>> No real idea.  I'd guess from "jakes", which is centuries older (the
>> OED cites it to the 1530s), but it's unclear where that came from.  A
>> sixteenth-century citation for "jakes" is from an English-Latin
>> dictionary which translates "latrina" as

>> Siege, iacques, bogard, or draught

>> "Siege" in this sense, is cited from ca. 1400 to 1555.  The original
>> sense, from the early thirteenth century was "a seat, esp. one used by
>> a person of rank or distinction".  So a sarcastic euphemism from way
>> back.  "Draught" in this sense is cited in the sixteenth and
>> seventeenth centuries (including in _Timon of Athens_) and appears to
>> have come from a sense of "cesspool, sink, or sewer".  "Boggard" has
>> about the same temporal range and comes from the verb "bog", meaning
>> "to exonerate the bowels, to defile with excrement".  The entry for
>> "bog" is interesting, as it has no citations whatsoever and it's
>> etymology is

>>     A low word, scarcely found in literature, however common in coarse
>>     colloquial language

>> A lot of help there.

> In AusE "the bog" is clearly understood to be the room that contains the
> crapper, but in a sentence like "I'm going for a bog" it refers to
> defecation. It is, I suppose, a "low word", and not common in polite
> use, but it's well understood.

>> Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>>> Peter Moylan wrote:

>>> [bog]

>>>> Apart from that, the only non-euphemistic word we have for
>>>> the facilities is "dunny". Toilet, WC, lavatory and so on
>>>> are all euphemisms.

>>> Including "00" (= zero zero).

>> Do people ever say that?

> I don't know whether Germans, Austrians, and Swiss-Germans ask for the
> "Null-Null"; I never have. They just look for that door marked "00".

>> It seems feasible, but I've never heard in English,
>> French or German, despite the alleged "l'00" derivation.

> Derivation unknown; "l'00" is definitely wrong. It could be from room
> number 00 in hotels, etc.

>>>>> On 19/09/12 3:22 AM, tony cooper wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Sep 2012 19:29:16 +0100, "Guy Barry"
>>>>>> <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>>>>>>> "tony cooper"  wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:mpvg58dmfn2oienpiump3io6mgu4rh13kt@4ax.com...

>>>>>>>> Do you have any trouble explaining to guests that your WC is not a
>>>>>>>> place in which you store water?

>>>>>>> No, but then I don't use the term "WC".  It's either "toilet" or
>>>>>>> "loo",
>>>>>>> neither of which is ambiguous.

>>>>>> To you.  "Loo" might be recognizable to some Americans, but seem to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> as odd a term to them as "bathroom" is to you.

>>>>> Odd perhaps, but at least not ambiguous. My bathroom does not contain
>>>>> a
>>>>> toilet; there is a bath(tub), handbasin and shower cubicle and
>>>>> that's it.

>>>> You must have very accommodating neighbors.

>>> I do also have a toilet in its own, separate room.

>> Presumably with a handbasin as well?

> Unfortunately not. The room is too small. You have to wash your hands in
> the kitchen, but it is handy when someone is using the shower and you
> really have to.

>>> The theory I heard was that it was an abbreviation of "gardy-loo", an
>>> obsolete term used when people threw slops from the windows into the
>>> streets (from French "garde à l'eau"), but that may be a piece of
>>> folk-etymology.

>> Unless they did that a lot in the 1930s, probably.

> What I read was that they did that up to probably a later date in the high
> tenements in the Edinburgh slums. I could not attest to the truth of the
> matter.

>> In article <umtm585hcamsfhns9t77fvdvmvgr052...@4ax.com>, tony cooper
>> <tony.cooper...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> [snip], drifting a bit

>> >There are those of us, Americans, who do have both a laundry hamper
>> >and a picnic hamper.  Our picnic hamper is a wicker rectangle that
>> >came with a fitted set of plates and eating utensils.  Most of which
>> >have become lost.  The laundry hamper is in charge of losing socks and
>> >is very competitive with the dryer in this.

>> Width and length, but no depth? Obviously a klein rectangle

>> I understand "rectangle" to mean a 3-D object, but it sows seeds of
>> confusion in my head for a while. Is there a common work to refer to a
>> rectangular solid shaped object? "Cube" works for a limited example of a
>> rectangular solid.

> I would say "cuboid".

>>> Reinhold {Rey} Aman wrote:
>>>> Peter Moylan wrote:

>>>> [bog]

>>>>> Apart from that, the only non-euphemistic word we have for
>>>>> the facilities is "dunny". Toilet, WC, lavatory and so on
>>>>> are all euphemisms.

>>>> Including "00" (= zero zero).

>>> Do people ever say that?

>> I don't know whether Germans, Austrians, and Swiss-Germans ask for the
>> "Null-Null"; I never have. They just look for that door marked "00".

>>> It seems feasible, but I've never heard in English,
>>> French or German, despite the alleged "l'00" derivation.

>> Derivation unknown; "l'00" is definitely wrong. It could be from room
>> number 00 in hotels, etc.

>I always assumed 'loo' came from 'lavatory' (much as 'pee' is a
>bowdlerisation of 'piss').

>"Sn!pe" <sn...@spambin.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:1kqrfe9.1vwqceu11vpksgN%snipe@spambin.fsnet.co.uk...
>> Charles Bishop <ctbis...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>>> I understand "rectangle" to mean a 3-D object, but it sows seeds of
>>> confusion in my head for a while. Is there a common work to refer to a
>>> rectangular solid shaped object? "Cube" works for a limited example of a
>>> rectangular solid.

>> I would say "cuboid".

>As would I, though 'parallelopiped' is technically correct. However that
>covers solids whose faces are parallelograms but not necessarily
>rectangular.

>(My spellchecker wants to change that to 'parallelEpiped' but my dictionary
>says either is acceptable and I prefer the continuity with 'parallelOgram'.)

>Laundry baskets are designed to have a height that
>is slightly shorter than the distance from the bottom
>edge of the door of a clothes dryer to the floor.

> >Laundry baskets are designed to have a height that
> >is slightly shorter than the distance from the bottom
> >edge of the door of a clothes dryer to the floor.

> Not in any laundromat I've visited...they're always just high enough that you
> can't roll them right up to the machine and still open the door....r

>>> Does a.e.u exist at all?

>> Sn!pe seems to be from there.

> Indeed I am, newly arrived. Since seeing how the land lies I'm now also
> subscribed to alt.usage.english and sci.lang, but I don't expect to be in
> sci.lang for very long. I would prefer that the reason for that is not
> speculated upon in this crossposted thread.

>>> In article <umtm585hcamsfhns9t77fvdvmvgr052...@4ax.com>, tony cooper
>>> <tony.cooper...@gmail.com> wrote:

>>> [snip], drifting a bit

>>> >There are those of us, Americans, who do have both a laundry hamper
>>> >and a picnic hamper.  Our picnic hamper is a wicker rectangle that
>>> >came with a fitted set of plates and eating utensils.  Most of which
>>> >have become lost.  The laundry hamper is in charge of losing socks and
>>> >is very competitive with the dryer in this.

>>> Width and length, but no depth? Obviously a klein rectangle

>>> I understand "rectangle" to mean a 3-D object, but it sows seeds of
>>> confusion in my head for a while. Is there a common work to refer to a
>>> rectangular solid shaped object? "Cube" works for a limited example of a
>>> rectangular solid.

>> I would say "cuboid".

> As would I, though 'parallelopiped' is technically correct. However that
> covers solids whose faces are parallelograms but not necessarily rectangular.

> (My spellchecker wants to change that to 'parallelEpiped' but my dictionary
> says either is acceptable and I prefer the continuity with 'parallelOgram'.)

>> And people still say 'hamper', although I'm sure they deliver in
>> cardboard boxes and grocery store bags. 'Hamper', to me, implies some
>> kind of wicker basket.

> All "hampers" I have seen - and I have been the lucky recipient of a few
> - have been in wicker baskets, but not in proper hampers. In my mind, a
> hamper is made of basketwork, but is a rectangular box with and
> open-able lid, designed for expensive picnics. Store hampers are more or
> less like shallow shopping baskets, and the contents are held in place
> by masses of coloured transparent plastic wrapping.

>>> And "slit trench".  I was once, when in the Army, instructed to dig a
>>> slit trench when on bivouac.  After much digging, the mess sargent
>>> came over said it was too close to the mess tent and that I should
>>> move it.

>>> I was unable to persuade him that hole cannot be moved.

>> One afternoon, in Crowthorne, I passed a man who was gazing into a
>> large hole in the road, holding a clipboard, and I heard him say to
>> his companion; 'This hole has got to be moved'.,

> Years ago I lived in a place where the streets were poorly lit. The only
> way at night to find the street I had to turn into was to wait until my
> wheels hit a pothole, count to three, and swing the steering wheel left.

> One day the local council moved the pothole, and I drove into the gutter.

>> Charles Bishop wrote (19-09-2012 17:12):
>>> In article <IeydnWby6-CVT8XNnZ2dnUVZ_uqdn...@bestweb.net>, Glenn
>>> Knickerbocker <N...@bestweb.net> wrote:

>>>> On 9/18/2012 3:12 PM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
>>>>> Yes, because "not worth the X it's made of" is a standard cliche'.

>>>> Really?  Google claims to find "not worth the * it's written on" or "not
>>>> worth the * it's printed on" about 20 times more frequently.

>>> While I can't think of an example of PTD's form, the fact that there is
>>> another that is used 20 times more frequently doesn't necessarily mean his
>>> isn't standard, does it?

>>> "Not worth the powder needed to blow it to hell" also

>> My original 'not worth the copper they were minted [from (kindly provided by
>> Mr Knickerbocker)]', however, did not intend to entail a moral judgement, as
>> all the cliches seem to.

>> Does a.e.u exist at all?

> Sn!pe seems to be from there.

> I missed the original "copper" phrase. What was the complete phrase?

>> On 20/09/12 3:17 PM, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
>>> "Guy Barry" <guy.ba...@blueyonder.co.uk> writes:

>>>> The theory I heard was that it was an abbreviation of "gardy-loo", an
>>>> obsolete term used when people threw slops from the windows into the
>>>> streets (from French "garde à l'eau"), but that may be a piece of
>>>> folk-etymology.

>>> Unless they did that a lot in the 1930s, probably.

>> What I read was that they did that up to probably a later date in the
>> high tenements in the Edinburgh slums. I could not attest to the truth
>> of the matter.

>Why would people in Edinburgh slums have shouted out a warning in
>French?

>> >>On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 20:37:07 +0100, Robin Bignall
>> >><docro...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>> >>>On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 16:37:30 +0100, the Omrud <usenet.om...@gmail.com>
>> >>>wrote:

>> >>>>On 20/09/2012 15:46, tony cooper wrote:

>> >>>>> Our house is not so large that the overnight visitor wouldn't notice
>> >>>>> the bathroom within a few feet of the bedroom contains a tub and
>> >>>>> shower. Finding the room with bathtub may be a problem in a stately
>> >>>>> old home, but not in this one.

>> >>>>You remind me, it's time to close down the South Wing before we put the
>> >>>>heating on.

>> >>>They started building our orangery today. I'll collect photos and post
>> >>>them on my site when it's done.

>> >>Will it be in the maze?

>Come on, they don't grow corn in England.

>> >Even if not, it'll still be this side of the ha-ha.

>> I've always want a folly in my backyard, but then I'd have to call my
>> backyard "the grounds".

>I have enough follies in my house, at work, etc.

>(The "corn" comment was supposed to be a joke, but if people want to
>have a meaning-of-corn-and-words-for-Zea-mays thread, that's fine with
>me.)

>> And if they build too many houses, they'll all be left empty when the
>> bust part of the cycle hits. In the old days, they'd build bunkhouses or
>> company towns, but people like having their families nearby and company
>> towns are expensive and not a popular option these days with just about
>> anyone.

> That is the problem. FIFO (fly-in, fly-out) has now become part of
> our everyday vocabulary,

> Considering the high wages the mining companies are paying and that to
> rent a nasty house near the mine site can cost up to $2000 a week, I
> still think company towns would have been the better
> option. Psychologists are now discovering all sorts of mental problems
> among FIFO workers and their families too.

> > >Laundry baskets are designed to have a height that
> > >is slightly shorter than the distance from the bottom
> > >edge of the door of a clothes dryer to the floor.

> > Not in any laundromat I've visited...they're always just high enough that you
> > can't roll them right up to the machine and still open the door....r

> Those are carts, not baskets. (The carts are baskets with legs and
> wheels.)

>>Thanks. A solution would be to slab a coin, register it, then make a fake
>>slabbed coin with the same serial number. Or several. They could be sold
>>as the original. The scandal wouldn't be with the certification company
>>but somebody who sells to individuals.

> Before you start this business, I suggest you look into the costs of
> making "slabs".  A photograph doesn't really show what they look like.
> It's the slab, not the coin, that bears the serial number.  The coin
> is registered when you send it in for slabbing.  

> "Slab" is just the common nickname for the container in which the coin
> is sealed.  The coin is not embedded in plastic.  The slab can be
> cracked open and the coin removed.  You can't put the slab back
> together again, though.

>> >Thanks for the tip, Guy. I'll persevere with lurking in aeu then.
>> >Newly arrived, I was already considering whether to give up on it.

>> Sn!pe, I've seen your moniker elsegroup, but don't remember where.
>> Pratchett? Wodehouse? afu? Any of these?

> None of the above I'm afraid, Charles. I post mostly in the uk.*
> hierarchy, also Mac related groups and Usenet related groups.
> Apart from that I'm in a few low volume backwaters.

> I'm pretty sure that I've seen you around too, but I can't think where
> either. In ~18 years on Usenet

>> Laundry baskets are designed to have a height that
>> is slightly shorter than the distance from the bottom
>> edge of the door of a clothes dryer to the floor.

> Not in any laundromat I've visited...they're always just high enough that you
> can't roll them right up to the machine and still open the door....r

>> On Thu, 20 Sep 2012 21:15:32 -0800, ctbis...@earthlink.net (Charles
>> Bishop) wrote:

>>>Thanks. A solution would be to slab a coin, register it, then make a fake
>>>slabbed coin with the same serial number. Or several. They could be sold
>>>as the original. The scandal wouldn't be with the certification company
>>>but somebody who sells to individuals.

>> Before you start this business, I suggest you look into the costs of
>> making "slabs".  A photograph doesn't really show what they look like.
>> It's the slab, not the coin, that bears the serial number.  The coin
>> is registered when you send it in for slabbing.  

>> "Slab" is just the common nickname for the container in which the coin
>> is sealed.  The coin is not embedded in plastic.  The slab can be
>> cracked open and the coin removed.  You can't put the slab back
>> together again, though.

>Apparently there are, in fact, people runnnig this scam:

>   http://coins.about.com/b/2008/01/10/beware-of-counterfeit-ngc-slabs.htm
>   http://www.ngccoin.com/news/viewarticle.aspx?IDArticle=954

>I love the fact that the hologram on the counterfite attests to its
>guild's "RNOWLEDGE" and "INTEGRIGY" as "NUNISMATISTS".  Subtle clues.