BrE: continentals
Marius Hancu
Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
she is "a Continental?"
---
continental
British English old-fashioned
belonging to or in Europe, not including Britain:
continental holidays
----
--
Thanks.
Marius Hancu
the Omrud
No. Under no circumstances.
--
David
franzi
--
franzi
Mike Lyle
Subject to the usual egg-on-face rules of a.u.e., I'd say no Brit could
ever claim to be "continental": the point of the expression is its
exclusion of the offshore islands. And I don't find it old-fashioned.
Even in AmE it can, or at any rate could formerly, refer to Europe, if
Marilyn Monroe is to be trusted (and if you can't trust Marilyn Monroe,
why, who _can_ you trust?)
If contrast is necessary with people from other continents, Brits will
admit to being Europeans.
--
Mike.
Marius Hancu
John Kane
Most generous of them.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada
James Hogg
Brits are incontinental Europeans.
--
James
Nick Spalding
on Mon, 4 Jan 2010 20:01:22 -0000:
It calls to mind the long ago evening newspaper poster:
"Fog in channel, continent isolated".
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
We Brits are not active Europeans. We are on the shelf.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
James Hogg
Is there a term of abuse for people who are too pro-EU? What would be
the equivalent of calling an Irishman a West Briton?
--
James
Hatunen
The Brits fought the Continentals 1775-89.
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
HVS
> John Kane wrote:
>> On Jan 4, 3:01 pm, "Mike Lyle"
>>> Brits will admit to being Europeans.
>> Most generous of them.
> Brits are incontinental Europeans.
No shit?
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
James Hogg
> On 04 Jan 2010, James Hogg wrote
>> John Kane wrote:
>>> On Jan 4, 3:01 pm, "Mike Lyle"
>
>>>> If contrast is necessary with people from other continents,
>>>> Brits will admit to being Europeans.
>
>>> Most generous of them.
>
>> Brits are incontinental Europeans.
>
> No shit?
Quite the reverse.
--
James
John Dean
> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:46:34 -0800 (PST), franzi
> <et.in.arca...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jan 4, 7:28 pm, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 04/01/2010 19:02, Marius Hancu wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello:
>>>
>>>> Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>>>> present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe,
>>>> that he/ she is "a Continental?"
>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> continental
>>>
>>>> British English old-fashioned
>>>
>>>> belonging to or in Europe, not including Britain:
>>>> continental holidays
>>>
>>> No. Under no circumstances.
>>>
>> Nor in any circumstances.
>
> The Brits fought the Continentals 1775-89.
And then in 1814 we took a little trip ...
--
John Dean
Oxford
Redshade
This decidedly uncontinental old Englishman also bristles at being
called "European" or indeed "British" and positively becomes
incontinent at being referred to as a "Brit".
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Ah. A Yorkshireman.
Steve Hayes
wrote:
>Hello:
>
>Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
>she is "a Continental?"
No, the Brits are strictly insular, Donne notwithstanding.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Steve Hayes
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>We Brits are not active Europeans. We are on the shelf.
His continental damage done
Marooned on an island shelf
Napoleon has ten years more
To think about himself.
(Auden, I think).
ke...@cam.ac.uk
Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hello:
>
>Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
>she is "a Continental?"
>
I would say not. "Continental" is definitely used for the geographical
continent of Europe, as distinct from the islands off the edge (though I
suspect most English people would count the Mediterranean islands as
Continental). It's useful to be able to distinguish "the Continent" from
"Europe", since we are all Europeans now.
Katy
Ian Jackson
<john...@fraglineone.net> writes
If you're interested, 1:30 pm today, BBC R4:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00pkbff
--
Ian
the Omrud
> On Jan 4, 10:04 pm, James Hogg<Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com> wrote:
>> HVS wrote:
>>> On 04 Jan 2010, James Hogg wrote
>>>> John Kane wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 4, 3:01 pm, "Mike Lyle"
>>
>>>>>> If contrast is necessary with people from other continents,
>>>>>> Brits will admit to being Europeans.
>>
>>>>> Most generous of them.
>>
>>>> Brits are incontinental Europeans.
>>
>>> No shit?
>>
>> Quite the reverse.
>
> called "European" or indeed "British" and positively becomes
> incontinent at being referred to as a "Brit".
Whereas this Englishman (for that is what I *am*, inside), is perfectly
content, nay pleased, to be British and European at the same time. When
you stray away from Europe you discover how European you are.
--
David
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Thanks. Recorder set.
John Dean
Ta. The first record I bought.
--
John Dean
Oxford
John O'Flaherty
wrote:
Brussels prats.
>What would be
>the equivalent of calling an Irishman a West Briton?
--
John
Chuck Riggs
<et.in.arca...@googlemail.com> wrote:
Not in any circumstance?
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs,
An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE
Chuck Riggs
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:52 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Hello:
>>
>>Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>>present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
>>she is "a Continental?"
>
>No, the Brits are strictly insular, Donne notwithstanding.
That was one of James Joyce's misgivings about the Irish, but I
wouldn't think insularity applied to the British, whose homeland ruled
half the world not so long ago. Quite the opposite, whatever the
opposite of insular is: cosmopolitan, I suppose.
Wood Avens
wrote:
>On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:46:34 -0800 (PST), franzi
><et.in.arca...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Jan 4, 7:28�pm, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 04/01/2010 19:02, Marius Hancu wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hello:
>>>
>>> > Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>>> > present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
>>> > she is "a Continental?"
>>>
>>> > ---
>>> > continental
>>>
>>> > British English old-fashioned
>>>
>>> > belonging to or in Europe, not including Britain:
>>> > continental holidays
>>>
>>> No. �Under no circumstances.
>>>
>>Nor in any circumstances.
>
>Not in any circumstance?
Never say never, but except in the unlikely circumstance of the
English Channel being filled in and Britain becoming physically
re-connected to the continent, no. And even then it would take a few
hundred years for the usage to catch on.
--
Katy Jennison
spamtrap: remove the first two letters after the @
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> In article <7a31c11f-5c44-46fc...@19g2000vbq.googlegroups.com>,
> Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello:
>>
>> Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>> present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
>> she is "a Continental?"
>>
>
> I would say not. "Continental" is definitely used for the geographical
> continent of Europe, as distinct from the islands off the edge (though I
> suspect most English people would count the Mediterranean islands as
> Continental).
I've often wondered about Denmark, many of whose inhabitants live on an
island? Many English people probably don't realize that Copenhagen is
on an island, so they probably regard all of Denmark as a continental
country. But what about Danes, who assuredly do know: do they regard
Copenhagen as a continental city? Do people from Copenhagen refer to
Jutland as the Continent?
I know that people in the Canary Islands sometimes get annoyed with
visitors who ask (as apparently very often happens) how far away they
are from Spain. If they need to make a distinction between their bit of
Spain and the rest they usually refer to the mainland as the Peninsula
(maybe sometimes the Continent, but I think I've heard Peninsula more
often).
What about Tasmanians: do they refer to the rest of Australia as the
Continent? If not, what?
--
athel
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:40:09 +0200, Steve Hayes
><haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:52 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Hello:
>>>
>>>Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>>>present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
>>>she is "a Continental?"
>>
>>No, the Brits are strictly insular, Donne notwithstanding.
>
>That was one of James Joyce's misgivings about the Irish, but I
>wouldn't think insularity applied to the British, whose homeland ruled
>half the world not so long ago. Quite the opposite, whatever the
>opposite of insular is: cosmopolitan, I suppose.
It depends on how you look at it. The British Empire could be seen as a
large scattered archipelago. Some British could be insular in respect of
anything outside it: French, Germans, Italians, Greeks, and other
foreigners.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
By which time we might all be Asian or Oriental.
Richard Chambers
"the Omrud" <usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote in message
news:wjr0n.21946$Ym4....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> On 04/01/2010 19:02, Marius Hancu wrote:
>> Hello:
>>
>> Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>> present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
>> she is "a Continental?"
The full answer to this specific question is No, we wouldn't ever describe
ourselves as Continentals. In the hypothetical situation where we were
taking the side of France, Germany, Italy and Spain in a dispute with
America, we would describe ourselves as Europeans. We would be allying
ourselves with the Continentals, who are a separate entity from us. This
situation has occasionally arisen in practice in minor trade disputes with
the USA. The last one that I remember was about eight years ago when
Europe refused to accept beef from the USA, because the use of growth
hormones in rearing beef cattle is allowed by the health laws of the USA,
but prohibited by Europe. The USA retaliated with some petty trade
restrictions on Europe, including a ban on British knitwear which nearly
put a well known Scottish knitwear company out of business. A very
well-known company, but I have forgotten its name. Can anybody help me
out? Anyway, it was all sorted out a couple of months later by
negotiation.
Richard Chambers Leeds UK.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Not-so-wild guess: "The Mainland".
R H Draney
No big deal...Europe's but a medium-sized peninsula on the northwestern
extremity of the Asian continent anyway....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
HVS
> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:40:09 +0200, Steve Hayes
><haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:52 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu
>> <marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello:
>>>
>>> Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when
>>> trying to present in opposition to the Americans, and as part
>>> of Europe, that he/ she is "a Continental?"
>>
>> No, the Brits are strictly insular, Donne notwithstanding.
>
> That was one of James Joyce's misgivings about the Irish, but I
> wouldn't think insularity applied to the British, whose homeland
> ruled half the world not so long ago. Quite the opposite,
> whatever the opposite of insular is: cosmopolitan, I suppose.
Assuming Steve was using "insular" with its original meaning (rather
than as an synonym for "illiberal" or "narrow-minded"), the cultural
awareness of living on an island struck me as one of the main
differences between Canada and England when I moved here.
the Omrud
Have you tried the Isle of Man?
--
David
Wood Avens
Or Jersey or Guernsey?
HVS
Oh, I'm not saying that other places aren't even more culturally
and socially insular -- the IOW is a good example -- but I don't
see that that has much bearing on whether England does or doesn't
have an island-as-opposed-to-continental culture.
HVS
> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 16:15:29 GMT, the Omrud
><usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 05/01/2010 16:14, HVS wrote:
>
>>> Assuming Steve was using "insular" with its original meaning
>>> (rather than as an synonym for "illiberal" or
>>> "narrow-minded"), the cultural awareness of living on an
>>> island struck me as one of the main differences between Canada
>>> and England when I moved here.
>>
>> Have you tried the Isle of Man?
>
> Or Jersey or Guernsey?
See my reply to David; I don't see how the fact that other islands
may have an even stronger sense of island-ness is relevant to the
question of whether England is or isn't culturally insular (in the
strict sense of "as opposed to continental").
the Omrud
Agreed. I was just offering a nearby place with an even stronger
feeling of "island-ness".
--
David
Steve Hayes
>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:40:09 +0200, Steve Hayes
><haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:52 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Hello:
>>>
>>>Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>>>present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
>>>she is "a Continental?"
>>
>>No, the Brits are strictly insular, Donne notwithstanding.
>
>That was one of James Joyce's misgivings about the Irish, but I
>wouldn't think insularity applied to the British, whose homeland ruled
>half the world not so long ago. Quite the opposite, whatever the
>opposite of insular is: cosmopolitan, I suppose.
I thought the opposite of "insular" was "continental".
Steve Hayes
Quite.
When I lived in Britain for a while, they talked about "ports of entry" where
we talked about "border crossings". That's an insular mentality as opposed to
a continental one. Perhaps the Channel tunnel will change that.
Wood Avens
wrote:
No, indeed; it was just that going to, and coming back from, Jersey
and Guernsey was so strikingly opposite an experience, for me as a
British-islander, to going to and coming back from the USA. I clearly
remember thinking, when I got back from Gernsey after my first trip
there, that it must be something like this for Americans visiting
Britain. Not that I was necessarily right about that, simply that
that's the analogy that sprang unbidden to my mind at the time.
HVS
It was certainly the case for me, as a "non-coastal Canadian" --
it's as much a physical thing as social/cultural, of course.
I grew up in Ottawa, and well into my teens our summer holiday
involved driving to visit my grandparents in Manitoba. So while we
were travelling long distances -- it was 3 full days of driving,
each way -- our family never travelled to the coast.
Obviously I learned about and saw pictures of tides and oceans and
shipping and stuff. and I messed about with boats on rivers and
lakes. Nonetheless, I didn't see a body of salt water or a tidal
flat until I was 21. (Lake Superior has tides, but they're
measured in inches and you don't notice them.) It wasn't until I
was 30 -- when I was living in Wivenhoe (near Colchester) -- that I
personally saw fairly large boats sitting on the mud flats when the
tide was out.
When you're first exposed to such things in real life as an adult
(as opposed to just knowing about them from book larnin'), it can
seem really quite alien.
JimboCat
> On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 22:42:53 +0100, James Hogg <Jas.H...@gOUTmail.com>
<applause>
Jim Deutch (JimboCat)
--
"We must believe in free will. We have no choice." -Isaac B. Singer
John Holmes
>
> What about Tasmanians: do they refer to the rest of Australia as the
> Continent? If not, what?
The North Island.
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
Chuck Riggs
<haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:07:45 +0000, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:40:09 +0200, Steve Hayes
>><haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:52 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hello:
>>>>
>>>>Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>>>>present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
>>>>she is "a Continental?"
>>>
>>>No, the Brits are strictly insular, Donne notwithstanding.
>>
>>That was one of James Joyce's misgivings about the Irish, but I
>>wouldn't think insularity applied to the British, whose homeland ruled
>>half the world not so long ago. Quite the opposite, whatever the
>>opposite of insular is: cosmopolitan, I suppose.
>
>I thought the opposite of "insular" was "continental".
Wouldn't open-minded be closer, looking at the dictionary definition
of insular? Why "continental", since a people can be insular without
living on an island, I believe?
Chuck Riggs
<rob...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
>> What about Tasmanians: do they refer to the rest of Australia as the
>> Continent? If not, what?
>
>The mainland. They are quite disparaging about it.
Which reminds me, if you want to upset an Hawaiian, mention that
you're going back to America in the morning.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:07:45 +0000, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:40:09 +0200, Steve Hayes
>><haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:52 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hello:
>>>>
>>>>Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>>>>present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
>>>>she is "a Continental?"
>>>
>>>No, the Brits are strictly insular, Donne notwithstanding.
>>
>>That was one of James Joyce's misgivings about the Irish, but I
>>wouldn't think insularity applied to the British, whose homeland ruled
>>half the world not so long ago. Quite the opposite, whatever the
>>opposite of insular is: cosmopolitan, I suppose.
>
>I thought the opposite of "insular" was "continental".
That sounds like a geographical distinction rather one based on the
transferred usage of "insular".
OED:
4.a. Pertaining to islanders; esp. having the characteristic traits
of the inhabitants of an island (e.g. of Great Britain);
cut off from intercourse with other nations, isolated;
self-contained;
narrow or prejudiced in feelings, ideas, or manners.
Just two of the quotations:
1849 MACAULAY Hist. Eng. ix. II. 427 They were a race insular in
temper as well as in geographical position.
1870 LOWELL Study Wind. 252 Without ceasing to be English, he has
escaped from being insular.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
This Tasmanian uses that phrase:
http://www.nla.gov.au/events/firstperson/papers/First_Person-Bowden.pdf
Tasmania: the testicle of Australia
Tim Bowden
Tasmania is the testicle of Australia—suffusing the Mainland with
strength and vigour. What a pity there is only one of them.
....
but the sad reality is that in testicular terms, we Tasmanians are
geographically detached from ‘the mainland’, hanging there alone,
last stop before Antarctica.
....
Mainland and even overseas writers are drawn to what Tim Herbert
once described ‘the heart-shaped island with a brutal history’ that
‘has become everybody’s favourite narrative site’.
Then he gives a litany of works and authors:
First-time novelist Chloe Hooper ... her
psychological thriller, A Child’s Book of True Crime.
Britain’s poet laureate Andrew Motion...fictional biography,
Wainwright the Poisoner, ...
[The] location for the quest for Eden in Matthew Kneale’s English
Passengers,
Tom Gilling’s curious fantasy about a Hobart woman giving
birth to a seal, The Sooterkin.
British writer Nicholas Shakespeare ... a book titled In Tasmania,
etc.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> said:
> [ ... ]
> This Tasmanian uses that phrase:
> http://www.nla.gov.au/events/firstperson/papers/First_Person-Bowden.pdf
>
> Tasmania: the testicle of Australia
> Tim Bowden
Almost certainly a relation of mine. Other than South Devon and Greater
Manchester (which are almost certainly independent foci), Tasmania is
one of the places where the name Bowden occurs most frequently.
--
athel
Robert Bannister
> Obviously I learned about and saw pictures of tides and oceans and
> shipping and stuff. and I messed about with boats on rivers and
> lakes. Nonetheless, I didn't see a body of salt water or a tidal
> flat until I was 21. (Lake Superior has tides, but they're
> measured in inches and you don't notice them.)
You don't have to live far from the ocean to be unaware of tides.
Perth's tides rarely go over two feet and are usually much less. Tidal
information is mainly for boats who need to know how strongly the tide
is flowing and in which direction.
--
Rob Bannister
John Varela
wrote:
> Oh, I'm not saying that other places aren't even more culturally
> and socially insular -- the IOW is a good example -- but I don't
> see that that has much bearing on whether England does or doesn't
> have an island-as-opposed-to-continental culture.
How does Britain's island culture compare to that of Japan? Any
similarities?
--
John Varela
Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
Robert Bannister
> What about Tasmanians: do they refer to the rest of Australia as the
> Continent? If not, what?
The mainland. They are quite disparaging about it.
--
Rob Bannister
Chuck Riggs
>BrE filted:
>>
>>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:07:05 +0000, Wood Avens
>><wood...@askjennison.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Never say never, but except in the unlikely circumstance of the
>>>English Channel being filled in and Britain becoming physically
>>>re-connected to the continent, no. And even then it would take a few
>>>hundred years for the usage to catch on.
>>
>>By which time we might all be Asian or Oriental.
>
>No big deal...Europe's but a medium-sized peninsula on the northwestern
>extremity of the Asian continent anyway....r
If Europe's but a peninsula, what's Ireland? Chopped liver?
Chuck Riggs
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:07:45 +0000, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:40:09 +0200, Steve Hayes
>><haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:52 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hello:
>>>>
>>>>Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>>>>present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
>>>>she is "a Continental?"
>>>
>>>No, the Brits are strictly insular, Donne notwithstanding.
>>
>>That was one of James Joyce's misgivings about the Irish, but I
>>wouldn't think insularity applied to the British, whose homeland ruled
>>half the world not so long ago. Quite the opposite, whatever the
>>opposite of insular is: cosmopolitan, I suppose.
>
>It depends on how you look at it. The British Empire could be seen as a
>large scattered archipelago. Some British could be insular in respect of
>anything outside it: French, Germans, Italians, Greeks, and other
>foreigners.
A Gilbert and Sullivan song I can't remember the name of gave me that
impression.
ObAUE: One of my choral instructors opined their songs should be
called arias, but I wasn't convinced.
Cheryl
next high tide if the wind stays up.
--
Cheryl (glad to be at least a short distance above sea level right now)
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
The late Lord Bowden was from Chesterfield. He spent the latter part of
his life in Greater Manchester, specifically in Bowdon. Many people
confused the spellings and assumed that he was Baron Bowdon rather than
Baron Bowden.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._V._Bowden,_Baron_Bowden
tsuidf
> Hello:
>
> Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
> present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
> she is "a Continental?"
<lunatic laughter, unable to type>
from Brussels, but definitely not a continental, that would be
impossible,
Stephanie
tsuidf
> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 14:44:47 +0000, Chuck Riggs <chri...@eircom.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:46:34 -0800 (PST), franzi
> ><et.in.arcadia.fra...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> >>On Jan 4, 7:28 pm, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On 04/01/2010 19:02, Marius Hancu wrote:
>
> >>> > Hello:
>
> >>> > Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
> >>> > present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
> >>> > she is "a Continental?"
>
> >>> > continental
>
> >>> > British English old-fashioned
>
> >>> > belonging to or in Europe, not including Britain:
> >>> > continental holidays
>
>
> >>Nor in any circumstances.
>
> >Not in any circumstance?
>
> Never say never, but except in the unlikely circumstance of the
> English Channel being filled in and Britain becoming physically
> re-connected to the continent, no. And even then it would take a few
> hundred years for the usage to catch on.
>
When she's right, she's right, you know.
During the Eurostar chaos of a couple of weeks ago (3 days with no
service at all), MYM (living with me here, in Brussels) turned to me
during one such news report and remarked in a very matter-of-fact way,
"It's 'Continent cut off' again, then."
cheers,
Stephanie
tsuidf
<richard.chambers7_NoSp...@ntlworld.net> wrote:
> "the Omrud" <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:wjr0n.21946$Ym4....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
> > On 04/01/2010 19:02, Marius Hancu wrote:
> >> Hello:
>
> >> Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
> >> present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
> >> she is "a Continental?"
>
> ourselves as Continentals. In the hypothetical situation where we were
> taking the side of France, Germany, Italy and Spain in a dispute with
> America, we would describe ourselves as Europeans. We would be allying
> ourselves with the Continentals, who are a separate entity from us. This
> situation has occasionally arisen in practice in minor trade disputes with
> the USA. The last one that I remember was about eight years ago when
> Europe refused to accept beef from the USA, because the use of growth
> hormones in rearing beef cattle is allowed by the health laws of the USA,
> but prohibited by Europe. The USA retaliated with some petty trade
> restrictions on Europe, including a ban on British knitwear which nearly
> put a well known Scottish knitwear company out of business. A very
> well-known company, but I have forgotten its name. Can anybody help me
> out? Anyway, it was all sorted out a couple of months later by
> negotiation.
Pringle?
the Omrud
> During the Eurostar chaos of a couple of weeks ago (3 days with no
> service at all), MYM (living with me here, in Brussels) turned to me
> during one such news report and remarked in a very matter-of-fact way,
> "It's 'Continent cut off' again, then."
What? Is YYM British? I had imagined a Brusselois, Gauloises in one
hand, Leffe in the other.
--
David
tsuidf
> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:31:22 UTC, HVS <use...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > Oh, I'm not saying that other places aren't even more culturally
> > and socially insular -- the IOW is a good example -- but I don't
> > see that that has much bearing on whether England does or doesn't
> > have an island-as-opposed-to-continental culture.
>
> How does Britain's island culture compare to that of Japan? Any
> similarities?
You were thinking perhaps of begin almost fetishistic about tea and
its associated rituals? Something to do with politeness and the
clever use of language? Love of seafood?
tsuidf
> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:26:43 +0800, Robert Bannister
>
> >Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> >> What about Tasmanians: do they refer to the rest of Australia as the
> >> Continent? If not, what?
>
> >The mainland. They are quite disparaging about it.
>
> Which reminds me, if you want to upset an Hawaiian, mention that
> you're going back to America in the morning.
Or you can do what the registrar at Harvard Law did to a Hawaiian
friend: told her that 'foreigners have to register over there....'
Sigh.
Cheers,
Stephanie
the Omrud
OTOH, when leaving Cornwall by road, you should tell people that you are
"going to England".
--
David
HVS
> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:31:22 UTC, HVS
> <use...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Oh, I'm not saying that other places aren't even more
>> culturally and socially insular -- the IOW is a good example --
>> but I don't see that that has much bearing on whether England
>> does or doesn't have an island-as-opposed-to-continental
>> culture.
>
> How does Britain's island culture compare to that of Japan? Any
> similarities?
Good question. Personally, I've no idea -- never been to Japan, so
all my impressions of that culture are second- or third-hand.
the Omrud
I have been to Japan for a few weeks in total, but since Tokyo extends
for about 50 miles in all directions, it often feels more like Manhattan
than Britain. I think you'd have to get away from the cities to get a
proper feel for the native culture.
--
David
Steve Hayes
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:01:26 +0200, Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:07:45 +0000, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:40:09 +0200, Steve Hayes
>>><haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:52 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hello:
>>>>>
>>>>>Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>>>>>present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
>>>>>she is "a Continental?"
>>>>
>>>>No, the Brits are strictly insular, Donne notwithstanding.
>>>
>>>That was one of James Joyce's misgivings about the Irish, but I
>>>wouldn't think insularity applied to the British, whose homeland ruled
>>>half the world not so long ago. Quite the opposite, whatever the
>>>opposite of insular is: cosmopolitan, I suppose.
>>
>>I thought the opposite of "insular" was "continental".
>
>That sounds like a geographical distinction rather one based on the
>transferred usage of "insular".
Oh dear, one can't even make puns any more.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
HVS
> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 13:46:25 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
><ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:01:26 +0200, Steve Hayes
>> <haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:07:45 +0000, Chuck Riggs
>>> <chr...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:40:09 +0200, Steve Hayes
>>>> <haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:52 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu
>>>>> <marius...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when
>>>>>> trying to present in opposition to the Americans, and as
>>>>>> part of Europe, that he/ she is "a Continental?"
>>>>>
>>>>> No, the Brits are strictly insular, Donne notwithstanding.
>>>>
>>>> That was one of James Joyce's misgivings about the Irish, but
>>>> I wouldn't think insularity applied to the British, whose
>>>> homeland ruled half the world not so long ago. Quite the
>>>> opposite, whatever the opposite of insular is: cosmopolitan,
>>>> I suppose.
>>>
>>> I thought the opposite of "insular" was "continental".
>>
>> That sounds like a geographical distinction rather one based on
>> the transferred usage of "insular".
>
> Oh dear, one can't even make puns any more.
Hmmm....I guesss I missed the pun, too. (I thought you were just
being dead accurate with the original/non-transferred meaning of
"insular"...and I agreed entirely with that pedantry...)
Mike Barnes
Similarly when leaving Orkney, say you're going to Scotland. Mind you,
they have justification for the usage there: the principal Orkney island
is called Mainland.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
R H Draney
>
>On 5 Jan 2010 08:12:17 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>>
>>No big deal...Europe's but a medium-sized peninsula on the northwestern
>>extremity of the Asian continent anyway....r
>
>If Europe's but a peninsula, what's Ireland? Chopped liver?
Part of an archipelago....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Which should not, ever, be confused with Mainland, the principal island
of Shetland.
Steve Hayes
Well its circular, isn't it. The British live on islands, which makes them
insular. Their environment affects them in such a way that being insular is
also transferred to their worldview etc. So they are insular because they are
British because they are insular because they are British.
John Varela
wrote:
> A Gilbert and Sullivan song I can't remember the name of gave me that
> impression.
"For he is an Englishman", from _Pinafore_.
From memory, so might contain errors:
For he might have been a Rooshan,
Or French or Turk or Prooshan,
Or perhaps I-tal-i-an.
But in spite of all temptations
To belong to other nations
He remains an Englishman,
He remains an Englishman.
> ObAUE: One of my choral instructors opined their songs should be
> called arias, but I wasn't convinced.
Some should.
John Varela
No, I was thinking of cultural similarities that distinguish them
from continental nations. The items you list exist in continental
Europe and east Asia.
John Varela
New Mexicans complain of the same sort of thing.
franzi
wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 18:19:48 +0000, Mike Barnes
>
>
>
> >the Omrud <usenet.om...@gEXPUNGEmail.com>:
> >>On 06/01/2010 17:17, tsuidf wrote:
> >>> On Jan 6, 2:39 pm, Chuck Riggs<chri...@eircom.net> wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:26:43 +0800, Robert Bannister
>
> >>>> <robb...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>
> >>>>>> What about Tasmanians: do they refer to the rest of Australia as the
> >>>>>> Continent? If not, what?
>
> >>>>> The mainland. They are quite disparaging about it.
>
> >>>> Which reminds me, if you want to upset an Hawaiian, mention that
> >>>> you're going back to America in the morning.
>
> >>> Or you can do what the registrar at Harvard Law did to a Hawaiian
> >>> friend: told her that 'foreigners have to register over there....'
>
> >>> Sigh.
>
> >>OTOH, when leaving Cornwall by road, you should tell people that you
> >>are "going to England".
>
> >Similarly when leaving Orkney, say you're going to Scotland. Mind you,
> >they have justification for the usage there: the principal Orkney island
> >is called Mainland.
>
> Which should not, ever, be confused with Mainland, the principal island
> of Shetland.
>
Normandy - the one the English newspapers are flown in from. This
despite France being in full view of some of the smaller islands all
day long, and England at least sixty miles away from them. That's 100
km, but I'm not sure if they do km in the Channel Islands.
--
franzi
R H Draney
>
>On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:14:58 UTC, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
>wrote:
>
>> A Gilbert and Sullivan song I can't remember the name of gave me that
>> impression.
>
>> called arias, but I wasn't convinced.
>
>Some should.
Only the ones they wrote in Italian...the English ones should be called airs (or
"aires" if you're a traditionalist)....r
Hatunen
<usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>On 06/01/2010 17:32, HVS wrote:
>> On 05 Jan 2010, John Varela wrote
>>> How does Britain's island culture compare to that of Japan? Any
>>> similarities?
>>
>> Good question. Personally, I've no idea -- never been to Japan, so
>> all my impressions of that culture are second- or third-hand.
>
>I have been to Japan for a few weeks in total, but since Tokyo extends
>for about 50 miles in all directions, it often feels more like Manhattan
>than Britain. I think you'd have to get away from the cities to get a
>proper feel for the native culture.
Why do so many people think the people in the country and not the
cities are the true representatives of a nation's culture?
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
James Hogg
> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:39:19 GMT, the Omrud
> <usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 06/01/2010 17:32, HVS wrote:
>>> On 05 Jan 2010, John Varela wrote
>
>>>> How does Britain's island culture compare to that of Japan? Any
>>>> similarities?
>>> Good question. Personally, I've no idea -- never been to Japan,
>>> so all my impressions of that culture are second- or third-hand.
>> I have been to Japan for a few weeks in total, but since Tokyo
>> extends for about 50 miles in all directions, it often feels more
>> like Manhattan than Britain. I think you'd have to get away from
>> the cities to get a proper feel for the native culture.
>
> Why do so many people think the people in the country and not the
> cities are the true representatives of a nation's culture?
For the same reason that, say, a "typical Irish house" is a little thatched,
whitewashed cottage. You have to drive for miles to see one among all
the mock-Tudor mansions and Dallas-style monstrosities, yet somehow
these rare and unrepresentative cottages typify all that is Ireland.
--
James
the Omrud
During the MPs' expenses furore, the MP for Shetland found that he was
required to answer the question "What is your closest mainline railway
station?". Getting nowhere with protests that it was a silly question,
he eventually answered "Oslo".
I would have thought that Bergen has a station, but never mind that.
--
David
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
I seem to recall that Jo Grimond said that when he was MP for Orkney and
Shetland he would give a similar answer to that question.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Grimond
Robert Bannister
> John Varela filted:
>> On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:14:58 UTC, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A Gilbert and Sullivan song I can't remember the name of gave me that
>>> impression.
>>> ObAUE: One of my choral instructors opined their songs should be
>>> called arias, but I wasn't convinced.
>> Some should.
>
> Only the ones they wrote in Italian...the English ones should be called airs (or
> "aires" if you're a traditionalist)....r
>
>
Buenos.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
> Robert Bannister wrote:
>> HVS wrote:
>>
>>> Obviously I learned about and saw pictures of tides and oceans and
>>> shipping and stuff. and I messed about with boats on rivers and
>>> lakes. Nonetheless, I didn't see a body of salt water or a tidal
>>> flat until I was 21. (Lake Superior has tides, but they're measured
>>> in inches and you don't notice them.)
>>
>> You don't have to live far from the ocean to be unaware of tides.
>> Perth's tides rarely go over two feet and are usually much less. Tidal
>> information is mainly for boats who need to know how strongly the tide
>> is flowing and in which direction.
>>
>>
> And people living on the coast who are wondering what's likely to happen
> next high tide if the wind stays up.
>
Don't get the wind up.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 13:46:25 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
> <ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:01:26 +0200, Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:07:45 +0000, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:40:09 +0200, Steve Hayes
>>>> <haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:52 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>>>>>> present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
>>>>>> she is "a Continental?"
>>>>> No, the Brits are strictly insular, Donne notwithstanding.
>>>> That was one of James Joyce's misgivings about the Irish, but I
>>>> wouldn't think insularity applied to the British, whose homeland ruled
>>>> half the world not so long ago. Quite the opposite, whatever the
>>>> opposite of insular is: cosmopolitan, I suppose.
>>> I thought the opposite of "insular" was "continental".
>> That sounds like a geographical distinction rather one based on the
>> transferred usage of "insular".
>
> Oh dear, one can't even make puns any more.
>
>
Although Peter's OED quote about "cut off from intercourse" was tempting.
--
Rob Bannister
John Holmes
>
> Why do so many people think the people in the country and not the
> cities are the true representatives of a nation's culture?
I think it has to do with the newness of the culture of large cities.
People outside those areas are probably more representative of the way
the culture has been over a century or two, inclucing in the cities
themselves when they were smaller.
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
Mike Barnes
>Hatunen wrote:
>>
>> Why do so many people think the people in the country and not the
>> cities are the true representatives of a nation's culture?
>
>I think it has to do with the newness of the culture of large cities.
>People outside those areas are probably more representative of the way
>the culture has been over a century or two, inclucing in the cities
>themselves when they were smaller.
The built-in assumption there is that the country's past is somehow more
representative than its present. If you're looking for *distinctive*
characteristics, the past is a good place to look. But it's hardly
"representative".
Athel Cornish-Bowden
> R H Draney wrote:
>> John Varela filted:
>>> On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:14:58 UTC, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A Gilbert and Sullivan song I can't remember the name of gave me that
>>>> impression. ObAUE: One of my choral instructors opined their songs should be
>>>> called arias, but I wasn't convinced.
>>> Some should.
>>
>> Only the ones they wrote in Italian...
and then they'd need to use an Italian plural (arie? I'm not sure, but
certainly not arias).
--
athel
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
Some in Carousel could, but when you start calling pretty songs arias,
you're descending down a slippery slope.
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs,
An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE
Chuck Riggs
>John Varela filted:
>>
>>On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:14:58 UTC, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>> A Gilbert and Sullivan song I can't remember the name of gave me that
>>> impression.
>>
>>> ObAUE: One of my choral instructors opined their songs should be
>>> called arias, but I wasn't convinced.
>>
>>Some should.
>
>Only the ones they wrote in Italian...the English ones should be called airs (or
>"aires" if you're a traditionalist)....r
The English have enough airs already.
J. J. Lodder
> On 6 Jan 2010 13:09:36 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>
> >John Varela filted:
> >>
> >>On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:14:58 UTC, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>> A Gilbert and Sullivan song I can't remember the name of gave me that
> >>> impression.
> >>
> >>> ObAUE: One of my choral instructors opined their songs should be
> >>> called arias, but I wasn't convinced.
> >>
> >>Some should.
> >
> >Only the ones they wrote in Italian...the English ones should be called
> >airs (or "aires" if you're a traditionalist)....r
>
> The English have enough airs already.
Ayres, you mean?
Jan
Chuck Riggs
>On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 17:39:19 GMT, the Omrud
><usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 06/01/2010 17:32, HVS wrote:
>>> On 05 Jan 2010, John Varela wrote
>
>>>> How does Britain's island culture compare to that of Japan? Any
>>>> similarities?
>>>
>>> Good question. Personally, I've no idea -- never been to Japan, so
>>> all my impressions of that culture are second- or third-hand.
>>
>>I have been to Japan for a few weeks in total, but since Tokyo extends
>>for about 50 miles in all directions, it often feels more like Manhattan
>>than Britain. I think you'd have to get away from the cities to get a
>>proper feel for the native culture.
>
>Why do so many people think the people in the country and not the
>cities are the true representatives of a nation's culture?
They do? Cows and country people vary little from country to country,
from what I've seen, so I look to the cities for whatever it is that
makes a particular country unique.
Chuck Riggs
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 19:01:26 +0200, Steve Hayes <haye...@telkomsa.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:07:45 +0000, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 05 Jan 2010 02:40:09 +0200, Steve Hayes
>>><haye...@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 4 Jan 2010 11:02:52 -0800 (PST), Marius Hancu <marius...@gmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hello:
>>>>>
>>>>>Would a British person ever say of himself/herself, when trying to
>>>>>present in opposition to the Americans, and as part of Europe, that he/
>>>>>she is "a Continental?"
>>>>
>>>>No, the Brits are strictly insular, Donne notwithstanding.
>>>
>>>That was one of James Joyce's misgivings about the Irish, but I
>>>wouldn't think insularity applied to the British, whose homeland ruled
>>>half the world not so long ago. Quite the opposite, whatever the
>>>opposite of insular is: cosmopolitan, I suppose.
>>
>>I thought the opposite of "insular" was "continental".
>
>That sounds like a geographical distinction rather one based on the
>transferred usage of "insular".
>
>OED:
>
> 4.a. Pertaining to islanders; esp. having the characteristic traits
> of the inhabitants of an island (e.g. of Great Britain);
>
> cut off from intercourse with other nations, isolated;
>
> self-contained;
>
> narrow or prejudiced in feelings, ideas, or manners.
>
>Just two of the quotations:
>
> 1849 MACAULAY Hist. Eng. ix. II. 427 They were a race insular in
> temper as well as in geographical position.
>
> 1870 LOWELL Study Wind. 252 Without ceasing to be English, he has
> escaped from being insular.
When Joyce complained that the Irish were insular, I believe the OED's
"cut off from intercourse with other nations, isolated" was what he
had in mind.
Chuck Riggs
<stephanie...@telenet.be> wrote:
>On Jan 6, 2:39�pm, Chuck Riggs <chri...@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:26:43 +0800, Robert Bannister
>>
>> <robb...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> >Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>
>> >> What about Tasmanians: do they refer to the rest of Australia as the
>> >> Continent? If not, what?
>>
>> >The mainland. They are quite disparaging about it.
>>
>> Which reminds me, if you want to upset an Hawaiian, mention that
>> you're going back to America in the morning.
>
>Or you can do what the registrar at Harvard Law did to a Hawaiian
>friend: told her that 'foreigners have to register over there....'
>
>Sigh.
That's even more cutting than my example, for Hawaii was a territory
of the United States well before it was a state, and people from the
territory of a country are not generally classified as foreigners.
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
>On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:17:11 UTC, tsuidf
Did the old ones?
CDB
> On 6 Jan 2010 20:11:36 GMT, "John Varela" <OLDl...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:17:11 UTC, tsuidf
>> <stephanie...@telenet.be> wrote:
>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2:39 pm, Chuck Riggs <chri...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:26:43 +0800, Robert Bannister
>>>>
>>>> <robb...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>> Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> What about Tasmanians: do they refer to the rest of Australia
>>>>>> as the Continent? If not, what?
>>>>
>>>>> The mainland. They are quite disparaging about it.
>>>>
>>>> Which reminds me, if you want to upset an Hawaiian, mention that
>>>> you're going back to America in the morning.
>
was noticed.)
>>>
>>> Or you can do what the registrar at Harvard Law did to a Hawaiian
>>> friend: told her that 'foreigners have to register over
>>> there....'
>>
>> New Mexicans complain of the same sort of thing.
>
> Did the old ones?
>
John Varela
> Why do so many people think the people in the country and not the
> cities are the true representatives of a nation's culture?
Let me try again.
England and Japan both industrialized ahead of their neighbors. Both
had imperial ambitions. Both think the people on the nearby
continent are wogs. What else?
Frank ess
CDB wrote:
> Chuck Riggs wrote:
>> On 6 Jan 2010 20:11:36 GMT, "John Varela" <OLDl...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 17:17:11 UTC, tsuidf
>>> <stephanie...@telenet.be> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Jan 6, 2:39 pm, Chuck Riggs <chri...@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 06 Jan 2010 09:26:43 +0800, Robert Bannister
>>>>>
>>>>> <robb...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> What about Tasmanians: do they refer to the rest of Australia
>>>>>>> as the Continent? If not, what?
>>>>>
>>>>>> The mainland. They are quite disparaging about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which reminds me, if you want to upset an Hawaiian, mention that
>>>>> you're going back to America in the morning.
>>
> Especially upsetting if he's an haole. (Just wanted you to know it
> was noticed.)
Is that a dyslexicism?
Haole, I mean.
"An haole". Must be.
Cheryl
>
> Why do so many people think the people in the country and not the
> cities are the true representatives of a nation's culture?
>
Because a lot of people think that the countryside is full of all the
noble virtues of the ...I want to say race, here...culture which have
gotten lost or abandoned by the hedonistic lot who moved to the city,
took up various vices, and forgot the old ways. Naturally, if you want
to describe your culture, you'll pick the 'good' bits, even if you do
labour in a cubicle in a big-city high-rise and left your rural hometown
as soon as you finished high school.
Also, because all really big cities tend to look a lot alike, especially
at street level, where you can't see the famous
mountain/waterfront/historic buildings.
In my experience, people who actually live in rural areas don't have too
many illusions about the virtue and traditional practices of their
neighbours, but people who live in cities often get extraordinarily
nostalgic about the safe, friendly life in rural areas with all the old
customs preserved intact, like in a living history museum.
Then they visit their rural relatives and complain that no one sells
lattes, and there's nothing to do in the evenings.
--
Cheryl
Robert Bannister
> Hatunen wrote:
>>
>> Why do so many people think the people in the country and not the
>> cities are the true representatives of a nation's culture?
>
> I think it has to do with the newness of the culture of large cities.
> People outside those areas are probably more representative of the way
> the culture has been over a century or two, inclucing in the cities
> themselves when they were smaller.
>
Perceived newness perhaps. There are a number of cities around the world
that are over two thousand years old. Very few rural settlements are the
same age.
--
Rob Bannister
R H Draney
>
>On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 21:22:43 UTC, Hatunen <hat...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Why do so many people think the people in the country and not the
>> cities are the true representatives of a nation's culture?
>
>Let me try again.
>
>England and Japan both industrialized ahead of their neighbors. Both
>had imperial ambitions. Both think the people on the nearby
>continent are wogs. What else?
They had very different records when it comes to being invaded from
without...England seems to get a new wave of foreigners every few hundred years,
and each time from a different direction...Japan has done much better at staving
off unwanted outside influence, and in the most striking instance, chased off a
bunch of Europeans out who already had their big feet in the door....r