Beijing
HVS
One hears both versions, and I've never been entirely sure which is
the pukka way of pronouncing it. I recently discovered, though, that
the "right" way[1] is the one that sounds awkward and gauche to my
ear.
[1]By this, I mean the "sort of correct" rather than "truly Chinese"
pronunciation.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
jerry_f...@yahoo.com
> Bay-zhing, or bay-jing...
>
> One hears both versions, and I've never been entirely sure which is
> the pukka way of pronouncing it. I recently discovered, though, that
> the "right" way[1] is the one that sounds awkward and gauche to my
> ear.
>
> [1]By this, I mean the "sort of correct" rather than "truly Chinese"
> pronunciation.
I'd say the best way for English speakers is "j" as in "Jerry".
Pronouncing it as in "bonjour" is based on the idea that foreign all
sounds alike. In fact, if I remember correctly the way Prof. Kao [*]
pronounced Chinese words, there's no reason not to accent the first
syllable and rhyme it with "raging".
[*] Wade-Giles, hence "Gow".
--
Jerry Friedman
HVS
> On Aug 12, 2:41 pm, HVS <use...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
>> Bay-zhing, or bay-jing...
>>
>> One hears both versions, and I've never been entirely sure
>> which is the pukka way of pronouncing it. I recently
>> discovered, though, that the "right" way[1] is the one that
>> sounds awkward and gauche to my ear.
>>
>> [1]By this, I mean the "sort of correct" rather than "truly
>> Chinese" pronunciation.
>
> I'd say the best way for English speakers is "j" as in "Jerry".
> Pronouncing it as in "bonjour" is based on the idea that foreign
> all sounds alike.
Yup; that's what I've recently learned. (That's the one that sounds
mis-pronounced to me at the moment, but I'll get over it.)
> In fact, if I remember correctly the way
> Prof. Kao [*] pronounced Chinese words, there's no reason not to
> accent the first syllable and rhyme it with "raging".
>
> [*] Wade-Giles, hence "Gow".
>
--
mm
wrote:
>Bay-zhing, or bay-jing...
There is also Bay-ping and Pay-king.
They are all Chinese and it depends on whose in charge.
>One hears both versions, and I've never been entirely sure which is
>the pukka way of pronouncing it. I recently discovered, though, that
>the "right" way[1] is the one that sounds awkward and gauche to my
>ear.
>
>[1]By this, I mean the "sort of correct" rather than "truly Chinese"
>pronunciation.
(When the ducks are in charge, it's Peking.)
>
If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)
Irwell
The French TV use Peking on their maps,
actually Pekin, they leave the g off.
CDB
>> Bay-zhing, or bay-jing...
> There is also Bay-ping and Pay-king.
>
> They are all Chinese and it depends on whose in charge.
"Peking" is probably a loose transcription of the Cantonese version.
"Beiping" (or Pei-p'ing if Wade and Giles are in charge) is a
different name, also given to the Northern Capital for a while:
Northern Peace.
[Peking duck charges are not light]
R H Draney
>
>On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 18:22:52 -0400, mm wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:41:18 +0100, HVS <use...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Bay-zhing, or bay-jing...
>>
>> There is also Bay-ping and Pay-king.
>>
>> They are all Chinese and it depends on whose in charge.
>>
>
>actually Pekin, they leave the g off.
Because lord knows when the French write something down, they pronounce all the
letters....r
--
Evelyn Wood just looks at the pictures.
mm
wrote:
Beiping was used during the last 60 years. For a different city from
the current capital?? Or the same??
>[Peking duck charges are not light]
>
CDB
> On Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:22:20 -0400, "CDB" wrote:
>> mm wrote:
>>>> Bay-zhing, or bay-jing...
>>> There is also Bay-ping and Pay-king.
>>> They are all Chinese and it depends on whose in charge.
>> "Peking" is probably a loose transcription of the Cantonese
>> version. "Beiping" (or Pei-p'ing if Wade and Giles are in charge)
>> is a different name, also given to the Northern Capital for a
>> while: Northern Peace.
> Beiping was used during the last 60 years. For a different city
> from the current capital?? Or the same??
I haven't looked this up, but my recollection is that the Nationalist
(Guomindang) government called the capital "Pei-p'ing". It was their
name for the city usually called Beijing: a different name, not just a
different alphabetic representation of the Chinese words for Northern
Capital, like the other variants discussed.
>> [Peking duck charges are not light, bigad]
Don Aitken
wrote:
The point being that it needed a different name because it wasn't the
capital anymore - that was at Nanking. The dates are, I think, 1927 to
1949.
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the From: address is not read.
To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com"
Cece
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 09:41:32 -0400, "CDB" <bellema...@sympatico.ca>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Used to be the city was called Peking when it was being the capital,
as the word means "northern capital"; if the government was not in
residence, it was called Peiping ("northern peace"). The southern
capital was Nanking; I don't remember its other name, but it was very
different. Both have had other names too, and other alphabetical
representations of the words spoken in Mandarin as heard by
Europeans. Beiping = Peiping, Beijing = Peking: Pinyin vs. Wade-Giles.
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
>Bay-zhing, or bay-jing...
>
>One hears both versions, and I've never been entirely sure which is
>the pukka way of pronouncing it. I recently discovered, though, that
>the "right" way[1] is the one that sounds awkward and gauche to my
>ear.
>
>[1]By this, I mean the "sort of correct" rather than "truly Chinese"
>pronunciation.
The Chinese fake the TV presentation of the Olympics opening ceremony
and Westerners should worry about gauche? Personally, I can't get
excited about what is truly Chinese anymore.
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs
Near Dublin, Ireland
Default User
There's an Illinois city named Pekin, pronounced PEEK'in. In my youth,
it became the center of some controversy because the high school team
name was "The Chinks". They had a wonderfully stereotyped logo of a
grinning Chinaman with the coolie hat and hands tucked inside the
sleeves, the whole bit. I searched unsuccessfully on Google images for
a shot.
After some at times acrimonious debate, the name was changed to "The
Dragons".
Brian
--
If televison's a babysitter, the Internet is a drunk librarian who
won't shut up.
-- Dorothy Gambrell (http://catandgirl.com)
CDB
Yes. Wiki points out that the KMT carried out a successful campaign
to win control of the North, and that another interpretation of their
name for the city is "North Pacified". I haven't heard of any current
proposals to change the name of Nanjing, perhaps because it is still a
provincial capital.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<chr...@eircom.net> wrote:
>The Chinese fake the TV presentation of the Olympics opening ceremony
>and Westerners should worry about gauche? Personally, I can't get
>excited about what is truly Chinese anymore.
The opening ceremony was showbiz on TV. They used a typical
showbiz approach: if the weather is not suitable for a live
display show a prerecorded version instead. Why spoil the magic
by announcing that's what had been done? "The show must go on"
even if a little fakery is necessary.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peacenik
news:q5a5a4pri7lrmcsh0...@4ax.com...
>
> Beiping was used during the last 60 years. For a different city from
> the current capital?? Or the same??
Same city, but it was renamed by the Kuomintang who designated Nanjing as
the capital of China. They changed the name of Beijing (Northern Capital) to
Beiping (Northern Peace) so as not to imply that Beijing was the capital of
China.
The Communists then changed it back to Beijing.
Peacenik
> wrote:
>
>>Bay-zhing, or bay-jing...
>>
>>One hears both versions, and I've never been entirely sure which is
>>the pukka way of pronouncing it. I recently discovered, though, that
>>the "right" way[1] is the one that sounds awkward and gauche to my
>>ear.
>>
>>[1]By this, I mean the "sort of correct" rather than "truly Chinese"
>>pronunciation.
"bay-JING" is as close as you can get in English to the actual Chinese
pronunciation. I have no idea why newscasters like to call it "bay-ZHING".
(The stress pattern in "bay-JING" even approximates the tones in Chinese.)
Chuck Riggs
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:16:48 +0100, Chuck Riggs
><chr...@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>>The Chinese fake the TV presentation of the Olympics opening ceremony
>>and Westerners should worry about gauche? Personally, I can't get
>>excited about what is truly Chinese anymore.
>
>The opening ceremony was showbiz on TV.
Did most viewers know that, or did they assume what they saw was what
the spectators in Beijing saw? Showbiz is fine when it isn't used to
cover up reality, which the Commies did and which Commies can be
expected to do again. In the coming weeks, which events will be real
and which will be faked? Do you care, or do you simply want a good
show?
> They used a typical
>showbiz approach: if the weather is not suitable for a live
>display show a prerecorded version instead. Why spoil the magic
>by announcing that's what had been done? "The show must go on"
>even if a little fakery is necessary.
How much is a little and how much is a lot?
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<chr...@eircom.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:55:17 +0100, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
><ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 17:16:48 +0100, Chuck Riggs
>><chr...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>>The Chinese fake the TV presentation of the Olympics opening ceremony
>>>and Westerners should worry about gauche? Personally, I can't get
>>>excited about what is truly Chinese anymore.
>>
>>The opening ceremony was showbiz on TV.
>
>Did most viewers know that, or did they assume what they saw was what
>the spectators in Beijing saw? Showbiz is fine when it isn't used to
>cover up reality, which the Commies did and which Commies can be
>expected to do again. In the coming weeks, which events will be real
>and which will be faked? Do you care, or do you simply want a good
>show?
>
>> They used a typical
>>showbiz approach: if the weather is not suitable for a live
>>display show a prerecorded version instead. Why spoil the magic
>>by announcing that's what had been done? "The show must go on"
>>even if a little fakery is necessary.
>
>How much is a little and how much is a lot?
Treated as a showbiz event in isolation I have no great problem
with part of what the organisers did[1]. As a prelude to a
sporting competition in which cheating is forbidden it leaves me
very uneasy.
An appropriate phrase might be "getting off on the wrong foot".
[1] Having a backup plan for bad weather is one thing but the
faking of the little girl singing was just dishonest. She was
miming; not to a recording she had made earlier but to the sound
of another girl who was a better singer but did not meet the
organisers' standards of prettiness.
http://penguinsix.com/2008/08/12/yang-peiyi-the-pretty-voice-behind-pretty-faced-lin-miaoke-who-sang-at-the-olympic-opening-ceremony-so-we-thought/
or http://tinyurl.com/6aobd6
Cece
> "mm" <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
Both cities had two names depending on which one the government had
moved to most recently before that! And the government did move back
and forth, during the 1930s. Life magazine explained it.
Hatunen
When I was young the city was known as either Peking or Peiping.
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Irwell
> On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 08:05:02 -0700 (PDT), Cece
> <ceceliaa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Aug 13, 11:15 pm, "Peacenik" <cnelsonpub...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> "mm" <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:q5a5a4pri7lrmcsh0...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > Beiping was used during the last 60 years. For a different city from
>>> > the current capital?? Or the same??
>>>
>>> Same city, but it was renamed by the Kuomintang who designated Nanjing as
>>> the capital of China. They changed the name of Beijing (Northern Capital) to
>>> Beiping (Northern Peace) so as not to imply that Beijing was the capital of
>>> China.
>>>
>>> The Communists then changed it back to Beijing.
>>
>>Both cities had two names depending on which one the government had
>>moved to most recently before that! And the government did move back
>>and forth, during the 1930s. Life magazine explained it.
>
> When I was young the city was known as either Peking or Peiping.
Who would want to eat a Mumbai duck, or drink a Mumbai oyster?
R H Draney
>
>On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:33:31 -0700, Hatunen wrote:
>
>> When I was young the city was known as either Peking or Peiping.
>
>Who would want to eat a Mumbai duck, or drink a Mumbai oyster?
Someone who would wear Myanmar Shave and keep a Thai cat....r
Unknown
On 14 Aug 2008 13:47:11 -0700, R H Draney posted:
>Irwell filted:
>>
>>On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:33:31 -0700, Hatunen wrote:
>>
>>> When I was young the city was known as either Peking or Peiping.
>>
>>Who would want to eat a Mumbai duck, or drink a Mumbai oyster?
>
>Someone who would wear Myanmar Shave and keep a Thai cat....r
So, Hamiltonians, then?
--
roses are #FF0000
violets are #0000FF
all my base
are belong to you
Unknown
On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:24:45 -0700, Irwell posted:
Or buy an Iranian rug?
Chuck Riggs
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
Another would be that the Chinese were "caught with their pants
down".
>[1] Having a backup plan for bad weather is one thing but the
>faking of the little girl singing was just dishonest. She was
>miming; not to a recording she had made earlier but to the sound
>of another girl who was a better singer but did not meet the
>organisers' standards of prettiness.
>http://penguinsix.com/2008/08/12/yang-peiyi-the-pretty-voice-behind-pretty-faced-lin-miaoke-who-sang-at-the-olympic-opening-ceremony-so-we-thought/
>or http://tinyurl.com/6aobd6
--
Regards,
R H Draney
>
>
>On 14 Aug 2008 13:47:11 -0700, R H Draney posted:
>
>>Irwell filted:
>>>
>>>On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:33:31 -0700, Hatunen wrote:
>>>
>>>> When I was young the city was known as either Peking or Peiping.
>>>
>>>Who would want to eat a Mumbai duck, or drink a Mumbai oyster?
>>
>>Someone who would wear Myanmar Shave and keep a Thai cat....r
>
>So, Hamiltonians, then?
Such is the word on the circuit....r
CDB
> On 14 Aug 2008 13:47:11 -0700, R H Draney posted:
>
>> Irwell filted:
>>>
>>> On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 09:33:31 -0700, Hatunen wrote:
>>>
>>>> When I was young the city was known as either Peking or Peiping.
>>>
>>> Who would want to eat a Mumbai duck, or drink a Mumbai oyster?
>>
>> Someone who would wear Myanmar Shave and keep a Thai cat....r
>
> So, Hamiltonians, then?
Ha. I heard they were trading them in for Argos when TO gets
buffaloed. I can has minor leagues?
Roland Hutchinson
Sometimes you stumble across a very nice Asian rug for sale by sheer Sri
Lankaity (formerly Ceylonity).
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
sage
> Bay-zhing, or bay-jing...
>
> One hears both versions, and I've never been entirely sure which is
> the pukka way of pronouncing it. I recently discovered, though, that
> the "right" way[1] is the one that sounds awkward and gauche to my
> ear.
>
> [1]By this, I mean the "sort of correct" rather than "truly Chinese"
> pronunciation.
>
At the risk of this having been answered elsewhere in the thread, I
heard "buy-jing" this morning on the whyliss.
Cheers, Sage
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
If you offer them enough they might sell you the place.