James: BrE: And shall you?

[Marius Hancu]

Hello:

I think James' using BrE (or "high" end-of-the-century AmE) in this
novel, at least with respect to "shall/will/would/should."

Now, why would one use, in BrE, "shall" and not "will," in:

"And SHALL you?"

in the 2nd person singular? I see a future in terms of meaning.

Also, is this something still being used?

---
[Mamie hopes to get friends with Jeanne in order to tell her what's
the matter with her [Jeanne], as Jeanne doesn't seem to know herself
what's wrong about herself.]

"If I see a little more of her, as I hope I shall, I think she'll like
me enough—for she seemed to like me to-day—to want me to tell her."

"And SHALL you?"

"Perfectly. I shall tell her the matter with her is that she wants
only too much to do right. To do right for her, naturally," said
Mamie, "is to please."

"Her mother, do you mean?"

"Her mother first."

Henry James, The Ambassadors, p. 277
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/432/432-h/432-h.htm
-----
--
Thanks.
Marius Hancu

[James Hogg]

Marius Hancu wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I think James' using BrE (or "high" end-of-the-century AmE) in this
> novel, at least with respect to "shall/will/would/should."
>
> Now, why would one use, in BrE, "shall" and not "will," in:
>
> "And SHALL you?"
>
> in the 2nd person singular? I see a future in terms of meaning.
>
> Also, is this something still being used?

I remember it being used by one English lady in this very newsgroup
earlier this year, and another English lady said how nice it was to see
the usage.

The comment seemed to indicate that it's not used very often nowadays.

--
James

[Cheryl]

I learned how and when to use 'shall' in elementary school, and haven't
used it since.

--
Cheryl

[John Dean]

Marius Hancu wrote:
> Hello:
>
> I think James' using BrE (or "high" end-of-the-century AmE) in this
> novel, at least with respect to "shall/will/would/should."
>
> Now, why would one use, in BrE, "shall" and not "will," in:
>
> "And SHALL you?"
>
> in the 2nd person singular? I see a future in terms of meaning.

Since Mamie said "I hope I shall" it was polite to echo that in "Shall
you?". If she'd said "I hope I will" no doubt the question would have been
"Will you?"

>
> Also, is this something still being used?

Not really. Traditionally, 'shall' was the simple future in the first
person, otherwise it was 'will'. Now it's pretty much 'will' for all.

>
> ---
> [Mamie hopes to get friends with Jeanne in order to tell her what's
> the matter with her [Jeanne], as Jeanne doesn't seem to know herself
> what's wrong about herself.]
>
> "If I see a little more of her, as I hope I shall, I think she'll like
> me enough�for she seemed to like me to-day�to want me to tell her."
>
> "And SHALL you?"
>
> "Perfectly. I shall tell her the matter with her is that she wants
> only too much to do right. To do right for her, naturally," said
> Mamie, "is to please."
>

--
John Dean
Oxford

[Marius Hancu]

On Nov 24, 11:08 am, "John Dean" <john-d...@fraglineone.net> wrote:

> > I think James' using BrE (or "high" end-of-the-century AmE) in this
> > novel, at least with respect to "shall/will/would/should."
>
> > Now, why would one use, in BrE, "shall" and not "will," in:
>
> > "And SHALL you?"
>
> > in the 2nd person singular? I see a future in terms of meaning.
>
> Since Mamie said "I hope I shall" it was polite to echo that in "Shall
> you?". If she'd said "I hope I will" no doubt the question would have been
> "Will you?"

This is what I need:-)

> > Also, is this something still being used?
>
> Not really. Traditionally, 'shall' was the simple future in the first
> person, otherwise it was 'will'. Now it's pretty much 'will' for all.
>
>
>
> > ---
> > [Mamie hopes to get friends with Jeanne in order to tell her what's
> > the matter with her [Jeanne], as Jeanne doesn't seem to know herself
> > what's wrong about herself.]
>
> > "If I see a little more of her, as I hope I shall, I think she'll like
> > me enough—for she seemed to like me to-day—to want me to tell her."
>
> > "And SHALL you?"
>
> > "Perfectly. I shall tell her the matter with her is that she wants
> > only too much to do right. To do right for her, naturally," said
> > Mamie, "is to please."

Thank you.
Marius Hancu

[Chuck Riggs]

I got a good laugh from that, Cheryl, because I'm largely with you on
the use of "shall". The only time I use it is when I really want to
emphasize something. "I 'shall' go to town if I want to", sort of
thing.
--

Regards,

Chuck Riggs,
An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE

[Skitt]

Chuck Riggs wrote:
> Cheryl wrote:

>> I learned how and when to use 'shall' in elementary school, and
>> haven't used it since.
>
> I got a good laugh from that, Cheryl, because I'm largely with you on
> the use of "shall". The only time I use it is when I really want to
> emphasize something. "I 'shall' go to town if I want to", sort of
> thing.

I had to use it when writing product function requirements (in the aerospace
industry).
--
Skitt (AmE)

[Chuck Riggs]

On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 10:00:05 -0800, "Skitt" <ski...@comcast.net>
wrote:

Me too, in my Navy work, when writing contractual statements of work.
I had forgotten how important the shalls, as opposed to the wills,
were in that application, until you jolted my memory.