What is gravy?
Steve Barnard
What is gravity? Didn't you go to high school? Haven't you ever heard of
Isaac Newton? Gravity is what made the apple fall. If it weren't for
gravity you'd be flying off into space right now. How could you even ASK
such and INCREDIBLY STUPID question? What is gravity, indeed.
Oh, gravy? Never mind.
Emily Latella
Skitt
Nicole B. Hansen wrote in message ...
>In article <3575EF...@megafauna.com>, st...@megafauna.com wrote:
> How could you even ASK
>> such and INCREDIBLY STUPID question?
>>
>> Emily Latella
>
>Yes, Emily, how could you ask such an INCREDIBLY STUPID question? The
>poster is from SWEDEN, where English is not the native language. It is
>quite obvious this person is trying to understand the exact sense of the
>term. This should be even clearer by the fact that it is cross-posted to
>alt.usage.english.
For the sake of making the aforementioned more clear, I'd like to say that .
. . oops, I forgot what I was going to say . . .
--
Skitt (being a lot more kind)
http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/5537/
Skitt
Podibanda Kuruppu wrote in message ...
>By the way, the best gravy I have had -- no, make that I have _ever_ had --
>is made mostly of coconut milk. If you don't believe me, just go down to
>the closest Thai Restaurant in the neighborhood and taste it yourself.
>If you find yourself in San Luis Obispo, California, go to a restaurant
>called "Thai-rific", and they will show you the real stuff. Must I go on?
No, I know that I have a couple of cans of coconut milk (two, exactly, for
those disputing the meaning of "couple") in my cupboard. The question at
this point is, how do I use the substance within those cans to achieve
something pourable over, say, portehouse steak?
--
Skitt http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/5537/
Skitt
James Follett wrote in message <896928...@marage.demon.co.uk>...
>In article <6l4tqa$mgp$1...@argentina.it.earthlink.net>
> al...@myself.com "Skitt" writes:
>
>>For the sake of making the aforementioned more clear, I'd like to say that
.
>>. . oops, I forgot what I was going to say . . .
>>--
>>Skitt (being a lot more kind)
>
>This reformed character you're parading is most worrying. I have an
>alarming image of a large, sharp-snouted and sharp-suited wolf in a nice
>woolly outfit worming his wicked way forward on his stomach, smiling to
>the left and right as he proceeds. He looks okay; he smells okay; he's
>even got a passable bleat. But when he's worked himself well into
>the midst of us sheep... KERPOW!
>
>Even more worrying is a frozen chicken Kiev I picked up in a super-
>market recently that was, according to the label, made from reformed
>chickens.
Oh, James (gosh, that sounds so formal). OK, Jimbo, if you don't mind too
much, hey, you make me laugh, snicker even! Do not be afraid -- march
forward bravely into the abyss, I will not be in your way!
Hope this helps.
Comments?
--
Skitt http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/5537/
Podibanda Kuruppu
"Skitt" <al...@myself.com> writes:
First of all, you need to find out the coefficient of viscosity of the
"substance" (hopefully this is not a chemical substance from our cousins
south of the border) in the can. You said "substance" here. Solid or liquid?
(If it is solid, you need to hold the can over a Bunsen burner to liquefy the
contents.) Higher the coeffienct of viscosity, the fewer the number of
spoonfuls you will need. I would add about 5 teaspoonfuls of the liquid
to about a cup of boiling water, stir the mixture in a pan while tasting it
every few minutes. The way to ensure it is pourable is by checking how easily
you can remove the spatula used to stir it. If you can't remove the spatula,
you need more water; if you can remove the spatula easily, you need a little bit
of the substance. Make sure that you have enough to cover the steak about
half-way up.
If the can has a label with instructions in English, ignore what I said
completely. If the instructions are not in English, send a request to BM.
He will certainly oblige.
Sandpiper
Steve Barnard wrote:
>
> What is gravity? Didn't you go to high school? Haven't you ever heard of
> Isaac Newton? Gravity is what made the apple fall. If it weren't for
> such and INCREDIBLY STUPID question? What is gravity, indeed.
>
> Oh, gravy? Never mind.
>
> Emily Latella
It seems to me that all the responses I've seen to this didn't get it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but IT'S A JOKE!! Didn't anyone in here
ever watch Saturday Night Live in the late 70's, with Gilda Radner?
She played a character named Emily Latella, who would hear someone ask
something, and give this huge long response to it, only to find out at
the end that she misunderstood what they said, at which point she'd say
"Never mind."
It loses something in the translation, but was funny at the time.
Steve Barnard
Podibanda Kuruppu wrote:
>
> Steve Barnard <st...@megafauna.com> writes:
>
> >
> > The gravy should be the last thing you make.
>
> The last statement is not true. The longer the chicken (whatever innocent
> bird/animal you choose to cook on the occasion) is cooked, the tastier the
> gravy becomes - unless you use canned gravy that requires a little bit of
> heating.
Absolutely not. A roasted chicken or turkey (for example) should
*always* be allowed to cool in the pan, in its juices, before it's
carved. The larger the bird the longer it must cool. Never carve a bird
right out of the oven.
Since gravy, properly made, takes about a minute to cook, and it only
gets worse with time, it should be the last thing cooked.
Canned gravy??? What in the name of God is that?
> The "grease" is corn starch which is used to add consistency
> to the gravy.
I don't think so! I've *never* put cornstarch in my gravy, and I never
will. My God! Maybe that's an Asian thing, but it will never pass with
Maryland fried-chicken gravy. As for consistency, you can stand a fork
up in my gravy.
Steve Barnard
Claes Molander
What is gravy?
Is it simply a sauce made from the juice that comes from meat as it
cooks, or do you have to mix it with flour thus making it viscid, first?
Remembering my childhood English Sunday roasts, I'd say it's the first
(my _Prismas_ English亡wedish dictionary agrees with me). My other
dictionary, _Longmans DoCE_, however, claims you have to mix the juice
with flour in order to make gravy. Maybe it varies depending on what
region you're from?
--
Claes
Peter Moylan
Claes Molander <supe...@ebox.tninet.se> wrote:
>What is gravy?
>
>Is it simply a sauce made from the juice that comes from meat as it
>cooks, or do you have to mix it with flour thus making it viscid, first?
>
>Remembering my childhood English Sunday roasts, I'd say it's the first
>dictionary, _Longmans DoCE_, however, claims you have to mix the juice
>with flour in order to make gravy. Maybe it varies depending on what
>region you're from?
My grandmother used to use flour. My mother used a product
called "Gravox", which I think was flour mixed with a few
other things. I just add water to whatever's left in the
pan.
So I suspect that it varies not only by region, but also from
person to person.
--
Peter Moylan pe...@ee.newcastle.edu.au
http://www.ee.newcastle.edu.au/users/staff/peter/Moylan.html
Michael C. Herman
Ash Nallawalla wrote in message <6l52q9$7o5$1...@possum.melbpc.org.au>...
>Claes Molander wrote in message <357601...@ebox.tninet.se>...
>>What is gravy?
>
>
>It depends on the cuisine. I have often heard the liquid in a
>curry (vegetable or meat) referred to as "gravy".
>
It can also mean an something easy, or an extra reward. A "gravy job",
is an easy one with good rewards.
Michael
James Follett
>For the sake of making the aforementioned more clear, I'd like to say that .
>. . oops, I forgot what I was going to say . . .
>--
>Skitt (being a lot more kind)
This reformed character you're parading is most worrying. I have an
alarming image of a large, sharp-snouted and sharp-suited wolf in a nice
woolly outfit worming his wicked way forward on his stomach, smiling to
the left and right as he proceeds. He looks okay; he smells okay; he's
even got a passable bleat. But when he's worked himself well into
the midst of us sheep... KERPOW!
Even more worrying is a frozen chicken Kiev I picked up in a super-
market recently that was, according to the label, made from reformed
chickens.
--
James Follett -- novelist http://www.davew.demon.co.uk
PS: If you dare find or quote a dictionary at me with the correct
spelling of KERPOW! you will have proved my point.
James Follett
In article <357601...@ebox.tninet.se>
supe...@ebox.tninet.se "Claes Molander" writes:
>What is gravy?
Why don't I hear the creak of Mimi's approach?
Ash Nallawalla
pet...@ms.com
In article <6l53cm$1a62$1...@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net>,
"Michael C. Herman" <cel...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>
> Ash Nallawalla wrote in message <6l52q9$7o5$1...@possum.melbpc.org.au>...
> is an easy one with good rewards.
>
> Michael
>
>
pay all of the employees and the vendors, the rest is
gravy.
Hth
Pjk
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Podibanda Kuruppu
Steve Barnard <st...@megafauna.com> writes:
>
> Podibanda Kuruppu wrote:
> >
> > Steve Barnard <st...@megafauna.com> writes:
> >
> > >
> > > The gravy should be the last thing you make.
> >
> > The last statement is not true. The longer the chicken (whatever innocent
> > bird/animal you choose to cook on the occasion) is cooked, the tastier the
> > gravy becomes - unless you use canned gravy that requires a little bit of
> > heating.
>
> Absolutely not. A roasted chicken or turkey (for example) should
> *always* be allowed to cool in the pan, in its juices, before it's
> carved. The larger the bird the longer it must cool. Never carve a bird
> right out of the oven.
Agreed.
>
> Since gravy, properly made, takes about a minute to cook, and it only
> gets worse with time, it should be the last thing cooked.
>
My experience is that gravy is the heavy thick liquid produced during the
cooking process. This is a mixture of milk, the juice of the bird, spices,
and whatever else you care to add. I see your point though. Gravy is prepared
separately, too?
> Canned gravy??? What in the name of God is that?
For those who don't enjoy the fine art of cooking, they make the gravy much
like the canned soup you get in a supermarket. I personally don't touch this
stuff with a 10-foot pole.
> > The "grease" is corn starch which is used to add consistency
> > to the gravy.
>
> I don't think so! I've *never* put cornstarch in my gravy, and I never
> will. My God! Maybe that's an Asian thing, but it will never pass with
> Maryland fried-chicken gravy. As for consistency, you can stand a fork
> up in my gravy.
Uninformed lurkers might go to an Auto-parts store looking for grease unless
you tell them what it is.
I will wait for the AUE Chicken Cook-off Day to find out how good your gravy
is.
Sara
Peg Shambo wrote:
> There is a
> milky gravy used in the southern US, served with biscuits and sausages.
Is it just the world I live in, or do only foodie types (and sometimes I
are one) use the word "sausages"? Everyone else I know just says
"sausage" to mean the whole pile of sausages (see? there I go being a
foodie). Now and then we'll need to make it plural, but then we say
"links" or "patties" but never "sausages". Maybe it's just a Southern
thing.
Sara
The gal with the fried brain trying to survive a software conversion.
M. Ranjit Mathews
Bun Mui wrote:
> Juice from meats.
>
> Bun Mui
beat it, BM.
Donna Richoux
Michael C. Herman <cel...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> Ash Nallawalla wrote in message <6l52q9$7o5$1...@possum.melbpc.org.au>...
> >Claes Molander wrote in message <357601...@ebox.tninet.se>...
> >>What is gravy?
> >
> >
> >It depends on the cuisine. I have often heard the liquid in a
> >curry (vegetable or meat) referred to as "gravy".
> >
> It can also mean an something easy, or an extra reward. A "gravy job",
> is an easy one with good rewards.
And, probably from that sort of use comes the sarcastic "That's just
gravy," meaning "That's really terrible" or "Look what trouble we're in
now." Like the sarcastic use of "That's just jim-dandy" and so on.
Best --- Donna Richoux
H.W.M.
Sara wrote:
> Peg Shambo wrote:
> > There is a
> > milky gravy used in the southern US, served with biscuits and sausages.
>
> Is it just the world I live in, or do only foodie types (and sometimes I
> are one) use the word "sausages"? Everyone else I know just says
> "sausage" to mean the whole pile of sausages (see? there I go being a
> foodie). Now and then we'll need to make it plural, but then we say
> "links" or "patties" but never "sausages". Maybe it's just a Southern
> thing.
So when you go to the meat counter you see a variety of ...?Baloneys?
--
78 HWM henry.w @ gnwmail.com
*****************************************************
* If yu a booguyaga war boat an badda badda me wid *
* idiat letters, I gwine mark yu number nine a leak.*
* No watch nutten, a no all duppy tun rolling calf. *
*****************************************************
JNugent231
>From: "H.W.M." <pikk...@antarktica.com>
>> Is it just the world I live in, or do only foodie types (and sometimes I
>> are one) use the word "sausages"? Everyone else I know just says
>> "sausage" to mean the whole pile of sausages
In the UK, it's "sausages" (if there is more than one....)
In Germany, it is "wurst" (singular), and even in English, we refer to "German
sausage", never German sausages. Of course, British bangers are individual,
relatively small things, served in twos and threes to a diner. In Germany (and
perhaps in the USA?) many (but not all) sausages are large and are divided into
portions, each sausage serving several (many?) diners.
Sara
H.W.M. wrote:
>
> So when you go to the meat counter you see a variety of ...?Baloneys?
>
Sausage.
Hey, I never said it was gramatically correct; it just "is."
H.W.M.
Sara wrote:
Dunno about the grammar part meself either. It is probably one of these
quirks the English language is notorious of....
Maybe it is due to the fact that linguistic sausage is the end product of
linguistic sheep.
BTW does meat have a plural form in your parts, as in "meats" ???
Brian J Goggin
On Thu, 04 Jun 1998 12:11:24 -0500, Sara <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
[...]
>Is it just the world I live in, or do only foodie types (and sometimes I
>are one) use the word "sausages"? Everyone else I know just says
>"sausage" to mean the whole pile of sausages (see? there I go being a
>foodie). Now and then we'll need to make it plural, but then we say
>"links" or "patties" but never "sausages". Maybe it's just a Southern
>thing.
The plural "sausages" is, in Ireland, the more commonly used word. If
"patties" is used at all, it is likely to refer to the more disgusting
sort of hamburger. I haven't heard "links" used, nor seen it outside
the more trendy sort of cookbook.
bjg
Sara
H.W.M. wrote:
> BTW does meat have a plural form in your parts, as in "meats" ???
Nope. "Meat" pretty much takes care of everything. (Pretty efficient,
huh?)
Come to think of it, we don't call more than one cow "cows." They're
cattle. Maybe that's the origin "meat" as opposed to "meats."
However, we do use the word "pigs". But this is Texas, darlin', and
"meat" around these parts means beef.
John Davies
In article <3575FA...@megafauna.com>, Steve Barnard
<st...@megafauna.com> writes
>
>Gravy is made by
[enormously detailed instructions snipped...]
>
>The gravy should be the last thing you make.
Are you by any chance related to Dr Kerkorian?
--
John Davies (jo...@redwoods.demon.co.uk)
Evan Kirshenbaum
"H.W.M." <pikk...@antarktica.com> writes:
> Sara wrote:
>
> > Peg Shambo wrote:
> > > There is a
> > > milky gravy used in the southern US, served with biscuits and sausages.
> >
> > Is it just the world I live in, or do only foodie types (and sometimes I
> > are one) use the word "sausages"? Everyone else I know just says
> > "sausage" to mean the whole pile of sausages (see? there I go being a
> > foodie). Now and then we'll need to make it plural, but then we say
> > "links" or "patties" but never "sausages". Maybe it's just a Southern
> > thing.
>
> So when you go to the meat counter you see a variety of ...?Baloneys?
"types of sausage". Note that (at least in my dialect) "sausages" is
fine for things like kielbasa, bratwurst, and knockwurst, which are
typically eaten whole, often on sandwiches. The stuff you eat for
breakfast (whether as links or as patties) and stuff eaten sliced
(such as bologna) are what has to be "sausage".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |In the beginning, there were no
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |reasons, there were only causes.
Palo Alto, CA 94304 | Daniel Dennet
James Follett
In article <3576F0AC...@antarktica.com>
clin...@orbiting.uranus "H.W.M." writes:
How can the 60 degrees North in your ID be anywhere near Antarctica?
Well... Someone has to try getting this thread off food.
Cissy . Thorpe
> Claes Molander <supe...@ebox.tninet.se> wrote:
It varies by region, by person, by background and by gravy type. Redeye
gravy is simply the pan drippings from beef and coffee! Cream gravies
always use milk. Most of what comes in jars, cans or mixes use cornstarch
or arrowroot as thickeners. Some people call au jus "gravy" and that's just
the pan drippings.
My 2p
Cissy
Cissy . Thorpe
On Thu, 4 Jun 1998, Bun Mui wrote:
> Juice from meats.
>
> Bun Mui
>
or the sauce made from the same...
or something illicitly obtained...
or something extra added...
or an especially lucrative endeavor...
Cissy
Steve Barnard
Truly Donovan wrote:
>
> On 4 Jun 1998 02:39:02 GMT, pe...@eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (Peter
> Moylan) wrote:
>
> >My grandmother used to use flour. My mother used a product
> >called "Gravox", which I think was flour mixed with a few
> >other things. I just add water to whatever's left in the
> >pan.
> >
> >person to person.
>
> Thanksgiving guest: "How do you get that rich, dark color in your
> gravy?"
>
> Me: "Kitchen Bouquet."
>
> TG: "What's 'Kitchen Bouquet'?"
>
> Me: "It's the stuff you use to make your gravy a rich, dark color."
Right. "A few other things."
All you need to make perfect gravy is pan juices (i.e., grease), flour,
and some kind of liquid (milk, broth, water, etc.), and a considerable
amount of experience. Use some spices if you want, but anything besides
salt and pepper is overkill, IMHO.
The biggest gravy challenge to me is making gravy for a large
Thanksgiving turkey. I want to make a *lot* of it, for leftovers, and I
don't want it to be too thick. That gets me out of my rhythm. It becomes
an improvised act, unlike the routine I have down pat for conventional
gravy dishes.
BTW, my daughters love gravy with lumps. To get good lumps you need a
slight excess of flour.
Steve Barnard
Justin B Rye
Sandpiper <sand...@removethistoreply.pacbell.net> wrote:
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but IT'S A JOKE!! Didn't anyone in here
> ever watch Saturday Night Live in the late 70's, with Gilda Radner?
"Saturday Night Live"? Which was it on, BBC or ITV?
JBR - not really @SPAMTRAP
Ankh kak! (Ancient Egyptian blessing)
Truly Donovan
>My grandmother used to use flour. My mother used a product
>called "Gravox", which I think was flour mixed with a few
>other things. I just add water to whatever's left in the
>pan.
>
>So I suspect that it varies not only by region, but also from
>person to person.
Thanksgiving guest: "How do you get that rich, dark color in your
gravy?"
Me: "Kitchen Bouquet."
TG: "What's 'Kitchen Bouquet'?"
Me: "It's the stuff you use to make your gravy a rich, dark color."
--
Truly Donovan
reply to truly at lunemere dot com
H.W.M.
James Follett wrote:
> In article <3576F0AC...@antarktica.com>
> clin...@orbiting.uranus "H.W.M." writes:
>
> How can the 60 degrees North in your ID be anywhere near Antarctica?
It had something to do with the monkey I have typing for me. I suppose
it was the coriolis effect and you know how far a penguin can travel
when it gets disoriented. I try to make my spamtraps a bit more
interesting than the usual ones.The organization is one of them, but I
do intend to name my boat "Bakra Virago". That is when, not if. And the
location is where it hopefully shall be berthed. Wishful thinking you
might say.
This thread is a bit gravy, byt atleast it is not one of the "Wrath of
Kahn" -ones. My reply-address is also caused by too much science
fiction. What should I do?
Sara
Sandpiper wrote:
>
>
> It seems to me that all the responses I've seen to this didn't get it.
>
All the responses *I've* seen got it exactly. The "Jane, you're a
slut," and "You've got a ball of sweat dripping off your nose" were gags
from the same show.
Young
Sara wrote:
> All the responses *I've* seen got it exactly. The "Jane, you're a
> slut," and "You've got a ball of sweat dripping off your nose" were gags
> from the same show.
I'm not usually one to quote shows or movies, but some lines ...
you can't forget ... that 'Jane! You ignorant slut!' still
makes me laugh ... Candygram!!! (laughing)
So, on some other newsgroup today, coincidentally, someone said
'Go away or I shall taunt you some more!' I laughed so loud ...
and added 'I'll bite your leg off!' ...
nancy (all out of quotes)
Sam Melton
Steve Barnard wrote:
>The biggest gravy challenge to me is making gravy for a large
>Thanksgiving turkey. I want to make a *lot* of it, for leftovers, and I
>don't want it to be too thick. That gets me out of my rhythm. It becomes
>an improvised act, unlike the routine I have down pat for conventional
>gravy dishes.
>
The tragedy of my marriage is that my wife cannot stand and will not
make giblet gravy at Thanksgiving. My mother used to make it with the
giblet and heart and other nifty parts, plus mushrooms, bits of boiled
egg and such. Scrumptious. But, that lack is my wife's only flaw, so
I guess I'll keep her. She makes a mean cream gravy, served best with
biscuits and bacon for breakfast.
V/R
Sam Melton, who can't believe he dared to enter an
alt.usage.english.food thread.
James Follett
In article <35787cc6...@news.wilmington.net>
sbme...@wilmington.net "Sam Melton" writes:
>The tragedy of my marriage is that my wife cannot stand and will not
>make giblet gravy at Thanksgiving.
Ask her to make it sitting down.
Paul Juhl
Sara <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> >H.W.M. wrote:
> >
> >> BTW does meat have a plural form in your parts, as in "meats" ???
> >
> >Nope. "Meat" pretty much takes care of everything. (Pretty efficient,
> >huh?)
Gourmet meats, luncheon meats, specialty meats. The word has been thus
pluralized for many years, and the dictionaries will eventually catch on.
> >Come to think of it, we don't call more than one cow "cows." They're
> >cattle. Maybe that's the origin "meat" as opposed to "meats."
One cow. Two cows. A whole buncha cows. Seriously, you'd never refer to a
dairy herd as cattle. They're just contented cows.
Either Sara meant this post as a joke or she didn't think it through. Such
as the Ann Landers ghost writer who told readers that country folk know
rain is acomin' when they see cows lying down in the field. And sloppy,
gullible editors all over let it see print.
--
Paul Juhl
Montreal
Bob Newman
According to Dr Johnson's dictionary (1755) it is "The serous juice that
runs from flesh not much dried by the fire".
Bob Newman
Claes Molander wrote:
> What is gravy?
Skitt
Young wrote in message <357840...@mail.monmouth.com>...
>So, on some other newsgroup today, coincidentally, someone said
>'Go away or I shall taunt you some more!' I laughed so loud ...
>and added 'I'll bite your leg off!' ...
The Frenchman said: "Go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!"
--
Skitt http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/5537/
Young
Paul Juhl wrote:
> as the Ann Landers ghost writer who told readers that country folk know
> rain is acomin' when they see cows lying down in the field.
(puzzled look) Why would they say that, when you know rain is coming
when the leaves on the trees turn over?
nancy
M. Ranjit Mathews
Skitt wrote:
... I will taunt .... or ..... you shall be taunted .....
Skitt
M. Ranjit Mathews wrote in message
<3579CE58...@austin.ibm.com>...
>Skitt wrote:
>
>> Young wrote in message <357840...@mail.monmouth.com>...
>>
>> >So, on some other newsgroup today, coincidentally, someone said
>> >'Go away or I shall taunt you some more!' I laughed so loud ...
>> >and added 'I'll bite your leg off!' ...
>>
>> The Frenchman said: "Go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!"
>
> ... I will taunt .... or ..... you shall be taunted .....
>
I had remembered the quote correctly, except for the word "now" at its
beginning. It, and many others, can be heard at:
http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Sounds.html
--
Skitt http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/5537/
Young
> beginning. It, and many others, can be heard at:
> http://bau2.uibk.ac.at/sg/python/Sounds.html
> --
> Skitt
(laughing!) Monty Python and the Holy Grail has to be one of the most
quotable movies of all time ... a swallow can't carry a coconut!
I have to buy this movie ... because I can't quote it line for line
the way guys can ... still, makes me laugh!
nancy (up there with Being There and The Gods Must Be Crazy with my
all time favorite movies)
Sara
And you know it will be a cold rain if the wooly worms are traveling
east to west.
Drivr
ndo...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu (nancy dooley) wrote:
>On Thu, 04 Jun 1998 14:33:46 -0500, Sara <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
>>H.W.M. wrote:
>>
>>> BTW does meat have a plural form in your parts, as in "meats" ???
>>
>>Nope. "Meat" pretty much takes care of everything. (Pretty efficient,
>>huh?)
>>
>>Come to think of it, we don't call more than one cow "cows." They're
>>cattle. Maybe that's the origin "meat" as opposed to "meats."
>Sorry, but up here in beef country, we DO say "cows." We also say
>cattle, kine, herd, and beef. It depends on what we see. ;-)
>N.
even on NewEngland milk farms we call them cows
CynW514
>
>Juice from meats.
As for instance the "au jus sauce" served with roast beef in certain Northern
Kentucky restaurants.
Cynthia Walker (Cyn...@aol.com) the cat comes in on little fog feet
Evan Kirshenbaum
cyn...@aol.com (CynW514) writes:
> >
> >Juice from meats.
>
> As for instance the "au jus sauce" served with roast beef in certain
> Northern Kentucky restaurants.
Here in California, that's just "au jus", as in "Do you want some au
jus on your sandwich?"
As long as we're on the subject, I'd like to mention that I was
recently at an Olive Garden restaurant and saw "Chicken Scampi" on the
menu. I think this pretty much clinches the observation that "scampi"
is just a type of preparation these days. (And no, it didn't involve
shrimp, just the garlic sauce you'd normally associate with shrimp
scampi.)
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |On a scale of one to ten...
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |it sucked.
Palo Alto, CA 94304
Michael Cargal
Evan Kirshenbaum <ev...@garrett.hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>As long as we're on the subject, I'd like to mention that I was
>recently at an Olive Garden restaurant and saw "Chicken Scampi" on the
>menu. I think this pretty much clinches the observation that "scampi"
>is just a type of preparation these days. (And no, it didn't involve
>shrimp, just the garlic sauce you'd normally associate with shrimp
>scampi.)
Another example of this is "beef kabob." "Shish" means "sword," and
"kabob" means "lamb" so "shish kabob" is lamb on a sword. "Beef kabob"
would be beef on a lamb.
Michael Cargal car...@cts.com
If posting a reply to the newsgroup, please do not email the same reply to me--it just confuses me.
Dave Crane
car...@cts.com (Michael Cargal) wrote:
>Another example of this is "beef kabob." "Shish" means "sword," and
>"kabob" means "lamb" so "shish kabob" is lamb on a sword. "Beef kabob"
>would be beef on a lamb.
Shish kabeef?
Shish kabobitt?
Mike Barnes
In alt.usage.english, Michael Cargal <car...@cts.com> spake thuswise:
>Another example of this is "beef kabob." "Shish" means "sword," and
>"kabob" means "lamb" so "shish kabob" is lamb on a sword. "Beef kabob"
>would be beef on a lamb.
Really? My understanding is/was that "kebab" (kabob, etc) means small
pieces of meat cooked *dry*, usually after being marinated. In what
language does "kabob" mean "lamb"?
--
-- Mike Barnes, Stockport, England.
-- If you post a response to Usenet, please *don't* send me a copy by e-mail.
Mike Barnes
In alt.usage.english, Evan Kirshenbaum <ev...@garrett.hpl.hp.com> spake
thuswise:
>As long as we're on the subject, I'd like to mention that I was
>recently at an Olive Garden restaurant and saw "Chicken Scampi" on the
>menu. I think this pretty much clinches the observation that "scampi"
>is just a type of preparation these days.
A useful observation. But what I don't understand is which of these applies
(in the USA only, of course)--
Just about everybody knows that "scampi" doesn't mean shellfish.
Just about nobody knows that scampi is actually shellfish.
Somewhere in between, causing a certain amount of confusion.
> (And no, it didn't involve
>shrimp, just the garlic sauce you'd normally associate with shrimp
>scampi.)
In what way, if any, is AmE "scampi" different to "with garlic sauce"?
I'm reminded of my utter bafflement when first coming across a "Smorgasbord"
(actually rather worse than that - a "Mongolian Smorgasbord") in the USA.
Michael Cargal
Mike Barnes <mi...@exodus.co.uk> wrote:
>In alt.usage.english, Michael Cargal <car...@cts.com> spake thuswise:
>>Another example of this is "beef kabob." "Shish" means "sword," and
>>"kabob" means "lamb" so "shish kabob" is lamb on a sword. "Beef kabob"
>>would be beef on a lamb.
>
>Really? My understanding is/was that "kebab" (kabob, etc) means small
>pieces of meat cooked *dry*, usually after being marinated. In what
>language does "kabob" mean "lamb"?
I'm told Turkish. This is second-hand, so I won't stake much on it,
but it was a Turk who told me.
Evan Kirshenbaum
Mike Barnes <mi...@exodus.co.uk> writes:
> In alt.usage.english, Evan Kirshenbaum <ev...@garrett.hpl.hp.com> spake
> thuswise:
> >As long as we're on the subject, I'd like to mention that I was
> >recently at an Olive Garden restaurant and saw "Chicken Scampi" on the
> >menu. I think this pretty much clinches the observation that "scampi"
> >is just a type of preparation these days.
>
> A useful observation. But what I don't understand is which of these
> applies (in the USA only, of course)--
>
> Just about everybody knows that "scampi" doesn't mean shellfish.
> Just about nobody knows that scampi is actually shellfish.
> Somewhere in between, causing a certain amount of confusion.
If you go by dictionaries, apparently the second. MWCD10 (and the
online version) simply define it as
SHRIMP; especially : large shrimp prepared with a garlic-flavored
sauce
Of course, if people use the word regularly and nobody knows that
that's what it means, then, sorta by definition, it doesn't.
Looking in _The Good Housekeeping Illustrated Cookbook_ (I'm at home
and therefore have access to a different set of reference books),
"scampi" is defined as "shrimp or a dish of shrimp in garlic sauce".
Maybe cooks are a holdout. Growing up in Chicago, I never understood
it to be other than a specific preparation of shrimp.
I've never seen any confusion arise by, say, someone asking for
"scampi" and receiving another preparation of shrimp (or even being
asked what preparation they wanted).
> In what way, if any, is AmE "scampi" different to "with garlic
> sauce"?
It's not just "with garlic sauce", but "broiled in garlic sauce".
> I'm reminded of my utter bafflement when first coming across a
> "Smorgasbord" (actually rather worse than that - a "Mongolian
> Smorgasbord") in the USA.
Are we too specific or too general? MW9NCD describes it as
a luncheon or supper buffet offering a variety of foods and dishes
(as hors d'oevres, hot and cold meats, smoked and pickled fish,
cheeses, salads, and relishes).
That's pretty much what I've always thought of it as. Is it that we
don't necessarily limit it to sandwich ingredients?
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Never ascribe to malice that which
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |can adequately be explained by
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |stupidity.
Evan Kirshenbaum
car...@cts.com (Michael Cargal) writes:
MW9NCD derives "shish kabob" from Armenian, not Turkish, but
uncharacteristically doesn't say what the Armenian means. It only
claims it back to 1936.
Looking up "kabob", I find the etymology
Per[sian], Hindi, Ar[abic]; Per & Hindi _kabab_, fr. Ar, fr. Turk
_kebap_ (1673)
again not saying what the words *mean*. The definition is
cubes of meat (as lamb or beef) marinated and cooked with vegetables
(as onions, tomatoes, and green peppers) usu. on a skewer.
So, it looks as though "kabob" and "shish kabob" were borrowed from
different languages on different occasions nearly three hundred years
apart.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Yesterday I washed a single sock.
1501 Page Mill Road, Building 1U |When I opened the door, the machine
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |was empty.
| Peter Moylan
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Mike Page
On 10 Jun 1998 09:46:31 -0700, Evan Kirshenbaum
<ev...@garrett.hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>Mike Barnes <mi...@exodus.co.uk> writes:
>
>> In alt.usage.english, Evan Kirshenbaum <ev...@garrett.hpl.hp.com> spake
>> thuswise:
>> >As long as we're on the subject, I'd like to mention that I was
>> >recently at an Olive Garden restaurant and saw "Chicken Scampi" on the
>> >menu. I think this pretty much clinches the observation that "scampi"
>> >is just a type of preparation these days.
>>
>>
[...]
>> In what way, if any, is AmE "scampi" different to "with garlic
>> sauce"?
>
>It's not just "with garlic sauce", but "broiled in garlic sauce".
>
Jane Grigson, ('Fish Cookery', 1975, Penguin) citing various works and
the Fisheries Division of the OECD, asserts that scampi are Norway
lobsters alias Dublin Bay Prawns (which I would have thought would
make a contribution from Brian more or less inevitable on this topic)
alias nephrops norvegicus. Colin Spencer ('Fish Cookery') says the
name is the plural of the Italian name for the creature 'scampo'.
However, when served in British pubs, the dish usually comprises
unidentifiable lumps of fishy products breadcrumbed, deep fried and
served in a basket with chips and a sachet of tartare sauce. If you
are lucky, the fish content will be bits of monkfish tail. Garlic
sauce is not usually associated with scampi in the UK.
Our collection of cook books give lots of alternative recipes should
one be able to get hold of real scampi.
Mike Page
Let the ape escape for e-mail
Brian J Goggin
On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 21:15:42 GMT, po...@pygmaeus.orang.u-net.com (Mike
Page) wrote:
[...]
>Jane Grigson, ('Fish Cookery', 1975, Penguin) citing various works and
>the Fisheries Division of the OECD, asserts that scampi are Norway
>lobsters alias Dublin Bay Prawns (which I would have thought would
>make a contribution from Brian more or less inevitable on this topic)
Apart from changing "scampi are" to "scampi should be", I'd agree with
Ms Grigson.
Dublin Bay Prawns are not, as far as I can recall, prawns. However, I
can't consult my cookery books at the moment.
[...]
bjg
Aaron J. Dinkin
In article <v9hlnr5...@garrett.hpl.hp.com>, Evan Kirshenbaum
<ev...@garrett.hpl.hp.com> wrote:
> car...@cts.com (Michael Cargal) writes:
>
> > Mike Barnes <mi...@exodus.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> > >In alt.usage.english, Michael Cargal <car...@cts.com> spake thuswise:
> > >>Another example of this is "beef kabob." "Shish" means "sword,"
> > >>and "kabob" means "lamb" so "shish kabob" is lamb on a
> > >>sword. "Beef kabob" would be beef on a lamb.
> > >
> > >Really? My understanding is/was that "kebab" (kabob, etc) means
> > >small pieces of meat cooked *dry*, usually after being marinated.
> > >In what language does "kabob" mean "lamb"?
> >
> > I'm told Turkish. This is second-hand, so I won't stake much on it,
> > but it was a Turk who told me.
>
> MW9NCD derives "shish kabob" from Armenian, not Turkish, but
> uncharacteristically doesn't say what the Armenian means. It only
> claims it back to 1936.
<snip>
The AHD's etymology [for diacriticals, I'll use <s.> for <s> with a dot
under it and <i.> for <i> with no dot over it]:
[Turkish "s.is. kebabi." : "s.is.", skewer + "kebap", roast meat]
which seems to settle the matter. Mike seems right, and "beef kabob" is no
longer ridiculous, but it does become fairly unspecific.
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom
Mike Zorn
In <357e0476....@news.hal-pc.org> dcra...@hal-pc.org (Dave Crane) writes:
>car...@cts.com (Michael Cargal) wrote:
>>Another example of this is "beef kabob." "Shish" means "sword," and
>>"kabob" means "lamb" so "shish kabob" is lamb on a sword. "Beef kabob"
>>would be beef on a lamb.
>Shish kabeef?
>Shish kabobitt?
Sish Kabibble?
Mike Zorn rigo...@kaiwan.com
Mike Barnes
>"scampi" and receiving another preparation of shrimp (or even being
>asked what preparation they wanted).
The sort of confusion I had in mind was someone like myself, who would
assume that "Chicken Scampi" contained shellfish. To me "scampi" means
simply a type of shellfish, which might or might not be the same as the
Italian "scampi", and implies no special preparation or accompaniment.
From what you say this sounds like a BrE/AmE problem only, so confusion
is unlikely to be an issue with AmE speakers. That's what I wanted to
know - thanks.
The confusion you describe could easily arise if an American were to
order scampi in Britain.
>> I'm reminded of my utter bafflement when first coming across a
>> "Smorgasbord" (actually rather worse than that - a "Mongolian
>> Smorgasbord") in the USA.
>
>Are we too specific or too general? MW9NCD describes it as
>
> a luncheon or supper buffet offering a variety of foods and dishes
> (as hors d'oevres, hot and cold meats, smoked and pickled fish,
> cheeses, salads, and relishes).
>
>That's pretty much what I've always thought of it as. Is it that we
>don't necessarily limit it to sandwich ingredients?
To some extent, yes, but more particularly "smorgasbord" implies
Scandinavian cuisine to me (and, I suspect, to most Brits). If we meant
a buffet, we say "buffet". If we mean "all you can eat", we say "all
you can eat". If we say "smorgasbord", which it has to be said we don't
do very much, we mean some weird *Scandinavian* foods served as an open
sandwich or on a buffet.
Cue the Italians and Swedes to tell us what these words *really* mean...
Truly Donovan
On Tue, 09 Jun 1998 20:23:22 GMT, car...@cts.com (Michael Cargal)
wrote:
>Another example of this is "beef kabob." "Shish" means "sword," and
>"kabob" means "lamb" so "shish kabob" is lamb on a sword. "Beef kabob"
>would be beef on a lamb.
The kabob is the skewer, the shish is the lamb.
--
Truly Donovan
reply to truly at lunemere dot com
Michael Cargal
adi...@commschool.org (Aaron J. Dinkin) wrote:
>In article <v9hlnr5...@garrett.hpl.hp.com>, Evan Kirshenbaum
><ev...@garrett.hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>
>> car...@cts.com (Michael Cargal) writes:
>>
>> > Mike Barnes <mi...@exodus.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> > >In alt.usage.english, Michael Cargal <car...@cts.com> spake thuswise:
>> > >>Another example of this is "beef kabob." "Shish" means "sword,"
>> > >>and "kabob" means "lamb" so "shish kabob" is lamb on a
>> > >>sword. "Beef kabob" would be beef on a lamb.
>> > >
>> > >Really? My understanding is/was that "kebab" (kabob, etc) means
>> > >small pieces of meat cooked *dry*, usually after being marinated.
>> > >In what language does "kabob" mean "lamb"?
>> >
>> > I'm told Turkish. This is second-hand, so I won't stake much on it,
>> > but it was a Turk who told me.
>>
>> MW9NCD derives "shish kabob" from Armenian, not Turkish, but
>> uncharacteristically doesn't say what the Armenian means. It only
>> claims it back to 1936.
>
><snip>
>
>The AHD's etymology [for diacriticals, I'll use <s.> for <s> with a dot
>under it and <i.> for <i> with no dot over it]:
>
> [Turkish "s.is. kebabi." : "s.is.", skewer + "kebap", roast meat]
>
>which seems to settle the matter. Mike seems right, and "beef kabob" is no
>longer ridiculous, but it does become fairly unspecific.
Thank you. I guess my lesson is that folk etymologies are world-wide,
and I shouldn't believe all I'm told, or at least shouldn't put it on
a.u.e without checking it.
"Beef kabab" still seems odd; it would be "beef roast meat" when
"skewered beef" is the meaning intended.
Mike Page
On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:04:45 GMT, b...@wordwrights.ie (Brian J Goggin)
wrote:
Grigson says that they are the same family as lobster. She also adds
they are the same as the French langoustines. Spencer says 'The name
Dublin Bay Prawn comes from the fact that the Irish fishing boats
would reach Dublin Bay with their fish and the prawns were given to
the fishermen as being worthless, they in turn gave them to the Dublin
street vendors.'
Surely it must have been very heaven to dwell in the land of Saints
and Scholars (not to be confused with religious fanatics and pedants)
when fresh DBPs were to be had for the asking.
N.Mitchum
tr...@lunemere.com wrote to >>Michael Cargal :
------
> >Another example of this is "beef kabob." "Shish" means "sword," and
> >"kabob" means "lamb" so "shish kabob" is lamb on a sword. "Beef kabob"
> >would be beef on a lamb.
>
The dictionary disagrees with you both: it says "shish" means
"skewer" whereas "kebab" is any piece of marinated meat. That
makes "beef kebab" quite justifiable as meaning "piece of
marinated beef."
But even if "shish" did mean "lamb," "shish beef" would not sound
as trippingly as "beef kebab."
----NM
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Brian J Goggin
On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 20:05:31 GMT, po...@pygmaeus.orang.u-net.com (Mike
Page) wrote:
[...]
>Surely it must have been very heaven to dwell in the land of Saints
>and Scholars (not to be confused with religious fanatics and pedants)
Still is. Why, you might meet me in the streets ....
bjg
PS Bloomsday next week.
Mike Page
Fanatics, Pedants and aue Respected Regulars?
--
Mike Page
Let the ape escape for e-mail.
Mike Page
are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Indeed membership of all five
is a possibility.'
Brian J Goggin
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:18:11 -0700, Mike Page
<pa...@pbs.orang.port.ac.uk> wrote:
[...]
>Ah, but how should I distinguish among Saints, Scholars, Religious
>Fanatics, Pedants and aue Respected Regulars?
Well, you're OK with the Saints, Scholars and aue Respected Regulars.
You just need to be able to spot the Religious Fanatics and the
Pedants.
The Religious Fanatics are of two kinds:
- Catholics, distinguished by their rosary beads, illustrated
anti-abortion placards and colourful terminology. One of the more
prominent Fanatics said to her opponents "Get out of the way, ye
wife-swapping sodomites". Most Catholics are not Religious Fanatics
- Protestants, distinguished by their doctorates from obscure American
bible colleges, decorative sashes and colourful terminology: "Old
Red-socks", "devil's buttermilk" and so on. Many of them are afraid of
red-socks under the bed. Most Protestants are not Religious Fanatics.
You can be reasonably certain that most Religious Fanatics dislike the
Demon Drink. You can therefore ensure your safety by spending much
time in pubs. You may there, however, encounter the Pedants, whom you
will know by their letters to the *Irish Times*.
bjg
Brian J Goggin
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:28:14 -0700, Mike Page
<pa...@pbs.orang.port.ac.uk> wrote:
[...]
>> Ah, but how should I distinguish among Saints, Scholars, Religious
>> Fanatics, Pedants and aue Respected Regulars?
>>
>'As a mathematician,' added Pongo, 'I should mention that the categories
>are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Indeed membership of all five
>is a possibility.'
The set of Hibernian aue Respected Regulars is a small one. At the
moment, I think only three Irish people are posting at all regularly.
I am not a Religious Fanatic.
bjg
Mike Page
They all say that - but in your case I accept it. But what about the
rest? I guess we'll have to wait for your autohagiography.
a1a5...@bc.sympatico.ca
>
>You can be reasonably certain that most Religious Fanatics dislike the
>Demon Drink. You can therefore ensure your safety by spending much
>time in pubs. You may there, however, encounter the Pedants, whom you
>will know by their letters to the *Irish Times*.
>
This is very bad advice; especially for Northern Ireland and some
English cities
Brian J Goggin
We were, I think, discussing these matters in the context of a visit
to Ireland.
ObAUE: I found your use of the semi-colon interesting.
bjg
Peter Wright
In article <357e9939...@news2.cts.com>, Michael Cargal
<car...@cts.com> writes
>Another example of this is "beef kabob." "Shish" means "sword," and
>"kabob" means "lamb" so "shish kabob" is lamb on a sword. "Beef kabob"
>would be beef on a lamb.
>
A Hamburger is someone or something from Hamburg.
So where do beefburgers come from?
--
Peter Wright
Westwind Services
Edgmond, Shropshire E-mail: Pe...@westwind.demon.co.uk
Brian J Goggin
On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 22:01:58 +0100, Peter Wright
<Pe...@westwind.demon.co.uk> wrote:
[...]
>A Hamburger is someone or something from Hamburg.
>So where do beefburgers come from?
The Isle of Wight.
bjg
Truly Donovan
>A Hamburger is someone or something from Hamburg.
>So where do beefburgers come from?
There are no buffaloburgers in Buffalo. (Of course, they only have
those winged buffaloes; maybe they don't make good burgers.)
Lee Rudolph
b...@wordwrights.ie (Brian J Goggin) writes:
>I am not a Religious Fanatic.
But do you or do you not accent the first syllable of "fanatic"
in what W. B. Yeats (making, as some suspect, a brazen attempt
to cover up a flaw in his prosody) asserts somewhere to be the
Old Fashion?
Lee Rudolph
Brian J Goggin
On Sat, 13 Jun 1998 11:26:15 GMT, tru...@ibm.net (Truly Donovan)
wrote:
[...]
>There are no buffaloburgers in Buffalo. (Of course, they only have
>those winged buffaloes; maybe they don't make good burgers.)
The leading citizens might disagree.
bjg
Brian J Goggin
I do not. And I've never heard anyone else do it either.
Next time I'm in Drumcliff churchyard, I'll raise my hat once less
often than usual.
Unless, of course, I'm on a horse.
bjg
Lee Rudolph
b...@wordwrights.ie (Brian J Goggin) writes:
It seems to me from other threads that Truly has been more concerned,
lately, with the kerning citizens; but perhaps you have been reading
between the lines?
Lee Rudolph
Brian J Goggin
On 13 Jun 1998 20:09:22 -0400, lrud...@panix.com (Lee Rudolph) wrote:
[...]
>>The leading citizens might disagree.
>
>It seems to me from other threads that Truly has been more concerned,
>lately, with the kerning citizens; but perhaps you have been reading
>between the lines?
Sorry; I can't plead even that justification.
bjg
Dr. Peter Kittel
In article <zbbkjBAG...@westwind.demon.co.uk> Peter Wright <Pe...@westwind.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>A Hamburger is someone or something from Hamburg.
Sure. I lived there for some years and called myself one.
>So where do beefburgers come from?
You indirectly assume that there's no location called "Beefburg".
Does someone have a database with all town and village names on
earth? I wouldn't be too astonished to find such a name, there
exist so funny names in reality, you hardly believe it. I know
"Himmel" (heaven) and "Hoelle" (hell), only about a km apart near
Wilhelmshaven, Germany (and in some more places in Germany, too).
--
Best Regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // http://www.pios.de of PIOS
Private Site in Frankfurt, Germany \X/ office: peterk @ pios.de
a1a5...@bc.sympatico.ca
>The set of Hibernian aue Respected Regulars is a small one. At the
>moment, I think only three Irish people are posting at all regularly.
>
>I am not a Religious Fanatic.
>
Simon R. Hughes has left for the summer, hoping things will be
better when he returns, so you are spared his "slight snigger".
Not mine, though you are a lovely man.