distinct British terms for people
howard richler
negative ones) that are prevalent in Britain but not in North America.
Any suggestions aside from "yob," "laddish" and wanker?
Dylan Nicholson
news:feb755de.04071...@posting.google.com...
> I want to write an article about terms for people (particularly
> negative ones) that are prevalent in Britain but not in North America.
> Any suggestions aside from "yob," "laddish" and wanker?
At last count, there were approximately 3,428 webpages doing exactly what
you describe.
They are either written by Brits, and hence contain words/expressions that
are already well known in the US (and were probably invented there), or by
Yanks, and hence contain incorrect definitions of words/expressions, or
examples that fell out of use at least 53 years ago.
And I'm qualified to make the above statement as I am neither a Brit nor a
Yank.
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>I want to write an article about terms for people (particularly
>negative ones) that are prevalent in Britain but not in North America.
>Any suggestions aside from "yob," "laddish" and wanker?
Yank, Blair, and Tory.
Martin Ambuhl
I hadn't realized that yobs and wankers were prevalent in Britain but
not in North America. That explains why so many Brits are so prissy
about killing Iraqis (and getting Americans killed).
song
"howard richler" <hric...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:feb755de.04071...@posting.google.com...
> negative ones) that are prevalent in Britain but not in North America.
> Any suggestions aside from "yob," "laddish" and wanker?
Read some John Le Carré. Some of his angrier characters can really spew
them. His newer novels have less than the older ones. The Spy Who Came in
from the Cold, Our Game, The Night Manager come to mind. Many of his books
are available in audio form at local libraries. Just finished Absolute
Friends and The Constant Gardener (the latter soon to be made into a movie),
and I didn't notice as much name-calling that made me LOL.
Steve Hayes
Wally? Punter?
As Lotto takes over from horse-racing, I expect "punter" will take on its
current Brit meaning here too.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Donna Richoux
Qp10qp
>> negative ones) that are prevalent in Britain but not in North America.
>> Any suggestions aside from "yob," "laddish" and wanker?
I'm not well placed to know what people are called in America. I'll try
git
get
ha'porth
munta
minger
prune
dobber
gimp
prawn
drongo
twazzock
herbert
nause
pillock
twerp
chav
chavette
Essex girl
pasty basher
wurzel
oik
pikey
council
nob
chinless wonder
hoorah Henry
wide boy
gobshite
giblet
stud muffin
shag magnet
slag
slog (slag cum dog)
slosh
slapper
spanner
skanker
sick bird (complimentary)
coffin dodger
gadge
heller
shag buddy
lushbucket
bubbler
para
scally
mash head
mardy arsed cow
big Charlie Cheese
Charlie big potatoes
captain posho
fit
spacemonkey
clip
bonny lad/lass
geezer bird
geezer pleaser
shag dodger
pram face
hasbian
malteser
Steve Hayes
What's negative about "bloke"?
Donna Richoux
> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:33:37 +0200, tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) wrote:
>
> >howard richler <hric...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >
> >> I want to write an article about terms for people (particularly
> >> negative ones) that are prevalent in Britain but not in North America.
> >> Any suggestions aside from "yob," "laddish" and wanker?
> >
> >Bloke. Punter.
>
> What's negative about "bloke"?
Nothing. He didn't say they *had* to be negative, did he? That's how I
read the "particularly."
Steve Hayes
>>> I want to write an article about terms for people (particularly
>>> negative ones) that are prevalent in Britain but not in North America.
>>> Any suggestions aside from "yob," "laddish" and wanker?
>
>I'm not well placed to know what people are called in America. I'll try
>
>git
Did you mention prat?
mUs1Ka
> On 19 Jul 2004 15:48:37 GMT, qp1...@aol.com (Qp10qp) wrote:
>
>>>> I want to write an article about terms for people (particularly
>>>> negative ones) that are prevalent in Britain but not in North
>>>> America. Any suggestions aside from "yob," "laddish" and wanker?
>>
>> I'm not well placed to know what people are called in America. I'll
>> try
>>
>> git
>
> Did you mention prat?
No, I've killfiled him.
--
Ray
Django Cat
wrote:
> I want to write an article about terms for people (particularly
> negative ones) that are prevalent in Britain but not in North America.
> Any suggestions aside from "yob," "laddish" and wanker?
Some suggestions
pillock
prat
bint
boiler
bum bandit
bender
fuckwit
bollock brain
gobshite
plonker
scumbag
slapper
slag
mong
Thanks to the totally unreliable Roger's Profanisaurus at
http://www.viz.co.uk/profanisaurus/profanis.htm for some reminders...
then there's
twerp
twit
nutter...
DC
Sara Lorimer
> On 18 Jul 2004 16:23:09 -0700, howard richler <hric...@sympatico.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > I want to write an article about terms for people (particularly
> > negative ones) that are prevalent in Britain but not in North America.
> > Any suggestions aside from "yob," "laddish" and wanker?
>
> Some suggestions
>
> fuckwit
> scumbag
These two terms are not unusual here in the States.
--
SML
http://pirate-women.com
Qp10qp
>From: "mUs1Ka" mUs...@exite.com
>>> I'm not well placed to know what people are called in America. I'll
>>> try
>>>
>>> git
>>
>> Did you mention prat?
>
>No, I've killfiled him.
>--
>Ray
My words were British terms for British people. I meant by the above that I
don't know whether those words are also used in America.
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>On 18 Jul 2004 16:23:09 -0700, howard richler <hric...@sympatico.ca>
>wrote:
>
>> I want to write an article about terms for people (particularly
>> negative ones) that are prevalent in Britain but not in North America.
>> Any suggestions aside from "yob," "laddish" and wanker?
>
>Some suggestions
>
>pillock
>prat
>bint
>boiler
>bum bandit
>bender
>fuckwit
>bollock brain
>gobshite
It's very popular in Ireland. Do the British often use it?
>plonker
>scumbag
>slapper
>slag
>mong
Interesting words.
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
Scumbag, sure, but fuckwit? Not in M-W's Collegiate, I see.Then again,
I don't see it anywhere in the more-British-than-not OED. I think it
is a pretty unusual term anywhere, Sara. No?
--
Charles Riggs
Martin Ambuhl
> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:48:13 -0400, sl560_del...@columbia.edu
> (Sara Lorimer) wrote:
>
>>Django Cat wrote, in part:
>>>fuckwit
>>
>>>scumbag
>>
>>These two terms are not unusual here in the States.
>
>
> Scumbag, sure, but fuckwit? Not in M-W's Collegiate, I see.Then again,
> I don't see it anywhere in the more-British-than-not OED. I think it
> is a pretty unusual term anywhere, Sara. No?
Jonathon Green, who is usually good about providing regional labels,
provides none for "fuckwit." Of course he also forgets to include Jay
Stevens in the definition.
John Ayto provides no _current_ regional label, but tells us that it was
"Orig Australian."
Chapman's dictionary (ex-Wentworth & Flexner) has "Fuck-witted" as
American "by 1990s," but no "fuckwit" in sight.
Steve Hayes
Wight.
I mean, right.
mUs1Ka
>> Subject: Re: distinct British terms for people
>> From: "mUs1Ka" mUs...@exite.com
>
>>>> I'm not well placed to know what people are called in America. I'll
>>>> try
>>>>
>>>> git
>>>
>>> Did you mention prat?
>>
>> No, I've killfiled him.
>
> that I don't know whether those words are also used in America.
It was a joke; nothing to do with you.
--
Ray
Sara Lorimer
Hmmm. They both sound American -- or like terms Americans would use --
to me. I have nothing to back me up on this, I'll admit, and if other
Americans say they're unusual I'll go along with the crowd.
--
SML
http://pirate-women.com
R H Draney
>
>Jonathon Green, who is usually good about providing regional labels,
>provides none for "fuckwit." Of course he also forgets to include Jay
>Stevens in the definition.
>
>John Ayto provides no _current_ regional label, but tells us that it was
>"Orig Australian."
>
>Chapman's dictionary (ex-Wentworth & Flexner) has "Fuck-witted" as
>American "by 1990s," but no "fuckwit" in sight.
A few years ago I was subscribing to "Financial World" (or maybe it was
"Financial Week") magazine when they decided to streamline and change to the
initials...they promptly got a letter from a reader in Australia who pointed out
how silly the new title made them look....r
Tony Cooper
I very clearly remember being called a "fuckwit" by a very
American-type last week. I had opened my car door and inadvertently
cracked my door into the side of his pickup truck. He was large, the
prototype redneck laborer-type, and somehow not at all reminiscent of
the sort that would pick up British phrases. The other expressions he
used were definitely familiar American euphemisms for anatomically
impossible acts and improper family relationships.
Sara Lorimer
> "Sara Lorimer" <sl560_del...@columbia.edu> wrote in message
> news:1gh7sd0.jrwj8e1n2hh14N%sl560_del...@columbia.edu...
>
> http://pirate-women.com
>
> "A section at the back of this book on the "Classic Pirate Lifestyle"
> includes short descriptions of what life was like for women on pirate ships
> during the Golden Age -- the rules and regulations, punishments, victuals,
> fashion, and frigging."
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Really???
>
> Mike M
What part of "ishments, vi" do you doubt?
--
SML
http://pirate-women.com
Sara Lorimer
> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:49:02 -0400, sl560_del...@columbia.edu
> (Sara Lorimer) wrote:
>
> >> Scumbag, sure, but fuckwit? Not in M-W's Collegiate, I see.Then again,
> >> I don't see it anywhere in the more-British-than-not OED. I think it
> >> is a pretty unusual term anywhere, Sara. No?
> >
> >Hmmm. They both sound American -- or like terms Americans would use --
> >to me. I have nothing to back me up on this, I'll admit, and if other
> >Americans say they're unusual I'll go along with the crowd.
>
> I very clearly remember being called a "fuckwit" by a very
> American-type last week.
Yeah, that was me, sorry.
--
SML
http://pirate-women.com
Steve Hayes
It's pretty common in electronic forums, though. I've not seen it used
elsewhere. Same with "dipshit".
Qp10qp
>From: "mUs1Ka" mUs...@exite.com
>>>>> git
>>>>
>>>> Did you mention prat?
>>>
>>> No, I've killfiled him.
>>
>> My words were British terms for British people. I meant by the above
>> that I don't know whether those words are also used in America.
>
>It was a joke; nothing to do with you.
>
>--
>Ray
Phew.
Fuckwit is used in Britain now; but I daresay we picked it up from the
Americans.
mUs1Ka
>
> Fuckwit is used in Britain now; but I daresay we picked it up from the
> Americans.
I tend to agree.
--
Ray
Steve Hayes
As in de Klerk?
Tony Cooper
(Sara Lorimer) wrote:
>Tony Cooper wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 08:49:02 -0400, sl560_del...@columbia.edu
>> (Sara Lorimer) wrote:
>>
>> >> Scumbag, sure, but fuckwit? Not in M-W's Collegiate, I see.Then again,
>> >> I don't see it anywhere in the more-British-than-not OED. I think it
>> >> is a pretty unusual term anywhere, Sara. No?
>> >
>> >Hmmm. They both sound American -- or like terms Americans would use --
>> >to me. I have nothing to back me up on this, I'll admit, and if other
>> >Americans say they're unusual I'll go along with the crowd.
>>
>> I very clearly remember being called a "fuckwit" by a very
>> American-type last week.
>
>Yeah, that was me, sorry.
I'm sorry I had to leave so quickly. I meant to compliment you on
your tattoos.
Django Cat
Fair enough, I was going on guess work...
DC
Mike Lyle
The lower classes are _so_ narrow-minded and intolerant, aren't they?
But let's not forget that no less a personage than the
colossally-respected Hon. R. Lieblich Esq used 'fuckwit', propriâ
voce, in these very pages not a week gone.
Mike.
Django Cat
wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:34:34 +0100, Django Cat <nos...@please.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 18 Jul 2004 16:23:09 -0700, howard richler <hric...@sympatico.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I want to write an article about terms for people (particularly
>>> negative ones) that are prevalent in Britain but not in North America.
>>> Any suggestions aside from "yob," "laddish" and wanker?
>>
>> Some suggestions
>>
>> pillock
>> prat
>> bint
>> boiler
>> bum bandit
>> bender
>> fuckwit
>> bollock brain
>> gobshite
>
> It's very popular in Ireland. Do the British often use it?
>
It's not uncommon. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the 'shite'
pronunciation was originally Irish - it sounds Liverpudlian, and Liverpool
is the entrepot for a lot of creative Irish language. It's also funnier
than 'shit'
'Pillock' also sound Irish...
>> plonker
yet another 'penis' reference...
>> scumbag
not exclusively right-pond it seems...
>> slapper
a woman of easy virtue...
>> slag
I defined this to a class last week (they found it in 'The Sun'; I didn't
introduce it to them), as being an anti-female put down, but I was wrong -
guys can be slags too, especially in East End gangster flics..
>> mong
I was scraping the barrel with 'mong', but it was current when I was at
school in the 70s - extremely offensive and horrible, likening someone to
a person with Downs Syndrome - but the OP did ask.
>
> Interesting words.
>
Not forgetting 'berk'...
DC
Maria Conlon
Sara Lorimer wrote:
> Mike Mooney wrote:
> >
> > http://pirate-women.com
> >
> > "A section at the back of this book on the "Classic Pirate
Lifestyle"
> > includes short descriptions of what life was like for women on
pirate ships
> > during the Golden Age -- the rules and regulations, punishments,
victuals,
> > fashion, and frigging."
> >
^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > Really???
> >
> > Mike M
> What part of "ishments, vi" do you doubt?
How odd. On my copy, Mike's post had "gulations, punishme"
underlined. I wondered who "gulations" was.
Maria Conlon
(Yes, I know.)
Maria Conlon
Mike Lyle wrote:
> Tony Cooper wrote:
> > Sara Lorimer wrote:
>> > Charles Riggs wrote:
> colossally-respected Hon. R. Lieblich Esq used 'fuckwit', propriā
> voce, in these very pages not a week gone.
And at least a few times before that, too.
I've been hearing "fuckwit" (not directed at me, of course [at
least, I don't think so]) for several years now. This would be in
the US. Maybe Canada, but I wouldn't swear to that. I'm somewhat
surprised that Charles Riggs would find the term unusual. Perhaps
he's been away too long, losing touch with BrE and AmE usage in
general, though you'd think that aue would remedy that.
"Scumbag" has been around (in the US) for ages, but I don't think
anyone's questioning that one.
Maria Conlon
Dr Robin Bignall
Were they showing? She must have been wearing a really heavy tool belt.
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Hertfordshire
England
Maria Conlon
Steve Hayes wrote [re "fuckwit"]:
> It's pretty common in electronic forums, though. I've not seen it
used
> elsewhere. Same with "dipshit".
Here[1], "dipshit" has been common in spoken (or, to be more
precise, shouted) communications for at least 10 years. It followed
"dipstick" (as an insulting thing to call someone) fairly closely. I
think it was created from "dipstick." What else would it have been
created from?
As implied in another post of mine in this thread, "fuckwit" is not
unknown or new to me, either.
[1] Southeast Michigan, USA.
Maria Conlon
Judyann Furth
class in the Baltimore Metro area for at least 40 years --- I have
called my sister a 'dipshit' since I was 10. Scumbag is also in my
vocabulary. But it seems around here we don't use "fuckwit" --it's
"fuckwad" the way I have always heard it.
Jude
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Here[1], "dipshit" has been common in spoken (or, to be more
> precise, shouted) communications for at least 10 years. It followed
> "dipstick" (as an insulting thing to call someone) fairly closely. I
> think it was created from "dipstick." What else would it have been
> created from?
I always assumed that it went the other way, with "dipstick" being a
minced oath. "Dipstick" was old enough and unobjectionable enough to
have been used regularly in the TV show _The Dukes of Hazzard_ in
1979. The oldest hit for "dipshit" on Amazon appears to be from Jim
Harrison's _Legends of the Fall_ (1979), which talks about "dipshit
English girls". Possibly most interestingly, it's in _The Book of the
Subgenius_ (1983).
As to where it came from, I always presumed it was somehow related to
the expression of astonishment "I will be dipped in shit".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Usenet is like Tetris for people
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |who still remember how to read.
Palo Alto, CA 94304
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
John Dean
Partridge and Sheidlower both locate its origin in Australia. Partridge
thinks from the 1940s, Sheidlower's earliest cite is 1968 from
Australian playwright Alexander Buzo. It appears (as fuckwitted) in the
Australian National Dictionary in 1973. Will Self uses it in Esquire
1995. Fuckwittery and fuckwittage followed on.
--
John Dean
Oxford
Steve Hayes
>On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 22:47:53 -0400, Tony Cooper
>>Yank, Blair, and Tory.
>
>Are synonyms permitted? If not, you just repeated two of the above.
Blair, Leon and Yengeni.
Maria Conlon
Evan Kirshenbaum wrote [re "dipshit"]:
> As to where it came from, I always presumed it was somehow related
to
> the expression of astonishment "I will be dipped in shit".
I think you, or possibly someone else, mentioned the "dipped in
shit" expression not long ago -- and that was the first time I'd
ever heard it.
That would, most likely, be why I've never connected the expression
to the term "dipshit." :-)
The "dipstick" > "dipshit" idea may simply be the result of hearing
one (as an insult) and then the other fairly soon after.
By the way: Has some form of "stick shift" become an insult? Or even
a play on words of some sort? I mean, we all know about "parking
lot," right? ("I'd sure like to park in *your* lot, heh, heh, heh.")
And what about "keyless entry"? Anything going on there?
Getting silly now,
Maria Conlon
Skitt
> Evan Kirshenbaum wrote [re "dipshit"]:
>> As to where it came from, I always presumed it was somehow related to
>> the expression of astonishment "I will be dipped in shit".
>
> I think you, or possibly someone else, mentioned the "dipped in
> shit" expression not long ago -- and that was the first time I'd
> ever heard it.
Hmm. Seems like I've heard it many times before, but I can't remember where
or when.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
Charles Riggs
<mariaco...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I've been hearing "fuckwit" (not directed at me, of course [at
>least, I don't think so]) for several years now. This would be in
>the US. Maybe Canada, but I wouldn't swear to that. I'm somewhat
>surprised that Charles Riggs would find the term unusual.
Relatively unusual, yes. A curse word one could go six months without
hearing, if that helps with what I mean by 'unusual'.
> Perhaps
>he's been away too long, losing touch with BrE and AmE usage in
>general, though you'd think that aue would remedy that.
I won't take that insult lying down. I am not out of touch with either
British or American English, having spent many years in America,
returning at times, viewing Americanisms in print daily to some
length, watching films -- many languages represented by them, which
you can't say for culturally-deprived America -- and other TV, reading
a number of Irish and British publications, and hearing British
English, as well as Hiberno-English, every day of the week. It's you
who might well be called insular, but not me, babe.
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 07:56:48 +0100, Charles Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
>wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 21:34:34 +0100, Django Cat <nos...@please.com>
>> wrote:
>>>> I want to write an article about terms for people (particularly
>>>> negative ones) that are prevalent in Britain but not in North America.
>>>> Any suggestions aside from "yob," "laddish" and wanker?
>>>
>>> Some suggestions
...
>>> gobshite
>>
>> It's very popular in Ireland. Do the British often use it?
>>
>It's not uncommon. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the 'shite'
>pronunciation was originally Irish - it sounds Liverpudlian, and Liverpool
>is the entrepot for a lot of creative Irish language. It's also funnier
>than 'shit'
I like the word too and have become accustomed to it, now that I hear
it at least once a week. Still, I can't get around to saying 'No
shite'. That version simply doesn't work for me, not that I often hear
it. 'No shit' is very popular in America though, as I'm sure you know.
Where do you live, Cat?
--
Charles Riggs
mUs1Ka
Yeah, I read something about that, earlier. I'm not disputing its origin,
but believe that we "picked it up" from U.S. usage.
--
Ray
Maria Conlon
> Maria Conlon wrote:
>>
>> I've been hearing "fuckwit" (not directed at me, of course [at
>> least, I don't think so]) for several years now. This would be in
>> the US. Maybe Canada, but I wouldn't swear to that. I'm somewhat
>> surprised that Charles Riggs would find the term unusual.
>
> Relatively unusual, yes. A curse word one could go six months
without
> hearing, if that helps with what I mean by 'unusual'.
Must one hear it -- rather than read it -- for it not to be unusual?
That is, if you were to see it in writing, would that count as an
occurrence?
In any case, I think it's become somewhat common, but that could be
"regional," as they say.
>
>> Perhaps
>> he's been away too long, losing touch with BrE and AmE usage in
>> general, though you'd think that aue would remedy that.
>
> I won't take that insult lying down.
You don't have to. But you might consider the idea that you probably
don't hear what's current in AmE and BrE as often as people in
America and England do. (It's my feeling that television and movies
do not completely replicate presence.)
And I wouldn't call my remark an "insult" so much as a bit of
teasing, knowing it would rile you. So I'll apologize for teasing
you, if you like.
>......I am not out of touch with either
> British or American English, having spent many years in America,
> returning at times, viewing Americanisms in print daily to some
> length, watching films -- many languages represented by them,
which
> you can't say for culturally-deprived America -- and other TV,
reading
> a number of Irish and British publications, and hearing British
> English, as well as Hiberno-English, every day of the week. It's
you
> who might well be called insular, but not me, babe.
No, I was "sheltered" earlier in life, but that term doesn't fit me
now, and neither does "insular." I have, after all, been exposed to
Life in General (not to mention aue).
("Babe"? As in "a babe in the woods"? As in Paul Bunyan's Blue Ox?
Either way, should I consider your calling me "babe" an insult?)
Maria Conlon
I'm not accepting insults today. It's too much trouble.
Mike Lyle
Not 'was', Maria, but 'were'. St Paul wrote them a letter.
Mike.
Maria Conlon
> Hmm. Seems like I've heard it many times before, but I can't
> remember where or when.
Are the clothes you're wearing the clothes you wore then?
You know, some things that happened for the first time seem to be
happening again...
Maria Conlon
Don't ask what I mean. I seldom know for sure.
Maria Conlon
> Maria Conlon wrote
>> Sara Lorimer wrote:
>>> Mike Mooney wrote:
>>>> Sara Lorimer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://pirate-women.com
>>>>
>>>> "A section at the back of this book on the "Classic Pirate
>> Lifestyle"
>>>> includes short descriptions of what life was like for women on
>> pirate ships
>>>> during the Golden Age -- the rules and regulations,
punishments,
>> victuals,
>>>> fashion, and frigging."
>>>>
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>>
>>>> Really???
>>>>
>>>> Mike M
>>
>>> What part of "ishments, vi" do you doubt?
>>
>> How odd. On my copy, Mike's post had "gulations, punishme"
>> underlined. I wondered who "gulations" was.
>
> Not 'was', Maria, but 'were'. St Paul wrote them a letter.
<laugh>
Even so, a final 's' does not always indicate a plural. Ask Frances.
Ask
Charles. Heck, ask Liebs.
Maria Conlon
*Steel*: I like to think that a person's name says a lot about the
type of person he is. What was your name again?
*Les*, after a pause: Les.
(From "WKRP in Cincinnati" "Les" is pronounced "Less.")
Django Cat
wrote:
And Australia...
>
> Where do you live, Cat?
>
In a village on the edge of the Peak District about 15 miles out of
Central Manchester (UK). You're an exiled USan in Ireland, right? Dublin?
Cheers
DC
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>In a village on the edge of the Peak District about 15 miles out of
>Central Manchester (UK). You're an exiled USan in Ireland, right? Dublin?
Other side of the island. I would say "other coast", but Charles
insists that Castlebar is too far inland to be considered on the
coast. It annoys him if I say that.
He lives on the other coast.
Dylan Nicholson
Skitt
> "Tony Cooper" wrote:
>> Django Cat wrote:
>>> In a village on the edge of the Peak District about 15 miles out of
>>> Central Manchester (UK). You're an exiled USan in Ireland, right?
>>> Dublin?
>>
>> Other side of the island. I would say "other coast", but Charles
>> insists that Castlebar is too far inland to be considered on the
>> coast. It annoys him if I say that.
>>
> Isn't that your raison d'etre?
I was wondering -- how far inland is Castlebar? Looks like only 25 miles,
or so.
http://homepage.eircom.net/~mhambly/MayoMap.gif
(I estimated the distance from a map that showed a scale.)
Dylan Nicholson
news:2m8c94F...@uni-berlin.de...
>
> I was wondering -- how far inland is Castlebar? Looks like only 25 miles,
> or so.
>
only a few hundred miles across). I live about 10 km or so from the coast
on an island a couple of thousand km across, and don't consider myself to be
living on the coast per se (although Melbourne is surely a coastal city -
just not the particular suburb I live in).
Skitt
> "Skitt" wrote:
>> I was wondering -- how far inland is Castlebar? Looks like only 25
>> miles, or so.
>>
> If it were, I would agree that is barely coastal (especially on an
> island only a few hundred miles across). I live about 10 km or so
> from the coast on an island a couple of thousand km across, and don't
> consider myself to be living on the coast per se (although Melbourne
> is surely a coastal city - just not the particular suburb I live in).
I live on the West Coast, but the nearest ocean shoreline is 25 miles away,
as the crow flies. By road it is quite a bit farther. Even the San
Francisco Bay is between me and the ocean. It's all in how one looks at it.
Tony Cooper
I don't know how the terms are used in Oz, but here we speak about
people living on the East Coast or the West Coast even though they
live inland by a considerable distance. Anyone living in California,
for example, can be said to "live on the West Coast". The further
you are from the other coast, the more vague the term becomes about
the other coast. A person living in Nevada might be referred to as
living on the West Coast to an East Coaster. The East Coast doesn't
go as far inland, though.
There is no North Coast, and really no South Coast even though there
are southern cities that are on a coast. Mobile, Alabama is
recognized as a seaport, but I've never heard of anyone saying it's on
the South Coast.
Florida is not said to be on the South Coast, but we have an East
Coast and a West Coast. No South Coast, though, although Key West is
the southernmost city in the US and on the water.
I once said that Castlebar was on the West Coast of Ireland, and it
upset Charles (thus confirming my reason to exist). I suppose Ireland
is too small to have a West Coast that includes non-coastal cities.
The West of Ireland would probably be a better term. Since we don't
say "The West of America", the phrase didn't come to my mind.
It's all very complicated.
Tony Cooper
Not completely. There are others that I like to annoy. Not that I
don't enjoy annoying him, you understand. I suspect he enjoys the
attention.
Dylan Nicholson
> On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 09:32:33 +1000, "Dylan Nicholson"
> <wizo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >If it were, I would agree that is barely coastal (especially on an island
> >only a few hundred miles across). I live about 10 km or so from the
coast
> >on an island a couple of thousand km across, and don't consider myself to
be
> >living on the coast per se (although Melbourne is surely a coastal city -
> >just not the particular suburb I live in).
> >
> I don't know how the terms are used in Oz, but here we speak about
> people living on the East Coast or the West Coast even though they
> live inland by a considerable distance.
Yes I was well aware of that usage. Is has some currency here, but there
are so few people on our "west coast" that they relatively rarely come up as
useful distinctions.
I think also the reason I wouldn't say I personally live "on the coast per
se" is because almost the entire population of Australia does live "on the
coast" (within 20 or 30 km of). So if you actually bother saying to someone
"I live on the coast", that would probably indicate something very close to
the shoreline (probably less than a kilometre or so). But there are plenty
of exceptions I'm sure.
Mark Raymond
> On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:48:13 -0400, sl560_del...@columbia.edu
> (Sara Lorimer) wrote:
>
> >Django Cat wrote, in part:
> >
> >> On 18 Jul 2004 16:23:09 -0700, howard richler <hric...@sympatico.ca>
> >>
> >> > I want to write an article about terms for people (particularly
> >> > negative ones) that are prevalent in Britain but not in North America.
> >> > Any suggestions aside from "yob," "laddish" and wanker?
> >>
> >> Some suggestions
> >>
>
> >> scumbag
> >
> >These two terms are not unusual here in the States.
>
> Scumbag, sure, but fuckwit? Not in M-W's Collegiate, I see.Then again,
> I don't see it anywhere in the more-British-than-not OED. I think it
> is a pretty unusual term anywhere, Sara. No?
Having read the entire thread (well, that which is available to me at
this point in time), I note a paucity of responses from native Strine
speakers. Given that we are accused of inventing the F-wit term, I
thought I'd give you my take.
This term - often politely reduced to "F-wit", as above - was one of
the most common insults in the vocabulary of my good self, and those
with whom I associated, from a very early age ... which puts my own
usage back to about 32 years ago. Its popularity was due to its rank
(#1) as the most offensive term usable. Second was (I think)
"dickhead".
Mark@work
R J Valentine
...
} Florida is not said to be on the South Coast, but we have an East
} Coast and a West Coast. No South Coast, though, although Key West is
} the southernmost city in the US and on the water.
If you ignore every single city in Hawaii, that is.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:r...@smart.net>
Tony Cooper
wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:11:45 -0400 Tony Cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>...
>} Florida is not said to be on the South Coast, but we have an East
>} Coast and a West Coast. No South Coast, though, although Key West is
>} the southernmost city in the US and on the water.
>
>If you ignore every single city in Hawaii, that is.
You know, I've done this before. Next time I say something about Key
West I'll have to play Sinatra singing
You'll find while you're dancin?
That there?s a rhythm in your heart and soul
A certain rhythm that you can't control
And you will do the continental all the time
Beautiful music
Dangerous rhythm
The continental
Charles Riggs
<mariaco...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Mike Lyle wrote:
>> Maria Conlon wrote
>>> How odd. On my copy, Mike's post had "gulations, punishme"
>>> underlined. I wondered who "gulations" was.
>>
>> Not 'was', Maria, but 'were'. St Paul wrote them a letter.
>
><laugh>
>
>Even so, a final 's' does not always indicate a plural.
'Course it does.
>Ask Frances.
Two tits.
>Ask
>Charles.
Two balls.
>Heck, ask Liebs.
Lawyers will take either of two positions.
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<mariaco...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Charles Riggs wrote:
>> Maria Conlon wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps
>>> he's been away too long, losing touch with BrE and AmE usage in
>>> general, though you'd think that aue would remedy that.
>>
>> I won't take that insult lying down.
>
>You don't have to. But you might consider the idea that you probably
>don't hear what's current in AmE and BrE as often as people in
>America and England do. (It's my feeling that television and movies
>do not completely replicate presence.)
I don't know where you got the wild notion you hear more British
English in narrow-minded, middle of nowhere Michigan than I do, next
door to the UK as I am. Been to Britain itself, have you?
>And I wouldn't call my remark an "insult" so much as a bit of
>teasing, knowing it would rile you. So I'll apologize for teasing
>you, if you like.
To claim a person is out of touch with his own language is highly
insulting, no matter who the person might be. Our language is what
separates us from the apes. In effect, you called me an ape.
>>It's you who might well be called insular, but not me, babe.
>
>No, I was "sheltered" earlier in life, but that term doesn't fit me
>now, and neither does "insular." I have, after all, been exposed to
>Life in General (not to mention aue).
Please tell us again about your latest trips to Europe, Canada, and
the Far East: perhaps I missed something. Tell us, too, you're not a
Patriot -- please note the big P -- all patriots being insular by
definition of the word.
>("Babe"? As in "a babe in the woods"? As in Paul Bunyan's Blue Ox?
>Either way, should I consider your calling me "babe" an insult?)
Does 'No, not me, babe' ring a bell? I know Cher's a Democrat, but you
might have listened to her once or twice anyway.
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:31:51 +0100, Charles Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
>wrote:
>> Where do you live, Cat?
>
>In a village on the edge of the Peak District about 15 miles out of
>Central Manchester (UK).
I plan to visit Manchester one of these days: a hop, skip, and a jump,
so I have no excuse not to.
> You're an exiled USan in Ireland, right?
I'm away from America for now by choice. Once Bush is gone, I may try
New York for a while, assuming I inherit a million or two. As in,
except for a visit or two, I can forget NYC.
>Dublin?
I'm a wannabe Dub living in County Mayo. I lived in South Dublin for
two years, back when the monthly rents could be expressed in three
figures. Barring Dublin, France or England might be next, although
Castlebar is not the worst, as the expression goes.
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:50:19 +0100, Django Cat <nos...@please.com>
>wrote:
>
>>In a village on the edge of the Peak District about 15 miles out of
>>Central Manchester (UK). You're an exiled USan in Ireland, right? Dublin?
>
>Other side of the island. I would say "other coast", but Charles
>insists that Castlebar is too far inland to be considered on the
>coast.
We're in West Ireland, but a map of the country, if you own one, will
show we're not on the coast.
>It annoys him if I say that.
On the contrary. The more mistakes you make, the better my case.
Happily, you see to it that my case improves by the day, if not by the
moment.
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>Dylan Nicholson wrote:
>> "Tony Cooper" wrote:
>>> Django Cat wrote:
>
>>>> In a village on the edge of the Peak District about 15 miles out of
>>>> Central Manchester (UK). You're an exiled USan in Ireland, right?
>>>> Dublin?
>>>
>>> Other side of the island. I would say "other coast", but Charles
>>> insists that Castlebar is too far inland to be considered on the
>>> coast. It annoys him if I say that.
>>>
>> Isn't that your raison d'etre?
>
>I was wondering -- how far inland is Castlebar? Looks like only 25 miles,
>or so.
About 25 miles to the Atlantic beaches of Louisburgh and even closer
to Clew Bay: the famous bay containing precisely 365 islands. But 25
miles in tiny Ireland is a far greater distance than in huge America.
Cities and towns said to be 'on the coast' in America can be much
further away from the ocean than those here. I know our expert on
geography, Professor Fontana, agrees with me on this. One thread, not
unsurprisingly, went on and on about the relevant details to be
considered.
--
Charles Riggs
Maria Conlon
> Maria Conlon wrote:
>> Charles Riggs wrote:
>>> Maria Conlon wrote:
>>>
>>>> Perhaps
>>>> he's been away too long, losing touch with BrE and AmE usage in
>>>> general, though you'd think that aue would remedy that.
>>>
>>> I won't take that insult lying down.
>>
>> You don't have to. But you might consider the idea that you
probably
>> don't hear what's current in AmE and BrE as often as people in
>> America and England do. (It's my feeling that television and
movies
>> do not completely replicate presence.)
>
> I don't know where you got the wild notion you hear more British
> English in narrow-minded, middle of nowhere Michigan than I do,
next
> door to the UK as I am. Been to Britain itself, have you?
Please read my paragraph again. "AmE" relates to "America"; "BrE"
relates to "England." You may quibble that that's not clear, but I
would quibble right back that you should have figured it out. And
where did you get the idea that Michigan is in the middle of
nowhere, and narrow-minded to boot? Live here long, did you?
>
>> And I wouldn't call my remark an "insult" so much as a bit of
>> teasing, knowing it would rile you. So I'll apologize for teasing
>> you, if you like.
>
> To claim a person is out of touch with his own language is highly
> insulting, no matter who the person might be. Our language is what
> separates us from the apes. In effect, you called me an ape.
I did? Hmm. I must be better at calling names than I thought. "Ape"
is rather good, no?
>
>>> It's you who might well be called insular, but not me, babe.
>>
>> No, I was "sheltered" earlier in life, but that term doesn't fit
me
>> now, and neither does "insular." I have, after all, been exposed
to
>> Life in General (not to mention aue).
>
> Please tell us again about your latest trips to Europe, Canada,
and
> the Far East: perhaps I missed something.
Yes, perhaps you did.
>.....Tell us, too, you're not a
> Patriot -- please note the big P -- all patriots being insular by
> definition of the word.
Certainly, I'm a patriot. I'm patriotic. I like and support the
country I live in. If that's automatically "insular," then a whole
lot of people in a whole lot of countries are "insular."
The capital P has to go, though -- except for certain New England
football players. Of which I am not one.
>
>> ("Babe"? As in "a babe in the woods"? As in Paul Bunyan's Blue
Ox?
>> Either way, should I consider your calling me "babe" an insult?)
>
> Does 'No, not me, babe' ring a bell? I know Cher's a Democrat, but
you
> might have listened to her once or twice anyway.
I know the song by Sonny & Cher. I used to watch them on TV, too. I
didn't think "no, not me, babe" was the name of the song or even
part of the lyrics. ICBW. YCBT.
Maria Conlon
DC-bound in a few hours...
Peter Krynicki
Or ...
Key West Intermezzo (I Saw You First)
John Mellencamp
Album: Mr. Happy Go Lucky
In a hand painted night, me and Gypsy Scotty are partners
At the Hotel Flamingo, wearing black market shoes
This loud Cuban band is crucifying John Lennon
No one wants to be lonely, no one wants to sing the blues
She's perched like a parrot on his tuxedo shoulder
Christ, what's she doing with him
She could be dancing with me
She stirs the ice in the glass with her elegant finger
I want to be what she's drinking, yeah, I just want to be
1-I saw you first, I'm the first one tonight
I saw you first, don't that give me the right
To move around in your heart
Everyone was looking
But I saw you first
On a moon spattered road in her parrot rebozo
Gypsy Scotty is driving his big long yellow car
She flies like a bird over his shoulder
She whispers in his ear, boy, you are my star
(repeat 1)
In the bone colored dawn, me and Gypsy Scotty are singin'
The radio is playing, she left her shoes out in the rain
He tells me a story about some girl he knows in Kentucky
He just made that story up, there ain't no girl like that
(repeat 1)
But I saw you first
Yeah, yeah, yeah
John Dawkins
"Mike Mooney" <m.j.m...@bradford.ac.uk> wrote:
> "R J Valentine" <r...@smart.net> wrote in message
> news:10fuemv...@corp.supernews.com...
> > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:11:45 -0400 Tony Cooper
> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > ...
> > } Florida is not said to be on the South Coast, but we have an East
> > } Coast and a West Coast. No South Coast, though, although Key West is
> > } the southernmost city in the US and on the water.
> >
> > If you ignore every single city in Hawaii, that is.
> >
>
> One thing about the U.S. has always puzzled me - why is Texas so often
> referred as being in "The West"? Or even "The Southwest"? Looking at a map
> of the the U.S.A. I can't see Texas as being anywhere except the southeast.
Yeah, and why was Indiana of all places part of the Old Northwest?
--
J.
Django Cat
wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:50:19 +0100, Django Cat <nos...@please.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:31:51 +0100, Charles Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
>> wrote:
>
>>> Where do you live, Cat?
>>
>> In a village on the edge of the Peak District about 15 miles out of
>> Central Manchester (UK).
>
> I plan to visit Manchester one of these days: a hop, skip, and a jump,
> so I have no excuse not to.
>
Dublin to Manc by train and Seacat is cheap and fast, but having driven
down to Kerry about six weeks ago, I know the first stage of your
journey's going to take longer. (Though there's cheap direct flights from
Galway and Knock).
Post when you're coming and we'll do the beer thing.
>> You're an exiled USan in Ireland, right?
>
> I'm away from America for now by choice. Once Bush is gone, I may try
> New York for a while, assuming I inherit a million or two. As in,
> except for a visit or two, I can forget NYC.
>
>> Dublin?
>
> I'm a wannabe Dub living in County Mayo. I lived in South Dublin for
> two years, back when the monthly rents could be expressed in three
> figures. Barring Dublin, France or England might be next, although
> Castlebar is not the worst, as the expression goes.
>
The trip to Kerry was my first real visit to Ireland, apart from trips to
Dublin and Belfast. A very civilised place to live in all sorts of ways.
I spend a lot of time up on the West Coast of Scotland (ie within 10 miles
of the sea qv); West Ireland struck me as having everything I like about
Scotland only more so. And warmer.
DC
Don Aitken
wrote:
History. When the US stopped at the Mississippi, everything NW of the
Ohio was "the Northwest Territory", naturally enough. After the
Louisiana Purchase, that area was called the Old Northwest, because
"the West" now meant everything west of the Mississippi - a usage
which still current, otherwise all those Westerns would have to be
renamed "Middlings".
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being
read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com".
R H Draney
>
>Charles Riggs wrote:
>>
>> Does 'No, not me, babe' ring a bell? I know Cher's a Democrat, but
>you
>> might have listened to her once or twice anyway.
>
>I know the song by Sonny & Cher. I used to watch them on TV, too. I
>didn't think "no, not me, babe" was the name of the song or even
>part of the lyrics. ICBW. YCBT.
Closer to Dylan and the Turtles than to Sonny & Cher....r
Charles Riggs
<mariaco...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Charles Riggs wrote:
>> Maria Conlon wrote:
>> I don't know where you got the wild notion you hear more British
>> English in narrow-minded, middle of nowhere Michigan than I do,
>next
>> door to the UK as I am. Been to Britain itself, have you?
>
>Please read my paragraph again.
OK. You wrote 'But you might consider the idea that you probably don't
hear what's current in AmE and BrE as often as people in
America and England do.'
Since you're an America-bound American, the clear implication was that
you hear more BrE than I do. That, of course, is nonsense. Aside from
considering the several Britons I talk with every week -- naturally
enough since Britain is a short distance away, plus a number of
Britons make their home here -- consider that the Irish themselves
speak BrE. Hiberno-English too, but you'd be less familiar with that.
>"AmE" relates to "America"; "BrE"
>relates to "England."
More precisely and correctly, AmE means American English, if there is
such a thing, and BrE means British English, if that can be defined,
not specifically the English spoken in England, whatever meaning that
has.
Most all AUE regulars know these nuances, but they remain handy terms
nonetheless.
>You may quibble...
I never quibble.
> And
>where did you get the idea that Michigan is in the middle of
>nowhere, and narrow-minded to boot?
Most people would be unable to find it on a map; I suspect very few
have tried. True for the named craters on a moon map, as well. I
suppose that's a bit narrow minded too, but at least most of them
realise America is not the centre of the universe as all
Michigansmonians outside the Chicago area believe in their heart of
hearts.
>Live here long, did you?
Excepting Chicago, I'd rather live on the moon. Perhaps including
Chicago, now that I think more about it.
>>> And I wouldn't call my remark an "insult" so much as a bit of
>>> teasing, knowing it would rile you. So I'll apologize for teasing
>>> you, if you like.
>>
>> To claim a person is out of touch with his own language is highly
>> insulting, no matter who the person might be. Our language is what
>> separates us from the apes. In effect, you called me an ape.
>
>I did? Hmm. I must be better at calling names than I thought.
Better if you'd said it, rather than implied it. I call a spade a
spade...you?
> "Ape"
>is rather good, no?
If you had said it.
>> Please tell us again about your latest trips to Europe, Canada,
>and
>> the Far East: perhaps I missed something.
>
>Yes, perhaps you did.
Then you're claiming you've been outside the confines of North
America? Pray tell. As I said, perhaps I missed something.
>>.....Tell us, too, you're not a
>> Patriot -- please note the big P -- all patriots being insular by
>> definition of the word.
>
>Certainly, I'm a patriot. I'm patriotic. I like and support the
>country I live in. If that's automatically "insular," then a whole
>lot of people in a whole lot of countries are "insular."
Sadly enough, that is true. Patriots and nationalists cause many of
the world's problems. They always have, and people not enlightened to
the universality of Man always will.
>The capital P has to go, though -- except for certain New England
>football players. Of which I am not one.
If not a fan of them though, that's your loss.
>>> ("Babe"? As in "a babe in the woods"? As in Paul Bunyan's Blue
>Ox?
>>> Either way, should I consider your calling me "babe" an insult?)
>>
>> Does 'No, not me, babe' ring a bell? I know Cher's a Democrat, but
>you
>> might have listened to her once or twice anyway.
>
>I know the song by Sonny & Cher. I used to watch them on TV, too. I
>didn't think "no, not me, babe" was the name of the song or even
>part of the lyrics.
As Cher would say, I could care less.
> ICBW. YCBT.
Gobbledygook
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
Dylan is my main man, my principal influence during the 60s and often
afterwards. Sonny & Cher I can live without.
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
<m.j.m...@bradford.ac.uk> wrote:
>"R J Valentine" <r...@smart.net> wrote in message
>news:10fuemv...@corp.supernews.com...
>> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 20:11:45 -0400 Tony Cooper
><tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> ...
>> } Florida is not said to be on the South Coast, but we have an East
>> } Coast and a West Coast. No South Coast, though, although Key West is
>> } the southernmost city in the US and on the water.
>>
>> If you ignore every single city in Hawaii, that is.
>>
>
>One thing about the U.S. has always puzzled me - why is Texas so often
>referred as being in "The West"? Or even "The Southwest"? Looking at a map
>of the the U.S.A. I can't see Texas as being anywhere except the southeast.
A large number of dumb cowboys -- thinking of you, George W -- live in
Texas, some not-so-dumb ones too. Texas, therefore, is part of The
West.
To hear Texans tell it though, Texas is America. Been there: second
worse state in the country, unless you love Machomen, is what it
actually is. IMO.
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:29:14 +0100, Charles Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
>wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 22:50:19 +0100, Django Cat <nos...@please.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 09:31:51 +0100, Charles Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Where do you live, Cat?
>>>
>>> In a village on the edge of the Peak District about 15 miles out of
>>> Central Manchester (UK).
>>
>> I plan to visit Manchester one of these days: a hop, skip, and a jump,
>> so I have no excuse not to.
>>
>Dublin to Manc by train and Seacat is cheap and fast, but having driven
>down to Kerry about six weeks ago, I know the first stage of your
>journey's going to take longer. (Though there's cheap direct flights from
>Galway and Knock).
I'd be taking the train from Castlebar to Dublin, then flying or
taking the ferry, I don't know which. I'd much prefer the boat method;
seeing you say the connections are good, that's probably the way I'll
go.
>Post when you're coming and we'll do the beer thing.
I'll do that.
>>> Dublin?
>>
>> I'm a wannabe Dub living in County Mayo. I lived in South Dublin for
>> two years, back when the monthly rents could be expressed in three
>> figures. Barring Dublin, France or England might be next, although
>> Castlebar is not the worst, as the expression goes.
>>
>The trip to Kerry was my first real visit to Ireland, apart from trips to
>Dublin and Belfast. A very civilised place to live in all sorts of ways.
>I spend a lot of time up on the West Coast of Scotland (ie within 10 miles
>of the sea qv); West Ireland struck me as having everything I like about
>Scotland only more so. And warmer.
You're my kinda man, Cat. I like Scotland, from what I've seen of it,
very much too. I nearly moved to Edinburgh, chatting with Chris M
while there, during the Irish mail strike, not knowing how long it'd
continue or if there'd be more, as threatened. Without a paycheck, I'm
lost in the wilds.
--
Charles Riggs
Qp10qp
>>referred as being in "The West"? Or even "The Southwest"? Looking at a map
>>of the the U.S.A. I can't see Texas as being anywhere except the southeast.
I remember being puzzled about the Texas blues. It seemed to me odd that a
place like Texas should be part of the great early blues tradition, but then I
looked at a map and saw that it's geographically in the same zone as St Louis.
It all made sense, then.
Qp10qp
>From: Charles Riggs chr...@eircom.net
>
>To hear Texans tell it though, Texas is America. Been there: second
>worse state in the country, unless you love Machomen, is what it
>actually is. IMO.
Charles Bukowski used to prefer Texan women above all others. But that was a
while ago.
Peasemarch.
Harvey Van Sickle
>>>> Other side of the island. I would say "other coast", but
>>>> Charles insists that Castlebar is too far inland to be
>>>> considered on the coast. It annoys him if I say that.
-snip-
>> I was wondering -- how far inland is Castlebar? Looks like only
>> 25 miles, or so.
> About 25 miles to the Atlantic beaches of Louisburgh and even
> closer to Clew Bay:
I agree entirely that in rightpondian usage, that's not "on the coast":
if it was, one would have to consider, say, Winchester and Canterbury
as "on the English coast".
Which they aren't.
--
Cheers, Harvey
Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to harvey.van)
Dylan Nicholson
>
> Dylan is my main man,
Why thank you Charles.
> my principal influence during the 60s
Um...what? Oh...never mind. Wasn't alive then.
Mike Lyle
[...]
> A large number of dumb cowboys -- thinking of you, George W -- live in
> Texas, some not-so-dumb ones too. Texas, therefore, is part of The
> West.
>
> To hear Texans tell it though, Texas is America. Been there: second
> worse state in the country, unless you love Machomen, is what it
> actually is. IMO.
You see their _libraries_? When I was a graduate student at WV Anabaptist...
Mike.
Charles Riggs
I hold nothing against Texan women, Albert.
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
wrote:
That, I'm afraid, went Whoosh! over my nearly bald head.
--
Charles Riggs
Theodore Heise
Maria Conlon <mariaco...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Evan Kirshenbaum wrote [re "dipshit"]:
>
>> As to where it came from, I always presumed it was somehow related
> to
>> the expression of astonishment "I will be dipped in shit".
>
> I think you, or possibly someone else, mentioned the "dipped in
> shit" expression not long ago -- and that was the first time I'd
> ever heard it.
It's often shortened to simply, "Well I'll be dipped."
--
Theodore (Ted) Heise <th...@heise.nu> Bloomington, IN, USA
Qp10qp
made her second million, so give the cat a doughnut) has the habit of calling
everyone a "chip stick".
I quite like that inoffensive version - though, despite being an expert in
snack food, I don't really know what a chip stick actually is. (I imagine it as
one of those cotton-bud-with-chocolate-on-the-end things). It's in the
tradition of euphemistic versions of rude sayings (like "oh, sugar") that add a
note of surrealism to everyday speech. (Evan had a cute term for that type of
expression, but I can't find it at the moment, it being Sunday.)
All my life I've wanted to swear less, but I haven't got it in me (out of me).
I fear that it's a bit like smoking: if I give it up, I might put on weight.
Peasemarch.
david56
> You're my kinda man, Cat. I like Scotland, from what I've seen of it,
> very much too. I nearly moved to Edinburgh, chatting with Chris M
> while there, during the Irish mail strike, not knowing how long it'd
> continue or if there'd be more, as threatened. Without a paycheck, I'm
> lost in the wilds.
Charles, have you considered Dumphries and Galloway? I'm not sure if
that's what Cat meant by "West Coast of Scotland", but it would get
my vote. It's a very quiet and civilized part of Scotland,
reasonably close to transport links. Dumphries itself is a pleasant
small town; I don't know how much the cost of living is there, but I
can't see why it would be expensive.
OTOH, central France, especially Creuse, is attractive and extremely
cheap, there being hardly any people there.
--
David
=====
John Dean
> Jade Goody, the British Big Brother star (I use that word advisedly:
> she's just made her second million, so give the cat a doughnut) has
> the habit of calling everyone a "chip stick".
>
> I quite like that inoffensive version - though, despite being an
> expert in snack food, I don't really know what a chip stick actually
> is.
The commonest chipstick over here is a crisp (AmE potato chip) in the
shape of a chip (AmE Freedom Fry).
http://www.taquitos.net/snacks.php?snack_code=1568
Though I'm pretty confident the redoubtable Jade had 'dipstick' in mind.
Though none of us were entirely sure how many of her jadeisms were the
product of a 'crazy like a fox' mentality. She played a tictactical game
but was used as an escape goat by others. And she thought East Angular
was abroad.
>
> All my life I've wanted to swear less, but I haven't got it in me
> (out of me). I fear that it's a bit like smoking: if I give it up, I
> might put on weight.
And I'm always worried if I stop putting on weight I'll start smoking
again...
--
John Dean
Oxford
Maria Conlon
> Maria Conlon
>
>>> I don't know where you got the wild notion you hear more British
>>> English in narrow-minded, middle of nowhere Michigan than I do,
next
>>> door to the UK as I am. Been to Britain itself, have you?
>>
>> Please read my paragraph again.
>
> OK. You wrote 'But you might consider the idea that you probably
don't
> hear what's current in AmE and BrE as often as people in
> America and England do.'
When I said "Please read my paragraph again," I followed that
sentence immediately with: "AmE" relates to "America"; "BrE" relates
to "England."
Did you really misunderstand what I was saying? If that's the case,
then discussing this any further is pointless. We're just talking,
not being clear, and not "getting" the other person's meaning. So I
guess you can go ahead and say what you want, including your usual
remarks about where I live.
Maria Conlon
Charles Riggs
<bass.c...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Charles Riggs typed thus:
>
>> You're my kinda man, Cat. I like Scotland, from what I've seen of it,
>> very much too. I nearly moved to Edinburgh, chatting with Chris M
>> while there, during the Irish mail strike, not knowing how long it'd
>> continue or if there'd be more, as threatened. Without a paycheck, I'm
>> lost in the wilds.
>
>Charles, have you considered Dumphries and Galloway? I'm not sure if
>that's what Cat meant by "West Coast of Scotland", but it would get
>my vote. It's a very quiet and civilized part of Scotland,
>reasonably close to transport links. Dumphries itself is a pleasant
>small town; I don't know how much the cost of living is there, but I
>can't see why it would be expensive.
I only know a little bit about Scotland, that being of Edinburgh only.
Looking again at a map of Scotland, I see so many intriguing-looking
places it makes me want to hop on the next train out. Next time I
should start investigating places along the coast, yet still on or
near rail since access to decent public transportation is important to
me. The area you mention sounds fantastic from what Encarta has on it,
and since getting to it is relatively easy, as you say, I'm putting it
in my travel notebook.
Mallaig, far west and on the coast, was highly recommended to me by a
girl in Edinburgh I was chatting up. In fact she said I *had* to go
there! I know she was homesick since we were talking about how
unapproachable some people in Edinburgh are, not that I found that to
be particularly the case myself. She said the people from out there
are way friendlier.
Fine for a visit, near the islands and all, but I'd find Mallaig too
small to live in, whereas the town of Dumfries itself looks about
right: around 40,000 population with a good number of interesting
things in it and, of course, around it.
Thank you for the tip, David.
>OTOH, central France, especially Creuse, is attractive and extremely
>cheap, there being hardly any people there.
That might be a problem. I need only a handful of good ones, but the
probability I'll find them increases with the population of the area.
Then there's that bugaboo of me not speaking French all that well, and
I do love to talk.
--
Charles Riggs
Linz
wrote:
You'd pick it up very quickly, though, if you enjoy talking and give
it a go.
--
I am careful and logical and I look things up I don't understand!
When I hear people use the wrong words I get edgy! I am good with
cheese. I read books fast. I /think/! And I always have a piece
of string. That's the kind of person I am! (Pratchett, Wee Free Men)
Mike Lyle
[...]
> whereas the town of Dumfries itself looks about
> right: around 40,000 population with a good number of interesting
> things in it and, of course, around it.
And D & G has a good library. I needed to look a couple of things up
in a standard but out-of-print sea-trout book, and pottered into
Carmarthen library; that was not only then my local library, but also
the major town on Europe's major sea-trout river. They didn't have it,
for God's sake! but put out the usual inter-library loan thing, and in
a few days I had a copy from the Dumfries and Galloway Library
Service.
[...]
Forgive me if I've raised this before, but it really worries me.
Following on from the above, I needed a certain book: I knew it
existed, as an uncle had written it, and I knew it almost by heart,
but somebody had pinched his only copy. The inter-library loan service
couldn't help, because the only known copy was in the Bodleian, and
they didn't have a spare for sending out, so I had to go all the way
to Oxford to see it. It's not an important book, but it had something
to say: in effect, that voice is now silent, because you don't use the
Bod for browsing.
As a boy, I used to go into the public library and pick stuff out
almost at random (they soon let me, I suppose like most AUE people,
into the adult section). That and my prep school's absurdly
old-fashioned collection meant I got to read casually things which had
been current two, three, or more generations before. No youngster in
Britain could do that now, even if TV and alcopops allowed it.
But what worries me is, where have those books gone? Libraries cull
constantly (didn't LA or SF have to get _sued_ before they stopped
junking the culture wholesale into landfill?), and given the pressure
they're under I can see why. But the texts need to be preserved. In
the Br Is we have a handful of statutory libraries with almost
everything ever published in English; but how can a reader know the
book actually _exists_? And what happens if two of the statutory
libraries get taken out by natural or human-made disaster? (The
Lincolnshire Records went up in smoke a few years ago. Gone. Finished.
Blank page in British, American, Australian etc history.) Then, a few
centuries down the line, some copies decay and crumble to dust -- as
they must. Partial cultural genocide; wise or stupid but still
significant voices from the past forever stilled.
Shouldn't somebody somewhere have a record of where everything is (at
least in public hands), and call a halt when too many copies are
threatened with destruction?
Am I just a bit potty, or is this a genuine problem?
Mike.
Jacqui
> Shouldn't somebody somewhere have a record of where everything is
> (at least in public hands), and call a halt when too many copies
> are threatened with destruction?
>
> Am I just a bit potty, or is this a genuine problem?
Not at all potty. There are people in the Bod, and in Cambridge,
Aberystwyth, Edinburgh, London, and elsewhere, working full-time on
locating and acquiring 'lost' titles in order to preserve them. In
some cases they'll take them in any state they can find, half a book
being better than none. Cataloguing is never going to be 100% up to
date, I guess, but the publicly accessible book catalogues are
mostly searchable online, and eventually there will be a
comprehensive record of everything held by these libraries, perhaps
with good cross-referencing. We can hope.
The biggest problem threatening rare copies is book theft - dealers
aren't always scrupulous about reporting books with library stamps.
And public libraries have been selling off and inadequately storing*
books for some time now. Those they can't get rid of entirely
they'll put in storage so that you cannot access them without
getting a reluctant librarian to go and fetch them for you. The
Bod's copy of Ruff's Guide To The Turf for 1996 had a long stay in
my office, because the Oxford public library copy was in storage and
most librarians could not/would not spare the time to go and fetch
it for me. "It's not been published lately so it's all out of date,
so we put it in storage." Rubbish. The winner of the 1843 Derby is
still the winner of the 1843 Derby whether the book was published
last year or 20 years ago. And that was the kind of information I
wanted from it.
* So that the books are irreparably damaged in the process. Gah.
Jac
Steve Hayes
Not potty, but I hadn't heard about the Lincolnshire records going us in
smoke, and thought someone in one of the genealogy groups might have mentioned
that.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Charles Riggs
wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 06:02:26 +0100, Charles Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 13:16:43 +0100, david56
>><bass.c...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>>OTOH, central France, especially Creuse, is attractive and extremely
>>>cheap, there being hardly any people there.
>>
>>That might be a problem. I need only a handful of good ones, but the
>>probability I'll find them increases with the population of the area.
>>Then there's that bugaboo of me not speaking French all that well, and
>>I do love to talk.
>
>You'd pick it up very quickly, though, if you enjoy talking and give
>it a go.
I am sure you are right. I never learned German grammar or spelling,
but I found that after being in the country for a year or so, I could
carry on a reasonably good conversation. When working on a German
merchant ship, it was speak German or don't talk, except with the
Captain. I lived in Germany four years and even developed an accent of
sorts; at least it fooled a German or two. I've been away a long time,
but I reckon it'd come back to me after a few weeks over there.
--
Charles Riggs
Django Cat
> Jade Goody, the British Big Brother star (I use that word advisedly:
> she's just
> made her second million, so give the cat a doughnut) has the habit of
> calling
> everyone a "chip stick".
>
> I quite like that inoffensive version - though, despite being an expert
> in
> snack food, I don't really know what a chip stick actually is.
Isn't that one of those sticks of cold fried potato like an elongated
crisp, comes in bags or sits on bars, totally impossible to stop eating
once you've started?
DC
Areff
> I don't know how the terms are used in Oz, but here we speak about
> people living on the East Coast or the West Coast even though they
> live inland by a considerable distance. Anyone living in California,
> for example, can be said to "live on the West Coast".
I'm not sure I agree, Coop. I'm not saying I disagree. I'm just saying
I'm not sure I agree.
It might have to do with how close the speaker is to the coast in
question, culturally speaking. As an East Coast native -- in fact, as
someone native to an *island* off the coast of North America -- I am
relatively disinclined to give inland Northeastern Americans East Coast
status. I think you really have to live within, say, 25 miles of the
actual Atlantic coast to qualify for East Coast status.
I have no real intuition for how this works in the West.
> A person living in Nevada might be referred to as
> living on the West Coast to an East Coaster.
I think I agree with your general pernt here (East Coast people have
broader definitions of 'West Coast' than of 'East Coast', etc.), but I
don't agree with this specific example. Nevada seems too far inland to
be "West Coast". It's just West.
--
Areff
> One thing about the U.S. has always puzzled me - why is Texas so often
> referred as being in "The West"? Or even "The Southwest"? Looking at a map
> of the the U.S.A. I can't see Texas as being anywhere except the southeast.
It's because these regional terms got established at earlier times in
which 'the West' was a lot closer to the East. Remember, the US was
basically settled from East to West. East to West is the basic cultural
movement.
That said, I don't think Texas is generally regarded, today, as 'the
West'. The Southwest, yes, much of it (but not East Texas). But Texas
really has its own identity and it's so big that it probably tends to be
regarded as its own region. Many also speak of Texas as being vaguely
part of the South, and this makes cultural sense.
The Midwest is an even easier case. The heart of the Midwest is the old
Northwest Territory, a bunch of states in the northeastern section of the
continental US. No one today thinks of the Midwest as part of the West,
but historically it *was* the West.
--