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crisp and crispy

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Tomy

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Feb 9, 2006, 10:40:45 AM2/9/06
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Are they the same?

crisp, crisper, crispest?
crispy, crispier, crispest?

John has a crisper/crispier slice of bread than Tom has, but John has
the crispest one among them all.

Don Phillipson

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Feb 9, 2006, 11:47:34 AM2/9/06
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"Tomy" <To...@city.com> wrote in message
news:vcomu15gqu5067cin...@4ax.com...

> Are they the same?
>
> crisp, crisper, crispest?
> crispy, crispier, crispest?

No. The original words were crisp, crisper, crispest.
The US advertising industry coined the variant crispy
(I do not know when -- 1965?), and after it entered the
language the other forms followed: crispy, crispier, crispiest.
But all remain redundant and many people avoid them
(as baby-talk.)

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)


Donna Richoux

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Feb 9, 2006, 1:55:07 PM2/9/06
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Don Phillipson <d.phil...@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:

> No. The original words were crisp, crisper, crispest.
> The US advertising industry coined the variant crispy
> (I do not know when -- 1965?),

1611 at least, says the OED, which is open for *some* letters.

1611 COTGR., Bressaudes, the crispie mammocks that
remaine of tried hogs grese. c1720 W. GIBSON
Farriers Dispens. xv. (1734) 280 Boil..till..the
Worms are grown crispy. 1871 NICHOLS Fireside
Science 92 A black, crispy mass of charcoal.

--
Donna Richoux

Martin Ambuhl

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Feb 9, 2006, 2:45:52 PM2/9/06
to
Don Phillipson wrote:

> No. The original words were crisp, crisper, crispest.
> The US advertising industry coined the variant crispy
> (I do not know when -- 1965?), and after it entered the
> language the other forms followed: crispy, crispier, crispiest.

I have heard many revisionist ideas in my day, but this takes the cake.
Below is the OED entry. Note the US advertising industry's coining of
sense 1 by 1398, of sense 2 by 1611, and of sense 3 by 1841. What is
your source for your curious claim?

crispy, a. ("krIspI) [f. crisp a. + -y.]
1. Curly, wavy; undulated; = crisp a. 1 and 2.
1398 Trevisa Barth. de P.R. v. xv. (1495) 121
By grete heete the heer of the berd and of the heed ben cryspy and
curlyd.
1594 Kyd Cornelio iv. in Hazl. Dodsley V. 229
Turn not thy crispy tides like silver curl, Back to thy
grass-green banks to welcome us.
1678 Jordan Triumphs Lond.,
A fair bright crispy curl'd flaxen hair.
1819 H. Busk Banquet iii. 502
The Arctic frost That chains the crispy wave on Zemla's coast.
1870 Morris Earthly Par. I. i. 381
Ye shall behold I doubt not soon, his crispy hair of gold.

2. a. Brittle or ‘short’; = crisp a. 5.
1611 Cotgr.,


Bressaudes, the crispie mammocks that remaine of tried hogs grese.

c1720 W. Gibson Farriers Dispens. xv. (1734) 280
Boil .. till .. the Worms are grown crispy.
1871 Nichols Fireside Science 92


A black, crispy mass of charcoal.

b. crispy noodles, crisp fried noodles served with Chinese food.
1940 A. L. Simon Concise Encycl. Gastronomy ii. 55/2
‘Crispy Noodles’. .. Roll this dough out very thinly and cut into
strips as thin as spaghetti. .. Throw into boiling oil or frying
fat, frying a delicate brown.
1961 B. W. Aldiss Primal Urge ii. 41
They ate their chow mein, sweet and sour pork and crispy noodles.
1969 Guardian 27 Dec. 13/3 He took .. [a] job .. as a waiter in a
Chinese restaurant .. fetching and carrying No. 31 with crispy
noodles and No. 13 with soft.

3. Pleasantly sharp, brisk; = crisp a. 5b.
1841 Fraser's Mag. XXIII. 314 The crispy coolness of fair Eve.

> But all remain redundant and many people avoid them
> (as baby-talk.)

Do you believe the writers cited by the OED were using 'baby-talk'?

Jeffrey Turner

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Feb 9, 2006, 3:09:14 PM2/9/06
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Donna Richoux wrote:
> Don Phillipson <d.phil...@ttrryytteell.com> wrote:
>
>
>>No. The original words were crisp, crisper, crispest.
>>The US advertising industry coined the variant crispy
>>(I do not know when -- 1965?),
>
>
> 1611 at least, says the OED, which is open for *some* letters.

What did the Manhattans call the area around Madison Avenue?

--Jeff

--
"A nation that continues year after year to
spend more money on military defense than on
programs of social uplift is approaching
spiritual death." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

Mike Lyle

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Feb 9, 2006, 6:56:51 PM2/9/06
to

We've been here before. All I can say is that "crispy" for "crisp" had
become rare, or apparently obsolete, in ordinary language by my
childhood, so that when it reappeared in ad-man bullshit it seemed to be
unidiomatic. I bet those ad-men didn't know they weren't inventing
something new and, to their perverted way of thinking, attractive. (I'd
argue similarly, though in this case without disapproval, in the case of
"flammable": that word already existed, in dictionary terms, though in
fact it didn't quite mean the same as "inflammable". We've been there
before, too.)

We do not need "crispy".

--
Mike.


Joe Fineman

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Feb 9, 2006, 9:10:09 PM2/9/06
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"Mike Lyle" <mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> writes:

> We've been here before. All I can say is that "crispy" for "crisp"
> had become rare, or apparently obsolete, in ordinary language by my
> childhood, so that when it reappeared in ad-man bullshit it seemed
> to be unidiomatic.

I, too, was unaware of the antiquity of "crispy", but my experience of
it is very different from yours. I seem to have escaped its use in
advertising (except in the trade name Krispy Kreme); I associate it
entirely with the menus of Chinese restaurants.
--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: Saw a crawdad big as a whale: :||
||: Jesus bugs fucking -- I was on their scale. :||

Tony Cooper

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Feb 9, 2006, 9:56:44 PM2/9/06
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On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 02:10:09 GMT, Joe Fineman <jo...@verizon.net>
wrote:

>"Mike Lyle" <mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> writes:
>
>> We've been here before. All I can say is that "crispy" for "crisp"
>> had become rare, or apparently obsolete, in ordinary language by my
>> childhood, so that when it reappeared in ad-man bullshit it seemed
>> to be unidiomatic.
>
>I, too, was unaware of the antiquity of "crispy", but my experience of
>it is very different from yours. I seem to have escaped its use in
>advertising (except in the trade name Krispy Kreme); I associate it
>entirely with the menus of Chinese restaurants.

Not with KFC (aka Kentucky Fried Chicken)?


--


Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Mike Lyle

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Feb 10, 2006, 5:01:53 PM2/10/06
to
Joe Fineman wrote:
> "Mike Lyle" <mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> writes:
>
>> We've been here before. All I can say is that "crispy" for "crisp"
>> had become rare, or apparently obsolete, in ordinary language by my
>> childhood, so that when it reappeared in ad-man bullshit it seemed
>> to be unidiomatic.
>
> I, too, was unaware of the antiquity of "crispy", but my experience of
> it is very different from yours. I seem to have escaped its use in
> advertising (except in the trade name Krispy Kreme); I associate it
> entirely with the menus of Chinese restaurants.

Yes, come to think of it, so do I -- "crispy noodle". But it does occur
in other commercial English.

--
Mike.


Robert Bannister

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Feb 10, 2006, 8:16:04 PM2/10/06
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Tony Cooper wrote:


> Not with KFC (aka Kentucky Fried Chicken)?

Is there a connection, other than commercial? I remember, long ago, I
used to like Kentucky Fried, but KFC is another fish entirely.

--
Rob Bannister

Joe Fineman

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Feb 10, 2006, 10:40:26 PM2/10/06
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Tony Cooper <tony_co...@earthlink.net> writes:

> Not with KFC (aka Kentucky Fried Chicken)?

Being culturally deprived, I have never seen the inside of a KFC.

I was delighted, on a visit to Quebec city, to see that it had been
translated to PFK. After that, I was hoping for a Roi-Bourgeois, but
alas! that had been allowed to remain in English.


--
--- Joe Fineman jo...@verizon.net

||: There's nothing between the North Pole and Texas but a :||
||: barbed-wire fence. :||

Ross Howard

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Feb 11, 2006, 4:41:27 AM2/11/06
to
On Fri, 10 Feb 2006 22:01:53 -0000, "Mike Lyle"
<mike_l...@REMOVETHISyahoo.co.uk> wrought:

For me it's "crispy bacon"-flavoured crisps (AmE: "freedom nachos") --
the third flavour to come to the rescue and make the British staple
diet the wonderfully healthy, varied thing it is today (after cheese
and onion, and salt and vinegar).* I assume that they're "crispy"
rather than just "crisp" because "crisp-bacon crisps" sounds crap.

[*These are the only kinds of circumstances in which you'll catch me
using a Harvard/Oxford comma.]

--
Ross Howard

Salvatore Volatile

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Feb 11, 2006, 9:34:32 AM2/11/06
to
Ross Howard wrote:
> For me it's "crispy bacon"-flavoured crisps (AmE: "freedom nachos") --
> the third flavour to come to the rescue and make the British staple
> diet the wonderfully healthy, varied thing it is today (after cheese
> and onion, and salt and vinegar).*

Aren't you forgetting about hedgehog-flavoured crisps?


--
Salvatore Volatile
ref at freeshell dot org


Ross Howard

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Feb 14, 2006, 5:14:22 AM2/14/06
to
On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 14:34:32 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
<m...@privacy.net> wrought:

>Ross Howard wrote:
>> For me it's "crispy bacon"-flavoured crisps (AmE: "freedom nachos") --
>> the third flavour to come to the rescue and make the British staple
>> diet the wonderfully healthy, varied thing it is today (after cheese
>> and onion, and salt and vinegar).*
>
>Aren't you forgetting about hedgehog-flavoured crisps?

Don't they taste like pizza?

--
Ross Howard

the Omrud

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Feb 14, 2006, 7:27:52 AM2/14/06
to
Ross Howard <ggu...@yahoo.com> had it:

> On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 14:34:32 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
> <m...@privacy.net> wrought:
>
> >Ross Howard wrote:
> >> For me it's "crispy bacon"-flavoured crisps (AmE: "freedom nachos") --
> >> the third flavour to come to the rescue and make the British staple
> >> diet the wonderfully healthy, varied thing it is today (after cheese
> >> and onion, and salt and vinegar).*

"bacon flavour" crisps are suitable for vegetarians, unencumbered as
they are by any meaty substance.

> >Aren't you forgetting about hedgehog-flavoured crisps?
>
> Don't they taste like pizza?

Only if it's a hedgehog pizza.

--
David
=====
replace usenet with the

Harvey Van Sickle

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Feb 14, 2006, 7:34:12 AM2/14/06
to
On 14 Feb 2006, the Omrud wrote

> Ross Howard <ggu...@yahoo.com> had it:
>> On Sat, 11 Feb 2006 14:34:32 +0000 (UTC), Salvatore Volatile
>> <m...@privacy.net> wrought:

>>> Aren't you forgetting about hedgehog-flavoured crisps?


>> Don't they taste like pizza?
> Only if it's a hedgehog pizza.

Reminds me of the traveller who said he'd eaten hedgehog, and was asked
what it tasted like. He said it was like a lot of other meat that one
eats all the time -- "a bit like chicken; a little bit like cat".

--
Cheers, Harvey

Ottawa/Toronto/Edmonton for 30 years;
Southern England for the past 22 years.
(for e-mail, change harvey to harvey.van)

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