Ridiculous euphemism

[Reinhold {Rey} Aman]

From:

<http://www.wave3.com/story/22240730/police-man-drank-beer-smoked-cooked-while-in-grocery>

"Runyon also allegedly went to bathroom on himself <-----
and got clothes to change into."

Explaining to our Foreign Friends:

"To go to bathroom on oneself" = to shit and/or piss one's pants.

--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~

[fabzorba]

On 15 May, 15:29, Reinhold {Rey} Aman <a...@sonic.net> wrote:
> From:
>
> <http://www.wave3.com/story/22240730/police-man-drank-beer-smoked-cook...>

>
> "Runyon also allegedly went to bathroom on himself   <-----
> and got clothes to change into."
>
> Explaining to our Foreign Friends:
>
> "To go to bathroom on oneself" = to shit and/or piss one's pants.

Explanation to our "Foreign Friends" should contrast this usage with
"To go to bathroom on someone else", which will lead naturally to
elucidation of the term "golden showers".

Btw, how do other languages express the notion of "golden showers"?

[Mike L]

That's even better than the classic "He went to the bathroom in his
pants."

--
Mike.

[Joe Fineman]

I have heard this absurdity in the U.S. from time to time -- usually
in the form "went to the bathroom in his pants" (which taken literally
would describe a very usual occurrence).
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: When you were born, you cried and others rejoiced. Live so :||
||: that when you die, others cry and you rejoice. :||

[Eric Walker]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 17:25:00 -0400, Joe Fineman wrote:

[...]

> I have heard this absurdity in the U.S. from time to time -- usually in
> the form "went to the bathroom in his pants" (which taken literally
> would describe a very usual occurrence).

Dunno. A vision of someone going off to the bathroom not in pants seems,
um, striking.


--
Cordially,
Eric Walker

[Leslie Danks]

Wha' ur yew lookin' a', Jimmy? (Pulls skean duh out of sock.)

--
Les (BrE)
"... be skeptical of government guidelines. The Indians learned not to trust
our government and neither should you." (Fallon & Enig)

[Dr Nick]

Reinhold {Rey} Aman <am...@sonic.net> writes:

That is quite remarkable. As well as the absurd euphemism it conjures
up the image of some sort of out-of-body experience.

[Walter P. Zähl]

Wouldn't it rather be streaking?

/Walter

[Jerry Friedman]

Very good!

A woman going off to the bathroom not in pants would hardly be
surprising. A man doing so from his bedroom wouldn't be
particularly surprising either, especially with the American
definition of "pants".

--
Jerry Friedman

[Whiskers]

Or more formally, "... soiled himself". ("Soil" being a euphemism for
bodily waste).

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Leslie Danks]

And if your wearing armour (at 45 seconds):

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg>

[Reinhold {Rey} Aman]

Whiskers wrote:
>
> ("Soil" being a euphemism for bodily waste).
>

Night soil, night soil,
Daylight come and me wan' go home.

[Christian Weisgerber]

Reinhold {Rey} Aman <am...@sonic.net> wrote:

> <http://www.wave3.com/story/22240730/police-man-drank-beer-smoked-cooked-while-in-grocery>
>
> "Runyon also allegedly went to bathroom on himself <-----
> and got clothes to change into."

I'm surprised by the missing article. Can you "go to bathroom"
rather than "go to the bathroom"?

> Explaining to our Foreign Friends:
>
> "To go to bathroom on oneself" = to shit and/or piss one's pants.

Not any sillier than "the dog went to the bathroom on the carpet".

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de

[Vinny Burgoo]

In alt.usage.english, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
>Reinhold {Rey} Aman <am...@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> <http://www.wave3.com/story/22240730/police-man-drank-beer-smoked-
>>cooked-while-in-grocery>
>>
>> "Runyon also allegedly went to bathroom on himself <-----
>> and got clothes to change into."
>
>I'm surprised by the missing article. Can you "go to bathroom"
>rather than "go to the bathroom"?

Apparently, yes. Professor Google can find lots of examples. Here's a
Catholic youth ministry organiser who thinks that faking larval
micturition is a good way of getting da yoof down with Da Man (one for
fabzorba, perhaps):

When the caterpillar [four or five stooped children under a
blanket] walks over the volunteer, someone under the blanket
(towards the back) has been holding the glass of water the whole
time. They spill the water all over the volunteer making it look
like the caterpillar went to bathroom all over them.

It has even entered legalese:

See In re Shamika F., 256 Conn. 383, 392 n.10, 773 A.2d 347
(2001) (respondents found to have substance abuse problems, to
have sexually, physically abused children, including grabbing
children so hard they bruised, hitting children with belts,
leaving children without food or necessities, making children go
to bathroom on floor)

>> Explaining to our Foreign Friends:
>>
>> "To go to bathroom on oneself" = to shit and/or piss one's pants.
>
>Not any sillier than "the dog went to the bathroom on the carpet".

Or Runyon allegedly going to see himself about a dog.

(Incidentally, the article has been changed. It now says that Runyon
'soiled himself'. Also, I don't think the current headline would wash in
Britain, where singular 'grocery' is only used attributively. And
there's an 'and' missing in the 4th para. And the writer forgot to
mention what Runyon did with the 57 cans of whipped cream . Commenters
say he most likely whippited it.)

--
VB

[Mike L]

On Fri, 17 May 2013 19:12:34 +0100, Vinny Burgoo <hlu...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

I'm assuming the unsatisfactory aerosol whipped cream. In his
position, I don't think I could have resisted seeing how much you
could get out of a can in a single blast, and after that, just seeing
how deep a pat of foam one could make with a whole shelf of the stuff.
Maybe something for a bucket list.

--
Mike.

[Professor Redwine]

On Wednesday, 15 May 2013 11:37:43 UTC+2, fabzorba wrote:

> Btw, how do other languages express the notion of "golden showers"?

One German expression is "Natursekt" - natural sparkling wine. Other than that, the English euphemisms are also used here without translation.

[Mike Barnes]

Professor Redwine <jakob...@gmail.com>:

>On Wednesday, 15 May 2013 11:37:43 UTC+2, fabzorba wrote:
>
>> Btw, how do other languages express the notion of "golden showers"?
>
>One German expression is "Natursekt" - natural sparkling wine.

Sparkling? Really?

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

[Christian Weisgerber]

Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> Btw, how do other languages express the notion of "golden showers"?
> >
> >One German expression is "Natursekt" - natural sparkling wine.
>
> Sparkling? Really?

Yes, but stressed like this it's kind of a translation artifact.
"Sekt" is the compact German term for sparkling wine, or "bubbles"
as the British womenfolk tend to say.[1] There is no special mention
of sparkliness. And now you made me look up the etymology: It's
from French "vin sec". The -t is ill-explained ("irregular
development"). Intriguingly, Kluge says the shift in meaning from
dry wine to sparkling wine is due to the influence of English, where
the cognate term "sack" was "allegedly" (!?) used for champagne.
Somebody with access to the OED might want to cross-check that.


[1] I'm not certain that this geographic and sociolinguistic
restriction is in fact correct.

[Mike Barnes]

Christian Weisgerber <na...@mips.inka.de>:

>Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >> Btw, how do other languages express the notion of "golden showers"?
>> >
>> >One German expression is "Natursekt" - natural sparkling wine.
>>
>> Sparkling? Really?
>
>Yes, but stressed like this it's kind of a translation artifact.
>"Sekt" is the compact German term for sparkling wine, or "bubbles"
>as the British womenfolk tend to say.[1]

>[...]

>
>[1] I'm not certain that this geographic and sociolinguistic
> restriction is in fact correct.

I have my doubts too, assuming you mean "bubbly".

[Professor Redwine]

On Thursday, 23 May 2013 20:08:02 UTC+2, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > >> Btw, how do other languages express the notion of "golden showers"?
>
> > >
>
> > >One German expression is "Natursekt" - natural sparkling wine.
>
> >
>
> > Sparkling? Really?
>
>
>
> Yes, but stressed like this it's kind of a translation artifact.
>
> "Sekt" is the compact German term for sparkling wine

Ain't no stress in there, not nowhere. It is, I think, the only way to translate "Sekt" without indulging in regionalisms or fantasies about British womenfolk, and I think this thread is laden with enough fantasies already.

Now I shall take the risk of a regionalism: where I grew up, calling the drink "sparkling wine" was the completely normal thing to do. "Bubbly" was restricted to champagne and things very close to it, whilst "sparkling wine" referred to everything else, including some things that were perhaps just mildly frizzante. Thus, Sekt is a type of sparkling wine, as is champagne but also prosecco/Perlwein.

I can see how the expression "natural sparkling wine" may read as if I am stressing the "sparkling", but actually I am not. There is no comma in there. "Sparkling wine" is effectively a compound noun. If I wanted to actually introduce the German expression as an English euphemism, though, I would probably go for a near equivalent and call it "organic bubbly".

I am grateful that my students called me Professor Redwine and not Professor Perlwein.

[Professor Redwine]

On Thursday, 23 May 2013 13:50:10 UTC+2, Mike Barnes wrote:
> Professor Redwine <jakob...@gmail.com>:

> >One German expression is "Natursekt" - natural sparkling wine.
>
> Sparkling? Really?

Absolutely, when poured correctly. Of course, if you let it stand for too long it goes flat, and it does need to come out of a broad, well ventilated opening if it is going to develop the most glorious froth.

[R H Draney]

Professor Redwine filted:

Are we talking about the wine or the urine?...r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[Mike L]

"The nuisance of the tropics is
The absolute necessity of fizz."

--
Mike.

[Professor Redwine]

Yes!

[Adam Funk]

asstral projection


--
The kid's a hot prospect. He's got a good head for merchandising, an
agent who can take you downtown and one of the best urine samples I've
seen in a long time. [Dead Kennedys t-shirt]

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-05-16, Lewis wrote:

> In message <kn11u2$i7q$1...@dont-email.me>

> BrE pants or AmE pants?


yes


--
There's a statute of limitations with the law, but not with
your wife. [Ray Magliozzi, Car Talk 2011-36]

[Christian Weisgerber]

Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >"Sekt" is the compact German term for sparkling wine, or "bubbles"
> >as the British womenfolk tend to say.[1]
> >[...]
> >
> >[1] I'm not certain that this geographic and sociolinguistic
> > restriction is in fact correct.
>
> I have my doubts too, assuming you mean "bubbly".

ARGGH. Yes, "bubbly". That's why I had trouble finding any
references to it. American dictionaries list it without any
indication that it is specifically British, so I don't know how I
formed that impression. *shrug*

[David Hatunen]

On Fri, 24 May 2013 13:32:44 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

>On 2013-05-16, Dr Nick wrote:
>
>> Reinhold {Rey} Aman <am...@sonic.net> writes:
>>
>>> From:
>>>
>>> <http://www.wave3.com/story/22240730/police-man-drank-beer-smoked-cooked-while-in-grocery>
>>>
>>> "Runyon also allegedly went to bathroom on himself <-----
>>> and got clothes to change into."
>>>
>>> Explaining to our Foreign Friends:
>>>
>>> "To go to bathroom on oneself" = to shit and/or piss one's pants.
>>
>> That is quite remarkable. As well as the absurd euphemism it conjures
>> up the image of some sort of out-of-body experience.
>
>
>asstral projection

Shifting the topic a bit more, see the Kmart advert for big gas
savings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1yir-p68xM

or the one about how to ship your pants

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I03UmJbK0lA

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Yes, "bubbly" is common informal AmE, as well.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |If only some crazy scientist
SF Bay Area (1982-) |somewhere would develop a device
Chicago (1964-1982) |that would allow us to change the
|channel on our televisions......
evan.kir...@gmail.com | --"lazarus"

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[musika]

On 25/05/2013 16:40, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
> na...@mips.inka.de (Christian Weisgerber) writes:
>
>> Mike Barnes <mikeba...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> "Sekt" is the compact German term for sparkling wine, or "bubbles"
>>>> as the British womenfolk tend to say.[1]
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> [1] I'm not certain that this geographic and sociolinguistic
>>>> restriction is in fact correct.
>>>
>>> I have my doubts too, assuming you mean "bubbly".
>>
>> ARGGH. Yes, "bubbly". That's why I had trouble finding any
>> references to it. American dictionaries list it without any
>> indication that it is specifically British, so I don't know how I
>> formed that impression. *shrug*
>
> Yes, "bubbly" is common informal AmE, as well.
>

Known to Arthur Daley as "shampoo"

--
Ray
UK

[R H Draney]

musika filted:

Shampoo for my real friends, and real poo for my sham friends....r

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-05-24, David Hatunen wrote:

> Shifting the topic a bit more, see the Kmart advert for big gas
> savings:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1yir-p68xM
>
> or the one about how to ship your pants
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I03UmJbK0lA

Are those real (unaltered)? I'm surprised there weren't vociferous
complaints in the US.


--
And remember, while you're out there risking your life and limb
through shot and shell, we'll be in be in here thinking what a
sucker you are. [Rufus T. Firefly]

[Vinny Burgoo]

In alt.usage.english, Mike L wrote:
>On Fri, 17 May 2013 19:12:34 +0100, Vinny Burgoo <hlu...@yahoo.co.uk>

[...]

>>Commenters say he most likely whippited it.)
>
>I'm assuming the unsatisfactory aerosol whipped cream. In his
>position, I don't think I could have resisted seeing how much you
>could get out of a can in a single blast, and after that, just seeing
>how deep a pat of foam one could make with a whole shelf of the stuff.
>Maybe something for a bucket list.

I'm having a Spring Clean and, in an attempt to be a responsible
rubbish-putter-outer, yesterday I shot a hole in a
many-years-past-its-use-by-date can of shaving foam. Blue blooming hell!
Everything within five yards was spattered with little emerging
volcanoes of scented blueness, me included. (I suppose the trick would
be to clothe it in loose plastic before shooting it. The trouble with
that is that my air rifle is little more than a toy and sometimes fails
to puncture even naked aerosols.)

I believe you're a baker. Is it true that use-by dates for dry yeast are
among the few you should take seriously? Also, is there any point trying
to germinate ancient culinary poppy seeds?

--
VB

[Mike L]

On Wed, 29 May 2013 19:36:47 +0100, Vinny Burgoo <hlu...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

Aerosol abuse is enormous fun.

On the whole, I'd follow the use-by date for yeast, because the stuff
is so cheap and failure so disappointing. If there's a whole packet at
stake, I'd try fermenting a sugar solution with one envelope: if it
worked well, the rest should be OK. (I don't suppose you've got one of
the old tins of loose dried yeast.)

Yes, I'd have a go with the poppy seed: no promises, but it's famous
for longevity.

--
Mike.

[Vinny Burgoo]

In alt.usage.english, Mike L wrote:
>On Wed, 29 May 2013 19:36:47 +0100, Vinny Burgoo <hlu...@yahoo.co.uk>

[...]

>>I believe you're a baker. Is it true that use-by dates for dry yeast are
>>among the few you should take seriously? Also, is there any point trying
>>to germinate ancient culinary poppy seeds?
>
>Aerosol abuse is enormous fun.
>
>On the whole, I'd follow the use-by date for yeast, because the stuff
>is so cheap and failure so disappointing. If there's a whole packet at
>stake, I'd try fermenting a sugar solution with one envelope: if it
>worked well, the rest should be OK. (I don't suppose you've got one of
>the old tins of loose dried yeast.)
>
>Yes, I'd have a go with the poppy seed: no promises, but it's famous
>for longevity.

Ta.

--
VB

[Snidely]

on 5/30/2013, Vinny Burgoo supposed :

It isn't one of those, spices, whose seeds have to be dead before
delivery?

I know, not all poppies have the right syrup, but then it may be that
not all poppies have suitable seeds for baking, either.

And make sure to skip the decorated bagels before your pre-employment
drug test. (I don't know if Vinny has to worry about that.)

/dps

--
Ieri, oggi, domani

[Mike L]

On Thu, 30 May 2013 22:03:17 -0700, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Well, yes, AFAIK the seed does come from opium poppies, but probably a
strain bred for seed production rather than narco juice. Good point,
though, and I don't know the answer. I don't know much about dopery,
though I did once grow some cannabis out of sheer independence of
spirit.

--
Mike.

[Robin Bignall]

If you had kept it up and become a drug lord you could have bought the
whole of Coventry rather than a small piece of it.
--
Robin Bignall
Herts, England (BrE)

[Robert Bannister]

I can only buy white poppy seed (for thickening curries or cakes) in
powdered form, and it used to be illegal. The so-called black poppyseed
(looks blue to me) comes in seed form and ought to be viable.


--
Robert Bannister

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Lewis <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> writes:

> In message <j05iq8d0pchcb6is8...@4ax.com>

> Mike L <n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 May 2013 22:03:17 -0700, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>
>>>on 5/30/2013, Vinny Burgoo supposed :
>>>> In alt.usage.english, Mike L wrote:
>>>>>On Wed, 29 May 2013 19:36:47 +0100, Vinny Burgoo <hlu...@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>

>>>>>Yes, I'd have a go with the poppy seed: no promises, but it's famous
>>>>>for longevity.
>>>>
>>>> Ta.
>>>
>>>It isn't one of those, spices, whose seeds have to be dead before
>>>delivery?
>>>
>>>I know, not all poppies have the right syrup, but then it may be
>>>that not all poppies have suitable seeds for baking, either.
>>>
>>>And make sure to skip the decorated bagels before your
>>>pre-employment drug test. (I don't know if Vinny has to worry
>>>about that.)
>>>
>> Well, yes, AFAIK the seed does come from opium poppies, but
>> probably a strain bred for seed production rather than narco
>> juice. Good point, though, and I don't know the answer. I don't
>> know much about dopery, though I did once grow some cannabis out of
>> sheer independence of spirit.
>

> Poppy seeds are well-known to cause false positives in drug tests for
> opiates. I believe the mythbusters confirmed this,

Yeah, that was a good one. They went into the test fully expecting it
to turn into trying to figure out how ludicrously much poppy-seeded
food you'd actually need to eat to get a false positive, both got one
on the first try, and, IIRC, wound up determining how long it takes
before you're clean again.

Here we are (no, I don't know why the video is mirror image)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rYRxRHTc_uc#t=55s

Adam, eating poppy-seed cake, got a false positive immediately (a half
hour after starting to eat) and Jamie, eating poppy-seed bagels, got a
false positive after two hours. They were both testing positive eight
hours later, and it wasn't clear which way their tests the next
morning should be interpreted.

> and there's been more than one lawsuit over it.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |A handgun is like a Lawyer. You
SF Bay Area (1982-) |don't want it lying around where
Chicago (1964-1982) |the children might be exposed to
|it, but when you need one, you need
evan.kir...@gmail.com |it RIGHT NOW, and nothing else will
|do.
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | Bill McNutt

[Nathan Sanders]

In article <61xxx1...@gmail.com>,

Evan Kirshenbaum <evan.kir...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Here we are (no, I don't know why the video is mirror image)
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rYRxRHTc_uc#t=55s

My understanding is that Youtube uses automated detection of
copyrighted videos (perhaps with digital watermarks, I'm not sure),
and some people believe that by reversing the image, it will defeat
this process (obviously, it wouldn't defeat a human, but it's
impractical to have human detectors watching every video that gets
posted).

I don't know whether such reversal actually defeats automated
detection, but it's certainly a widespread belief that it does.

Nathan

--
Department of Linguistics
Swarthmore College
http://sanders.phonologist.org/

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-06-01, Nathan Sanders wrote:

> In article <61xxx1...@gmail.com>,
> Evan Kirshenbaum <evan.kir...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Here we are (no, I don't know why the video is mirror image)
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rYRxRHTc_uc#t=55s
>
> My understanding is that Youtube uses automated detection of
> copyrighted videos (perhaps with digital watermarks, I'm not sure),
> and some people believe that by reversing the image, it will defeat
> this process (obviously, it wouldn't defeat a human, but it's
> impractical to have human detectors watching every video that gets
> posted).
>
> I don't know whether such reversal actually defeats automated
> detection, but it's certainly a widespread belief that it does.

Maybe Mythbusters could test that out?


--
A man can't just sit around.
--- Larry Walters

[Mike L]

The way things are at present, that would have been a very, er,
long-term investment. Poor old Cov: I like the people.

--
Mike.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Sat, 01 Jun 2013 21:14:05 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

The Mythbusters like to ramp up their tests to the point of explosion or
something similarly spectacular.

I'm not sure how they could do that with a test of defeating or not
defeating copyright protection of videos.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[R H Draney]

Adam Funk filted:

Within the last week I quietly uploaded a segment from a sketch-comedy TV show
of the early 1970s, with the intent of presenting it at next Tuesday's Music SIG
meeting...without promoting the presence of the clip in any way, there's already
a flag on it about "third-party content", addressing not the TV show but the
song performed therein...(it's not a digital match of the hit record of the same
song either, because the song was performed fresh by the actors on the show, and
the flag identifies the vocal performance with an instrumental version of the
song)....

I don't know what's going on out there, but I also discovered just recently that
all but the newest music videos by Jolin Tsai have been taken down...apparently
her record company would like fans to forget that she was ever anything but the
sex-symbol diva she now presents herself as....r

[Vinny Burgoo]

In alt.usage.english, Mike L wrote:
>On Thu, 30 May 2013 22:03:17 -0700, Snidely <snide...@gmail.com>

>>> In alt.usage.english, Mike L wrote:
>>>>On Wed, 29 May 2013 19:36:47 +0100, Vinny Burgoo <hlu...@yahoo.co.uk>

>>>>>Also, is there any point trying to germinate ancient culinary poppy
>>>>>seeds?

[...]

>>>>Yes, I'd have a go with the poppy seed: no promises, but it's famous
>>>>for longevity.

>>It isn't one of those, spices, whose seeds have to be dead before
>>delivery?

It seems not. I sowed some in a test pot and about half of them are
already galloping skywards. I bought them about ten years ago and they
smell too musty to use in baking.

The equally ancient culinary sesame seeds I sowed at the same time have
got nowhere. Pre-toasted, presumably. Paff!

--
VB

[Oliver Cromm]

* Peter Duncanson [BrE]:

They would have to wait until sending out drones becomes standard
practice in copyright protection. Can't be that far away.

--
Strategy: A long-range plan whose merit cannot be evaluated
until sometime after those creating it have left the organization.

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-06-10, Oliver Cromm wrote:

> * Peter Duncanson [BrE]:

>> The Mythbusters like to ramp up their tests to the point of explosion or
>> something similarly spectacular.
>>
>> I'm not sure how they could do that with a test of defeating or not
>> defeating copyright protection of videos.
>
> They would have to wait until sending out drones becomes standard
> practice in copyright protection. Can't be that far away.

Of course. Copyright infringement is almost as bad as terrorism,
which is in turn much worse that motor traffic, for reasons that are
difficult for normal people to understand despite the fact that the
latter has a death rate literally orders of magnitude higher than the
T-word.


--
Nam Sibbyllam quidem Cumis ego ipse oculis meis vidi in ampulla
pendere, et cum illi pueri dicerent: beable beable beable; respondebat
illa: doidy doidy doidy. [plorkwort]

[J. J. Lodder]

Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

> On 2013-06-10, Oliver Cromm wrote:
>
> > * Peter Duncanson [BrE]:
>
> >> The Mythbusters like to ramp up their tests to the point of explosion or
> >> something similarly spectacular.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure how they could do that with a test of defeating or not
> >> defeating copyright protection of videos.
> >
> > They would have to wait until sending out drones becomes standard
> > practice in copyright protection. Can't be that far away.
>
>
> Of course. Copyright infringement is almost as bad as terrorism,
> which is in turn much worse that motor traffic, for reasons that are
> difficult for normal people to understand despite the fact that the
> latter has a death rate literally orders of magnitude higher than the
> T-word.

Pirates are smarter than Americans.
They have gone underground with their data centre,
which is housed in a former NATO bunker.

A mere drone won't harm them,

Jan

[Paul Wolff]

In message <hskh8ax...@news.ducksburg.com>, Adam Funk
<a24...@ducksburg.com> writes

>On 2013-06-10, Oliver Cromm wrote:
>
>> * Peter Duncanson [BrE]:
>
>>> The Mythbusters like to ramp up their tests to the point of explosion or
>>> something similarly spectacular.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how they could do that with a test of defeating or not
>>> defeating copyright protection of videos.
>>
>> They would have to wait until sending out drones becomes standard
>> practice in copyright protection. Can't be that far away.
>
>
>Of course. Copyright infringement is almost as bad as terrorism,
>which is in turn much worse that motor traffic, for reasons that are
>difficult for normal people to understand despite the fact that the
>latter has a death rate literally orders of magnitude higher than the
>T-word.

The wrong newsgroup, really, but I've given up on uk.legal, and vaguely
ŕ propos here: there's a Bill currently before Parliament (Intellectual
Property Bill, in their Lordships' Hice, second reading coming up) which
proposes the criminal offence of copying a registered design (clause 13
if anyone's interested). The maximum penalty will only be ten years in
chokey plus a fine. I heard vigorous argument in favour last Friday,
from some commercial interests ("ACID", or "AŠID"), though also voices
against (inc. mine).

--
Paul

[Oliver Cromm]

* Adam Funk:

> On 2013-06-10, Oliver Cromm wrote:
>
>> * Peter Duncanson [BrE]:
>
>>> The Mythbusters like to ramp up their tests to the point of explosion or
>>> something similarly spectacular.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how they could do that with a test of defeating or not
>>> defeating copyright protection of videos.
>>
>> They would have to wait until sending out drones becomes standard
>> practice in copyright protection. Can't be that far away.
>
> Of course. Copyright infringement is almost as bad as terrorism,
> which is in turn much worse that motor traffic, for reasons that are
> difficult for normal people to understand despite the fact that the
> latter has a death rate literally orders of magnitude higher than the
> T-word.

Do you mean "literally" in the traditional sense or the modern
one, i.e. "not literally"? I'm asking because you clearly use
"normal people" in a non-traditional sense, roughly: "people who
think like I think people should think". Traditional "normal
people", i.e. "people who think like people who don't think", are
afraid of terrorists and plain crashes, but not of driving a car.

My epiphany about risk assessment was indeed exactly this
comparison, which I heard on the radio: many Germans hesitate to
vacation in Northern Ireland - this was in the 80s -, but
actually, the risk of being harmed by terrorists there is
outweighed several times by the reduced risk of being harmed in a
traffic accident. Just by the difference between the two
countries!

Sig was chosen very aptly by the random generator.

--
Are you sure your sanity chip is fully screwed in?
-- Kryten to Rimmer (Red Dwarf)

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 20:09:37 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

>On 2013-06-10, Oliver Cromm wrote:
>
>> * Peter Duncanson [BrE]:
>
>>> The Mythbusters like to ramp up their tests to the point of explosion or
>>> something similarly spectacular.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure how they could do that with a test of defeating or not
>>> defeating copyright protection of videos.
>>
>> They would have to wait until sending out drones becomes standard
>> practice in copyright protection. Can't be that far away.
>
>
>Of course. Copyright infringement is almost as bad as terrorism,
>which is in turn much worse that motor traffic, for reasons that are
>difficult for normal people to understand despite the fact that the
>latter has a death rate literally orders of magnitude higher than the
>T-word.

_The Copyright Drone Wars of 2013_

1. A claims that B is flying drones that exploit A's copyrighted designs
and threatens legal action.

2. B says "Nonsense!".

3. A's drones meet B's drones in mortal combat with A trying to destroy
all B's drones and B responding by attempting to destroy all A's drones

4. This goes on for some time until one side cheats by attacking the
other side's control centres.

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-06-10, Oliver Cromm wrote:

> * Adam Funk:
>> On 2013-06-10, Oliver Cromm wrote:

>>> They would have to wait until sending out drones becomes standard
>>> practice in copyright protection. Can't be that far away.
>>
>> Of course. Copyright infringement is almost as bad as terrorism,
>> which is in turn much worse that motor traffic, for reasons that are
>> difficult for normal people to understand despite the fact that the
>> latter has a death rate literally orders of magnitude higher than the
>> T-word.
>
> Do you mean "literally" in the traditional sense or the modern
> one, i.e. "not literally"? I'm asking because you clearly use
> "normal people" in a non-traditional sense, roughly: "people who
> think like I think people should think". Traditional "normal
> people", i.e. "people who think like people who don't think", are
> afraid of terrorists and plain crashes, but not of driving a car.

Well, what I meant was that our political & economic masters tell us
to worry about copyright infringment & terrorism, even though a fairly
easy analysis of the numbers will indicate that road traffic is much
worse. About 3000 people in the USA have been killed by terrorism in
the past 12 years, whereas it made the national news in 2010 that
traffic deaths had dropped to their lowest annual level in the past 60
years: 33,808 deaths in 2009 alone. So even using that lowest traffic
figure, we can calculate that over the past 12 years in the USA road
traffic has been at least 135 times deadlier than terrorism. That is
literally just over 2 orders of magnitude.

> My epiphany about risk assessment was indeed exactly this
> comparison, which I heard on the radio: many Germans hesitate to
> vacation in Northern Ireland - this was in the 80s -, but
> actually, the risk of being harmed by terrorists there is
> outweighed several times by the reduced risk of being harmed in a
> traffic accident. Just by the difference between the two
> countries!

I'm surprised --- I thought Germany had a relatively good road safety
record.


--
A lot of people never use their intiative because no-one
told them to. --- Banksy

[Leslie Danks]

Wikipedia [1] offers the following figures for traffic-related death rates
(I just selected a few countries from the list). The figures are for Road
fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants per year, Road fatalities per 100,000
motor vehicles. Road fatalities per 1 billion vehicle-km and Total
fatalities latest year. Cautious interpretation is called for since not all
the data was collected for the same year. I would say that the figures in
the third column are the best indication of how safely people comport
themselves in traffic.

Australia: 5.71 8 5.8 1,291
Austria: 8.2 12 8.9 n/a
Germany: 4.5 7.2 7.2 3,657
UK: 3.59 7 5.7 2,222
USA: 12.3 15 8.5 33,808

United Arab Emirates:
37.1 118.5 310 n/a

[1]
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate>

<http://tinyurl.com/66aawy>

--
Les (BrE)
I am a conceptual thinker. Please don't bother me with facts.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 13:03:51 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

It does.

According to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

Germany has 4.5 road fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants per year.

According to a police report the figure for Northern Ireland there were
48 road fatalities during 2012. That is in a population of about
1,800,000.

That makes the rate 2.66.

http://www.psni.police.uk/psni_2012_rtc_fatality_report_1.pdf

The UK overall rate is 3.59.

Sweden: 2.9
Canada: 9.2
USA: 12.3
Mexico: 20.7

Egypt is a popular holiday destination for Europeans even though its
rate is 42.0.

[Nick Spalding]

Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote, in
<ga8er8tereuvv6mfd...@4ax.com>
on Tue, 11 Jun 2013 14:22:39 +0100:

Not too many of them drive there I think.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 15:11:59 +0100, Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie>
wrote:

Pedestrian deaths will be included in the figures, as will deaths of
passengers.

Just a few high profile examples -

6 Mexican tourists killed in Egypt bus accident (2013):
http://news.yahoo.com/6-mexican-tourists-killed-egypt-bus-accident-144532427.html

Bus crash in Hurghada, Egypt, kills Hungarian tourists (2011):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15614512

Eleven Hungarian tourists have been killed after their bus
overturned in the Egyptian Red Sea resort of Hurghada, officials
say.

Eight US tourists killed in Egyptian bus crash (2010):
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8225736/Eight-US-tourists-killed-in-Egyptian-bus-crash.html

Hong Kong in shock after Egypt bus crash but tours continue (2009):
http://www.travelweeklyweb.com/hk-in-shock-after-egypt-bus-crash-but-tours-continue/15651

As Hong Kong comes to terms with the bus crash in Egypt which killed
14 tourists, tour operators reportedly said Tuesday's fatal bus
crash won’t force them to cancel or change itineraries. According to
South China Morning Post, there are more than 1,500 Hong Kong
tourists in Egypt now. The tour manageress of Goldjoy Travel said
they had more than 900 people in 30 groups in Egypt, but none had
been affected. "It is just an isolated incident. Traffic accidents
can happen to any country and any tours," she was quoted saying.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

On 2013-06-11 00:32:49 +0200, Oliver Cromm
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> said:

[ ... ]

>
> My epiphany about risk assessment was indeed exactly this
> comparison, which I heard on the radio: many Germans hesitate to
> vacation in Northern Ireland - this was in the 80s -, but
> actually, the risk of being harmed by terrorists there is
> outweighed several times by the reduced risk of being harmed in a
> traffic accident. Just by the difference between the two
> countries!

I'm not sure if this is still true, now that Northern Ireland is calmer
than it was a few decades ago, but another advantage of Belfast used to
be (1970s) that the danger of dying by suicide was the lowest of any
major city in the UK.


--
athel

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Things have changed. One aspect of "normalisation" following the end of
the terrorist campaigns has been the "normalisation" of suicide rates.

I've just found this news report from two years ago. It includes a
paragraph that says something that I suggested to some friends here 15
to 20 years ago. They agreed that my suggestion made sense and matched
their personal experience. The comments marked "->" are the same as I
had speculated "way back when".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/mar/16/suicide-rates-northern-ireland

16 March 2011
....
Suicide rates have been rising markedly in Northern Ireland over the
past decade. According to the Public Health Agency (PHA), after a
period of relatively static figures in the latter half of the last
century, between 1999 and 2008 rates of suicide in Northern Ireland
increased by 64%. Most of the rise was attributable to young men in
the 15 to 34 age group. A large proportion was concentrated in
disadvantaged areas and, in particular, north and west Belfast.
....
Figures for 2010 are as yet unavailable but, according to data
collated by the PHA, the number of deaths registered as suicides
last year looks set to exceed the 260 identified in 2009.
....
Theories being mooted within Northern Ireland include the long-term
impact of entrenched deprivation in some communities when coupled
with issues of identity in a "post-conflict" society and the legacy
of the Troubles for some of the younger generation of men and boys.

Stephen Platt, Samaritans' trustee and professor of health policy
research at the University of Edinburgh, says: "The suicide rate in
Northern Ireland appears to have increased after the end of the
period known as the Troubles. Previous studies have shown that
-> suicides decrease during periods of war because people feel a sense
-> of integration in their communities while uniting against an
-> adversary. When war ends, this feeling falls away to the detriment
-> of mental health.

[Mike L]

On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 18:32:49 -0400, Oliver Cromm
<lispa...@crommatograph.info> wrote:
[...]

>
>My epiphany about risk assessment was indeed exactly this
>comparison, which I heard on the radio: many Germans hesitate to
>vacation in Northern Ireland - this was in the 80s -, but
>actually, the risk of being harmed by terrorists there is
>outweighed several times by the reduced risk of being harmed in a
>traffic accident. Just by the difference between the two
>countries!

And in any case they'd have been more likely to perish in a motor
accident than be murdered even in Northern Ireland.
>
[...]
--
Mike.

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

That was true in NI except for one year in the early-1970s when the
number of deaths from terrorist related incidents exceeded the number of
road traffic deaths.

Something I noticed was that as the number of terrorist-related deaths
went up so did the number of road traffic deaths. I've not seen this
mentioned anywhere. I discussed it with some co-workers and the most
convincing theory we could come up with was that the general atmosphere
of nervousness about terrorism meant that drivers tried to keep the time
taken for their journeys as short as possible. This might have been, at
least for some of the people, some of the time, subconscious.

[Rich Ulrich]

On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 15:11:59 +0100, Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie>
wrote:

When you look at the column in the Wikip article that reports
fatalities per billion vehicle-km, not every country is listed.
But the rates are more similar for these countries, and more
what you would expect for some others,
Sweden: 5.1, Canada: 8.2, USA: 8.5.

Mentioned earlier: Germany: 7.2, I don't see Northern Ireland,
but Republic of Ireland has low rates of 3.5 per 10,000 inhabitants
and 6.44 per billion vehicle-km.

>>
>> Egypt is a popular holiday destination for Europeans even though its
>> rate is 42.0.

Egypt doesn't have a listing per distance. They are reported
with 188 deaths per 100,000 motor vehicles, which is kind of
in the middle. That is the column with the widest range of rates.

The countries with many cars and good roads do 20 or so times
better than that; the countries that are worst off do 20 or
so times worse.

>
>Not too many of them drive there I think.

--

Rich Ulrich

[Peter Brooks]

On Jun 12, 1:11 am, Rich Ulrich <rich.ulr...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Jun 2013 15:11:59 +0100, Nick Spalding <spald...@iol.ie>

> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote, in

> ><ga8er8tereuvv6mfd7h472kte4ma64h...@4ax.com>

> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_dea...

It's odd that, given that alcohol is so often blamed for traffic
fatalities, there are so many accidents in countries where alcohol is
banned or not used much.

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-06-12, Peter Brooks wrote:

> On Jun 12, 1:11 am, Rich Ulrich <rich.ulr...@comcast.net> wrote:

[road traffic death statistics]

>> Egypt doesn't have a listing per distance.  They are reported
>> with 188 deaths per 100,000 motor vehicles, which is kind of
>> in the middle.  That is the column with the widest range of rates.
>>
>> The countries with many cars and good roads do 20 or so times
>> better than that; the countries that are worst off do 20 or
>> so times worse.
>>
> It's odd that, given that alcohol is so often blamed for traffic
> fatalities, there are so many accidents in countries where alcohol is
> banned or not used much.

If you ban it, people have to drink it & transport it in a hurry.
From what I've seen in films, Prohibition caused a lot of dangerous
driving in the USA. ;-)


--
No sport is less organized than Calvinball!

[Mike L]

On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 11:50:03 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>
wrote:

Alcohol's not banned in Egypt, but abstainers who jump off the wagon
every so often are likely to be worse affected by the stuff than
regular moderate drinkers. Worse, perhaps, is the ease with which you
can illicitly get a driving licence there.

--
Mike.

[Walter P. Zähl]

But that in turn was mainly caused by Tommy guns, not by alcohol directly.
;-)

/Walter

[Robert Bannister]

Because they're not used to drinking?

--
Robert Bannister

[Peter Brooks]

I agree that's a possibility, but I think that the number of accidents
caused by tranquillisers is huge, given how widely they're
overprescribed almost everywhere.

Of course, the combination of tranquillisers with alcohol is even more
dangerous - particularly when compounded by the use of a portable
telephone.

[Adam Funk]

Well, the guns as well as the driving tactics!

(AIUI stock-car racing originated in attempts to outrun the
revenooers.)


--
I take no pleasure in being Right in my dark predictions about the
fate of our miiltary intervention in the heart of the Muslim world. It
is immensely depressing to me. Nobody likes to be betting against the
Home team, no matter how hopeless they are. --- Hunter S Thompson

[Vinny Burgoo]

In alt.usage.english, Mike L wrote:

>On Wed, 12 Jun 2013 11:50:03 +0100, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com>

And worser is (or perhaps was) the belief that you can preserve your
headlight bulbs by not using them when they're needed, viz at night.

--
VB

[Cheryl]

I once knew a young man who believed it was better to drive his ATV
along the highway at night without lights, because that way it would be
harder for the police to catch him. It is illegal to drive an ATV on a
public highway here.

So far as I know, he survived.

--
Cheryl

[Robert Bannister]

I have met a number of people who believe it is safer to drive with no
lights because it doesn't dazzle the kangaroos who therefore have a
better chance of getting out of your way.

--
Robert Bannister

[fabzorba]

On Friday, 17 May 2013 03:35:57 UTC+10, Walter P. Zähl wrote:
> Eric Walker <em...@owlcroft.com> wrote: > On Wed, 15 May 2013 17:25:00 -0400, Joe Fineman wrote: > > [...] > >> I have heard this absurdity in the U.S. from time to time -- usually in >> the form "went to the bathroom in his pants" (which taken literally >> would describe a very usual occurrence). > > Dunno. A vision of someone going off to the bathroom not in pants seems, > um, striking. > Wouldn't it rather be streaking? /Walter

Well, in these contexts, there may well be streaks behind our desperate friend. It might be a river, or perhaps it is steaming as well as flowing...

Speaking of which, is there a word which explicitly denotes the feeling of needing to go to the toilet? A term analogous to hungry, thirsty, sleepy, or randy? If not in English, do other languages have one?

[Walter P. Zähl]

Interesting question. and so fitting at the moment. because I'm having that
feeling day and night at the moment as part of chemotherapy (ever heard of
"Lasix"? Reeeal fun.).
Still, I can't think of a good term for it.

Guess it's commonly described as the urgency to have to do something, so
similar to expressing hunger as feeling the need to eat.

The medical term in German would be "Harndrang verspüren" - literally,
"perceive urine pressure".

Usually, my "colleague" in the bed next to me and I just say "I must." And
then we go ;-)

/Walter

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On 17 Jun 2013 18:00:16 GMT, Walter P. Z�hl <spams...@zaehl.de> wrote:

>fabzorba <myles....@gmail.com> wrote:

>> On Friday, 17 May 2013 03:35:57 UTC+10, Walter P. Z�hl wrote:
>>> Eric Walker <em...@owlcroft.com> wrote: > On Wed, 15 May 2013 17:25:00
>>> -0400, Joe Fineman wrote: > > [...] > >> I have heard this absurdity in
>>> the U.S. from time to time -- usually in >> the form "went to the
>>> bathroom in his pants" (which taken literally >> would describe a very
>>> usual occurrence). > > Dunno. A vision of someone going off to the
>>> bathroom not in pants seems, > um, striking. > Wouldn't it rather be streaking? /Walter
>>
>> Well, in these contexts, there may well be streaks behind our desperate
>> friend. It might be a river, or perhaps it is steaming as well as flowing...
>>
>> Speaking of which, is there a word which explicitly denotes the feeling
>> of needing to go to the toilet? A term analogous to hungry, thirsty,
>> sleepy, or randy? If not in English, do other languages have one?
>
>Interesting question. and so fitting at the moment. because I'm having that
>feeling day and night at the moment as part of chemotherapy (ever heard of
>"Lasix"? Reeeal fun.).

Lasix is a brand name. It is also known as Frumex.

I know it under the name furosemide (it used to be frusemide). I take
one tablet every day like many other people with hypertension.

>Still, I can't think of a good term for it.
>
>Guess it's commonly described as the urgency to have to do something, so
>similar to expressing hunger as feeling the need to eat.
>

>The medical term in German would be "Harndrang versp�ren" - literally,

>"perceive urine pressure".
>
>Usually, my "colleague" in the bed next to me and I just say "I must." And
>then we go ;-)
>
>/Walter

[Leslie Danks]

Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:

> On 17 Jun 2013 18:00:16 GMT, Walter P. Zähl <spams...@zaehl.de> wrote:
>
>>fabzorba <myles....@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> On Friday, 17 May 2013 03:35:57 UTC+10, Walter P. Zähl wrote:
>>>> Eric Walker <em...@owlcroft.com> wrote: > On Wed, 15 May 2013 17:25:00
>>>> -0400, Joe Fineman wrote: > > [...] > >> I have heard this absurdity in
>>>> the U.S. from time to time -- usually in >> the form "went to the
>>>> bathroom in his pants" (which taken literally >> would describe a very
>>>> usual occurrence). > > Dunno. A vision of someone going off to the
>>>> bathroom not in pants seems, > um, striking. > Wouldn't it rather be
>>>> streaking? /Walter
>>>
>>> Well, in these contexts, there may well be streaks behind our desperate
>>> friend. It might be a river, or perhaps it is steaming as well as
>>> flowing...
>>>
>>> Speaking of which, is there a word which explicitly denotes the feeling
>>> of needing to go to the toilet? A term analogous to hungry, thirsty,
>>> sleepy, or randy? If not in English, do other languages have one?
>>
>>Interesting question. and so fitting at the moment. because I'm having
>>that feeling day and night at the moment as part of chemotherapy (ever
>>heard of "Lasix"? Reeeal fun.).
>
> Lasix is a brand name. It is also known as Frumex.
>
> I know it under the name furosemide (it used to be frusemide). I take
> one tablet every day like many other people with hypertension.
>
>>Still, I can't think of a good term for it.

"I'm bursting" or "I'm busting for a pee" are expressions I'm familiar with.

>>Guess it's commonly described as the urgency to have to do something, so
>>similar to expressing hunger as feeling the need to eat.
>>

>>The medical term in German would be "Harndrang verspüren" - literally,

>>"perceive urine pressure".
>>
>>Usually, my "colleague" in the bed next to me and I just say "I must." And
>>then we go ;-)
>>
>>/Walter
>

--

[Robert Bannister]

On 17/06/13 11:47 AM, fabzorba wrote:

Stuhldrang?

--
Robert Bannister

[Walter P. Zähl]

Robert Bannister <rob...@clubtelco.com> wrote:
> On 17/06/13 11:47 AM, fabzorba wrote:

>> On Friday, 17 May 2013 03:35:57 UTC+10, Walter P. Zähl wrote:
>>> Eric Walker <em...@owlcroft.com> wrote: > On Wed, 15 May 2013 17:25:00
>>> -0400, Joe Fineman wrote: > > [...] > >> I have heard this absurdity in
>>> the U.S. from time to time -- usually in >> the form "went to the
>>> bathroom in his pants" (which taken literally >> would describe a very
>>> usual occurrence). > > Dunno. A vision of someone going off to the
>>> bathroom not in pants seems, > um, striking. > Wouldn't it rather be streaking? /Walter
>>
>> Well, in these contexts, there may well be streaks behind our desperate
>> friend. It might be a river, or perhaps it is steaming as well as flowing...
>>
>> Speaking of which, is there a word which explicitly denotes the feeling
>> of needing to go to the toilet? A term analogous to hungry, thirsty,
>> sleepy, or randy? If not in English, do other languages have one?
>>
>
> Stuhldrang?

Understandable, but less common than Harndrang (and, of course, meaning
"the other number" ;-)

/Walter

[fabzorba]

On Jun 18, 4:00 am, Walter P. Zähl <spamsin...@zaehl.de> wrote:

So sorry to hear that. I will remember you in my prayers at nite. God
bless.

[Peter Moylan]

On 17/06/13 13:47, fabzorba wrote:

The medical term in these parts is "urge". I don't like it, though,
because it could mean so many other things.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

[Walter P. Zähl]

Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 17/06/13 13:47, fabzorba wrote:

>> On Friday, 17 May 2013 03:35:57 UTC+10, Walter P. Zähl wrote:
>>> Eric Walker <em...@owlcroft.com> wrote: > On Wed, 15 May 2013 17:25:00
>>> -0400, Joe Fineman wrote: > > [...] > >> I have heard this absurdity in
>>> the U.S. from time to time -- usually in >> the form "went to the
>>> bathroom in his pants" (which taken literally >> would describe a very
>>> usual occurrence). > > Dunno. A vision of someone going off to the
>>> bathroom not in pants seems, > um, striking. > Wouldn't it rather be streaking? /Walter
>>
>> Well, in these contexts, there may well be streaks behind our desperate
>> friend. It might be a river, or perhaps it is steaming as well as flowing...
>>
>> Speaking of which, is there a word which explicitly denotes the feeling
>> of needing to go to the toilet? A term analogous to hungry, thirsty,
>> sleepy, or randy? If not in English, do other languages have one?
>
> The medical term in these parts is "urge". I don't like it, though,
> because it could mean so many other things.

I haven't come very far in a book I'm just reading about the history of
swearwords [1] (I'm still mainly in the Latin and medieval era), but guess
a reason for this obvious lack of a fitting word could be that it is
inappropriate to describe the feeling to break a taboo.

/Walter

[1] /Holy Shit: a brief history of swearing/ by Melissa Mohr - quite
entertaining, if she'd just get over the urge to apologize for using those
dirty words over and over again. ;-)

[Peter Brooks]

On Jun 18, 4:38 am, Peter Moylan <pe...@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 17/06/13 13:47, fabzorba wrote:
>

> > On Friday, 17 May 2013 03:35:57 UTC+10, Walter P. Zähl wrote:
> >> Eric Walker <em...@owlcroft.com> wrote: > On Wed, 15 May 2013 17:25:00 -0400, Joe Fineman wrote: > > [...] > >> I have heard this absurdity in the U.S. from time to time -- usually in >> the form "went to the bathroom in his pants" (which taken literally >> would describe a very usual occurrence). > > Dunno. A vision of someone going off to the bathroom not in pants seems, > um, striking. > Wouldn't it rather be streaking? /Walter
>
> > Well, in these contexts, there may well be streaks behind our desperate friend. It might be a river, or perhaps it is steaming as well as flowing...
>
> > Speaking of which, is there a word which explicitly denotes the feeling of needing to go to the toilet? A term analogous to hungry, thirsty, sleepy, or randy? If not in English, do other languages have one?
>
> The medical term in these parts is "urge". I don't like it, though,
> because it could mean so many other things.
>

I've heard it used as 'urgency'. As in 'Do you feel great urgency at
any time?' - which sounds like nonsense unless, as is usually the
case, it occurs in the context of a consultation which is discussing
bowels or continency. I'm pleased to say that I've not personally, so
far, been involved in such a discussion.

The need, of course, isn't to go anywhere in particular, but to
urinate or defæcate.

[James Hogg]

The Ulster word is "hefted (for a pish)".

--
James

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

On Tue, 18 Jun 2013 11:23:14 +0200, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
wrote:

Yes. We discussed that 8 months ago.
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!msg/alt.usage.english/Z768Gb4e5iQ/Refj4oOLliYJ

[CDB]

On 18/06/2013 5:23 AM, James Hogg wrote:
> fabzorba wrote:

[what the bathroom was doing in my pants, I don't know]

>> Speaking of which, is there a word which explicitly denotes the
>> feeling of needing to go to the toilet? A term analogous to hungry,
>> thirsty, sleepy, or randy? If not in English, do other languages have
>> one?

> The Ulster word is "hefted (for a pish)".

Interesting word. We once, some of us, had a small obsession with the
concept of "hefted" sheep, which return if they can to their place of
origin. Homing sheep, like.

OneLook offers various observations on the word.

From Wikipedia:

"Hefting (or heafing) � the instinct in some breeds of keeping to a
certain heft (a small local area) throughout their lives. Allows
different farmers in an extensive landscape such as moorland to graze
different areas without the need for fences, each ewe remaining on her
particular area. Lambs usually learn their heft from their mothers."

From Wiktionary:

(for 'heft') "(Northern England) A piece of mountain pasture to which a
farm animal has become hefted."

"(West of Ireland) Poor condition in sheep caused by mineral deficiency"

(etymologically) "from the Old Norse /hef�/, tradition" (definition from
Icelandic).

But the Online Etymological Dictionary says, of heft (n.):

"mid-15c., "weight, heaviness, quality of weight," from heave on analogy
of thieve/theft, weave/weft, etc.; also influenced by heft, obsolete
past participle of heave.

From Webster's, 1828 version:

"a. Heaved; expressing agitation."

From The Free Dictionary:

(for 'heft') "Irish name for ovine illthrift (failure to grow, increase
in weight or maintain weight in the presence of apparently adequate food
supplies and in the absence of recognizable disease)".

So do hefted sheep come back by tradition, or are they uneasy away from
home? Do they fail to thrive through unease or because their
traditional turf lacks sufficient minerals? And did the Old Norse think
of tradition in terms of its weight?

Heaving for a pish, then.

I noticed in passing that Wikipedia (the article was "A Glossary of
sheep husbandry") has "hogg", a young sheep", which may partly explain
one Hogg's ready fit here. Hefted, like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hefted

[CDB]

On 18/06/2013 6:44 AM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com> wrote:

[somebody's system is messing with the previous stuff]

>>> Well, in these contexts, there may well be streaks behind our
>>> desperate friend. It might be a river, or perhaps it is steaming
>>> as well as flowing...

>>> Speaking of which, is there a word which explicitly denotes the
>>> feeling of needing to go to the toilet? A term analogous to
>>> hungry, thirsty, sleepy, or randy? If not in English, do other
>>> languages have one?

>> The Ulster word is "hefted (for a pish)".

> Yes. We discussed that 8 months ago.
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!msg/alt.usage.english/Z768Gb4e5iQ/Refj4oOLliYJ

Forgot that entirely. More grist for the mill.

[James Hogg]

And then I could give you this quotation:

"Never do thou suffer us to be heftit e'ening or morning."

--
James

[Adam Funk]

"I've got the tortoise's head" (from _Viz_ magazine & a former
co-worker of mine).


--
Civilization is a race between catastrophe and education.
[H G Wells]

[Whiskers]

On 2013-06-17, Walter P Zähl <spams...@zaehl.de> wrote:
> fabzorba <myles....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Friday, 17 May 2013 03:35:57 UTC+10, Walter P. Zähl wrote:
>>> Eric Walker <em...@owlcroft.com> wrote: > On Wed, 15 May 2013 17:25:00
>>> -0400, Joe Fineman wrote: > > [...] > >> I have heard this absurdity in
>>> the U.S. from time to time -- usually in >> the form "went to the
>>> bathroom in his pants" (which taken literally >> would describe a very
>>> usual occurrence). > > Dunno. A vision of someone going off to the
>>> bathroom not in pants seems, > um, striking. > Wouldn't it rather be streaking? /Walter
>>
>> Well, in these contexts, there may well be streaks behind our desperate
>> friend. It might be a river, or perhaps it is steaming as well as flowing...
>>
>> Speaking of which, is there a word which explicitly denotes the feeling
>> of needing to go to the toilet? A term analogous to hungry, thirsty,
>> sleepy, or randy? If not in English, do other languages have one?
>
> Interesting question. and so fitting at the moment. because I'm having that
> feeling day and night at the moment as part of chemotherapy (ever heard of
> "Lasix"? Reeeal fun.).

Good Luck!

> Still, I can't think of a good term for it.
>
> Guess it's commonly described as the urgency to have to do something, so
> similar to expressing hunger as feeling the need to eat.
>
> The medical term in German would be "Harndrang verspüren" - literally,
> "perceive urine pressure".
>
> Usually, my "colleague" in the bed next to me and I just say "I must." And
> then we go ;-)
>
> /Walter

I think 'bladder pressure' is the polite term I'd use.

--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

[Christian Weisgerber]

Walter P. Zähl <spams...@zaehl.de> wrote:

> The medical term in German would be "Harndrang verspüren" - literally,
> "perceive urine pressure".
>
> Usually, my "colleague" in the bed next to me and I just say "I must." And
> then we go ;-)

That's just "I have to go". German has this weird idiomatic usage
where if you have a modal auxiliary and a verb of movement, the
latter is frequently elided.

"Morgen muss ich nach Frankfurt."
Tomorrow I must [go] to Frankfurt.

"Diesen Sommer wollen wir nach Italien."
This summer we want [to travel] to Italy.

"Ich muss auf die Toilette."
I must [go] to the toilet.

--
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber na...@mips.inka.de

[Leslie Danks]

Something similar is to be found in a poem by John Masefield:

[quote]
Sea-Fever

I must down to the seas again, to the lonely sea and the sky,
And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by,
And the wheel's kick and the wind's song and the white sail's shaking,
And a grey mist on the sea's face and a grey dawn breaking.
...
[/quote]
<http://www.bartleby.com/103/98.html>

There are also versions with "I must _go_ down to the seas again ..." and I
believe this was discussed here not so long ago. I can't remember what the
outcome of the discussion was, though.

[Mike L]

"Breakin' me neck (for a piss)."

--
Mike.

[Robert Bannister]

On 19/06/13 3:17 AM, Christian Weisgerber wrote:
> Walter P. Zï¿œhl <spams...@zaehl.de> wrote:
>
>> The medical term in German would be "Harndrang verspï¿œren" - literally,

>> "perceive urine pressure".
>>
>> Usually, my "colleague" in the bed next to me and I just say "I must." And
>> then we go ;-)
>
> That's just "I have to go". German has this weird idiomatic usage
> where if you have a modal auxiliary and a verb of movement, the
> latter is frequently elided.
>
> "Morgen muss ich nach Frankfurt."
> Tomorrow I must [go] to Frankfurt.
>
> "Diesen Sommer wollen wir nach Italien."
> This summer we want [to travel] to Italy.
>
> "Ich muss auf die Toilette."
> I must [go] to the toilet.
>

That last is often shortened to just "Ich muss mal" which is more or
less what Walter wrote.

--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

That's pretty good aiming if she's a woman.
--
Robert Bannister

[Robert Bannister]

When I checked "Stuhldrang" with Leo (to make sure I hadn't made it up),
it gave me "rectal tenesmus [med.]" as an English translation.
--
Robert Bannister

[Snidely]

Robert Bannister was thinking very hard :

And here I thought he was saying he didn't get to finish the sentence,
implying that some cleanup was required.

/dps

--
"I am not given to exaggeration, and when I say a thing I mean it"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain

[Adam Funk]

On 2013-06-17, Walter P Zähl wrote:

> Interesting question. and so fitting at the moment. because I'm having that
> feeling day and night at the moment as part of chemotherapy (ever heard of
> "Lasix"? Reeeal fun.).
> Still, I can't think of a good term for it.
>
> Guess it's commonly described as the urgency to have to do something, so
> similar to expressing hunger as feeling the need to eat.
>
> The medical term in German would be "Harndrang verspüren" - literally,
> "perceive urine pressure".
>
> Usually, my "colleague" in the bed next to me and I just say "I must." And
> then we go ;-)

Years ago, I had a German friend who used to need to go quite
frequently when we were out at a bar. He said his friends at home
called him "Durchlauferhitzer".

(Note for non-Germanophones: that means "instantaneous water heater",
but it's funnier in German because it literally means
"through-flow-heater" --- you're supposed to envisage beer flowing in
cold at the top & out warm at the bottom.)


--
...the reason why so many professional artists drink a lot is not
necessarily very much to do with the artistic temperament, etc. It is
simply that they can afford to, because they can normally take a large
part of a day off to deal with the ravages. [Amis _On Drink_]

[Walter P. Zähl]

Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
> On 2013-06-17, Walter P Zähl wrote:
>
>> Interesting question. and so fitting at the moment. because I'm having that
>> feeling day and night at the moment as part of chemotherapy (ever heard of
>> "Lasix"? Reeeal fun.).
>> Still, I can't think of a good term for it.
>>
>> Guess it's commonly described as the urgency to have to do something, so
>> similar to expressing hunger as feeling the need to eat.
>>
>> The medical term in German would be "Harndrang verspüren" - literally,
>> "perceive urine pressure".
>>
>> Usually, my "colleague" in the bed next to me and I just say "I must." And
>> then we go ;-)
>
>
> Years ago, I had a German friend who used to need to go quite
> frequently when we were out at a bar. He said his friends at home
> called him "Durchlauferhitzer".
>
> (Note for non-Germanophones: that means "instantaneous water heater",
> but it's funnier in German because it literally means
> "through-flow-heater" --- you're supposed to envisage beer flowing in
> cold at the top & out warm at the bottom.)
>

Like the "Soldier in White" in Catch-22: every morning and evening the
nurse would exchange (i.e. swap) the top and bottom drip bottles, until one
day, the dripping had stopped, and they exchanged the soldier ...

Another book I should perhaps read again.

/Walter