@privacy.net> wrote, in part:
>>
>>>>How is "Tribeca" pronounced?
>>>
>>>No true New Yorker would pronounce "Tribeca", because a true New Yorker
>>>knows that "Tribeca" is a sham, a joke, a scherzo, a monstrous invention
>>>of the Realtor(R) profession. The only proper way to refer to the area
>>>that is bogusly called "Tribeca" is the Lower West Side.
>>
>>I've never heard it called that. But I'm young.
>
> To be candid, I've never heard it called that either. [...]
I've certainly only seen it in writing. On occasions I've asked stray
Americans who've wandered into my orbit, but none have known how to say
it; however, none have been from that part of the world anyway.
I'm back in the ol' US for ten days or so starting this Friday, and
shall no doubt make further discoveries (hopefully more useful than
"Tribeca"). AmE place-names can be tricky: I think I've got "Spokane"
down, but "Hillsboro" is a difficult one to get quite right.
Ben Zimmer
>
> Michael Hamm wrote:
> > On 30 Aug 2004 04:37:41 GMT, Areff <m...@privacy.net> wrote, in part:
> >> > How is "Tribeca" pronounced?
> >>
> >> No true New Yorker would pronounce "Tribeca", because a true New Yorker
> >> knows that "Tribeca" is a sham, a joke, a scherzo, a monstrous invention
> >> of the Realtor(R) profession. The only proper way to refer to the area
> >> that is bogusly called "Tribeca" is the Lower West Side.
> >
> > I've never heard it called that. But I'm young.
>
> To be candid, I've never heard it called that either. I can sort of
> remember a time when no one (other than a few obscure Realtor(R)s)
> referred to Tribeca, but that's because there was no reason to. It's
> really analogous to the whole SoHo business, but a little more recent.
>
> I would guess that, to the extent that Lower West Side was used (and it
> *must* have been, but I have no ProQuest access at the moment due to
> certain bogus firewallian policies) it must have referred to a larger area
> than present-day "Tribeca".
This article mentions "Lower West Side" as a pre-Tribeca designation:
Art People; The Name's Only SoSo, But
Loft-Rich TriBeCa Is Getting the Action
New York Times, Apr 30, 1976
It's called TriBeCa, though nobody's wild about the name.
That's City Planning Commission short talk for Triangle
Below Canal Street, but those who live there have other
designations for it -- Lo Cal, Washington Market, the
Lower West Side or even SoSo (for South of Soho).
And this article does indeed suggest that the Lower West Side was a
larger area encompassing what became known as Tribeca:
Lofts in Tribeca Win Zone Change
New York Times, Jun 12, 1976
The Board of Estimate gave final approval yesterday to a
zoning amendment legalizing the conversion of loft space
to residential use in the Tribeca area -- a triangle
below Canal Street extending south to Park Place on the
Lower West Side.
don groves
bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk wrote...
You're coming to Oregon then? I live about 30 miles from
Hillsboro. If you like, I can send you several more place names
from my forthcoming book: _How to Mispronounce Oregon Place Names
Like a Native_.
First thing is the state name itself: Oar'-ih-gun (the 'u' is
almost silent). Oar-ee-gahn is a definite no-no, that's what
foreigners (anyone east of Idaho) say.
--
dg
Areff
> You're coming to Oregon then? I live about 30 miles from
> Hillsboro.
How is it pronounced? I'd guess /'hIlz,bVroU/ (a little bit like
'Pillsbury').
> First thing is the state name itself: Oar'-ih-gun (the 'u' is
> almost silent). Oar-ee-gahn is a definite no-no, that's what
> foreigners (anyone east of Idaho) say.
People use 'ee'? In New York, etc., people tend to say /'Or@,gAn/
("OR-uh-gone"). Maybe it's orange class for some.
--
Andrew Gwilliam
> In article <4134e4fe$0$6330$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,
> bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk wrote...
>
>>I'm back in the ol' US for ten days or so starting this Friday, and
>>shall no doubt make further discoveries (hopefully more useful than
>>"Tribeca"). AmE place-names can be tricky: I think I've got "Spokane"
>>down, but "Hillsboro" is a difficult one to get quite right.
>
> You're coming to Oregon then? I live about 30 miles from
> Hillsboro. If you like, I can send you several more place names
> from my forthcoming book: _How to Mispronounce Oregon Place Names
> Like a Native_.
I'm flying into Seattle and then travelling down to Mt Rainier. But
there's a chance I might get down to Portland once again, with a
possible meander along the Columbia River Gorge also on the cards.
The North-West is one of my favourite places to go, there's no doubt
about it. Can't wait!
> First thing is the state name itself: Oar'-ih-gun (the 'u' is
> almost silent). Oar-ee-gahn is a definite no-no, that's what
> foreigners (anyone east of Idaho) say.
I usually say ['A.rIg@n], which I hope passes muster.
If Hillsboro was a giveaway, the shibboleth of Willamette would've been
way too obvious!
Andrew Gwilliam
> don groves wrote:
>
>>You're coming to Oregon then? I live about 30 miles from
>>Hillsboro.
>
> How is it pronounced? I'd guess /'hIlz,bVroU/ (a little bit like
> 'Pillsbury').
It sounded like ['hIlzb@roU] to me, with the schwa being quite subtle.
I would pronounce UK "Hillsborough" as ['hIlzbr@], where the schwa could
be analysed as /V/. I would pronounce Pillsbury as something like
['pIlzbri:]; there seems to be just a hint of a schwa between the [b]
and the [r].
>>First thing is the state name itself: Oar'-ih-gun (the 'u' is
>>almost silent). Oar-ee-gahn is a definite no-no, that's what
>>foreigners (anyone east of Idaho) say.
>
> People use 'ee'? In New York, etc., people tend to say /'Or@,gAn/
> ("OR-uh-gone"). Maybe it's orange class for some.
How does "gone" as /gAn/ differ from "gun"? Or does it?
Areff
>> People use 'ee'? In New York, etc., people tend to say /'Or@,gAn/
>> ("OR-uh-gone"). Maybe it's orange class for some.
>
> How does "gone" as /gAn/ differ from "gun"? Or does it?
"Gun" is /gVn/ -- cut vowel. "Gone" in my dialect has the cot/father
vowel. Many AmE CINCs, however, use the caught vowel in "gone".
--
don groves
wrote...
I've heard or-ee-gahn ('ah' as in father) many times. Those types
tend to not accentuate any syllable. Molly Ivins visited and
wrote a few columns from here recently and had much fun with the
state's various 'names'.
Hillsboro is Hills'-burrow.
--
dg
don groves
bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk wrote...
> don groves wrote:
>
> > In article <4134e4fe$0$6330$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,
> > bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk wrote...
> >
> >>I'm back in the ol' US for ten days or so starting this Friday, and
> >>shall no doubt make further discoveries (hopefully more useful than
> >>"Tribeca"). AmE place-names can be tricky: I think I've got "Spokane"
> >>down, but "Hillsboro" is a difficult one to get quite right.
> >
> > You're coming to Oregon then? I live about 30 miles from
> > Hillsboro. If you like, I can send you several more place names
> > from my forthcoming book: _How to Mispronounce Oregon Place Names
> > Like a Native_.
>
> I'm flying into Seattle and then travelling down to Mt Rainier. But
> there's a chance I might get down to Portland once again, with a
> possible meander along the Columbia River Gorge also on the cards.
>
> The North-West is one of my favourite places to go, there's no doubt
> about it. Can't wait!
>
> > First thing is the state name itself: Oar'-ih-gun (the 'u' is
> > almost silent). Oar-ee-gahn is a definite no-no, that's what
> > foreigners (anyone east of Idaho) say.
>
> I usually say ['A.rIg@n], which I hope passes muster.
Some will think you're just down from BC.
> If Hillsboro was a giveaway, the shibboleth of Willamette would've been
> way too obvious!
What a can of worms that one is!
For the uninitiated, Oregon's major river is the Willamette,
running north through many of the state's largest cities, until
emptying into the Columbia. The name is the bane of visitors
because it is pronounced "wil-LAM-it", rhyming with dammit.
The usual mistake is, obviously, "willa-met".
But there's more... There's a town on the aforementioned river
named Willamina. Not being native-born and thinking to show how
much I'd learned, I first pronounced it "wil-LAM-ina" and was
promptly laughed out of the valley. It's "willa-MY-na", rhyming
with the bird.
There are clearly no little minds in Oregon since consistency is
certainly no virtue here.
--
dg
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>You're coming to Oregon then? I live about 30 miles from
>Hillsboro. If you like, I can send you several more place names
>from my forthcoming book: _How to Mispronounce Oregon Place Names
>Like a Native_.
Is it true, Don, that Oregon welcomes visitors, but does not welcome
additional residents? I've heard there are even signs on the state
border to that effect.
Andrew Gwilliam
They did once have a law against non-white settlers; make of that what
you will.
Jerry Friedman
> Areff wrote:
...
> > Non-prestige New York accents traditionally have 'Italy' as [I?li], or at
> > least that's a widely-used pronunciation.
>
> I wasn't aware that New Yorkers came from the East End. How curious!
I've read that New York accents do indeed derive mostly from London
accents (of pre-20th centuries, I imagine).
--
Jerry Friedman
don groves
chr...@eircom.net wrote...
There used to be a sign at the California border that said
"Welcome to Oregon - Enjoy Your Visit". Some, clearly paranoid
types, thought that was a subtlety meaning "don't stay too long".
There is also the bumper sticker "Don't Californicate Oregon",
which could make some think we're not friendly to visitors from
the south.
We also have fairly strict land development laws, with urban
growth boundaries around major cities to prevent the kind of
urban sprawl those Californians are escaping from. These laws
are under constant attack though and are probably doomed in the
long run.
When will you be here? There are several good local beers we
could chat over.
--
dg
don groves
Sorry, wrong poster. You're Charles, not Andrew.
--
dg
Andrew Gwilliam
> When will you be here? There are several good local beers we
> could chat over.
I'm flying to Seattle this Friday. If I'm in Portland I would probably
be getting there on the following Friday.
don groves
bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk wrote...
> don groves wrote:
>
> > When will you be here? There are several good local beers we
> > could chat over.
>
> I'm flying to Seattle this Friday. If I'm in Portland I would probably
> be getting there on the following Friday.
If you have the time and thirst, my number is 503-631-7806.
--
dg
Andrew Gwilliam
Thanks for the that. It was perhaps inadvisable to post your phone
number here, though.
don groves
> don groves wrote:
>
> > In article <41363a4e$0$6335$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,
> > bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk wrote...
> >
> >>don groves wrote:
> >>
> >>>When will you be here? There are several good local beers we
> >>>could chat over.
> >>
> >>I'm flying to Seattle this Friday. If I'm in Portland I would probably
> >>be getting there on the following Friday.
> >
> > If you have the time and thirst, my number is 503-631-7806.
>
> Thanks for the that. It was perhaps inadvisable to post your phone
> number here, though.
Not much is private here anymore. I won't post my SS number but
even that is probably out there somewhere. Our phone line is set
to reject calls that don't have caller ID enabled so we get very
few unwanted calls.
--
dg
Andrew Gwilliam
> In article <41364893$0$6335$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,
> bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk wrote...
>
>>don groves wrote:
>>
>>>In article <41363a4e$0$6335$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,
>>>bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk wrote...
>>>
>>>>don groves wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>When will you be here? There are several good local beers we
>>>>>could chat over.
>>>>
>>>>I'm flying to Seattle this Friday. If I'm in Portland I would probably
>>>>be getting there on the following Friday.
>>>
>>>If you have the time and thirst, my number is 503-631-7806.
>>
>>Thanks for the that. It was perhaps inadvisable to post your phone
>>number here, though.
>
> Not much is private here anymore. I won't post my SS number but
> even that is probably out there somewhere. Our phone line is set
> to reject calls that don't have caller ID enabled so we get very
> few unwanted calls.
I always make sure that the bit in small print on forms is correctly
ticked/unticked (as appropriate) to ensure that "other companies I may
be interested in" don't get given my details. I had my name put on the
Mail Preference Service's list (or whatever it's called). I have an
ex-directory phone number. And my real email address is given out only
to the chosen few; I use a genuine address when registering on websites,
but that's not the same address I use for real life.
I was also one step ahead of the smart-aleck who posted my unmunged
email address on this group; the bottomless_pit address is genuine (ie
doesn't bounce) but the mail goes straight to /dev/null on the server,
and the silverhelm address is genuine but isn't my real address (so I
can change it at any time if need be).
The result of these seemingly obsessive precautions is that I get
cold-called on the 'phone about once a year, get very little spam coming
at my real email address's inbox, and get virtually no junk mail through
the letterbox.
By way of comparison, the devnull email account that I have used in the
past for posting to newsgroups via Google Groups, and have used for when
it's been necessary to register on websites, gets about 20 spam messages
a day.
Nett result: a few trees are saved because I'm not sent junk mail
through the post, and I can check my inbox without having to wade
through pr0n to get to the interesting stuff.
Well, it keeps me happy...
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>In article <41364893$0$6335$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,
So if your best friend would call you from a new mobile number, that
was not yet judged acceptable by your caller ID system, to tell you
that he desperately needed to be picked up at the airport, you
wouldn't know about the call?
Skitt
> don groves wrote:
>> Our phone line is set to reject calls that don't have caller ID
>> enabled so we get very few unwanted calls.
>
> So if your best friend would call you from a new mobile number, that
> was not yet judged acceptable by your caller ID system, to tell you
> that he desperately needed to be picked up at the airport, you
> wouldn't know about the call?
It would also not receive any calls from pay phones. That's a neat way to
avoid life's little inconveniences.
"Durch Eilboten im Laufschritt" is the proper way to transmit messages.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
don groves
tony_co...@earthlink.net wrote...
The caller hears the following message:
?The party you are calling does not accept blocked
calls. If you are calling from a blocked number, please
hang up, pick up the receiver, press *82 and redial
the phone number. When you do this, your name and
number will appear for this call only.?
The *82 may vary by location but the caller is always told how to
circumvent the refusal. A friend will certainly do so whereas a
junk caller will normally not want to expose their number to a
possible call-back or report to the authorities.
--
dg
Evan Kirshenbaum
> don groves wrote:
>
>> bottoml...@southernskies.co.uk wrote...
>>
>>> I'm flying to Seattle this Friday. If I'm in Portland I would
>>> probably be getting there on the following Friday.
>> If you have the time and thirst, my number is 503-631-7806.
>
> Thanks for the that. It was perhaps inadvisable to post your phone
> number here, though.
I've been somewhat surprised that, though my work phone number has
appeared on thousands of Usenet messages over the past fourteen years,
it doesn't appear to have ever been used for a crank, prank, or
harrassing phone call. (Please don't anybody take this as a challenge
or invitation.)
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |You cannot solve problems with the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |same type of thinking that created
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |them.
| Albert Einstein
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
don groves
o...@nowhere.not wrote...
Those ?s should have been "s, at least they were on the google
page I was cutting and pasting from.
--
dg
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>In article <amqaj09vqifcvm0sg...@4ax.com>,
>chr...@eircom.net wrote...
>> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:23:29 -0700, don groves <no-...@nowhere.not>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >You're coming to Oregon then? I live about 30 miles from
>> >Hillsboro. If you like, I can send you several more place names
>> >from my forthcoming book: _How to Mispronounce Oregon Place Names
>> >Like a Native_.
>>
>> Is it true, Don, that Oregon welcomes visitors, but does not welcome
>> additional residents? I've heard there are even signs on the state
>> border to that effect.
>
>There used to be a sign at the California border that said
>"Welcome to Oregon - Enjoy Your Visit". Some, clearly paranoid
>types, thought that was a subtlety meaning "don't stay too long".
I'd heard one or more of the signs actually said that. Another rumour
bites the dust.
>There is also the bumper sticker "Don't Californicate Oregon",
>which could make some think we're not friendly to visitors from
>the south.
Well, Oregon is a Republican state, is it not? Even after watching
only a few minutes of the performances of speakers at that convention,
I'd be wary of getting too close to any of those hate-mongering,
God-fearing, overly patriotic Republicans, even in relatively peaceful
and sane Oregon.
>We also have fairly strict land development laws, with urban
>growth boundaries around major cities to prevent the kind of
>urban sprawl those Californians are escaping from. These laws
>are under constant attack though and are probably doomed in the
>long run.
>
>When will you be here? There are several good local beers we
>could chat over.
I have a ticket to Washington State good for another five months or
eleven months, depending on who in Aer Lingus I talk to. If there's
time I'd enjoy a train journey down to Oregon, along with that chat.
I've had one or two good local brews in California, so I don't
disbelieve you when you say there are some good ones in Oregon.
Beautiful state, although I've only passed through on the train.
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>In article <amqaj09vqifcvm0sg...@4ax.com>,
>chr...@eircom.net wrote...
>> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 16:23:29 -0700, don groves <no-...@nowhere.not>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >You're coming to Oregon then? I live about 30 miles from
>> >Hillsboro. If you like, I can send you several more place names
>> >from my forthcoming book: _How to Mispronounce Oregon Place Names
>> >Like a Native_.
>>
>> Is it true, Don, that Oregon welcomes visitors, but does not welcome
>> additional residents? I've heard there are even signs on the state
>> border to that effect.
>
>Sorry, wrong poster. You're Charles, not Andrew.
I'm happy enough with that.
don groves
chr...@eircom.net wrote...
Nay, we are true blue, but just barely last time. We are one
state with two political subdivisions, Rural and Urban. In the
large cities, where the universities, great libraries, and
cultural centers are, we are heavily Democratic, and the opposite
in the other parts. I suspect this is generally true in most
states in the US.
> >When will you be here? There are several good local beers we
> >could chat over.
>
> I have a ticket to Washington State good for another five months or
> eleven months, depending on who in Aer Lingus I talk to. If there's
> time I'd enjoy a train journey down to Oregon, along with that chat.
> I've had one or two good local brews in California, so I don't
> disbelieve you when you say there are some good ones in Oregon.
> Beautiful state, although I've only passed through on the train.
If you do come, my phone number is in another post. The wines are
also very nice here, our temperate latitude being roughly that of
Bordeaux.
If you rode the train north/south through western Oregon, then
you saw some of our most gorgeous mountain scenery. Our rugged
sea coast is another place of spectacular vistas.
--
dg
don groves
chr...@eircom.net wrote...
;)
Same here, two visitors are twice as nice.
--
dg
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>In article <ckhdj0dsvrtitsi5d...@4ax.com>,
>chr...@eircom.net wrote...
>> On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:51:01 -0700, don groves <no-...@nowhere.not>
>> wrote:
>> >There is also the bumper sticker "Don't Californicate Oregon",
>> >which could make some think we're not friendly to visitors from
>> >the south.
>>
>> Well, Oregon is a Republican state, is it not? Even after watching
>> only a few minutes of the performances of speakers at that convention,
>> I'd be wary of getting too close to any of those hate-mongering,
>> God-fearing, overly patriotic Republicans, even in relatively peaceful
>> and sane Oregon.
>
>Nay, we are true blue, but just barely last time. We are one
>state with two political subdivisions, Rural and Urban. In the
>large cities, where the universities, great libraries, and
>cultural centers are, we are heavily Democratic, and the opposite
>in the other parts. I suspect this is generally true in most
>states in the US.
For sure. We cultured types are Democrats by default.
>> >When will you be here? There are several good local beers we
>> >could chat over.
>>
>> I have a ticket to Washington State good for another five months or
>> eleven months, depending on who in Aer Lingus I talk to. If there's
>> time I'd enjoy a train journey down to Oregon, along with that chat.
>> I've had one or two good local brews in California, so I don't
>> disbelieve you when you say there are some good ones in Oregon.
>> Beautiful state, although I've only passed through on the train.
>
>If you do come, my phone number is in another post. The wines are
>also very nice here, our temperate latitude being roughly that of
>Bordeaux.
On looking again at my note attached to the airline ticket, I was
reminded I'd be charged an additional 300 euros if I make the flight
because I canceled my initial reservation. The airlines are just no
fun anymore. With that surcharge in addition to the other expenses
involved, I doubt if I'll be going. Damn. I'm making a mighty effort
to pay off my VISA balance, sometimes even hesitating before I add to
it.
>If you rode the train north/south through western Oregon, then
>you saw some of our most gorgeous mountain scenery.
Yes. North from San Francisco, through Oregon, to Seattle. I saw the
prettiest scenery I've seen anywhere. As I recall, the train was a
good one, but it was a long time ago that I went.
>Our rugged
>sea coast is another place of spectacular vistas.
I'm sure, although I'll say the coasts of both Maine and Ireland are
none too shabby in places. Almost spectacular, even.
don groves
chr...@eircom.net wrote...
> On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 13:39:43 -0700, don groves <no-...@nowhere.not>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <ckhdj0dsvrtitsi5d...@4ax.com>,
> >chr...@eircom.net wrote...
> >> On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 12:51:01 -0700, don groves <no-...@nowhere.not>
> it.
>
> >If you rode the train north/south through western Oregon, then
> >you saw some of our most gorgeous mountain scenery.
>
> Yes. North from San Francisco, through Oregon, to Seattle. I saw the
> prettiest scenery I've seen anywhere. As I recall, the train was a
> good one, but it was a long time ago that I went.
>
> >Our rugged
> >sea coast is another place of spectacular vistas.
>
> I'm sure, although I'll say the coasts of both Maine and Ireland are
> none too shabby in places. Almost spectacular, even.
Only seen Ireland once, refueling stop at Shannon en route to
Franfort during my military service. It was just past daybreak as
the land came into view and it was the most spectacular shade of
green I'd ever seen, still is.
--
dg
Tony Cooper
wrote:
You must have had a limited view. They claim 40 shades of green
there.
"I close my eyes and picture the emerald of the sea
From the fishing boats at Dingle to the shores of Donaghadea
I miss the River Shannon, the folks at Skibbereen.
The moorlands and the meadows and the forty shades of green."
don groves
tony_co...@earthlink.net wrote...
Though an airplane window at about 10,000 ft. The one was enough
to stick in my memory the past 48 years.
--
dg
Charles Riggs
wrote:
What I find most remarkable are the clouds in the west of Ireland. I
know, clouds don't sound too exciting, but I was struck, as I was told
I probably would be, by the beauty of them on my first train trip from
Dublin to the West Coast. For some of the many artists who come to
Westport and environs, clouds are their favourite subject. Something
to do with the light here? I don't know: the light in the south of
France is said to be unique if painting is what you want to do, but
there is obviously something unusual going on in the atmosphere in
these parts too.