> You're in the clear with "dwarf", as she and everybody she works with
> go on about her nonpareilness all the time.
It might be considered offensive to people who are genuinely diagnosed with dwarfism, though. Cf. "spastic", which is no longer used for people with cerebral palsy because it started being used as a blanket insult.
(Incidentally, going back to The News Quiz, I'd never previously heard of Francesca Martinez, the comedian with cerebral palsy who appeared this week. I thought she was very funny - what did others think who heard the programme?)
>> I suppose if one is trying to get across that one doesn't speak French
>> it might be better to say so in broken rather than fluent French.
> Ah! So we really want the French for "me no speak English". How about
> "moi non parler francais"?
Nearly so: "Moi pas parler français" but that was a language used
in Africa, a sort of pidgin, by locals who had only notions of
French and it was scorned upon by colonialists and called
"petit nègre". No wonder it is no popular these days.
<m...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 09:38:30 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
><gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>On Oct 3, 9:14 am, Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> >> If it is, then no. It's normal British usage for that sort of
>>> >> institution. I'd expect a "School of Hotel Management" to cover
>>> >> a lot more on non-restaurant business than a "Catering College"
>>> >> for a start.
>>> > "Catering" is the lowest form of food service -- it's what would-be
>>> > restaurateurs do who can't break into the restaurant biz.
>>> Somebody has weird prejudices.
>>> People in catering often need specialized knowledge that a restaurant
>>> chef doesn't have. My wife did degree-level dietetics and was a
>>> registered dietitian for decades. Catering managers are often
>>> responsible for everything their clients eat (in nursing homes,
>>> prisons, hospitals, residential schools), so they have to understand
>>> nutrition. Whereas a restaurant chef is perfectly free to provide
>>> meals that would have you dying of malnutrition within weeks if that
>>> was all you ate; what they're doing is basically showbiz.
>>Do the institutions you list not have their own food service
>>departments?
>>"Catering" is bringing food in from outside, for parties and such.
>That is one use of the word.
I've just remembered that in some universities in the UK the food
service department, that is, the department that feeds the staff and
students, is named the "catering" department.
The name of the person making the booking with contact details
Department
[charging details]
Date of event
Time of delivery
Building and room number for the delivery
On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 21:29:20 +0100, Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>On Fri, 5 Oct 2012 21:12:01 +0100, Vinny Burgoo <hlu...@yahoo.co.uk>
>wrote:
>[...]
>>Incidentally, can Americans download podcasts of Radio 4's _The News >>Quiz_? The level of anti-Americanism was truly shaming this week. It has >>always been there but it has got a lot worse since Sandi Toksvig took >>over.
>I'd have expected that more from Jeremy Hardy. Missed it, anyway, as
>was having a siesta.
>>(As Toksvig thinks it's OK to portray all Americans as stupid, is it OK >>to say that she's a humourless cackling bigoted dwarf? Nah. Thought not. >>Sorry.)
>You're in the clear with "dwarf", as she and everybody she works with
>go on about her nonpareilness all the time. The others I'm sure you're
>allowed to say about anybody.
When I switched on the telly in my bedroom this morning the first person
I saw was Sandi Toksvig. She was in a current affairs programme
discussing what was in the newspapers. She was sitting on a sofa. Her
head was the same height as the man's next to her. She was boosted by a
not insignificant cushion.
> On Oct 6, 6:14 pm, Cheryl <cperk...@mun.ca> wrote:
>> On 06/10/2012 4:03 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>> On Oct 6, 9:21 am, Cheryl <cperk...@mun.ca> wrote:
>>>> On 06/10/2012 9:33 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>> On Oct 6, 7:35 am, Cheryl <cperk...@mun.ca> wrote:
>>>>>> On 05/10/2012 6:11 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>>>> On Oct 5, 11:30 am, Cheryl <cperk...@mun.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2012-10-05 12:38 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 5, 10:51 am, Cheryl <cperk...@mun.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2012-10-05 12:39 PM, Charles Bishop wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>>>> <7551a319-f0e8-49ea-9af8-b0af65bcb...@e18g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,
>>>>>>>>>>> "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 4, 11:09=A0pm, ctbis...@earthlink.net (Charles Bishop) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <75efe56b-9e97-41d3-a9d4-7ae1be3aa...@w3g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, "Pete=
>>>>>>>>>>>> r
>>>>>>>>>>>>> T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 3, 10:28=3DA0pm, ctbis...@earthlink.net (Charles Bishop) wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I fully support public schools being able to choose whom they educate =
>>>>>>>>>>>> as =3D
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So you would welcome a vast cadre of illiterates untrained for any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occupation?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What made you think that I would welcome them, from what I wrote?
>>>>>>>>>>>> That you would allow public schools (which are the schools of last
>>>>>>>>>>>> resort) to reject potential students -- who thus could not receive an
>>>>>>>>>>>> education.
>>>>>>>>>>> I am still wondering why you think I would *welcome* this. I added the
>>>>>>>>>>> emphasis because this is what I'm having trouble with. How did you come to
>>>>>>>>>>> infer that I would welcome the results?
>>>>>>>>>> I think he assumes that there would be a 'vast cadre' of students tossed
>>>>>>>>>> out by public schools, and therefore anyone who thinks that a public
>>>>>>>>>> school should have some control over which students they can accept
>>>>>>>>>> agrees that the rejected students will form a very large group and cause
>>>>>>>>>> severe social problems, and also thinks this is a good idea instead of
>>>>>>>>>> perhaps an unavoidable side-effect or perhaps something that might not
>>>>>>>>>> happen at all.
>>>>>>>>> Since the public schools _already_ take anyone who is rejected from a
>>>>>>>>> private school or a charter school, it's _starting_ with a lower
>>>>>>>>> average.
>>>>>>>> Or a higher academic average but also a higher tendency to disrupt
>>>>>>>> things. Or parents who lost their jobs. I admit it's many years since I
>>>>>>>> looked at the reasons for public/private differences in outcomes, and
>>>>>>>> the researchers may, since then, have identified them all, but unless
>>>>>>>> that is the case, I think you're exaggerating somewhat.
>>>>>>>>> Anyone rejected by the public school under Charles's proposal
>>>>>>>>> will have nowhere to go.
>>>>>>>> I expect they'll go to the same sorts of places they do now - sometimes,
>>>>>>>> depending on how things are organized locally, to special schools or
>>>>>>>> classes organized by the school board itself.
>>>>>>> Those _are_ public schools! But Charles wants them to be able to
>>>>>>> _reject_ applicants just as private and charter schools do.
>>>>>> Public schools are perfectly capable of creating places - sometimes
>>>>>> entire schools - for those of their clients they don't want to keep in
>>>>>> the mainstream for one reason or another.
>>>>>>>> Sometimes to various
>>>>>>>> schools for children with various 'special needs'. Sometimes,
>>>>>>>> particularly if they are well into their teens and no intervention has
>>>>>>>> succeeded yet, maybe out in the streets with the hope that they do learn
>>>>>>>> to accept help before they kill themselves or others.
>>>>>>> Special needs children have been mainstreamed in NYC public schools
>>>>>>> for decades, and if there's anything realistic at all about the
>>>>>>> portrayal of the high school experience on *Glee*, in Lima, Ohio, as
>>>>>>> well (standing in for suburban schools everywhere).
>>>>>> I put it in quotes because I wasn't referring to students who needed and
>>>>>> wanted assistance, but to those who are classified as 'special' in order
>>>>>> to get them out of the regular classroom - the thugs, for example, or
>>>>>> the severely mentally ill.
>>>>>> Whether or not those who pose a less extreme challenge to the classroom
>>>>>> should be in or out is a matter of their condition and the
>>>>>> administration's philosophy. I've seen the practice swing from never
>>>>>> mainstreaming anyone to mainstreaming them all, including some who need
>>>>>> massive ammounts of support, and not providing that support.
>>>>> The suggestion was for the children they don't want to _not_ be
>>>>> accommodated, not to set up ever more expensive holding pens for them.
>>>> The end result is the same.
>>>>>> I think I've seen part of one episode of Glee, but I tend not to get my
>>>>>> opinions about high schools (or much else) from fictional TV shows.
>>>>> If you have a more direct way of getting information about high
>>>>> schools, do they mainstream Down Syndrome children? are they fully
>>>>> wheelchair-accessible?
>>>> If it matters to you, look the information up on your local school
>>>> board's website. Or find an employee or student of it to talk with. I
>>>> can't imagine you have a serious interest in my local schools, but if
>>>> you do, the information is out there, I expect.
>>>> But I typed too quickly. Of course, you're familiar with conditions in
>>>> my local schools! How else would you know if my answers to your little
>>>> test were correct?
>>> I'm not talking about "local schools." I'm talking about universal
>>> policies -- presumably affecting all of Canada in your case. Are or
>>> are not "special needs" students "mainstreamed"? Do or do not public
>>> schools have the option of rejecting students whom it's too difficult
>>> or too expensive to accommodate?
>> There aren't any universal education policies in Canada, and if they
>> were, it would hardly be a 'universal' policy from the point of view of
>> the rest of the world. Education is a provincial responsibility here.
> "Universal" refers to the universe of discourse. I extrapolate from
> the US, which has a federal Department of Education, which sets
> certain standards. Don't you have Ministries of this and that?
Since the topic has expanded to two different countries, I think it reasonable to assume that the universe of discourse is bigger than either.
And no, there is no federal ministry or department of education in Canada, although we have a wide range of mninistries concerning themselves with other areas.
I think the feds may concern themselves somewhat with the education of children of native people, children of military personnel, and children whose native language is a minority language, assuming it's either French or English, and assuming 'numbers warrant'. They subsidize post-secondary education. They may provide educational materials you can get on request on topics like 'How your House of Commons works" or "Your National Parks" (I haven't actually seen such documents, but I've seen similar ones and it's likely they exist). But they do not run educational matters from pre-school to the end of high school. The provinces do. If you want to find out about Canadian education policies, you look at the provincial government and school board web sites, not to the feds.
And it's pretty much guaranteed that although there are many similarities among the provinces' educational systems, there are also some differences, some of which may affect whatever we were discussing - permanently expelling disruptive children, wasn't it? Actually, size of system has a lot to do with that, too, with bigger systems being more likely to be able to afford places to warehouse such children, thereby getting them mostly out of the system, or by using such methods as home tutors - an option normally for sick children, but it could be used for others who can't function in a normal classroom.
Meanwhile, you will get - in large enough centres - 'alternative' education centres which might be run by other groups entirely, such as charities interested in helping adolescents, especially street kids.
> On Sat, 06 Oct 2012 14:53:20 -0800, ctbis...@earthlink.net (Charles
> Bishop) wrote:
>> In article <506fef73$0$2362$426a3...@news.free.fr>, Lanarcam
>> <lanarc...@yahoo.fr> wrote:
>>> Le 06/10/2012 05:25, Charles Bishop a crit :
>>>> In article <4SCbs.221226$PU2.48...@fx23.am4>, "Guy Barry"
>>>> <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Clearly. It's "je ne parle pas Francais" (with a cedilla under the c, of
>>>>> course).
>>>>> I always try to learn the phrase for "I don't speak <language>" even if I
>>>>> don't learn anything else. Although it can help if you get it wrong. I was
>>>>> once bought drinks in a bar by a Dutchman for saying "ik rede geen
>>>>> Nederlands". (What should it have been?)
>>>> I was told by someone else, presumably who spoke the language, that pas
>>>> went at the end of the sentence. I assume that French is like other
>>>> languages and the word order, while it contributes to the structure, is
>>>> flexible.
>>> To settle things, it is "je ne parle pas fran ais" which is false;)
>>> "Pas" can't get at the end of the sentence.
>>> In the spoken language, we say just "je parle pas fran ais"
>>> or "je n'parle pas fran ais".
>> Thanks. Good thing I'm not a spy.
> I suppose if one is trying to get across that one doesn't speak French
> it might be better to say so in broken rather than fluent French.
Definitely. Otherwise, the other person gets the wrong idea, says several paragraphs at a normal speaking speed, and totally confuses you.
-- Cheryl
> On Oct 4, 5:36 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>> On 5/10/12 6:28 AM, DKleinecke wrote:
>>> On Oct 3, 8:36 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
>>>> On 4/10/12 7:05 AM, DKleinecke wrote:
>>>>> I wouldn't recognize it as a commonplace. I would expect "feral".
>>>>> That's what we call house cats (a few dogs) who have reverted back to
>>>>> not depending on humans. Locally they cannot sustain themselves
>>>>> because the competition from the genuine wild animals is too
>>>>> formidable - but they can manage a few generations before they die
>>>>> out.
>>>> You should come to Australia. Cats, dogs, camels and quite a number of
>>>> other creatures as well as garden plants find this country ideal for
>>>> living without human assistance. There are of course no predators apart
>>>> from dingos and snakes - cats and camels can avoid those easily enough
>>>> and the dogs can just mate with the dingoes, although not with the snakes.
>>>> --
>>>> Robert Bannister
>>> The local equivalent of a dingo is a coyote and they are death on
>>> house cats. Cats that are surviving ferally seem to know how to avoid
>>> them but your standard house cat - if it meets a coyote - is
>>> immediately killed (eaten I don't know about).
>> Your standard house cat is also killed fairly quickly by feral cats that
>> have grown quite a bit larger than their domestic cousins. Cast have
>> been wild for some time now. Feral dogs don't usually last all that long
>> unless they are in a largish pack or manage to mix in with dingoes. The
>> camels and donkey, though, are doing very well. We export camels to Arabia.
>> --
>> Robert Bannister
> I think your feral cats might be of more than casual interest.
> Australia has no native cats. But here we have bobcats who are maybe
> twice as big as a house cat (they seem able to inter-breed) and may be
> contributing to the loss of feral cats. If your feral cat population
> is evolving in size that might be interesting to a biologist. Sort of
> the feline version of a dingo (dinga?)
Like the east coast coyotes which have apparently been breeding with wolves on their way across the continent, getting bigger and more aggressive.
Although I always heard that wolves, contrary to their reputation in fairy tales, aren't really that aggressive in the wild. It was national news when a pack of them attacked and killed a young man in some northern camp a year or two ago.
> On Oct 4, 5:36 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> > On 5/10/12 6:28 AM, DKleinecke wrote:
> > > On Oct 3, 8:36 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> > >> On 4/10/12 7:05 AM, DKleinecke wrote:
> > >>> I wouldn't recognize it as a commonplace. I would expect "feral".
> > >>> That's what we call house cats (a few dogs) who have reverted back to
> > >>> not depending on humans. Locally they cannot sustain themselves
> > >>> because the competition from the genuine wild animals is too
> > >>> formidable - but they can manage a few generations before they die
> > >>> out.
> > >> You should come to Australia. Cats, dogs, camels and quite a number of
> > >> other creatures as well as garden plants find this country ideal for
> > >> living without human assistance. There are of course no predators apart
> > >> from dingos and snakes - cats and camels can avoid those easily enough
> > >> and the dogs can just mate with the dingoes, although not with the snakes.
> > >> --
> > >> Robert Bannister
> > > The local equivalent of a dingo is a coyote and they are death on
> > > house cats. Cats that are surviving ferally seem to know how to avoid
> > > them but your standard house cat - if it meets a coyote - is
> > > immediately killed (eaten I don't know about).
> > Your standard house cat is also killed fairly quickly by feral cats that
> > have grown quite a bit larger than their domestic cousins. Cast have
> > been wild for some time now. Feral dogs don't usually last all that long
> > unless they are in a largish pack or manage to mix in with dingoes. The
> > camels and donkey, though, are doing very well. We export camels to Arabia.
> > --
> > Robert Bannister
> I think your feral cats might be of more than casual interest.
> Australia has no native cats. But here we have bobcats who are maybe
> twice as big as a house cat (they seem able to inter-breed) and may be
> contributing to the loss of feral cats. If your feral cat population
> is evolving in size that might be interesting to a biologist. Sort of
> the feline version of a dingo (dinga?)
from what I undrstand, dingoes are midway between dog and wolf. the
scenario that I gather is that they were partially domesticated
wolves, didn't complete the evolution to dogs, accompanied man to
Australia and then went completely wild.
> On Oct 4, 5:36 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> > On 5/10/12 6:28 AM, DKleinecke wrote:
> > > On Oct 3, 8:36 pm, Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> > >> On 4/10/12 7:05 AM, DKleinecke wrote:
> > >>> I wouldn't recognize it as a commonplace. I would expect "feral".
> > >>> That's what we call house cats (a few dogs) who have reverted back to
> > >>> not depending on humans. Locally they cannot sustain themselves
> > >>> because the competition from the genuine wild animals is too
> > >>> formidable - but they can manage a few generations before they die
> > >>> out.
> > >> You should come to Australia. Cats, dogs, camels and quite a number of
> > >> other creatures as well as garden plants find this country ideal for
> > >> living without human assistance. There are of course no predators apart
> > >> from dingos and snakes - cats and camels can avoid those easily enough
> > >> and the dogs can just mate with the dingoes, although not with the snakes.
> > >> --
> > >> Robert Bannister
> > > The local equivalent of a dingo is a coyote and they are death on
> > > house cats. Cats that are surviving ferally seem to know how to avoid
> > > them but your standard house cat - if it meets a coyote - is
> > > immediately killed (eaten I don't know about).
> > Your standard house cat is also killed fairly quickly by feral cats that
> > have grown quite a bit larger than their domestic cousins. Cast have
> > been wild for some time now. Feral dogs don't usually last all that long
> > unless they are in a largish pack or manage to mix in with dingoes. The
> > camels and donkey, though, are doing very well. We export camels to Arabia.
> > --
> > Robert Bannister
> I think your feral cats might be of more than casual interest.
> Australia has no native cats. But here we have bobcats who are maybe
> twice as big as a house cat (they seem able to inter-breed) and may be
> contributing to the loss of feral cats. If your feral cat population
> is evolving in size that might be interesting to a biologist. Sort of
> the feline version of a dingo (dinga?)
Turkey has a large population of shall I say semi-feral cats, where
the cat is not kept inside the house but is a regular visitor of the
garden or lives outside a shop (sometimes given shelter). my
grandmother and her sisters had lots of cats that were kept in the
house and in addition to that the daily food scrappings were thrown
into the garden to be gathered by the regular feline visitors from the
street. our house was in a old and rural section of Istanbul (it has
since been developed and renovated) with a large garden complete with
its own well. Turkey has *lots* of cats in general. there was even a
scene caught on TV where a stray tabby calmly licked himself in full
view on the red carpet of the old imperial palace in istanbul during a
reception given by the government to a visiting foreign dignitary.
> On Oct 4, 11:33 pm, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > On Oct 4, 6:47 pm, DKleinecke <dkleine...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Oct 4, 4:41 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > > > On Oct 4, 2:12 am, Yusuf B Gursey <ygur...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Oct 3, 7:34 pm, DKleinecke <dkleine...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > I've seen pictures of that hand writing square Hebrew script which
> > > > > > would, I think, be an anachronism in Belshazzar's day - but there is a
> > > > > > perfectly good older Hebrew script that would be appropriate.
> > > > > "Paleo-Hebrew Script"-
> > > > The time of introduction of Square Hebrew is not clear; nor is it
> > > > clear whether it is based on an Aramaic form learned in the east
> > > > during the Exile, or on a local Aramaic script.
> > > Since the entire episode is clearly folklore the script actually used
> > > is a silly question. The best answer would seem to be whatever script
> > > the original narrator imagined was being used. So all we have to do is
> > > determine when the story was invented. Haven't we all got something
> > > better to do?
> > That was settled more than a century ago. The Aramaic of Esther is
> > contemporary with the events described (so the letters transcribed
> > there are probably genuine archival documents from the Achaemenid
> I read that Esther is unhistorical.
Sorry, that should be "Ezra."
Nonetheless, if an Aramaic document had happened to be incorporated
into the text of Esther, do writers of historical novels not include
genuine contemporary documents for artistic verisimilitude?
> > court), and the Aramaic of Daniel is a few centuries later. Thus the
> > writer probably imagined a script a bit more like the DSS than like
> > the Elephantine.-
> > > > > > > I still don't see why "he saw the hand writing on the
> > > > > > > wall" is not a reasonable allusion to the Biblical story
> > > > > > > by way of one of its key elements. Of course its
> > > > > > > proverbial use nowadays usually does not include the word
> > > > > > > "hand". But someone who knew the story might well include
> > > > > > > it. And that would be less odd, it seems to me, than
> > > > > > > "handwriting", which has occasioned all this discussion.
> > > > > > I first heard it as 'handwriting', and that's still the
> > > > > > version that comes to mind first, with 'writing' a distant
> > > > > > second (and 'hand writing' a non-starter).
> > > > > The complete paralllel Bible (OUP) includes two versions produced by
> > > > > ecumenical councils (Protestant Anglican, Roman Catholic, Orthodox,
> > > > > and Jewish) in the US and UK respectively, and two produced primarily
> > > > > by Catholic scholars in the US and UK respectively:
> > > > > “So from his presence the hand was sent and this writing was
> > > > > inscribed. And this is the writing that was inscribed [...].” (NRSV)
> > > > > “That is why he sent the hand and why it wrote this inscription. The
> > > > > words inscribed were [...].” (REV)
> > > > > “By him were the wrist and the hand sent, and the writing set down.
> > > > > This is the writing that was inscribed [...].” (NAB)
> > > > > “That is why he has sent the hand which has written these words. The
> > > > > writing reads [...].” (NJB)
> > > > You don't seem to be looking at the same verse as everyone else ("the
> > > > fingers of a man's hand").-- the word for "finger" (es.b`a) is not in
> > > > question.
> > > The above, from 5.24-25, immediately precedes “Mene, mene, tekel
> > > [...].”
> > > This is the beginning of 5.5:
> > > “Immediately the fingers of a human hand appeared and began writing on
> > > the plaster of the wall of the royal palace, next to the
> > > lampstand” (NRSV)
> > > “Suddenly there appeared the fingers of a human hand writing on the
> > > plaster of the palace wall opposite the lamp” (REV)
> > > “Suddenly opposite the lampstand, the fingers of a human hand
> > > appeared, writing on the plaster wall in the king’s palace” (NAB)
> > > “Suddenly, the fingers of a human hand appeared and began to write on
> > > the plaster of the palace wall, directly behind the lamp-stand” (NJB)
> > > Christopher Ingham
> > According to Kohlenberger the word-for-word is
> > "in-her the-moment they-appeared fingers of hand-of human and-ones-
> > writing at-near the-lampstand on the-plaster of wall-of the-palace of
> > the-royalty"
> > Why mess with translations when the original is so easy to find?
> That looks like a translation.... The NRSV and NAB, btw, are more
> literal translations (of the book as we have it), while the REB and
> NJB are freer.
> You can’t be certain that_the_original text survives. There’s no
> agreement as to whether the present-day form of the book was composed
> as a unity or in a complex redactional process, or whether the Aramaic
> parts of the book were originally in Aramaic or Hebrew. If the
> “original” was a literary composition incorporating and rephrasing an
> earlier document of some sort, it would be interesting to know the
> wording of that document.
How does that account for the unusual Persian(?) word "pas," which
three of your versions apparently render "lampstand," but which Marti
in his grammar guesses is "fingertipes"?
> Apropos of some earlier exchanges about “handwriting” versus
> “writing,” I see in_The new Oxford annotated Bible_, 3ed ed. (2001),
> that the annotation for 5.1-9 has the heading, “The handwriting on the
> wall,” and 5.13-31 has “Deciphering the handwriting.”
> > >>> On Oct 3, 9:50 am, "Peter T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >>>> I forgot to add "Not even Shakespeare. Where do Shakewpeare movies
> > >>>> -- as opposed to modern reimaginings -- end up on each season's
> > >>>> popularity list?"
> > >>> At least in my time, a large number of people were made to read
> > >>> Shakespeare in highschool. Perhaps that's no longer true.
> > >> Of course it's true. As a parent of a highschoolfreshman, I can
> > >> attest that one Shakespeare play a year in highschoolis as much a
> > >> constant today as it was thirty years ago when I was in highschool.
> > >> My son's (private) middleschoolread them in seventh and eigth
> > >> grade, too--and took aschooltrip to Ashland for the Oregon
> > >> Shakespeare Festival in seventh grade--but that's less common.
> > > So you admit he's receiving an elite education.
> > In this contest, it seems to me to be an important caveat, so it would
> > have been dishonest _not_ to tell.
> > And there are other types of private schools than "elite", even in the US.
> Yeah, this whole new movement of "charterschools," which are for-
> profit operations that take public money that then doesn't go to the
> public schools -- but that have full discretion as to whom they
> enroll, so that all the "problem children" are left to the public
> schools, the ones that require significantly more resources to educate.-
Here's one thing in favor of charter schools.
At the International Linguistic Association monthly meeting yesterday
morning, a talk on the language situation of the Tijuana-San Diego
border-crossers, I learned that bilingual and multicultural education
was outlawed in California by one of those "Proposition" things. As a
result, there are charter schools that offer bilingual and
muticultural education (for those who can afford them, of course).
Lanarcam <lanarc...@yahoo.fr> wrote:
> Nearly so: "Moi pas parler fran ais" but that was a language used
> in Africa, a sort of pidgin, by locals who had only notions of
> French and it was scorned upon by colonialists and called
> "petit n gre". No wonder it is no popular these days.
It also shows up in _Papillon_, where Charri re simply labels it
"patois" as far as I recall, so presumably it was a general colonial
thing.
-- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
>>On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 09:38:30 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
>><gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>>On Oct 3, 9:14 am, Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> >> If it is, then no. It's normal British usage for that sort of
>>>> >> institution. I'd expect a "School of Hotel Management" to cover
>>>> >> a lot more on non-restaurant business than a "Catering College"
>>>> >> for a start.
>>>> > "Catering" is the lowest form of food service -- it's what would-be
>>>> > restaurateurs do who can't break into the restaurant biz.
>>>> Somebody has weird prejudices.
>>>> People in catering often need specialized knowledge that a restaurant
>>>> chef doesn't have. My wife did degree-level dietetics and was a
>>>> registered dietitian for decades. Catering managers are often
>>>> responsible for everything their clients eat (in nursing homes,
>>>> prisons, hospitals, residential schools), so they have to understand
>>>> nutrition. Whereas a restaurant chef is perfectly free to provide
>>>> meals that would have you dying of malnutrition within weeks if that
>>>> was all you ate; what they're doing is basically showbiz.
>>>Do the institutions you list not have their own food service
>>>departments?
>>>"Catering" is bringing food in from outside, for parties and such.
>>That is one use of the word.
>I've just remembered that in some universities in the UK the food
>service department, that is, the department that feeds the staff and
>students, is named the "catering" department.
>SU CC also offers Buffet Catering. That is, the department provides a
>buffet for an event at a time and place specified by the event
>organiser.
>http://www.swansea.ac.uk/catering/buffetcatering/
> We will need the following information:
> The name of the person making the booking with contact details
> Department
> [charging details]
> Date of event
> Time of delivery
> Building and room number for the delivery
The usage of "catering" that always throws me at first is the
"self-catering holiday cottages". I know it means "you prepare your
own meals", but "catering" has a particular connotation. So, my
impression of a self-catering cottage wants to be one in which you go
somewhere else, prepare a meal, and bring it to yourself in your
rented cottage.
Charles Bishop <ctbis...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Then it's undoubtedly that I misremember, for I was told the version I
> used by someone on USENET, and they are sure to be correct, nes pas?
^^^^^^^
n'est-ce pas
(Does anybody this side of the 19th century actually say that?)
-- Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de
On Oct 7, 7:26 am, na...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) wrote:
> Charles Bishop <ctbis...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Then it's undoubtedly that I misremember, for I was told the version I
> > used by someone on USENET, and they are sure to be correct, nes pas?
> ^^^^^^^
> n'est-ce pas
> (Does anybody this side of the 19th century actually say that?)
I would, but maybe I didn't get the e-mail. What do French people in
the 21st century do for tag questions?
>>> (Does anybody this side of the 19th century actually say that?)
>> Well I was taught at school that "n'est-ce pas" was the normal French
>> tag question. What do people actually say?
> I seem to hear "nes' pa" but perhaps Lanarcam can clear this up. I
> agree that "n'est-ce pas" would be printed.
Ys, it is true that we say "n s'pa". However, "n'est-ce pas" belongs
more to a high register. You could say usually something like
"il va pleuvoir, non ?" instead of "il va pleuvoir, n'est ce pas ?"
(It is going to rain, isn't it?)
> > > > > > > > I still don't see why "he saw the hand writing on the
> > > > > > > > wall" is not a reasonable allusion to the Biblical story
> > > > > > > > by way of one of its key elements. Of course its
> > > > > > > > proverbial use nowadays usually does not include the word
> > > > > > > > "hand". But someone who knew the story might well include
> > > > > > > > it. And that would be less odd, it seems to me, than
> > > > > > > > "handwriting", which has occasioned all this discussion.
> > > > > > > I first heard it as 'handwriting', and that's still the
> > > > > > > version that comes to mind first, with 'writing' a distant
> > > > > > > second (and 'hand writing' a non-starter).
> > > > > > The complete paralllel Bible (OUP) includes two versions produced by
> > > > > > ecumenical councils (Protestant Anglican, Roman Catholic, Orthodox,
> > > > > > and Jewish) in the US and UK respectively, and two produced primarily
> > > > > > by Catholic scholars in the US and UK respectively:
> > > > > > “So from his presence the hand was sent and this writing was
> > > > > > inscribed. And this is the writing that was inscribed [...].” (NRSV)
> > > > > > “That is why he sent the hand and why it wrote this inscription. The
> > > > > > words inscribed were [...].” (REV)
> > > > > > “By him were the wrist and the hand sent, and the writing set down.
> > > > > > This is the writing that was inscribed [...].” (NAB)
> > > > > > “That is why he has sent the hand which has written these words. The
> > > > > > writing reads [...].” (NJB)
> > > > > You don't seem to be looking at the same verse as everyone else ("the
> > > > > fingers of a man's hand").-- the word for "finger" (es.b`a) is not in
> > > > > question.
> > > > The above, from 5.24-25, immediately precedes “Mene, mene, tekel
> > > > [...].”
> > > > This is the beginning of 5.5:
> > > > “Immediately the fingers of a human hand appeared and began writing on
> > > > the plaster of the wall of the royal palace, next to the
> > > > lampstand” (NRSV)
> > > > “Suddenly there appeared the fingers of a human hand writing on the
> > > > plaster of the palace wall opposite the lamp” (REV)
> > > > “Suddenly opposite the lampstand, the fingers of a human hand
> > > > appeared, writing on the plaster wall in the king’s palace” (NAB)
> > > > “Suddenly, the fingers of a human hand appeared and began to write on
> > > > the plaster of the palace wall, directly behind the lamp-stand” (NJB)
> > > > Christopher Ingham
> > > According to Kohlenberger the word-for-word is
> > > "in-her the-moment they-appeared fingers of hand-of human and-ones-
> > > writing at-near the-lampstand on the-plaster of wall-of the-palace of
> > > the-royalty"
> > > Why mess with translations when the original is so easy to find?
> > That looks like a translation.... The NRSV and NAB, btw, are more
> > literal translations (of the book as we have it), while the REB and
> > NJB are freer.
> > You can’t be certain that_the_original text survives. There’s no
> > agreement as to whether the present-day form of the book was composed
> > as a unity or in a complex redactional process, or whether the Aramaic
> > parts of the book were originally in Aramaic or Hebrew. If the
> > “original” was a literary composition incorporating and rephrasing an
> > earlier document of some sort, it would be interesting to know the
> > wording of that document.
> How does that account for the unusual Persian(?) word "pas," which
> three of your versions apparently render "lampstand," but which Marti
> in his grammar guesses is "fingertipes"?
I’m not conversant generally with particular decision-making
processess of modern-day translators. Perhaps some have thought that
Theodotion has it right?
It’s not remarkable to me that there would be Persian loanwords in a
book written (partly) in Aramaic at a time when Aramaic was the
official language of the Parthian empire. Daniel, moreover, shares
with Zoroastrianism an emphasis on eschatological themes.
> > Apropos of some earlier exchanges about “handwriting” versus
> > “writing,” I see in_The new Oxford annotated Bible_, 3ed ed. (2001),
> > that the annotation for 5.1-9 has the heading, “The handwriting on the
> > wall,” and 5.13-31 has “Deciphering the handwriting.”
T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>On Oct 6, 5:18=A0pm, Jack Campin <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> [meaning *outside* caterers here]
>> >>> caterers, no matter how good their product, are, and are
>> >>> supposed to be, invisible.
>> >> What gives you the idea?
>> > They are servants. Servants do their job behind the scenes.
>> > If they must appear in public they must be inconspicuous.
>> > They must not make eye contact with the guests.
>> In the UK (somewhat less class-ridden than the US) it doesn't
>> usually work like that. =A0Many outside catering businesses are
>> one- or two-person firms, and they need all the contacts they
>> can get. =A0They'll make a point of getting the guests to try
>> their signature dishes and making sure they take a business
>> card.
>At parties to which the public is invited (as opposed to private
>affairs), the caterer will discreetly leave a tray of their business
>cards where the interested can find it.
I think this is more likely rather than asking people if they would like a
business card. However, it depends on the situation. If a guest, having
tried a signature dish, begins a conversation, I don't think it would be
untoward for a caterer to ask if they would like a card.
>> >> >> >> On Oct 4, 11:09=3D3D3DA0pm, ctbis...@earthlink.net (Charles Bish=
>op) w=3D
>> >rote:
>> >> >> >>> In article
>> >> >> >>> <75efe56b-9e97-41d3-a9d4-7ae1be3aa...@w3g2000yqe.googlegroups.c=
>om>=3D
>> >, "=3D3D
>> >> >Pete=3D3D3D
>> >> >> >> r
>> >> >> >>> T. Daniels" <gramma...@verizon.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>> On Oct 3, 10:28=3D3D3D3DA0pm, ctbis...@earthlink.net (Charles =
>Bisho=3D
>> >p) wr=3D3D
>> >> >ote:
>> >> >> >>>>> I fully support public schools being able to choose whom they=
> ed=3D
>> >uca=3D3D
>> >> >te =3D3D3D
>> >> >> >> as =3D3D3D3D
>> >> >> >>>> well.
>> >> >> >>>> So you would welcome a vast cadre of illiterates untrained for=
> an=3D
>> >y
>> >> >> >>>> occupation?
>> >> >> >>> What made you think that I would welcome them, from what I wrot=
>e?
>> >> >> >> That you would allow public schools (which are the schools of la=
>st
>> >> >> >> resort) to reject potential students -- who thus could not recei=
>ve =3D
>> >an
>> >> >> >> education.
>> >> >> > I am still wondering why you think I would *welcome* this. I adde=
>d t=3D
>> >he
>> >> >> > emphasis because this is what I'm having trouble with. How did yo=
>u c=3D
>> >ome=3D3D
>> >> > to
>> >> >> > infer that I would welcome the results?
>> >> >> I think he assumes that there would be a 'vast cadre' of students t=
>oss=3D
>> >ed
>> >> >> out by public schools, and therefore anyone who thinks that a publi=
>c
>> >> >> school should have some control over which students they can accept
>> >> >> agrees that the rejected students will form a very large group and =
>cau=3D
>> >se
>> >> >> severe social problems, and also thinks this is a good idea instead=
> of
>> >> >> perhaps an unavoidable side-effect or perhaps something that might =
>not
>> >> >> happen at all.
>> >> >Since the public schools _already_ take anyone who is rejected from a
>> >> >private school or a charter school, it's _starting_ with a lower
>> >> >average. Anyone rejected by the public school under Charles's proposa=
>l
>> >> >will have nowhere to go.
>> >> And?
>> >> I'm still unsure why you used "welcome".
>> >You offered the proposal with no hint of its undesirablilty. (BTW I
>> >don't see any emphasis anywhere.)
>> So, because I made a neutral statemlent, you decided to infer my
>> intentions or state of mind? Doesn't seem fair to me and a way to derail =
>a
>> discussion.
>You made a suggestion -- more than a suggestion, something you "fully
>support" -- I explored it.
Exploring it would have been asking me questions. Instead you imputed to
me a view that you don't know if I have.
-- charles, my second will call upon yours, sirrah
In article <mn.34077dca9a0c6cdd.127094@snitoo>, snidely....@gmail.com wrote:
>Robert Bannister explained on 10/6/2012 :
>> On 6/10/12 11:25 AM, Charles Bishop wrote:
>> I assume that French is like other
>>> languages and the word order, while it contributes to the structure, is
>>> flexible.
>> I wouldn't say the German or English word order was totally flexible. There >> are certainly some things in French that are fixed.
Where did that "totally" come from? I will be in the camp that "wouldn't
say the German (mein Gott!) or English word order was totally flexible."
>On a logarithmic scale, AIUI, Chinese ranks at the top, English in the >next n-cade (decade for base 10 logs), and most European languages in >the n-cade below that. Latin would be the baseline. Conversely, >inflection goes the other way.
>I'm not sure what other languages would rank as high or higher than >English.
I have no idea what this means. I may be in the wrong group.
>>>>> >There are very few Cuban( refugee)s in the US
>>>About 1.9 million as of 2011. More than one for every six in Cuba.
>> Not quibbling, just asking. Do they count dependents of the original
>> refugees that were born in the US?.
>They count anybody here who identifies themselves as of Cuban
>ethnicity on the census forms. That would include immigrants (whether
>refugees or not) and their descendants.
Thanks. Looking, I now understand the parenthetical. I assume the earliest
descendants would have a similar political view as the refugees. I think
this may get diluted as more "Cubans" are born here.
