Apple
sand
same fruit described in the Biblical story of Adam and Eve. But the
term "apple" has been applied to different edibles through history and
I wonder if the Biblical apple is the same as the apple we know. The
German and the French refer to potatoes as "earth apples" and Finnish
used the word "appelsiini" to name oranges. And there is the word
"pineapple" in English. The potato was unknown in the original
Biblical areas at that time and also, I assume, the pineapple. Google
is thoroughly overwhelmed with the computer Apple which was named, I
assume, to symbolize the bite that was the promethian gift of Satan to
humanity. So was the Biblical apple the same fruit we know?
S&
R J Valentine
There is no biblical apple. The story as I recall it mentions the fruit
of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. There was a little
medieval joke based on the similarity of the Latin word for "evil" and the
Latin word for "apple". But you don't want to squeeze it too hard.
--
R. J. Valentine <mailto:ap...@wicked.smart.net>
Tony Cooper
What tree have you seen that grows symbolic fruit?
It could have been a horse apple. It's what it stood for, not what it
was.
J. J. Lodder
> The fruit known in English as the apple is normally assumed to be the
> same fruit described in the Biblical story of Adam and Eve.
There is no Bibical source for the fruit being an apple.
That's a medieval invention.
> But the
> term "apple" has been applied to different edibles through history and
> I wonder if the Biblical apple is the same as the apple we know. The
> German and the French refer to potatoes as "earth apples" and Finnish
> used the word "appelsiini" to name oranges.
Dutch 'aardappel' and 'sinasappel'/'appelsien'.
European trade (esp with the Baltic) was largely in Dutch hands
when these fruits were introduced,
so Dutch usage may have influenced other languages.
In particular the Finnish here is clearly a Dutch import word.
On the other hand there is Dutch 'denneappel'
for the cones of the pine tree,
with the English 'pineapple' being named in Dutch
by its original name 'ananas'.
> And there is the word
> "pineapple" in English. The potato was unknown in the original
> Biblical areas at that time and also, I assume, the pineapple. Google
> is thoroughly overwhelmed with the computer Apple which was named, I
> assume, to symbolize the bite that was the promethian gift of Satan to
> humanity.
Eh, no. The truth is simpler than that.
As it happened Steve Jobs was very much a Beatle fan,
and he named his computer after their record company, Apple records.
As a consequence Apple Computer and Apple Records
have made an agreement to sue each other every ten years.
Jan
--
"sosumi"
sand
Lodder) wrote:
>> is thoroughly overwhelmed with the computer Apple which was named, I
>> assume, to symbolize the bite that was the promethian gift of Satan to
>> humanity.
>
>Eh, no. The truth is simpler than that.
>As it happened Steve Jobs was very much a Beatle fan,
>and he named his computer after their record company, Apple records.
>
>As a consequence Apple Computer and Apple Records
>have made an agreement to sue each other every ten years.
>
>Jan
I had heard that story, but the Apple computer icon is the apple with
one bite taken and it is reasonable to assume that the original choice
was morphed into the Biblical apple since that bite significantly
indicates the computer is a "bite" into knowledge.
S&
M. J. Powell
<jan_...@hotmail.com> writes
I have read that the pineapple is carved into the stone in some pyramids
and tombs in Egypt, and it only grows in the Caribbean.
Mike
-
M.J.Powell
R H Draney
>
>I have read that the pineapple is carved into the stone in some pyramids
>and tombs in Egypt, and it only grows in the Caribbean.
"The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plover may
seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land?"...(when
some fundamentalist tries to tell me that there can't be life on other planets
because it's not mentioned in the Bible, I always ask him if he believes in
kangaroos)....
Okay, back to seriousness....
The anatomical feature known as the "Adam's apple" may have something to do with
the identification of the fruit of Eden with the apple...does anyone have useful
data on that?...how old is the expression in English, and what's that lump in
the throat called in other languages?...r
Skitt
> sand wrote:
>> ... and I wonder if the Biblical apple is the same as the apple
>> we know. The German and the French refer to potatoes as "earth
>> apples" and Finnish used the word "appelsiini" to name oranges.
>
> Dutch 'aardappel' and 'sinasappel'/'appelsien'.
> European trade (esp with the Baltic) was largely in Dutch hands
> when these fruits were introduced,
> so Dutch usage may have influenced other languages.
> In particular the Finnish here is clearly a Dutch import word.
As is the Latvian "apelsīns".
> On the other hand there is Dutch 'denneappel'
> for the cones of the pine tree,
> with the English 'pineapple' being named in Dutch
> by its original name 'ananas'.
In Latvian it is "ananāss".
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
Skitt
> I have read that the pineapple is carved into the stone in some
> pyramids and tombs in Egypt, and it only grows in the Caribbean.
Ah, Hawaii is in the Caribbean, then.
J. J. Lodder
Christopher Johnson
[..]
> The anatomical feature known as the "Adam's apple" may have something to do with
> the identification of the fruit of Eden with the apple...does anyone have useful
> data on that?...how old is the expression in English, and what's that lump in
> the throat called in other languages?...r
The AHD says that "Adam's apple" is ultimately a translation
of French "pomme d'Adam", 'pomegranate', 'Adam's apple'
(sense influenced by Arabic rummna, pomegranate, Adam's apple).
Most of our preconceived ideas about Adam and Eve and the
Garden of Eden come from John Milton's epic poem "Paradise
Lost," published in 1667. It was Milton who introduced the
idea that the fruit that Adam ate was an apple.
Perhaps it was actually a pomegranate?
--
Christopher
My e-mail address <chris_jo...@yahoo.com> is
not 'munged' in any way and is fully replyable!
The Grammer Genious
> The fruit known in English as the apple is normally assumed to be the
> same fruit described in the Biblical story of Adam and Eve. But the
> term "apple" has been applied to different edibles through history and
> I wonder if the Biblical apple is the same as the apple we know. <...>
Although the Adam and Eve story doesn't mention apples, there are still plenty
of apples in the Old Testament. So the question still stands.
A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.
(Proverbs, 25:11)
\\P. Schultz
Martin Ambuhl
This is a strangely not-really-reflexive proverb. The JPS translation has
Like golden apples in silver showpieces[c]
Is a phrase well turned.
[c] Meaning of Heb. uncertain
Whether this is itself "a phrase well turned" seems open to question.
Robert Bannister
> Dutch 'aardappel' and 'sinasappel'/'appelsien'.
> European trade (esp with the Baltic) was largely in Dutch hands
> when these fruits were introduced,
> so Dutch usage may have influenced other languages.
> In particular the Finnish here is clearly a Dutch import word.
Hmm. I won't deny the Dutch were very active traders, but it seems just
as likely to me that the Finns got it from German.
> On the other hand there is Dutch 'denneappel'
> for the cones of the pine tree,
> with the English 'pineapple' being named in Dutch
> by its original name 'ananas'.
Most European languages use 'ananas'; English is the exception.
> As a consequence Apple Computer and Apple Records
> have made an agreement to sue each other every ten years.
I have to agree with that.
--
Rob Bannister
The Grammer Genious
I'll say! "Showpieces"? What is this, marketing?
And what does the translator mean, "meaning uncertain"?
Why doesn't he just go look it up? I can't believe he got
paid for a shoddy translation job like that.
But getting back to the question, what does he mean by "apple"?
Golden delicious? Granny Smith?
Wouldn't "orange" be a better translation, seeing as how it's
golden?
\\P. Schultz
Robert Lieblich
> The Grammer Genious wrote:
[ ... ]
> > Like golden apples in silver showpieces[c]
> > Is a phrase well turned.
> > [c] Meaning of Heb. uncertain
> >
> > Whether this is itself "a phrase well turned" seems open to question.
>
> I'll say! "Showpieces"? What is this, marketing?
>
> And what does the translator mean, "meaning uncertain"?
> Why doesn't he just go look it up? I can't believe he got
> paid for a shoddy translation job like that.
> But getting back to the question, what does he mean by "apple"?
> Golden delicious? Granny Smith?
>
> Wouldn't "orange" be a better translation, seeing as how it's
> golden?
I think Ray Bradbury would leave it as is.
Yeats, too.
--
Bob Lieblich
Me too
Martin Ambuhl
> Martin Ambuhl wrote:
No, "The Grammer Genious" is the correct attribution here. Leaving out
a level (MA/GG instead of GG/MA/GG) becomes completely misleading. You
have denied \\P. Schultz his props for his fine language that you claim
that I wrote.
Bob, you have the attributions completely screwed up. Is this your own
invention or is there some commercial piece of crap we need to avoid.
Robert Lieblich
[ ... ]
> Bob, you have the attributions completely screwed up. Is this your own
> invention or is there some commercial piece of crap we need to avoid.
The explanation (if I could fully figure it out) would only add to
the confusion. I think what I did was "correct" an "error" that
probably wasn't. This ought, therefore, to be an isolated instance,
because it was a frolic of my own, with the software only along for
the ride. I apologize to you and the Grammer Genious, and to anyone
else led into confusion, for making such a mess of things.
--
Bob Lieblich
I'll never do that again ... probably
sand
Lodder) wrote:
Imagination is a valuable capability. How does your imagination handle
that bite? (byte?)
S&
sand
<chris_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Perhaps it was actually a pomegranate?
That comment leads me to wonder if the Eden apple is related to the
problem between Pluto and Persephone which is another case of eating a
forbidden fruit.
S&
R H Draney
>
>That comment leads me to wonder if the Eden apple is related to the
>problem between Pluto and Persephone which is another case of eating a
>forbidden fruit.
Do you mean Hades and Persephone, or Pluto and Proserpina?...r
sand
wrote:
Yes, of course. Thanks. My capabilities with Latin and Greek are not
terribly competent.
S&
Evan Kirshenbaum
> sand <jan_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> I had heard that story, but the Apple computer icon is the apple
>> with one bite taken and it is reasonable to assume that the
>> original choice was morphed into the Biblical apple since that bite
>> significantly indicates the computer is a "bite" into knowledge.
>
> Any supporting evidence, except your imagination?
Support, perhaps, to the contrary, from an article (translated from
Danish) on the history of the logo:
According to Linzmayer, Rob Janoff started with a silhouette of a
black apple on a white background, but felt that something was
missing. A play on words that Apple previous had used in
advertising for the Apple I, may have helped Janoff to the idea
that a bite should be taken of the apple (playing on "taking a
bite of the Apple", where "bite", is pronounced the same as the
computer expression "byte" (as in Megabyte). The bite in the apple
also meant the the logo no longer looked like or was confused with
a tomato, Janoff has told [7].
http://www.macnyt.dk/default.tpl?news=20020702221448
Looking at the actual ad, at
http://apple2history.org/museum/ads/a1ad2.html
The slogan was "Byte into an Apple". The logo pictured Newton under a
tree, and there is no mention of Adam, Eve, Serpents, or Gardens.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |English is about as pure as a
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |cribhouse whore. We don't just
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |borrow words; on occasion, English
|has pursued other languages down
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com |alleyways to beat them unconscious
(650)857-7572 |and rifle their pockets for new
|vocabulary.
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | --James D. Nicoll
J. J. Lodder
> J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
>
> > Dutch 'aardappel' and 'sinasappel'/'appelsien'.
> > European trade (esp with the Baltic) was largely in Dutch hands
> > when these fruits were introduced,
> > so Dutch usage may have influenced other languages.
> > In particular the Finnish here is clearly a Dutch import word.
>
> Hmm. I won't deny the Dutch were very active traders, but it seems just
> as likely to me that the Finns got it from German.
And where would the Germans have gotten their 'apfelsinen' from?
===
die Apfelsine
English Meaning: orange (the fruit)
Sound Correspondences: p to pf
Origin: Old Dutch appelsina and Low German Appelsina
Literally, "Apfelsine" means "apple from China." Oranges were brought
from China to Europe by the Portuguese around 1500. "Sina" was an old
spelling for "China." Two other words for the same fruit, "die Orange,"
and "die Pomeranze," both come from Italian.
===
And to put things into perpective: 'the germans'
(actually nearly independent towns like Bremen and Hamburg)
didn't have much of a trading fleet
and dindn't engage in long distance trade.
Germans were too busy fighting each other on land most of the time.
BTW the origin
(the firt import in bulk from a not quite voluntary supplier)
is enshrined in a popular song that every Dutch child
still learns in school. (Piet Hein and all that)
Best,
Jan
--
Heb je van de Zilveren Vloot wel gehoord
De Zilveren Vloot van Spanje?
Die had er veel Spaanse matten aan boord
En appeltjes van Oranje (Piet Hein was an orangist)
J. J. Lodder
> Looking at the actual ad, at
>
> http://apple2history.org/museum/ads/a1ad2.html
>
> The slogan was "Byte into an Apple". The logo pictured Newton under a
> tree, and there is no mention of Adam, Eve, Serpents, or Gardens.
Which seems appropriate.
After all, suggesting divine punishment,
enforced by angels with flaming swords
upon use of the product isn't great advertising,
Jan
Donna Richoux
What do you think of the Hanseatic League, then? The Columbia
Encyclopedia says it ran from roughly 1200-1670 and extended across
northern Europe.
The history of oranges was discussed recently on a.f.u. That time period
would have covered their introduction to Europe (first, small bitter
green ones, then tangerines, then big orange-colored ones from China).
>
> BTW the origin
> (the firt import in bulk from a not quite voluntary supplier)
> is enshrined in a popular song that every Dutch child
> still learns in school. (Piet Hein and all that)
Oh, we all know how accurate children's songs are as conveyors of
history. Piet Hein was a Danish mathematician of the 20th century --
what song are you talking about, please?
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
J. J. Lodder
> J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
> > And to put things into perpective: 'the germans'
> > (actually nearly independent towns like Bremen and Hamburg)
> > didn't have much of a trading fleet
> > and dindn't engage in long distance trade.
> > Germans were too busy fighting each other on land most of the time.
>
> What do you think of the Hanseatic League, then? The Columbia
> Encyclopedia says it ran from roughly 1200-1670 and extended across
> northern Europe.
Almost dead, by that time. And they engaged mainly in overland trade.
Look also for 'hanzestad/steden' in Dutch.
Their wagon trails are still visible in the landscape in some places.
See under 'hanzewegen'.
> The history of oranges was discussed recently on a.f.u. That time period
> would have covered their introduction to Europe (first, small bitter
> green ones, then tangerines, then big orange-colored ones from China).
> >
> > BTW the origin
> > (the firt import in bulk from a not quite voluntary supplier)
> > is enshrined in a popular song that every Dutch child
> > still learns in school. (Piet Hein and all that)
>
> Oh, we all know how accurate children's songs are as conveyors of
> history.
The song was written with the intention to teach patriotic history,
the only history that is Memorable.
> Piet Hein was a Danish mathematician of the 20th century --
Theoretical physicist actually, a pupil of Niels Bohr,
not Harald.
Piet Hein proudly claimed to be a descendant of Piet Hein.
(small is his name, great are his deeds!)
Many Dutch families settled in Denmark in the 17th/18th,
mostly as farmers, bringing their famous black and white cows.
There even is a Dutch museum village somewhere in Denmark.
The first Piet Hein was a Dutch admiral who immortalised his name
by taking one of the heavily escorted Spanish silver fleets,
worth the entire production of Latin America for a year.
The silver still is in the cellars of the 'Nederlandse Bank'
in Amsterdam. Guilders used to be minted from the supply.
Most came back when the silver coins were replaced by nickel ones.
The oranges were a by-product.
The Dutch were in the 80 years war not only for independence,
but also for (sometimes huge) profit.
> what song are you talking about, please?
A seconds googling yields
<http://www.nederlands.nl/nedermap/poezie/poezie/18719.html?zoekresultaat=ja>
Of course only the first lines and the refrain are Memorable,
Jan
--
WHAT LOVE IS LIKE
Love is like
a pineapple,
sweet and
undefinable.
(Piet Hein)
iwasaki
"Christopher Johnson" <chris_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40563A3B...@yahoo.com...
> R H Draney wrote:
>
> [..]
>
> > The anatomical feature known as the "Adam's apple" may have something to
do with
> > the identification of the fruit of Eden with the apple...does anyone
have useful
> > data on that?...how old is the expression in English, and what's that
lump in
> > the throat called in other languages?...r
"Buddha of throat" in Japanese. It's interesting that the part
of the body is connected with a religious thing both here and there.
> The AHD says that "Adam's apple" is ultimately a translation
> of French "pomme d'Adam", 'pomegranate', 'Adam's apple'
> (sense influenced by Arabic rummna, pomegranate, Adam's apple).
>
> Most of our preconceived ideas about Adam and Eve and the
> Garden of Eden come from John Milton's epic poem "Paradise
> Lost," published in 1667. It was Milton who introduced the
> idea that the fruit that Adam ate was an apple.
Since when have people come to eat apples uncooked? I have
heard that Newton's apple was so sour and bitter, if not
inedible, and that nowadays apples are very different from
the ones around that times.
--
Nobuko Iwasaki
Chris Malcolm
>nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) writes:
>> sand <jan_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> I had heard that story, but the Apple computer icon is the apple
>>> with one bite taken and it is reasonable to assume that the
>>> original choice was morphed into the Biblical apple since that bite
>>> significantly indicates the computer is a "bite" into knowledge.
>> Any supporting evidence, except your imagination?
>Support, perhaps, to the contrary, from an article (translated from
>Danish) on the history of the logo:
> According to Linzmayer, Rob Janoff started with a silhouette of a
> black apple on a white background, but felt that something was
> missing. A play on words that Apple previous had used in
> advertising for the Apple I, may have helped Janoff to the idea
> that a bite should be taken of the apple (playing on "taking a
> bite of the Apple", where "bite", is pronounced the same as the
> computer expression "byte" (as in Megabyte). The bite in the apple
> also meant the the logo no longer looked like or was confused with
> a tomato, Janoff has told [7].
> http://www.macnyt.dk/default.tpl?news=20020702221448
>Looking at the actual ad, at
> http://apple2history.org/museum/ads/a1ad2.html
>The slogan was "Byte into an Apple". The logo pictured Newton under a
>tree, and there is no mention of Adam, Eve, Serpents, or Gardens.
So none of these guys knew that Alan Turing committed suicide by
taking a bite from a poisoned apple?
How sad. A wonderful opportunity lost through ignorance. But
all too characteristic of the computer industry.
--
Chris Malcolm c...@infirmatics.ed.ac.uk +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]
J. J. Lodder
> "Christopher Johnson" <chris_jo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40563A3B...@yahoo.com...
> > R H Draney wrote:
> >
> > [..]
> >
> > > The anatomical feature known as the "Adam's apple" may have something to
> do with
> > > the identification of the fruit of Eden with the apple...does anyone
> have useful
> > > data on that?...how old is the expression in English, and what's that
> lump in
> > > the throat called in other languages?...r
>
> "Buddha of throat" in Japanese. It's interesting that the part
> of the body is connected with a religious thing both here and there.
>
> > The AHD says that "Adam's apple" is ultimately a translation
> > of French "pomme d'Adam", 'pomegranate', 'Adam's apple'
> > (sense influenced by Arabic rummna, pomegranate, Adam's apple).
> >
> > Most of our preconceived ideas about Adam and Eve and the
> > Garden of Eden come from John Milton's epic poem "Paradise
> > Lost," published in 1667. It was Milton who introduced the
> > idea that the fruit that Adam ate was an apple.
>
> Since when have people come to eat apples uncooked?
Early 19th century, iirc.
> I have
> heard that Newton's apple was so sour and bitter, if not
> inedible, and that nowadays apples are very different from
> the ones around that times.
True.
Appels don't breed true,
and all edible ones have been propagated vegetatively
from lucky finds in the wild, such as the Golden Delicious.
Jan
Simon R. Hughes
> Appels don't breed true,
> and all edible ones have been propagated vegetatively
> from lucky finds in the wild, such as the Golden Delicious.
That was an unlucky find.
Give me a good English Cox's or a russet any day of the week.
--
Simon R. Hughes
sand
Anyway, Prometheus is not exactly a bad name in legend for defying the
gods. The legendary Tree of Knowlege seems to me to be a worthwhile
treasure compared with being a forelock tugging agricultural servant
to God. But my feelings in the matter are well known hereabouts.
S&
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Anyway, Prometheus is not exactly a bad name in legend for defying
> the gods. The legendary Tree of Knowlege seems to me to be a
> worthwhile treasure compared with being a forelock tugging
> agricultural servant to God. But my feelings in the matter are well
> known hereabouts.
It's always seemed a pity that they didn't eat the fruit of the Tree
of Life and become immortal (which wasn't forbidden) before eating the
fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The expulsion
from the garden would have then been unnecessary.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Society in every state is a blessing,
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |but government, even in its best
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |state is but a necessary evil; in its
|worst state, an intolerable one.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com | Thomas Paine
(650)857-7572
sand
<kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>sand <jan_...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> Anyway, Prometheus is not exactly a bad name in legend for defying
>> the gods. The legendary Tree of Knowlege seems to me to be a
>> worthwhile treasure compared with being a forelock tugging
>> agricultural servant to God. But my feelings in the matter are well
>> known hereabouts.
>
>It's always seemed a pity that they didn't eat the fruit of the Tree
>of Life and become immortal (which wasn't forbidden) before eating the
>fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The expulsion
>from the garden would have then been unnecessary.
From what I have heard of God, I wouldn't trust the Son-of-a-bitch as
far as I could throw a snake.
S&
R H Draney
>
>It's always seemed a pity that they didn't eat the fruit of the Tree
>of Life and become immortal (which wasn't forbidden) before eating the
>fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The expulsion
>from the garden would have then been unnecessary.
Well, if they'd eaten the fruit of the Tree of Life first, it could only have
been by accident, since they hadn't yet acquired the Knowledge....
And then of course there was that serpent making sure things went the way they
did...the world's first troll....r
Robert Bannister
> From what I have heard of God, I wouldn't trust the Son-of-a-bitch as
> far as I could throw a snake.
Still, at least he's multi-racial. Take His Son: you have this Jewish
bloke, probably speaking Aramaic or Greek, born in a town that is now
just about entirely Muslim, and His religion is controlled by a Pole
living in Italy.
--
Rob Bannister
The Grammer Genious
> Martin Ambuhl wrote:
> Robert Lieblich wrote:
>
>> Martin Ambuhl wrote:
>> [ ... ]
Well, I'm too confused to be annoyed, but the fact is that the modern Hebrew
word for "orange" (tapuz, from tapuakh zahav, or "golden apple") is based partly
on a calque from other languages and partly on the very biblical verse in
question (this according to Even-Shoshan). So maybe the biblical verse DID mean
an orange, after all.
\\P. Schultz
sand
I have, perhaps, been unkind. Although He is fequently characterized
as perfect, it is obvious that many things just have not worked out
well. I can understand His prejudice for forgiveness since He needs
that benefit more than anyone else. He is merely inept and requires
sympathy more than condemnation although He does have a nasty sense of
humor considering the practical jokes he played on Abraham and Job.
S&
Martin Ambuhl
We're all confused; most are annoyed. However, I found both your
earlier post and this enjoyable. Kiss-kiss/hug-hug. At least one RR
should go into orbit over that...
Charles Riggs
You're allowing that a Mother of God exists, or once existed? Most
unJan-like, I must say. Or perhaps you're saying She brought on the
Big Bang, disappearing with it, leaving any future requirement for
Gods unnecessary. I've finally copped on, Jan: you're a Deist.
--
Charles Riggs
My email address: chriggs/at/eircom/dot/net
sand
wrote:
Obviously any initial sex act that produced a god must be considered a
big bang.
Nevertheless, I consider the theory tenuous.
S&
J. J. Lodder
> Thus spake J. J. Lodder:
>
> > Appels don't breed true,
> > and all edible ones have been propagated vegetatively
> > from lucky finds in the wild, such as the Golden Delicious.
>
> That was an unlucky find.
The finder did think otherwise.
> Give me a good English Cox's or a russet any day of the week.
Some googling shows that modern edible apples did exist in Newton's day.
The oldest verities are late 1500s, early 1600s.
Since Newton supposedly sat in an orchard with planted apple trees
he might have eaten the legendary apple,
Jan
Michael West
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:24:29 +0800, Robert Bannister
> <rob...@it.net.au> wrote:
>
>> sand wrote:
>>
>>
>>> From what I have heard of God, I wouldn't trust the Son-of-a-bitch
>>> as far as I could throw a snake.
>>
>> Still, at least he's multi-racial. Take His Son: you have this Jewish
>> bloke, probably speaking Aramaic or Greek, born in a town that is now
>> just about entirely Muslim, and His religion is controlled by a Pole
>> living in Italy.
>
> I have, perhaps, been unkind. Although He is fequently characterized
> as perfect, it is obvious that many things just have not worked out
> well. I can understand His prejudice for forgiveness since He needs
Nuh. His "son" (disputed) was the forgiveness guy. The old man
was the "vengeance is mine" guy. You need to keep it straight
so you know which one to pray to on a given occasion.
--
Michael West
sand
Admittedly I am lacking in the minutae of the business, but I thought
they were all (including, boo!, the ghost) the same being.
S&
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Some googling shows that modern edible apples did exist in Newton's
> day. The oldest verities are late 1500s, early 1600s.
Really? No fundamental truths before then?
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Code should be designed to make it
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |easy to get it right, not to work
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |if you get it right.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Roland Hutchinson
Kirshenbaum wrote:
> nos...@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) writes:
>
>> Some googling shows that modern edible apples did exist in Newton's
>> day. The oldest verities are late 1500s, early 1600s.
>
> Really? No fundamental truths before then?
Of course not. Fundamentalism was an offshoot of the Prostestant
Reformation.
--
Roland Hutchinson Will play viola da gamba for food.
NB mail to my.spamtrap [at] verizon.net is heavily filtered to
remove spam. If your message looks like spam I may not see it.
John Varela
wrote:
> Fundamentalism was an offshoot of the Prostestant
> Reformation.
I have no idea when Protestant Fundamentalism began, but would have guessed it
is a consequence of 19th Century science. Before Darwin, and before the
geologists decided that the Earth is very old, no one questioned the Genesis
stories so there was no need for a Fundamentalist reaction.
--
John Varela
(Trade "OLD" lamps for "NEW" for email.)
I apologize for munging the address but the spam is too much.
Don Aitken
Not at all:
"We worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither
confounding the Persons nor dividing the Substance. For there is one
Person of the Father, another of the Son: and another of the Holy
Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy
Ghost, is all one: the Glory equal, the Majesty co-eternal. Such as
the Father is, such is the Son: and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father
uncreate, the Son uncreate: and the Holy Ghost uncreate. The father
incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible: and the Holy Ghost
incomprehensible. The father eternal, the Son eternal: and the Holy
Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal.
As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated:
but one uncreated, and one incomprehensible ... He therefore that will
be saved: must thus think of the Trinity."
Quite simple (though, of course, incomprehensible) really.
Note the Lawlerian approach to punctuation.
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being
read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com".
sand
wrote:
Thanks for the effort anyway.
S&
Michael West
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 17:35:01 +0200, sand <jan_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:06:44 GMT, "Michael West"
>> <mbw...@remove.bigpond.com> wrote:
>>> Nuh. His "son" (disputed) was the forgiveness guy. The old man
>>> was the "vengeance is mine" guy. You need to keep it straight
>>> so you know which one to pray to on a given occasion.
>>
>> Admittedly I am lacking in the minutae of the business, but I thought
>> they were all (including, boo!, the ghost) the same being.
That depends on which heresy you subscribe to.
But then, I'm basing this on the book rather than the movie.
--
Michael West
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Roland Hutchinson <my.sp...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Fundamentalism was an offshoot of the Prostestant
>> Reformation.
>
> I have no idea when Protestant Fundamentalism began, but would have
> guessed it is a consequence of 19th Century science. Before Darwin,
> and before the geologists decided that the Earth is very old, no one
> questioned the Genesis stories so there was no need for a
> Fundamentalist reaction.
Within the United States, fundamentalism was originally a movement
beginning in the late 19th century of Christian evangelical
conservatives, who, in a reaction to modernism, insisted on
adhering to a set of core beliefs. Fundamentalists, in this sense,
have engaged in criticism of more liberal movements. The original
formulation of American fundamentalist beliefs can be traced to
the Niagara Bible Conference in 1878. In 1910, these beliefs later
became distilled into what were known as the "five fundamentals",
which were:
- Inerrancy of the Bible
- The virgin birth and deity of Jesus Christ
- The doctrine of substitutionary atonement
- The bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ
- The bodily second coming of Jesus Christ
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Christian-fundamentalism
(Others say that the Niagara Bible Conference (which met anually until
1897) didn't start until 1883, but some point to precursors as early
as 1876.)
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Politicians are like compost--they
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |should be turned often or they start
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |to smell bad.
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Robert Bannister
Didn't the ghost do something nasty to the boy's mother?
--
Rob Bannister
Peter Moylan
>Didn't the ghost do something nasty to the boy's mother?
We have only her word for that. It's like the princess who was
caught in bed with a young man, and tried to get away with the
claim that he was a frog the night before.
There once was a lady of Hod
Who thought babies all came from God,
But it wasn't the Almighty
Who lifted her nightie
But Roger, the lodger, the dirty old codger,
The shirker, the bastard, the sod.
--
Peter Moylan Peter....@newcastle.edu.au
http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)
sand
Moylan) wrote:
>Robert Bannister infrared:
>
>>Didn't the ghost do something nasty to the boy's mother?
>
>We have only her word for that. It's like the princess who was
>caught in bed with a young man, and tried to get away with the
>claim that he was a frog the night before.
>
> There once was a lady of Hod
> Who thought babies all came from God,
> But it wasn't the Almighty
> Who lifted her nightie
> But Roger, the lodger, the dirty old codger,
> The shirker, the bastard, the sod.
This brings up the controversy about Joseph's relationship to Roger.
There is, perhaps, the birth of a new sect in that.
(Where is Hod?)
S&
M. Ranjit Mathews
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2004 20:59:50 +0200, sand <jan_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:21:36 -0800, Evan Kirshenbaum
> ><kirsh...@hpl.hp.com> wrote:
>
> >>It's always seemed a pity that they didn't eat the fruit of the Tree
> >>of Life and become immortal (which wasn't forbidden) before eating the
> >>fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The expulsion
> >>from the garden would have then been unnecessary.
> >
> >From what I have heard of God, I wouldn't trust the Son-of-a-bitch as
> >far as I could throw a snake.
>
> You're allowing that a Mother of God exists, or once existed?
How else did El beget Yahweh?
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/origingod.htm
sand
Mathews) wrote:
>How else did El beget Yahweh?
>http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/origingod.htm
Yaweh came out of El? How the el did that happen?
S&
Peter Moylan
>On 18 Mar 2004 02:30:09 GMT, pe...@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au (Peter
>Moylan) wrote:
>
>>Robert Bannister infrared:
>>
>>>Didn't the ghost do something nasty to the boy's mother?
>>
>>We have only her word for that. It's like the princess who was
>>caught in bed with a young man, and tried to get away with the
>>claim that he was a frog the night before.
>>
>> There once was a lady of Hod
>> Who thought babies all came from God,
>> But it wasn't the Almighty
>> Who lifted her nightie
>> But Roger, the lodger, the dirty old codger,
>> The shirker, the bastard, the sod.
>
>This brings up the controversy about Joseph's relationship to Roger.
Welease Woger!
Of course, those who know their limericks know that it
wasn't really Roger, it was some SOB called Skinner.
>There is, perhaps, the birth of a new sect in that.
>(Where is Hod?)
I don't have a clue, but it sounds as if it ought to be in England.
It certainly isn't in Australia. The event was originally planned
for Australia, but nobody could find three wise men or a virgin.
sand
Moylan) wrote:
>sand infrared:
>>On 18 Mar 2004 02:30:09 GMT, pe...@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au (Peter
>>Moylan) wrote:
>>
>>>Robert Bannister infrared:
>>>
>>>>Didn't the ghost do something nasty to the boy's mother?
>>>
>>>We have only her word for that. It's like the princess who was
>>>caught in bed with a young man, and tried to get away with the
>>>claim that he was a frog the night before.
>>>
>>> There once was a lady of Hod
>>> Who thought babies all came from God,
>>> But it wasn't the Almighty
>>> Who lifted her nightie
>>> But Roger, the lodger, the dirty old codger,
>>> The shirker, the bastard, the sod.
>>
>>This brings up the controversy about Joseph's relationship to Roger.
>
>Welease Woger!
>
>Of course, those who know their limericks know that it
>wasn't really Roger, it was some SOB called Skinner.
>
>>There is, perhaps, the birth of a new sect in that.
>>(Where is Hod?)
>
>I don't have a clue, but it sounds as if it ought to be in England.
>It certainly isn't in Australia. The event was originally planned
>for Australia, but nobody could find three wise men or a virgin.
There are questions regarding to Hod
And the sexual habits of God
Since the facts are emergin'
That the lack of a virgin
Spoils the child and spares the rod.
S&
Lars Enderin
> J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:
>
>
>>Robert Bannister <rob...@it.net.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>J. J. Lodder wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dutch 'aardappel' and 'sinasappel'/'appelsien'.
>>>>European trade (esp with the Baltic) was largely in Dutch hands
>>>>when these fruits were introduced,
>>>>so Dutch usage may have influenced other languages.
>>>>In particular the Finnish here is clearly a Dutch import word.
>>>
>>>Hmm. I won't deny the Dutch were very active traders, but it seems just
>>>as likely to me that the Finns got it from German.
>>
>>And where would the Germans have gotten their 'apfelsinen' from?
>>===
>>die Apfelsine
>>English Meaning: orange (the fruit)
>>Sound Correspondences: p to pf
>>Origin: Old Dutch appelsina and Low German Appelsina
>>Literally, "Apfelsine" means "apple from China." Oranges were brought
>>from China to Europe by the Portuguese around 1500. "Sina" was an old
>>spelling for "China." Two other words for the same fruit, "die Orange,"
>>and "die Pomeranze," both come from Italian.
>>===
Since Finland was part of Sweden, and orange is apelsin in Swedish, the
word could have adapted from Swedish, or it may have been introduced in
both languages at the same time. Swedish was greatly influenced by Low
German in those days, and Finnish has been influenced by Swedish.
>
> What do you think of the Hanseatic League, then? The Columbia
> Encyclopedia says it ran from roughly 1200-1670 and extended across
> northern Europe.
--
Lars Enderin