You will hear some silence while you wait
Joachim Pense
system when a conference leader has not yet arrived. I just love that.
Joachim
Marius Hancu
> The subject line is what they announce in my company's phone conference
> system when a conference leader has not yet arrived. I just love that.
Memorable.
Leslie Danks
Prai Jei
continuum:
> The subject line is what they announce in my company's phone conference
> system when a conference leader has not yet arrived. I just love that.
If you're kept waiting for precisely 4 minutes and 33 seconds, can John Cage
sue for plagiarism?
--
ξ:) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<pvstownse...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>Joachim Pense set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
>continuum:
>
>> The subject line is what they announce in my company's phone conference
>> system when a conference leader has not yet arrived. I just love that.
>
>If you're kept waiting for precisely 4 minutes and 33 seconds, can John Cage
>sue for plagiarism?
Not a hope. John Cage might have copyright of 4 minutes and 33 seconds
silence but he hasn't got the copyright of a sequences of silences of
various lengths interspersed with pauses which by chance total 4 minutes
and 33 seconds. There is an infinite number of such sequences.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Moylan
> The subject line is what they announce in my company's phone conference
> system when a conference leader has not yet arrived. I just love that.
Thanks. You've just managed to plant a vision in my brain.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
So the clip says, but can you hear the sound of silence?
--
Regards,
Chuck Riggs,
An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE
R H Draney
>
>On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:58:58 +0100, Leslie Danks <leslie...@aon.at>
>wrote:
>
>>Marius Hancu wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 23, 11:16 am, Joachim Pense <s...@pense-mainz.eu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The subject line is what they announce in my company's phone conference
>>>> system when a conference leader has not yet arrived. I just love that.
>>>
>>> Memorable.
>>
>>Here's what you'll hear:
>>
>><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raRaxt_KM9Q>
>
>So the clip says, but can you hear the sound of silence?
The sound of one hand clapping, innit?...r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Hatunen
<chr...@eircom.net> wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:58:58 +0100, Leslie Danks <leslie...@aon.at>
>wrote:
>
>>Marius Hancu wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 23, 11:16 am, Joachim Pense <s...@pense-mainz.eu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The subject line is what they announce in my company's phone conference
>>>> system when a conference leader has not yet arrived. I just love that.
>>>
>>> Memorable.
>>
>>Here's what you'll hear:
>>
>><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raRaxt_KM9Q>
>
>So the clip says, but can you hear the sound of silence?
I don's see why hearing silence is any different than seeing
black.
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hat...@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
franzi
> On Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:46:02 +0000, Chuck Riggs
>
>
>
> >On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:58:58 +0100, Leslie Danks <leslie.da...@aon.at>
> >wrote:
>
> >>Marius Hancu wrote:
>
> >>> On Nov 23, 11:16 am, Joachim Pense <s...@pense-mainz.eu> wrote:
>
> >>>> The subject line is what they announce in my company's phone conference
> >>>> system when a conference leader has not yet arrived. I just love that.
>
> >>> Memorable.
>
> >>Here's what you'll hear:
>
> >><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raRaxt_KM9Q>
>
> >So the clip says, but can you hear the sound of silence?
>
> I don's see why hearing silence is any different than seeing
> black.
>
goes back to Milton, J., has the Good English Seal of Approval; so no
light, but rather darkness visible, is good authority for silence
audible.
--
franzi
Robert Bannister
But can you actually hear it?
--
Rob Bannister
Arcadian Rises
You hear nothing.
Frank ess
For some meanings of "hear". Tinnitus means I never hear nothing.
--
Frank ess
Donna Richoux
If it is not your sense of hearing that identifies that silence is
occurring, then what is it? You don't smell it.
I remember it being pointed out, I think during a tour of a gold mine in
Colorado, that we were experiencing total silence at some spot, and that
what you actually hear is a loud rushing in your ears, from your blood
pressure and so on. So that would say no, you never really experience
true absence of sound, your hearing organs just move to a new level of
sensitivity.
But how nice that the phone company didn't put on Muzak.
--
Best -- Donna Richoux
Mike Barnes
>On Nov 24, 9:030 >> Joachim Pense wrote:
>> > The subject line is what they announce in my company's phone conference
>> > system when a conference leader has not yet arrived. I just love that.
>>
>> > Joachim
>>
>> But can you actually hear it?
>
>You hear nothing.
The only time I can hear nothing, or see nothing for that matter, is
when I'm unconscious. If the organ is receiving no signal, the gain
increases to the extent that noise is apparent. I assume that's true of
everyone, though I have no way of knowing.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Mike Barnes
[on hold]
>But how nice that the phone company didn't put on Muzak.
I agree totally. There's only one thing worse than music-on-hold, and
that's advertisements-on-hold.
Arcadian Rises
> Arcadian Rises <Arcadianri...@aol.com>:
True. If you cannot hear anything else (because you're surrounded by
quietude), you can still hear your breath or your heart throb.
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
>Chuck Riggs filted:
>>
>>On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 17:58:58 +0100, Leslie Danks <leslie...@aon.at>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Marius Hancu wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Nov 23, 11:16 am, Joachim Pense <s...@pense-mainz.eu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The subject line is what they announce in my company's phone conference
>>>>> system when a conference leader has not yet arrived. I just love that.
>>>>
>>>> Memorable.
>>>
>>>Here's what you'll hear:
>>>
>>><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raRaxt_KM9Q>
>>
>>So the clip says, but can you hear the sound of silence?
>
>The sound of one hand clapping, innit?...r
If you hear the sound of silence, you're loopy, but if you can hear
the sound of one hand clapping, even for a moment, you've been reading
too much Zen literature.
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
I took a tour of a cave where the guide shut off the lights so we
could experience what true darkness was like. I normally enjoy the
dark, but I wouldn't want to be in total darkness for long. From the
sounds of relief I heard when the lights came on, I think many of us
felt much the same way.
Frank ess
I remember reading of an on-point experiment in the early 1960s: an
implant in the auditory nerve of a cat amplified the impulses it
sensed. A "click" was sounded in the cat's environment at regular
intervals, and each caused a spike on a graphical display. After a
short length of time, a few minutes, the click continued but the sound
did not cause a spike on the display. When a mouse was introduced, the
click's spike returned.
Seemed as if "attention" could inhibit or facilitate the transmission
of an impulse in the auditory nerve.
--
Frank ess
R H Draney
>>
>>The sound of one hand clapping, innit?...r
>
>If you hear the sound of silence, you're loopy, but if you can hear
>the sound of one hand clapping, even for a moment, you've been reading
>too much Zen literature.
How about the sound of Slow Hand Clapton?...r
John Varela
wrote:
> If you hear the sound of silence, you're loopy, but if you can hear
> the sound of one hand clapping, even for a moment, you've been reading
> too much Zen literature.
I know the sound of silence: it's called "tinnitus".
--
John Varela
Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
Hatunen
wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:32:46 UTC, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
>wrote:
>
>> If you hear the sound of silence, you're loopy, but if you can hear
>> the sound of one hand clapping, even for a moment, you've been reading
>> too much Zen literature.
>
>I know the sound of silence: it's called "tinnitus".
You too, huh?
Skitt
> "John Varela" wrote:
>> Chuck Riggs wrote:
>>> If you hear the sound of silence, you're loopy, but if you can hear
>>> the sound of one hand clapping, even for a moment, you've been
>>> reading too much Zen literature.
>>
>> I know the sound of silence: it's called "tinnitus".
>
> You too, huh?
Don't remind me.
--
Skitt (AmE)
John Varela
> On 25 Nov 2009 20:01:57 GMT, "John Varela" <OLDl...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:32:46 UTC, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
> >wrote:
> >
> >> If you hear the sound of silence, you're loopy, but if you can hear
> >> the sound of one hand clapping, even for a moment, you've been reading
> >> too much Zen literature.
> >
> >I know the sound of silence: it's called "tinnitus".
>
> You too, huh?
It comes and goes.
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:06:06 UTC, Hatunen <hat...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On 25 Nov 2009 20:01:57 GMT, "John Varela" <OLDl...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:32:46 UTC, Chuck Riggs <chr...@eircom.net>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> If you hear the sound of silence, you're loopy, but if you can hear
>> >> the sound of one hand clapping, even for a moment, you've been reading
>> >> too much Zen literature.
>> >
>> >I know the sound of silence: it's called "tinnitus".
>>
>> You too, huh?
>
>It comes and goes.
For me it finally went. Until about ten years ago, it was only
irritating at times, but when I was a teenager it was often a real
bitch. At its worst back then, it sounded like shouting in my ears,
day and night. Other than upping the level of my blood pressure
medicine, doctors could do little for it.
Peter Moylan
I keep meaning to measure the frequency spectrum of my tinnitus. From
something that happened at work a while ago, when I was doing some sound
tests, I suspect that I have a sharp resonance at one particular
frequency, but I never got around to repeating the experiment.
It seems to me that knowing the frequency content would go some way
towards establishing a cause, from which there might be some hope of a
cure for at least some variants of tinnitus. I have the impression that
the medical profession has never done such tests. Certainly, the audio
equipment used by the people who do hearing tests strikes me as being
rather crude. At my last hearing test I was even told that the results
wouldn't be accurate because they didn't have any way to account for the
tinnitus. The fellow didn't quite say that people with tinnitus
shouldn't have hearing tests, but he came close.
Nick
>>Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl>:
> [on hold]
>>But how nice that the phone company didn't put on Muzak.
>
> I agree totally. There's only one thing worse than music-on-hold, and
> that's advertisements-on-hold.
I was stuck on hold yesterday with silence, but interrupted every 30
seconds or so to tell me that they were still busy. I think I'd rather
have had music with no announcements, I could much more easily have done
something else while waiting without missing the moment when they did
hand me over to someone.
--
Online waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk
development version: http://canalplan.eu
the Omrud
> Mike Barnes <mikeb...@bluebottle.com> writes:
>
>>> Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl>:
>> [on hold]
>>> But how nice that the phone company didn't put on Muzak.
>> I agree totally. There's only one thing worse than music-on-hold, and
>> that's advertisements-on-hold.
>
> I was stuck on hold yesterday with silence, but interrupted every 30
> seconds or so to tell me that they were still busy. I think I'd rather
> have had music with no announcements, I could much more easily have done
> something else while waiting without missing the moment when they did
> hand me over to someone.
Our new voice conferencing service says "You will now hear music until
the chairperson joins" and then interrupts the music every 20 seconds to
tell you that that you will now hear music until the chairperson joins.
--
David
Mike Barnes
>Mike Barnes <mikeb...@bluebottle.com> writes:
>
>>>Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl>:
>> [on hold]
>>>But how nice that the phone company didn't put on Muzak.
>>
>> I agree totally. There's only one thing worse than music-on-hold, and
>> that's advertisements-on-hold.
>
>I was stuck on hold yesterday with silence, but interrupted every 30
>seconds or so to tell me that they were still busy. I think I'd rather
>have had music with no announcements,
For me it depends. Often I'm already listening to my own choice of music
played softly through a decent sound system, so music-on-hold is the
very worst option.
Mike Barnes
>Our new voice conferencing service says "You will now hear music until
>the chairperson joins" and then interrupts the music every 20 seconds
>to tell you that that you will now hear music until the chairperson
>joins.
The worst example of that I ever came across restarted the music from
the beginning after each announcement.
Peter Moylan
The other day I was listening to the radio, and we got six songs in
succession without interruption. There was an interruption between songs
to tell us so.
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
I've been disappointed by hearing test technicians and their test
results, too. After my last test I was told there was some high
frequency roll-off, which I was well aware of and not concerned about,
since it is common in older men, but they had no information on how
many dB down my hearing over the entire spectrum was.
Since I sometimes have trouble hearing what people say and I'm often
told that my TV is too loud, I probably need a hearing aid, but I have
no test results to back that up. I've been putting off asking for
another test mainly because I can listen to CDs on good earphones and
I have a quality set of wireless earphones for the TV, nuisance that
they are, for late at night when I might disturb someone, otherwise.
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
>the Omrud wrote:
Except for when they play nearly uninterrupted sacred music Sunday
mornings, even my favourite station in Ireland, Lyric FM, is nearly
hopeless. Six mornings out of seven, CDs are the answer for me.
R H Draney
>
>Since I sometimes have trouble hearing what people say and I'm often
>told that my TV is too loud, I probably need a hearing aid, but I have
>no test results to back that up. I've been putting off asking for
>another test mainly because I can listen to CDs on good earphones and
>I have a quality set of wireless earphones for the TV, nuisance that
>they are, for late at night when I might disturb someone, otherwise.
If you finally decide to go for the hearing aids, you may find that all kinds of
things are going on that you've become unaware of...my mother noticed that the
volume on her TV set was *much* too loud, that her co-workers were constantly
chit-chatting, and that urination was *not* a silent process....r
R H Draney
>
>On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:10:44 +1100, Peter Moylan <gro.nalyomp@retep>
>wrote:
>>
>>succession without interruption. There was an interruption between songs
>>to tell us so.
>
>Except for when they play nearly uninterrupted sacred music Sunday
>mornings, even my favourite station in Ireland, Lyric FM, is nearly
>hopeless. Six mornings out of seven, CDs are the answer for me.
Three or four songs in a row, followed by a block of three or four short
"station identification" clips, is the format on Taiwan Radio...no in-studio
announcers, no commercials, and they don't mix the beginning of one song over
the end of the one preceding it...it's wonderful....r
Hatunen
<3-no...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>Mike Barnes <mikeb...@bluebottle.com> writes:
>
>>>Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl>:
>> [on hold]
>>>But how nice that the phone company didn't put on Muzak.
>>
>> I agree totally. There's only one thing worse than music-on-hold, and
>> that's advertisements-on-hold.
>
>I was stuck on hold yesterday with silence, but interrupted every 30
>seconds or so to tell me that they were still busy. I think I'd rather
>have had music with no announcements, I could much more easily have done
>something else while waiting without missing the moment when they did
>hand me over to someone.
If I could choose the music that would be fine. But sometimes the
music is not something I like, or worse, is of very poor
fidelity.
Robert Bannister
> If I could choose the music that would be fine. But sometimes the
> music is not something I like
Hmm... I used to like "F�r Elise" and a number of other melodies that
telephones have now put me off.
--
Rob Bannister
Skitt
For some reason I never did like "F�r Elise". The dislike started when I
was a mere child, and my dad played it fairly often.
--
Skitt (AmE)
Robert Bannister
> Robert Bannister <rob...@bigpond.com> writes:
>> Hmm... I used to like "F�r Elise" and a number of other melodies that
>> telephones have now put me off.
>
> alternative rock and for men exposed to classical music"
>
> http://www.newsweek.com/id/211862
>
An interesting article. It's nice to know that people are earning their
PhDs with worthwhile study at the cutting edge of modern living. While
waiting last week, I was told three times that I was second in the queue
and had but one further minute to wait.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Bannister
You see: that was the beginning of pointless waiting around f�r you and
good training for modern communications.
--
Rob Bannister
Jerry Friedman
> >I think I'd rather
> >have had music with no announcements, I could much more easily have done
> >something else while waiting without missing the moment when they did
> >hand me over to someone.
>
> If I could choose the music that would be fine. But sometimes the
> music is not something I like, or worse, is of very poor
> fidelity.
Press 1 for Bach. Press 2 for Bix. Press 3 for the Beatles. Press 4
for Beyonce.
*goes off to make fortune*
--
Jerry Friedman
Steve Hayes
Press 5 for us to call you back when a consultant is available.
Now *that* was a worthwhile invention.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
>
> Hatunen wrote:
[...]
>> If I could choose the music that would be fine. But sometimes the
>> music is not something I like, or worse, is of very poor fidelity.
>
> Press 1 for Bach. Press 2 for Bix. Press 3 for the Beatles.
> Press 4 for Beyonce.
>
> *goes off to make fortune*
>
Latino friends: "Oprima el dos para espa�ol" [Press 2 for Spanish] and
similar announcements. Same in New Mexico and Arizona?
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Jerry Friedman
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
> > Hatunen wrote:
> [...]
> >> If I could choose the music that would be fine. But sometimes the
> >> music is not something I like, or worse, is of very poor fidelity.
>
> > Press 1 for Bach. Press 2 for Bix. Press 3 for the Beatles.
> > Press 4 for Beyonce.
>
> > *goes off to make fortune*
>
> Sorry, Jerry, in California, "Press 2" has been pre-empted for our
> similar announcements. Same in New Mexico and Arizona?
I've certainly heard that from nationwide companies. I doubt that
it's because they know I'm in New Mexico.
--
Jerry Friedman
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
>
> Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>> Hatunen wrote:
>> [...]
>>>> If I could choose the music that would be fine. But sometimes the
>>>> music is not something I like, or worse, is of very poor fidelity.
>>
>>> Press 1 for Bach. �Press 2 for Bix. �Press 3 for the Beatles.
>>> Press 4 for Beyonce.
>>
>>> *goes off to make fortune*
>>
>> Sorry, Jerry, in California, "Press 2" has been pre-empted for our
>> and similar announcements. �Same in New Mexico and Arizona?
>
> I've certainly heard that from nationwide companies. I doubt that
> it's because they know I'm in New Mexico.
>
bank, where "Press 2" is for the Spanish telephone menu.
For others: Do they have Gaelic options in Ireland and Welsh ones in Wales?
Mike Barnes
Press 0 for silence. Thank you.
In an airport-hotel shuttle recently I was handed a printed card showing
a menu of musical genres that I might care to listen to on the five-
minute journey. Silence wasn't listed but I chose it anyway.
James Hogg
Press 5 for Barker, Les.
--
James
Nick
> On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 08:11:19 +0000, Nick
> <3-no...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>Mike Barnes <mikeb...@bluebottle.com> writes:
>>
>>>>Donna Richoux <tr...@euronet.nl>:
>>> [on hold]
>>>>But how nice that the phone company didn't put on Muzak.
>>>
>>> I agree totally. There's only one thing worse than music-on-hold, and
>>> that's advertisements-on-hold.
>>
>>I was stuck on hold yesterday with silence, but interrupted every 30
>>seconds or so to tell me that they were still busy. I think I'd rather
>>have had music with no announcements, I could much more easily have done
>>something else while waiting without missing the moment when they did
>>hand me over to someone.
>
> If I could choose the music that would be fine. But sometimes the
> music is not something I like, or worse, is of very poor
> fidelity.
I'd have been happy to have the Four Seasons played on a stylophone - I
could have kept the handset far enough from me just to be aware that it
was still playing, and grabbed it when it changed.
But every time a voice cut in, I had to give it my attention to see if it
was a human or a recording.
the Omrud
> I'd have been happy to have the Four Seasons played on a stylophone - I
> could have kept the handset far enough from me just to be aware that it
> was still playing, and grabbed it when it changed.
Woolworth (the business which bought the name, rather than the
sadly-missed shop) can assist:
http://www.woolworths.co.uk/rf/wlo/p.do/jewellery-gifts/games-gadgets/gifts/stylophone?A=6382658414285427969015
http://tinyurl.com/y8a38eg
--
David
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
>Chuck Riggs filted:
>>
>>Since I sometimes have trouble hearing what people say and I'm often
>>told that my TV is too loud, I probably need a hearing aid, but I have
>>no test results to back that up. I've been putting off asking for
>>another test mainly because I can listen to CDs on good earphones and
>>I have a quality set of wireless earphones for the TV, nuisance that
>>they are, for late at night when I might disturb someone, otherwise.
>
>If you finally decide to go for the hearing aids, you may find that all kinds of
>things are going on that you've become unaware of...my mother noticed that the
>volume on her TV set was *much* too loud, that her co-workers were constantly
>chit-chatting, and that urination was *not* a silent process....r
The first thing I'll want to know, if I get one, is how to work the
volume control. This large, echoey room can be very unpleasant when
certain people converse, so I'll want to know where the off switch is,
too.
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
>Chuck Riggs filted:
>>
>>On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 21:10:44 +1100, Peter Moylan <gro.nalyomp@retep>
>>wrote:
>>>
>>>The other day I was listening to the radio, and we got six songs in
>>>succession without interruption. There was an interruption between songs
>>>to tell us so.
>>
>>Except for when they play nearly uninterrupted sacred music Sunday
>>mornings, even my favourite station in Ireland, Lyric FM, is nearly
>>hopeless. Six mornings out of seven, CDs are the answer for me.
>
>Three or four songs in a row, followed by a block of three or four short
>"station identification" clips, is the format on Taiwan Radio...no in-studio
>announcers, no commercials, and they don't mix the beginning of one song over
>the end of the one preceding it...it's wonderful....r
Our Irish language station plays a nice balance of folk and rock 'n'
roll classics some mornings, with few interruptions, but learning
their schedule has been a challenge.
Chuck Riggs
I'm sure Gaelic options are offered in the Gaeltacht, but I've never
heard them in the Dublin area.
Hatunen
My hearing aids had [*] no volume controls, But they had some
pretty sophisticated electronics that help keep noise levels at a
comfortable setting. The audiologist had a computer which took my
hearing curves and adjusted the aids quite nicely.
[*] They got stolen from my hotel room while I was on a trip and
I've never replaced them. Yet.
Hatunen
<am...@sonic.net> wrote:
I've heard "oprima dos" and "oprima nueve". And some others, I
seem to recall.
R H Draney
>
>On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:22:34 +0000, Chuck Riggs
><chr...@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>>On 27 Nov 2009 12:31:52 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net>
>>wrote:
>>>
>>>things are going on that you've become unaware of...my mother noticed that the
>>>volume on her TV set was *much* too loud, that her co-workers were constantly
>>>chit-chatting, and that urination was *not* a silent process....r
>>
>>The first thing I'll want to know, if I get one, is how to work the
>>volume control. This large, echoey room can be very unpleasant when
>>certain people converse, so I'll want to know where the off switch is,
>>too.
>
>My hearing aids had [*] no volume controls, But they had some
>pretty sophisticated electronics that help keep noise levels at a
>comfortable setting. The audiologist had a computer which took my
>hearing curves and adjusted the aids quite nicely.
Mom's hearing aids had no off switch, but could be turned down to the point
where they were essentially inert lumps of plastic...adjusting the volume was
achieved by sticking the tip of a finger in one's ear and rotating (the
fingertip engages a tiny wheel on the exposed end of the device)...during this
operation the wearer, and anyone else within a couple of feet, hears a
high-pitched squeal; I'm told this is to keep pets from carrying off the hearing
aid when they find it out of the ear....r
Pat Durkin
news:hertm...@drn.newsguy.com...
My brother-in-law, of course, being stone deaf, doesn't hear the
squeal. Not at all. His physicians have told him to stay away from
(whatever company sold him the hearing aids for $,4000), since they
are not in any way certified for diagnosing ear problems. Not that
the doctors have helped. (No, not much. STS anyone?)
The expensive set doesn't work.
Robin Bignall
wrote:
Press 6 for Barker, Lex. Cheetah and Jane will keep you amused.
--
Robin
(BrE)
Herts, England
Roland Hutchinson
"With or without vibrato" -- I wish some other instruments (and some
people I have known) came that way.
--
Roland Hutchinson
He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
the Omrud
> On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:09:14 +0000, the Omrud wrote:
>
>> Nick wrote:
>>
>>> I'd have been happy to have the Four Seasons played on a stylophone - I
>>> could have kept the handset far enough from me just to be aware that it
>>> was still playing, and grabbed it when it changed.
>> Woolworth (the business which bought the name, rather than the
>> sadly-missed shop) can assist:
>> http://www.woolworths.co.uk/rf/wlo/p.do/jewellery-gifts/games-gadgets/gifts/stylophone?A=6382658414285427969015
>> http://tinyurl.com/y8a38eg
>
> "With or without vibrato" -- I wish some other instruments (and some
> people I have known) came that way.
I hear you. One of my choirs is an Early Music group. Membership is by
"self selection" - if people don't fit in, they leave fairly quickly
(membership fees are not collected for several weeks). But there is one
rule: "No Vibrato".
--
David
Roland Hutchinson
Quick 'n' dirty trick for coaching modern-trained string players (with no
period-instrument experience[1]) in playing Baroque music: insist on
absolutely no vibrato. If they cooperate and try with all their might to
play with no vibrato whatsoever, an appropriate amount (to a good
approximation) will creep back in despite their efforts--and mostly in
the right places. (Then you can explain the trick to them.)
[1] I don't know if you can find any of those in Britain still -- they
abound here.
the Omrud
> Quick 'n' dirty trick for coaching modern-trained string players (with no
> period-instrument experience[1]) in playing Baroque music: insist on
> absolutely no vibrato. If they cooperate and try with all their might to
> play with no vibrato whatsoever, an appropriate amount (to a good
> approximation) will creep back in despite their efforts--and mostly in
> the right places. (Then you can explain the trick to them.)
>
> [1] I don't know if you can find any of those in Britain still -- they
> abound here.
Oh, sure, I think there are plenty of them here as well. I wonder if my
sister could manage to play her cello without vibrato.
--
David
Richard Chambers
A couple of years ago, a debate started in Britain about whether we are
perhaps doing too much of that sort of thing. The controversy started when a
town council put up a notice by a village pond, in Polish, saying "No
fishing". The main offenders were known (but how?) to be Polish, which is
why the town council chose that language.
Britain now has immigrant populations from almost every corner of the globe.
The perceived laziness of some of these immigrants, who do not bother to
learn the standard language of the country they have emigrated to, is costly
to the taxpayer. The cost has been estimated to be several hundreds of
millions of Pounds per year. Probably about �10 per year, per taxpayer.
My wife is a health visitor. In the current situation where mothers of
new-born babies are in and out of maternity hospital within 24 hours, this
work is important. Her job is to visit mothers of new-born babies, in their
own homes. The objective is to provide health advice, training to first-time
mothers for the care of a new-born baby, advice on breast-feeding, on
inoculations, etc. A surprisingly high number of the mothers my wife visits
are immigrants, and cannot speak a word of English. The cost of the visit to
the National Health Service is often more than doubled, because of the
additional need to hire an interpreter. The cost is considerable. Add to
this the cost of interpreters to other local council services, such as the
police, the courts, etc, and I can well understand how the cost to the
taxpayer is as high as claimed.
This splits the government itself. Some government spokesmen say that we
are, at great cost, pandering to gross laziness. In their view, if we
stopped pandering to their laziness, and allowed them to suffer the
consequences, this type of immigrant would have an incentive to start
learning. In the long run, both they, and the rest of the country, would be
a lot happier for it. Other government departments say that such an idea is
impossible to implement. The first immigrant to die of cancer because he/she
could not explain the symptoms to a doctor, would raise an outcry in the
Press against the National Health Service.
Richard Chambers Leeds UK.
Richard Chambers
They do have Welsh options in Wales. I believe that it is a requirement of
the law. I have, on one occasion, come across a Welsh option for a public
telephone in England.
Driving into Wales from England along the A55 (out of Chester towards Conwy)
is very confusing. Just after the border, there is a very large junction,
with turnings to Queensferry, Mold, a Steelworks, and a number of other
places. By law, all of the places listed on the roadsigns in Wales must be
in both English and Welsh. The result is that the road signs have double the
number of place-names to read. If you approach the junction at speed, you do
not have time to read everything, and you miss your turning.
Richard Chambers Leeds UK.
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<richard.cham...@ntlworld.net> wrote:
>A couple of years ago, a debate started in Britain about whether we are
>perhaps doing too much of that sort of thing. The controversy started when a
>town council put up a notice by a village pond, in Polish, saying "No
>fishing". The main offenders were known (but how?) to be Polish, which is
>why the town council chose that language.
A few years ago a government body in Northern Ireland advertised a
senior post. The advert was in English, Ulster-Scots, Chinese and
Irish[1]. This was greeted with raised eyebrows, restrained comment,
criticism and outright derision. The nature of the job required the
person to be fluent in English. Advertising it to anyone who did not
have the appropriate level of English was a waste of time and money.
[1] Those languages are listed in descending order of the number of
native users.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Chuck Riggs
Once I'm certified as hearing-impaired, I believe the state will
supply me with a hearing aid. I passed my last test.
Chuck Riggs
wrote:
Good grief. You're saying I'll have to stick my finger in my ear?
Chuck Riggs
Who'd want vibrato all the time? No worries, though, for since she can
play staccato, I am sure, playing a note without vibrato ought to be a
piece of cake.
James Hogg
> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:08:56 -0000, "Richard Chambers"
> <richard.cham...@ntlworld.net> wrote:
>
>> A couple of years ago, a debate started in Britain about whether
>> we are perhaps doing too much of that sort of thing. The
>> controversy started when a town council put up a notice by a
>> village pond, in Polish, saying "No fishing". The main offenders
>> were known (but how?) to be Polish, which is why the town council
>> chose that language.
>
> A few years ago a government body in Northern Ireland advertised a
> senior post. The advert was in English, Ulster-Scots, Chinese and
> Irish[1]. This was greeted with raised eyebrows, restrained comment,
> criticism and outright derision.
Only by people who though it was ridiculous to call an Equality Schemes
Manager an "Eeksie-Peeksie Skame Heid-Yin".
--
James
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
wrote:
>Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
Folks, if you think James is joking you are misleart.
It seems to me that such apparently comical wordings arise from the fact
that Ulster-Scots is a predominantly spoken language that is full of
colloquialisms and informal words and phrases. It seems to lack a formal
register with formal words, so the informal ones have to be pressed into
service for formal use.
(I am not knowledgeable about the language. I hear it spoken and
sometimes read it.)
Jerry Friedman
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
> > Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
> >> Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >>> Hatunen wrote:
> >> [...]
> >>>> If I could choose the music that would be fine. But sometimes the
> >>>> music is not something I like, or worse, is of very poor fidelity.
>
> >>> Press 1 for Bach. Press 2 for Bix. Press 3 for the Beatles.
> >>> Press 4 for Beyonce.
>
> >>> *goes off to make fortune*
>
> >> Sorry, Jerry, in California, "Press 2" has been pre-empted for our
> >> and similar announcements. Same in New Mexico and Arizona?
>
> > I've certainly heard that from nationwide companies. I doubt that
> > it's because they know I'm in New Mexico.
>
> I meant *local* companies, such as your NM, Hatunen's AZ, and my CA
> bank, where "Press 2" is for the Spanish telephone menu.
My bank doesn't give an option to hear the (simple) instructions in
Spanish, somewhat to my surprise. In general, I get these menus from
national organizations more often than from local ones. Like Dave
Hatunen, I've heard both "Oprima el dos" and "Oprima el nueve", I'm
pretty sure, and maybe "cinco" and others as well.
Of course, the point in the menu where you'd choose music (or silence)
would be different from the point where you'd choose a language.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
<ma...@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 16:40:46 +0100, James Hogg <Jas....@gOUTmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>>> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 14:08:56 -0000, "Richard Chambers"
>>> <richard.cham...@ntlworld.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A couple of years ago, a debate started in Britain about whether
>>>> we are perhaps doing too much of that sort of thing. The
>>>> controversy started when a town council put up a notice by a
>>>> village pond, in Polish, saying "No fishing". The main offenders
>>>> were known (but how?) to be Polish, which is why the town council
>>>> chose that language.
>>>
>>> A few years ago a government body in Northern Ireland advertised a
>>> senior post. The advert was in English, Ulster-Scots, Chinese and
>>> Irish[1]. This was greeted with raised eyebrows, restrained comment,
>>> criticism and outright derision.
>>
>>Only by people who though it was ridiculous to call an Equality Schemes
>>Manager an "Eeksie-Peeksie Skame Heid-Yin".
>
There is a cartoon in the edition of today's Sunday Times (of London) on
sale in Northern Ireland. A man and woman are sitting at a desk with
microphones in front of them. On the wall behind is a sign "European
Parliament". The woman, a redhead, is holding a document titled
"Equality for Minority Lingos". The man is saying to her "You don't need
to speak Ulster Scots here - you need to talk tosh".
R H Draney
>>where they were essentially inert lumps of plastic...adjusting the volume was
>>achieved by sticking the tip of a finger in one's ear and rotating (the
>>fingertip engages a tiny wheel on the exposed end of the device)...during this
>>operation the wearer, and anyone else within a couple of feet, hears a
>>high-pitched squeal; I'm told this is to keep pets from carrying off the hearing
>>aid when they find it out of the ear....r
>
>Good grief. You're saying I'll have to stick my finger in my ear?
Not necessarily...if it's easier for you to use your elbow, that would work just
as well....r
James Silverton
> Chuck Riggs filted:
>>
>> On 28 Nov 2009 11:29:22 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mom's hearing aids had no off switch, but could be turned
>>> down to the point where they were essentially inert lumps of
>>> plastic...adjusting the volume was achieved by sticking the
>>> tip of a finger in one's ear and rotating (the fingertip
>>> engages a tiny wheel on the exposed end of the
>>> device)...during this operation the wearer, and anyone else
>>> within a couple of feet, hears a high-pitched squeal; I'm
>>> told this is to keep pets from carrying off the hearing aid
>>> when they find it out of the ear....r
>>
>> Good grief. You're saying I'll have to stick my finger in my
>> ear?
> Not necessarily...if it's easier for you to use your elbow,
> that would work just as well....r
Traditional medical advice is that it is much safer.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Mike Lyle
[...]
>
> Driving into Wales from England along the A55 (out of Chester towards
> Conwy) is very confusing. Just after the border, there is a very
> large junction, with turnings to Queensferry, Mold, a Steelworks, and
> a number of other places. By law, all of the places listed on the
> roadsigns in Wales must be in both English and Welsh. The result is
> that the road signs have double the number of place-names to read. If
> you approach the junction at speed, you do not have time to read
> everything, and you miss your turning.
--
Mike.
Peter Moylan
> On Nov 27, 10:08 pm, Reinhold {Rey} Aman <a...@sonic.net> wrote:
>> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>
>>> Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>>>> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>>>> Hatunen wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>>>> If I could choose the music that would be fine. But
>>>>>> sometimes the music is not something I like, or worse, is
>>>>>> of very poor fidelity.
>>>>> Press 1 for Bach. Press 2 for Bix. Press 3 for the Beatles.
>>>>> Press 4 for Beyonce. *goes off to make fortune*
>>>> Sorry, Jerry, in California, "Press 2" has been pre-empted for
>>>> Spanish] and similar announcements. Same in New Mexico and
>>>> Arizona?
>>> I've certainly heard that from nationwide companies. I doubt
>>> that it's because they know I'm in New Mexico.
>> I meant *local* companies, such as your NM, Hatunen's AZ, and my CA
>> bank, where "Press 2" is for the Spanish telephone menu.
>
> My bank doesn't give an option to hear the (simple) instructions in
> Spanish, somewhat to my surprise. In general, I get these menus from
> national organizations more often than from local ones. Like Dave
> Hatunen, I've heard both "Oprima el dos" and "Oprima el nueve", I'm
> pretty sure, and maybe "cinco" and others as well.
>
> Of course, the point in the menu where you'd choose music (or
> silence) would be different from the point where you'd choose a
> language.
That leaves too many places to make a mistake. Suppose you didn't
understand Spanish, and you chose silence in Spanish when you had
intended to choose silence in English.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Peter Moylan
> My wife is a health visitor. In the current situation where mothers
> of new-born babies are in and out of maternity hospital within 24
> hours, this work is important. Her job is to visit mothers of
> new-born babies, in their own homes. The objective is to provide
> health advice, training to first-time mothers for the care of a
> new-born baby, advice on breast-feeding, on inoculations, etc. A
> surprisingly high number of the mothers my wife visits are
> immigrants, and cannot speak a word of English. The cost of the visit
> to the National Health Service is often more than doubled, because of
> the additional need to hire an interpreter. The cost is considerable.
> Add to this the cost of interpreters to other local council services,
> such as the police, the courts, etc, and I can well understand how
> the cost to the taxpayer is as high as claimed.
My ex-wife works for the interpreting section of the public health
section. A lot of the work they do is for recent immigrants, of course,
but there's another major group: those who _used_to_understand_English_,
but who are now losing it. Someone can be perfectly fluent in a second
language, but lose that second language as they grow old. I know one
person, Australian-born with a French mother, who lost the ability to
communicate with her mother as the mother grew older.
Another common situation is where someone is moderately fluent in
English, but not fully confident. Such a person can become flustered in
a medical emergency, and have great trouble finding the right words.
Indeed, I've been in that situation myself in a French hospital.
The whole question is enormously complicated. It's certainly clear that
some migrant groups integrate more easily than others. It's hard to have
sympathy with those want their adopted country to adjust to their own
customs and culture and religion but who refuse to make any concessions
to the customs and culture of the host country. Unfortunately that sort
of thing is becoming more common, presumably because those forced out of
their home country by war or economic collapse are less flexible than
those who migrate voluntarily. Still, the adoption of a tough line would
disadvantage the genuine cases as well.
Nick
> Good grief. You're saying I'll have to stick my finger in my ear?
You've been looking at those drawings on the gents' wall again, haven't
you?
--
Online waterways route planner: http://canalplan.org.uk
development version: http://canalplan.eu
Richard Bollard
I guess it could be argued that the advertisement could be seen by a
non-English speaker who could then think "that looks like a good job
for X" and bring it to X's attention. X may well be multi-lingual.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia
To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
Hatunen
<chr...@eircom.net> wrote:
>Once I'm certified as hearing-impaired, I believe the state will
>supply me with a hearing aid. I passed my last test.
Medicare paid for mine.
franzi
(very) Swiss, but, à propos the above, there was that little
referendum this morning (yesterday if you are clock-watching) in which
minarets were voted down. I understand that most Swiss musselmen are
DPs or voluntary immigrants from the Balkans, and of little religious
fervour. Still, better safe than sorry seems to be the watchword from
Arosa to Zug.
--
franzi
Mike Barnes
>Driving into Wales from England along the A55 (out of Chester towards Conwy)
>is very confusing. Just after the border, there is a very large junction,
>with turnings to Queensferry, Mold, a Steelworks, and a number of other
>places. By law, all of the places listed on the roadsigns in Wales must be
>in both English and Welsh. The result is that the road signs have double the
>number of place-names to read. If you approach the junction at speed, you do
>not have time to read everything, and you miss your turning.
The problem would be mitigated by using different lettering for the
Welsh. I can't believe they didn't do that.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
That might be illegal. The "typeface" is standard and was chosen to be
clear and readable at a distance, which it certainly is.
The style of characters is defined in the The Traffic Signs Regulations
and General Directions 2002:
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/si2002/20023113.htm#sch13
It might be possible for the relevant secretary of state to authorise
the use of a different letter style or size (with the approval of
Parliament) but who is to be discriminated against by having their
language in a non-standard typeface or in smaller letters, the users of
Welsh or of English? Race Relations laws would be invoked.
Jerry Friedman
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
> > On Nov 27, 10:08 pm, Reinhold {Rey} Aman <a...@sonic.net> wrote:
> >> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>
> >>> Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
> >>>> Jerry Friedman wrote:
> >>>>> Hatunen wrote:
> >>>> [...]
> >>>>>> If I could choose the music that would be fine. But
> >>>>>> sometimes the music is not something I like, or worse, is
> >>>>>> of very poor fidelity.
> >>>>> Press 1 for Bach. Press 2 for Bix. Press 3 for the Beatles.
> >>>>> Press 4 for Beyonce. *goes off to make fortune*
> >>>> Sorry, Jerry, in California, "Press 2" has been pre-empted for
> >>>> Spanish] and similar announcements. Same in New Mexico and
> >>>> Arizona?
> >>> I've certainly heard that from nationwide companies. I doubt
> >>> that it's because they know I'm in New Mexico.
> >> I meant *local* companies, such as your NM, Hatunen's AZ, and my CA
> >> bank, where "Press 2" is for the Spanish telephone menu.
>
> > My bank doesn't give an option to hear the (simple) instructions in
> > Spanish, somewhat to my surprise. In general, I get these menus from
> > national organizations more often than from local ones. Like Dave
> > Hatunen, I've heard both "Oprima el dos" and "Oprima el nueve", I'm
> > pretty sure, and maybe "cinco" and others as well.
>
> > Of course, the point in the menu where you'd choose music (or
> > silence) would be different from the point where you'd choose a
> > language.
>
> That leaves too many places to make a mistake. Suppose you didn't
> understand Spanish, and you chose silence in Spanish when you had
> intended to choose silence in English.
Or what if you got a Tchaikovsky symphony in English when you wanted
it in Spanish? What if you wanted Oscar Peterson in Tibetan? (Santa
Fe has a fair-sized community of Tibetans, as they didn't want to come
down too far in the world.) I can see this requires more thought.
"Para escuchar silencio de Juan Jaula, no oprima nada"?
--
Jerry Friedman
Mike Barnes
It's that kind of thinking that has made the UK the world power it is
today.
The Scots can manage it so why not the Welsh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A87-bilingual.jpg
James Hogg
And the Irish have been doing it for years, using case rather than
colour to distinguish the languages:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/21/35291159_abaca5cbbe.jpg?v=0
--
James
Chuck Riggs
<not.jim....@verizon.net> wrote:
> R wrote on 29 Nov 2009 09:41:39 -0800:
>
>> Chuck Riggs filted:
>>>
>>> On 28 Nov 2009 11:29:22 -0800, R H Draney <dado...@spamcop.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Mom's hearing aids had no off switch, but could be turned
>>>> down to the point where they were essentially inert lumps of
>>>> plastic...adjusting the volume was achieved by sticking the
>>>> tip of a finger in one's ear and rotating (the fingertip
>>>> engages a tiny wheel on the exposed end of the
>>>> device)...during this operation the wearer, and anyone else
>>>> within a couple of feet, hears a high-pitched squeal; I'm
>>>> told this is to keep pets from carrying off the hearing aid
>>>> when they find it out of the ear....r
>>>
>>> Good grief. You're saying I'll have to stick my finger in my
>>> ear?
>
>> Not necessarily...if it's easier for you to use your elbow,
>> that would work just as well....r
>
>Traditional medical advice is that it is much safer.
Nothing smaller than a finger inside an American-style washcloth is
safe, I have read.
Pat Durkin
news:sdbah5pk2l97d7lff...@4ax.com...
As a "standardized patient", I have just had my ears examined by no
fewer than 10 second-year medical students. Only two did not mention
my earwax (there was an instructor physician present at all times),
although they all recognized that I have excellent hearing (whispers,
rubbed fingers). I suppose they really could have said "I observe a
healthy eardrum in each ear", or "I cannot observe the eardrum because
of the amount of earwax." (I had immersed my head in good, warm soapy
water, and had used "Q-tips", and I think that removal of all earwax
is [a] not a good thing and [b] impossible to do anyway, since the ear
produces some quantity! My earwax never has a chance to turn hard. I
think I can feel it being produced, since my ears itch at times when
there are no flying insects about that might have gotten trapped, and
I don't retain water more than a few seconds after immersion.
But I don't know what these kids are being taught. I mean, how much
ear wax is normal? They will be tested next month, I suppose. These
were "teaching" and advanced "practice" sessions.
Chuck Riggs
My ears produce a lot of wax. In desperation, I've used my index
fingers, Q-tips and the rounded ends of paper clips to remove it. All
of these methods are dangerous, but I've come to the conclusion that
none of them are necessary. Now I just flush out my ears in the shower
most mornings and dry them well with a towel. The consensus among the
medical folk here is that the old method of syringing out the ear
canal is also dangerous, since ear drums have been punctured that way.
It was the method I had always relied on as a last resort, but no
more.
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Jerry Friedman wrote:
>>
>> Hatunen wrote:
> [...]
>>> If I could choose the music that would be fine. But sometimes the
>>> music is not something I like, or worse, is of very poor fidelity.
>>
>> Press 1 for Bach. Press 2 for Bix. Press 3 for the Beatles.
>> Press 4 for Beyonce.
>>
>> *goes off to make fortune*
>>
> Sorry, Jerry, in California, "Press 2" has been pre-empted for our
> Latino friends: "Oprima el dos para espa�ol" [Press 2 for Spanish] and
> similar announcements. Same in New Mexico and Arizona?
I think I hear "oprime el nueve" at least as often. I suspect that
the logic there is that they can decide later on that options for
English speakers can come and go at that point, but the Spanish
speakers can continue to press 9.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |You cannot solve problems with the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |same type of thinking that created
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |them.
| Albert Einstein
kirsh...@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572
Evan Kirshenbaum
> Reinhold {Rey} Aman <am...@sonic.net> writes:
>
>> Sorry, Jerry, in California, "Press 2" has been pre-empted for our
>> Latino friends: "Oprima el dos para espa�ol" [Press 2 for Spanish] and
>> similar announcements. Same in New Mexico and Arizona?
>
> I think I hear "oprime
Oh, lord. He spells as well in Spanish as he does in English.