in or on

[Amir]

Hi,

Would you please tell me which one is correct:
in Saturday morning or on Saturday morning?

Best.

[Jerry Friedman]

"On" is correct and "in" is not.

--
Jerry Friedman

[John Varela]

On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 22:15:53 UTC, Amir <dolatab...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Would you please tell me which one is correct:
> in Saturday morning or on Saturday morning?

Related question. The lady in my TomTom GPS navigator says things
like "take the highway and stay on the right lane". I have never
heard "stay on the lane"; in AmE we travel in, not on, lanes. Is
"on" standard BrE?

--
John Varela

[Nick Spalding]

John Varela wrote, in <51W5y0sPNk52-pn2-xy2Dpshc69oG@localhost>
on 7 Feb 2012 20:24:32 GMT:

I don't think so.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

Not AFAIK. It is strange to my BrE ear. However it does seem to be used
sometimes.

From Google
"stay in the right lane" site:.uk - About 74,700 results
"stay on the right lane" site:.uk - About 1,190 results

"get in the right lane" site:.uk - About 45,000 results
"get on the right lane" site:.uk - 1 result


--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Mike Lyle]

Amir, you may be thinking of "in the morning" and "in the evening".
Those are right; but we use "on" with the days, though I'm not sure
why. The following conversation is possible in my family:

"I'll see you on Sunday."
"When on Sunday?"
"In the morning."
"OK, so you'll be here on Monday."
"No, I said Sunday, in the morning."
"Oh, sorry. On Sunday morning, then."

--
Mike.

[Peter Moylan]

Now that you mention it, I realise that mine also says "stay on the
right lane" (when she's not busy saying "turn around when possible").
She has an Irish accent, if that's relevant.

--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.

[jgharston]

Peter Moylan wrote:
> Now that you mention it, I realise that mine also says "stay on the
> right lane" (when she's not busy saying "turn around when possible").
> She has an Irish accent, if that's relevant.

Like in the new ASDA my local Netto has changed into, they have
staff hanging around saying "use the fast lane". I look at the
other lanes and see that there's nobody on the tills there.
"No, the fast lane" they say, pointing to the self-service tills.

That's not the fast lane, those are tills at the other end of the
lanes, unservices lanes that you have to traverse to *get* *to*
the self-sevice tills. You even have to shuffle past people in
the lanes to get past them to get to the self-service tills.

JGH

[Nick Spalding]

Peter Moylan wrote, in
<WNWdnW3ck83-MqzS...@westnet.com.au>
on Wed, 08 Feb 2012 10:10:26 +1100:

>John Varela wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 22:15:53 UTC, Amir <dolatab...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Would you please tell me which one is correct:
>>> in Saturday morning or on Saturday morning?
>>
>> Related question. The lady in my TomTom GPS navigator says things
>> like "take the highway and stay on the right lane". I have never
>> heard "stay on the lane"; in AmE we travel in, not on, lanes. Is
>> "on" standard BrE?
>>
>Now that you mention it, I realise that mine also says "stay on the
>right lane" (when she's not busy saying "turn around when possible").
>She has an Irish accent, if that's relevant.

The concept of lane discipline is little known here.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Peter Moylan]

The other evening I went into a supermarket and discovered that the only
person on duty out the front was at the self-service tills. It was late
in the evening, and I was the only customer. I just stood next to one of
the normal tills until they got the message that I was not going to go
to a self-service till.

[CT]

John Varela wrote:

> Related question. The lady in my TomTom GPS navigator says things
> like "take the highway and stay on the right lane". I have never
> heard "stay on the lane"; in AmE we travel in, not on, lanes. Is
> "on" standard BrE?

Mine occasionally says "Continue to follow the road".

As opposed to...?

--
Chris

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

No. Not only do we not travel on lanes, we also don't live on streets;
we live in them.


--
athel

[Percival P. Cassidy]

On 02/08/12 06:05 am, Peter Moylan wrote:

>>> Now that you mention it, I realise that mine also says "stay on the
>>> right lane" (when she's not busy saying "turn around when possible").
>>> She has an Irish accent, if that's relevant.
>>
>> Like in the new ASDA my local Netto has changed into, they have
>> staff hanging around saying "use the fast lane". I look at the
>> other lanes and see that there's nobody on the tills there.
>> "No, the fast lane" they say, pointing to the self-service tills.
>>
>> That's not the fast lane, those are tills at the other end of the
>> lanes, unservices lanes that you have to traverse to *get* *to*
>> the self-sevice tills. You even have to shuffle past people in
>> the lanes to get past them to get to the self-service tills.
>
> The other evening I went into a supermarket and discovered that the only
> person on duty out the front was at the self-service tills. It was late
> in the evening, and I was the only customer. I just stood next to one of
> the normal tills until they got the message that I was not going to go
> to a self-service till.

One of our local "home improvement" stores had several "express
checkout" lanes but also a checkout with a human being in attendance. I
always used the latter and made a point of telling the
not-enough-to-live-on-minimum-wage employee that apart from the
stupidity of the machines ("Please put the item in the bag" -- an 8ft
piece of lumber!!), they were designed to put him/her out of a job.
After a while I found that the staffed checkout had been deactivated,
and I told the employee hovering in the vicinity that I refused to use
the machine, to which she replied, "Oh, I'll scan it for you; we've been
told that we can't use the regular cash register, but we know that many
of our customers hate the machines, so we just scan things for them."

I was greatly encouraged to hear a few months ago that one of the West
Coast supermarket chains had eliminated the DIY checkouts from all its
stores (200, I think), but many of our supermarkets and "home
improvement" stores still have them.

Perce

[Nick Spalding]

Percival P. Cassidy wrote, in <jgtvnq$nrh$1...@dont-email.me>
on Wed, 08 Feb 2012 09:10:03 -0500:

My local supermarket has six of them and I find them very convenient
it all I am there for is the morning paper. It also has self-scanning
gadgets, you pick one up on the way in, scan your purchases on the way
round and hand the gadget in to one of a couple of designated
checkouts when you are done and all you have to do is pay. Once in a
while they do a re-scan to keep us honest.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Nick Spalding]

Nick Spalding wrote, in <s125j7pl6oci7526h...@4ax.com>
on Wed, 08 Feb 2012 14:36:24 +0000:

"if" dammit

[James Silverton]

I like self-service checkouts in supermarkets since, for a small number
of purchases they are convenient, but there is one problem in that my
shopping during the week is mostly for vegetables and items like the
salad bar for which there are no bar codes. It's a pain to have to go to
the menus and find the items.

--
Jim Silverton

Extraneous "not" in Reply To.

[Horace LaBadie]

In article <jgtvnq$nrh$1...@dont-email.me>,

The self-service checkout machines will get hung-up on something more
often than not, and then a person has to come and complete the process
anyway. Having a person just standing around to take care of the
inevitable failure of self-service checkouts seems self-defeating.

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

A single employee can supervise several self-service checkouts.

[Nick Spalding]

Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote, in
<8ac5j751q4sd1lqvh...@4ax.com>
on Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:32:32 +0000:

Six of them in my local supermarket.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Mark Brader]

John Varela:

> > Related question. The lady in my TomTom GPS navigator says things
> > like "take the highway and stay on the right lane". I have never
> > heard "stay on the lane"; in AmE we travel in, not on, lanes. Is
> > "on" standard BrE?

Chris T.:

> Mine occasionally says "Continue to follow the road".
>
> As opposed to...?

Turning onto another road (or into a driveway). Note, by the way,
that the prepositions there are different.
--
Mark Brader "Metal urgy. The urge to use metals.
Toronto That was humans, all right."
m...@vex.net -- Terry Pratchett: Truckers

[tony cooper]

On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:09:43 -0500, Horace LaBadie
<hwlab...@nospam.highstream.net> wrote:

I frequently shop at Home Depot where there are 6 self-service
checkout machines in one area and one human-type available to assist.
I've never experienced a machine failure, but have frequently made
errors myself that have required the human-type to come over.

The biggest problem in checkout at Home Depot is that not all items
have bar code stickers on them. Presented with a shelf of 27
identical items, 26 of which have bar code stickers, I will invariably
choose the one without the sticker to put in my cart.

This requires that I either go back and switch items, or that a clerk
call out the Price Check troops. This takes about the same amount of
time for any checkout system.


--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

[Adam Funk]

Sure, and just like the automated looms the (often wrongly maligned)
Luddites opposed:

1. reduce payroll costs by sacking people;
2. ...
3. PROFIT!
4. the rest of us bear the social costs of increased unemployemnt.


--
By dint of plentiful try...catch constructs throughout our code base,
we are sometimes able to prevent our applications from aborting. We
think of the resultant state as "nailing the corpse in the upright
position". [Verity Stob]

[Donna Richoux]

tony cooper <tony.co...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I frequently shop at Home Depot where there are 6 self-service
> checkout machines in one area and one human-type available to assist.
> I've never experienced a machine failure, but have frequently made
> errors myself that have required the human-type to come over.
>
> The biggest problem in checkout at Home Depot is that not all items
> have bar code stickers on them. Presented with a shelf of 27
> identical items, 26 of which have bar code stickers, I will invariably
> choose the one without the sticker to put in my cart.
>
> This requires that I either go back and switch items, or that a clerk
> call out the Price Check troops. This takes about the same amount of
> time for any checkout system.

The system they are introducing here, as someone else described, uses
handheld scanners that you take around the store. Besides a bar code on
the item itself, you can scan codes on the shelf or wall or display. So
this would take care of the problem you describe.

Like others here, I boycott the system -- it seems a blatant attempt to
reduce the number of cashiers. We don't often get to vote against
automation.

--
Best -- Donna Richoux
An American living in the Netherlands

[Peter Moylan]

I put a lot of weight on Perce's point: they are designed to put people
out of jobs.

The more unemployment there is, the more taxes we have to pay. In other
words, we the public are being asked to subsidise, even if indirectly,
the big corporations.

It's bad enough that we can no longer find anyone to ask where the
gherkins have been moved to. One of these days I'm going to phone
someone in head office to say "I can't find any free-range eggs, and
there's nobody here to ask. Which aisle are they in?" One phone call
won't make much difference, but if we can get a few thousand people to
do it somebody might sit up and take notice.

[John Varela]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 01:58:39 UTC, jgharston <j...@arcade.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

I have no idea what you are saying here. I have no idea what ASDA
and Netto are. "Tills" I suspect are what I would call "toll
booths", but the rest is a puzzlement.

--
John Varela

[Peter Moylan]

Adam Funk wrote:
> On 2012-02-08, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:09:43 -0500, Horace LaBadie
>> <hwlab...@nospam.highstream.net> wrote:
>
>>> The self-service checkout machines will get hung-up on something more
>>> often than not, and then a person has to come and complete the process
>>> anyway. Having a person just standing around to take care of the
>>> inevitable failure of self-service checkouts seems self-defeating.
>> A single employee can supervise several self-service checkouts.
>
> Sure, and just like the automated looms the (often wrongly maligned)
> Luddites opposed:
>
> 1. reduce payroll costs by sacking people;
> 2. ...
> 3. PROFIT!
> 4. the rest of us bear the social costs of increased unemployemnt.
>
>

As time goes on, I find myself more and more in sympathy with Ludd.

[John Varela]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 14:10:03 UTC, "Percival P. Cassidy"
<Nob...@NotMyISP.net> wrote:

> I was greatly encouraged to hear a few months ago that one of the West
> Coast supermarket chains had eliminated the DIY checkouts from all its
> stores (200, I think), but many of our supermarkets and "home
> improvement" stores still have them.

Same here in Virginia, but I refuse to use them.

--
John Varela

[Peter Moylan]

That's because on Irish roads a single lane handles both directions.

[Peter Moylan]

The people who do supposedly "live on the street" rarely sleep in the
middle of the road.

[Skitt]

Peter Moylan wrote:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> "John Varela" said:

>>> Amir wrote:

>>>> Would you please tell me which one is correct:
>>>> in Saturday morning or on Saturday morning?
>>>
>>> Related question. The lady in my TomTom GPS navigator says things
>>> like "take the highway and stay on the right lane". I have never
>>> heard "stay on the lane"; in AmE we travel in, not on, lanes. Is
>>> "on" standard BrE?
>>
>> No. Not only do we not travel on lanes, we also don't live on streets;
>> we live in them.
>
> The people who do supposedly "live on the street" rarely sleep in the
> middle of the road.
>

Well, natch. That's why we live on the street, not in it. Living in it
would be mighty dangerous. Kids who play in the street can tell you
about that.

--
Skitt (SF Bay Area)
http://come.to/skitt

[tony cooper]

On 8 Feb 2012 22:33:22 GMT, "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net>
wrote:

Asda is a supermarket chain in the UK. A till is what they call where
the cashier checks us out. "Till" has been discussed here several
times. By association, I assume Netto is another supermarket chain.

"Netto" sounds a bit funny, but we have a supermarket chain called
Piggly Wiggly.

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <n4qdnVo8iciVZa_S...@westnet.com.au>,

Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>I put a lot of weight on Perce's point: they are designed to put people
>out of jobs.

Or just perhaps, they are designed to put people into jobs that are
more productive. Presumably you still have some
actual-making-stuff-and-doing-things jobs left in Oz.

(Also remember that many people would prefer not to deal with a
strange human, whereas they are perfectly comfortable having a
completely impersonal transaction with a machine.)

>The more unemployment there is, the more taxes we have to pay. In other
>words, we the public are being asked to subsidise, even if indirectly,
>the big corporations.

Huh? That's a non sequitur if ever I heard one. "The big
corporations" don't receive unemployment benefits, or whatever you
call them down there, it's the unemployed who get them. You're not
seriously suggesting that the cost of employing five clerks to do one
person's job isn't passed on to the consumer, are you? (The investors
surely aren't willing to take the hit.)

-GAWollman

--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[Jared]

On 2/9/2012 1:26 AM, Garrett Wollman wrote:
> In article<n4qdnVo8iciVZa_S...@westnet.com.au>,
> Peter Moylan<inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>> I put a lot of weight on Perce's point: they are designed to put people
>> out of jobs.
>
> Or just perhaps, they are designed to put people into jobs that are
> more productive. Presumably you still have some
> actual-making-stuff-and-doing-things jobs left in Oz.
>
> (Also remember that many people would prefer not to deal with a
> strange human, whereas they are perfectly comfortable having a
> completely impersonal transaction with a machine.)
>
>> The more unemployment there is, the more taxes we have to pay. In other
>> words, we the public are being asked to subsidise, even if indirectly,
>> the big corporations.
>
> Huh? That's a non sequitur if ever I heard one. "The big
> corporations" don't receive unemployment benefits, or whatever you
> call them down there, it's the unemployed who get them. You're not
> seriously suggesting that the cost of employing five clerks to do one
> person's job isn't passed on to the consumer, are you? (The investors
> surely aren't willing to take the hit.)
>
> -GAWollman
>

It's better for people to get unemployment checks than do work that
doesn't need to be done. It's better to sit on your ass than spend your
days making the world worse off.

--
Jared

[Mark Brader]

Peter Moylan:

> It's bad enough that we can no longer find anyone to ask where the
> gherkins have been moved to. One of these days I'm going to phone
> someone in head office to say "I can't find any free-range eggs, and
> there's nobody here to ask. Which aisle are they in?"

Thank you for calling MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls Pty. Ltd., who
represent a new tradition of excellence, bringing the best to people
in all walks of life. Your call is extremely important to us.
Please listen carefully, because our options have recently changed.

Merci d'avoir appelé la Société Propriétaire MacQuarrie Oxford
Wagnalls Ltée, qui représentent une nouvelle tradition d'excellence,
alliant le meilleur de les gens dans tous les domaines de
la vie. Votre appel est extr&egrave;ment important pour nous.
S'il vous plaît, écoutez attentivement, parce que nos options ont
récemment changé.

Danke für Ihren Anruf MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls proprietären
Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung, die eine neue Tradition
der Exzellenz darstellen, womit sich die besten Menschen in allen
Lebensbereichen. Ihr Anruf ist uns wichtig extrmely. Bitte höre
sorgfältig hin, weil unsere Möglichkeiten vor kurzem haben sich
geändert.

For service in English, say the word "English". Pour la serv--

I'm sorry, but I did not understand that response. Je suis désolé,
mais je ne comprenais pas cette réponse. Es tut mir leid, ich wusste
nicht verstehen, dass die Antwort. For service in English, say--

I'm sorry, but I did not understand that response.
Je suis--

I'm sorry, but I did--

Thank you for calling MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls Pty. Ltd. Your call
is extremely important to us. You will now use the keypad on your
Touch-Tone phone. For MacQuarrie Natural Resources Pty. Ltd.,
press 1. For Oxford Shoe Stores Pty. Ltd., press 2. For Wagnalls
Supermarkets Pty. Ltd., press 3. For our many ot--

Thank you for calling MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls Pty. Ltd. Your call
is extremely important to us. For a list of store locations, press 1.
For store hours, press 2. For holiday closures, press 3. For our
Super Duper Weekly specials, press 4. For details of our membership
card, press 5. To apply for a membership card, press 6. To report
a lost or stolen membership card, press 7. For more advertising,
press 8. For--

I'm sorry, 0 is not a valid selection. Your call is extremely
important to us. Please listen carefully to the available options.
For a list of store locations, press 1. For store hours, press 2.
For holiday closures, press 3. For our Super Duper Weekly specials,
press 4. For details of our membership card, press 5. To apply for
a membership card, press 6. To report a lost or stolen membership
card, press 7. For more advertising, press 8. To locate products
at a specific store, press 9.

Thank you for calling MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls Pty. Ltd. Your call
is extremely important to us. For stores in the Australian Capital
Territory, press 1. For stores in New South Wales, press 2.
For stores in the Northern Territory, press 3. For stores in
Queensland, press 4. For stores in South Australia, press 5.
For stores in Tasmania, press 6. For stores in Victoria, press 7.
For stores in Western Australia, press 8.

Thank you for calling MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls Pty. Ltd. Your call
is extremely important to us. For stores in Perth, press 1. For--

Thank you for calling MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls Pty. Ltd. Your call
is extremely important to us. For brands whose names start with A,
B, or C, press 2. For brands whose names start with D, E, or F,
press 3. For brands whose names start with G, H, or I, press 4.
For brands whose names start with J, K, or L, press 5. For brands
whose names start with M, N, or O, press 6. For brands whose names
start with P, Q, R, or S, press 7. For brands whose names start
with T, U, or V, press 8. For brands whose names start with W, X,
Y, or Z, press 9. For unbranded products such as fresh produce,
press 1. If you don't know the brand name, press the * key for a
list of all of the many brands we carry...

(Hope this helps)
--
Mark Brader | "A private business wants to make a profit, so they
Toronto | aren't going to do things to hurt their customers.
m...@vex.net | Therefore, this must have been a good thing for you...
| you owe them a thank-you note." --Alan Hamilton

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Snidely]

m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) scribbled something like ...

[muchness elided]
> (Hope this helps)

(reader pauses in awe)

/dps

[Snidely]

tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) scribbled something like ...

> Like others here, I boycott the system -- it seems a blatant attempt to
> reduce the number of cashiers. We don't often get to vote against
> automation.

You may be paying more for that cashier in grocery prices than you are for
the ex-cashier in taxes. Further investigation is needed. Don't forget to
factor in carpal tunnel syndrome and fallen arches.

/dps

[Fred]

Yes. Very helpful.

[Fred]

On 9/02/2012 12:52 a.m., Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2012-02-07 21:24:32 +0100, "John Varela" <newl...@verizon.net> said:
>
>> On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 22:15:53 UTC, Amir <dolatab...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>

>>> Would you please tell me which one is correct:
>>> in Saturday morning or on Saturday morning?
>>
>> Related question. The lady in my TomTom GPS navigator says things
>> like "take the highway and stay on the right lane". I have never
>> heard "stay on the lane"; in AmE we travel in, not on, lanes. Is
>> "on" standard BrE?
>
> No. Not only do we not travel on lanes, we also don't live on streets;
> we live in them.
>
>

Except for those who live on the street, I presume.

[John Holmes]

CT wrote:

> John Varela wrote:
>
>> Related question. The lady in my TomTom GPS navigator says things
>> like "take the highway and stay on the right lane". I have never
>> heard "stay on the lane"; in AmE we travel in, not on, lanes. Is
>> "on" standard BrE?
>

> Mine occasionally says "Continue to follow the road".
>
> As opposed to...?

As opposed to what mine often says: "Drive to the nearest road".

--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au

[R H Draney]

tony cooper filted:

>
>"Netto" sounds a bit funny, but we have a supermarket chain called
>Piggly Wiggly.

Maybe it's from familiarity, but I find Piggly Wiggly less risible than "King
Sooper"....r


--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.

[the Omrud]

On 09/02/2012 00:23, tony cooper wrote:
> On 8 Feb 2012 22:33:22 GMT, "John Varela"<newl...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 01:58:39 UTC, jgharston<j...@arcade.demon.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Peter Moylan wrote:
>>>> Now that you mention it, I realise that mine also says "stay on the
>>>> right lane" (when she's not busy saying "turn around when possible").
>>>> She has an Irish accent, if that's relevant.
>>>
>>> Like in the new ASDA my local Netto has changed into, they have
>>> staff hanging around saying "use the fast lane". I look at the
>>> other lanes and see that there's nobody on the tills there.
>>> "No, the fast lane" they say, pointing to the self-service tills.
>>>
>>> That's not the fast lane, those are tills at the other end of the
>>> lanes, unservices lanes that you have to traverse to *get* *to*
>>> the self-sevice tills. You even have to shuffle past people in
>>> the lanes to get past them to get to the self-service tills.
>>
>> I have no idea what you are saying here. I have no idea what ASDA
>> and Netto are. "Tills" I suspect are what I would call "toll
>> booths", but the rest is a puzzlement.
>
> Asda is a supermarket chain in the UK.

Owned by Wall Mart - some of the larger stores are branded "Asda Wall Mart".

> A till is what they call where the cashier checks us out.

The till is actually the cash register. The entire work station is
called "a checkout".

> "Till" has been discussed here several
> times. By association, I assume Netto is another supermarket chain.

Yes, one of the low-cost Germanic supermarkets which moved into the UK
in the 90s. We have Lidl and Aldi which are German. The Danish chain
Netto was bought by Asda last year and no longer exists as a brand here.

--
David

[Peter Moylan]

Garrett Wollman wrote:
> In article <n4qdnVo8iciVZa_S...@westnet.com.au>,
> Peter Moylan <inv...@peter.pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
>> I put a lot of weight on Perce's point: they are designed to put people
>> out of jobs.
>
> Or just perhaps, they are designed to put people into jobs that are
> more productive. Presumably you still have some
> actual-making-stuff-and-doing-things jobs left in Oz.

I have a job like that myself, but it requires postgraduate
qualifications in engineering. I know of some other productive jobs that
require no more than a trade qualification. I'm very hard-pressed to
think of any actual-making-stuff-and-doing-things jobs that an
out-of-work checkout operator would be qualified to do. Builder's
labourer, perhaps, but the average checkout chick doesn't have the
muscle to do heavy carrying. Perhaps they could be employed to stitch on
the "Made in China" labels, but I doubt it.

To judge by the ads at the back of the newspaper, even our prostitutes
are cheap Chinese imports.

Politics employs some unskilled people, but there aren't many vacancies.

The sad fact is that Australia has a shortage of skilled workers in a
variety of industries, but a huge oversupply of unskilled workers. These
are the people who are competing for the very small pool of unskilled
jobs. If they lose such a job, it's very likely they'll never find
another. There are armies of such people putting in many job
applications per week, but experience shows that eventually they'll give
up hope, and join the ranks of the lifetime unemployed.

Is it not also so in your country? My impression is that the entire
Western world is facing this problem. There's been a gradual move from
unskilled jobs to skilled jobs, but this has not been matched by an
increase of intelligence or ability in the population at large.

The supermarkets are part of this story. By controlling what goes on the
shelves, they are putting some manufacturers out of business. By
replacing locally-grown food with imports from poorer countries, they
are putting farmers, market gardeners, canneries, etc. out of business.
By sacking store staff, they are creating poverty in the areas around
their shops.

What are these "jobs that are more productive", and who is offering
them? If you are suggesting that you can take a man who has been farming
all his life, and retrain him as a rocket surgeon, I can only say that I
don't believe you.

[Adam Funk]

On 2012-02-08, James Silverton wrote:

> I like self-service checkouts in supermarkets since, for a small number
> of purchases they are convenient, but there is one problem in that my
> shopping during the week is mostly for vegetables and items like the
> salad bar for which there are no bar codes. It's a pain to have to go to
> the menus and find the items.

I have two problems with self-service check-outs (apart from the
business of gratuitously getting rid of employees).

1. They rarely work with my own bags. They have a "Using your own
bags?" button, which then invites me to put them on the scale &
push a button (to tare it), but I normally have 2 or 3 canvas tote
bags instead of old carrier bags, & the system has conniptions
accepting the weight.

2. They make too much noise. I *hate* noisy computer equipment. I
appreciate that the audio cues are useful to people with low
vision, so they should definitely be on by default, but there
should be a one-touch instant mute button for the rest of the
transaction. I've discovered that some of them have a volume
control, but IME it starts at 1/5 (which is already annoyingly loud
for me) and I have to press it 5 times, getting progressively
louder through airport (5/5) until it reaches mute (0/5).

3. They don't get fast enough staff attention for "approval needed"
items. If I'm getting a bottle of wine, I scan it first, and it
says "approval needed", and by the time I'm finished I still have
to wait for someone to come and enter an approval code before I can
start putting money in.

[Amongst my problems with self-service check-outs...]

The one thing I like about them is that I can dump all the small
change I happen to have into the intake in the hope of getting less
heavy change back.

My response to problem #1 above is to move to another one, and if
no-one sorts the problem out quickly enough, I leave all three locked
up. Eventually the manager will get the idea.

Although last month I saw some jerk in a suit with a badge on a
lanyard around his neck, presumably the store manager, standing idle
while the full-service check-outs were swamped and one person was
alternating in a rush between self-service assistance and some other
job. I was very tempted to have a go at him, along the lines of "Hey,
are you the manager? Do you actually do any work here, or do you just
like to watch the people in uniforms work while you stand there?"


--
Bob just used 'canonical' in the canonical way. [Guy Steele]

[John Varela]

On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 11:11:47 UTC, "CT" <m...@christrollen.co.uk> wrote:

> John Varela wrote:
>
> > Related question. The lady in my TomTom GPS navigator says things
> > like "take the highway and stay on the right lane". I have never
> > heard "stay on the lane"; in AmE we travel in, not on, lanes. Is
> > "on" standard BrE?
>
> Mine occasionally says "Continue to follow the road".

Same thing in the quotation I supplied: the quoted announcement is
the tag-end of instructions to take the ramp onto a limited access
highway. Once on the ramp, there is no option but to take the
highway.

--
John Varela

[John Varela]

On Thu, 9 Feb 2012 09:23:32 UTC, "John Holmes" <s...@sig.instead>
wrote:

> CT wrote:
> > John Varela wrote:
> >
> >> Related question. The lady in my TomTom GPS navigator says things
> >> like "take the highway and stay on the right lane". I have never
> >> heard "stay on the lane"; in AmE we travel in, not on, lanes. Is
> >> "on" standard BrE?
> >
> > Mine occasionally says "Continue to follow the road".
> >
> > As opposed to...?
>
> As opposed to what mine often says: "Drive to the nearest road".

That could make sense if where you are is in a parking lot or at the
end of a long private driveway.

--
John Varela

[Peter Moylan]

Or -- as often happens to me -- on a long-distance highway that's been
upgraded some time in the last ten or fifteen years. I can be happily
driving along a freeway when suddenly the screen view jumps to the
middle of a paddock, far from any road. Several km later the plotted
view will rejoin the real highway. Meanwhile, the GPS has been
frantically saying "turn around when possible".

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

tr...@euronet.nl (Donna Richoux) writes:

> The system they are introducing here, as someone else described,
> uses handheld scanners that you take around the store. Besides a bar
> code on the item itself, you can scan codes on the shelf or wall or
> display. So this would take care of the problem you describe.
>
> Like others here, I boycott the system -- it seems a blatant attempt
> to reduce the number of cashiers. We don't often get to vote against
> automation.

One of these days I'm going to have to look into whether there was a
similar reaction to stores following the lead of Clarence Saunders'
Piggly Wiggly in letting customers go through the store's stock and
pick out the things they wanted to buy instead of handing their
shopping list to a clerk who would go into the back and pick the
things they needed.

Clearly, in the aggregate, there must have been more people required
before the switch than after, since it was necessary for one to spend
more time focusing on one customer. All that was now needed was
people to stock the shelves and cashiers.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |I believe there are more instances
SF Bay Area (1982-) |of the abridgment of the freedom of
Chicago (1964-1982) |the people by gradual and silent
|encroachments of those in power
evan.kir...@gmail.com |than by violent and sudden
|usurpations.
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | James Madison

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com> writes:

> On 09/02/2012 00:23, tony cooper wrote:
>> Asda is a supermarket chain in the UK.
>
> Owned by Wall Mart - some of the larger stores are branded "Asda
> Wall Mart".

You had me wondering if there really was a "Wall Mart" in competition
with Walmart (nee "Wal-Mart"), but Wikipedia says that Asda is,
indeed, owned by the latter.

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |English grammar is not taught in
SF Bay Area (1982-) |primary or secondary schools in the
Chicago (1964-1982) |United States. Sometimes some
|mythology is taught under that
evan.kir...@gmail.com |rubric, but luckily it's usually
|ignored, except by the credulous.
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | John Lawler

[John Holmes]

This has happened to me in a few more out-of-the-way places. I can sometimes
see the road on the edge of the map a hundred metres or so from where it
really is on the ground, and following a parallel course.

What has happened, I think, is that the database compilers have taken some
roads from maps that are in a different projection, and not converted them
properly.

And there are a few places where I have found two or three different
versions of the same road. You can sometimes see this on Google maps, too.

[R H Draney]

Evan Kirshenbaum filted:

>
>One of these days I'm going to have to look into whether there was a
>similar reaction to stores following the lead of Clarence Saunders'
>Piggly Wiggly in letting customers go through the store's stock and
>pick out the things they wanted to buy instead of handing their
>shopping list to a clerk who would go into the back and pick the
>things they needed.

Best Buy seemed to find the same innovation a useful way to distinguish
themselves from the competition....r

[R H Draney]

Evan Kirshenbaum filted:

>
>the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 09/02/2012 00:23, tony cooper wrote:
>>> Asda is a supermarket chain in the UK.
>>
>> Owned by Wall Mart - some of the larger stores are branded "Asda
>> Wall Mart".
>
>You had me wondering if there really was a "Wall Mart" in competition
>with Walmart (nee "Wal-Mart"), but Wikipedia says that Asda is,
>indeed, owned by the latter.

I wondered if "Wall Mart" was somehow affiliated with Wall Drug in South
Dakota....

Around here we now have "Fresh & Easy", which is owned by the UK retailer
Tesco...I'm beginning to come to terms with their self-service checkouts after a
training period when I could neither get the tills to accept my coupons once I
scanned them nor put anything into a bag in a way that made the automation
happy....r

[the Omrud]

On 10/02/2012 06:48, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
> the Omrud<usenet...@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 09/02/2012 00:23, tony cooper wrote:
>>> Asda is a supermarket chain in the UK.
>>
>> Owned by Wall Mart - some of the larger stores are branded "Asda
>> Wall Mart".
>
> You had me wondering if there really was a "Wall Mart" in competition
> with Walmart (nee "Wal-Mart"), but Wikipedia says that Asda is,
> indeed, owned by the latter.

In deference to Tony, whom it offends, I did not brand them "Wall*Mart".
Oops. However, that is how they are branded in the UK:

http://www.mkweb.co.uk/shopping/displayarticle.asp?id=32067

--
David

[the Omrud]

Although without the second "l". Furrfu.

--
David

[Mike Lyle]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:44:01 +0000, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 09/02/2012 00:23, tony cooper wrote:
>> On 8 Feb 2012 22:33:22 GMT, "John Varela"<newl...@verizon.net>
>> wrote:

>[...]

>>>
>>> I have no idea what you are saying here. I have no idea what ASDA
>>> and Netto are. "Tills" I suspect are what I would call "toll
>>> booths", but the rest is a puzzlement.
>>
>> Asda is a supermarket chain in the UK.
>
>Owned by Wall Mart - some of the larger stores are branded "Asda Wall Mart".

It's noticeable that the various chains have distinct "feels". I won't
support Walmart anyway; but even before the takeover, I felt somehow
slightly unclean if I visited an Asda. M&S food departments feel a bit
chaotic and aimless, as though they agree with me that they shouldn't
exist at all. Waitroses feel comfortable and spacious, while Tesco
branches seem to vary according to their locality. My Melbourne cousin
thought the Carmarthen Tesco "that wonderful shop".

>
>> A till is what they call where the cashier checks us out.
>
>The till is actually the cash register. The entire work station is
>called "a checkout".
>
>> "Till" has been discussed here several
>> times. By association, I assume Netto is another supermarket chain.
>
>Yes, one of the low-cost Germanic supermarkets which moved into the UK
>in the 90s. We have Lidl and Aldi which are German. The Danish chain
>Netto was bought by Asda last year and no longer exists as a brand here.

I'm not sure that Aldi and Lidl are particularly competitive any more.

--
Mike.

[tony cooper]

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:17:57 +0000, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

That one blew by me. What did I take offense at?

In your link, the usage is "Wal-Mart". In one of the images, the sign
says "WAL*MART".

Drifting a bit...at my grandson's baseball practice, my son, another
player's father, and I were chatting. There was a comment made about
"Angry Birds" that went over my head. (I don't have a phone that has
that sort of thing) My son laughingly told the other father that I
was greeter-eligible and wouldn't understand. That I got.

[Snidely]

tony cooper <tony.co...@gmail.com> scribbled something like ...

> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:17:57 +0000, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 10/02/2012 06:48, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
>>> the Omrud<usenet...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 09/02/2012 00:23, tony cooper wrote:
>>>>> Asda is a supermarket chain in the UK.
>>>>
>>>> Owned by Wall Mart - some of the larger stores are branded "Asda
>>>> Wall Mart".
>>>
>>> You had me wondering if there really was a "Wall Mart" in
>>> competition with Walmart (nee "Wal-Mart"), but Wikipedia says that
>>> Asda is, indeed, owned by the latter.
>>
>>In deference to Tony, whom it offends, I did not brand them
>>"Wall*Mart".
>> Oops. However, that is how they are branded in the UK:
>>
>>http://www.mkweb.co.uk/shopping/displayarticle.asp?id=32067
>
> That one blew by me. What did I take offense at?
>
> In your link, the usage is "Wal-Mart". In one of the images, the sign
> says "WAL*MART".

It appears David realized that himself, and his followup is just ahead
of yours in my queue.

And, of course, it helps to remember that the "Wal" part comes from Sam
Walton's name, and not from a reference to how BigBox stores are
constructed.

/dps

[Mark Brader]

Donna Richoux:

>> Like others here, I boycott the system -- it seems a blatant attempt
>> to reduce the number of cashiers.

Evan Kirshenbaum:

> One of these days I'm going to have to look into whether there was a
> similar reaction to stores following the lead of Clarence Saunders'
> Piggly Wiggly in letting customers go through the store's stock and
> pick out the things they wanted to buy instead of handing their
> shopping list to a clerk who would go into the back and pick the
> things they needed.

Not too many years ago, I remember seeing in some newsgroup an anecdote
of buying fruit while traveling in Britain. The foreigner and the clerk
or attendant both expected to be the one who selecting which specific
orange (or whatever) the customer would buy, and each was shocked that
anyone would do it differently.
--
Mark Brader | "If communication becomes impossible, it is expected that
Toronto | both parties will... notify the other that communication
m...@vex.net | has become impossible..." --memo to university staff

[Evan Kirshenbaum]

Snidely <snide...@gmail.com> writes:

> And, of course, it helps to remember that the "Wal" part comes from
> Sam Walton's name, and not from a reference to how BigBox stores are
> constructed.

It's interesting, though, how many of these stores are named after
people with names that can be read as marketing choices, from Sol
Price starting Price Club to J.S Smart and H.D. Final buying a store
and changing the name to Smart & Final. (I never have been able to
discover where Final put the stress in his name.)

--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
Still with HP Labs |"It makes you wonder if there is
SF Bay Area (1982-) |anything to astrology after all."
Chicago (1964-1982) |
|"Oh, there is," said Susan.
evan.kir...@gmail.com |"Delusion, wishful thinking and
|gullibility."
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/

[the Omrud]

On 10/02/2012 16:12, tony cooper wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:17:57 +0000, the Omrud<usenet...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 10/02/2012 06:48, Evan Kirshenbaum wrote:
>>> the Omrud<usenet...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> On 09/02/2012 00:23, tony cooper wrote:
>>>>> Asda is a supermarket chain in the UK.
>>>>
>>>> Owned by Wall Mart - some of the larger stores are branded "Asda
>>>> Wall Mart".
>>>
>>> You had me wondering if there really was a "Wall Mart" in competition
>>> with Walmart (nee "Wal-Mart"), but Wikipedia says that Asda is,
>>> indeed, owned by the latter.
>>
>> In deference to Tony, whom it offends, I did not brand them "Wall*Mart".
>> Oops. However, that is how they are branded in the UK:
>>
>> http://www.mkweb.co.uk/shopping/displayarticle.asp?id=32067
>
> That one blew by me. What did I take offense at?

The asterisk. You've complained in the past when I've called it
"Wal*Mart". (let's forget my foray into the land of superfluous l's)

--
David

[Charles Bishop]

In article <hwlabadiejr-E78A...@nntp.aioe.org>, Horace
LaBadie <hwlab...@nospam.highstream.net> wrote:

[snip]

>
>The self-service checkout machines will get hung-up on something more
>often than not, and then a person has to come and complete the process
>anyway. Having a person just standing around to take care of the
>inevitable failure of self-service checkouts seems self-defeating.

Except that, in the stores where I see self checkouts, there are usually 4
for the one person monitoring them (Home Depot and Ralphs (grocery store
chain). This means that one person can be responsible for four times as
many registers.

I usually avoid them if I have any items that are likely to cause hiccups,
but they are convenient if I only have a few items or the items are well
marked.

--
charles

[Peter Duncanson (BrE)]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 09:44:01 +0000, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Further back in time:
till, n1.
Etymology: Origin obscure.

2. Now spec. A drawer, money-box, or similar receptacle under and
behind the counter of a shop or bank, in which cash for daily
transactions is temporarily kept.

1698 London Gaz. No. 3363/4, Lost out of Mr. Wray's Shop in
Little-Britain, a Til.
1804 M. Edgeworth Contrast ix, in Pop. Tales III. 134 James
swept some loose money off the counter into the till.
1866 A. Crump Pract. Treat. Banking i. 31 All the
money..excepting what must be kept in the ‘till’ for immediate
use.
1908 Times 22 Apr. 5/5 Officers..suspected they had
contemplated robbing the tills.

There doesn't seem to be any connection with tell, v. or teller, n. in
the counting sense.

>> "Till" has been discussed here several
>> times. By association, I assume Netto is another supermarket chain.
>
>Yes, one of the low-cost Germanic supermarkets which moved into the UK
>in the 90s. We have Lidl and Aldi which are German. The Danish chain
>Netto was bought by Asda last year and no longer exists as a brand here.

--

Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

[Charles Bishop]

In article <dno5j7lkfp3m5qads...@4ax.com>, tony cooper
<tony.co...@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]
>
>I frequently shop at Home Depot where there are 6 self-service
>checkout machines in one area and one human-type available to assist.
>I've never experienced a machine failure, but have frequently made
>errors myself that have required the human-type to come over.
>
>The biggest problem in checkout at Home Depot is that not all items
>have bar code stickers on them. Presented with a shelf of 27
>identical items, 26 of which have bar code stickers, I will invariably
>choose the one without the sticker to put in my cart.

I put it to you sir, that there are only 25 that have bar code stickers
since after you have made your selection, there is one left that I
inevitably choose when I make my choice.

I have learned to check for the codes and if there isn't one, write down
the 6 digit product code (memory won't supply the short name for
this-UPC?) in my notebook before checking out.

[snip]

--
charles

[Charles Bishop]

In article <vp4b09x...@news.ducksburg.com>, Adam Funk
<a24...@ducksburg.com> wrote:

>On 2012-02-08, Peter Duncanson (BrE) wrote:

>
>> On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:09:43 -0500, Horace LaBadie
>><hwlab...@nospam.highstream.net> wrote:
>
>>>The self-service checkout machines will get hung-up on something more
>>>often than not, and then a person has to come and complete the process
>>>anyway. Having a person just standing around to take care of the
>>>inevitable failure of self-service checkouts seems self-defeating.
>>

>> A single employee can supervise several self-service checkouts.
>
>Sure, and just like the automated looms the (often wrongly maligned)
>Luddites opposed:
>
>1. reduce payroll costs by sacking people;
>2. ...
>3. PROFIT!
>4. the rest of us bear the social costs of increased unemployemnt.

But benefit from the lower prices on the goods we buy. Lower may only be
in reference to the higher prices that would result if they kept the
additional workers.

--
charles

[Charles Bishop]

In article <1kf63g0.prwyqh15sux0xN%tr...@euronet.nl>, tr...@euronet.nl
(Donna Richoux) wrote:

>tony cooper <tony.co...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I frequently shop at Home Depot where there are 6 self-service
>> checkout machines in one area and one human-type available to assist.
>> I've never experienced a machine failure, but have frequently made
>> errors myself that have required the human-type to come over.
>>
>> The biggest problem in checkout at Home Depot is that not all items
>> have bar code stickers on them. Presented with a shelf of 27
>> identical items, 26 of which have bar code stickers, I will invariably
>> choose the one without the sticker to put in my cart.
>>

>> This requires that I either go back and switch items, or that a clerk
>> call out the Price Check troops. This takes about the same amount of
>> time for any checkout system.

>
>The system they are introducing here, as someone else described, uses
>handheld scanners that you take around the store. Besides a bar code on
>the item itself, you can scan codes on the shelf or wall or display. So
>this would take care of the problem you describe.
>

>Like others here, I boycott the system -- it seems a blatant attempt to

>reduce the number of cashiers. We don't often get to vote against
>automation.

But you can always vote for fuller employment. You do have a "knives and
boots boy" don't you?

--
charles

[Charles Bishop]

In article <A6edndjmP63x9q7S...@vex.net>, m...@vex.net (Mark
Brader) wrote:

>Peter Moylan:
>> It's bad enough that we can no longer find anyone to ask where the
>> gherkins have been moved to. One of these days I'm going to phone
>> someone in head office to say "I can't find any free-range eggs, and
>> there's nobody here to ask. Which aisle are they in?"
>
>Thank you for calling MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls Pty. Ltd., who
>represent a new tradition of excellence, bringing the best to people
>in all walks of life. Your call is extremely important to us.
>Please listen carefully, because our options have recently changed.

[snip pure, unadulterated genius]

Along with the options change there is also the "we are experiencing an
unexpected heavy call volume" which I get almost any time I call, so that
at some point, surely it is expected.

I think I need to keep a survey record to see if it is true.

--
charles

[Charles Bishop]

In article <XfqdnSl2y-iJPKjS...@vex.net>, m...@vex.net (Mark

Brader) wrote:

>Donna Richoux:
>>> Like others here, I boycott the system -- it seems a blatant attempt
>>> to reduce the number of cashiers.
>
>Evan Kirshenbaum:
>> One of these days I'm going to have to look into whether there was a
>> similar reaction to stores following the lead of Clarence Saunders'
>> Piggly Wiggly in letting customers go through the store's stock and
>> pick out the things they wanted to buy instead of handing their
>> shopping list to a clerk who would go into the back and pick the
>> things they needed.
>
>Not too many years ago, I remember seeing in some newsgroup an anecdote
>of buying fruit while traveling in Britain. The foreigner and the clerk
>or attendant both expected to be the one who selecting which specific
>orange (or whatever) the customer would buy, and each was shocked that
>anyone would do it differently.

In the Phillipines you would take your purchase to one person, who would
write the costs on a slip of paper (you left the items). You took this
paper to another person who would calculate the amount due. You took this
number back to a third person who would take payment and give you a chit.
You took the chit to back to person #1 who gave you your items.

--
charles

[Adam Funk]

On 2012-02-11, Charles Bishop wrote:

>>Sure, and just like the automated looms the (often wrongly maligned)
>>Luddites opposed:
>>
>>1. reduce payroll costs by sacking people;
>>2. ...
>>3. PROFIT!
>>4. the rest of us bear the social costs of increased unemployemnt.
>
> But benefit from the lower prices on the goods we buy. Lower may only be
> in reference to the higher prices that would result if they kept the
> additional workers.

Sure, that's the official story & they're sticking to it.


--
When you look at a photograph of the earth you don't see any
borders. That realization is where our hope as a planet lies.
[Graham Nash]

[Mike Lyle]

On Thu, 09 Feb 2012 00:45:00 -0600, m...@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>Peter Moylan:
>> It's bad enough that we can no longer find anyone to ask where the
>> gherkins have been moved to. One of these days I'm going to phone
>> someone in head office to say "I can't find any free-range eggs, and
>> there's nobody here to ask. Which aisle are they in?"
>
>Thank you for calling MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls Pty. Ltd., who
>represent a new tradition of excellence, bringing the best to people
>in all walks of life. Your call is extremely important to us.
>Please listen carefully, because our options have recently changed.
>

>Merci d'avoir appelé la Société Propriétaire MacQuarrie Oxford
>Wagnalls Ltée, qui représentent une nouvelle tradition d'excellence,
>alliant le meilleur de les gens dans tous les domaines de
>la vie. Votre appel est extr&egrave;ment important pour nous.
>S'il vous plaît, écoutez attentivement, parce que nos options ont
>récemment changé.
>
>Danke für Ihren Anruf MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls proprietären
>Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung, die eine neue Tradition
>der Exzellenz darstellen, womit sich die besten Menschen in allen
>Lebensbereichen. Ihr Anruf ist uns wichtig extrmely. Bitte höre
>sorgfältig hin, weil unsere Möglichkeiten vor kurzem haben sich
>geändert.
>
>For service in English, say the word "English". Pour la serv--
>
>I'm sorry, but I did not understand that response. Je suis désolé,
>mais je ne comprenais pas cette réponse. Es tut mir leid, ich wusste
>nicht verstehen, dass die Antwort. For service in English, say--
>
>I'm sorry, but I did not understand that response.
>Je suis--
>
>I'm sorry, but I did--
>
>Thank you for calling MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls Pty. Ltd. Your call
>is extremely important to us. You will now use the keypad on your
>Touch-Tone phone. For MacQuarrie Natural Resources Pty. Ltd.,
>press 1. For Oxford Shoe Stores Pty. Ltd., press 2. For Wagnalls
>Supermarkets Pty. Ltd., press 3. For our many ot--
>
>Thank you for calling MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls Pty. Ltd. Your call
>is extremely important to us. For a list of store locations, press 1.
>For store hours, press 2. For holiday closures, press 3. For our
>Super Duper Weekly specials, press 4. For details of our membership
>card, press 5. To apply for a membership card, press 6. To report
>a lost or stolen membership card, press 7. For more advertising,
>press 8. For--
>
>I'm sorry, 0 is not a valid selection. Your call is extremely
>important to us. Please listen carefully to the available options.
>For a list of store locations, press 1. For store hours, press 2.
>For holiday closures, press 3. For our Super Duper Weekly specials,
>press 4. For details of our membership card, press 5. To apply for
>a membership card, press 6. To report a lost or stolen membership
>card, press 7. For more advertising, press 8. To locate products
>at a specific store, press 9.
>
>Thank you for calling MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls Pty. Ltd. Your call
>is extremely important to us. For stores in the Australian Capital
>Territory, press 1. For stores in New South Wales, press 2.
>For stores in the Northern Territory, press 3. For stores in
>Queensland, press 4. For stores in South Australia, press 5.
>For stores in Tasmania, press 6. For stores in Victoria, press 7.
>For stores in Western Australia, press 8.
>
>Thank you for calling MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls Pty. Ltd. Your call
>is extremely important to us. For stores in Perth, press 1. For--
>
>Thank you for calling MacQuarrie Oxford Wagnalls Pty. Ltd. Your call
>is extremely important to us. For brands whose names start with A,
>B, or C, press 2. For brands whose names start with D, E, or F,
>press 3. For brands whose names start with G, H, or I, press 4.
>For brands whose names start with J, K, or L, press 5. For brands
>whose names start with M, N, or O, press 6. For brands whose names
>start with P, Q, R, or S, press 7. For brands whose names start
>with T, U, or V, press 8. For brands whose names start with W, X,
>Y, or Z, press 9. For unbranded products such as fresh produce,
>press 1. If you don't know the brand name, press the * key for a
>list of all of the many brands we carry...
>
>(Hope this helps)

<Standing ovation, with oak leaves>
--
Mike.

[the Omrud]

On 10/02/2012 12:40, Mike Lyle wrote:

> I'm not sure that Aldi and Lidl are particularly competitive any more.

I have a slight addiction to buying their reasonably-priced hand tools.

--
David

[R H Draney]

Charles Bishop filted:

How about "all of our representatives are currently assisting other
customers"?...I'm not sure whether to add "or playing Angry Birds on the company
clock" or to wonder if "all of our representatives" can have a cardinality of
one or even zero....r

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <ctbishop-110...@global-66-81-248-97.dialup.o1.com>,

Charles Bishop <ctbi...@earthlink.net> wrote:

>I have learned to check for the codes and if there isn't one, write down
>the 6 digit product code (memory won't supply the short name for
>this-UPC?) in my notebook before checking out.

If it's only six digits, it's probably a PLU and not a UPC. UPCs can
be six digits (depending on whether you count the initial and check
digits), but only for small items made by high-volume manufacturers
(the number of UPC vendor codes that can be compressed to form a short
UPC is limited -- the vendor part of the regular twelve-digit code
must end in multiple zeroes).[1] There is a standardized set of four-
and five-digit PLU codes for produce, but most other sorts of items
that don't have a UPC use seller-applied codes for automation.

If it's twelve digits, it's probably a UPC. If it's thirteen digits,
it's probably an EAN. If it's sixteen digits (IIRC), it's a GTIN.
The first two are intended for retail use; the last is for
identification of larger packaging units like cartons and display
cases.[2] The last three digits of the GTIN identify a packaging
level and the size of the package at that level (it's not possible to
determine how many individual sale units are included in the package,
because different manufacturers use different packaging levels).

The first digit of an EAN or GTIN identifies the format; the
thirteenth digit is a check digit. EANs can be followed by an
additional five digits (without a check digit) which identifies the
suggested retail price and currency.[3] EANs beginning with 0 are
embedded UPCs; other initial digits identify a numbering authority
responsible for assigning however many digits remain. (These form a
prefix code, so that one authority's identifier is never a prefix of a
different authority's code.) UPCs and EANs also embed other numbering
systems -- ISBNs and ISSNs are perhaps the best-known, but there are
others including National Drug Codes and a large swath of "private
use" and "random weight" codes that allow retailers to automate their
own PLU systems for items which they package in-store like meat, deli,
fish, and bakery items.

-GAWollman

[1] There's also a short EAN, for which the codes are simply assigned
per product by the EAN authorities.

[2] Glossary: PLU = "Price Look-Up" or "Programmed Look-Up", assigned
by a retailer, retailers' association, or cooperative. UPC =
"Universal Product Code", formerly assigned by the Uniform Code
Council (now EAN International), used primarily in North America. EAN
officially does not stand for "European Article Number". GTIN =
"Global Trade Identification Number".

[3] USD is currency number 5, and unspecified is 0, but I don't know
what the others are. I assume CAD, AUD, GBP, and EUR are all
represented.
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
wol...@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993

[Katy Jennison]

And Lidl's electric espresso machine is superb. That is, to avoid
confusion, not one that dispenses coffee in the store (they don't have
those, at least not in our local Lidl) but the one we bought there and
use at home.

--
Katy Jennison

[Nick Spalding]

the Omrud wrote, in <JdCZq.30702$yg4....@newsfe14.ams2>
on Sat, 11 Feb 2012 22:46:43 +0000:

>On 10/02/2012 12:40, Mike Lyle wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure that Aldi and Lidl are particularly competitive any more.
>
>I have a slight addiction to buying their reasonably-priced hand tools.

Whether I need them or not, in some cases.
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE

[Mark Brader]

Garrett Wollman:

> If it's twelve digits, it's probably a UPC. If it's thirteen digits,
> it's probably an EAN.

Note that ISBNs are now also EANs, which is why in the newer format
they no longer have the base-11 checksum that allowed them to end in X.

> The first digit of an EAN or GTIN identifies the format; the
> thirteenth digit is a check digit. EANs can be followed by an
> additional five digits (without a check digit) which identifies the
> suggested retail price and currency.[3]

...

> [3] USD is currency number 5, and unspecified is 0, but I don't know
> what the others are. I assume CAD, AUD, GBP, and EUR are all
> represented.

That's weird enough, but I'm more interested in how they represent a
price in only 4 digits. ["This is a job for... floating-point!"? :-)]
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Close your tag and give it a rest, Jason"
m...@vex.net | --FoxTrot (Bill Amend)

[Mark Brader]

Evan Kirshenbaum:

> You had me wondering if there really was a "Wall Mart" in competition

> with Walmart (nee "Wal-Mart")...
^
Sam Walton's daughter corporation, was it? :-)
--
Mark Brader | "No, I'm disagreeing with you. That doesn't mean I'm not
m...@vex.net | listening to you or understanding what you're saying:
Toronto | I'm doing all three at the same time." -- Aaron Sorkin

[Mark Brader]

Evan Kirshenbaum:

> It's interesting, though, how many of these stores are named after
> people with names that can be read as marketing choices, from Sol
> Price starting Price Club to J.S Smart and H.D. Final buying a store
> and changing the name to Smart & Final.

In this vein, let us also remember James Cash Penney.
--
Mark Brader "Actually, $150, to an educational institution,
Toronto turns out to be about the same as a lower amount."
m...@vex.net -- Mark Horton

[Garrett Wollman]

In article <v6ednWlfF_IpdarS...@vex.net>,

Mark Brader <m...@vex.net> wrote:
>> [3] USD is currency number 5, and unspecified is 0, but I don't know
>> what the others are. I assume CAD, AUD, GBP, and EUR are all
>> represented.
>
>That's weird enough, but I'm more interested in how they represent a
>price in only 4 digits. ["This is a job for... floating-point!"? :-)]

For USD, the cover price is in cents. It's usually only trade books
that have the extension, and trade books rarely cost more than $99.99.

(And I got that wrong: it's 9 that indicates "unspecified", not 0.)

In pre-EAN days, mass-market paperbacks used a different system: the
first six digits of the UPC would encode the publisher or distributor,
the next five digits encode the price, and after the check digit an
optional five-digit extension block would indicate the publisher's
catalog number (the third group of the ISBN for publishers with
three-digit publisher prefixes). Transitional mass-market paperbacks
would have the EAN with price extension on the back and the UPC on the
inside front cover. (For serials, there's a similar extension that
identifies a specific issue.) Book-club editions are issued today
under the same ISBN as the original publisher's edition (which I think
is actually wrong by the ISBN specification, as they are usually a
different form factor), but all indications of price are removed from
the cover. (This is handy for book dealers to distinguish BCEs from
the real thing without getting out a ruler.)

-GAWollman

[Mike Lyle]

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 10:45:35 +0000, Nick Spalding <spal...@iol.ie>
wrote:

Yes, why does one _do_ that?

Aldi once had some decent-looking digging tools WITH LONG HANDLES.
Spade and four candles are always too short. Some professionals have
longer handles made, and it makes their lives a lot easier. Sad to
say, my present garden is too small to justify replacing my tools.

--
Mike.

[Mark Brader]

Garrett Wollman:
>>> [3] USD is currency number 5, and unspecified is [9], but I don't know

>>> what the others are. I assume CAD, AUD, GBP, and EUR are all
>>> represented.

Mark Brader:

>> That's weird enough, but I'm more interested in how they represent a
>> price in only 4 digits. ["This is a job for... floating-point!"? :-)]

Garrett Wollman:

> For USD, the cover price is in cents. It's usually only trade books
> that have the extension, and trade books rarely cost more than $99.99.

Oh. In the previous posting, you did not mention books at all in this
connection.
--
Mark Brader | "You guys have your own pagan religion...
Toronto | Instead of sacrificing sheep, you sacrifice sleep."
m...@vex.net | -- John Cramer

[R H Draney]

Mike Lyle filted:

>
>Aldi once had some decent-looking digging tools WITH LONG HANDLES.
>Spade and four candles are always too short. Some professionals have
>longer handles made, and it makes their lives a lot easier. Sad to
>say, my present garden is too small to justify replacing my tools.

Someone needs to do that for bathroom plungers....r

[John Holmes]

You need to have enough tools to be able to build the extension to the
garage or shed to keep them all in.

--
Regards
John
for mail: my initials plus a u e
at tpg dot com dot au