"if real fear and harsh punishment were removed from child training, children would develop into better happier and kinder adults"
(at the end of the enclosed quotation) is in the subjunctive mood or in the indicative?
------------- Eight-year-old Jimmy comes to school and on his face is the clear mark of a hand.
"Where did you get that mark, Jimmy?" asks his teacher. "My mom hit me," answers Jimmy.
Sixty years ago, the teacher might well have replied, "I'll bet you deserved it." Today, by law, in every state of America, the teacher must report such an incident to local child-abuse authorities. At the heart of the revolution in child raising is the fact that the more severe forms of punishment, such as hard slaps across the face, are now considered unacceptable. Parents and psychologists got the idea that if real fear and harsh punishment were removed from child training, children would develop into better happier and kinder adults. -------------
> "if real fear and harsh punishment were removed from child > training, children would develop into better happier and kinder > adults"
> (at the end of the enclosed quotation) is in the subjunctive mood > or in the indicative?
> ------------- > Eight-year-old Jimmy comes to school and on his face is the clear > mark of a hand.
> "Where did you get that mark, Jimmy?" asks his teacher. > "My mom hit me," answers Jimmy.
> Sixty years ago, the teacher might well have replied, "I'll bet > you deserved it." Today, by law, in every state of America, the > teacher must report such an incident to local child-abuse > authorities. At the heart of the revolution in child raising is > the fact that the more severe forms of punishment, such as hard > slaps across the face, are now considered unacceptable. Parents > and psychologists got the idea that if real fear and harsh > punishment were removed from child training, children would > develop into better happier and kinder adults.
Subjunctive. It's wishful thinking, as indicated by "Parents and psychologists got the idea that".
For it to be indicative, it would have to be something like "if we remove real fear and harsh punishment from child training, children will develop into better happier and kinder adults".
> "if real fear and harsh punishment were removed from child > training, children would develop into better happier and kinder > adults"
> (at the end of the enclosed quotation) is in the subjunctive mood or in > the indicative?
1. The orthodox (grammarian's) answer to this question is that the subordinate clause's verb is in the subjunctive mood and the main verb is in the indicative mood (conditional tense.)
2. The modern approach is that "moods" are bogus and both verbs in this sentence are of conditional style (and past tense.)
> . . . Today, by law, in every state of America, the teacher > must report such an incident to local child-abuse authorities. At the > heart of the revolution in child raising is the fact that the more > severe forms of punishment, such as hard slaps across the face, are > now considered unacceptable. Parents and psychologists got the idea > that if real fear and harsh punishment were removed from child > training, children would develop into better happier and kinder > adults.
If true, this para. would imply that parents' and psychologists' revised conclusions were translated into US criminal law (50 times over, in each of the 50 separate state legislatures) without careful consideration by the legislators. This is not impossible but seems unlikely.
-- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
> "if real fear and harsh punishment were removed from child > training, children would develop into better happier and kinder > adults"
> (at the end of the enclosed quotation) is in the subjunctive mood or in > the indicative?
> ------------- > Eight-year-old Jimmy comes to school and on his face is the clear mark > of a hand.
> "Where did you get that mark, Jimmy?" asks his teacher. > "My mom hit me," answers Jimmy.
> Sixty years ago, the teacher might well have replied, "I'll bet you > deserved it." Today, by law, in every state of America, the teacher > must report such an incident to local child-abuse authorities. At the > heart of the revolution in child raising is the fact that the more > severe forms of punishment, such as hard slaps across the face, are > now considered unacceptable. Parents and psychologists got the idea > that if real fear and harsh punishment were removed from child > training, children would develop into better happier and kinder > adults. > -------------
> Thanks. > Marius Hancu
Good one! From the context, I'd say 'the subjunctive', but grammatically, it could be either.
> On Nov 11, 7:48 pm, Marius Hancu <NOS...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> > Hello:
> > Would you say that the part:
> > "if real fear and harsh punishment were removed from child > > training, children would develop into better happier and kinder > > adults"
> > (at the end of the enclosed quotation) is in the subjunctive mood or in > > the indicative?
> > ------------- > > Eight-year-old Jimmy comes to school and on his face is the clear mark > > of a hand.
> > "Where did you get that mark, Jimmy?" asks his teacher. > > "My mom hit me," answers Jimmy.
> > Sixty years ago, the teacher might well have replied, "I'll bet you > > deserved it." Today, by law, in every state of America, the teacher > > must report such an incident to local child-abuse authorities. At the > > heart of the revolution in child raising is the fact that the more > > severe forms of punishment, such as hard slaps across the face, are > > now considered unacceptable. Parents and psychologists got the idea > > that if real fear and harsh punishment were removed from child > > training, children would develop into better happier and kinder > > adults. > > -------------
> > Thanks. > > Marius Hancu
> Good one! From the context, I'd say 'the subjunctive', but > grammatically, it could be either.- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
Actually, if it were the indicative, it would probably be better as 'Parents and psychologists got the idea that if real fear and harsh punishment *are* removed from child training, children would develop into better, happier and kinder adults.' But the version you post is still sound enough as a sentence in the indicative.
On Nov 11, 9:24 am, cybercypher <cybercyphe...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Parents > > and psychologists got the idea that if real fear and harsh > > punishment were removed from child training, children would > > develop into better happier and kinder adults.
> Subjunctive. It's wishful thinking, as indicated by "Parents and > psychologists got the idea that".
> For it to be indicative, it would have to be something like "if we > remove real fear and harsh punishment from child training, children > will develop into better happier and kinder adults".
