Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches

fabzorba

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Nov 10, 2012, 1:48:31 AM11/10/12

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Have a squiz at this from Sydney Morning Herald's Column 8. It's a cry
for help from a newly arrived Yank in Australia.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/column-8/column-8-20121106-28w1s.html

We have peanut butter in Oz by the ton. But never with jelly. (In
fact, we have '''jam'' on bread, never jelly. Jelly for us comes in
quivering little mounds in a bowl. )

And we don't have it with root beer, which most of us have never heard
of. (For decades I thought that was the Yank word for what we call
''ginger beer''.)

Now, this heart-felt plea has made me aware that it is not just any
old jelly you put on your peanut butter sangos. It's grape jelly, and
we apparently have not got that. What gives? Oz has more kinds of jam
than just about anywhere, whole rows in the supermarkets. And we grow
thousands of tons of grapes, including for our vignerons. How is it
that this poor lady so far from home, cannot find a jar of grape jelly
in Sydney, a food capital of the world?

Never tasted it myself, I must admit. Are all peanut butter sangos
made with grape jelly, or are other jellies allowed. I must admit I
CAN see how it work with something relatively plain like grape jelly,
and not with, say, raspberry or plum. We seem to follow the U.S. in so
much, but not, it appears in this one regard.

Joe Fineman

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Nov 10, 2012, 5:32:05 PM11/10/12

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fabzorba <myles....@gmail.com> writes:

> We have peanut butter in Oz by the ton. But never with jelly. (In
> fact, we have '''jam'' on bread, never jelly. Jelly for us comes in
> quivering little mounds in a bowl. )

I suspect (this keeps coming up) that Australia draws the line between
jam & jelly otherwise than the U.S. does. Here, a jelly is clear &
homogeneous, whereas a jam has bits of different parts of the fruit
squished in.

I am unAmerican in that I have never liked such sandwiches. For me,
the ideal accompaniment to peanut butter in a sandwich is cream
cheese.
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: People would never fall in love if they hadn't heard of it. :||

Harrison Hill

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Nov 10, 2012, 5:57:58 PM11/10/12

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On Nov 10, 10:33 pm, Joe Fineman <jo...@verizon.net> wrote:

> fabzorba <myles.abzo...@gmail.com> writes:
> > We have peanut butter in Oz by the ton. But never with jelly. (In
> > fact, we have '''jam'' on bread, never jelly. Jelly for us comes in
> > quivering little mounds in a bowl. )
>
> I suspect (this keeps coming up) that Australia draws the line between
> jam & jelly otherwise than the U.S. does. Here, a jelly is clear &
> homogeneous, whereas a jam has bits of different parts of the fruit
> squished in.
>
> I am unAmerican in that I have never liked such sandwiches. For me,
> the ideal accompaniment to peanut butter in a sandwich is cream
> cheese.

In the UK "jelly" is a wobbly transparent gelitine pudding or dessert,
served with cream.

"Jam" is a thick fruity substance (Strawberry, Raspberry, Blackcurrant
etc) associated with "pectin" (in which way I know not) scraped onto
bread or toast at any time of the day - exept morning. In the morning
for breakfast people in England would always have Orange (or
occasionaly Lemon) "marmalade" which is either "fine cut" or "thick
cut" according to the amount of peel left (deliberately) behind in it.

I see young Mums on our buses giving their kids a bag of crisps
telling them to "Eat your breakfast!"

R H Draney

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Nov 10, 2012, 7:12:56 PM11/10/12

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Harrison Hill filted:

>
>In the UK "jelly" is a wobbly transparent gelitine pudding or dessert,
>served with cream.

In the US we would recognize it as "jello", the genericized name that includes
the actual "Jell-O" brand....

>"Jam" is a thick fruity substance (Strawberry, Raspberry, Blackcurrant
>etc) associated with "pectin" (in which way I know not) scraped onto
>bread or toast at any time of the day - exept morning. In the morning
>for breakfast people in England would always have Orange (or
>occasionaly Lemon) "marmalade" which is either "fine cut" or "thick
>cut" according to the amount of peel left (deliberately) behind in it.

And what are "preserves" where you come from?...(if there's time, same question
re "compote")....

>I see young Mums on our buses giving their kids a bag of crisps
>telling them to "Eat your breakfast!"

That will tide them over til a "nourishing lunch for a nickel":

http://p2.la-img.com/48/360/169325_1_l.jpg

....r

--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

Garrett Wollman

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Nov 11, 2012, 12:03:05 AM11/11/12

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In article <a0a426f0-7516-43cf...@s12g2000vbw.googlegroups.com>,

Harrison Hill <harrison...@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Jam" is a thick fruity substance (Strawberry, Raspberry, Blackcurrant
>etc) associated with "pectin" (in which way I know not)

Pectin is a structural polymer found in most kinds of fruit which,
when cooked at low pH in the presence of sugar and water, gives you
the jamlike texture of jam. It's a polysaccharide, if I remember
correctly. When making jelly (AmE) or making jam from fruits that
don't have a lot of natural pectin, it must be added by the maker in
order for the product to set properly.

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

annily

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Nov 11, 2012, 3:22:21 AM11/11/12

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On 11.11.12 10:42, R H Draney wrote:
> Harrison Hill filted:
>>
>> In the UK "jelly" is a wobbly transparent gelitine pudding or dessert,
>> served with cream.
>
> In the US we would recognize it as "jello", the genericized name that includes
> the actual "Jell-O" brand....
>
>> "Jam" is a thick fruity substance (Strawberry, Raspberry, Blackcurrant
>> etc) associated with "pectin" (in which way I know not) scraped onto
>> bread or toast at any time of the day - exept morning. In the morning
>> for breakfast people in England would always have Orange (or
>> occasionaly Lemon) "marmalade" which is either "fine cut" or "thick
>> cut" according to the amount of peel left (deliberately) behind in it.
>
> And what are "preserves" where you come from?...(if there's time, same question
> re "compote")....
>

Here in Australia, I consider preserves to be pretty much the same as
jam. There may be a technical difference, but I'm not aware of it.

Compote is a word I haven't seen or used for ages. I seem to remember it
as a compote of fruit in motel menus, in which case I think it was just
a collection of different fruits (like a fruit salad)

John Holmes

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Nov 11, 2012, 4:44:47 AM11/11/12

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"Joe Fineman" <jo...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:utxsxd...@verizon.net...

> fabzorba <myles....@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> We have peanut butter in Oz by the ton. But never with jelly. (In
>> fact, we have '''jam'' on bread, never jelly. Jelly for us comes in
>> quivering little mounds in a bowl. )
>
> I suspect (this keeps coming up) that Australia draws the line between
> jam & jelly otherwise than the U.S. does. Here, a jelly is clear &
> homogeneous, whereas a jam has bits of different parts of the fruit
> squished in.

I think we have exactly the same distinction, but we don't make many jellies
at all. Jam is the generic name for fruit stuff that you spread on bread.

There are some home-made jellies such as apple, crab-apple or quince (and
very occasionally a few others), but you would be hard put to find a
commercial version of any of those. I've never seen grape jelly other than
American, and after tasting that I understand why. There is savoury mint
jelly for putting on roast lamb. All else does have "bits of different parts
of the fruit squished in", as you say, and is therefore jam -- apricot,
strawberry, raspberry, plum are the most common -- and marmalades.

--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au

Dr Nick

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Nov 11, 2012, 7:23:48 AM11/11/12

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annily <ann...@annily.invalid> writes:

> On 11.11.12 10:42, R H Draney wrote:
>> Harrison Hill filted:
>>> In the UK "jelly" is a wobbly transparent gelitine pudding or
>>> dessert, served with cream.
>> In the US we would recognize it as "jello", the genericized name
>> that includes the actual "Jell-O" brand....
>>
>>> "Jam" is a thick fruity substance (Strawberry, Raspberry,
>>> Blackcurrant etc) associated with "pectin" (in which way I know
>>> not) scraped onto bread or toast at any time of the day - exept
>>> morning. In the morning for breakfast people in England would
>>> always have Orange (or occasionaly Lemon) "marmalade" which is
>>> either "fine cut" or "thick cut" according to the amount of peel
>>> left (deliberately) behind in it.
>> And what are "preserves" where you come from?...(if there's time,
>> same question re "compote")....
>>
>
> Here in Australia, I consider preserves to be pretty much the same as
> jam. There may be a technical difference, but I'm not aware of it.

As I pointed out recently, there's a "sophistication" marker about
"preserve" and it's been around for a bit:

>>
Undoubtedly Mr. Critchlow was an extremely peculiar man. He was a man of
habits. He must always have the same things for his tea. Black-currant
jam, for instance. (He called it "preserve.") The idea of offering
Mr. Critchlow a tea which did not comprise black-currant jam was
inconceivable by the intelligence of St. Luke's Square. Thus for years
past, in the fruit-preserving season, when all the house and all the
shop smelt richly of fruit boiling in sugar, Mrs. Baines had filled an
extra number of jars with black-currant jam, 'because Mr. Critchlow
wouldn't TOUCH any other sort.'
<<

Arnold Bennet, The Old Wives' Tale

> Compote is a word I haven't seen or used for ages. I seem to remember
> it as a compote of fruit in motel menus, in which case I think it was
> just a collection of different fruits (like a fruit salad)

I've got a comedy sketch about two yokels discussing fruit corners as
"containing some sort of fruit-based compote" stuck in my head, but
can't find it on line anywhere.

LFS

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Nov 11, 2012, 8:08:10 AM11/11/12

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On 11/11/2012 08:22, annily wrote:

>
> Compote is a word I haven't seen or used for ages. I seem to remember it
> as a compote of fruit in motel menus, in which case I think it was just
> a collection of different fruits (like a fruit salad)

I think the fruit should be stewed rather than fresh.

My Lithuanian grandma who was famous for her cooking used to make what
she called "apple compote" which was more like apple puree.

She served it with the most delicious pudding I have ever eaten - a
sponge made using the marrow from beef bones. Mum and I tried to
replicate it occasionally but it never worked. Mum said it was useless
asking Grandma for recipes - she never measured anything and worked
incredibly quickly so even watching her wasn't much help.

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Joe Fineman

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Nov 11, 2012, 12:37:19 PM11/11/12

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annily <ann...@annily.invalid> writes:

> Here in Australia, I consider preserves to be pretty much the same
> as jam. There may be a technical difference, but I'm not aware of
> it.

In my book (and I think generally in America) preserves contain whole
fruit or largish pieces. They are lumpy rather than textured.

--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: If we'd known we were going to be born, we'd have been :||
||: afraid of that too, and with better reason. :||

Don Phillipson

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Nov 11, 2012, 9:25:07 AM11/11/12

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"Harrison Hill" <harrison...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a0a426f0-7516-43cf...@s12g2000vbw.googlegroups.com...

> In the UK "jelly" is a wobbly transparent gelitine pudding or dessert,
> served with cream.
>
> "Jam" is a thick fruity substance (Strawberry, Raspberry, Blackcurrant
> etc) associated with "pectin" (in which way I know not) scraped onto

> bread or toast . . .

No longer, alas, not since the British food industry so reorganized
as to approach a monopoly, viz. Premier Foods. All the traditional
English jam brands nowadays sold in Canada seem to come from
the same factory at King's Lynn, all with the same uniform rubbery jelly
texture, totally dissimilar from traditional English jam. Fortunately
several competing Canadian makers produce good jam.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

James Silverton

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Nov 11, 2012, 4:17:41 PM11/11/12

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On 11/11/2012 12:37 PM, Joe Fineman wrote:
> annily <ann...@annily.invalid> writes:
>
>> Here in Australia, I consider preserves to be pretty much the same
>> as jam. There may be a technical difference, but I'm not aware of
>> it.
> In my book (and I think generally in America) preserves contain whole
> fruit or largish pieces. They are lumpy rather than textured.

I think I would agree with you in general but it is possible to make
good jam or jelly without pectin. My mother used to do it every year
with blackberries. Nowadays, practically all commercial preserves
contain pectin in the list of ingredients, even the Swiss Hero company
in the last few years. You can lower the named fruit content if you use
pectin (it comes from apples I believe and the the jam can be claimed to
be completely pure and natural). Pectin aside, Trader Joe's makes quite
good jams.

--
Jim Silverton (Potomac, MD)

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

Nasti J

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Nov 11, 2012, 5:46:13 PM11/11/12

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On Nov 10, 5:13 pm, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:

In the US:
Jelly is made from juice only - it is clear and textureless; pectin is
required for most fruits to jell.
Jam includes mashed-up fruit in a jellied liquid; it may also require
pectin, and the fruit need not be recognizeable (therefore, less-than-
perfect specimens may be used in its manyfacture.).
Preserves require fruit that is whole, or at least cut into
identifiable chunks; pectin yada yada yada.
Marmalade includes the peel of the fruit rather than the innards and
is most often restricted to citrus varieties; pectin would be a
requirement as citrus fruits do not contain any jelling agent.
Compote is fresh fruit sliced or cubed into uniformly sized pieces,
layered with table sugar, sometimes lightly macerated, and left to sit
until time and the drawing action of the sugar pulls the juice out of
the fruit and dissolves the sugar, forming a thick, viscous, syrup and
collapsing the fruit pieces into a sweet sludge that remains somewhat
runny in consistency. There is no jelling involved in compote-making.
Depending on the ambient temperature, in-process compote may be
refrigerated (which will take significantly more time), or may be left
- securely covered - on a counter-top in the kitchen. It must be
carefully watched, as it can attract and grow molds, and can
(especially in a warm atmosphere) ferment, which may or may not be
desired.

Robert Bannister

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Nov 11, 2012, 8:23:44 PM11/11/12

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On 11/11/12 4:22 PM, annily wrote:
> On 11.11.12 10:42, R H Draney wrote:
>> Harrison Hill filted:
>>>
>>> In the UK "jelly" is a wobbly transparent gelitine pudding or dessert,
>>> served with cream.
>>
>> In the US we would recognize it as "jello", the genericized name that
>> includes
>> the actual "Jell-O" brand....
>>
>>> "Jam" is a thick fruity substance (Strawberry, Raspberry, Blackcurrant
>>> etc) associated with "pectin" (in which way I know not) scraped onto
>>> bread or toast at any time of the day - exept morning. In the morning
>>> for breakfast people in England would always have Orange (or
>>> occasionaly Lemon) "marmalade" which is either "fine cut" or "thick
>>> cut" according to the amount of peel left (deliberately) behind in it.
>>
>> And what are "preserves" where you come from?...(if there's time, same
>> question
>> re "compote")....
>>
>
> Here in Australia, I consider preserves to be pretty much the same as
> jam. There may be a technical difference, but I'm not aware of it.

My unsubstantiated feeling is that both here and in England "preserves"
may be applied to both jam and to bottled fruit depending on the
speaker. "Conserve" and "conserves" present different problems.

>
> Compote is a word I haven't seen or used for ages. I seem to remember it
> as a compote of fruit in motel menus, in which case I think it was just
> a collection of different fruits (like a fruit salad)

Not a word I often see in English.

--
Robert Bannister

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Nov 13, 2012, 7:49:04 PM11/13/12

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Yes, that was it. Confusing my beers.

--
Robert Bannister