what is the difference?
minimus
What is difference between using bracktes and two hypens?
bla bla (explanation) bla bla
bla bla - explanation - bla bla
Will
I fear that your example is lacking in useful content. Both methods
could be valid, but preference would depend on the actual sentence.
Unless you really mean "bla ba", followed by "explanation", followed
by "bla bla". In which case I suggest you seek medical attention
soonest.
Will.
angelgl...@yahoo.com
How can this abstract example help? "Blah, blah, blah," was a great song
by George and Ira Gershwin, but it's not a great example. If you're
serious about being helped, then give the actual sentences. Clearly a
parenthesis is different from a dash offset. Usually the parenthesis is
less rhetorical, more formal or impersonal. "Alfred Hitchcock's PSYCHO
(1960) was one of the master's legendary films." Or: "BATMAN; THE DARK
KNIGHT (Christopher Nolan, 2008) was Heath Ledger's last film."
Compare:
"Susan J. (20) has had four lovers since her 18th birthday."
(Sociological study)
"Susan Jenkins--all of twenty years old--has nothing to learn about
love. She has already had four lovers." (Novel)
"Susan Jenkins, twenty years old, has nothing to learn about love."
(Profile; less stress than the dashes above.)
PS: WILL SOME COMPUTER COMPANY PLEASE PUT A DASH ON THE NEXT MODEL
KEYBOARD. PLEASE! PRETTY PLEASE! It's long overdue.
Don Phillipson
news:g671j4$pkt$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> What is difference between using bracktes and two hypens?
>
> bla bla (explanation) bla bla
>
> bla bla - explanation - bla bla
This is discussed in the Chicago Manual of Style and
similar publications. (NB: two hyphens are a typewriter-
oriennted convention used also by computers because
they adopted the typewriter keyboard, with a hyphen
(en dash) but no em dash as used by typesetters. This
is also discussed in comprehensive style manuals.)
The advantage of such investigation is that, when we
reach a decision differing from the style manual, we
can offer our factual reasons and propose its debate in
NGs like this.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Cece
> "minimus" <mini...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
By the way, a hyphen is not an en dash. See the Merriam-Webster
Standard American Style Manual for a full discussion of the dash in
all its lengths.
Paul Wolff
>On Jul 23, 7:22 am, "Don Phillipson" <e...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
>> "minimus" <mini...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
>> news:g671j4$pkt$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>> > What is difference between using bracktes and two hypens?
>>
>> > bla bla (explanation) bla bla
>>
>> > bla bla - explanation - bla bla
>>
>> This is discussed in the Chicago Manual of Style and
>> similar publications. (NB: two hyphens are a typewriter-
>> oriennted convention used also by computers because
>> they adopted the typewriter keyboard, with a hyphen
>> (en dash) but no em dash as used by typesetters. This
>> is also discussed in comprehensive style manuals.)
>>
>> The advantage of such investigation is that, when we
>> reach a decision differing from the style manual, we
>> can offer our factual reasons and propose its debate in
>> NGs like this.
>
>Standard American Style Manual for a full discussion of the dash in
>all its lengths.
Is that really necessary? I'm a pronounced sceptic ("skeptic") when it
comes to dashes. My attitude is that writing begins with the pen, and
with the pen we can scrawl a dash between ideas, or a hyphen between
words that need to hang together, the former to separate and the latter
to join. All these typesetters' conventions about whose dash is the
longest seem, to me, to belong to art school and not to real literature.
Not that I wouldn't welcome a lucid exposition of What It All Means.
Especially one that takes full account of bractes and hypens in all
their aspects. They look rather biological, give or take a letter.
--
Paul
minimus
which is better:
Since the course is comprehensive, as it involves constraints and gradual
changes in preferences, age, income, and work hours, its conception is
elusive.
Since the course is comprehensive - as it involves constraints and gradual
changes in preferences, age, income, and work hours - its conception is
elusive.
I think using hypes, instead of commas, is better because it is more clear
that what is between the hypens is a side knowledge and is not the main
point of the sentence.
What do you think?
angelgl...@yahoo.com
dash. I would try a parenthesis instead of either the dash or the comma
style:
"Since the course is comprehensive (it involves constraints and gradual
changes in preference, age, income and work hours) its conception is
elusive."
But frankly the sentence has problems & I at least can't figure out what
it is you're saying, esp. in regard to what I put in parentheses. Others
may have their own point of view.
minimus
> it is you're saying, esp. in regard to what I put in parentheses. Others
> may have their own point of view.
The previous pharagraph preceeding it explains things. This is rather a
consequential sentence
minimus
> dash. I would try a parenthesis instead of either the dash or the comma
> style:
This exactly my question,
what is the difference between putting this sub clasue between two dahes and
a parantheses?
Fred Springer
The honest answer is that the choice between dashes and parentheses is
less a matter of settled convention, and more a matter of personal style
and preference.
But for what it's worth, here's what the /Oxford Guide to Style/ has to
say on the matter:
OUP and most US publishers use the unspaced (non-touching) em rule as a
parenthetical dash; other British publishers use the en rule with space
either side.
■ No punctuation should precede a single dash or the opening one of a
pair. A closing dash may be preceded by an exclamation or question mark,
but not by a comma, semicolon, colon, or full point. Do not capitalize a
word, other than a proper noun, after a dash, even if it begins a sentence.
■ Use the dash to clarify sentence structure, to express a more
pronounced break in sentence structure than commas, and to draw more
attention to the enclosed phrase than parentheses:
The party lasted—we knew it would!—far longer than planned.
Going—going—gone!
There is nothing—absolutely nothing—half so much worth doing as simply
messing about in boats.
A dash is easily overused in this context, and even a handful can appear
jarring on the page. To ensure this does not happen, replace frequent
instances with other punctuation such as commas and parentheses.
■ A single parenthetical dash may be used to introduce a phrase at the
end of a sentence or replace an introductory colon:
The people in the corner house are younger than their neighbours—and
more outgoing.
She has but one hobby—chocolate.
In England, justice is open to all—like the Ritz Hotel.
It is not used after a colon except in reproducing antique or
foreign-language typography.
minimus
John Kane
> Cece <ceceliaarmstr...@yahoo.com> wrote
There are good reasons for distinguishing among them.
http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/091502.htm
John Kane Kingston ON Canada
>
> Especially one that takes full account of bractes and hypens in all
> their aspects. They look rather biological, give or take a letter.
> --
> Paul- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Paul Wolff
>On Jul 23, 4:22 pm, Paul Wolff <bounc...@two.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>> Cece <ceceliaarmstr...@yahoo.com> wrote
>> >On Jul 23, 7:22 am, "Don Phillipson" <e...@SPAMBLOCK.ncf.ca> wrote:
>> >> "minimus" <mini...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
That article clearly explains that there are rules for writing three
different lengths of horizontal line as sentence or phrase punctuation
or as ideograms. But I remain unconvinced that there are good reasons
for making such a performance of typesetting the dashes I dash off with
my pen. If I want to join things with a hyphen, I leave out the spaces,
and if I want to separate things with a dash, I put spaces in. If I
want to use an en-dash instead of the word 'to' (or 'thru' or
'through'), I'll use a hyphen-style dash because it's conjunctive and
not disjunctive. The rest is hocus-pocus, devised by a printer with
nothing better to do on a wet afternoon in November.
--
Paul
Cece
> John Kane <jrkrid...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> - Show quoted text -
Before there were word processing programs -- before there were
computers other than gigantic mainframes! -- typing classes included
ways to use the hyphen to indicate en-dash and em-dash. See the em-
dashes in my first sentence? I took typing 1962 - 1964 -- see that en-
dash? Editors and compositors of the time understood these. Of
course, now there are no actual compositors or typographers; there are
word processors who have learned all they know from a certain CEO who
apparently doesn't even know how to type but insists that his is the
only way to do anything with a keyboard and has taught the programs he
publishes to do everything for everybody wrong.
Glenn Knickerbocker
> There are good reasons for distinguishing among them.
but I don't see any of them here:
> http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/091502.htm
Both in my own handwriting and in my web browser's rendition of that
page, the hyphen and the en-dash look identical and are placed
identically. All the page says about the difference is that "many
people were not even aware of" it.
In other pages (and printed) in other typefaces, I do see the
difference, but I'm still not sure I see its importance to anyone but
type mavens. I certainly wouldn't depend on my reader's ability to
distinguish the length of a short line to tell whether, say, "24-7"
meant something with two dozen number sevens (hyphen), something
available all day every day (en-dash), or seventeen of them (minus
sign).
ŹR
Glenn Knickerbocker
> In other pages (and printed) in other typefaces,
Ouch! I seem to be stuck somewhere between "print" and "printed
matter."
ŹR
John Holmes
> minimus wrote:
[asking about:]
>> Since the course is comprehensive - as it involves constraints and
>> gradual changes in preferences, age, income, and work hours - its
>> conception is elusive.
>>
> Dashes are too strong; anyway, I would omit the "as" before the first
> dash. I would try a parenthesis instead of either the dash or the
> comma style:
>
> "Since the course is comprehensive (it involves constraints and
> gradual changes in preference, age, income and work hours) its
> conception is elusive."
That works, but it needs a comma after the closing bracket. That's
another argument against using dashes: there would be nowhere to put the
comma.
--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au
Guglielmo Glaudini
I think a style guide would might say that with the dashes you don't
need a comma because you've paused enough already.
A comma has three main purposes:
To avoid ambiguity
To avoid false scent
To show a pause
The tired old argument that the comma is used only as a syntactic
marker should be laid to rest along with other useless artifacts.
Guglielmo Glaudini
<goo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I think a style guide would might say that with the dashes you don't
"""""""""""
>need a comma because you've paused enough already.
That's an edito. It could be "would" or "might," but not both.
I think I first wrote "would," then decided to soften it to "might."
Actually, I now realize that it was already softened by "I think."
Bottom line is I'm almost certain I've seen that advice in some style
guide.
Herignominious Boss
<goo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:28:11 -0700, Guglielmo Glaudini
><goo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>I think a style guide would might say that with the dashes you don't
> """""""""""
>>need a comma because you've paused enough already.
>
>That's an edito. It could be "would" or "might," but not both.
>
Interesting word there, "edito." I've seen "typo," "thinko," "fingo,"
and now "edito." What's next? Or what am I forgetting?
I can see where "thinko" and "edito" are unique in that set, but is
there really a difference between a typo and a fingo?