"He said a funny story to me"
DJ
A learner asked this question(*1):
------
Why are you laughing?
a. He said me a funny story.
b. He told me a funny story.
c. He said a funny story to me.
Answer key: c
------
S/He couldn't understand why b is wrong. My take is the answer should be
b("He told me a funny story"). However, s/he and his/her friend think it
could be that c("He said a funny story to me") is (more) formal.
(S/he said this book is written by a native speaker, so it can't be wrong.)
What do you think?
Thanks
(*1) It's from this book:
Modern English
Sentences & Complex Structures
Exercises for Non-Native Speakers
by Marcella Frank
PEARSON / Longman
--
DJ
DJ
> Hi,
>
> A learner asked this question(*1):
>
> ------
> Why are you laughing?
>
> a. He said me a funny story.
> b. He told me a funny story.
> c. He said a funny story to me.
>
> Answer key: c
> ------
....
>
> (*1) It's from this book:
> Modern English
> Sentences & Complex Structures
> Exercises for Non-Native Speakers
>
> by Marcella Frank
>
> PEARSON / Longman
>
>
I forgot to mention. This book is a Chinese version (or an international
version) of the original. I'm more inclined to think that the person got
the wrong answer, or this specific edition of the book made a
typo/mistake. It happened before that I spotted a "typo" in the
international edition of "Understanding and Using English Grammar" --
"cannot" was misprinted as "can", after I compared it with the version
sold in the U.S.
Nick Spalding
on Fri, 09 Jan 2009 12:23:47 -0500:
> Hi,
>
> A learner asked this question(*1):
>
> ------
> Why are you laughing?
>
> a. He said me a funny story.
> b. He told me a funny story.
> c. He said a funny story to me.
>
> Answer key: c
> ------
>
> S/He couldn't understand why b is wrong. My take is the answer should be
> b("He told me a funny story"). However, s/he and his/her friend think it
> could be that c("He said a funny story to me") is (more) formal.
> (S/he said this book is written by a native speaker, so it can't be wrong.)
>
> What do you think?
c is the wrong answer. b is right.
> Thanks
>
>
> (*1) It's from this book:
> Modern English
> Sentences & Complex Structures
> Exercises for Non-Native Speakers
>
> by Marcella Frank
>
> PEARSON / Longman
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
Marius Hancu
> Why are you laughing?
>
> a. He said me a funny story.
> b. He told me a funny story.
> c. He said a funny story to me.
I could care less where these sentences are coming from, only b seems
fine to me, and the proof is in the pudding of published books:
0 on "said me a funny story"
http://books.google.com/books?q=%22said+me+a+funny+story%22&btnG=Search+Books
605 on "told me a funny story"
http://books.google.com/books?q=%22told+me+a+funny+story%22&btnG=Search+Books
0 on "said a funny story to me"
http://books.google.com/books?q=%22said+a+funny+story+to+me%22&btnG=Search+Books
People usually "tell" stories, they don't "say" them, IMO.
You should try yourself such searches at Google Books.
Marius Hancu
Mike Lyle
It's either a misprint, as you suggest, or a very silly mistake in the
original. (b) is right, of course. We could invent an artificial
conversation in which (c) might be used, with different punctuation, but
that would be absolutely pointless ("He said 'a funny story' to me.")
There's no merit at all in the "more formal" suggestion: we don't "say a
story".
--
Mike.
DJ
...
>
> You should try yourself such searches at Google Books.
>
Mr. Hancu,
I already did, and I consulted corpus databases too, that's why I'm
pretty sure (c) can't be the answer. And I really don't care your
opinion of not caring where it's from. In the past, there were AUEers
asking where the question was from. I provide the information for them,
not for you.
The finding of the said sentence is virtually zero. From my experience,
it's not always safe for a non-native speaker, like you and me, to
assume an expression is wrong or incorrect just because the search
results are very few or zero -- this approach is essentially trying to
prove negative.
That's why I need native speakers to help me.
--
DJ
DJ
...
> It's either a misprint, as you suggest, or a very silly mistake in the
> original. (b) is right, of course. We could invent an artificial
> conversation in which (c) might be used, with different punctuation, but
Thanks. It really helps.
When I first read c("He said a funny story to me"), it strikes me as
odd, because
1. I don't remember ever hearing this kind of expression during my stay
in the U.S. (which is 10+ years).
2. and yet it's eerily familiar because back in schools in Taiwan, I was
taught "tell=say to".
So for a moment I thought c("He said a funny story to me") was also
correct. I first consulted Longman dictionary. The meanings of "tell"
and "say (to)" are very similar in this regard. So I thought maybe the
author of the book had a point.
I then searched Google Web/Google Books/British National Corpus/The
Corpus of Contemporary American English with the pattern "said a funny
story (to)" (and other patterns with "said" and "story") and found the
results are virtually zero.
My own conclusion is that "(to) say" doesn't go well with "a story" (as
in "He said a story to me"). From this, and together with the responses
from other learners who replied to the question (in another forum), I am
pretty sure this usage was never taught in Taiwan.
> that would be absolutely pointless ("He said 'a funny story' to me.")
I actually found one example like this from Google Book("You said a
funny story"). It took me a while to realize the character was simply
quoting verbatim something the other character had said a few moment
ago. Of course, I can't count this as a valid example(I mean it has a
different meaning, and makes sense in the context of that book only).
> There's no merit at all in the "more formal" suggestion: we don't "say a
> story".
Thank you. This is what I really need -- a confirmation from a native
speaker.
(It won't matter if it's said by me. And it won't matter how many Google
search results I provide. They won't believe me anyway.)
--
DJ
Not a native speaker of English
tony cooper
>Hi,
>
>A learner asked this question(*1):
>
>------
> Why are you laughing?
>
> a. He said me a funny story.
> b. He told me a funny story.
> c. He said a funny story to me.
>
> Answer key: c
>------
>
>S/He couldn't understand why b is wrong. My take is the answer should be
>b("He told me a funny story"). However, s/he and his/her friend think it
>could be that c("He said a funny story to me") is (more) formal.
>(S/he said this book is written by a native speaker, so it can't be wrong.)
>
>What do you think?
"b" is the only correct answer.
>
>(*1) It's from this book:
>Modern English
>Sentences & Complex Structures
>Exercises for Non-Native Speakers
>
>by Marcella Frank
>
>PEARSON / Longman
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Marius Hancu
> The finding of the said sentence is virtually zero. From my experience,
> it's not always safe for a non-native speaker, like you and me, to
> assume an expression is wrong or incorrect just because the search
> results are very few or zero -- this approach is essentially trying to
> prove negative.
>
> That's why I need native speakers to help me.
Oh, no, ask away, that's what I'm doing a lot myself. But I'd say to
come with the results of your searches, or just conclusions.
I just suggested you to use the better search at Google Books than the
one at plain Google. GB is quite right in many instances. Google Books
is published books (most of them copy proofed), not just ordinary
posts over the net.
Marius Hancu
Marius Hancu
(as the newspaper is renowned for his editorial quality). You can do
that by doing this parameterized search at the plain Google site:
site:nytimes.com "to tell a story"
The results are:
5,930 from nytimes.com for "to tell a story"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Anytimes.com+%22to+tell+a+story%22&btnG=Search
5 from nytimes.com for "to say a story"
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site%3Anytimes.com+%22to+say+a+story%22&btnG=Search
pretty damning agaist "to say a story"
and from those 5, the only one looking good is
------
"I want to say a story about myself, my dreams, strange things, lies,
the combination of sincerity and fantasy, autobiography and complete
invention, ...
------
so I went in to see who was the person, and it's Fellini, the Italian
director:-) So, not a native.
Marius Hancu
R H Draney
>
>------
> Why are you laughing?
>
> a. He said me a funny story.
> b. He told me a funny story.
> c. He said a funny story to me.
>
> Answer key: c
>------
>
>S/He couldn't understand why b is wrong. My take is the answer should be
>b("He told me a funny story"). However, s/he and his/her friend think it
>could be that c("He said a funny story to me") is (more) formal.
>(S/he said this book is written by a native speaker, so it can't be wrong.)
>
>What do you think?
b is both grammatical and idiomatic...c is grammatical but not idiomatic...a is
neither....
Conclusion: the answer key is wrong....r
--
"You got Schadenfreude on my Weltanschauung!"
"You got Weltanschauung in my Schadenfreude!"
HVS
> Marius Hancu wrote:
> ...
>>
>> You should try yourself such searches at Google Books.
>>
>
> Mr. Hancu,
>
> I already did, and I consulted corpus databases too, that's why
> I'm pretty sure (c) can't be the answer. And I really don't care
> your opinion of not caring where it's from. In the past, there
> were AUEers asking where the question was from. I provide the
> information for them, not for you.
You're right, DJ -- it helps a lot to know the source, as it allows
native speakers to place it in context.
As for the question (and as everyone else has confirmed), "b" is the
only possible answer. Stories are "told" (or even "related", or
"narrated"); stories are never "said".
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
Marius Hancu
> b is both grammatical and idiomatic...c is grammatical but not idiomatic...a is
> neither....
I guess a is this way because of "said me a"
that shows up only in such non-standard talk:
----------
Polack said: "You said me a mouthful, Chuck. We surer'n hell ought to.
A Bell for Adano - Page 124
by John Hersey - Fiction - 1988
---------
Marius Hancu
DJ
...
tony cooper wrote:
...
Thanks.
-----------
R H Draney wrote:
> b is both grammatical and idiomatic...
Thank you for pointing out the "idiomatic" part. One learner claimed all
three are terrible, and b is just a bit better.
I have no idea what sources he based his claim on.
>c is grammatical but not idiomatic...a is
> neither....
--
DJ
DJ
...
>
> You're right, DJ -- it helps a lot to know the source, as it allows
> native speakers to place it in context.
Thanks for you support. The original question the poster asked was
actually just one sentence: "He told me a funny story". It was after I
asked him/her to provide an image of the page and then I knew the whole
story.
(A lot of folks there simply don't have the habit of proving a context.)
> As for the question (and as everyone else has confirmed), "b" is the
> only possible answer. Stories are "told" (or even "related", or
> "narrated"); stories are never "said".
>
>
One more confirmation. Thanks!
--
DJ
DJ
> HVS wrote:
> ...
>>
>> You're right, DJ -- it helps a lot to know the source, as it allows
>> native speakers to place it in context.
>
> Thanks for you support. The original question the poster asked was
Whhhooppps, "Thank you for your support."
DJ
> (A lot of folks there simply don't have the habit of proving a context.)
.... of providing ....
-- DJ
I better stop replying now. Thanks to all future respondents!
R H Draney
>..a is
>> neither....
>
>I guess a is this way because of "said me a"
>that shows up only in such non-standard talk:
>
>----------
>Polack said: "You said me a mouthful, Chuck. We surer'n hell ought to.
>
>by John Hersey - Fiction - 1988
>---------
Yes, "non-standard"..."ungrammatical" doesn't live in the world of descriptive
grammar....
It's a problem with dative case, which I'm told English doesn't actually
have....r
Ian Jackson
<use...@REMOVETHISwhhvs.co.uk> writes
being read).
But what about poems? Poems are not "told". They can be "recited" (or
"read", of course). However, the great American poet, Robert Frost,
always insisted that he "said" his poems, which is not the word we
normally use.
--
Ian
CDB
> On Jan 9, 4:49 pm, R H Draney <dadoc...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> b is both grammatical and idiomatic...c is grammatical but not
>> idiomatic...a is neither....
> I guess a is this way because of "said me a"
> that shows up only in such non-standard talk:
> Polack said: "You said me a mouthful, Chuck. We surer'n hell ought
> to.
> A Bell for Adanoı - Page 124
> by John Hersey - Fiction - 1988
The quotation is unusual, but I wouldn't call it non-standard. I see
it as the familiar expression "You said a mouthful" with a dative
("You said a mouthful to me") or an ethical dative ("Flog me this
peasant") thrown in. A little incongruous, when followed by "surer'n
hell", sure, but that would've been what Hersey wanted.