Play "the" violin or pay violin?
DJ Kim
must precede an instrument but must not a sport when combined with the
verb "play"; thus, play the violin and play soccer.
Now, I don't know if the grammar rules have changed since then, but I
definitely heard Ross (of the sitcom, Friends) say "Mike played piano.
I used to play keyboards in college."
Is this evolution of the language or the gramatical rule I was taught
in High school wrong?
Alan Jones
"DJ Kim" <dj_g...@daum.net> wrote in message
news:2daf7872.03100...@posting.google.com...
In BrE, "play the piano" is usual if one is describing a skill, job or
pastime. "Play piano" is less common, and is not often heard in that sense;
but it can be used to describe which instrument X played with a particular
band.
"I learned to play the piano in my teens"/"Can you help? We need someone to
play the organ for a wedding tomorrow"/"John usually plays the violin, but
he played viola in our college string quartet".
My impression is that "play piano" is more widely used in AmE, and is
available - ?customary - for the "skill" sense.
Alan Jones
Stewart Gordon
black dots on a white screen, and they fell thus:
> When I was in high school, my English teacher emphasized that "the"
> must precede an instrument but must not a sport when combined with the
> verb "play"; thus, play the violin and play soccer.
Correct. "Violin" is a singular countable noun. "Soccer" is uncountable.
> Now, I don't know if the grammar rules have changed since then, but I
> definitely heard Ross (of the sitcom, Friends) say "Mike played piano.
> I used to play keyboards in college."
>
> Is this evolution of the language or the gramatical rule I was taught
> in High school wrong?
The first of those sample sentences is ungrammatical AIUI. The second
is OK, as "keyboards" are plural.
Of course, that would imply that the keyboards are indefinite, but
that's another matter....
Stewart.
--
My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on
on the 'group where everyone may benefit.
rzed
I hear them as slightly different usages (at least in AmE).
If I talk about playing the piano, I am most likely referring to at
that moment performing on a single instrument. If I say I play piano,
I mean I am capable of playing instruments of the piano class.
I could say, in other words, that I play piano, guitar and sackbut,
meaning that I could perform on an instrument of any of those types.
That usage is similar to the one in "Friends." But when I am actually
engaged in playing an instrument, it could be a/the piano or a/the
guitar. If I tried to tell someone I played a piano, a guitar and a
sackbut, they might wonder how I played them all at the same time.
--
rzed
Ross Howard
wrought:
>DJ Kim wrote:
>> When I was in high school, my English teacher emphasized that "the"
>> must precede an instrument but must not a sport when combined with
>> the verb "play"; thus, play the violin and play soccer.
>>
>> Now, I don't know if the grammar rules have changed since then, but
>> I definitely heard Ross (of the sitcom, Friends) say "Mike played
>> piano. I used to play keyboards in college."
There's a much more famous reference for it 30 years ago, as sung by a
lad from Bromley with funny-coloured eyes, orange hair and a penchant
for wearing stripy tights: "Ziggy played guitar . . . ".
However, the musospeak I've always heard makes a clear distinction
between the articled-up and article-free versions -- with the former
being used for "know how to play in general" and the latter for
"perform on a specific occasion":
Brian May plays the guitar using an old sixpence as a
plectrum.
Rory Gallagher played guitar on Jerry Lee Lewis's cover of
"Johnny B. Goode", recorded in London in 1973.
But it gets more complicated. I think the only applies to the main
jazz/rock instruments: guitar, bass and the piano. The following
sounds a bit odd to my ears
?He teaches privately and plays French horn with the city's
symphony orchestra.
?Steve Douglas played sax on Dylan's 1978 tour.
?Steve Keltner was played drums when I saw Ry Cooder.
?When performing live, he sometimes played
harmonica where the piano break is on the album version.
***********
Ross Howard
Ross Howard
<smjg...@yahoo.com> wrought:
>While it was 1/10/03 12:02 pm throughout the UK, DJ Kim sprinkled little
>black dots on a white screen, and they fell thus:
>
>> When I was in high school, my English teacher emphasized that "the"
>> must precede an instrument but must not a sport when combined with the
>> verb "play"; thus, play the violin and play soccer.
>
>Correct. "Violin" is a singular countable noun. "Soccer" is uncountable.
>
>> Now, I don't know if the grammar rules have changed since then, but I
>> definitely heard Ross (of the sitcom, Friends) say "Mike played piano.
>> I used to play keyboards in college."
>>
>> Is this evolution of the language or the gramatical rule I was taught
>> in High school wrong?
>
>The first of those sample sentences is ungrammatical AIUI. The second
>is OK, as "keyboards" are plural.
The blues ain't got no grammuh
And jazz it don't follow no rules.
I said the blues ain't got no grammuh, babeh,
And jazz, well it follow none o' them rules.
Down home in Alabama
Prescriptivism it's fo' fools.
***********
Ross Howard
Fabian
When talking about a general ability with an instrument, use the. When
talking about a particular role in a group, such as i a band, don't.
--
--
Fabian
Visit my website often and for long periods!
http://www.lajzar.co.uk
mb
> When I was in high school, my English teacher emphasized that "the"
> must precede an instrument but must not a sport when combined with the
> verb "play"; thus, play the violin and play soccer.
>
> Now, I don't know if the grammar rules have changed since then
The other posters made it clear that both usages are now accepted
outside the formal register. But that's not the question your thread
title advertised. You pay the fiddler.
Richard Maurer
But it gets more complicated. I think the only applies to the main
jazz/rock instruments: guitar, bass and the piano. The following
sounds a bit odd to my ears
?He teaches privately and plays French horn with the city's
symphony orchestra.
?Steve Douglas played sax on Dylan's 1978 tour.
?Steve Keltner was played drums when I saw Ry Cooder.
?When performing live, he sometimes played
harmonica where the piano break is on the album version.
[end quote] >>
Whereas these all sound fine to my ear.
Adding a "the" would be acceptable but less common.
-- ---------------------------------------------
Richard Maurer To reply, remove half
Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Schultz
> <...> "Violin" is a singular countable noun. <...>
Like most English nouns, that depends on the context. My son studied
violin. He didn't study one violin, or two violins.
Unless you think that "mathematics" and "psychology" are countable nouns
too.
\\P. Schultz
Stewart Gordon
black dots on a white screen, and they fell thus:
>
>><...> "Violin" is a singular countable noun. <...>
>
>
> Like most English nouns, that depends on the context. My son studied
> violin. He didn't study one violin, or two violins.
Oh, so "violin" is now an uncountable noun meaning "the art/skill of
playing the violin"? Not "violinism"?