I am a teacher of Spanish but not a Spanish teacher
isl...@volcanomail.com
teacher of Spanish. To call myself a Spanish teacher is describing my
nationality. I was recently told that no, I am a Spanish teacher.
I am aware that English countries do not have an Academy as do France
and Spain, hence no final word on anything. Is there a general rule I
can use/quote? Am I a Spanish teacher or a teacher of Spanish?
Thank you
Skitt
It all depends whether you want to be unambiguous or not.
I'd say that you are an American teacher. You teach Spanish. You are a
teacher of Spanish.
--
Skitt
Ever ready to retract the aforesaid and aver the opposite.
the Omrud
Either, depending on context, but I would say that (UK English)
"Spanish teacher" is much more common and one would only revert to
"teacher of Spanish" if there's likely to be any confusion.
At my school (35 years ago), we were perfectly happy to describe
those who taught English as "English teachers", even if they were
Welsh or Australian. And my Russian teacher was very certainly
English.
The BBC is careful to describe reporters as (e.g.) "our France
correspondent" or "our Wales correspondent", but this is a case where
"our Welsh correspondent" could be taken either way. "Who is your
Spanish teacher" cannot be so confused.
--
David
=====
R H Draney
(We've done this before, have we not?)...
Emil Jannings's character in the movie "Der blaue Engel" was a German
man who taught English to German boys...I would hesitate only slightly
before describing him as "an English teacher"...(more troublesome is
the translation of the sort of school in which he taught; if I say
"high school" Americans will understand the age range of the students,
but German cognate "Hochschule" means what Americans would call
"college", and the German dialogue calls it a "Gymnasium", which
suggests an entirely different image)....r
Frank ess
My Russian teacher was Russian (Mockba). At the end of the second year
he brushed away a tear and said, "Frahnk, Frahnk, vere haf I failed
you?"
--
Frank ess
ceceliaa...@yahoo.com
isla...@volcanomail.com ha escrito:
In my American high school, the Americans who taught French were French
teachers. The Latvian who taught German was a German teacher. The
German who taught German was a German teacher. The Americans who
taught Spanish or Latin were Spanish teachers or Latin teachers. The
Americans who taught literature were English teachers (even those who
taught junior year's "American literature"). If your nationality is
important to the conversation, then state it separately and say that
you teach Spanish.
Which variety of Spanish do you teach? I've known Spanish teachers who
were naturalized Americans but came from different countries: Mexico,
Peru, and Cuba.
Cece
Mike Lyle
If it's not an impertinent question, have you been an American all your
life?
--
Mike.
John Kane
Sounds like he beats my English teacher of Russian who was a really
pretentious little. ... . My Bylorussian teacher of Russian was great
as was my Russian teacher of French. My Rumanian teacher of French was
terrifying.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
isl...@volcanomail.com
cousins in Ecuador, Argentina and Uruguay. My teachers of Spanish were
American, Cuban, Mexican and Spanish. I have lived in Mexico, Spain and
Paraguay. So I suppose I teach a Pan-Spanish Spanish. My accent is
mostly Mexican with a slight Spanish accent mixed in that some people
ask me about.
isl...@volcanomail.com
teacher. :-)
> --
> Mike.
isl...@volcanomail.com
Peacenik
news:1157577252.8...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
You're both.
In particular, you're a "Spanish teacher" (with "Spanish" stressed and
"teacher" unstressed), not a "Spanish teacher" (both words stressed, with
"teacher" sometimes given a little more stress). Compare "an English major"
(somemone who majors in English in college) with "an English major",
(someone who's a major in the British Army).
As usual, what I state in this group is my opinion, not an assertion of
universal fact.
Raymond S. Wise
In my American high school, we had a choice of only two foreign
languages to study, with only one teacher each. Neither the Spanish
teacher nor the French teacher was Spanish or French.
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
T.H. Entity
<cnelso...@hotmail.com> wrought:
That may well be, but it's still the best answer the OP's had so far.
--
THE
"If you or I use a word inappropriately, that's an error. If a newspaper
uses a word inappropriately, that's a citation source for the dictionaries."
-- Peter Moylan
athel...@yahoo
avoid it you have to say "a teacher of Spanish".
In speech (at least in BrE) there is much less ambiguity because the
stress patterns are different. If you mean a teacher of Spanish you
would usually say "Spanish teacher" with the stress on the first word;
if you mean a teacher of Spanish nationality you would stress both
words about equally, or you would put a little more stress on the
second word.
athel
bert
isl...@volcanomail.com wrote:
Since "Latin teacher" is unambiguous, it is reasonable
for "Spanish teacher" to denote the same relationship
of the terms, mutatis mutandis. If the writer wishes it
to mean something else, he should be more explicit.
--
Donna Richoux
Just to be clear, are you referring there to the distinction of identity
between American-from-the-Americas vs. Spanish-from-Spain?
The difference between American-from-the-Americas and
American-from-the-USA is an old sore point here; please see our
statement at:
http://alt-usage-english.org/intro_c.shtml#American
However, there is very little confusion in English between a person's
language and their nationality. You can be Mexican and speak Spanish,
you can be Swiss and speak German, you can be American and speak
English, you can be Belgian and speak French, etc. This can be taken one
step further as to how you are employed as a teacher -- you could be
Russian by birth, American by nationality (as a US naturalized citizen),
and employed as a French teacher, all three.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Wayne Brown
> Emil Jannings's character in the movie "Der blaue Engel" was a
> German man who taught English to German boys...I would
> hesitate only slightly before describing him as "an English
> teacher"...(more troublesome is translation of the sort
> of school in which he taught; if I say "high school"
> Americans will understand the age range of the students,
> but German cognate "Hochschule" means whatAmericans
> would call "college", and the German dialogue calls it a
>"Gymnasium", which suggests an entirely different image)....r
Emil Jannings's character in the movie didn't teach English. His
subject was German, at a level where the main emphasis was on
composition. You'll recall the pupils in the movie writing
essays in his class. That word "Gymnasium," in my opinion, is a
like grain of
sand in an oyster in English: it rubs and rubs and rubs. Some
people in the US who have occasion to refer to it try to get
around it by using "academic high school." As far as the
children's ages are concerned, it's hard to guess what Americans
think if a German boy of 11 says he's attending a German "high
school." At that age, a child can be in the beginning grade of a
German gymnasium. If all goes well, he'll be 19 when he
graduates. If, however, he's like Lohmann in "Der blaue
Engel"who failed twice along the way, he'll be 21 when he
finishes the last, 13th grade.
A funny aside to this: unlike the situation in the Weimar
Republic, when "Der Blaue Engel" was made, German youngsters now
reach legal maturity at the age of 18, although some are still
in school. That means they can vote in the country's elections,
and their parents may no longer sign their report cards or write
an excuse for illness. They have to do that themselves.
"Hochschule" is a general word in German designating an
"institution of higher learning," including all kinds of
colleges, academies etc. It's used for a teacher's college, a
college of advanced technology and a number of others. A typical
example is the internationally well-known "Hochschule für Musik
und Theater" in Munich, where a student can even pursue a course
of study leading to a doctorate. They themselves translate their
name into English as "University of Music and Performing Arts
Munich." Take a look:
http://www.musikhochschule-muenchen.mhn.de/mainFrame.htm
Regards, WB.
Alan Jones
> R H Draney wrote:
>
>> Emil Jannings's character in the movie "Der blaue Engel" was a
>> German man who taught English to German boys...I would
>> hesitate only slightly before describing him as "an English
>> teacher"...(more troublesome is translation of the sort
>> of school in which he taught; if I say "high school"
>> Americans will understand the age range of the students,
>> but German cognate "Hochschule" means whatAmericans
>> would call "college", and the German dialogue calls it a
>> "Gymnasium", which suggests an entirely different image)....r
>
> Emil Jannings's character in the movie didn't teach English. His
> subject was German, at a level where the main emphasis was on
> composition. You'll recall the pupils in the movie writing
> essays in his class. That word "Gymnasium," in my opinion, is a
> like grain of
> sand in an oyster in English: it rubs and rubs and rubs. Some
> people in the US who have occasion to refer to it try to get
> around it by using "academic high school."
"Gymnasium" with a capital G and pronounced in an approximately German way
is acceptable to the UK reader or viewer in a novel or "art" film, though
the obvious BrE translation would be "grammar school". I realise that
doesn't work in the US.
The "English teacher" wakwardness can surely be eliminated by using "teacher
of English" or "teacher from England" as appropriate.
Alan Jones
T.H. Entity
wrought:
How do you pronounce a capital G?
>
>The "English teacher" [awk]wardness can surely be eliminated by using "teacher
>of English" or "teacher from England" as appropriate.
I think that, by default, "Spanish teachers" means "teachers of
Spanish" in everyday English. The cases when we need to talk about
teachers of an (unspecified subject) who come from Spain would be
relatively few, I think, but if I did have to write it I'd probably go
with "Spanish-born teachers" if they're working in a different country
or "teachers in Spain" if they've stayed put. (When we're speaking the
ambiguity doesn't arise, of course, as Peacenik said).
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:51:50 GMT, "Alan Jones" <a...@blueyonder.co.uk>
>wrought:
>
>How do you pronounce a capital G?
>>
>>The "English teacher" [awk]wardness can surely be eliminated by using "teacher
>>of English" or "teacher from England" as appropriate.
>
>I think that, by default, "Spanish teachers" means "teachers of
>Spanish" in everyday English.
In the US, the default would also be "teachers of Spanish". A teacher
who is Spanish would be a "Hispanic teacher" unless we knew that she
was actually from Spain. Then she would be "the teacher from Spain".
--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL
Alan Jones
> On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:51:50 GMT, "Alan Jones" <a...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> wrought:
>
> How do you pronounce a capital G?
Perhaps I unduly telescoped a comment on the spelling of Gymnasium in a
novel and its pronunciation in a film.
Alan Jones
K. Edgcombe
<ceceliaa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> I am aware that English countries do not have an Academy as do France
>> and Spain, hence no final word on anything. Is there a general rule I
>> can use/quote? Am I a Spanish teacher or a teacher of Spanish?
I agree with others who have said that the default meaning of "Spanish teacher"
is a teacher of Spanish. In speech, however, I think people would distinguish
the two meanings by altering the stress. Speking of a teacher of Spanish, the
strongest stress would be on the first syllable. For a teacher who happened to
come from Spain, there'd be a stronger stress on the first syllable
of "teacher". Don't ask me why, but if someone said "I met my Spanish
teacher", I could ask "Is that your Spa'nish teacher or your Spanish tea'cher?"
and expect to be understood.
Katy
Salvatore Volatile
> In the US, the default would also be "teachers of Spanish". A teacher
> who is Spanish would be a "Hispanic teacher" unless we knew that she
> was actually from Spain. Then she would be "the teacher from Spain".
Say what? Okay, but you're talking about a use of "Spanish" that is now
deprecated and probably more obsolete than "Oriental" (I'm not sure I've
heard "Spanish" = Hispanic since 1987, though it might survive in
lower-class speech [NTTAWWLCS]). As for "Hispanic", that's being
replaced with "Latino" (which excludes, or ought to exclude, Iberians).
"Hispanic" still comes more naturally to me than "Latino", but I don't
hear or see it used as much as "Latino" these days.
--
Salvatore Volatile
Mike Lyle
I'm sorry: I still haven't got my old head round the obvious idea that
USAns don't all have English as their principal language. As others
have said, the written expression doesn't by default refer to your
nationality, though it needs the appropriate stress pattern in speech.
--
Mike.
Tony Cooper
I know this will amaze you, but the whole world has not yet caught up
to you. We don't all look at "Spanish" and "Hispanic" as deprecated
terms.
The Grammer Genious
"K. Edgcombe" <ke...@cus.cam.ac.uk> wrote
> <...>Don't ask me why, but if someone said "I met my Spanish
> teacher", I could ask "Is that your Spa'nish teacher or your Spanish
> tea'cher?"
> and expect to be understood.
It's because if the word Spanish is an adjective, each word gets its own
stress (e.g. "fur coat"). But if Spanish means the Spanish language, then it
is a noun used attributively, in which case the whole noun phrase is a
single word (despite how it's written), and gets a single main stress (e.g.
"fur ball")..
Robert Bannister
> isl...@volcanomail.com wrote:
>
>> I am an American teacher. I teach Spanish. I was taught that I was a
>> teacher of Spanish. To call myself a Spanish teacher is describing my
>> nationality. I was recently told that no, I am a Spanish teacher.
>>
>> I am aware that English countries do not have an Academy as do France
>> and Spain, hence no final word on anything. Is there a general rule I
>> can use/quote? Am I a Spanish teacher or a teacher of Spanish?
>
>
> It all depends whether you want to be unambiguous or not.
>
> I'd say that you are an American teacher. You teach Spanish. You are a
> teacher of Spanish.
>
I can't speak for America, but anywhere else "Spanish teacher" would be
understood to mean you teach Spanish.
--
Rob Bannister
Linz
Thank you. I was waiting to see if this had been posted and I'm glad I did
because you've written far more fluently than I would have.
John Savage
>I am an American teacher. I teach Spanish. I was taught that I was a
>teacher of Spanish. To call myself a Spanish teacher is describing my
>nationality. I was recently told that no, I am a Spanish teacher.
I wouldn't sweat over it. Given the way timetables are typically
organised in schools, in no time at all you'll discover that you are
really a Spanish/English/Junior Maths teacher.
--
John Savage (my news address is not valid for email)
R H Draney
>
>isl...@volcanomail.com writes:
>>I am an American teacher. I teach Spanish. I was taught that I was a
>>teacher of Spanish. To call myself a Spanish teacher is describing my
>>nationality. I was recently told that no, I am a Spanish teacher.
>
>I wouldn't sweat over it. Given the way timetables are typically
>organised in schools, in no time at all you'll discover that you are
>really a Spanish/English/Junior Maths teacher.
And coach of the girls' volleyball team....r
--
It's the crack on the wall and the stain on the cup that gets to you
in the very end...every cat has its fall when it runs out of luck,
so you can do with a touch of zen...cause when you're screwed,
you're screwed...and when it's blue, it's blue.
Peter Moylan
> isl...@volcanomail.com writes:
>> I am an American teacher. I teach Spanish. I was taught that I was
>> a teacher of Spanish. To call myself a Spanish teacher is
>> describing my nationality. I was recently told that no, I am a
>> Spanish teacher.
>
> I wouldn't sweat over it. Given the way timetables are typically
> organised in schools, in no time at all you'll discover that you are
> really a Spanish/English/Junior Maths teacher.
My first wife did secretarial work to support herself while a student at
an art school. After she got a job as an art teacher, she ended up
teaching typing and sewing.
I can't complain. She taught me to type, a now-vital skill that my
school taught only to girls.
By the way, she lost her job as a result of meeting me. In those days,
female school teachers automatically lost their job if they got married.
In hindsight that's really hard to believe. It's like something from
another century. Come to think of it, it was another century.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Please note the changed e-mail and web addresses. The domain
eepjm.newcastle.edu.au no longer exists, and I can no longer
receive mail at my newcastle.edu.au addresses. The optusnet
address could disappear at any time.
Robert Bannister
> John Savage wrote:
>
>> isl...@volcanomail.com writes:
>>
>>> I am an American teacher. I teach Spanish. I was taught that I was a
>>> teacher of Spanish. To call myself a Spanish teacher is describing my
>>> nationality. I was recently told that no, I am a Spanish teacher.
>>
>>
>> I wouldn't sweat over it. Given the way timetables are typically
>> organised in schools, in no time at all you'll discover that you are
>> really a Spanish/English/Junior Maths teacher.
>
>
> My first wife did secretarial work to support herself while a student at
> an art school. After she got a job as an art teacher, she ended up
> teaching typing and sewing.
As Head of Department (for) Languages Other Than English (or HOD LOTE in
edu-speak), I taught at various times Social Studies (Yrs 8-10), English
(Yr 8), Maths (Yrs 8-11), Girls Phys Ed (Yrs 8-10), Media Studies
(whatever that is), Human Relations (don't ask) and Guitar. I managed to
get away with refusing to teach any science subject or photography. In
many cases, I took on the job to spare one of my teachers, who were even
less qualified, from having to do it.
--
Rob Bannister
Vinny Burgoo
>As Head of Department (for) Languages Other Than English (or HOD LOTE
>in edu-speak), I taught at various times Social Studies (Yrs 8-10),
>English (Yr 8), Maths (Yrs 8-11), Girls Phys Ed (Yrs 8-10), Media
>Studies (whatever that is), Human Relations (don't ask) and Guitar. I
>managed to get away with refusing to teach any science subject or
>photography. In many cases, I took on the job to spare one of my
>teachers, who were even less qualified, from having to do it.
Sorry, but I am going to ignore your request: What is Human Relations
when it's at home?
--
V
Peter Duncanson
A high-falutin title for Sex Education -- how to do it, and why and
when not to do it, perhaps.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Garrett Wollman
In my (Catholic) high school, it was called "Christian Development".
No joke. (Although at least it was taught by a nun who had lived in
the real world before taking vows.)
-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | As the Constitution endures, persons in every
wol...@csail.mit.edu | generation can invoke its principles in their own
Opinions not those | search for greater freedom.
of MIT or CSAIL. | - A. Kennedy, Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558 (2003)
Vinny Burgoo
>Peter Duncanson <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 12:21:27 +0100, Vinny Burgoo
>>>Sorry, but I am going to ignore your request: What is Human Relations
>>>when it's at home?
>>
>>A high-falutin title for Sex Education -- how to do it, and why and
>>when not to do it, perhaps.
>
>In my (Catholic) high school, it was called "Christian Development".
>No joke. (Although at least it was taught by a nun who had lived in
>the real world before taking vows.)
Ah! All we got when I were a lad was The Parable of the Withered Palm
Tree.
--
V
Mike Lyle
AKA "Use it or lose it".
--
Mike.
Robert Bannister
Not really, or at least only in part. It was more about morals. Lessons
were sort of structured around situations, perhaps a mini-play or comic
strip, and the kids were asked what they would do in similar situations
and why. Sex came into a bit, but not the mechanics. In some ways, it
was a Good Idea, but it was rather vague.
--
Rob Bannister
Linz
> My first wife did secretarial work to support herself while a student
> at an art school. After she got a job as an art teacher, she ended up
> teaching typing and sewing.
>
> I can't complain. She taught me to type, a now-vital skill that my
> school taught only to girls.
>
> By the way, she lost her job as a result of meeting me. In those days,
> female school teachers automatically lost their job if they got
> married. In hindsight that's really hard to believe. It's like
> something from another century. Come to think of it, it was another
> century.
When my school was founded, it was stipulated that the girls'
school-mistress was to be a spinster. Two hundred years later it was still
the case that the mistresses (for by then the school had grown) were
spinsters. The rule was relaxed during the 20th century to allow teachers to
remain in post after they married but it wasn't until the late 1980s that
the retiring headmistress was replaced by a married woman. It was still
possible before I left school to work out which teachers had hoped to become
head because they were unmarried.
Vinny Burgoo
>Peter Duncanson wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 12:21:27 +0100, Vinny Burgoo
>>>Sorry, but I am going to ignore your request: What is Human Relations
>>>when it's at home?
>> A high-falutin title for Sex Education -- how to do it, and why and
>> when not to do it, perhaps.
>
>Not really, or at least only in part. It was more about morals. Lessons
>were sort of structured around situations, perhaps a mini-play or comic
>strip, and the kids were asked what they would do in similar situations
>and why. Sex came into a bit, but not the mechanics. In some ways, it
>was a Good Idea, but it was rather vague.
So what's the difference between that and Media Studies?
--
V
Vinny Burgoo
>Vinny Burgoo wrote:
>> Ah! All we got when I were a lad was The Parable of the Withered Palm
>> Tree.
>
>AKA "Use it or lose it".
Hardly. (Geddit?) The message was that if you climbed the tree too many
times your nuts would fall off.
--
V
nycram
isl...@volcanomail.com wrote:
> I am an American teacher. I teach Spanish. I was taught that I was a
> teacher of Spanish. To call myself a Spanish teacher is describing my
> nationality. I was recently told that no, I am a Spanish teacher.
>
> and Spain, hence no final word on anything. Is there a general rule I
> can use/quote? Am I a Spanish teacher or a teacher of Spanish?
>
Listen to yourself say "Spanish teacher" when you mean "teacher of
Spanish" and then listen to yourself say the same written words when
you mean "Spanish person who teaches".
You'll find that the two expressions sound different. In the first
case, the primary accent is on Spanish, in the second case there are
two primary accents, one on each of the words.
The two phrases are ambiguous only in the written form.
Gary
Robert Bannister
I never quite figured out what Media Studies was. I think it was about
false advertising or something. I mainly used to chat to my class. I
think that was the class where a 15-year-old girl told me her ambition
was to be a prostitute.
--
Rob Bannister